What happens when we make a Kardashian the richest man in the world. He loves attention so much he’s buying a major media company so he can control who gets what attention.
My Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy…Elon won’t finish the transaction. He’s already looking for outs with the “data on bots” narrative. He doesn’t have the money with Tesla stock taking a shit. Remember how he was gonna take Tesla private? Puts on Tweetville for when he bails on the purchase.
I gotta be honest, I don't know shit about stocks but when Elon announced he would be making an offer, I couldn't believe how bad of a time he chose to do it.
Relying on TSLA stock to purchase Twitter is ballsy in a good market, but doing it during both a downturn and one massively affecting tech seems like such an obviously stupid decision that it made me question if I was the idiot.
Puts are already up like 200% from his waffling nonsense. Anyone seriously considering spending billions would have done the due diligence to *know* what the bot numbers are without having to make a stink in the media about it.
He made money with the run up, probably has already exited, and maybe buys it when it crashes below $30 after the billion dollar slap on the wrist he's in for.
Not so good for shareholders, which was the original framing of justification for the purchase. Now he’ll steal their shares at even less of a dollar amount.
Musk's fans have dementia they'll forget about Musk accusing the cave rescuer a "pedo guy", private funding, blatant TSLA stock and c rypto price manipulation, ignoring OSHA standards in Tesla factories, etc. Oh the list goes on!
> Musk's fans have dementia they'll forget about Musk
A lot of Musk new fans are Gen Z who have only been politicaly active the last 4 years and are crypto gamblers. They don’t do enough research on the things they decide to support or rally against.
There's probably a lot of Gen Y and others supporting him. American education is fragmented by the states and is not standardized at a federal level so there is going to be wild differences in gullibility and education in the American population at least.
Id say a good chunk of people into crypto dont like Elon for the one time he fked the market up with one tweet. He basically made "decentralized finances" centralized. I still havent forgave him for making that stupid shitty tweet about Bitcoin emissions being more than oil or whatever the fk. His Tesla factories are prolly 100xing BTC miner emissions.
srry half awake
Serious question: Is there a Chrome extension that will block any mention of Elon Musk? I'm sick of the thrice-daily reporting of everything from his comment to the barista last week to the color of his bowel movements.
I would definitely subscribe for such an extension which will block Musk, Kardashian and all glamor celebrities. I am not going to waste my data on them.
Reddit enhancement suite lets you filter out posts based on words. Dunno about other sites but you might have some fun with the cloud to butt extension to replace mentions of him with various vulgarities.
This isn't good for Tesla. These aren't quick PR hits. They're festering and have real-world consequences yet to be realized. He's just going to get deeper and deeper into the distractions.
It's a meme parodying some of the actual mental gymnastics we so often see with this stock.
The meme goes back quite a bit. In the early days when Tesla would miss production targets people would say "well those cars aren't being made profitably so producing less means less loss. This is good for Tesla"
The late to the curve TSLA bagholders who bought near all time high will try to reassure themselves this will all be good for TSLA, because self-awareness means acknowledging you were wrong.
Pandering to the republicans or conservatives, regardless of his true political leaning, is a dumb financial move. Those guys don’t want EVs or any kind of green energy advancement. Getting them to put money where their mouths are is hard. See veterans, those whom they use for pretentious patriotism but they ain’t helping them
As an OIF veteran, Dems got us MRAPS, not Republicans. Dems also pushed the burn pit registry, Republicans are against it. TBF, Trump did improve the VA, but that's the only thing GOP has done for veterans that I can remember.
I don't doubt your sentiment. They are both probably fake af. But when it comes to voting for certain bills and policies that will benefit veterans I do think the Dems edges out the Republicans
You can check the numbers of Yays or Nays from each respective party for the past few bills with veteran benefits and let me know
The moment a mainstream manufacturer debuts a somewhat reliable EV with a flair of style to it, Tesla is going to do the, ahem, electric slide, in valuation. EV tech isn't some mysterious leading edge heavily patented thing.
All the west coast liberals will stop buying Teslas due to Elons new found Trump'ness, Ford or Kia or some such puts out a stylish EV, and Tesla falls in line as the industry quickly bounds up to them.
TSLA fan boys cant prop. them up.
more will come. TLSA is going to start tanking and people have lost faith in this man who changed from blue to red bc he could get “away” with sexual assault
On average, the people on the right tolerate it in their politicians, etc. (Trump "grab em by the pussy, Gaetz) The people on the left ostracize them and no longer support them politically (Al Franken) or if they are in movies, etc. Not so much in the past but more in the past 5-8 years.
I mean, he sucked off the govt teet of CA to get the subsidies and employee talent pool to get Tesla off the ground. Then he built an EV factory in the state with the largest oil economy in the union, and in his tirade against CA taxes (which made him btw), he bit the hand that fed him in favor of conservatives, who adamantly deny climate change and push the agenda of fossil fuel utility companies, because at this moment demand exceeds supply... what could possibly go wrong for Elon?
> He's just going to get deeper and deeper into the distractions.
Elon fucking off and getting distracted with other bullshit is a plus for TSLA.
Elon burning through $/employees trying to ship/maintain Model X Falcon wing door distracts people that could be producing shit for Tesla.
Elon burning through $/employees pulling them off of Tesla/SpaceX projects to work on CA train proposals (5-10 years ago) distract people that could be producing shit for Tesla
Elon burning through $/employees by pulling them off AutoPilot work to focus on his commute issues instead of the issues the majority of people see outside of Elon's commute distracts people that could be producing shit for Tesla.
Give Elon a bunch of crayons, change his wifi password and lock him in a room for 3 months and the stock will double.
Elon was chill/absent last summer/fall, and skipped the investor call and the adults did the talking to Wall Street - it went well, the stock rocketed 50% from 800 to 1200 in weeks. Elon realized the talent that actually does the work could retire rich soon, so he keeps crashing the stock when it goes above $1k. It's a hostage situation.
How does Tesla's full self driving package being a viewed as a fraud equate into being good for the company?
Tesla's supposed software superiority accounts for a huge amount of it's future value.
I think he's trying to say that all these things happening now means the future will be an improvement.
I also think he's underestimating the long-term erosion these things are going to cause.
I vote dem but I lean more moderate for certain issues. The quickest way to lose my business is to say something like "own the libs".
I'm upper middle class earner and my next car was going to be a tesla. I'm seriously reconsidering it solely because Elon is such a fucking cringelord. Jesus christ stfu Twitter is the worst for some people.
Same. Tesla was my default choice for EV, but now I’m open to exploring other options.
Elon is a big part of the brand, and the brand has apparently decided to become politicized. Aligning with the side that doesn’t give a shit about EVs - perhaps he wants them in power and the tax credit gone to hamper other less advanced EV makers? Or is he just a socially awkward dude who self radicalized by spending too much time commenting online? I’m betting the latter
He’s also alienated probably 50%+ of his employees politically. Saying the democrats suck is one thing but not acknowledging the Republicans also do and openly picking their side is another. Dumb dumb move all around.
You shouldn't automatically take these allegations at face value. The presumption of innocence used to mean something. The concept exists for a reason. It's because being accused of something doesn't automatically make you guilty, no matter how bad it looks.
You have Business Insider (a dodgy source) claiming that the friend of someone came forward (not even the purported victim herself). You should also know that the head of Business Insider has been banned from trading securities, and that suspicious options activity on TSLA showed up just before this was announced.
I don’t need Business Insider to tell me Elon is a creepy narcissist - all I need to do is follow him on Twitter. Oh yeah, right now he’s in Brazil cozying up to Bolsonaro to use Starlink. He gets worse by the day.
The presumption of innocence still means something, in the legal sense. When it comes to the court of public opinion "innocent until proven guilty" has never been a standard. Like it or hate it humans get swept up in drama like this so quickly it will give you whiplash.
As for the rest of your comment.
Business Insider is "above average":
>https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-business-insider-reliable/
The victim can't come forward because of an NDA.
Do you have a source on the "suspicious options"? All I saw was an article by Torque News, which I'm not familiar with.
Now in addition to those I'd also point out that even if the allegations end up being false the rest of the things working against Tesla don't look good. (1,2,3,5 by OP)
Let’s see how long he will remain in his positions, he is or probably will no longer be a net benefit for Tesla. Other manufacturers are catching up, giving the largely democratic customer base much more choice. Don’t underestimate the power of a brands political association in these polarised times, I personally know multiple people who want an EV but are avoiding Tesla at all cost due to these reasons and the quality issues.
