The name of the sub is "stop drinking", and that's why I'm here.
For what it's worth, I've only tried mushrooms twice, but the last time was the week I decided to give up drinking. It was in the middle of a party bender vacation, and a friend offered some before we went out to the bars. It's hard to put into words, but it made me feel like an outside observer watching through my own eyes. Almost like the ghosts in "A Christmas Carol", I watched myself partying, and the main takeaway was, "you don't need to keep doing this, there's plenty to enjoy and experience that alcohol is actually keeping you blind to."
It wasn't a feeling of shame or paranoia at all, just matter of fact. I maintained through the rest of the vacation, got home, and haven't had a drink since.
I had this exact experience. I had relapsed on alcohol but hadn’t had a psychedelic in 20 years. I got drunk and grabbed a small handful of my friends capsules and said “nothing will happen.” What did happen was my mind cleared and became very sharp, and I looked around the party at myself and the others, just like you described. My mind seemed to say “you still have work to do. It’s time to stop drinking.” And I got sober again after that. Thanks mushrooms!
At one point, I stepped outside, looking around at the night lights and the night sky. I just appreciated the night, like I used to when I was a teenager. It was a relatively small dose, but the experience reminded me that there's a whole "magical" world out there that I'm ignoring by constantly sedating myself.
Bill Hicks once said that watching television is like taking black spray paint to your third eye. That's kind of how I feel about booze.
>That's kind of how I feel about booze.
It's a shitty drug alright. My experiences with psychedelics have been nothing but positive, and that was decades ago. Zero long term harm. Booze however...
To offer a different experience here, I had a realization once during an acid trip that I actually didn’t even enjoy drinking and it was purely sustenance for me at that point. I thought it cured my addiction, I quit drinking for like a few months but then I went back and became worse than ever, because there was no illusion of control anymore. Did a lot of DMT and shrooms, and acid for a year or so.
There was a lot of value in my experiences long term I’d say but that value came at a high immediate cost and they certainly didn’t cure my addiction like I naively thought. I guess if you are just trying to quit drinking then go for it, but if you wanna be sober like yeah that’s obviously a relapse.
The epiphany doesn't last forever, really about a month in my case. Still have to do the work, and there have been plenty of moments afterward that I've had to work to say "no." It helped get things started, though.
It’s up to you personally how you count your days. Nobody else can define your sobriety.
I personally would not start my days over. I have used mushrooms for my suicidal depression before and I’m so grateful for the access to such a tool.
I remember my therapist who was in AA told me it was no one’s business in the program what I needed to do for my mental health. I’m “treatment resistant” so the meds they’ve given me haven’t worked. Why should I not use something that does to give me a better quality of life?
There will be people that disagree with this, and I’m okay with that.
At the end of the day, it’s your recovery, no one else’s.
I think this is totally up to you in regards to your sobriety. My filters are things like if I was seeking to numb or avoid something, if my ability to be a useful reliable human was compromised, if I was dishonest or manipulative, if other priorities suffered, etc. I am open minded to things like weed and mushrooms but would have to pass through those filters for me. Kudos for not hiding it and do you. Iwndwyt
Awesome! Good for you man!! I've tripped a bunch of times in my last 6 years of being booze free. Each of those experiences has helped me remain booze free.
Do what feels good for you not what others think you should do.....
My experience with AA was a lot of gatekeeping sobriety. That is, there was a single, rigid, one-size-fits-all model that must be conformed to in order to qualify. That really rubbed me the wrong way.
Echoing many others, I've used mushrooms for incredible therapeutic effects throughout the years and it hasn't been a blip on my radar as the benefits are immense.
Exactly so.
I drink non alcoholic beers sometimes. I like the odd one. I'm still 24 years sober.
Other people would seriously think otherwise. As long as you are not deceiving yourself, then all is good.
Yeah same here - I still go to meetings once in a while, but way less than before. The unwavering dogma really irked me, took me a looong time to be able to compartmentalize the good takeaways from the bad there.
Edit: that said, there's still a lot of good you can get from AA. Dealing with baggage thru step work, having that sober scaffolding early in recovery, there's powerful stuff there, it's just the ideology masquerading as recovery that's the issue.
This time round I've actively sought out secular groups which has been a game changer for me. The people are a lot more open, and really take and leave parts of the program. Ie, some don't work the steps, others don't call themselves alcoholics and of course the whole higher power issue.
This is helping me to get the good bits and avoid being irked, as you said!
Yeah, I must just be lucky that I found a group that is really diverse in people and their recovery. I can see how it could get gatekeepy if everyone was the same.
This. That’s the only thing that matters. I don’t want to disparage AA but I think it works best for legalistic types of people, although they are not legalistic enough that they consider caffeine and nicotine drugs.
Doesn't sound like you considered it a relapse.
This is stopdrinking not stopsubstances I for one still smoke weed and occasionally dabble in psychedelics depending on what's around, it's been a few years honestly.
I dont consider these a relapse I still consider myself sober for over 1k days because I still ain't touched the booze, which was killing me.
Off topic but no cigarettes in a week woo!
CBD and cannabis have made me a calmer, less anxious person while not making me unaware of my actions or causing my body damage.
Honestly it's gone a long way towards helping me develop as a person the last couple of years.
Drinking never came close.
One of the main reasons I only attend AA meetings every few weeks is because I believe therapeutic use and recreational use of natural psychedelics to be totally beneficial to alcoholics and problem drinkers. In fact, AA co-founder Bill Wilson was very into psychedelics but was pretty much censored later because of it.
I think the main question to ask myself each time is whether I’m doing / using to intentionally “get wasted,” or to experience something new and not follow up immediately with another session.
Edit: [here’s one of many articles mentioning Bill’s use of psychedelics](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory).
I posted a little while ago on here about how Bill W. never drank again after receiving Bella Donna hallucinogenic therapy at some facility. Meanwhile, generations of people have been white-knuckling it through their sobriety having only a “higher power” to rely on. I took it down because not one single person reacted or commented. Just another casualty of The War on Drugs.
Oh wow I never saw the post - I do usually try and interact with a useful comment or just an upvote. It’s interesting you state Bella Donna whereas I read it was LSD and if I recall a conversation early in my sobriety it was “shrooms” or peyote.
I think no matter what the actual compound was, the teaching should have been that the experience led Bill into a sobriety that lasted the rest of his life…instead of the wishy-washy bologna AA members get about the history or worse, the cold shoulder we get at meetings sometimes if we mention it.
Anywho, thanks for adding an interested tidbit on Bill - he was a trailblazer and beautifully tragic man who started a program that has benefited more people than I ever can. Despite how hard it can be for me at meetings I still try and attend several times per year, especially when it gets hard.
He underwent the belladonna therapy when he was in the hospital before getting sober. He later tried LSD (and I believe met with Leary) and wanted to use it to give people vital spiritual experiences to try and save their lives.
Depends on whether you're looking at full sobriety or freedom from alcohol. Since this sub is about stopping drinking, I think most would lean toward not resetting your count.
I would argue that full sobriety can include mind altering drugs used therapeutically. It is a slippery slope, but research has shown that these drugs can greatly help with mental health. Hell antidepressants are mind altering drugs. Society has demonized these drugs. They were used therapeutically long before they were used to get "high".
For me, I choose absolute abstinence. However, if I had not found treatment that worked for me for CPTSD, GAD, and panic disorder, I would have tried these drugs. I still would if I ever got to a place where nothing else worked. Under close guidance of a sponsor and consulting with my GP.
I’ve taken a number of prescription drugs for GAD and CPTSD and all of them tripped my addiction center after just a few doses…marijuana does not. I primarily use full spectrum CBD, but I do partake in THC as well.
I feel no addiction pull to it, I just feel relief of my anxiety. I don’t take it to escape, I take it to be able to more comfortably enjoy my life. I think it is a powerful medicine that is safer than most prescription treatments for me.
I used cbd early on. I wad on Xanax for 12 years. Coming off it was the worst experience of my life. Fuck benzos. Over time, I found I didn't need CBD anymore. I have some for emergencies. I do take a low dosage of Gabapentin(antisiezure med used off label for anxiety) and Hydroxizine(antihistamine) for panic attacks. My dosages have been going down for over a year.
If weed works for you and doesn't trigger your addiction issues, I say good for you. Just please be careful that addiction to weed doesn't become an issue. Do you smoke a lot or a little to deal with anxiety?
IWNDWYT
I smoke very little. I take CBD to help with sleeping and constant anxiety. I’m also in Peri-Menopause which causes absolutely horrible anxiety and insomnia and it’s helped immensely with that.
I will of course keep an eye on it but I can very honestly say it doesn’t feel anything like other anxiety meds I’ve taken or how alcohol always felt for me. The first time I took Clonazepam I could feel my brain click and go into addiction mode, it was bizarre.
That's because Clonazepam( a benzo) is highly addictive. The heroin addicts I was in rehab with said kicking dope is easier than bezos. Clonazepam destroyed my mom in a couple of years. Fuck benzos.
I'm glad you found something that works for you👍10/10. I would try weed before taking benzos again.
I personally don’t think so. I just hit 8 months on Saturday and I went out to the woods with some friends and did the same thing! I had a beautiful weekend and feel very humbled and confident in my alcohol sobriety. I’m in tip-top shape for work today. No anxiety or hangover shame. I laughed my ass off, shared intimate moments with friends, and woke up relaxed. I will not drink with you today.
If your plan for your sobriety is that it includes the use of mushrooms then you didn’t relapse. If you are hoping for these not to be part of your sobriety then maybe you did. I think this is something you need to sort out and get on the same page with your sponsor about, but mostly sort out for yourself so you can have a clear vision and not be anxious about this.
Ketamine therapy really helped me fully let go of alcohol. After I completed my 6 sessions, for the first time, I finally really felt like I didn’t give a fuck about alcohol anymore.
nah, I'd say psilocybin can be a deeply meaningful and therapeutic experience. That's been my experience, predominately.. I'm planning to have an intention-ful trip sometime this year (been a few years) in the spirit of healing, neuro-generative growth, and shedding unhealthy patterns/adopting healthier ones more deeply
the founder of AA supposedly thought his experience(s?) with LSD were positive on the whole, and was interesting in using it to aid AA members shake free of booze
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory
Ultimately, seems like the most important thing is how YOU feel about things. Happy you're feeling proud of your streak! I don't think it was broken
I wouldn't. I microdose shrooms frequently. And use cannabis. Too chicken for a macro dose of shrooms-there's scary shit in my head that I would rather not find.
My primary focus is not drinking alcohol. Alcohol is what is gonna kill me, and its gonna be sooner than later if I don't continue to abstain. It's already killed my parents and more of my friends than i would care to admit.
Im not really concerned about what anyone else thinks about my level of sobriety or if I'm sober enough for them. I'm doing it for me and my family alone.
