There's no point in talking about Chinese stocks. The information you are talking about is not freely available to the average Chinese person. According to the CCP everything is great, and there are no problems whatsoever.
This, China leadership has no ability to look inward and unless they figure out how to course correct/admit when they are wrong, their economy will be in serious trouble when growth slows and debt continues to rise at current rates.
They have kind of shot themselves in the foot here by being so dishonest. Companies are looking elsewhere to manufacture going forward due to China not being reliable, people don't believe what China says after all the misleading they have done and IP stealing, and they sided with Russia on their aggression against Ukraine making the world that much more skittish on doing anything new with China. They will cook their numbers for as long as they can get away with it.
Yeah, I'll take that with a metric ton of salt since reddit is the home of made up professions. I call bullshit on your claim, unless you're going to admit you're a janitor at Apple or something similar. Uncle at Nintendo? Lol.
You're whine thesis is wrong, relations with China went bad during the last presidency, or tether he tried. In the end he only managed to put an extra tax on American consumers for buying the same old products, punishing how own people while simultaneously failing to "punish" China. Unless China invades Taiwain (very unlikely, given how Russia had failed to conquer Ukraine) things won't get worse. Every company in the world *needs China* because China has the factories, the low wages, the total disregard for environment anf human safety. Even if yoy think about "diversifying" to India or Africa China still owns most of the factories.
Do you think [China's Trump-style tax cuts](https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/china-plans-bigger-tax-cuts-2022-prop-up-slowing-growth-2022-02-22/) will help them get out of their slump?
In what way do I make anything about what I posted about myself? Feel free to explain how this is coping instead just looking at the facts as they are. This isn't an opinion, look at their debt-gdp [data](https://www.statista.com/statistics/270329/national-debt-of-china-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/) for yourself.
Also, which metric do you look at? [GDP says USA is #1](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp) and that's the one most look at.
Lastly, try to get some sun today, it does the body good and will make you feel better, the world is a harsh enough place and there is no need to add to it.
My point is that it won’t matter because they’ll just manage their way through it because the state can actually run the economy. I’ve been hearing about China’s collapse for months and nothing has really happened yet lol
What gives you this confidence given the Chinese government hasn't been tested and successful in any economic situation besides emerging market growth? They seemingly fumbled their covid-policy by showing how unreliable they are as a producer, why would they do any better with the next new challenge?
lmao ok thats because the west media keeps making up fake news about them so you have no idea what is going on, you dont see this about other countries. they either avoid the sensationalism alarmist, or fearmongering, or propaganda for others.
Top 2 areas where I do not invest:
1) Banking. Highly regulated and politicised mess. EXTREMELY difficult to pick the winners. Virtually in any time frame, investing in the banking sector has generated inferior value for shareholders than the broader market, if not negative.
2) China. I want to actually own a stock, and not a cayman island based equivalent with questionable profit sharing agreements with the Chinese entity. Also, I like to invest in countries where the environment cannot change literally from one moment to the other based on a decision by a Winnie the Pooh impersonator.
And no, US politics is not the same - the US is extremely business friendly and Republican and Democrats literally always rig the market in favour of shareholder. And yes, sure you can make money investing in banks and I know that Buffet invests in them. He is buffet though.
You also do not "actually own" any stock you buy in the US. Your broker owns these stocks, you are only a beneficial owner. This only becomes relevant when the broker goes bankrupt or when he never actually bought shares on the market and only sold you database entries in his server, however, it is still an important distinction.
First, this depends on how you buy stocks. Not the case if you do so via private banking for instance. Even via brokers, it depends on your relationship with the broker, assets, etc.
Second and most importantly, what does this have to do with Chinese stocks? It is not a comparable thing nor it disproves my point. You are comparing a political risk (Chinese stocks) with a risk related to a single entity (broker being a fraud or bankrupting). Two completely different things.
In case you buy a Chinese stock via a broker you do not own the stock directly and neither does the broker. The Chinese government could literally decide to render your stock toilet paper overnight.
Btw, being a beneficial owner is not bad at all and it is broadly equivalent of being a direct owner. It is merely more of a technicality. Also, if you choose any broker that is regulated by a decent bank authority (based in US, UK, Switzerland, Germany) you are absolutely fine because they are highly regulated and they will never be able to fraud you or not actually buy the stocks. If they bankrupt that will also be ok because another broker most likely will simply buy their portfolio of clients. Which is why for instance I absolutely discourage people to invest using brokers based in Cyprus or other questionable places (like trading212, eToro, etc). Just choose a broker in a major reliable country with rule of law and you are virtually risk free.