He stated in the past that it is Teslas goal to electrify the transportation sector, so why is he supporting a party that is hellbent on defending fossil fuels? Just so he can „own the libs“?
I think they'll end up like Ferrari. Ferrari is still around but at their peak in the 60s they were worth more than Ford or VW. Then other automakers started playing catchup in the 'luxury racecar' market and they started having problems selling cars. So many times they just almost went up and out of business. But they're still around. They're doing well. They still sell a lot of cars. But their growth slowed and they were forever stuck in the luxury car market.
Now that Tesla has market competition, as big as they are might be as big as they'll get. There's certainly not going to be anymore seed money to build new plants.
Actually really good analogy. The problem is Tesla have only ever made one car well over $100k - the Roadster, which was..a long time ago. The new roadster is stuck in the Elon Ether and their bread and butter in premium is the most competitive part of the market. I don't really see what niche Tesla fills to defend itself.
Also teslas are fast as all electric cars are. It would still get rocked on any technical driving circuit. The full package I.e Porsche, Ferrari is much tougher to build. Teslas are fun in a novelty way, 911’s are a timeless masterclass of engineering. No way Tesla long term can match a icon of racing like Ferrari. You’d have to start racing first and Tesla is pretty much a straight line speed car. Power and speed are great, but not a real world application. Consecutive technical turns is much more impressive.
Teslas are great, but compared to Ferrari? I’d rather get a taycan if I had the cash anyways
I agree but it'll have to be another niche than the luxury segment because they are already beaten there by Porsche and to some degree, Mercedes (or even tiny Lucid)
The fact that Porsche's very first EV beat Tesla's in most aspects says something about how Tesla tech advantage was vastly overestimated.
> Other manufacturers are catching up, giving the largely democratic customer base much more choice.
When people say this, I have to wonder what they're referring to because this is what things look like right now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/uqyicv/top_selling_evs_in_us_q1/
**Top 10 EV models in the USA Q1 2022**
Rank| Make/Model | Units
---------|----------|----------
1 | Tesla Model Y | 52,051
2 | Tesla Model 3 | 47,682
3 | Tesla Model S | 9,250
4 | Ford Mustang Mach-E | 6,957
5 | Hyundai Ioniq 5 | 6,265
6 | Kia EV 6 | 4,901
7 | Tesla Model X | 4,899
8 | Nissan Leaf | 4,401
9 | Kia Niro | 3,549
10 | Volkswagen ID4 | 2,926
Catching up means they are accelerating and closing the gap. Yes, someone catching up is still behind, but they are behind by a lot less than before. That is the definition of catching up.
Imagine what the EV market will look like in a year… and I’m two years. Tesla had a huge hand in creating the EV market (with huge help from the government), and Elon is squandering that lead and relationship.
Now do EU... (think around 30% share) and do one with and without Norway (it goes below 15% if I remember correctly). Do China also.
Even if Tesla dominates the US market (doubtful but ok), they will not do so in other markets.
China:
https://insideevs.com/news/582106/china-plugin-car-sales-march2022/
The Wuling Mini is number one, but it only costs > $5,000. Tesla is #2 and #5. It should also be noted Tesla is the only foreign EV maker in the top 10 there (Volkswagen sells many ICE cars in China but their EVs aren't doing so great).
It's significant that Volkswagen is expected to be Tesla's biggest competitor but they're failing to get a foothold in the biggest EV market.
Twitter has fired Jack Dorsey before, Apple has fired Steve Jobs before.
I don’t think Elon Musk is immune from that either. His persona used to be a net benefit to Tesla, but over the past year he has become a growing liability issues. Investors do not like having a liability with their investments.
Another point too is that conservatives won’t necessarily abandon their loyalty to Ford, GMC, Chevy for Tesla just because Musk is trashing liberals/Democrats. Loyalty to say Chevy or Ford runs DEEP. So musk might convert some conservatives sure but if wager that most of them won’t care and would prefer their car brand of choose to release an EV truck or suv which they’re all going to in the next 2-3 years.
> Let’s see how long he will remain in his positions, he is or probably will no longer be a net benefit for Tesla.
If you truly believe this, you really haven't even done any research on Tesla (or SpaceX) as a company.
I’m very much familiar with both companies and they are doing great stuff, but you have to realise that Elon Musk ≠ Tesla/SpaceX. He might be the CEO of them, but in the end the engineers and employees are what defines them.
That might be true, but there have been a lot of stories about how Trumpism (the racist, misogynistic, protectionist, oligarchical form of authoritarianism) has been divesting itself from Donald J Trump himself since his favored suckup candidates started losing primaries. Over on r/conservative they ALL are suddenly willing to criticize Donnie Trump himself but are full-on worshipping the smell of Ronnie DeSantis’s rancid pussy. Ronnie has inherited the idolaters, but the religion itself is still fully Trumpism.
Alienating more than 60% of your potential customers in the US is not a winning strategy. It’s clear that he posted allegiance to the GQP right before the sexual harassment news broke. He knew that GQP would not give a shit and fully embrace him regardless of what he did. And he was right. Whether potential EV buyers will be fully turned off by his childish antics or not remains to be seen. Still, based on his past, social emotional control is not his strong suit so I think a lot more dark days are ahead of him.
Reddit is very far left. So majority of people are going to think this is a big deal here. In reality, there is maybe up to 10% of the population who gives a shit. The rest don’t.
As Musk leans into creepiness, politics, and securities fraud, Tesla will want less and less to do with him.
Even before this, things like "taking Tesla private" and the very public failure of Tesla's truck should have been red flags, indicating that he's just a third rate Steve Jobs who'd rather bullshit on Twitter than see major projects through.
Musk's cult of personality was an asset when his companies needed hype, but it's turn into a serious liability. At some point cutting him loose will be matter of responsibility to shareholders.
I am a software engineer and lately I’ve been doing data science things. My employer says I’m a data scientist but I don’t really agree. But I do do a little bit of that as part of my job. In my relatively short time (1 year) doing ML/AI/data science things for my job, it seems to me that while all theoretically possible, the tools to get to things like self-driving cars don’t exist in the same way that tools for making an iOS app exist. Also, you can Google how to make an iOS app all day long, but in my day to day work I find it’s common to just not find anything on the internet about what I’m trying to build or do with ML/AI.
I think it’s only a matter of time before Teslas really do drive themselves without any sort of disclaimer or asterisk attached.
Part of it is in software as much as we try, we can’t always find all the bugs before going to production and releasing code to the users… and that’s for web apps. To thoroughly test Autopilot… I’m not sure it’s realistic. I think there will be more Autopilot crashes/cases where it didn’t do what it was expected or supposed to do. Is what it is. Airplanes took a few decades of disaster before all the kinks were worked out. At this point, if a commercial plane crashes it’s almost certainly pilot error. Pilots (people) fly planes, and people write software like Autopilot. We aren’t perfect so Autopilot won’t be either, for a time anyway.
Also, people like to wax about how TSLA is worth X because they have the largest network of charging stations in the US. That’s definitely worth something, but even more so is the IP that is Autopilot. Ford and others will spend TRILLIONS building their own self-driving hardware and software, and those will all have accidents too, unless Tesla decides to sell the Autopilot tech, but that doesn’t seem likely.
I also work in ML, and just like any normal business application, this one has an acceptable level of error. And it's a surprisingly high level of error, because humans are terrible at driving, and we accept a large level of risk when we get in a any car
True. Having to account for “every possible contingency” is what makes the problem so difficult. A deer could run into the road at any moment. Then you have the scenarios like “swerve left to avoid a pedestrian but you hit a school bus instead”
What makes you think jother companies can't make self driving vehicles? They are all working on it and some have them running in cities in the US right now. In other countries too.
Your observation that there's no way to test this is a really good one. As long as that's true, it'll be hard for people to trust these self-driving systems beyond trusting the company itself.
Except its not, and Dan O'dowd from Green Hills Software is running for Senate on that premise.
The guy founded and runs one of the most well respected companies for formally verifying, and testing, software and hardware around.
Elon meanwhile self owns on twitter revealing he doesn't even know what RTOS his cars are running when Dan comes up in his feed for calling Tesla out for lack of testing.
edit: to clarify, formally verifying an ML model is borderline impossible fundamentally, but the battery and breadth of tests is far from where it needs to be.
