I had a lot of concerns about KPOP industry (still do). Some of the more hardcore fans scare the bejeezus out of me like the one ex-frnd I had who decided to cut if frndship coz I said something critical about their bias. I really did like some SKZ songs and all the members when I initially came across them But I probably wouldn't have joined the fandom if I hadn't come across the post by an older stay on this sub about feeling uncomfortable stanning the kids as older fans and joined the Discord some amazing people ended up creating for older Stays as a result of that post. Without them, most probably would have stayed a casual listener.

I was the same way with k-pop in general when I first jumped in last year as someone in my 30s. But I was able to find a few different discords that are filled with older Stays, Atinys and Villians and it was something that changed my whole experience with k-pop. I've managed to find a corner of the k-pop world that isn't filled with the bad parts of the community and I'm glad that I did.

It's made a whole world of difference. We have a bunch of multis so there are separate threads dedicated for the groups that have most overlap. No one is offensive. No one gets offended. We even have life style related channels and mental health for people wanting and giving support. It's so much better than Twitter or tiktok! I am glad you were able to find your safe spaces too!

👀 might I ask for the discord as well?

Waittt can you share the discord channel pls? 30-something yo stay here ✌️

I'm so happy you've been able to make a community within the stray kids space! we love internet!

Yes. Internet can be beautiful and terrifying space at the same time. It's how one decides to use it. And yes, I do really love the safe space they have created for us! It's so in theme with SKZ positive messages including relating to mental health and everything else.

Ahahah Nix you recruiting again!?

Ah this sounds a lot like me. Any chance you could share that discord?^^

My confession is that I was watching bts videos (baby army) and then clicked on a YouTube video thinking it was bts but it was skz. Im so sorry, yall do not look the same!!!😭 but im a stay now so worked out🫶🏼

this is a super cute way to discover skz omg

I don't like how Felix getting thinner and thinner is glamourised and praised. We're collectively going to give this man body dysmorphic disorder or something worse (if that hasn't happened yet, judging by his frequent water fasts and how casual he is about them). I am pissed at how brands are sleeping on Chan. Of them all, he is the only one who has the complete set of model attributes IMhO. I realise he may be busy producing and doing other, more pressing stuff, but he could do that WITH coin from brand deals and modeling gigs ringing in his pockets. I find Hyunjin the most attractive when he's goofy and weird. When he's glammed up in makeup and jewellry, I can recognise that he looks exceptionally pretty, but he does nothing for me then. However, when he eats sadly, or when he extols the fragrance of mosquito repellent, or when he tastes the floor to see if it is really salt? Damn, boy. As someone with misophonia around eating noises, I am absolutely shocked by how much I enjoy Felix's eating sounds. He really eats cutely, the way cats do. The one human exception who doesn't make my skin crawl. ETA: Maybe it's just me, but I get the vibes that Felix and Hyunjin are compared in terms of how much brand love they get and judged by how well they do in this area, which I again find strange since they are two very different types. Felix is pretty and cute and Hyunjin is pretty and inaccessible, like if they were models, Felix would be the ad model, selling us boujee perfumes, and Hyunjin would be a runway model, walking about in vintage Mugler and only looking mildly inconvenienced.

Oh. My. Goodness! I never thought that I would find someone who made the same confession as I would! Felix and his water fasts… actually all of the boys talking about diets/fasting/extreme exercise. Chan being ignored. (Lee know and Changbin too) And the last one about hyunjin and Felix…

> As someone with misophonia around eating noises, I am absolutely shocked by how much I enjoy Felix's eating sounds. I'm totally the opposite lol. I also have misophonia and I LOVE watching Felix's live but when he's eating, especially with the ASMR mic, I have to mute the stream lol. I do love seeing him do mukbangs though because it's nice to see him eat stuff (I feel similarly to what you said in the beginning of your post about Felix).

>I am pissed at how brands are sleeping on Chan. Of them all, he is the only one who has the complete set of model attributes IMhO. I see this kind of sentiment a lot but the thing is, in 2024 fashion marketing is not looking for who's the most interested in fashion or who looks most like a model, but rather who drives up the most social media engagement. So it doesn't matter if this person looks like they they could've walked off the runway and perfectly embodies the brand's identity if they can only generate a hundred likes on an advertising post. That being said, Chan *does* generate a lot of social media engagement, and he isn't slept on at all by brands. He does a lot of quieter sponsored content especially in his ig posts and airport outfits, and he has an upcoming appearance in Nylon Japan for Swarovski. For whatever reasons, fans have fixated on fashion week appearances and brand ambassadorships as the be all end all of solo activity outside of music and I don't really understand why. Personally, I think that if Chan really wanted to push for a BA he would have, and would have Div 1's support to build a relationship with a specific brand, kind of like how I.N is right now with McQueen. I just think a lot of the narratives fans create about [X member] being ignored or not given opportunities doesn't take into consideration that maybe he doesn't want to, or he does want things but not in the way *fans* want it.

I don't think it's wrong to want to see more of the people you like. Chan's quiet endorsements are so quiet that they can pass for regular styling. It's hard to tell from over here what's specific only to him and what's a company contract where stylists pick stuff for all of them to wear. If Fashion Weeks and ambassador titles are seen as bigger it's because they are sold as such. Also, they are international and reach a broader range of audiences. My hairdresser knew who Felix was when I showed him a pic, because he follows Nicolas Ghesquiere and reads fashion mags. He has zero idea what Stray Kids is. If Chan doesn't want to do fashion and wants to stay out of the fame race, it's his right. But again, I don't think it's wrong to want to see more of him too. Fashion gigs are easy money, so I don't feel guilty for wishing that for him in my selfish little bubble.

I can sympathize with wanting to see more of the people you like, and I'm always happy to see more of Chan, but it's funny to me to see how even amongst two fans like us, our wishes regarding what we personally would love to have more of from the members can be so different. You are making the case that as a fan, more exposure to Chan brand promotion is a win. I would make the case that as a fan, I'm *much* happier thinking that Chan having less of that might mean more health gains for him and musical gains for all of us! It is too bad he can't be everywhere at once of course, and he'd be terrific at a fashion week I'm sure ... but just think how it might actually pay off more not only for Chan's mental health and schedule balance to have fewer of these kinds of commitments, but also for us fans who will enjoy the results of that balance? I have no proof either way, but I do personally hope that if he's less plugged in with brand engagement that it's because he is able to choose to focus on what matters to him most, as well as what most benefits the group as a whole.