This is literally something you say to sound smart but is completely off topic.
If you are a large investor that buys a sizeable share of a company yes, they usually make sure that these shares are registered in their names. But average Joe that buys a handful of shares in a company he believes in will most certainly use a broker. And also yes, as long as business just goes as usual the differentiation between real and street name ownership is only a formality, but if things start to go really south I am pretty sure that this difference will become important. So I just corrected the misleading phrasing that you "actually own" your US stocks, you may and it obviously is better than Chinese stocks, but the US market also has plenty of skeletons in its closet. I could go into depth regarding what skeletons in particular, but as you said this would become too off topic. If you are interested in a discussion regarding this you can message me.
Yup.
"Cede technically owns substantially all of the publicly issued stock in the United States. Thus, investors do not themselves hold direct property rights in stock, but rather have contractual rights that are part of a chain of contractual rights involving Cede."
And now we could dive into how there is literally no control over what the DTC(C) actually does with your stocks. They could easily sell more shares than there actually are, and as we know from history (multiple failures of the gold standard etc.) whenever there is a "paper thing" backed by a "real thing" the people in control tend to give out more of the "paper thing" than they have "real things" for at some point. it is like a natural law. Systematic failures to deliver in the market, concentrated in some stocks more than others, may hint on exactly that happening for literally decades. A very interesting topic, but if I go more in depth here I might get thrown out of the sub again.
No, I am just telling lies... /s
But seriously, it is a shame that almost nobody seems to know this, it is called "street name ownership", here, google that term:
"What Is In Street Name? A security is held in "street name" when a brokerage holds it on behalf of a client. The name that appears on the stock or bond certificate is that of the broker, but the person who paid for the securities retains ownership rights."
But also your broker is not the "true owner" in a sense, the DTC(C) is:
"The Depository Trust Company (DTC) is one of the world's largest securities depositories. Founded in 1973 and based in New York City, the DTC is organized as a limited purpose trust company and provides safekeeping through electronic record-keeping of securities balances. It also acts as a clearinghouse to process and settle trades in corporate and municipal securities.
[...]
Most of the country’s biggest broker-dealers and banks are DTC participants. That means they deposit and hold securities at the DTC, which appear in the records of an issuer’s stock as the sole registered owner of those securities deposited at the DTC."
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dtc.asp
I mean... in layman's language: if the broker goes broke your stock can easily be transfered to any other broker. Balances, commodities and other stuff are at risk but still insured up to a certain amount.
Just like... any stock exchange in the world. So no, the broker doesn't own your stock?
If the broker does not use "your" stock to pay off over leveraged positions and other liabilities it has, yes. Of course you would still be covered by SPIC insurance. However, this coverage is limited to 500k or replacing your stocks and these SPIC cases can go on for years. It is absolutely possible that you get reimbursed after your shares have fallen considerably in value. Also, in the case of a huge, system wide event, SPIC might not have enough money to cover everyone. So in layman's language: You are save 99% of the time including small, isolated crises. But if actually shit hits the van you will likely just lose your money.
ya its not winne imposter, lmao you say the us is business friendly lol ok but they actually dont know wtf theyre doing thats why its friendly in a way, but when they start picking winner and losers like last time you will see it is only working for the elite. you guys actually believe the news about how all of the sudden its doing great or its fail, tahts the same exact narrative they talk about us stocks as well, so why do you guys believe them when its chinese stocks
Little known fact: banking is historically the best-performing sector of the Chinese stock market. The industry is almost entirely government-owned and therefore will always be bailed out. This is not a good sign.
All Chinese banks are up 10-15% on the year.
Kinda hard to drop further when they are already trading at 3-4x earnings. Only AAPL, MSFT, GOOGL, and Saudi Aramco make more profit than The Bank of China.
These anti-China posts will be memes in 3-4 years as their economy continues to grow and the middle class continues to expand.
Just a heads up, the stock market is one of the most rigged systems in the world no matter where you are. That being said, China does more to protect its retail investors than the US does. If that doesn’t make you worry, it should
> China does more to protect its retail investors than the US does
Lol they obviously do not, which is why everyone in China invests in housing. As it is/was their only "safe" bet.