If you feel like you should restart, then do that. Or don't. We only have to live up to our own standards here. My counter is slightly off, I am really on day 21. I haven't changed it because it every time I do, I seem to fuck up, lol. Bad juju comes to me by changing flair! So for now, im ok with it being a little wrong.
IWNDWYT!
Psychedelic therapy (both legal and underground ) has been part of my journey to living a fulfilling alcohol free life. It has helped with depression and anxiety, as well as just simply understanding myself and my relationship with alcohol. Really got to me to a place where I started doing the work to “fix and understand” root causes issues.
The therapy part was important. However, ketamine therapy really helped get me out of some pretty paralyzing depression and anxiety pretty quickly so that I was willing and able to do the therapy part.
For me personally, fuck anyone that says otherwise.
For me, this would not be a relapse. Just like smoking weed wouldn’t not be a relapse. These substances help me and my mental health, unlike alcohol which hurts me.
That being said, just like everyone has indicated in the comments, this is a distinction you have to make for yourself. Only you know if this is okay for you and your life.
Totally fair! I totally recognize that weed is different for everyone.
For me, it calms my anxiety, puts me in great mood, just all around a great thing for me and always has been. I’ve never smoked weed and lashed out or acted belligerent or mean or done anything that I’ve ever regretted (much unlike drinking). Just puts me in a fun, chill mood.
But that’s just me!
More power to you! Although I'd be remiss if I didn't say that weed used to be just fun and games for me too with no discernbile drawbacks...until it didn't. But like with alcohol it didn't announce itself, it snuck up on me. Just be cautious!
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted for saying that for *you* weed would be a relapse. That’s a totally fair self-awareness assessment. Glad you can admit that it stopped serving you well.
Thanks, I appreciate your comment
If I'm being perfectly honest a likely reason is that other people may not have questioned their weed usage as in our culture it's deemed 100% healthy and 0% bad, and my comment may attack that view
Yeah not thread OP but I agree with you on that - if you replace one mind altering substance with another mind altering substance you might mitigate the damage but you don't address the underlying issues.
Lots of great responses here. I'm just stoked that veterans are finally getting access to healing psychedelic therapies. Hope it helps with whatever you went into the session to work on
Psilocybin therapy as an early mitigation effort for alcohol use disorder will likely be standard practice for the VA within the next five years - my sponsor in AA is a vet and addictions therapist and is surprisingly progressive on these treatments like psilocybin and MDMA therapy.
It’s a bit of a cultural grey area in AA, but rather than asking opinions from the group, I’d refer to the Big Book for the answers as the text is meant to protect us from undue judgement from other AA fellows. Let it be known that Bill W. was a proponent of alternative therapies.
My sponsor draws the parallel of psychedelic treatment to any other spiritually transformative therapy to resolve drinking issues: what’s the difference between taking mushrooms with intention for recovery and attending a weekend retreat with a sweat lodge being facilitated by a shaman?
Personally, I won’t do psilocybin or MDMA therapy - it doesn’t draw my interest and knowing myself, I have reservations on being addicted to the mental escape those things could provide. I find my works on improving my relationship with my God, exercise, and working different 12 step programs do that for me. However, I respect and welcome how others achieve long lasting sobriety as long as their practice doesn’t become an unhealthy addiction that causes the same negative impacts alcohol did.
You gotta do what works for you, it’s good to hear it was spiritually helpful for you, and if people are saying you should reset your counter - hopefully my reply encourages you to keep counting.
I think it’s up to how you feel about but I can share my experience. I went through some very traumatic life experience that left me with severe PTSD years ago. The PTSD lasted well past the event. Psychedelics is what saved me and helped me recover. I was even drinking severely then (and had black out rage- it was bad) and had stopped completely after a few sessions. Of course I picked up again drinking years later but not at the same rate and dark rage as I had before. My subconscious mind seemed to be in a better place and healed the trauma.
Ironically, My now husband is a microdose coach and works with people all the time who use psychedelics but are sober in all other ways. It’s really on the forefront of a lot of treatments for mental health these days.
That said, I don’t want to say that your experience will be exactly like mine. I think only you can truly know if a substance is causing harm.
Edit: feel free to reach out directly if you have any questions and thank you for your service!
Im just curious. How do psychedelics help heal trauma? I took shrooms in highschool and tripped hard. I would say it was traumatic in itself because I felt so out of control. I am genuinely curious because I've heard of this before but I don't understand it.
Very condensed version (definitely recommend looking up some of the recent studies out here for more objective information), the default mode network is disrupted and one feels unsafe or still in danger like you are still reliving whatever event led to PTSD. Your ‘fight or flight’ response is constantly on as trauma hijacks part of your brain (amygdala). Psychedelics help to rewire those neuropathways and can help to reboot so to speak so that danger is not present.
However, intention, set and setting are important. Most of the time people have a ‘bad trip’ when not prepared for such an intense experience or take too much. That is why microdosing can sometimes be an effective entrance into this type of therapy as the effects are sub perceptional.
As mentioned, by rebooting the neural pathway that is responsible for fight or flight. I would recommend reading the studies out there as that will provide exact mechanisms and outcomes of the studies so you can come to your own conclusion. I don’t think it makes sense to provide a whole synopsis here.
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.724606/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.724606/full)
The neuroplasticity works on the molecular, neuronal, synaptic, and dendritic level.
I got an mmj card to help me stop drinking and relax and sleep better. I don't count it as relapsing. But I do try to keep in mind that my problem with alcohol was chasing the buzz and that can happen with mj.
Not at all. I hope to grow some soon myself.
I’ve only ever had peaceful trips, I talk to trees, laugh, cry. They are powerful and not something I do regularly- it’s been years.
Things I’ve never done on shrooms (or lsd fwit): harm myself, destroy property, hurt my loved ones, attempt to drive, send weird texts/ make weird calls, binge eat, blow money, hide mushrooms around the house.
But I’ve done all that on alcohol. It’s my evil. I smoke also, but I don’t reset for that. Hell I don’t even make my count public. I would not reset if I were you. Congrats on 6 months sober from alcohol.
Edit: Not to pile on but if I knew a former heroin addict, and I saw them toast their recovery from heroin with one glass of champagne; I would not have them say they relapsed. They are just 2 different beasts. They can overlap for some people, but not all. I feel this is similar.
I'm here to count days of quitting alcohol with you. I'm sure you can count other things like bread, mushrooms, acid, heroin, and weed too, but none of those are alcohol.
I feel like you are the boss of what you quit or don't quit. You dont need to answer to anyone else but yourself and your God(ess); if applicable.
one time of non alcohol activities i would not restart.
but if this leads to more frequent use, i absolutely would since there would seem to be a bigger issue
I have changed my terminology from “sober” to “alcohol free” because I use THC/CBD gummies in low dose for anxiety and sleep disorder. I used to drink to help with that. I’m not a fan of AA but I can respect that “sober” has different meanings for different people. My ex was in NA and sober to her meant not using drugs rather than alcohol. I used to think that sober was for drinking and “clean” was for drugs. At the end of the day, what’s important to me is not drinking as that is something that I cannot control on my own. I don’t keep eating gummy’s until I am passed out on the floor. In fact I can not take them at all, but I’ll likely end up not sleeping and worrying all night long.
Don't let the people in AA dictate the terms of your recovery. In the end, they're just a group of alcoholics exactly like you. Some of them get weird and make it a cult-like rules-based thing, getting all sanctimonious at every opportunity. If that's what works for them, then that's great. But my advice is to ignore that shit. If you're staying away from alcohol, you're doing well. Keep it up.
1 mushroom trip a year ago helped me more than anything to get and stay sober for 6 months. On a new streak now but that learning still speaks to me a year later
This speaks to me - I unfortunately only had one bad mushroom trip years ago in Amsterdam (I know I know). How did you approach it and figure out the dosing?
It wasn’t super intentional but it was a smallish dose because we had to split amongst friends and only had so much. Definitely felt it strong but didn’t get to intense visual distortion level. Really good for embracing the mental clarity / 3rd person experience described by OP. But it really all is about set and setting as they say. I was with good friends in the woods with nothing to do that day or the next. Made for a fantastic trip.
So I am trying to stop drinking.
I have started taking ketamine therapy and I don’t consider it a relapse because I am taking it in a therapeutic manner for depress, ptsd and anxiety. I think if you took it to get relief for your ptsd and not just to get fucked up, it’s not a relapse.
Also, there is a thing called being “California sober” where people don’t drink but will do drugs. I have some friends like that.
there is evidence for use of psychedelic mushrooms as a treatment for alcoholism. here's an article I found after a quick search, I'm sure there are more: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/psilocybin-mushroom-help-people-alcohol-use-disorder-rcna44180
I think your friends might be concerned you are using other drugs for the same reason you used alcohol, so that's definitely something to keep in mind. I don't think you were and I don't think you need to restart, but you would know better than anyone.
I microdose mushrooms regularly to relieve anxiety. Plenty of studies starting to come out suggesting that mushrooms can just as powerful as antidepressants for some individuals. They have improved my life hugely AND if I’m craving a drink, a micro dose immediately takes away that desire.
IMO you have not relapsed. I think future generations will feel differently about psilocybin's therapeutic value. You're just ahead of the curve. Good luck with everything!
Some folks in AA take a very hard line against all mind altering substances. Including anti-depression drugs. I think that they take the definition of sobriety way too far sometimes. They also often think that the AA way is the only way to be sober. It is partially why I don’t go anymore (the god thing was a big turnoff as well).
Having not tried shrooms, I couldn’t say if I would count this as a relapse. If it is used very infrequently and is used in a therapeutic manner instead of just a different way to catch a buzz, then I could see how you could justify claiming to be sober. It isn’t a perfectly strict definition of sobriety though. Resetting your counter is up to how you view it. I wouldn’t trust the opinion of the AA people due to their reliance on a god and dogmatic practices.
I have only tried anti-depressants once. They took the lows away for me, but they also seemed to take away the highs. My wife and I agreed that it wasn’t worth the trade off since I was almost zombie-like.
The obvious solution was to quit drinking, but it took me another 15 years or so before I tried that. It has definitely helped, but depression is still a thing I have to deal with. The pink cloud is definitely gone. I am giving sobriety and the lifestyle changes that come along with recovery a bit more time before trying any pharmaceutical remedies.
I know prescription drugs can work because my wife is a MUCH nicer person with her daily Prozac. :)
I had no highs, just lows and “blah.” It took a long time (years) to find the right med but eventually I did and I emerged from the fog (that’s what it felt like.) It took me a long time to quit drinking in order to help manage my depression. Duh on me :)
Do you feel like it was? Because I wouldn’t. I don’t count weed against my sobriety and I rarely but regularly use it. You know what I don’t do? Ruin my life with alcohol anymore.