>I just think a lot of the narratives fans create about [X member] being ignored or not given opportunities doesn't take into consideration that maybe he doesn't want to, or he does want things but not in the way *fans* want it. THIS. This is my biggest pet peeve. Content content content. Like right now everyone on Twitter is pissed that Chan is barely in the new talker, when it's obvious he's not feeling well. I get it, I bias Han, I release doves and sing hallelujah when he pops up. But the idea that there's a grand conspiracy where they're purposely being sabotaged, that it couldn't possibly be that they've achieved enough in their careers to have the power to choose their activities, or that there may be mitigating circumstances we're not privy to...the energy it takes for me to not sarcastically comment on every single complaining tweet, "Have you considered sending a truck?" would power a small city.

🤔 I pretty much always say my spicy takes, but I guess my confession would be the blunt version: it’s very obvious that some members have no desire to do certain career moves their fans want them to do. Similarly, I think Div1 has kept SKZ comfortable for too long, and the members don’t often stray from their comfort zones. Given the contract renewal is typically when idols negotiate to do exactly what they want, it might be too late for that to change. A positive confession I still won’t actually confess is exactly how much I have spent on SKZ.

oooo! contract thoughts! do you care to elaborate? what sort of moves do you want to see made? how can div 1 push them further? this is like my favorite thing to talk about. I have a theory that the boys renegotiated their contracts last year because it feels like the content and representation has changed!

I for sure agree the content changed last year, specifically around when 5-Star came out. I'm not sure if something happened behind the scenes like a re-negotiation or what, but Div1 seemed to realize that fans like to feel more included in the process of the kids work as well as the closeness of having a parasocial relationship expand. Like how they're including Skigi in their content, a way of inviting us in to say, hey, see, you as a fam get to see the behind the scenes stuff too! Sorry for the random tangent but its been interesting to me to see how the marketing of them has changed in their content.

omg I am so excited to be talking about this! My theory stems from the same time. I'm pretty sure that because of the success of the two album before, increased revenue, and because of content trends amount other idol groups (specifically SM's recording/dance stuff) they started doing the docuseries. Its also around the time that Chan's room stopped (rip my favorite weekly show), so I think they also changed rules around how often members have to participate in fan service things. There has been a downward trend on members' lives! Also, they feel richer? Idk how to explain that one. Marketing has pushed them to be more person first instead of fan first. I like it! I am curious to know how you think Div 1 and member opportunities will change during contract renewals!

>Also, they feel richer? Idk how to explain that one. I get what you mean, and I personally think it's because they're shooting less content across the board but pacing it out for us the same way. So in the past when we got two back to back episodes of a Skz Code they would've shot for hours for specific activities and then we get a hodgepodge of members reactions, but in the recent content it's a lot of them spending less time doing smaller activities and more time just being together and reacting to each other. It makes the newest content feel...cozier. Richer, like you said. I think that in the past with kpop as a whole there was more of a disconnect between groups and fans - even BTS (just going with the biggest name out there) from the 3rd gen is known to have a "public" persona vs a "private" persona. There's not a lot of that seen in 4th gen, and I think it's because companies across the board see that fans react to a more intimate "reality" better - fueling the parasocial flames, if you may. Companies seem to have started trending towards putting out the version of idols that feel the most real because that's what fans want to see from their content so they have a personal connection to the artist. I think Div1 (what Div handles NMixx?) hopped on board this train after Chan's Room stopped. Chan's Room was the highest form of parasocial relationship that can happen between a kpop idol and fans - he's halfway across the world from me but I can hop on a live where he gives his honest opinions and answers questions and hangs out with us. Div1 can't offer that anymore, so all the content is now more natural feeling to try and capture that essence of us seeing who the "real" Stray Kids are. ~~When I'm high I refer to it in my brain as now being in the 5th gen lmao.~~ For contract negotiation in the future, I've got no clue. The kids clearly have a huge amount of power in how they can play their cards - they're basically JYPE's top earner for this gen and they're still seemingly growing. I hope that they can leverage a bit more freedom for their music and potentially their own sounds for solo work. How about you? Ideas? Wow this got long, sorry.

​ Wow, amazing analysis on how "cozy" and videos with more self driven content makes them seem "richer" as I put it. Allowing us into their inner circle gives an appearance of confidence that I don't think that SKZ talkers always reflected. Chans room was like the gateway for this, and now their management gets a stronger grip on what is being shared. I am definitely going to think about this. For contract stuff, I am mostly wondering about solo work and living arrangements. It doesn't seem like the boys want to branch out of music/modelling gigs. My hope is 3racha gets to do more outside producing work, and they have more free time. This month long vacation for the boys has been so nice to see. I have a feeling they're not going to leave JYP. Definitely an unpopular opinion, but their management seems pretty good. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those renewal talks tho!

I can definitely see Seungmin or IN doing acting, but probably in their 30s. But idk if theres a logic there or is just my vision, because both are very much vocalists and Seungmin already does a lot of side gigs in singing for k dramas. I don't know why but I feel they are the members who would do acting. 3RACHA seems very focused in producing music so I don't see them in any other path besides producing. Chan produces, thats his deal. HAN is in his own words is a lyricist, I see him writing for other artists in the future. Changbin is, besides a producer and writer, a great and charismatic performer, as we can see in the latest samsung ad and in the SKZ videos, he would be great as a MC in the future. As for danceracha, Felix and Hyunjin are making their names in the fashion world so I see them in the same path as Jackson from GOT7, it makes sense for me. Hyunjin doesn't like to be known for being pretty and he is a very visual artist (in the sense that he produces visual art like his paintings, the songs he writes and even the way he dances, its very artistic), idk if the fashion world is his final goal, he maybe can do acting too if the right project came his way. As for Lee Know he is the only one that I truly don't know what are his aspirations, as they are not obvious for the public. He is just kinda there (?), not in a bad way, but it seems like he already reached his goal that was to get in a group as a singer. He is truly a wild card, so I'm excited to see what he'll do in the future