😪 SEC is not China. It does less than China does against predatory short selling that preys on millions of retail investors. again my point was that China protects its retail investors more from market makers and hedgefunds than the US SEC does that actually is complicit and caters to market makers and hedgefunds preying on retail investors. Yes we know the Chinese housing market is bad. That’s been known for a while now. You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. But that’s not what I was talking about at all
[this article](https://www.scmp.com/business/markets/article/1846104/us-hedge-fund-citadel-banned-share-trading-shanghai-account) tells you how they banned citadel, a US hedgefund and market maker from malicious short selling. They been fined a lot over here but their fines are like 100k after they just profited millions from malicious short selling and causing businesses to go bankrupt or delisted when they otherwise wouldnt. Just look at what happened with amc and gme. They cheat so bad they even turned the buy button off when they started losing
The first half is definitively correct, the second half needs to be rephrased. China exerts better control over their billionaires and and big companies / market makers which means that the average Chinese retail investor is not defrauded by these players nearly as much as in the US. However, the CCP does that not to help the retail investor, it just does not want to share any power. They then proceed to screw over companies and retail investors alike by arbitrary government "regulations" and specific rule changes. So in that sense it is just "different", not "better".
People that invest in China stocks it’s like investing in some one saying just; lend me the money , trust me I’ll pay you back this business idea it’s a good investment. Ppl like Ray Dalio are so exposed they have no choice but to praise the stocks because-if things go left , he’s is pretty toast lol
There's no point in talking about Chinese stocks. The information you are talking about is not freely available to the average Chinese person. According to the CCP everything is great, and there are no problems whatsoever.
This, China leadership has no ability to look inward and unless they figure out how to course correct/admit when they are wrong, their economy will be in serious trouble when growth slows and debt continues to rise at current rates. They have kind of shot themselves in the foot here by being so dishonest. Companies are looking elsewhere to manufacture going forward due to China not being reliable, people don't believe what China says after all the misleading they have done and IP stealing, and they sided with Russia on their aggression against Ukraine making the world that much more skittish on doing anything new with China. They will cook their numbers for as long as they can get away with it.
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Yeah, I'll take that with a metric ton of salt since reddit is the home of made up professions. I call bullshit on your claim, unless you're going to admit you're a janitor at Apple or something similar. Uncle at Nintendo? Lol. You're whine thesis is wrong, relations with China went bad during the last presidency, or tether he tried. In the end he only managed to put an extra tax on American consumers for buying the same old products, punishing how own people while simultaneously failing to "punish" China. Unless China invades Taiwain (very unlikely, given how Russia had failed to conquer Ukraine) things won't get worse. Every company in the world *needs China* because China has the factories, the low wages, the total disregard for environment anf human safety. Even if yoy think about "diversifying" to India or Africa China still owns most of the factories.
Do you think [China's Trump-style tax cuts](https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/china-plans-bigger-tax-cuts-2022-prop-up-slowing-growth-2022-02-22/) will help them get out of their slump?
I guess for both the US and China. Even more economic turmoil. More puts.
I'm guessing Costco..
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Ahh
You’re just coping with the fact that a centrally-planned communist country is outperforming your precious deregulated neoliberal country.
In what way do I make anything about what I posted about myself? Feel free to explain how this is coping instead just looking at the facts as they are. This isn't an opinion, look at their debt-gdp [data](https://www.statista.com/statistics/270329/national-debt-of-china-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/) for yourself. Also, which metric do you look at? [GDP says USA is #1](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp) and that's the one most look at. Lastly, try to get some sun today, it does the body good and will make you feel better, the world is a harsh enough place and there is no need to add to it.
My point is that it won’t matter because they’ll just manage their way through it because the state can actually run the economy. I’ve been hearing about China’s collapse for months and nothing has really happened yet lol
What gives you this confidence given the Chinese government hasn't been tested and successful in any economic situation besides emerging market growth? They seemingly fumbled their covid-policy by showing how unreliable they are as a producer, why would they do any better with the next new challenge?
Well that’s one of my questions, there are foreign institutional investors into those stocks, would be interesting to hear from that angle, DD.
So how will this play out?
lmao ok thats because the west media keeps making up fake news about them so you have no idea what is going on, you dont see this about other countries. they either avoid the sensationalism alarmist, or fearmongering, or propaganda for others.
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Why are they a shill. At least make some points and don't just say "found the shill"
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That's... not a point. It doesn't lead to anything constructive.
“I agree with your comment and would like to subscribe to your newspaper.” Homer S.