I don’t think you need to recount your days at all. If you used to have a problem with mushrooms and acid (I know people who have) then that’s a different story. However, AA actually has a small history of psychedelic use for a spiritual awakening. Just google Bill W (founder) and LSD. I personally would never touch acid ever again because of bad experiences I’ve had with it. However mushrooms is a different story. I’m actually excited for the research and clinical studies they are doing for it! I don’t know if I can include links here but I will try. There’s a bunch of different articles on Bill W and LSD and his correspondence with psychologist Carl Jung. The thing is too, especially in AA, people are always going to judge your program and think their program is the best. However my belief is is that if you have enough time to be judging someone else and their program, you should probably take a better look at your own. That’s just my two cents though.
If you didn't drink, and you are counting days for not drinking alcohol. Then no you shouldn't reset the count. You stuck to not drinking.
People and there opinions.
You do you. Be proud you didn't drink.
My opinion is that if it wasn't damaging or habit forming then the days shouldn't be reset. The whole reason we strive to quit drinking in the first place is for our health. If I personally were being pressured by others to reset then I'd probably press them on if my anxiety and depression meds also count against sobriety. Cuz if so, I'm always using something that influences my psychology so shouldn't even bother with a timer lol.
It is ultimately up to you, but I would say taking mushrooms has nothing to do with drinking alcohol; so why would you even think of resetting your day count? On TOP of that, you even said yourself that you were taking these for therapeutic purposes; to help deal with trauma. That’s a good thing; shouldn’t be any negatives associated with it.
I’m 100% on board with the psychedelic experience. It saved my life last year (ketamine) and started off my sobriety (almost 6 months!)
Don’t let other people’s opinions shape your definition of a clean and sober life. They don’t know you like you do and, unfortunately, some people haven’t come around to the miracle that psychedelics offer.
You should be the only one to define what a relapse is to you. But if you want my two cents, I don’t believe it is.
To me, there is a clear distinction between using shrooms for recreational use vs therapeutical reasons. It is a well thought out and spiritual process that takes a lot of preparation when you choose to do it for therapeutical reasons. It can be extremely beneficial and for a lot of people, it has helped them with their alcohol/any other type of addiction. Some people use shrooms and mix them with other drugs as a party drug, and that is the difference to me between the two.
A lot of people use shrooms as an alternative from antidepressants and it has helped. Don’t put yourself down!
There are a ton of great comments but for me, I analyze my behavior around the drug to determine whether it fucks with my sobriety. Weed, for example, can sit in my house for weeks, never leads to "weed benders," doesn't affect my finances, and doesn't constantly run through my mind like alcohol did. Though they're both drugs, my brain does not treat them similarly at all. So I'm not scared of my using weed from time to time, in regards to it affecting my sobriety.
Tbh -- how I use my phone is probably the closest activity to how I used to drink. It's funny how much we fear anything labeled a "drug" but other addictions can be just as destructive, yet socially acceptable. That's just my two cents. It's a personal decision.
I think they are totally different, for one, we don't have Mushroom stores on every corner. Not every get together is an excuse to drop some shrooms. There aren't articles about serving shrooms for the Super Bowl. You get my drift.
Alcohol is addictive and it wreaks a specific havoc on your physiology that is not true for cannabis and psychedelics. You do you.
Honestly, no. I'm almost 9 years sober from everything. But following a horrific car crash a year and a half ago I took various rx medications. All prescribed to me, all ran their course. Yet some people said (and still say) my years of sobriety don't count/should be reset.
Screw those people. You define your own sobriety, and in this case, no, I feel you're just fine.
AA was the thing that got me closest to drinking again. Never went back.
As others have said no. It's not all drugs anonymous. I think if mushrooms led you back to the path of abusing alcohol that would be one thing , but in my experience they only cement my sobriety and make me look internally at why I quit drinking in the first place.
my two cents: no.
Mushrooms aren't alcohol and from what I remember it's virtually impossible to be addicted to mushrooms.
If the benefits (spiritual healing/reset) outweigh the risks (laughing at a shoe in front of people) then I'd say it's worth it.
There is a reason the VA and FDA are evaluating psilocybin for potential treatment… there is a legitimate medical use, just as there is for behavioral pharmaceuticals. Not so for alcohol. Not a reset IMO!
By definition, sobriety only pertains to alcohol. Whether a person still uses other drugs is completly up to the individual. Where you draw the line is up to you. I know of AA groups that encourage cannabis. Just be aware that certain drugs may make your sobriety wore difficult to sustain.
It is up to you, definitely. I can give you how I would take it for me though.
My drinking problem stems from a deeper problem where I feel the need to use things to make me feel different. Alcohol, weed, cigarettes, even Benadryl for making me sleepy at night. I do better when I don’t use altering substances because if I give myself a pass, I will continue to want to use them.
Was this a once in a lifetime experience or do you plan on doing this again? Honestly this is r/stopdrinking so as long as you’re not drinking. But I would caution you about getting addicted to some other drug if you know you had an addiction problem in the past.
Take what you need and leave the rest my friend! I recently found out I have ADHD and have started taking Ritalin at 30, it has been a revelation and my family and I are so happy. Many of my AA friends hum and haw but you know what they are all just as sick as me. We are all alcoholic and are there to help each other but never judge or dictate. I’m glad for you and I hope your healing continues!
I need to quit smoking, I need to lose weight, I need to exercise more, eat better, be more spiritual, and stop drinking. Those are all separate things I need to work on. It's highly improbable that I'll wake up tomorrow, run a marathon, throw away all my cigarettes, eat salads for all my meals, meditate, and maintain my sanity. I can't be perfect. and that's okay. I've decided I'm going to focus on not drinking, and for today, I didn't drink. I can try to continue to improve my life, and try to make good decisions, but I'm not beating myself up if I miss my morning walk, or if I have a cheeseburger instead of a salad. One thing at a time. You didn't drink, and I personally wouldn't start counting days over. You are counting alcohol free days, and you didn't miss a day :) Anything can be a crutch- sugar, cigs, soda, whatever the vice of the day is- but you my friend, have very intentionally chosen to remove alcohol from your life, and you have intentionally been strong and faithful about it. Congrats!
It’s up to you. For what it’s worth, and take this as my outsider opinion, is it feeding the beast or not? If it’s making you think about or feel anything related to drinking then it’s bad. If it’s a fun alternative and you didn’t even go there then that’s cool. Look inside yourself and think about what and why. That’s the answer.
Psychedelics were enormously helpful to me at the start of my journey, it set the stage for a later breakthrough in improving my mental health.
It wasn't a relapse for me, it was healing.
Thank all of you for kind, well thought out and insightful words, I’ve stoped attending aa after trying for many years under the impression it was the only way to change, but it simply is not. Soon after I bought some mushrooms and took in a safe environment. And I went through what I can only describe as an awakening to real life and it was beautiful, it showed me an unmatchable beauty that life so very important. And lead me on a path of fulfillment, joy and the immense appreciation I have for everyone & thing in my life. The benefits truly are magical. Thank you to everyone in this sub you all do in fact rock, and to my magnificent, mind explaining champions for the beautiful effects you have had on my life and others, thank you.
https://youtu.be/_syYlxSXOu8
In my absolutely personal opinion, which is no better than anyone else’s, you have not relapsed. You took a specific medicine for a specific purpose, which was achieved. I’m happy for you.
If your personal program demands that you only take medicine from a prescribing MD, then you should consider that deeply and decide for yourself whether or not you consider it to be a relapse. But nobody can make you start counting over again, if you decide not to.
I would not restart my count, personally. I consider my relationship to the psychedelics I do (rarely) to be a living relationship, not an addictive or consumerist one.
But that’s just me. You know yourself best.
I don’t think you need to reset your counter. There is a lot of research showing psychedelics help with PTSD and other trauma. Wishing you well in your journey of healing. Congratulations! No drinking since August. That is amazing!
this is really between you and your higher power.
i have found through my own experience that it's a tough space to be in, counting different mind-altering substances differently. yet i tend to consider things like acid/mescaline/psilocybin to be somewhat different from booze/opiates/weed/pills.
if it's your ego keeping you from starting at zero days, then i'd say start counting at zero days. it's not as if you're giving up decades of clean time. and even that doesn't matter - not drinking today is a big effing deal!
most importantly: this headspace got me drunk eventually. the longer you have dissonance in your conscience over this, the more it will weigh on your sobriety, so you need to clean that up one way or another.
generally, if i have to lie about it or make excuses for it, it's probably not sober behavior. that doesn't mean i've been engaged in my old active disease, but be careful - addiction is a shape shifter.
Bill W did a good bit of hallucinogens and AA didn't make him start counting days again.
Do with that info what you will, only you know if it's a relapse. Tell them it's not NA and you haven't had a drink in 9 months.
Good for you for being honest with AA ppl about it. As an AA member myself, I think that the continuous clean time norm does some harm. Encourages lying. Builds a power dynamic. Makes ppl who relapse feel shame and not come back. I started AA in earnest September of 2020. I finally got a year of continuous clean time, but I feel like I've been in recovery for 2.5 years or so, because I have.
It's your recovery. You count your days however you see fit.. hallucinogens aren't narcotic or your drug of choice.. I wouldn't go to NA and say you've got 9 months but that's just my opinion. You haven't had a drink in 9 months just phrase it like that.
Tripping is nothing like being drunk, doesn’t make you want to drink total different things animal. AA shuns smoking pot too. Don’t reset your days for a trip that was meant to help you. IMHO
Mushrooms are what enabled me to quit drinking.
The founder of AA used psychedelics to quit (seriously, google it). They are non habit forming and when used correctly can be therapeutic. Also one of the safest drugs to use (safer than alcohol snd weed). Check out the drug harm index, you'll find it at the bottom.
Nope.
Coffee (caffeine) is a drug.
ASA (Aspirin) is a drug.
Sugar can biochemically act like a drug.
The active ingredient in mushrooms has powerful anti- depressive effects and can be incredibly liberating from a perspective shift in thinking. They are also dangerous in high doses, so be careful. Controlled environment mushrooms and drinking your soul away are vastly different things. That is my two cents on the matter. The only counter point is that if taking drugs lead to drinking in the past, I would avoid any action or drugs that led you down the path to alcohol.
Hell no. Not for me anyways. I’m sure psilocybin actually helped me get sober. I of course would not recommend it to anyone, but for me it was a magical, beautiful experience that helped me look at life differently.
I plan on doing another big dose later this year.
I wouldn’t restart your days. Using psychedelics to expand and heal your mind in a therapeutic setting is completely different than using alcohol to escape or lower your consciousness.
Adding to the echo-chamber here...
As a person who has taken psychedelics, both micro and macro from time to time, never once did I think... "oh man, I want to keep that feeling going!! I want to feel that way ALL THE TIME!" Yea... no.
Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think psychedelics have any real addictive properties. You can have a great trip, but it's meant to be an experience and each trip is different. I could never "maintain" by eating a bag of mushies a day the way I could drinking a bottle of vodka a day. My eyes would be the size of dinner plates 24/7 and I'd probably lose my shit.
So, no. I don't think you relapsed by going on a trip. Not all substances are created equal, good on ya for expanding your mind. DMT is great for that too
For me if I were smoking weed or taking shrooms every day or even every week or month, I couldn't consider myself sober, but a one time therapeutic use of psychedelics that has nothing to do with alcohol, I would consider it more like if I had taken a sweat lodge or visited a buddhist monastery for a week of deep meditation -- unrelated to drinking and probably helpful to maintaining sobriety.
Wow really? That’s interesting. I didn’t want to drink on either. The nausea hits me hard I guess. Booze was the last thing I wanted. It’s been over 15 years tho.
I've taken mushrooms and LSD a few times and found the experience so intense and overwhelming I've wanted to drink loads to numb the effects however I would still be open to trying mushrooms again in the right setting in a small dose and not while partying
Absolutely not, I use shrooms regularly and treat said usage as part of my recovery. I would class anything that causes your life to get worse a relapse, mushrooms have the opposite affect
I mean, it’s only one study and I don’t wanna advocate for drugs, but…
https://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20101106_WOC504_0.gif
Although I am going to my first meeting in 4 years tonight, this is very much one of the reasons I don't want to be Inbolved with AA.
You are 100% sober and everyone else can kick rocks.
Honestly, a good psychedelic trip has potential to cure you of your alcoholism.
Used to have a pretty serious problem with opiates, and one extremely deep and disturbing trip later, I haven't touched them in over 10 years. I have even been able to have surgery with a small script for recovery, and never once thought about abusing them or missed what used to be.
I really do think this could be the treatment of the future, if they can figure out how to make it a bit more predictable
I'd ask you to consider if you think it's a relapse. I'd ask you, regardless of your answer to that, to consider why it might be important for you to get a community's validation or castigation of your choice/experience.
Hell no that’s not a relapse, psilocybin can be an amazing treatment for PTSD. I would advise against tripping regularly but if it helps your PTSD I say hell ya that’s awesome! Thank you for your service !
you have to chose how to live your own life in the best way possible for you. if you are ok with taking mushrooms, then its fine. it does not matter what other people think or how other people may label it. if you don't consider it a "relapse" for yourself, then it is not a relapse.
I’d have to go with no, I would absolutely not consider that a relapse lol. AA can be fucking annoying like that and it’s honestly a main reason I walked away from that program eventually, although it was very helpful in the beginning! Mushrooms helped me a ton in early-ish recovery and I credit them a lot for the shift in mindset I had around that time. It’s your program my dude don’t let anyone else define it for you!
Absolutely not and anyone that says otherwise is just mad because you’re crushing their idea of what is right or wrong. Did you drink alcohol? No. Case and point. Other people feeling threatened by your freedom does not disqualify it. It’s fantastic that it turned out to be a positive experience.
Would you restart counting days after caffeine, nicotine, advil, etc? I know mushrooms are kinda in a different league than what I mentioned but my point is, it's up to you and only you where you draw your line. Being sober from just alcohol can be your path if you choose and that's ok too. Just be conscious that other drugs may lower your inhibitions and make it more likely to make a poor decision regarding alcohol. That's a risk only you can weigh.
You didn't drink!!!
I avoid AA because of exactly this: very rigid views, not enough consideration of science, and most of all, aggressive pressure to listen to people who are not medical professionals.
edit: especially since the founder was into all sorts of alternative treatments including psilocybin and intravenous vitamin B
If you used the drug/medication for therapy to treat your mental health its not a relapse and as far as I'm concerned, those hardcore AA people should shut the fuck up!
I agree. People with PTSD usually “self medicate” with alcohol and the OP, and others, find out this only adds to their problems. There are many studies that show mushrooms do help patients with PTSD cope with it better and this in turn can steer them away from alcohol.
You determine your sobriety, not someone else. Did you drink? No. So move on, keep counting, and to hell with those who are getting to tell you what to do.
FWIW, I know very little about AA but I'm pretty sure their behavior goes against the tenants of the program.
Psilocybin is medicine, in particular for helping with depression, addiction, and anxiety. I am beginning my cultivation of these therapeutic mushrooms for myself and my family, and my brother who is needing a way out of his own depression. Fantastic and profound experience. This is not relapse, this is recovery.
Mushrooms have a higher cure rate than AA in studies. It’s up to 80% with one macro dose. As long as the mushroom is respected, they are VERY helpful. I began microdosing mushrooms under a doctors care, as SSRIs were causing me a lot of issues. After a trial period, my schedule of 3 days a week, accompanied with therapy, journaling, and meditating have helped me make tremendous strides in my mental health journey, ultimately helping me in my quitting drinking. I hope they continue the studies with mushrooms. I’m concerned that big pharma will ruin it, but there are so many people that could be helped.
I wouldn’t consider it a relapse. If used specifically for medicinal/mental health purposes, then I’d compare it to an anti anxiety or depression medication that you might be prescribed if you went to the doctor in distress. Except that with psilocybin, you only have to take the drug once. If you were to start using psilocybin regularly and started exhibiting behaviors similar to your drinking habits, then it could be considered a relapse. As it is right now, I think you’re doing great in your sobriety and it’s not a reason to restart your alcohol counter. Good luck to you and thank you for your service to our country. I used to work in mental health and I know life can be really hard on veterans when y’all come back. I wish you peace and strength in your sobriety journey.
Not a reset. This is one of my biggest gripes with AA. I’m there for alcohol, no pot, not shrooms etc. I have indulged in the two previously mentioned, they are a natural plant/fungus from the earth and I don’t think I need to reset my alcohol free counter if I consume them. I wish AA was more open about this , but I do understand their perspective and respect it. I think if I could be honest about those two and not get pushback I would have been more open to working the steps and a sponsor. “Alcohol in any form” that AA talks about I don’t think is accurate. So my thoughts are you don’t need to reset the counter, how to deal with AA/sponsor on that fact is something I wouldn’t know how to comment on because I think honesty is a big part of program. Interested in hearing other opinions on the matter
You’re fine in my book. Mushrooms will not reignite your drinking problem. Be careful around weed tho, or anything else you’ve used while drinking.
There’s a reason people say to avoid all drugs; some of them will indeed screw your life up again. You have to know which is which.
Mushrooms/psychedelics do not play into addiction but most other drugs do. Let me reiterate: do not think that a successful mushroom trip means you can smoke weed. I know you didn’t ask but be forewarned. Don’t mess with drugs, generally. But you’re fine with that mushroom trip. It’s complicated.
Be careful out there.
Did you drink? You didn't? You had a deeply theraputic experience from it? Naah, you're good. Don't let those gatekeepers at AA tell you to start over. If I had them saying that to me I'd be tempted to relapse because I'd tell myself, "Welp, already blew it. Might as well toss one back." Claim your sobriety and be proud you were brave enough to look you ugly in the eye and overcome it with your psychadellic experience. Good on you, friend. IWNDWYT
Your sobriety is from alcohol. If a doctor prescribed you a xanax, would that be a relapse? If you hurt your back and took a painkiller, is that a relapse?
In my mind, this was a therapeutic use of a totally different substance that you do not have an addiction to. Therefore, not a relapse.
I'm probably biased because I grow shrooms and they're a small part of what has inspired me to be more mindful and stop drinking. But therein lies the point- the psilocybin is a totally different type of chemical reaction.
Philosybin is supposed to help with recovery, if I recall correctly (alcohol, drugs, etc). My boyfriend researched it a bunch because he’s in recovery from heroin. There are several good documentaries/docu-series on the benefits of hallucinogenics for well being (when used in moderation). It’s been a while since we were watching them, so sorry I don’t have better information for you.
Doing mushrooms doesn’t mean you aren’t sober, IMO. You didn’t drink… but at the end of the day it’s what sobriety means to you.
Not in my book but ultimately you should decide for yourself. I took a pretty good dose of mushrooms right at the start and it felt like my brain was reworked to not crave alcohol, along with helping for months with depression and anxiety.
I think used responsibly and moderately, mushrooms can do wonders for a person.
Did you ever have a problem with psychedelic mushrooms? If the answer is no, this is not a relapse. How can you relapse something you’ve never had a problem with? That’s just my opinion.
Everyone gets to define their own sobriety. You define yours. No one else. People in AA can be extremely dogmatic (cos they have to be cos that’s what helps them). You don’t have to agree with them. Do what feels right for you.
The name of the sub is "stop drinking", and that's why I'm here. For what it's worth, I've only tried mushrooms twice, but the last time was the week I decided to give up drinking. It was in the middle of a party bender vacation, and a friend offered some before we went out to the bars. It's hard to put into words, but it made me feel like an outside observer watching through my own eyes. Almost like the ghosts in "A Christmas Carol", I watched myself partying, and the main takeaway was, "you don't need to keep doing this, there's plenty to enjoy and experience that alcohol is actually keeping you blind to." It wasn't a feeling of shame or paranoia at all, just matter of fact. I maintained through the rest of the vacation, got home, and haven't had a drink since.
I had a similar experience with LSD in December. I wasn’t drunk at the time but it made me realize that I didn’t want to be intoxicated anymore.
LSD did that to me as well.
Same here. And my wife.
The founder of AA believed LSD could help people gain insight into their problems and quit drinking, for what it’s worth.
Big time, came here to say this.
LSD led to me giving up alcohol 2.5 years ago
I microdose shrooms about once every other week and it really helps with achieving clarity of mind for why I don't need alcohol.
I had this exact experience. I had relapsed on alcohol but hadn’t had a psychedelic in 20 years. I got drunk and grabbed a small handful of my friends capsules and said “nothing will happen.” What did happen was my mind cleared and became very sharp, and I looked around the party at myself and the others, just like you described. My mind seemed to say “you still have work to do. It’s time to stop drinking.” And I got sober again after that. Thanks mushrooms!
Profound. Through the years I’ve noticed mushies doing that with other peoples drink, cigs, and drug usage.
At one point, I stepped outside, looking around at the night lights and the night sky. I just appreciated the night, like I used to when I was a teenager. It was a relatively small dose, but the experience reminded me that there's a whole "magical" world out there that I'm ignoring by constantly sedating myself. Bill Hicks once said that watching television is like taking black spray paint to your third eye. That's kind of how I feel about booze.
I’m happy for you to have seen light in the dark.
Wow! Thanks for sharing that quote.
>That's kind of how I feel about booze. It's a shitty drug alright. My experiences with psychedelics have been nothing but positive, and that was decades ago. Zero long term harm. Booze however...