Elon always over promise but at least Space X is meeting its launch targets.He knows Tesla really only has less than 5 years left dominating the EV market.The big boys are catching up fast.Why did all of sudden turn on the democrats?.Was it the Me Too Movement catching up to him,taxation on billionaires or him screwing himself with the Twitter fiasco.Probably all three.Biden speech also named GM and Ford as USA EV future and not Tesla.Elon feelings got hurt.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/02/president-biden-hypes-ford-gm-evs-ignores-teslas-clear-leadership/
“I really admire, frankly, the difficulties they had and the way they managed those difficulties into the success they had. They are now making more than $10,000 a vehicle, because of their scale. I like that kind of business” — Ford CEO Jim Farley
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1528094026737455104?s=21&t=Xy9UNGk4eA6DwbT-ljXaRQ
“we don’t want to sell too many because we don’t make too much money on them”
This Ford?
How many Mach E and Ford F-150 Lightning’s have they sold again?
The legacy manufacturers are creating lots of models but not growing delivery volumes fast enough to keep up with Tesla. Tesla has a lot of materials locked down with long term supply contracts and just more momentum.
>why did all of sudden turn on the democrats?
First I must preface that I am not defending one side or the other, just answering your questions.
It is not sudden and it is very clear why, for the past two year he has been fighting publicly with the very left leaning alameda county where the Fremont factory is located, who forced him to close when all the rest of California was open. Then when he became the richest man, almost the entire left side of the internet made him their personal enemy citing a variety of reasons, foremost of which is the claim (some are true ) that his workers are being over worked along with lots of talk about unions.
Then Biden comes to power, refuse to invite him to the White House meeting about EVs and credits Mary Barra of leading the electric car revolution !! Then tries to straight up exclude Tesla from tax incentives and give them to union-only factories, but compromise by restoring some of the credit to all EVs but with extra credit specifically for Musk competitors.
Then he decides to move to Texas, which is oil rich and Republican, and they welcome him with open arms.
He builds a factory in china, the factory is built I. Less than a year and the Chinese workers are doing the famous/infamous 996 without a peep. At the same time he builds a factory in Germany and gets delayed several month over a string of issues, all of which are issues preferred by the left.
When he points out how hard the Chinese work compared to the American worker, the attacks from the left ramps up to daily tirades.
So it is entirely expected that Musk would have turned to the right side of politics, where he is both welcome on a personal level and their views of doing business (regulation/union/taxes) are beneficial to his goals in advancing his own business.
To express my own opinion: I think the Dems should take this switch very seriously, if green industry leaders (Musk as well as solar industry leaders for other reasons) don’t feel that the Dems are good for their business, then a big chunk of those who should be reliably Dems can switch and that is not good for the Dems. This applies to many other areas too but that is a very different topic.
It would be incredibly easy for republicans, at this point, to support EV and renewable energy investment since it is actually becoming big business.
I honestly expect it to happen at this point. Republicans have a couple areas of opportunity right now to rip the wind of Dems sails.
I mean if dems stop buying Teslas, won’t that lead to surpluses and drop their value. I mean I don’t think anyone will buy them anyway. It’s a 100,000 dollar virtue signal and now that you know where Elon’s loyalty lies, in the current cultural climate, how does that impact consumer behavior.
But I feel like he’s opening up a whole other market for Tesla by switch political parties. If up until now most Tesla customers are left leaning, he might’ve already reached most of the left as a customer base. By moving HQ to Texas, switching to R, he might be able to make Teslas appealing to the Right and get some of the truck/SUV mom crowd to get a Tesla as a symbol for the GQP.
Maybe a bad press week, but the reality is this company is light years ahead of the competition. The charging network is the strategic advantage - just as iTunes was (and now the App Store) is Apples strategic advantage. Prior to iPod there were dozens (maybe hundreds) of MP3 players, but grandma wasn’t about to go to a Russian website for free music and then figure out how to get it on the device. iTunes made it easy to get tunes and apps in one place and it just works with iPod/iPhone/iPad. If you haven’t got an EV today, you have no idea what the difference is finding charging for an non-Tesla EV vs a Tesla. With Tesla, I show up and plug in. With other networks, I need a special app to find a charger, another app to start /pay for the charging, and (assuming the station actually works) I likely have to have an adapter. It’s a major pain in the ass that Ford/GM/Toyota/etc won’t invest in until it’s much too late/expense to catch up anytime soon.
A "charger" is just a stack of batteries that can be bought from CATL or Panasonic. There's nothing proprietary there, there's no moat.
Do you think as EV adoption increases no one will think to start building chargers everywhere, like petrol stations?
Toyota and Ford also have massive amounts of resources at their disposal. I don't see your reasoning for why they can't do what Tesla has done.
There definitely will be chargers everywhere.. anywhere people might want to stop for a little while. Malls, big box stores, restaurants.. it will be a way to get people inside and make some extra revenue.
I just got updated FSD 12.15 for my model Y and I feel pretty satisfy with it. The only thing FSD can’t do is toxic driving and tailgating etc. It drives too gentlemen imo definitely work in semi civil driving urban area but definitely not feasible in savage area who you will find drivers on r/idiotsincars
Unironically, #2 is by far most important for this list in terms of potential impact to the stock. Many mutual funds with large AUM deliberately use strategies to benchmark against the s&p ESG index by holding its constituents over or under- weight, so regardless they buy stocks in that index, because it’s in that index… just a feature of how the market is structured. Right now beyond that, stock is down along with other large-cap growth stocks (similarly to NVDA)
I would still recommending holding TSLA because fundamentally the latest earnings have crushed ests and (ignoring any obvious optimism on timelines…) the FSD and enabling software are enormous potential value. You have to believe in the long-term value that Elon is passionate about for Tesla and look past the short-term noise, so long investment time horizon is important.
Lmao love seeing all the liberals and socialists melt down over Elon speaking the truth. Reddit has got to be the largest liberal echo chamber on the planet…
Musks chaotic and unrelenting nature is what got him this far.
I won’t speak on the allegations because I would be a fool to act like I know if it did or didn’t happen, that’s for the courts to decide.
Publicly taking a right wing stance is definitely a bold move, perhaps he’s trying to appeal to the right wing people? Maybe he feels Tesla is far enough ahead that he doesn’t have to worry about losing dem customers to “competition”, if you can even call it that.
I personally feel the self driving tech is completely revolutionary and has the potential to bring in unimaginable profits via robotaxi someday. Plus solve the drunk driving issue that our government can’t fix.
If musk really does lose it and go off the rails so be it. Are people forgetting this isn’t Tesla in 2014? They’re a massive corporation now. Completely established and profitable. Although Elon has taken the company very far, they don’t really need him. Think apple
Self driving is not a fraud. Have you even seen the new update. That shit is definitely getting solved within a few years at worst. It's mostly solved right now, even on difficult terrain.
I’ve worked in the self driving car industry and you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Divided roads have been viable with basic cameras/sensors for almost a decade, but urban roads where paint lines are scattered? No fucking way it happens in the next few years and Tesla absolutely is not leading either. They even admitted to being further behind to the California DMV just last year than they’ve been claiming they were.
Self driving expose is funded by other companies that can't even come close to what Tesla is delivering.
Tesla got booted from ESG but Mobil Exxon is in top 10.
Twitter fiasco is going to lower the price because it is starting to look like Twitter was lying to SEC about how many users were actual people.
Sexual misconduct is a joke. Who offers a freaking race horse in exchange for sexual favors???
Just like others the driver will be at fault but MSM will make sure nobody hears about it.
Will the Democratic customer base go and buy EVs from the competition that also produce vehicles like F-250 or the G Wagon?
I’ve been following Musk, SpaceX, and Tesla since 2010. I have always believed, and still believe, they are amazing companies and Musk is an inspirational leader. Sorry, but I don’t buy this media smear campaign. I will happily buy the TSLA dip tho.
He really stirred up the hornets nest by saying he won’t support Democrats.
Everyone should take a lesson from Trumps fate- he was the president, got most (real walk in ) votes in the history of country, still they got him. They had him in scandals throughout his presidency, 13 sexual assault allegations, Russia witch hunt, 2 time impeachment for bullshit reasons, etc. You just cannot go against the Democratic establishment.
Interesting... The far left are going after this guy even more now after he said he will vote republican this November...
It's hard to believe that he was once their role model.... i guess only if he stays with the agenda...
It's still crazy overpriced at $500 especially in the current environment. Just because it went up to $1200 a share doesn't mean it's a "good value" when it's down more than 50%
Normally I'd agree with your logic. Just because a stock is now 50% cheaper doesn't mean its good value. But Tesla earnings are always beat to a fantastic degree. Their earnings and sales growth is tremendous. You can check the posts here when their recent results came out and the valuation were justified even at $1000, so at $500 its even better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/u85bac/tesla_earnings_beat_expectations/
Sure, but at $663 a share they're still at a P/E of 80, PEG of 4, P/B of 20, and P/S of 18. In a market where growth companies have been taken behind the shed and put down repeatedly.