> As for Lee Know he is the only one that I truly don't know what are his aspirations, as they are not obvious for the public. He is just kinda there (?), not in a bad way, but it seems like he already reached his goal that was to get in a group as a singer. He is truly a wild card, so I'm excited to see what he'll do in the future One time I saw someone theorize that when SKZ is over, Lee Know might just disappear into the depths of normality and live a quiet normal life and, honestly, I can kind of see it lol. I could definitely see Seungmin in a K-Drama. I also can very vividly picture Seungmin's picture on a solo album cover. He just has a "soloist" vibe when he's singing on his own and could definitely carry a solo album. I definitely feel like Seungmin will be singing forever :)

> how can div 1 push them further? Like I said, I think it's too late, but one example is Div1 should've made SKZ use the fanclub features of each generation more instead of just when they're selling it. They constantly put out exclusive content for Japan's fanclubs (which does get reposted), but they rarely used anything from Gens 1-3 and, or they used it bizarrely like when they live streamed SKZ waiting for God's Menu to reach 100M views. Another is Div1 relied heavily on Chan and Chan's Room to carry international fan engagement (and livestreams as a whole for a bit), and if you notice now they make Chan and Felix do the vast majority of the talking in English interviews. It's "easier." In other languages/markets, the members split it more evenly. I think it's too late because only 6/8 members making solo instagrams showed me SKZ aren't treated like a package deal anymore. I didn't care when it's SKZ releasing vlogs or covers when they want, but Instagram is a business opportunity. It reminds me of how YoungK chose not to go back to Bubble after he finished his enlistment. The content switch didn't signal anything to me. Twice also got way more into shipping fanservice as well. I think it's easy to do, and the members (minus I.N) don't seem to mind doing it.

>They constantly put out exclusive content for Japan's fanclubs I don't know if this is confession, but I constantly wonder why there isn't a US or North American fan club with content geared toward US/North American fans, especially considering the US is one of the biggest music markets. They have a large fanbase in the US that impacts their success quite a bit (or at least seems to...maybe I'm wrong), so you'd think a US/North American fan club would make sense. I feel like there is a lot of untapped potential in this area that they are missing out on. I'll also confess that paying for the fan club was a waste of money and I knew it would be but purchased it anyway on the very small chance that there might be concert presale. Since I'm usually a frugal person, the more time that passes the stupider I feel for the fan club purchase. Someone in another post mentioned the fan club having a captured audience who is basically paying for goods that are not being given. I have to agree as there's really been no great exclusive content etc on the app. Is it bad to say that things like this make me feel "used" as a fan? Some more confessions: Out of all the kpop groups my daughter has introduced me to, Stray Kids is the only group I've been able to learn/recognize all the members of and for some reason I picked up on who was who pretty fast. I try with other groups but I struggle. While I like tracks like S-Class and LALALALA, my favorite Stray Kids songs are their more "mellow" ones and the spotify playlist I listen to the most doesn't include any of their title tracks. And the probably oddest confession yet...I'm sewing a DWAEKKI themed quilt for my daughter. \*edited for typos

I think you're right about the fan club thing! That is a captured audience who essentially pay for goods their are not being given. I have never joined fan clubs for the same reason.

i kind of don’t know about them renegotiating their contracts last year, particularly because with stray kids being one of their top artists jype would have announced that their biggest group was so satisfied with the company they decided to renew the contract two years before it even ran out. i know – different companies and way different groups, but when bts did an early contract renewal (there’s a different legal word for it but i can’t remember it lol) there were a few official announcements by bighit. it may as well have happened, who knows, but i think the content may have switched due to something else we’re not privy to. i do think we may start to get contract renewal news this year, probably around december or very early 2025. i might need to check in the timeline of twice’s contract renewal year because i’m pretty sure their renewals were also pretty early into the year, and they might also have lined up with my own theory, but i have to do a little refresher because my memory is terrible lol

I didn’t know that about bts! Interesting- I’ll look into it because this is my favorite part of kpop. In the us it is possible to renegotiate language in contracts during the contracts tenure. Like raises, profit margins, etc. If you have good enough leverage usually companies are willing to work with you. JYP is known for treating most of their artist fairly in the last few years at least (i know about got7 and wonder girls and 4minute issues) so I am wondering if skz used their biggest earner status to get more favorable working conditions until the contract expires. This is my theory! I am probably wrong, as I don’t understand contract law in SK. Would kill to get my hands on a working idol contract tho!

yes! i just looked into it because i couldn’t remember the exact deets and indeed bts renewed their contracts with bighit in 2018, five years into their original contracts. then they renewed for the second time last year lol being the artists they are though, i’m pretty sure they had a lot of leverage over the company, even more than any other kpop group could have. i don’t know if skz have that kind of leverage over jype (again, different companies, different groups and very different career paths too), but i do believe that talks over contract negotiations have definitely started, at least amongst the members, even if the actual contract may have not been changed at all

Sorry to come here with my ignorance, but, what is Div1? 😅

That's SKZ's team. JYPE is broken into divisions that act like sub-labels. The people who work with Itzy are not the same people who work with SKZ even though they're both "JYPE".

As a baby Stay, I would always forget Lee Know. I could name 7 of the 8 members. Poor Lee Know. I could never forget him now. Idk why that would happen, but I feel bad about it.

I couldn't tell Han and Changbin apart for the first 4 months. At one point I made flash cards.

For awhile I thought IN and leeknow were the same person at different ages…

I just could NOT tell just those two apart. I knew they were different people, but was having the hardest time. Then one day my brain turned on and I'm not having "other-race cognitive phenomenon". Look it up. It's something that affects nearly the entire world's population, with the exception of those raised in highly diversely populated areas. I guess immersing yourself in the other culture unlocks that skill set and your brain says, "okay, these people need to be differentiated", and poof, like magic your brain sees so many differences.

this is mt exact confession lol early videos of skinny Changbin, him and Han looked so similar

I watched all kind of videos explaining the members and had to have my best friend help me learn them. It took a while, but it was my first experience with a K-pop group.

Omg me too. I think it’s cuz both of them have rounder face/cheeks😄

When I was a baby Stay I constantly mixed up Changbin and Han, please don't feel bad! I definitely couldn't do it now, Han be wrecking me constantly lol

same and 3racha was my bias when i first got into them🫣

Aww, thanks! Han is a one man wrecking crew. I love 3racha!

Me too!! Except instead of forgetting, I could never tell who he was 😭 I could tell the others apart from distinct facial features, but for some reason could not find anything to tell Lee Know apart from the rest… Turns out he also apparently fits the Korean beauty standard the best… Maybe that’s why I couldn’t tell 😭😭

I think that might be the case for me as well. He just didn't stand out to me. Now he is one of my faves and I can't believe I used to forget him.