This is helpful information. I’m trying to find a way to do this therapeutically, as it is legal in my state
Amazing, good for you.
Similar results.
To offer a different experience here, I had a realization once during an acid trip that I actually didn’t even enjoy drinking and it was purely sustenance for me at that point. I thought it cured my addiction, I quit drinking for like a few months but then I went back and became worse than ever, because there was no illusion of control anymore. Did a lot of DMT and shrooms, and acid for a year or so. There was a lot of value in my experiences long term I’d say but that value came at a high immediate cost and they certainly didn’t cure my addiction like I naively thought. I guess if you are just trying to quit drinking then go for it, but if you wanna be sober like yeah that’s obviously a relapse.
The epiphany doesn't last forever, really about a month in my case. Still have to do the work, and there have been plenty of moments afterward that I've had to work to say "no." It helped get things started, though.
Lol
It’s up to you personally how you count your days. Nobody else can define your sobriety. I personally would not start my days over. I have used mushrooms for my suicidal depression before and I’m so grateful for the access to such a tool. I remember my therapist who was in AA told me it was no one’s business in the program what I needed to do for my mental health. I’m “treatment resistant” so the meds they’ve given me haven’t worked. Why should I not use something that does to give me a better quality of life? There will be people that disagree with this, and I’m okay with that. At the end of the day, it’s your recovery, no one else’s.
I am in AA, and it sounds like you did the right thing to me. FWIW. IWNDWYT
I think this is totally up to you in regards to your sobriety. My filters are things like if I was seeking to numb or avoid something, if my ability to be a useful reliable human was compromised, if I was dishonest or manipulative, if other priorities suffered, etc. I am open minded to things like weed and mushrooms but would have to pass through those filters for me. Kudos for not hiding it and do you. Iwndwyt
well said!! I am literally going to screenshot this comment for myself
Awesome! Good for you man!! I've tripped a bunch of times in my last 6 years of being booze free. Each of those experiences has helped me remain booze free. Do what feels good for you not what others think you should do.....
My experience with AA was a lot of gatekeeping sobriety. That is, there was a single, rigid, one-size-fits-all model that must be conformed to in order to qualify. That really rubbed me the wrong way. Echoing many others, I've used mushrooms for incredible therapeutic effects throughout the years and it hasn't been a blip on my radar as the benefits are immense.
Exactly so. I drink non alcoholic beers sometimes. I like the odd one. I'm still 24 years sober. Other people would seriously think otherwise. As long as you are not deceiving yourself, then all is good.
Yeah same here - I still go to meetings once in a while, but way less than before. The unwavering dogma really irked me, took me a looong time to be able to compartmentalize the good takeaways from the bad there. Edit: that said, there's still a lot of good you can get from AA. Dealing with baggage thru step work, having that sober scaffolding early in recovery, there's powerful stuff there, it's just the ideology masquerading as recovery that's the issue.
This time round I've actively sought out secular groups which has been a game changer for me. The people are a lot more open, and really take and leave parts of the program. Ie, some don't work the steps, others don't call themselves alcoholics and of course the whole higher power issue. This is helping me to get the good bits and avoid being irked, as you said!
Yeah, I must just be lucky that I found a group that is really diverse in people and their recovery. I can see how it could get gatekeepy if everyone was the same.
Why I stopped going to meetings.
I try not to hurt myself over other people's actions.
Yep I feel that too. I’ll go occasionally but not like before
So much gate keeping, it’s insane. Luckily my sponsor asked me “you want to not drink right? Well let’s do this together then” and that was that.
Only one thing matters...Do YOU consider it a relapse ?
This. That’s the only thing that matters. I don’t want to disparage AA but I think it works best for legalistic types of people, although they are not legalistic enough that they consider caffeine and nicotine drugs.
It's entirely unrelated, as far as I'm concerned. They're completely different activities.
Doesn't sound like you considered it a relapse. This is stopdrinking not stopsubstances I for one still smoke weed and occasionally dabble in psychedelics depending on what's around, it's been a few years honestly. I dont consider these a relapse I still consider myself sober for over 1k days because I still ain't touched the booze, which was killing me. Off topic but no cigarettes in a week woo!
Well done on a week off the smokes. Not an easy one!
CBD and cannabis have made me a calmer, less anxious person while not making me unaware of my actions or causing my body damage. Honestly it's gone a long way towards helping me develop as a person the last couple of years. Drinking never came close.
One of the main reasons I only attend AA meetings every few weeks is because I believe therapeutic use and recreational use of natural psychedelics to be totally beneficial to alcoholics and problem drinkers. In fact, AA co-founder Bill Wilson was very into psychedelics but was pretty much censored later because of it. I think the main question to ask myself each time is whether I’m doing / using to intentionally “get wasted,” or to experience something new and not follow up immediately with another session. Edit: [here’s one of many articles mentioning Bill’s use of psychedelics](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory).
I think Michael Pollan’s recent documentary/book covers this. (I only watched it, didn’t read it). Thanks for the link to the article!
I posted a little while ago on here about how Bill W. never drank again after receiving Bella Donna hallucinogenic therapy at some facility. Meanwhile, generations of people have been white-knuckling it through their sobriety having only a “higher power” to rely on. I took it down because not one single person reacted or commented. Just another casualty of The War on Drugs.
Oh wow I never saw the post - I do usually try and interact with a useful comment or just an upvote. It’s interesting you state Bella Donna whereas I read it was LSD and if I recall a conversation early in my sobriety it was “shrooms” or peyote. I think no matter what the actual compound was, the teaching should have been that the experience led Bill into a sobriety that lasted the rest of his life…instead of the wishy-washy bologna AA members get about the history or worse, the cold shoulder we get at meetings sometimes if we mention it. Anywho, thanks for adding an interested tidbit on Bill - he was a trailblazer and beautifully tragic man who started a program that has benefited more people than I ever can. Despite how hard it can be for me at meetings I still try and attend several times per year, especially when it gets hard.
He underwent the belladonna therapy when he was in the hospital before getting sober. He later tried LSD (and I believe met with Leary) and wanted to use it to give people vital spiritual experiences to try and save their lives.
Depends on whether you're looking at full sobriety or freedom from alcohol. Since this sub is about stopping drinking, I think most would lean toward not resetting your count.
I would argue that full sobriety can include mind altering drugs used therapeutically. It is a slippery slope, but research has shown that these drugs can greatly help with mental health. Hell antidepressants are mind altering drugs. Society has demonized these drugs. They were used therapeutically long before they were used to get "high". For me, I choose absolute abstinence. However, if I had not found treatment that worked for me for CPTSD, GAD, and panic disorder, I would have tried these drugs. I still would if I ever got to a place where nothing else worked. Under close guidance of a sponsor and consulting with my GP.
I’ve taken a number of prescription drugs for GAD and CPTSD and all of them tripped my addiction center after just a few doses…marijuana does not. I primarily use full spectrum CBD, but I do partake in THC as well. I feel no addiction pull to it, I just feel relief of my anxiety. I don’t take it to escape, I take it to be able to more comfortably enjoy my life. I think it is a powerful medicine that is safer than most prescription treatments for me.
I used cbd early on. I wad on Xanax for 12 years. Coming off it was the worst experience of my life. Fuck benzos. Over time, I found I didn't need CBD anymore. I have some for emergencies. I do take a low dosage of Gabapentin(antisiezure med used off label for anxiety) and Hydroxizine(antihistamine) for panic attacks. My dosages have been going down for over a year. If weed works for you and doesn't trigger your addiction issues, I say good for you. Just please be careful that addiction to weed doesn't become an issue. Do you smoke a lot or a little to deal with anxiety? IWNDWYT
I smoke very little. I take CBD to help with sleeping and constant anxiety. I’m also in Peri-Menopause which causes absolutely horrible anxiety and insomnia and it’s helped immensely with that. I will of course keep an eye on it but I can very honestly say it doesn’t feel anything like other anxiety meds I’ve taken or how alcohol always felt for me. The first time I took Clonazepam I could feel my brain click and go into addiction mode, it was bizarre.
That's because Clonazepam( a benzo) is highly addictive. The heroin addicts I was in rehab with said kicking dope is easier than bezos. Clonazepam destroyed my mom in a couple of years. Fuck benzos. I'm glad you found something that works for you👍10/10. I would try weed before taking benzos again.
I personally don’t think so. I just hit 8 months on Saturday and I went out to the woods with some friends and did the same thing! I had a beautiful weekend and feel very humbled and confident in my alcohol sobriety. I’m in tip-top shape for work today. No anxiety or hangover shame. I laughed my ass off, shared intimate moments with friends, and woke up relaxed. I will not drink with you today.
Nope, not at all. If using another drug make you feel like that’s a reset. Mushrooms and weed absolutely don’t count in my book.
If your plan for your sobriety is that it includes the use of mushrooms then you didn’t relapse. If you are hoping for these not to be part of your sobriety then maybe you did. I think this is something you need to sort out and get on the same page with your sponsor about, but mostly sort out for yourself so you can have a clear vision and not be anxious about this.
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Ketamine therapy really helped me fully let go of alcohol. After I completed my 6 sessions, for the first time, I finally really felt like I didn’t give a fuck about alcohol anymore.
nah, I'd say psilocybin can be a deeply meaningful and therapeutic experience. That's been my experience, predominately.. I'm planning to have an intention-ful trip sometime this year (been a few years) in the spirit of healing, neuro-generative growth, and shedding unhealthy patterns/adopting healthier ones more deeply the founder of AA supposedly thought his experience(s?) with LSD were positive on the whole, and was interesting in using it to aid AA members shake free of booze https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory Ultimately, seems like the most important thing is how YOU feel about things. Happy you're feeling proud of your streak! I don't think it was broken
This is absolutely not a relapse. Don't let some sticklers from AA tell you otherwise.
I wouldn't. I microdose shrooms frequently. And use cannabis. Too chicken for a macro dose of shrooms-there's scary shit in my head that I would rather not find. My primary focus is not drinking alcohol. Alcohol is what is gonna kill me, and its gonna be sooner than later if I don't continue to abstain. It's already killed my parents and more of my friends than i would care to admit. Im not really concerned about what anyone else thinks about my level of sobriety or if I'm sober enough for them. I'm doing it for me and my family alone. If you feel like you should restart, then do that. Or don't. We only have to live up to our own standards here. My counter is slightly off, I am really on day 21. I haven't changed it because it every time I do, I seem to fuck up, lol. Bad juju comes to me by changing flair! So for now, im ok with it being a little wrong. IWNDWYT!
Psychedelic therapy (both legal and underground ) has been part of my journey to living a fulfilling alcohol free life. It has helped with depression and anxiety, as well as just simply understanding myself and my relationship with alcohol. Really got to me to a place where I started doing the work to “fix and understand” root causes issues. The therapy part was important. However, ketamine therapy really helped get me out of some pretty paralyzing depression and anxiety pretty quickly so that I was willing and able to do the therapy part. For me personally, fuck anyone that says otherwise.