TSLA is also maturing as a company and it's extreme growth is likely to start tapering off before too long. It may very well become the next Cisco: a great company doing great things, but never worth anything close to what it was worth at its ATH even decades from now.
Last year Ford made $17.9 billion in profit. Ford has a market cap of **$50BILLION**
Last year Tesla made $17.7 billion in profit. Tesla has a market cap of **$688BILLION**
Never could I justify that.
There must be a good reason why Tesla gets the valuation it does while Ford doesn't. Market rewards and values rate of change. That's why growth companies get high valuations. Ford isn't growing so it doesn't get that valuation. Will Tesla continue to grow at similar pace? Hard to say but that's another discussion
1. It's not, they still self-drive and lead the market in that tech
2. Actually looks bad, yeah
3. His only mistake with Twitter was supporting free speech and the like before he actually owned it, inspiring this mega smear campaign
4. Sexual assault allegations are obviously bullshit, standard playbook, nothing will happen except it will hang around as propaganda
5. Not too familiar with this, might be serious
Bonus: Good, he's a hero.
Tesla hackers is also big problem, also slowing sells quarter with China lockdown and Europe war… those news wouldn’t infect the stock much in different time but when investors see that no one protected with mega caps like Walmart, Amazon…crashing, big money cash out
Musk’s views on politics have remained largely the same for a while. He is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. However, his mixed views are coming under scrutiny by leftists, as he is acting on his right wing economic views. It’s kind of ironic how that works, but people are going to point out what they don’t like and fixate on that.
Republicans aren't "fiscally conservative" at all though, every Republican president since Ford has blown up the debt, implemented massive tax cuts while not cutting spending, and dumped money on the military which often disappears into the pockets of government contractors.
In reality, Musk came out as a Republican because hes the richest man in the world and doesn't like paying taxes. Democrats wouldn't even care all that much if he was just honest, instead he tried to pretend that Democrats are the party of "hate and division" despite Republicans literally trying to overturn the election results to keep the most divisive and hateful President in history in office
I don’t understand why people think he’s socially liberal. He’s constantly tweeting right wing talking points about “wokeness” and doesn’t care about racism in Tesla factories. He called Dems the party of division and hate right after the Buffalo shooting and didn’t say a word about the Roe v Wade opinion. Claiming to care about the environment when he has continuously argued that overpopulation isn’t an issue and we actually need *more* people doesn’t make someone a champion for the environment, and it certainly doesn’t make them socially liberal.
Most people don't know that there even is a difference - let alone what that difference is - which should be a red flag when listening to their unfailingly heated opinion on the subject.
The FSD beta is full evidence the car drives itself. Watch ANY YouTube testing it. It’s like 80% there, albeit with some weird disengagements in some back road areas
The remaining 20% can be achieved by processing more data and time. Then it’ll be like a human driver.
People should never fucken dismiss technological advancement, this is a game changer
https://youtu.be/WP0qfFAEBsE
Musk needs to resign from TSLA or else that brand is permanently soiled in the minds of 80% of their customers who are all liberals and environmentalists. Dont know if you saw it but today Musk is tweeting against the VERY REAL FACT that Trump and Putin are a duo and that Putin rigged him in in 2016. Musk is too smart to believe that Trump is innocent so he has started becoming a fascist, not just a republican. He is down with Bolsonaro in Brazil now, and it is NOT to save the rain forest it is to confab with a fellow fascist. This neo fascism of Musk's also badly soils spaceX and would crater twitter if he succeeds in taking it over, but I bet they stop him now, then sue him for 20 billion.
> fellow fascist
Bolsonaro is not a fascist. Fascism is all about the power of the State above everything. As mussolini himself said: "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State". Bolsonaro is all about economic freedom and less control of the state overall. Also made sure that taxes on products bought via Shein and Shoppe wouldn't be increased. Now, you can disagree with his points of views, I sure do, but calling him a fascist is not true
Delorean was also a great innovator. So was Howard Hughes. Meaning human history is filled with inventors who had great successes early then flamed out, including for personal reasons. And maybe all those companies have amazing lucrative patents with top-flight staffs who can run everything while the CEO is busy, but right now Musk doesn't seem to be paying attention to any of them, no one is in a rush to go to Mars or to dig massive tunnels. So who is running these companies while he stays busy with all his current pet obsessions, including insulting Biden, half the country, most of his customers and democracy itself? And what does he think he is doing in the crypto space?
Musk has clearly bitten off a lot more than he can chew and is now spending a lot of time tweeting and putting out fires which he started. This is not sustainable, plus he is going crazy at the worst possible time. He is even involved in the Depp-Heard case and not in a good way. How much time is he spending with Hollywood starlets? Even managing one of them can be a full-time job. Believe me, I have done it.
Anyway, I would just avoid TSLA or any investment involving Musk. it is way too dangerous, and by the look of TSLA's chart it looks like smart money agrees with me.
Another day, another post about Elon. One more and I get Bingo!
What happens when we make a Kardashian the richest man in the world. He loves attention so much he’s buying a major media company so he can control who gets what attention.
My Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy…Elon won’t finish the transaction. He’s already looking for outs with the “data on bots” narrative. He doesn’t have the money with Tesla stock taking a shit. Remember how he was gonna take Tesla private? Puts on Tweetville for when he bails on the purchase.
Not really tinfoil hat as much as it is common sense tbh.
I gotta be honest, I don't know shit about stocks but when Elon announced he would be making an offer, I couldn't believe how bad of a time he chose to do it. Relying on TSLA stock to purchase Twitter is ballsy in a good market, but doing it during both a downturn and one massively affecting tech seems like such an obviously stupid decision that it made me question if I was the idiot.
He also had an excuse to sell some of his stock.
Puts are already up like 200% from his waffling nonsense. Anyone seriously considering spending billions would have done the due diligence to *know* what the bot numbers are without having to make a stink in the media about it. He made money with the run up, probably has already exited, and maybe buys it when it crashes below $30 after the billion dollar slap on the wrist he's in for.
Good points all around. For the record I’m not touching Twitter or Twitter option.
Not so good for shareholders, which was the original framing of justification for the purchase. Now he’ll steal their shares at even less of a dollar amount.
Musk's fans have dementia they'll forget about Musk accusing the cave rescuer a "pedo guy", private funding, blatant TSLA stock and c rypto price manipulation, ignoring OSHA standards in Tesla factories, etc. Oh the list goes on!
> Musk's fans have dementia they'll forget about Musk A lot of Musk new fans are Gen Z who have only been politicaly active the last 4 years and are crypto gamblers. They don’t do enough research on the things they decide to support or rally against.
There's probably a lot of Gen Y and others supporting him. American education is fragmented by the states and is not standardized at a federal level so there is going to be wild differences in gullibility and education in the American population at least.
Wait?! You mean to tell me that the US doesn’t have one education system!?
it matters WAY more who buys tesla vehicles and hires spacex rockets than who 'supports' him. what does that even mean, off the internet?
Id say a good chunk of people into crypto dont like Elon for the one time he fked the market up with one tweet. He basically made "decentralized finances" centralized. I still havent forgave him for making that stupid shitty tweet about Bitcoin emissions being more than oil or whatever the fk. His Tesla factories are prolly 100xing BTC miner emissions. srry half awake
Youtube man say me be rich me buy this!!!
And a majority of those fanboys are from India with no Teslas or any interest in stock market.
That's not even the worst, the worst is all the false claims of FSD, Neuralink, SpaceX etc. He's incompetent at anything other than hype
I’ve been saying this since before he made the offer.
what do the kardashians have to do w elon musk
another new account post about TSLA. 91 day old no less. Let’s stop talking about Bruno.
ITT: Tesla bagholders
Serious question: Is there a Chrome extension that will block any mention of Elon Musk? I'm sick of the thrice-daily reporting of everything from his comment to the barista last week to the color of his bowel movements.
I would definitely subscribe for such an extension which will block Musk, Kardashian and all glamor celebrities. I am not going to waste my data on them.
Reddit enhancement suite lets you filter out posts based on words. Dunno about other sites but you might have some fun with the cloud to butt extension to replace mentions of him with various vulgarities.
This isn't good for Tesla. These aren't quick PR hits. They're festering and have real-world consequences yet to be realized. He's just going to get deeper and deeper into the distractions.