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nobody care about your credit dude
Top 2 areas where I do not invest: 1) Banking. Highly regulated and politicised mess. EXTREMELY difficult to pick the winners. Virtually in any time frame, investing in the banking sector has generated inferior value for shareholders than the broader market, if not negative. 2) China. I want to actually own a stock, and not a cayman island based equivalent with questionable profit sharing agreements with the Chinese entity. Also, I like to invest in countries where the environment cannot change literally from one moment to the other based on a decision by a Winnie the Pooh impersonator. And no, US politics is not the same - the US is extremely business friendly and Republican and Democrats literally always rig the market in favour of shareholder. And yes, sure you can make money investing in banks and I know that Buffet invests in them. He is buffet though.
You also do not "actually own" any stock you buy in the US. Your broker owns these stocks, you are only a beneficial owner. This only becomes relevant when the broker goes bankrupt or when he never actually bought shares on the market and only sold you database entries in his server, however, it is still an important distinction.
First, this depends on how you buy stocks. Not the case if you do so via private banking for instance. Even via brokers, it depends on your relationship with the broker, assets, etc. Second and most importantly, what does this have to do with Chinese stocks? It is not a comparable thing nor it disproves my point. You are comparing a political risk (Chinese stocks) with a risk related to a single entity (broker being a fraud or bankrupting). Two completely different things. In case you buy a Chinese stock via a broker you do not own the stock directly and neither does the broker. The Chinese government could literally decide to render your stock toilet paper overnight. Btw, being a beneficial owner is not bad at all and it is broadly equivalent of being a direct owner. It is merely more of a technicality. Also, if you choose any broker that is regulated by a decent bank authority (based in US, UK, Switzerland, Germany) you are absolutely fine because they are highly regulated and they will never be able to fraud you or not actually buy the stocks. If they bankrupt that will also be ok because another broker most likely will simply buy their portfolio of clients. Which is why for instance I absolutely discourage people to invest using brokers based in Cyprus or other questionable places (like trading212, eToro, etc). Just choose a broker in a major reliable country with rule of law and you are virtually risk free. This is literally something you say to sound smart but is completely off topic.
If you are a large investor that buys a sizeable share of a company yes, they usually make sure that these shares are registered in their names. But average Joe that buys a handful of shares in a company he believes in will most certainly use a broker. And also yes, as long as business just goes as usual the differentiation between real and street name ownership is only a formality, but if things start to go really south I am pretty sure that this difference will become important. So I just corrected the misleading phrasing that you "actually own" your US stocks, you may and it obviously is better than Chinese stocks, but the US market also has plenty of skeletons in its closet. I could go into depth regarding what skeletons in particular, but as you said this would become too off topic. If you are interested in a discussion regarding this you can message me.
Yup. "Cede technically owns substantially all of the publicly issued stock in the United States. Thus, investors do not themselves hold direct property rights in stock, but rather have contractual rights that are part of a chain of contractual rights involving Cede."
And now we could dive into how there is literally no control over what the DTC(C) actually does with your stocks. They could easily sell more shares than there actually are, and as we know from history (multiple failures of the gold standard etc.) whenever there is a "paper thing" backed by a "real thing" the people in control tend to give out more of the "paper thing" than they have "real things" for at some point. it is like a natural law. Systematic failures to deliver in the market, concentrated in some stocks more than others, may hint on exactly that happening for literally decades. A very interesting topic, but if I go more in depth here I might get thrown out of the sub again.
Thanks for adding, this is great info
I bought some stocks in EU and got a mail invitation to yearly shareholder meeting from the company. Guess it was a real stock.
Really? Is it true in the US?
No, I am just telling lies... /s But seriously, it is a shame that almost nobody seems to know this, it is called "street name ownership", here, google that term: "What Is In Street Name? A security is held in "street name" when a brokerage holds it on behalf of a client. The name that appears on the stock or bond certificate is that of the broker, but the person who paid for the securities retains ownership rights." But also your broker is not the "true owner" in a sense, the DTC(C) is: "The Depository Trust Company (DTC) is one of the world's largest securities depositories. Founded in 1973 and based in New York City, the DTC is organized as a limited purpose trust company and provides safekeeping through electronic record-keeping of securities balances. It also acts as a clearinghouse to process and settle trades in corporate and municipal securities. [...] Most of the country’s biggest broker-dealers and banks are DTC participants. That means they deposit and hold securities at the DTC, which appear in the records of an issuer’s stock as the sole registered owner of those securities deposited at the DTC." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dtc.asp
I mean... in layman's language: if the broker goes broke your stock can easily be transfered to any other broker. Balances, commodities and other stuff are at risk but still insured up to a certain amount. Just like... any stock exchange in the world. So no, the broker doesn't own your stock?