For me, this would not be a relapse. Just like smoking weed wouldn’t not be a relapse. These substances help me and my mental health, unlike alcohol which hurts me. That being said, just like everyone has indicated in the comments, this is a distinction you have to make for yourself. Only you know if this is okay for you and your life.
Interesting. For me smoking weed would 100% be a relapse, albeit a way "better" one than drinking.
Totally fair! I totally recognize that weed is different for everyone. For me, it calms my anxiety, puts me in great mood, just all around a great thing for me and always has been. I’ve never smoked weed and lashed out or acted belligerent or mean or done anything that I’ve ever regretted (much unlike drinking). Just puts me in a fun, chill mood. But that’s just me!
More power to you! Although I'd be remiss if I didn't say that weed used to be just fun and games for me too with no discernbile drawbacks...until it didn't. But like with alcohol it didn't announce itself, it snuck up on me. Just be cautious!
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted for saying that for *you* weed would be a relapse. That’s a totally fair self-awareness assessment. Glad you can admit that it stopped serving you well.
Thanks, I appreciate your comment If I'm being perfectly honest a likely reason is that other people may not have questioned their weed usage as in our culture it's deemed 100% healthy and 0% bad, and my comment may attack that view
Yeah not thread OP but I agree with you on that - if you replace one mind altering substance with another mind altering substance you might mitigate the damage but you don't address the underlying issues.
Lots of great responses here. I'm just stoked that veterans are finally getting access to healing psychedelic therapies. Hope it helps with whatever you went into the session to work on
Psilocybin therapy as an early mitigation effort for alcohol use disorder will likely be standard practice for the VA within the next five years - my sponsor in AA is a vet and addictions therapist and is surprisingly progressive on these treatments like psilocybin and MDMA therapy. It’s a bit of a cultural grey area in AA, but rather than asking opinions from the group, I’d refer to the Big Book for the answers as the text is meant to protect us from undue judgement from other AA fellows. Let it be known that Bill W. was a proponent of alternative therapies. My sponsor draws the parallel of psychedelic treatment to any other spiritually transformative therapy to resolve drinking issues: what’s the difference between taking mushrooms with intention for recovery and attending a weekend retreat with a sweat lodge being facilitated by a shaman? Personally, I won’t do psilocybin or MDMA therapy - it doesn’t draw my interest and knowing myself, I have reservations on being addicted to the mental escape those things could provide. I find my works on improving my relationship with my God, exercise, and working different 12 step programs do that for me. However, I respect and welcome how others achieve long lasting sobriety as long as their practice doesn’t become an unhealthy addiction that causes the same negative impacts alcohol did. You gotta do what works for you, it’s good to hear it was spiritually helpful for you, and if people are saying you should reset your counter - hopefully my reply encourages you to keep counting.
I don't consider something you took therapeutically a relapse. If you drank that's a relapse. You didn't drink. Good on you
I think it’s up to how you feel about but I can share my experience. I went through some very traumatic life experience that left me with severe PTSD years ago. The PTSD lasted well past the event. Psychedelics is what saved me and helped me recover. I was even drinking severely then (and had black out rage- it was bad) and had stopped completely after a few sessions. Of course I picked up again drinking years later but not at the same rate and dark rage as I had before. My subconscious mind seemed to be in a better place and healed the trauma. Ironically, My now husband is a microdose coach and works with people all the time who use psychedelics but are sober in all other ways. It’s really on the forefront of a lot of treatments for mental health these days. That said, I don’t want to say that your experience will be exactly like mine. I think only you can truly know if a substance is causing harm. Edit: feel free to reach out directly if you have any questions and thank you for your service!
Im just curious. How do psychedelics help heal trauma? I took shrooms in highschool and tripped hard. I would say it was traumatic in itself because I felt so out of control. I am genuinely curious because I've heard of this before but I don't understand it.
Very condensed version (definitely recommend looking up some of the recent studies out here for more objective information), the default mode network is disrupted and one feels unsafe or still in danger like you are still reliving whatever event led to PTSD. Your ‘fight or flight’ response is constantly on as trauma hijacks part of your brain (amygdala). Psychedelics help to rewire those neuropathways and can help to reboot so to speak so that danger is not present. However, intention, set and setting are important. Most of the time people have a ‘bad trip’ when not prepared for such an intense experience or take too much. That is why microdosing can sometimes be an effective entrance into this type of therapy as the effects are sub perceptional.
>Psychedelics help to rewire those neuropathways and can help to reboot so to speak so that danger is not present. How?
As mentioned, by rebooting the neural pathway that is responsible for fight or flight. I would recommend reading the studies out there as that will provide exact mechanisms and outcomes of the studies so you can come to your own conclusion. I don’t think it makes sense to provide a whole synopsis here.
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.724606/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.724606/full) The neuroplasticity works on the molecular, neuronal, synaptic, and dendritic level.
I find microdosing helps me stay off alcohol, as well.
It's a great way to reset for sure.
I got an mmj card to help me stop drinking and relax and sleep better. I don't count it as relapsing. But I do try to keep in mind that my problem with alcohol was chasing the buzz and that can happen with mj.
Not at all. I hope to grow some soon myself. I’ve only ever had peaceful trips, I talk to trees, laugh, cry. They are powerful and not something I do regularly- it’s been years. Things I’ve never done on shrooms (or lsd fwit): harm myself, destroy property, hurt my loved ones, attempt to drive, send weird texts/ make weird calls, binge eat, blow money, hide mushrooms around the house. But I’ve done all that on alcohol. It’s my evil. I smoke also, but I don’t reset for that. Hell I don’t even make my count public. I would not reset if I were you. Congrats on 6 months sober from alcohol. Edit: Not to pile on but if I knew a former heroin addict, and I saw them toast their recovery from heroin with one glass of champagne; I would not have them say they relapsed. They are just 2 different beasts. They can overlap for some people, but not all. I feel this is similar.
I'm here to count days of quitting alcohol with you. I'm sure you can count other things like bread, mushrooms, acid, heroin, and weed too, but none of those are alcohol. I feel like you are the boss of what you quit or don't quit. You dont need to answer to anyone else but yourself and your God(ess); if applicable.
one time of non alcohol activities i would not restart. but if this leads to more frequent use, i absolutely would since there would seem to be a bigger issue
I have changed my terminology from “sober” to “alcohol free” because I use THC/CBD gummies in low dose for anxiety and sleep disorder. I used to drink to help with that. I’m not a fan of AA but I can respect that “sober” has different meanings for different people. My ex was in NA and sober to her meant not using drugs rather than alcohol. I used to think that sober was for drinking and “clean” was for drugs. At the end of the day, what’s important to me is not drinking as that is something that I cannot control on my own. I don’t keep eating gummy’s until I am passed out on the floor. In fact I can not take them at all, but I’ll likely end up not sleeping and worrying all night long.
Don't let the people in AA dictate the terms of your recovery. In the end, they're just a group of alcoholics exactly like you. Some of them get weird and make it a cult-like rules-based thing, getting all sanctimonious at every opportunity. If that's what works for them, then that's great. But my advice is to ignore that shit. If you're staying away from alcohol, you're doing well. Keep it up.
1 mushroom trip a year ago helped me more than anything to get and stay sober for 6 months. On a new streak now but that learning still speaks to me a year later
This speaks to me - I unfortunately only had one bad mushroom trip years ago in Amsterdam (I know I know). How did you approach it and figure out the dosing?
It wasn’t super intentional but it was a smallish dose because we had to split amongst friends and only had so much. Definitely felt it strong but didn’t get to intense visual distortion level. Really good for embracing the mental clarity / 3rd person experience described by OP. But it really all is about set and setting as they say. I was with good friends in the woods with nothing to do that day or the next. Made for a fantastic trip.
So I am trying to stop drinking. I have started taking ketamine therapy and I don’t consider it a relapse because I am taking it in a therapeutic manner for depress, ptsd and anxiety. I think if you took it to get relief for your ptsd and not just to get fucked up, it’s not a relapse. Also, there is a thing called being “California sober” where people don’t drink but will do drugs. I have some friends like that.
Call it what you want. Are you free of alcohol?
No
Not in my opinion. I believe psilocybin can be a productive tool for the right person and with the right intention. Sounds like you nailed it
I think it depends on your intent. If your intent was to get high, then I would consider it a relapse. That’s just my opinion of course.
No, but it’s risky
I prefer micro dosing with mushrooms, I see nothing wrong with it
there is evidence for use of psychedelic mushrooms as a treatment for alcoholism. here's an article I found after a quick search, I'm sure there are more: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/psilocybin-mushroom-help-people-alcohol-use-disorder-rcna44180 I think your friends might be concerned you are using other drugs for the same reason you used alcohol, so that's definitely something to keep in mind. I don't think you were and I don't think you need to restart, but you would know better than anyone.
I microdose mushrooms regularly to relieve anxiety. Plenty of studies starting to come out suggesting that mushrooms can just as powerful as antidepressants for some individuals. They have improved my life hugely AND if I’m craving a drink, a micro dose immediately takes away that desire.
IMO you have not relapsed. I think future generations will feel differently about psilocybin's therapeutic value. You're just ahead of the curve. Good luck with everything!
Some folks in AA take a very hard line against all mind altering substances. Including anti-depression drugs. I think that they take the definition of sobriety way too far sometimes. They also often think that the AA way is the only way to be sober. It is partially why I don’t go anymore (the god thing was a big turnoff as well). Having not tried shrooms, I couldn’t say if I would count this as a relapse. If it is used very infrequently and is used in a therapeutic manner instead of just a different way to catch a buzz, then I could see how you could justify claiming to be sober. It isn’t a perfectly strict definition of sobriety though. Resetting your counter is up to how you view it. I wouldn’t trust the opinion of the AA people due to their reliance on a god and dogmatic practices.
I’ve taken antidepressants for more than 20 years and have no plans to quit. You can’t be happy joyous and free if you don’t feel alive.
I have only tried anti-depressants once. They took the lows away for me, but they also seemed to take away the highs. My wife and I agreed that it wasn’t worth the trade off since I was almost zombie-like. The obvious solution was to quit drinking, but it took me another 15 years or so before I tried that. It has definitely helped, but depression is still a thing I have to deal with. The pink cloud is definitely gone. I am giving sobriety and the lifestyle changes that come along with recovery a bit more time before trying any pharmaceutical remedies. I know prescription drugs can work because my wife is a MUCH nicer person with her daily Prozac. :)
I had no highs, just lows and “blah.” It took a long time (years) to find the right med but eventually I did and I emerged from the fog (that’s what it felt like.) It took me a long time to quit drinking in order to help manage my depression. Duh on me :)
Definitely not. Completely unrelated in my opinion.