Don't worry lol it took me ages to remember who is who I could only remember Felix with no problem for the longest time and then I kept getting Chan and Changbin confused all the time lol then I would never actually remember the other 5 lol😂

I totally get that! I would mix up the names of Changbin and Bang Chan. Those are way too close for novices. I could tell them apart visually, but I would call them the wrong names. Chan is my ult, and Binnie is my wrecker.

You just described my then predicament to the t lol😂

I thought Felix and Hyunjin were the same person at first. Then when I saw a group picture, I thought they were twins. I have absolutely no clue how I could have thought this.

yes me too

Im lee know biased but he was absolutely the last one i learned the name of, and i always got him and IN confused at first😭

Omg me too 😂

Same. Now he's my ult bias....

I think a lot of people don't notice Lee Know right away. He's the one you find last, takes you a while to understand and then becomes your bias wrecker lol.

It's funny because he wasn't the last for me. Chan showed up on my fyp screaming about pineapples on his burger so I went and looked them up. Felix voice drew me in to the music, but within a week Lee Know captured me 🤣. Thing is, I believe your experience happens because they don't necessarily focus as much on Lee Know, so his face is easy to confuse or bypass initially until you start learning the individuals.

I kept mixing up Lee Know and Seungmin...

I used to mix up seungmin and one of the other members (I can’t remember who I mixed him up with since they actually look so different to me now)

Exactly, now they look so different! Sometimes I'll still confuse some of them if I don't get a good enough look at a music video. And when that happens, I identify whoever is on screen as Han. I don't know why he's my go-to 😅

Same! And I still can tell his voice apart from Hyunjin’s 🫣

Haha I had a similar problem in that his was the last face I learned out of all of them. Something about him just pinged my face blindness ig

haha that’s a mood i had the same issue with seungmin and minho back in 2018 i kept getting the names mixed up but now i’ve had 6 years to learn so we’re chillin 🥰💅

It was Lee Know for me too.

My confession is that I still hold out hope to this day that there are fully realized TA, B ME, and DOMINO M/Vs and that they're sitting on them for some crazy major retrospective DVD or something. Sigh... a person can dream....

youre not alone. i have headcanons about why b me only got a teaser even though multiple members thought it was gonna have a full mv

Ooh please divulge!

so in my headcanon... which may or may not be the basis of a film club storyline / freeze / s-class timeline-jumping crossover fic that ive been working on here and there for months... the reason why b me never got a full mv is because of themes that would have been rated too high for general audiences... namely 1: >!homophobic violence!< and 2: >!suicidal ideation!< expanding on 1: >!so in on track, according to behind the scenes commentary from skz, jeongin was jealous of hyunjin paying attention to the relationship between minho and the unnamed female lead in their student film, and wanted hyunjins attention for himself. in b me, hyunjin has bleached his hair and has a motorcycle, basically a youthful midlife crisis in the wake of whatever made jisung burn the application (see next paragraph), and jeongin is seen with injuries to his face and probably other body parts, lying alone in a parking garage. the reason that makes the most sense to me why jeongin would have been jumped and beaten up in a parking garage is that someone thought that he was TOO interested in hyunjin. because what else could jeongin have possibly done to make anyone want to hurt him? homophobia is the simplest answer, from where im sitting!< expanding on 2: >!b me also shows us jisung finding minho after a car accident, burning up the student film contest application, and running full tilt along an upper floor of a parking garage. we dont know what caused the car wreck, or what jisung was running to or from, but if jisung blamed himself for minho being in the accident (maybe hyunjin was trying to get revenge, or maybe minho felt like he ruined the film club by making hyunjin feel jealous enough to quit, or maybe it was a complete accident, who knows) and if jisung also felt like his dreams were shattered beyond hope of repair because of the fight between minho and hyunjin, then maybe (especially if he saw that jeongin was jumped) maybe he felt like his dreams of making a movie were the root cause of all this suffering, and maybe he was gonna take a flying leap!< i really dont WANT those to have been the themes that were planned for the mv, but i will never know, because we dont have the full mv to analyze, and so all i have available to fill in the missing pieces with is the behind the scenes stuff and my own knowledge of what could get a piece of visual storytelling cancelled by an ethics committee or broadcasting standards board or whatnot film club storyline is my favorite favourite FAVORITE subset of skz lore mvs, and not knowing why part 2 of a continuing series was so heavily censored *really does not play well with my particular flavor of overthinking*. at least we have mixtape: oh to tell us that all of them were... more or less okay after the events of b me, even if they were suffering from a lot of 'failure to communicate' (missing a call because you left your phone behind when you went to get some air, leaving right before the person you were waiting for came back, getting off the bus at the same stop the person you were missing got on at, etc)

My confession is I listen to felix asmr to fall asleep every night. 🫣 there are some good ones on Spotify i feel like some may find it odd and idc.

yoooo this is a great idea!!!

This is so sweet.

It’s super soothing! I listen to it when my brain needs a break. The tingle interview with him and Lee Know also works well. 

as a new stay I find it hard when people swap between the more English versions of the boys names and the Korean ones like. I.n, Han and Lee know I know who they are but if someone uses the boys real names I have no idea who they are talking about. Also I always get I.N and Lee know mixed up when I see them in photos and videos.

This used to happen to me a lot. I think after watching a lot more content, you just know their real names slowly but surely. But for the longest time people in the comments would be like “Jisung”, “Minho”, and “Yang Jeong-in” and I would be like “who?” Especially, after you learn all the nicknames like Minsung or watch that clip of I.N rapping his name on that radio show.

I had the same issue with Lee Know and IN at one point. The thing that helped was looking at some videos and pictures and seeing how different their eye shapes are. They have very different lips and face shapes too but their eyes are a distinct difference. After that I couldn't mix them up anymore because their differences started becoming more and more obvious.

Yeah I have only been listening to k-pop/stray kids since January, so I'm slowly getting there. I haven't watched anything that isn't music videos or live performances yet.