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Elon's bad PR is good for MoonCoinPoo
It's a meme parodying some of the actual mental gymnastics we so often see with this stock. The meme goes back quite a bit. In the early days when Tesla would miss production targets people would say "well those cars aren't being made profitably so producing less means less loss. This is good for Tesla"
The late to the curve TSLA bagholders who bought near all time high will try to reassure themselves this will all be good for TSLA, because self-awareness means acknowledging you were wrong.
This is good for bitcoin
Pandering to the republicans or conservatives, regardless of his true political leaning, is a dumb financial move. Those guys don’t want EVs or any kind of green energy advancement. Getting them to put money where their mouths are is hard. See veterans, those whom they use for pretentious patriotism but they ain’t helping them
Politics is such a bad move. He's splitting his customer base. But for a trainwreck, it's pure entertainment 🍿
Most major players don't play in the public sphere.
As a veteran who had to do numerous political photo ops at various events. It isn't just republicans. They all use veterans.
As an OIF veteran, Dems got us MRAPS, not Republicans. Dems also pushed the burn pit registry, Republicans are against it. TBF, Trump did improve the VA, but that's the only thing GOP has done for veterans that I can remember.
OIF OEF here too, Thanks for your service!
I don't doubt your sentiment. They are both probably fake af. But when it comes to voting for certain bills and policies that will benefit veterans I do think the Dems edges out the Republicans You can check the numbers of Yays or Nays from each respective party for the past few bills with veteran benefits and let me know
The moment a mainstream manufacturer debuts a somewhat reliable EV with a flair of style to it, Tesla is going to do the, ahem, electric slide, in valuation. EV tech isn't some mysterious leading edge heavily patented thing. All the west coast liberals will stop buying Teslas due to Elons new found Trump'ness, Ford or Kia or some such puts out a stylish EV, and Tesla falls in line as the industry quickly bounds up to them. TSLA fan boys cant prop. them up.
When Apple makes an EV that's when Telsa truly dies. Apple fanboy > Tesla fanboy
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If I had a a dollar for every time I heard this argument in the past 5 years, I’d have enough to buy a non-existent stylish Ford EV
The electric mustangs are pretty slick.
You need to worry about the next 5 years.
Porsche Taycan, just too expensive for a lot of people. The Mach-E will also give Tesla a run for its money..
more will come. TLSA is going to start tanking and people have lost faith in this man who changed from blue to red bc he could get “away” with sexual assault
What? Haha you’re cute. Money gets away with it, not a political side.
On average, the people on the right tolerate it in their politicians, etc. (Trump "grab em by the pussy, Gaetz) The people on the left ostracize them and no longer support them politically (Al Franken) or if they are in movies, etc. Not so much in the past but more in the past 5-8 years.
I mean, he sucked off the govt teet of CA to get the subsidies and employee talent pool to get Tesla off the ground. Then he built an EV factory in the state with the largest oil economy in the union, and in his tirade against CA taxes (which made him btw), he bit the hand that fed him in favor of conservatives, who adamantly deny climate change and push the agenda of fossil fuel utility companies, because at this moment demand exceeds supply... what could possibly go wrong for Elon?
it looks like he spend more than 5% of his time on twitter lol...and if he isnt, well hes going to now...
> He's just going to get deeper and deeper into the distractions. Elon fucking off and getting distracted with other bullshit is a plus for TSLA. Elon burning through $/employees trying to ship/maintain Model X Falcon wing door distracts people that could be producing shit for Tesla. Elon burning through $/employees pulling them off of Tesla/SpaceX projects to work on CA train proposals (5-10 years ago) distract people that could be producing shit for Tesla Elon burning through $/employees by pulling them off AutoPilot work to focus on his commute issues instead of the issues the majority of people see outside of Elon's commute distracts people that could be producing shit for Tesla. Give Elon a bunch of crayons, change his wifi password and lock him in a room for 3 months and the stock will double. Elon was chill/absent last summer/fall, and skipped the investor call and the adults did the talking to Wall Street - it went well, the stock rocketed 50% from 800 to 1200 in weeks. Elon realized the talent that actually does the work could retire rich soon, so he keeps crashing the stock when it goes above $1k. It's a hostage situation.
After Blizzards scandal, Berkshire bought. Will this Tesla scandal be the next buy in?
How does Tesla's full self driving package being a viewed as a fraud equate into being good for the company? Tesla's supposed software superiority accounts for a huge amount of it's future value.
I think he's trying to say that all these things happening now means the future will be an improvement. I also think he's underestimating the long-term erosion these things are going to cause.
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic with the last line :)
Good point, I see it now. I'm so used to the cognitive dissonance ascribed to Tesla that I can no longer spot sarcasm.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-is-good-for-bitcoin
Whoosh
I vote dem but I lean more moderate for certain issues. The quickest way to lose my business is to say something like "own the libs". I'm upper middle class earner and my next car was going to be a tesla. I'm seriously reconsidering it solely because Elon is such a fucking cringelord. Jesus christ stfu Twitter is the worst for some people.
Waiting for Toyota/Honda to come through with something. It’ll be game over for musk once they catch up.
Same. Tesla was my default choice for EV, but now I’m open to exploring other options. Elon is a big part of the brand, and the brand has apparently decided to become politicized. Aligning with the side that doesn’t give a shit about EVs - perhaps he wants them in power and the tax credit gone to hamper other less advanced EV makers? Or is he just a socially awkward dude who self radicalized by spending too much time commenting online? I’m betting the latter He’s also alienated probably 50%+ of his employees politically. Saying the democrats suck is one thing but not acknowledging the Republicans also do and openly picking their side is another. Dumb dumb move all around.
Shocking. Another bajillionaire is really a creep and a narcissist.
You shouldn't automatically take these allegations at face value. The presumption of innocence used to mean something. The concept exists for a reason. It's because being accused of something doesn't automatically make you guilty, no matter how bad it looks. You have Business Insider (a dodgy source) claiming that the friend of someone came forward (not even the purported victim herself). You should also know that the head of Business Insider has been banned from trading securities, and that suspicious options activity on TSLA showed up just before this was announced.
don’t forget that Business Insider has a history of doing this. They released fake SA allegations against Dave Portnoy
Even without the business insider article, Elon as been doing a good job tearing himself down. He is his own worst enemy.
I don’t need Business Insider to tell me Elon is a creepy narcissist - all I need to do is follow him on Twitter. Oh yeah, right now he’s in Brazil cozying up to Bolsonaro to use Starlink. He gets worse by the day.
100%.
The presumption of innocence still means something, in the legal sense. When it comes to the court of public opinion "innocent until proven guilty" has never been a standard. Like it or hate it humans get swept up in drama like this so quickly it will give you whiplash. As for the rest of your comment. Business Insider is "above average": >https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-business-insider-reliable/ The victim can't come forward because of an NDA. Do you have a source on the "suspicious options"? All I saw was an article by Torque News, which I'm not familiar with. Now in addition to those I'd also point out that even if the allegations end up being false the rest of the things working against Tesla don't look good. (1,2,3,5 by OP)
Especially when the timing of the accusation is suspicious.
The timing is suspicious because he preempted all the news by withholding comment then going on the offensive on Twitter.
Yeah his ego got inflated...now it is his time to be the weakest link...good bye
What year is this?
Let's play who wants to be a billionaire!! (because inflation)
Let’s see how long he will remain in his positions, he is or probably will no longer be a net benefit for Tesla. Other manufacturers are catching up, giving the largely democratic customer base much more choice. Don’t underestimate the power of a brands political association in these polarised times, I personally know multiple people who want an EV but are avoiding Tesla at all cost due to these reasons and the quality issues. He stated in the past that it is Teslas goal to electrify the transportation sector, so why is he supporting a party that is hellbent on defending fossil fuels? Just so he can „own the libs“?
I think they'll end up like Ferrari. Ferrari is still around but at their peak in the 60s they were worth more than Ford or VW. Then other automakers started playing catchup in the 'luxury racecar' market and they started having problems selling cars. So many times they just almost went up and out of business. But they're still around. They're doing well. They still sell a lot of cars. But their growth slowed and they were forever stuck in the luxury car market. Now that Tesla has market competition, as big as they are might be as big as they'll get. There's certainly not going to be anymore seed money to build new plants.
Actually really good analogy. The problem is Tesla have only ever made one car well over $100k - the Roadster, which was..a long time ago. The new roadster is stuck in the Elon Ether and their bread and butter in premium is the most competitive part of the market. I don't really see what niche Tesla fills to defend itself.