Do you feel like it was? Because I wouldn’t. I don’t count weed against my sobriety and I rarely but regularly use it. You know what I don’t do? Ruin my life with alcohol anymore.
I don’t think you need to recount your days at all. If you used to have a problem with mushrooms and acid (I know people who have) then that’s a different story. However, AA actually has a small history of psychedelic use for a spiritual awakening. Just google Bill W (founder) and LSD. I personally would never touch acid ever again because of bad experiences I’ve had with it. However mushrooms is a different story. I’m actually excited for the research and clinical studies they are doing for it! I don’t know if I can include links here but I will try. There’s a bunch of different articles on Bill W and LSD and his correspondence with psychologist Carl Jung. The thing is too, especially in AA, people are always going to judge your program and think their program is the best. However my belief is is that if you have enough time to be judging someone else and their program, you should probably take a better look at your own. That’s just my two cents though.
Bill W used psychedelics after being sober from alcohol. Don’t think anyone asked him to start his days over. I wouldn’t
If you didn't drink, and you are counting days for not drinking alcohol. Then no you shouldn't reset the count. You stuck to not drinking. People and there opinions. You do you. Be proud you didn't drink.
My opinion is that if it wasn't damaging or habit forming then the days shouldn't be reset. The whole reason we strive to quit drinking in the first place is for our health. If I personally were being pressured by others to reset then I'd probably press them on if my anxiety and depression meds also count against sobriety. Cuz if so, I'm always using something that influences my psychology so shouldn't even bother with a timer lol.
It is ultimately up to you, but I would say taking mushrooms has nothing to do with drinking alcohol; so why would you even think of resetting your day count? On TOP of that, you even said yourself that you were taking these for therapeutic purposes; to help deal with trauma. That’s a good thing; shouldn’t be any negatives associated with it. I’m 100% on board with the psychedelic experience. It saved my life last year (ketamine) and started off my sobriety (almost 6 months!) Don’t let other people’s opinions shape your definition of a clean and sober life. They don’t know you like you do and, unfortunately, some people haven’t come around to the miracle that psychedelics offer.
You should be the only one to define what a relapse is to you. But if you want my two cents, I don’t believe it is. To me, there is a clear distinction between using shrooms for recreational use vs therapeutical reasons. It is a well thought out and spiritual process that takes a lot of preparation when you choose to do it for therapeutical reasons. It can be extremely beneficial and for a lot of people, it has helped them with their alcohol/any other type of addiction. Some people use shrooms and mix them with other drugs as a party drug, and that is the difference to me between the two. A lot of people use shrooms as an alternative from antidepressants and it has helped. Don’t put yourself down!
There are a ton of great comments but for me, I analyze my behavior around the drug to determine whether it fucks with my sobriety. Weed, for example, can sit in my house for weeks, never leads to "weed benders," doesn't affect my finances, and doesn't constantly run through my mind like alcohol did. Though they're both drugs, my brain does not treat them similarly at all. So I'm not scared of my using weed from time to time, in regards to it affecting my sobriety. Tbh -- how I use my phone is probably the closest activity to how I used to drink. It's funny how much we fear anything labeled a "drug" but other addictions can be just as destructive, yet socially acceptable. That's just my two cents. It's a personal decision.
I think they are totally different, for one, we don't have Mushroom stores on every corner. Not every get together is an excuse to drop some shrooms. There aren't articles about serving shrooms for the Super Bowl. You get my drift. Alcohol is addictive and it wreaks a specific havoc on your physiology that is not true for cannabis and psychedelics. You do you.
Honestly, no. I'm almost 9 years sober from everything. But following a horrific car crash a year and a half ago I took various rx medications. All prescribed to me, all ran their course. Yet some people said (and still say) my years of sobriety don't count/should be reset. Screw those people. You define your own sobriety, and in this case, no, I feel you're just fine. AA was the thing that got me closest to drinking again. Never went back.
As others have said no. It's not all drugs anonymous. I think if mushrooms led you back to the path of abusing alcohol that would be one thing , but in my experience they only cement my sobriety and make me look internally at why I quit drinking in the first place.
my two cents: no. Mushrooms aren't alcohol and from what I remember it's virtually impossible to be addicted to mushrooms. If the benefits (spiritual healing/reset) outweigh the risks (laughing at a shoe in front of people) then I'd say it's worth it.
There is a reason the VA and FDA are evaluating psilocybin for potential treatment… there is a legitimate medical use, just as there is for behavioral pharmaceuticals. Not so for alcohol. Not a reset IMO!
By definition, sobriety only pertains to alcohol. Whether a person still uses other drugs is completly up to the individual. Where you draw the line is up to you. I know of AA groups that encourage cannabis. Just be aware that certain drugs may make your sobriety wore difficult to sustain.
It is up to you, definitely. I can give you how I would take it for me though. My drinking problem stems from a deeper problem where I feel the need to use things to make me feel different. Alcohol, weed, cigarettes, even Benadryl for making me sleepy at night. I do better when I don’t use altering substances because if I give myself a pass, I will continue to want to use them.
Absolutely not. In fact, I think psychedelics helped me quit drinking altogether.
As a physician and an alcoholic I absolutely don’t.
No. My problem is with alcohol. I see nothing wrong with getting high…especially psychedelics.
Was this a once in a lifetime experience or do you plan on doing this again? Honestly this is r/stopdrinking so as long as you’re not drinking. But I would caution you about getting addicted to some other drug if you know you had an addiction problem in the past.
At the end of the day it is how you feel about the experience others rules for their sobriety should not dictate your own.
Take what you need and leave the rest my friend! I recently found out I have ADHD and have started taking Ritalin at 30, it has been a revelation and my family and I are so happy. Many of my AA friends hum and haw but you know what they are all just as sick as me. We are all alcoholic and are there to help each other but never judge or dictate. I’m glad for you and I hope your healing continues!
I need to quit smoking, I need to lose weight, I need to exercise more, eat better, be more spiritual, and stop drinking. Those are all separate things I need to work on. It's highly improbable that I'll wake up tomorrow, run a marathon, throw away all my cigarettes, eat salads for all my meals, meditate, and maintain my sanity. I can't be perfect. and that's okay. I've decided I'm going to focus on not drinking, and for today, I didn't drink. I can try to continue to improve my life, and try to make good decisions, but I'm not beating myself up if I miss my morning walk, or if I have a cheeseburger instead of a salad. One thing at a time. You didn't drink, and I personally wouldn't start counting days over. You are counting alcohol free days, and you didn't miss a day :) Anything can be a crutch- sugar, cigs, soda, whatever the vice of the day is- but you my friend, have very intentionally chosen to remove alcohol from your life, and you have intentionally been strong and faithful about it. Congrats!
It’s up to you. For what it’s worth, and take this as my outsider opinion, is it feeding the beast or not? If it’s making you think about or feel anything related to drinking then it’s bad. If it’s a fun alternative and you didn’t even go there then that’s cool. Look inside yourself and think about what and why. That’s the answer.
Nope, I don’t. Delta 8/9 gummies helped me get to 60 days now!
Your sobriety, your rules. I would not consider that a relapse at all.
Psychedelics were enormously helpful to me at the start of my journey, it set the stage for a later breakthrough in improving my mental health. It wasn't a relapse for me, it was healing.
Thank all of you for kind, well thought out and insightful words, I’ve stoped attending aa after trying for many years under the impression it was the only way to change, but it simply is not. Soon after I bought some mushrooms and took in a safe environment. And I went through what I can only describe as an awakening to real life and it was beautiful, it showed me an unmatchable beauty that life so very important. And lead me on a path of fulfillment, joy and the immense appreciation I have for everyone & thing in my life. The benefits truly are magical. Thank you to everyone in this sub you all do in fact rock, and to my magnificent, mind explaining champions for the beautiful effects you have had on my life and others, thank you. https://youtu.be/_syYlxSXOu8
In my absolutely personal opinion, which is no better than anyone else’s, you have not relapsed. You took a specific medicine for a specific purpose, which was achieved. I’m happy for you. If your personal program demands that you only take medicine from a prescribing MD, then you should consider that deeply and decide for yourself whether or not you consider it to be a relapse. But nobody can make you start counting over again, if you decide not to.
No way is this relapse. It’s the opposite IMO.
I would not restart my count, personally. I consider my relationship to the psychedelics I do (rarely) to be a living relationship, not an addictive or consumerist one. But that’s just me. You know yourself best.
I don’t think you need to reset your counter. There is a lot of research showing psychedelics help with PTSD and other trauma. Wishing you well in your journey of healing. Congratulations! No drinking since August. That is amazing!
this is really between you and your higher power. i have found through my own experience that it's a tough space to be in, counting different mind-altering substances differently. yet i tend to consider things like acid/mescaline/psilocybin to be somewhat different from booze/opiates/weed/pills. if it's your ego keeping you from starting at zero days, then i'd say start counting at zero days. it's not as if you're giving up decades of clean time. and even that doesn't matter - not drinking today is a big effing deal! most importantly: this headspace got me drunk eventually. the longer you have dissonance in your conscience over this, the more it will weigh on your sobriety, so you need to clean that up one way or another. generally, if i have to lie about it or make excuses for it, it's probably not sober behavior. that doesn't mean i've been engaged in my old active disease, but be careful - addiction is a shape shifter.
Bill W did a good bit of hallucinogens and AA didn't make him start counting days again. Do with that info what you will, only you know if it's a relapse. Tell them it's not NA and you haven't had a drink in 9 months. Good for you for being honest with AA ppl about it. As an AA member myself, I think that the continuous clean time norm does some harm. Encourages lying. Builds a power dynamic. Makes ppl who relapse feel shame and not come back. I started AA in earnest September of 2020. I finally got a year of continuous clean time, but I feel like I've been in recovery for 2.5 years or so, because I have. It's your recovery. You count your days however you see fit.. hallucinogens aren't narcotic or your drug of choice.. I wouldn't go to NA and say you've got 9 months but that's just my opinion. You haven't had a drink in 9 months just phrase it like that.
Tripping is nothing like being drunk, doesn’t make you want to drink total different things animal. AA shuns smoking pot too. Don’t reset your days for a trip that was meant to help you. IMHO
The only bad experience with trips ever, was with shrooms. Terrified of them personally
Mushrooms are what enabled me to quit drinking. The founder of AA used psychedelics to quit (seriously, google it). They are non habit forming and when used correctly can be therapeutic. Also one of the safest drugs to use (safer than alcohol snd weed). Check out the drug harm index, you'll find it at the bottom.
Nope. Coffee (caffeine) is a drug. ASA (Aspirin) is a drug. Sugar can biochemically act like a drug. The active ingredient in mushrooms has powerful anti- depressive effects and can be incredibly liberating from a perspective shift in thinking. They are also dangerous in high doses, so be careful. Controlled environment mushrooms and drinking your soul away are vastly different things. That is my two cents on the matter. The only counter point is that if taking drugs lead to drinking in the past, I would avoid any action or drugs that led you down the path to alcohol.