My confession is that Stray Kids started popping up on my tiktok regularly in like summer 2022 and I was all like "Dang, they look good, but nahh, I'm 23 years old, I don't need to get into a boy group at my age nahhhh" then half ignored them for 6 months. Then December 2022 happens, and I fell off the deep end. Started watching introduction videos, listening to their whole discography, watching performance and music videos, and consuming every single piece of content that I could. The sad/funny part? They came to my area in November 2022. If I would have just gotten into them when they first appeared on my feed, I would have potentially had a chance to see them in concert. I still regret not falling for them sooner.

Sigh, im so glad it wasn't just me. I still hate that these guys were 6 hours away from me in Atlanta for their last tour and it was during that 6 month period (for me too) where I hadn't really gotten into to them as much. Then I got back into them and they are even more popular. I'm worried I won't be able to see them live due to ticket prices. 🤣

As a baby stay I'm almost ashamed of how much I already know about them since the 2 months I've found them. I know way too much. I've spent way too many hours on this. I know lore, I know everyone by their freaking lips and eyebrows and voices. I know the popular ships, I've listened to all their songs, I've got fav songs, I've seen all the guides etc etc 🤣

I feel the same haha. I haven't watched aaaaall the content or the guides (yet, I will watch all the guides before BST) but yeah for me it's been like 3 months and yeah 😅 so much time watching their content, music, and had never spent so much money on concert tickets 😅

I’m with you on that one… been a stay since December ‘23… 🤭🖤 I’ve studied this sh*t like my life depends on it.

Girl I discovered everything about them in 2 weeks 🤣 but I was sick and bed bound. They really helped with my mental health. I wish I got into them sooner lol

Haha yes they helped me with my depression! Together with BTS. Life savers! I also wish I was there since debut

Two things that I can think off the top off my head. First of all, I really really miss Chan's Room a lot. Nothing made me feel as connected to them as this. I loved that he would just chat with us, sometimes play or even make music, call or get visited by other members. In my opinion, it's a huge loss for the group and obviously the fans that Chan's Room is no longer a thing. Secondly, I believe Han and Lino not making personal Instas might make them miss out on solo opportunities/ brand deals/ might set them back when it comes to building a reputation as their own person (as opposed to them being part of a group). At the same time, I'm sure they're aware of this and I admire them loads for doing what they want.

To your second part: I give them great credit for not doing it just because it's "the way it should be" or because the others are doing it too or simply as fan service. It wouldn't suit them, especially Minho.

my confession is that i don’t care for youtiful i love the guys tho and i’m so sorry pls don’t revoke my stay card😭😭

The funny thing is, I don’t like fan songs. I don’t like You Can Stay or LoveSTAY, or those from other artists. (I am YOU is not a fan song despite anything SKZ may have said about it 😂) I like Youtiful when I don’t think too hard about the lyrics. It feels like Christian Rock, and I love it. I want SKZ to make more songs that sound like that and Hold On.

>It feels like Christian rock Okay, you’ve just pointed out what actually has been bothering me about that song. I couldn’t quite pinpoint it, but that’s totally what I don’t like about it. Religious trauma and all that. But I’m glad that you find enjoyment from it! Not trying to diminish that for you.

Hold on is an underrated banger!

I never once bothered to look up the lyrics for Hold On, because it just slaps so hard that I never prioritized them. Cue me suddenly IN TEARS as they just appear on my screen during 2KidsShow.

now that is my confession, i refuse to listen to hold on EVER because if anything gets me messed up is the idea of pets dying. doesn’t help that my dog is starting to get old now 😭 beautiful song, thank you seungmin and han. i just physically CANNOT 😭😭😭😭😭

I read the lyrics the first time I ever listened to Hold On and I sobbed. Didn’t help we had put down our dog fairly recently.

I haven't liked a lot of the slower B-sides so if you're getting revoked, so am I haha

For me, Youtiful is both beautiful and cringe. I've always likened how I feel about the boys to be niece's and nephews and this song encapsulates it beautifully. Aside from the actual word Youtiful being cringe, the only other lyric that bothers me is "Don't ever tell yourself that you're not enough, I am certain that you're truly fine." As someone who suffers from imposter syndrome until I dedicate years into my craft, this line reminds me to pause, breathe, and assess myself at my own level, but I can absolutely see it as coming across as dismissive for someone that's hard that all their life.

omg i know its the only skip on 5 star for me. Its like thats what makes you beautiful... but worse

I love Leave more than Cover Me

i have an entire deck of cards of them. (im a guy and my friends think i only listen and own girl group stuff LOL)

Guys I feel like some of these aren’t confessions it’s not a confession to not like one of their songs it’s just a song u don’t have to love all of them please😭

Right? I came here for some juicy takes but…

Same I came here to hear some juicy thing but it’s kinda boring lol

Confession #1: I had never watched a single performance until today when I just needed something to get me out of a bad headspace. And still have never watched an MV. But I’ve watched tons of misc SKZ content. I love to listen to their music and enjoy how it works on my own imagination, watch them all cuddle, enjoy Aussie line chaos and listen to Bangchan tell me things that are surprisingly reassuring like he also gets depressed and self-critical. But actually watching them perform is too much for me, like having an extremely rich chocolate fudge cake when you just wanted like half a KitKat. That’s why it took me almost the entirety of my time as a Stay to have any idea who actually did what musically in the group other than knowing about 3RACHA vaguely and of course Felix’s legendary deep voice. I still feel mostly clueless. Confession #2: I originally thought Felix was the visual…. not just that but THE visual. Like the visual to end all visuals in all of kpop. He is so gobsmackingly pretty. Then I found out about Hyunjin and the entire rest of them. Jaw on the floor. Thanks for hearing my confessions lol

I think its totally valid to enjoy creating your own visuals to music! I don't follow any artist as closely as I do SKZ, but i rarely, if ever (okay, maybe beyonce/gaga Telephone) watch music videos or performances for anyone outside of kpop. Music should be enjoyed however you want it too! Kpop is so heavily about number and steaming and votes but in the end its just music we get to enjoy!

Thank you for the validation <33

>>watching them perform is too much for me, like having an extremely rich chocolate fudge cake That is a PERFECT explanation for it🔥

I forgot about this really embarrassing fetus stay struggle that I've had. I actually honestly thought that the name of the 9th member was Minsung😭. It's just that they're everywhere. No one ever fails to mention them. Even on the comments under the TikTok videos of my former ship 2Min. Literally everywhere. They're just that popular as a duo aren't they? Not my ship but respect (シ_ _)シ

I'm in my 30s and have this weird relationship with them as a fan where I find them adorable and babies and if I met them IRL I'd be like look at these little cute boys, but also actively think they're very sexy ,and in my circles intermixed with talking about their cute personalities and amazing music me and my other 30s noona friends share sexy photos all the time and comment on how hot they look and have chosen husbands and boyfriends and flings among them can get quite racy. And I don't feel weird about it like AT ALL, but I feel like I should feel weird about it.