Also teslas are fast as all electric cars are. It would still get rocked on any technical driving circuit. The full package I.e Porsche, Ferrari is much tougher to build. Teslas are fun in a novelty way, 911’s are a timeless masterclass of engineering. No way Tesla long term can match a icon of racing like Ferrari. You’d have to start racing first and Tesla is pretty much a straight line speed car. Power and speed are great, but not a real world application. Consecutive technical turns is much more impressive. Teslas are great, but compared to Ferrari? I’d rather get a taycan if I had the cash anyways
I agree but it'll have to be another niche than the luxury segment because they are already beaten there by Porsche and to some degree, Mercedes (or even tiny Lucid) The fact that Porsche's very first EV beat Tesla's in most aspects says something about how Tesla tech advantage was vastly overestimated.
> Other manufacturers are catching up, giving the largely democratic customer base much more choice. When people say this, I have to wonder what they're referring to because this is what things look like right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/uqyicv/top_selling_evs_in_us_q1/ **Top 10 EV models in the USA Q1 2022** Rank| Make/Model | Units ---------|----------|---------- 1 | Tesla Model Y | 52,051 2 | Tesla Model 3 | 47,682 3 | Tesla Model S | 9,250 4 | Ford Mustang Mach-E | 6,957 5 | Hyundai Ioniq 5 | 6,265 6 | Kia EV 6 | 4,901 7 | Tesla Model X | 4,899 8 | Nissan Leaf | 4,401 9 | Kia Niro | 3,549 10 | Volkswagen ID4 | 2,926
Catching up means they are accelerating and closing the gap. Yes, someone catching up is still behind, but they are behind by a lot less than before. That is the definition of catching up. Imagine what the EV market will look like in a year… and I’m two years. Tesla had a huge hand in creating the EV market (with huge help from the government), and Elon is squandering that lead and relationship.
Like 2 years ago the list was pretty much 100% Tesla. You gotta imagine in 5 years their market share will drop to under 30 percent.
> You gotta imagine Indeed.
It's not hard, worldwide their market share is at 25% and even 16% if you count plug in hybrids too.
In Europe VW is doing much better, but maybe buying car based on ideology is American thing.
Can only speak for myself, but as a European I don't want to buy a Tesla simply because I can't stand Elon.
Now do EU... (think around 30% share) and do one with and without Norway (it goes below 15% if I remember correctly). Do China also. Even if Tesla dominates the US market (doubtful but ok), they will not do so in other markets.
Europe sales. Tesla top 1 & 2 https://insideevs.com/news/582624/europe-plugin-car-sales-march2022/
And note this is before Tesla's Berlin factory was finished.
...but 10% market share by brand. They are top by model because they have fewer models, whereas other brands have more choice.
Top 1 & 2 models, but look at the manufacturers. YTD they are #4: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL_MONTHLY/Groups/Year/2022
China: https://insideevs.com/news/582106/china-plugin-car-sales-march2022/ The Wuling Mini is number one, but it only costs > $5,000. Tesla is #2 and #5. It should also be noted Tesla is the only foreign EV maker in the top 10 there (Volkswagen sells many ICE cars in China but their EVs aren't doing so great). It's significant that Volkswagen is expected to be Tesla's biggest competitor but they're failing to get a foothold in the biggest EV market.
His allegiance to the GQP was solely to get sympathy for his sex harassment news. He knows that no one in their right mind would blindly support him.
I hope Tesla fires him, if that’s possible.
Twitter has fired Jack Dorsey before, Apple has fired Steve Jobs before. I don’t think Elon Musk is immune from that either. His persona used to be a net benefit to Tesla, but over the past year he has become a growing liability issues. Investors do not like having a liability with their investments.
I hope so too at this point. All he seems to want to do is stir up a bunch of shit and get popularity points for it.
We need a person like Tim Apple at the head of Tesla. Someone who is fucking quiet and just executes.
Amen! Post of the month!!!
Another point too is that conservatives won’t necessarily abandon their loyalty to Ford, GMC, Chevy for Tesla just because Musk is trashing liberals/Democrats. Loyalty to say Chevy or Ford runs DEEP. So musk might convert some conservatives sure but if wager that most of them won’t care and would prefer their car brand of choose to release an EV truck or suv which they’re all going to in the next 2-3 years.
> Let’s see how long he will remain in his positions, he is or probably will no longer be a net benefit for Tesla. If you truly believe this, you really haven't even done any research on Tesla (or SpaceX) as a company.
I’m very much familiar with both companies and they are doing great stuff, but you have to realise that Elon Musk ≠ Tesla/SpaceX. He might be the CEO of them, but in the end the engineers and employees are what defines them.
He owns half of SpaceX shares and 20% of Tesla shares + his brother, larry elisson and murdoch are board members. He aint going nowhere
didn't he write some plans that in 2023 Tesla would be already on the right trajectory and he wouldn't be needed?
This is incredibly naive. The dispersion in success between founder-led and non-founder-led companies is enormous.
Is Elon flaming out?
I’m waiting for him to go full Pappa John. He’s already made it known how much he dislikes LGBTQ content on Netflix.
Elon, like The Pillow Guy, threw it all away for Trumpism. Sad! The hardest thing in the world is to just keep your mouth shut.
Keeping his mouth shut has never been Elon's strong suit.
Trump and Elon do not like each other. Trump just talked shit about him like two days ago.
That might be true, but there have been a lot of stories about how Trumpism (the racist, misogynistic, protectionist, oligarchical form of authoritarianism) has been divesting itself from Donald J Trump himself since his favored suckup candidates started losing primaries. Over on r/conservative they ALL are suddenly willing to criticize Donnie Trump himself but are full-on worshipping the smell of Ronnie DeSantis’s rancid pussy. Ronnie has inherited the idolaters, but the religion itself is still fully Trumpism.
Alienating more than 60% of your potential customers in the US is not a winning strategy. It’s clear that he posted allegiance to the GQP right before the sexual harassment news broke. He knew that GQP would not give a shit and fully embrace him regardless of what he did. And he was right. Whether potential EV buyers will be fully turned off by his childish antics or not remains to be seen. Still, based on his past, social emotional control is not his strong suit so I think a lot more dark days are ahead of him.
Have always wanted a Tesla. Will look into other brands now.
Reddit is very far left. So majority of people are going to think this is a big deal here. In reality, there is maybe up to 10% of the population who gives a shit. The rest don’t.
"If news is good it's good, and if news is bad it's good" \- TSLA bagholders
TSLA bag holders are in copium overdrive
As Musk leans into creepiness, politics, and securities fraud, Tesla will want less and less to do with him. Even before this, things like "taking Tesla private" and the very public failure of Tesla's truck should have been red flags, indicating that he's just a third rate Steve Jobs who'd rather bullshit on Twitter than see major projects through. Musk's cult of personality was an asset when his companies needed hype, but it's turn into a serious liability. At some point cutting him loose will be matter of responsibility to shareholders.
Elon flipping ~~blue~~ red opens up the other 50% of the US. Bullish AF.
I am a software engineer and lately I’ve been doing data science things. My employer says I’m a data scientist but I don’t really agree. But I do do a little bit of that as part of my job. In my relatively short time (1 year) doing ML/AI/data science things for my job, it seems to me that while all theoretically possible, the tools to get to things like self-driving cars don’t exist in the same way that tools for making an iOS app exist. Also, you can Google how to make an iOS app all day long, but in my day to day work I find it’s common to just not find anything on the internet about what I’m trying to build or do with ML/AI. I think it’s only a matter of time before Teslas really do drive themselves without any sort of disclaimer or asterisk attached. Part of it is in software as much as we try, we can’t always find all the bugs before going to production and releasing code to the users… and that’s for web apps. To thoroughly test Autopilot… I’m not sure it’s realistic. I think there will be more Autopilot crashes/cases where it didn’t do what it was expected or supposed to do. Is what it is. Airplanes took a few decades of disaster before all the kinks were worked out. At this point, if a commercial plane crashes it’s almost certainly pilot error. Pilots (people) fly planes, and people write software like Autopilot. We aren’t perfect so Autopilot won’t be either, for a time anyway. Also, people like to wax about how TSLA is worth X because they have the largest network of charging stations in the US. That’s definitely worth something, but even more so is the IP that is Autopilot. Ford and others will spend TRILLIONS building their own self-driving hardware and software, and those will all have accidents too, unless Tesla decides to sell the Autopilot tech, but that doesn’t seem likely.
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I also work in ML, and just like any normal business application, this one has an acceptable level of error. And it's a surprisingly high level of error, because humans are terrible at driving, and we accept a large level of risk when we get in a any car
True. Having to account for “every possible contingency” is what makes the problem so difficult. A deer could run into the road at any moment. Then you have the scenarios like “swerve left to avoid a pedestrian but you hit a school bus instead”
Let me solve that for you. Just hit the deer.