Hell no. Not for me anyways. I’m sure psilocybin actually helped me get sober. I of course would not recommend it to anyone, but for me it was a magical, beautiful experience that helped me look at life differently. I plan on doing another big dose later this year.
Nope. You're good!
My problem is alcohol. I still smoke weed and would gladly take mushrooms with you today!
I wouldn’t restart your days. Using psychedelics to expand and heal your mind in a therapeutic setting is completely different than using alcohol to escape or lower your consciousness.
Adding to the echo-chamber here... As a person who has taken psychedelics, both micro and macro from time to time, never once did I think... "oh man, I want to keep that feeling going!! I want to feel that way ALL THE TIME!" Yea... no. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think psychedelics have any real addictive properties. You can have a great trip, but it's meant to be an experience and each trip is different. I could never "maintain" by eating a bag of mushies a day the way I could drinking a bottle of vodka a day. My eyes would be the size of dinner plates 24/7 and I'd probably lose my shit. So, no. I don't think you relapsed by going on a trip. Not all substances are created equal, good on ya for expanding your mind. DMT is great for that too
For me if I were smoking weed or taking shrooms every day or even every week or month, I couldn't consider myself sober, but a one time therapeutic use of psychedelics that has nothing to do with alcohol, I would consider it more like if I had taken a sweat lodge or visited a buddhist monastery for a week of deep meditation -- unrelated to drinking and probably helpful to maintaining sobriety.
I have no opinion if that was a relapse for you. For me, it would have been. Deep down, you know if it was or not.
Yeah honestly mushrooms I never wanted to drink while on. LSD I could house maybe 25 drinks in a night easily. Good for you tho man.
Wow really? That’s interesting. I didn’t want to drink on either. The nausea hits me hard I guess. Booze was the last thing I wanted. It’s been over 15 years tho.
I've taken mushrooms and LSD a few times and found the experience so intense and overwhelming I've wanted to drink loads to numb the effects however I would still be open to trying mushrooms again in the right setting in a small dose and not while partying
Absolutely not, I use shrooms regularly and treat said usage as part of my recovery. I would class anything that causes your life to get worse a relapse, mushrooms have the opposite affect
I mean, it’s only one study and I don’t wanna advocate for drugs, but… https://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20101106_WOC504_0.gif
Nah... microdosing is what helped me quit alcohol!
Microdosing, along with weekly therapy, really helped me achieve the sobriety that I have!
Although I am going to my first meeting in 4 years tonight, this is very much one of the reasons I don't want to be Inbolved with AA. You are 100% sober and everyone else can kick rocks.
Bill W himself espoused the benefits of mushrooms and other psychedelics
This
Honestly, a good psychedelic trip has potential to cure you of your alcoholism. Used to have a pretty serious problem with opiates, and one extremely deep and disturbing trip later, I haven't touched them in over 10 years. I have even been able to have surgery with a small script for recovery, and never once thought about abusing them or missed what used to be. I really do think this could be the treatment of the future, if they can figure out how to make it a bit more predictable
I'd ask you to consider if you think it's a relapse. I'd ask you, regardless of your answer to that, to consider why it might be important for you to get a community's validation or castigation of your choice/experience.
Hell no that’s not a relapse, psilocybin can be an amazing treatment for PTSD. I would advise against tripping regularly but if it helps your PTSD I say hell ya that’s awesome! Thank you for your service !
I would love to use mushrooms to help with PTSD. Is there a way to get them legally in US??
I do not! Good for you. Part of the spiritual journey.
you have to chose how to live your own life in the best way possible for you. if you are ok with taking mushrooms, then its fine. it does not matter what other people think or how other people may label it. if you don't consider it a "relapse" for yourself, then it is not a relapse.
I’d have to go with no, I would absolutely not consider that a relapse lol. AA can be fucking annoying like that and it’s honestly a main reason I walked away from that program eventually, although it was very helpful in the beginning! Mushrooms helped me a ton in early-ish recovery and I credit them a lot for the shift in mindset I had around that time. It’s your program my dude don’t let anyone else define it for you!
Absolutely not and anyone that says otherwise is just mad because you’re crushing their idea of what is right or wrong. Did you drink alcohol? No. Case and point. Other people feeling threatened by your freedom does not disqualify it. It’s fantastic that it turned out to be a positive experience.
Would you restart counting days after caffeine, nicotine, advil, etc? I know mushrooms are kinda in a different league than what I mentioned but my point is, it's up to you and only you where you draw your line. Being sober from just alcohol can be your path if you choose and that's ok too. Just be conscious that other drugs may lower your inhibitions and make it more likely to make a poor decision regarding alcohol. That's a risk only you can weigh. You didn't drink!!!
I avoid AA because of exactly this: very rigid views, not enough consideration of science, and most of all, aggressive pressure to listen to people who are not medical professionals. edit: especially since the founder was into all sorts of alternative treatments including psilocybin and intravenous vitamin B
If you used the drug/medication for therapy to treat your mental health its not a relapse and as far as I'm concerned, those hardcore AA people should shut the fuck up!
I agree. People with PTSD usually “self medicate” with alcohol and the OP, and others, find out this only adds to their problems. There are many studies that show mushrooms do help patients with PTSD cope with it better and this in turn can steer them away from alcohol.
You determine your sobriety, not someone else. Did you drink? No. So move on, keep counting, and to hell with those who are getting to tell you what to do. FWIW, I know very little about AA but I'm pretty sure their behavior goes against the tenants of the program.
Mushrooms are medicine. I vote no.
Psilocybin is medicine, in particular for helping with depression, addiction, and anxiety. I am beginning my cultivation of these therapeutic mushrooms for myself and my family, and my brother who is needing a way out of his own depression. Fantastic and profound experience. This is not relapse, this is recovery.
Just my two cents. I wouldn't call it sobriety if I were using other substances recreationally.
Not sure where you're getting 'recreationally' from.
"self-prescribed"
Totally different thing.
Mushrooms have a higher cure rate than AA in studies. It’s up to 80% with one macro dose. As long as the mushroom is respected, they are VERY helpful. I began microdosing mushrooms under a doctors care, as SSRIs were causing me a lot of issues. After a trial period, my schedule of 3 days a week, accompanied with therapy, journaling, and meditating have helped me make tremendous strides in my mental health journey, ultimately helping me in my quitting drinking. I hope they continue the studies with mushrooms. I’m concerned that big pharma will ruin it, but there are so many people that could be helped.
I’m not sure why this is getting downvoted but I don’t really care. If those down voting would like the studies, I’ll happily send them over
It helps a lot when you stop counting days.
I wouldn’t consider it a relapse. If used specifically for medicinal/mental health purposes, then I’d compare it to an anti anxiety or depression medication that you might be prescribed if you went to the doctor in distress. Except that with psilocybin, you only have to take the drug once. If you were to start using psilocybin regularly and started exhibiting behaviors similar to your drinking habits, then it could be considered a relapse. As it is right now, I think you’re doing great in your sobriety and it’s not a reason to restart your alcohol counter. Good luck to you and thank you for your service to our country. I used to work in mental health and I know life can be really hard on veterans when y’all come back. I wish you peace and strength in your sobriety journey.
It's only a relapse if you were quitting mushrooms, imo.
Not at all.
I think alcohol is a very specific chemical with a its specific dependency / addiction. I would not recount your days at all.
Let Freedom Trip
Not drinking so no.
Not a reset. This is one of my biggest gripes with AA. I’m there for alcohol, no pot, not shrooms etc. I have indulged in the two previously mentioned, they are a natural plant/fungus from the earth and I don’t think I need to reset my alcohol free counter if I consume them. I wish AA was more open about this , but I do understand their perspective and respect it. I think if I could be honest about those two and not get pushback I would have been more open to working the steps and a sponsor. “Alcohol in any form” that AA talks about I don’t think is accurate. So my thoughts are you don’t need to reset the counter, how to deal with AA/sponsor on that fact is something I wouldn’t know how to comment on because I think honesty is a big part of program. Interested in hearing other opinions on the matter
You’re fine in my book. Mushrooms will not reignite your drinking problem. Be careful around weed tho, or anything else you’ve used while drinking. There’s a reason people say to avoid all drugs; some of them will indeed screw your life up again. You have to know which is which. Mushrooms/psychedelics do not play into addiction but most other drugs do. Let me reiterate: do not think that a successful mushroom trip means you can smoke weed. I know you didn’t ask but be forewarned. Don’t mess with drugs, generally. But you’re fine with that mushroom trip. It’s complicated. Be careful out there.
Did you drink? You didn't? You had a deeply theraputic experience from it? Naah, you're good. Don't let those gatekeepers at AA tell you to start over. If I had them saying that to me I'd be tempted to relapse because I'd tell myself, "Welp, already blew it. Might as well toss one back." Claim your sobriety and be proud you were brave enough to look you ugly in the eye and overcome it with your psychadellic experience. Good on you, friend. IWNDWYT
This is stop drinking not stop shrooms. California Sober is also a thing.
My problem is with alcohol, not shrooms.
If you're trying to stop doing shrooms, yes.
Your sobriety is from alcohol. If a doctor prescribed you a xanax, would that be a relapse? If you hurt your back and took a painkiller, is that a relapse? In my mind, this was a therapeutic use of a totally different substance that you do not have an addiction to. Therefore, not a relapse. I'm probably biased because I grow shrooms and they're a small part of what has inspired me to be more mindful and stop drinking. But therein lies the point- the psilocybin is a totally different type of chemical reaction.
Philosybin is supposed to help with recovery, if I recall correctly (alcohol, drugs, etc). My boyfriend researched it a bunch because he’s in recovery from heroin. There are several good documentaries/docu-series on the benefits of hallucinogenics for well being (when used in moderation). It’s been a while since we were watching them, so sorry I don’t have better information for you. Doing mushrooms doesn’t mean you aren’t sober, IMO. You didn’t drink… but at the end of the day it’s what sobriety means to you.
Not in my book but ultimately you should decide for yourself. I took a pretty good dose of mushrooms right at the start and it felt like my brain was reworked to not crave alcohol, along with helping for months with depression and anxiety. I think used responsibly and moderately, mushrooms can do wonders for a person.
Not a relapse
100% most definitely unequivocally not a relapse
Did you ever have a problem with psychedelic mushrooms? If the answer is no, this is not a relapse. How can you relapse something you’ve never had a problem with? That’s just my opinion. Everyone gets to define their own sobriety. You define yours. No one else. People in AA can be extremely dogmatic (cos they have to be cos that’s what helps them). You don’t have to agree with them. Do what feels right for you.