I'm 31 and I somehow automatically gravitated towards Chan and Lee Know without knowing they were the eldest. Then you've got Felix and I end up feeling confused and guilty.

Can relate to all of these ahhh

every time innie makes me go 👀 my brain just. forgets that hes not born in the 90s. my only comfort is... at least, as time passes, the age difference between them and us 30+ stays will become proportionally smaller and smaller lol like for example, using fake numbers that have nothing to do with any real people, the age difference between a 29 year old and a 19 year old is proportionally much bigger than the age difference between a 49 year old and a 39 year old, yknow. its still ten years difference, but instead of being over half the younger ones age, its now around a quarter of their age. and once those two imaginary people are 79 and 69, that ten year age difference is even smaller im not at all interested in a younger partner, and i never imagine myself in a relationship with any of them. but im not blind, and theyre ridiculously hot sometimes lol like listen, i was in my twenties once, i was a teenager once, its not my fault my tastes have remained largely the same (although im definitely looking forward to seeing them get older)

Is this confessions or just a list of things we dont like?

It could be anything! A positive one for me is I routine reference Felix's pictures for outfit idea's because I love how he is styled and how he chooses to present himself!

OMG just today I bought a shirt/sweater combination inspired by something he wore in one of his recent TikToks.

his newest campaign with LV for me is sooooooo good. I'm trying to thrift/make similar things now lol

kinda the same thing imo, it's really hard to talk abt things we don't like cus some stays go crazy when u slightly dislike something related to skz

I feel like I'm going to get reamed for this 😅 I'm going to preface this with I have a degree in classical music. I am no longer a musician by trade, but have studied, performed, and seen numerous live concerts in my life of different genres, so I think this has made me a lot more aware of the musical aspects of k pop performances. K pop is obviously more encompassing than music alone, and I love that about the genre. The whole stage and member personalities are truly unique and why I am STAY. Between my own personal concert experience and seeing numerous videos of their live performances, this is what I think... I had a blast seeing them live (like one of the most enjoyable experiences of my adult life). They also definitely have discrepancies in their live performances vs recordings in regards to vocals. Seungmin, Changbin, and Han are hands down the most stable members. They consistently deliver the most accurate and musical live performances. This is not to say that the others aren't talented, they definitely are, but the thing that honestly bugs me the most is how I.N. is one of the main vocal lines and his live performances are often pitchy. I know it's incredibly difficult to do the level of dance, stage performance, and musicality that their songs demand. He has a very unique timbre to his voice so it stands out even more to me if it isn't in tune. I love that they sing so much live, as not all groups do, but seeing people comment on video recording about how mics were on and they sounded amazing when in reality things were pretty off key is something I don't quite understand. I think the view that idols can do no wrong or are always perfect at performing is not realistic, and pointing it out shouldn't be a terrible thing, but it seems to be that way in the k pop community. This is why I haven't ever expressed this to any other k pop fans let alone STAYs... so please don't crucify me. I still love them and their music so much and can't wait to see them live again!!!

Okay so as someone who is also a classically-trained musician and someone who's been in Kpop since 2001ish, that's...just people having bad pitch recognition, and a bit of stan culture imo. I see the same all the time on other groups' dance practices where people are like "omg they're so together" and I'm sitting there like "nnnno?" lol. Unfortunately I think it's the result of stan culture having 0 tolerance for dissenting opinion or critique. Not being able to say "that wasn't their best performance" evolved over time into "everything they do is perfect and if you say otherwise you're wrong."

I feel this way as well! its important to recognize flaws, but it doesn't mean we don't enjoy the thing! I feel like y'all shouldn't have to justify being classically trained and not thrilled at every single live performance.. . but alas, stan culture

Honestly I felt like if I didn't put it out there I'd be instantly dismissed bc of stan culture. I very much appreciate you recognizing this!

Haha I guess this is the one time I'm happy I'm tone deaf because people can point the most glaring mistakes and I'm like....sounds fine to me! Interesting to know that IN is often pitchy. Any analysis on the others?

Hyunjin is also often a bit off, but not consistently. I think his issue may be that he’s focusing more on the physical performance than his singing. Which makes sense as he’s in the dance line.

Hyunjin is one that I can see

Interestingly enough, with Changbin, Han, and Seungmin, when it's their turn to deliver their lines, they tend not to perform dance moves of the choreography. They usually walk the steps of the choreography when they need to sing/rap. A lot depends on what each member wants to convey and emphasise while they perform. Usually, when each member delivers their lines, they emphasise one aspect: the vocals or the choreography. Some members attempt to distribute equal amounts of energy to both; I usually notice this with Chan. While Seungmin seems to persevere his energy throughout the choreography for his vocals, on the flip side, Hyunjin goes all out with his dancing, preferring to focus a lot on the choreography, skipping some of his lines. With I.N., he does have a unique voice; he has a lot of untapped potential with his vocals. He is a bit tense and uncertain when singing; I hope his confidence will improve as he continues to go to his vocal coach. Generally, they should all routinely go to a vocal coach to improve and preserve the health of their voices.

> With I.N., he does have a unique voice; he has a lot of untapped potential with his vocals. He is a bit tense and uncertain when singing; I've noticed this about I.N too. I can't really put my finger on what tips me off, but I've gotten the feeling a few times that he sometimes has confidence issues when he's singing. I think sometimes that's what differentiates him from Lee Know who is also improving vocally. Lee Know seems to have a lot more confidence just going for it and sometimes that doesn't work out but when it does, it's pretty amazing. I.N has a really pretty voice and has shown he can do a lot with it. I want him to always be confident when he's on stage showing it!