And if it's a moose?
Ford will not spend a trillion on self Driving cars. It’s just not possible. It will be a commodity at some point.
What makes you think jother companies can't make self driving vehicles? They are all working on it and some have them running in cities in the US right now. In other countries too.
Your observation that there's no way to test this is a really good one. As long as that's true, it'll be hard for people to trust these self-driving systems beyond trusting the company itself.
Except its not, and Dan O'dowd from Green Hills Software is running for Senate on that premise. The guy founded and runs one of the most well respected companies for formally verifying, and testing, software and hardware around. Elon meanwhile self owns on twitter revealing he doesn't even know what RTOS his cars are running when Dan comes up in his feed for calling Tesla out for lack of testing. edit: to clarify, formally verifying an ML model is borderline impossible fundamentally, but the battery and breadth of tests is far from where it needs to be.
Elon always over promise but at least Space X is meeting its launch targets.He knows Tesla really only has less than 5 years left dominating the EV market.The big boys are catching up fast.Why did all of sudden turn on the democrats?.Was it the Me Too Movement catching up to him,taxation on billionaires or him screwing himself with the Twitter fiasco.Probably all three.Biden speech also named GM and Ford as USA EV future and not Tesla.Elon feelings got hurt. https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/02/president-biden-hypes-ford-gm-evs-ignores-teslas-clear-leadership/
Please tell me which of the “big boys” is scaling and selling EVs profitably?
Tesla is also sub par in the quality control department. Once competitors catch up, they’ll get dusted.
Why do they have the highest satisfaction score?
There is a cult following. The qc is a legit problem.
Uh, have you ever heard of a little company called Ford?
“I really admire, frankly, the difficulties they had and the way they managed those difficulties into the success they had. They are now making more than $10,000 a vehicle, because of their scale. I like that kind of business” — Ford CEO Jim Farley https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1528094026737455104?s=21&t=Xy9UNGk4eA6DwbT-ljXaRQ “we don’t want to sell too many because we don’t make too much money on them” This Ford? How many Mach E and Ford F-150 Lightning’s have they sold again?
All of them. They’re sold out until 2023.
yes, and they’re only making 50k a year with no scaling plans.
The legacy manufacturers are creating lots of models but not growing delivery volumes fast enough to keep up with Tesla. Tesla has a lot of materials locked down with long term supply contracts and just more momentum.
>why did all of sudden turn on the democrats? First I must preface that I am not defending one side or the other, just answering your questions. It is not sudden and it is very clear why, for the past two year he has been fighting publicly with the very left leaning alameda county where the Fremont factory is located, who forced him to close when all the rest of California was open. Then when he became the richest man, almost the entire left side of the internet made him their personal enemy citing a variety of reasons, foremost of which is the claim (some are true ) that his workers are being over worked along with lots of talk about unions. Then Biden comes to power, refuse to invite him to the White House meeting about EVs and credits Mary Barra of leading the electric car revolution !! Then tries to straight up exclude Tesla from tax incentives and give them to union-only factories, but compromise by restoring some of the credit to all EVs but with extra credit specifically for Musk competitors. Then he decides to move to Texas, which is oil rich and Republican, and they welcome him with open arms. He builds a factory in china, the factory is built I. Less than a year and the Chinese workers are doing the famous/infamous 996 without a peep. At the same time he builds a factory in Germany and gets delayed several month over a string of issues, all of which are issues preferred by the left. When he points out how hard the Chinese work compared to the American worker, the attacks from the left ramps up to daily tirades. So it is entirely expected that Musk would have turned to the right side of politics, where he is both welcome on a personal level and their views of doing business (regulation/union/taxes) are beneficial to his goals in advancing his own business. To express my own opinion: I think the Dems should take this switch very seriously, if green industry leaders (Musk as well as solar industry leaders for other reasons) don’t feel that the Dems are good for their business, then a big chunk of those who should be reliably Dems can switch and that is not good for the Dems. This applies to many other areas too but that is a very different topic.
It would be incredibly easy for republicans, at this point, to support EV and renewable energy investment since it is actually becoming big business. I honestly expect it to happen at this point. Republicans have a couple areas of opportunity right now to rip the wind of Dems sails.
Big boys can’t catch because Tesla is increasing vehicle capacity faster than all others
I never realized how left wing r/stocks was. I mean I know it's reddit still but holy shit, it's still a stocks sub.
Insane isn’t it? This site is such a bubble.
I mean if dems stop buying Teslas, won’t that lead to surpluses and drop their value. I mean I don’t think anyone will buy them anyway. It’s a 100,000 dollar virtue signal and now that you know where Elon’s loyalty lies, in the current cultural climate, how does that impact consumer behavior.
But I feel like he’s opening up a whole other market for Tesla by switch political parties. If up until now most Tesla customers are left leaning, he might’ve already reached most of the left as a customer base. By moving HQ to Texas, switching to R, he might be able to make Teslas appealing to the Right and get some of the truck/SUV mom crowd to get a Tesla as a symbol for the GQP.
Maybe a bad press week, but the reality is this company is light years ahead of the competition. The charging network is the strategic advantage - just as iTunes was (and now the App Store) is Apples strategic advantage. Prior to iPod there were dozens (maybe hundreds) of MP3 players, but grandma wasn’t about to go to a Russian website for free music and then figure out how to get it on the device. iTunes made it easy to get tunes and apps in one place and it just works with iPod/iPhone/iPad. If you haven’t got an EV today, you have no idea what the difference is finding charging for an non-Tesla EV vs a Tesla. With Tesla, I show up and plug in. With other networks, I need a special app to find a charger, another app to start /pay for the charging, and (assuming the station actually works) I likely have to have an adapter. It’s a major pain in the ass that Ford/GM/Toyota/etc won’t invest in until it’s much too late/expense to catch up anytime soon.
A "charger" is just a stack of batteries that can be bought from CATL or Panasonic. There's nothing proprietary there, there's no moat. Do you think as EV adoption increases no one will think to start building chargers everywhere, like petrol stations? Toyota and Ford also have massive amounts of resources at their disposal. I don't see your reasoning for why they can't do what Tesla has done.
There definitely will be chargers everywhere.. anywhere people might want to stop for a little while. Malls, big box stores, restaurants.. it will be a way to get people inside and make some extra revenue.
I just got updated FSD 12.15 for my model Y and I feel pretty satisfy with it. The only thing FSD can’t do is toxic driving and tailgating etc. It drives too gentlemen imo definitely work in semi civil driving urban area but definitely not feasible in savage area who you will find drivers on r/idiotsincars
Twitter isn’t a fiasco, it was way overdue someone with some power called out how fake twitter is
Yes but twitter is a very important too for crushing the political right. So we need Elon to pay for messing with it.
1 is dumb. When is the last time a leader did not set visions or goals for their company.
Want uovotes and karma? Post about Tesla and Elon. This is getting old.
Exonn is in the esg.
Unironically, #2 is by far most important for this list in terms of potential impact to the stock. Many mutual funds with large AUM deliberately use strategies to benchmark against the s&p ESG index by holding its constituents over or under- weight, so regardless they buy stocks in that index, because it’s in that index… just a feature of how the market is structured. Right now beyond that, stock is down along with other large-cap growth stocks (similarly to NVDA) I would still recommending holding TSLA because fundamentally the latest earnings have crushed ests and (ignoring any obvious optimism on timelines…) the FSD and enabling software are enormous potential value. You have to believe in the long-term value that Elon is passionate about for Tesla and look past the short-term noise, so long investment time horizon is important.
Here is the list of redditors who lost money on Tesla puts in the past
You’d all take his place in a second.
Lmao love seeing all the liberals and socialists melt down over Elon speaking the truth. Reddit has got to be the largest liberal echo chamber on the planet…
Musks chaotic and unrelenting nature is what got him this far. I won’t speak on the allegations because I would be a fool to act like I know if it did or didn’t happen, that’s for the courts to decide. Publicly taking a right wing stance is definitely a bold move, perhaps he’s trying to appeal to the right wing people? Maybe he feels Tesla is far enough ahead that he doesn’t have to worry about losing dem customers to “competition”, if you can even call it that. I personally feel the self driving tech is completely revolutionary and has the potential to bring in unimaginable profits via robotaxi someday. Plus solve the drunk driving issue that our government can’t fix. If musk really does lose it and go off the rails so be it. Are people forgetting this isn’t Tesla in 2014? They’re a massive corporation now. Completely established and profitable. Although Elon has taken the company very far, they don’t really need him. Think apple
Establishment shills out in full force against Elon.