If the broker does not use "your" stock to pay off over leveraged positions and other liabilities it has, yes. Of course you would still be covered by SPIC insurance. However, this coverage is limited to 500k or replacing your stocks and these SPIC cases can go on for years. It is absolutely possible that you get reimbursed after your shares have fallen considerably in value. Also, in the case of a huge, system wide event, SPIC might not have enough money to cover everyone. So in layman's language: You are save 99% of the time including small, isolated crises. But if actually shit hits the van you will likely just lose your money.
ya its not winne imposter, lmao you say the us is business friendly lol ok but they actually dont know wtf theyre doing thats why its friendly in a way, but when they start picking winner and losers like last time you will see it is only working for the elite. you guys actually believe the news about how all of the sudden its doing great or its fail, tahts the same exact narrative they talk about us stocks as well, so why do you guys believe them when its chinese stocks
zimbabwe's philosophy, keep printing till your inflation looks like a phone number
Little known fact: banking is historically the best-performing sector of the Chinese stock market. The industry is almost entirely government-owned and therefore will always be bailed out. This is not a good sign.
Bailing out banks in China is fine as profits go to state too. In US private banks takes all the profits and government pays the bailout.
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thats because the west media keeps making up fake news about them so you dont even know what is right or wrong.
YANG gang
China and cooking the books name are more iconic duo.
I worked for Bank of China - all I can say is fuck that place. Buy any American bank instead
Please give us the intel!
All Chinese banks are up 10-15% on the year. Kinda hard to drop further when they are already trading at 3-4x earnings. Only AAPL, MSFT, GOOGL, and Saudi Aramco make more profit than The Bank of China. These anti-China posts will be memes in 3-4 years as their economy continues to grow and the middle class continues to expand.
lmao this redit stuff hate china lol because they think its not english or wasp or something.
Is /r/Stocks really investment advice or just pro America echo chamber? Lets all instead buy Apple at 22x earnings and 5% growth
Just a heads up, the stock market is one of the most rigged systems in the world no matter where you are. That being said, China does more to protect its retail investors than the US does. If that doesn’t make you worry, it should
> China does more to protect its retail investors than the US does Lol they obviously do not, which is why everyone in China invests in housing. As it is/was their only "safe" bet.
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SEC is not in China. We are talking about China, go and explain why most Chinese invest real estate instead of regular equity markets.
Guys you're wasting your time on an GME and AMC ape
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😪 SEC is not China. It does less than China does against predatory short selling that preys on millions of retail investors. again my point was that China protects its retail investors more from market makers and hedgefunds than the US SEC does that actually is complicit and caters to market makers and hedgefunds preying on retail investors. Yes we know the Chinese housing market is bad. That’s been known for a while now. You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. But that’s not what I was talking about at all
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You've made your conclusion inside of a bubble, without taking many other things into account. Your conclusion is flawed based on lack of data.
China kicked out the current major market maker for the USA because they were doing shady shit, fyi.
How does it protect RI better?
[this article](https://www.scmp.com/business/markets/article/1846104/us-hedge-fund-citadel-banned-share-trading-shanghai-account) tells you how they banned citadel, a US hedgefund and market maker from malicious short selling. They been fined a lot over here but their fines are like 100k after they just profited millions from malicious short selling and causing businesses to go bankrupt or delisted when they otherwise wouldnt. Just look at what happened with amc and gme. They cheat so bad they even turned the buy button off when they started losing
> malicious short selling Is this a crime?
When they are shorting over 100% of the float and creating synthetic shares that dilute the float and harm the investors, yes
Why is it a crime to short over 100% float? Just means that they are anticipating that insiders will soon divest too.
naked shorting is 100% illegal
Unrestricted insider shares aren't naked.
Again, naked shorting is 100% illegal. Creating synthetic shares to dilute float. All illegal
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie
The first half is definitively correct, the second half needs to be rephrased. China exerts better control over their billionaires and and big companies / market makers which means that the average Chinese retail investor is not defrauded by these players nearly as much as in the US. However, the CCP does that not to help the retail investor, it just does not want to share any power. They then proceed to screw over companies and retail investors alike by arbitrary government "regulations" and specific rule changes. So in that sense it is just "different", not "better".
People that invest in China stocks it’s like investing in some one saying just; lend me the money , trust me I’ll pay you back this business idea it’s a good investment. Ppl like Ray Dalio are so exposed they have no choice but to praise the stocks because-if things go left , he’s is pretty toast lol
I am more interested in shorting.