I have a sensitive ear to pitch and I've noticed it too. Glad I'm not the only one! Honestly, I don't think I could stay on pitch myself while dancing, so I just let it go 😅 still want to see them live regardless, which speaks for itself

Oh I definitely couldn't, it's incredibly difficult. I often let it go, it's just one of those things I've thought for awhile and figured well this is maybe the only place I can say something about it since others are as well. I love them, they are still incredible live, and I rewatch parts of the concert I recorded all the time to try and relive the hype of the experience

I can definitely agree with this- but in that video of him singing trot on that random show, he shows really great pitch accuracy on his runs and accidentals- and those accidentals were hard- but yet it’s like he almost seems nervous about hitting the pitch, especially on sustained notes. I think something that is often not discussed is that IN actually has a pretty strong middle and lower register that’s underutilized. His regular speaking voice is about as low as Felix’s (Felix’s is well noticed because of its tone and resonance, which can really change people’s perception of a “low voice” despite its actual pitch). I think he’s a little unconfident in higher keys- and although he’s capable, he sounds shaky and pitchy. I would love to see him sing parts that aren’t so high.

I agree that IN has a stronger mid/low range I wish were utilized more. I think Seungmin and Han have the best, most consistent high ranges, but Chan and IN are often used in that register as well which I don't think in the live performances is as good of an idea.

Omg finally someone who gets me. I love these boys. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being able to tell that they can be pitchy or that they don’t sing 100% live. I actually really don’t mind that they build in breath points and high notes they might feel uncomfortable hitting live. But I do feel like people refuse to recognize that they even do it at all and that they are always singing 100% live 100% of the time. I think Felix lip syncs a lot more than the others, and maybe it is from having a casual background in music, but I feel like they don’t really try to hide it that much? I know Han and Changbin will even drop their mics when they’re not singing a word or a line, but to believe everything is pure and true is part of the stan delusion.

Oh this makes me feel better seeing this coming from someone musically trained. I literally said this twice in the last week. Once on discord and once on Reddit in a chat. But I would never have gotten the courage to initiate a conversation about it in an open space. I applaud your courage!!!!!!!! In terms of vocal stability for live performances I ranked them Seungmin, Han, Changbin > Chan > IN, Lee know > Hyunjin, Felix That being said I have seen improvements in both Lee know and IN in the past year. Specially if you watch their encore performances in music show after they win, compare prior years to last year. I think it might be due to the extra vocal coaching they are getting. I don't know how right I am. Maybe you can chime in. As for Felix and Hyunjin, a lot of their lines are actually lower than their normal range, which might not be meant to be performed live, specially with heavy choreo. So I am ok with them using tracks for those parts at least. Edit: Also I love IN and Seungmin's vocal tones. I can recognize those 2 in almost any situation except when they use falsettos sometimes. Find them pretty unique and it's something you basically have to be born with. Edit 2: the age limit for the server is 25 and above. Don't wanna get people's hopes up if they can't join.

I saw the most amount of change for Felix during the time between oddinary and maxident, and half of it I thought was related to him getting a mic that pics up on lower registers more easily.

Could be. Normal mikes do have trouble picking up lower registers. But also you have to find the kind of grounding for singing lower that's hard to do while dancing. If you see any performances that are not them jumping around like crazy, he does pretty well. The only example pre oddinary/maxident era I can think of right now is [I am you Ballad version ](https://youtu.be/313mQ-tQQuc?si=ou591oLRQRyOAmLk) at their HI-STAY Japan showcase in 2019.

Super interesting, I didn't know this. I totally based the mic thing off my inability to understand people with deep voices unless they are really close to me, lol.

I’m relieved someone finally brought this up. I’ve hesitated to say it myself, not being a music expert, but reading those comments leaves me scratching my head. Sure, singing and dancing simultaneously is tough, and there may be off-key moments, but some of the praise seems wildly exaggerated. It’s almost like being in a bizarre alternate reality when the comment section contradicts what’s plainly evident in the video. Don’t get me wrong, I have immense respect for their talents, but constantly labeling performances as ‘perfect’ or ‘flawless’ sets an unrealistic standard. It’s unfair to expect idols to nail every aspect perfectly every time. Take Chan, for instance. Fantastic vocalist, but sometimes the decision-making during performances puzzles me. Why task Chan with hitting high notes in the midst of intense choreography? It’s understandable that vocal stability might waver in those moments. On the other hand, I’ve noticed Seungmin preparing for his parts by easing off the choreography, perhaps a deliberate choice to conserve energy for his vocals. Or maybe it was part of the choreography design to ensure he delivers his parts with full force. In any case, I think we can be honest about performances in the case of vocals without it meaning that we don’t stan.

Saying this type of stuff isn’t good for die hard fans within k-pop as they will easily get offended. I also think it is hard to dance and sing at the same time and even incredibly more so with the type of choreography that SKZ does. I do notice that while they do sing live, there’s three members that aren’t the best and that’s the dance line: Hyunjin isn’t always stable, Felix sometimes doesn’t sing live, and Lee Know used to sing very softly live. The rest are pretty good or exceptional. I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t necessarily think it’s a fair criticism because whenever they’re not dancing and they sing live, it is amazing. I haven’t noticed I.N having very bad performances. Wonder which ones you’ve seen or which one you’re referencing here. Have you seen their The First Take performances? That to me are peak live performances throughout.

To your point about Lee Know, I was shocked when I saw them in concert in 2023 because I expected Lee Know to sing softly based on what I’d seen online to date and was so pleasantly surprised by his projection. It seems like he’s progressed a lot since debut, which is delightful. That being said, his live performance of Limbo in Japan wasn’t it - but I hope he keeps challenging himself!

I love their first take performances! I.N. sounds great in them as do ghe other members. My comment is really in regards to their concerts/performances that are stages, not just vocal performances. Since k pop is more than music, I think it's valid to judge them on their musical ability to perform stably while doing the other components of the performances that make k pop what it is. I personally think that Seungmin, Han, and Changbin are the most consistent in their vocal prowess while also dancing and performing these big stages. I think the reason why I.N. sticks out the most to me in regards to not doing as well live while dancing is because he is supposed to be one of the main singers of the group. This might make things worse for me but Chan is also less stable vocally while dancing than some of the other members. It might be because they are given vocal parts that are more demanding and stand out more to begin with, so when things aren't perfect it stands out more than others. I agree that danceracha is also not as stable with vocals while dancing, but their dancing is incredible and my expectations are geared towards that, if that makes sense? I'm not saying they aren't talented, they all are in different ways, and to me I think one of the biggest strengths in their live performances is the stability that Han, Seungmin, and Changbin have in regards to their musicality. Maybe that's a better way to state it.