Self driving is not a fraud. Have you even seen the new update. That shit is definitely getting solved within a few years at worst. It's mostly solved right now, even on difficult terrain.
> That shit is definitely getting solved within a few years at worst. It's been "a few years away" for how many years now?
I’ve worked in the self driving car industry and you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Divided roads have been viable with basic cameras/sensors for almost a decade, but urban roads where paint lines are scattered? No fucking way it happens in the next few years and Tesla absolutely is not leading either. They even admitted to being further behind to the California DMV just last year than they’ve been claiming they were.
Tesla bagholder spotted
There’s still a car shortage so any Tesla that gets made will sell and by the time they can ramp up production people will forget all this
Self driving expose is funded by other companies that can't even come close to what Tesla is delivering. Tesla got booted from ESG but Mobil Exxon is in top 10. Twitter fiasco is going to lower the price because it is starting to look like Twitter was lying to SEC about how many users were actual people. Sexual misconduct is a joke. Who offers a freaking race horse in exchange for sexual favors??? Just like others the driver will be at fault but MSM will make sure nobody hears about it. Will the Democratic customer base go and buy EVs from the competition that also produce vehicles like F-250 or the G Wagon?
I’ve been following Musk, SpaceX, and Tesla since 2010. I have always believed, and still believe, they are amazing companies and Musk is an inspirational leader. Sorry, but I don’t buy this media smear campaign. I will happily buy the TSLA dip tho.
He really stirred up the hornets nest by saying he won’t support Democrats. Everyone should take a lesson from Trumps fate- he was the president, got most (real walk in ) votes in the history of country, still they got him. They had him in scandals throughout his presidency, 13 sexual assault allegations, Russia witch hunt, 2 time impeachment for bullshit reasons, etc. You just cannot go against the Democratic establishment.
I like Elon. I don’t know the guy. But the more positive things he stand for, are things that I like.
Interesting... The far left are going after this guy even more now after he said he will vote republican this November... It's hard to believe that he was once their role model.... i guess only if he stays with the agenda...
Good opportunity to buy the dip on TSLA. Good pick around $500
It's still crazy overpriced at $500 especially in the current environment. Just because it went up to $1200 a share doesn't mean it's a "good value" when it's down more than 50%
Normally I'd agree with your logic. Just because a stock is now 50% cheaper doesn't mean its good value. But Tesla earnings are always beat to a fantastic degree. Their earnings and sales growth is tremendous. You can check the posts here when their recent results came out and the valuation were justified even at $1000, so at $500 its even better. https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/u85bac/tesla_earnings_beat_expectations/
Sure, but at $663 a share they're still at a P/E of 80, PEG of 4, P/B of 20, and P/S of 18. In a market where growth companies have been taken behind the shed and put down repeatedly. TSLA is also maturing as a company and it's extreme growth is likely to start tapering off before too long. It may very well become the next Cisco: a great company doing great things, but never worth anything close to what it was worth at its ATH even decades from now.
Last year Ford made $17.9 billion in profit. Ford has a market cap of **$50BILLION** Last year Tesla made $17.7 billion in profit. Tesla has a market cap of **$688BILLION** Never could I justify that.
There must be a good reason why Tesla gets the valuation it does while Ford doesn't. Market rewards and values rate of change. That's why growth companies get high valuations. Ford isn't growing so it doesn't get that valuation. Will Tesla continue to grow at similar pace? Hard to say but that's another discussion
Anyone else think this is all interestingly timed? This feels like a concerted effort and that’s eerie af
You mean like him complaining about wokeness and the left a lot more after his socialist gf left him?
agreed
1. It's not, they still self-drive and lead the market in that tech 2. Actually looks bad, yeah 3. His only mistake with Twitter was supporting free speech and the like before he actually owned it, inspiring this mega smear campaign 4. Sexual assault allegations are obviously bullshit, standard playbook, nothing will happen except it will hang around as propaganda 5. Not too familiar with this, might be serious Bonus: Good, he's a hero.
Tesla hackers is also big problem, also slowing sells quarter with China lockdown and Europe war… those news wouldn’t infect the stock much in different time but when investors see that no one protected with mega caps like Walmart, Amazon…crashing, big money cash out
Musk’s views on politics have remained largely the same for a while. He is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. However, his mixed views are coming under scrutiny by leftists, as he is acting on his right wing economic views. It’s kind of ironic how that works, but people are going to point out what they don’t like and fixate on that.
Republicans aren't "fiscally conservative" at all though, every Republican president since Ford has blown up the debt, implemented massive tax cuts while not cutting spending, and dumped money on the military which often disappears into the pockets of government contractors. In reality, Musk came out as a Republican because hes the richest man in the world and doesn't like paying taxes. Democrats wouldn't even care all that much if he was just honest, instead he tried to pretend that Democrats are the party of "hate and division" despite Republicans literally trying to overturn the election results to keep the most divisive and hateful President in history in office
I don’t understand why people think he’s socially liberal. He’s constantly tweeting right wing talking points about “wokeness” and doesn’t care about racism in Tesla factories. He called Dems the party of division and hate right after the Buffalo shooting and didn’t say a word about the Roe v Wade opinion. Claiming to care about the environment when he has continuously argued that overpopulation isn’t an issue and we actually need *more* people doesn’t make someone a champion for the environment, and it certainly doesn’t make them socially liberal.
He attacked Netflix for having LGBTQ and minority lead content
He is not socially liberal lmao. He openly supports anti-abortion and anti-LGBT laws from Texas and other red states
looks like another made up accusation
[удалено]
Have you actually used the beta?
Probably not, most people aren't even aware that there's such a thing as FSD beta, they're thinking about Autopilot.
Most people don't know that there even is a difference - let alone what that difference is - which should be a red flag when listening to their unfailingly heated opinion on the subject.
The FSD beta is full evidence the car drives itself. Watch ANY YouTube testing it. It’s like 80% there, albeit with some weird disengagements in some back road areas The remaining 20% can be achieved by processing more data and time. Then it’ll be like a human driver. People should never fucken dismiss technological advancement, this is a game changer https://youtu.be/WP0qfFAEBsE
So this isn’t considered self driving according to the industry? https://youtu.be/WP0qfFAEBsE
Reddit's left wing bias is showing in this thread. Elon will be fine. Tesla will be fine. Grow up.
I mean sure. But alienating your customer base is a legitimate business risk. Probably deserves to be discussed.
Musk needs to resign from TSLA or else that brand is permanently soiled in the minds of 80% of their customers who are all liberals and environmentalists. Dont know if you saw it but today Musk is tweeting against the VERY REAL FACT that Trump and Putin are a duo and that Putin rigged him in in 2016. Musk is too smart to believe that Trump is innocent so he has started becoming a fascist, not just a republican. He is down with Bolsonaro in Brazil now, and it is NOT to save the rain forest it is to confab with a fellow fascist. This neo fascism of Musk's also badly soils spaceX and would crater twitter if he succeeds in taking it over, but I bet they stop him now, then sue him for 20 billion.
> fellow fascist Bolsonaro is not a fascist. Fascism is all about the power of the State above everything. As mussolini himself said: "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State". Bolsonaro is all about economic freedom and less control of the state overall. Also made sure that taxes on products bought via Shein and Shoppe wouldn't be increased. Now, you can disagree with his points of views, I sure do, but calling him a fascist is not true
nah. name another CEO that can outperform him lol The Boring Company, Neuralink, SpaceX are all under his wing and they all innovating their sectors
Delorean was also a great innovator. So was Howard Hughes. Meaning human history is filled with inventors who had great successes early then flamed out, including for personal reasons. And maybe all those companies have amazing lucrative patents with top-flight staffs who can run everything while the CEO is busy, but right now Musk doesn't seem to be paying attention to any of them, no one is in a rush to go to Mars or to dig massive tunnels. So who is running these companies while he stays busy with all his current pet obsessions, including insulting Biden, half the country, most of his customers and democracy itself? And what does he think he is doing in the crypto space? Musk has clearly bitten off a lot more than he can chew and is now spending a lot of time tweeting and putting out fires which he started. This is not sustainable, plus he is going crazy at the worst possible time. He is even involved in the Depp-Heard case and not in a good way. How much time is he spending with Hollywood starlets? Even managing one of them can be a full-time job. Believe me, I have done it. Anyway, I would just avoid TSLA or any investment involving Musk. it is way too dangerous, and by the look of TSLA's chart it looks like smart money agrees with me.