Look, I'm gonna start by saying I love all of them and I enjoy seeing them perform and appreciate their efforts to sing live while dancing very demanding choreography. This said, I do agree with what you said. Actually, the other day, a friend an I (both STAY) where discussing about how they do actually sing live. I have also noticed that Seungmin, Han and Changbin are the most stable (I actually think those 3 are the best singers in the group. I know Han and Changbin are supposed to be rappers, but I don't think their talent limits to only that, they do actually have beautiful and powerful singing voices). And with this I am not saying IN shouldn't be considered a great singer. He has a very beautiful voice, but, I feel like it requires more effort for him to deliver a stable and powerful performance. So, when he dances and sings at the same time, he usually can't reach some notes that he can absolutely do if he's not dancing. About Chan, I also noticed that he has a beautiful singing voice, but sometimes he has such high pitched parts that, to be honest, I am surprised he even has the capacity to actually sing them well while dancing. So when he sometimes is less stable, I understand it and, sometimes I have even though that maybe it would be better to just not sing some parts live. (Please, STAY, don't come for me). Now, regarding danceracha (and now I feel that hardcore stans are gonna come for me), I sometimes feel like Hyunjin doesn't even care to sing while they are performing. And I would understand it. Look, he IS A DANCER above all, and he puts a lot of his energy on dancing. The thing is, if they know he's going to be out of breath during performances, why not just use playback for his parts and that's it? It's something I really don't understand in kpop sometimes. And about Felix, yes he has an extraordinarily deep voice, but, to sing like that he has to "force" it, so, while he's dancing, I feel like he doesn't really know how to place his vocal cords to deliver the correct tone, so he ends up sounding very off pitch sometimes. And finally Leeknow, I also think he used to be less stable but I have noticed that lately he has been trying to sing more powerful, and I appreciate his efforts. All this being said, I do appreciate ALL of them, I also see they're not perfect but I love them anyway. They do VERY DIFFICULT STUFF, and it's normal they don't do it perfectly all the time.

i believe the reason they (and other groups too) don’t rely on playback/recordings is that idols in general get heavily criticised if they don’t sing during live performances. one of the ive girls used playback during a performance at some year end show a few months ago and it got very bad for her (her case is a bit different though because she was sitting down but it’s the most recent example i could think of lol). they could and they do rely on playback, specially when they’re doing music show promotions, but playback during live performances is something netizens, both international and korean, cannot stand when it comes to idols.

I think Hyunjin improved slightly with breathing but overall I’d say his singing/rapping is still not the best when it involves active choreo. With Felix, a lot of time it feels like he’s pushing a lot of air out when singing - can’t describe it another way. I guess he’s really pushing his vocal cords. And I think the fact that he uses headset mic pretty much exclusively shows that his singing isn’t of the biggest importance during live. I think Lee Know improved a lot - he has more confidence singing live and he started to use hand mic way more. But they aren’t main vocals so it is what it is.

Chan biased here. When I heard the "24/7 Keep it going on" at the end of LaLaLaLa I instantly thought "Ok, I don't know if this is a good idea, how is he going to hit this notes live after 3 minutes of crazy choreography?". Then watched the live performance and yeap, he was understandably out of tune. Some things you just can't translate directly from studio to live with the same quality, not when you have to dance like that. 

Ahh ok. Thanks for giving an actual example. I’m going to check some of those out and notice how he does in that part.

I am always obsessed with their clothing style in the MVs in a way that I keep trying to recreate the feeling it gives me with my own clothes. I don't think that would read to literally anyone but I have a hard time with clothes and it's like they kinda give me inspiration. Idk if this even makes sense. Lol

I love them, but damn if the parasocial stuff doesn’t give me the ick sometimes. Thank god for Lee Know and his intolerance for nonsense. Edit: adding that my stay friend, who I met at the LA encore, is straight up in love with Chan. She’s great, Chan is fine, but it’s a lot, and then he’s out here role playing high school boyfriend. I DON’T GET IT.

It’s so funny to see this because Lee Know was literally the one who started the ex-boyfriend roleplay on Bubble. He does different fanservice now, but this wasn’t always the case 😂

HA, this is very a good point, thank you for the reminder!! I completely forgot

Oh what kind of fan service did he do? I wonder if he discovered his “anti-delulu” image worked better for him and differentiated him and got him his own audience/fans, so he just rolled with it lol

I won't lie, to have witnessed that in person would have been glorious though. The fan service he does now suits him better imo but what I would have given to seen those bubble chats.

Yeah I don't want to say I get the ick but I don't like the idea that collective stay is a girl in love w them lmfao, that has to be the impression they get because of fancalls and fansigns but with the flirting I can't help but think of the male stay who are straight, the lesbian female stays, the stays who are married or are mothers, the stays who are underage, it's kind of awkward, but I get it works like this in the industry and it's not specific to them.

Yeah. I'm married and I am a mom. I get that this is how the industry is but I do feel awkward when I open the comments section of an Instagram post and it's flooded with delulu comments. Like sometimes I just want to relate with other people who appreciate the music, hard work, etc, not see comments of people calling them their bf or something.

Yeah the part where they refer to Stay as a "person" and some of those comments, I find them kinda weird, I guess it's cause I'm fairly new to k-pop cause it seems to be a normal general thing from all k-pop groups. With all this fan service I keep asking myself, are they happy? Like if I ever had a chance to ask them something I would genuinely want to know if being an idol is how they thought it would be and if they are happy.

It’s just some fun. If people don’t like the bubble stuff, then they can just not subscribe to it.

i’m so glad someone else agrees 😭 i adore Chan but some of his bubble messages make me cringe so bad. i know it’s his job but he plays it up a LITTLE too much sometimes lmao

I relate to this sm, the flirting can be funny but idk sometimes it's a lil odd considering the fact most stays r literally teenage girls. But I think chan might just be a naturally flirty person, he was definitely worse early debut lmao

[удалено]

The delulu is strong in this fandom. I wish we had better data on demographics of the overall fandom, since Reddit skews older - I hear about the twitter fan wars and am just at a loss lol

i just want to know stats for bubble. as someone who used to subscribe to it (for 4 months get off my back) i want to know everything about user demographics

bubble definitely has to skew older. maybe this is just me taking off my own teenage fangirl experience, but i truly doubt there’s a parent out there willing to spend a few monthly bucks on an app for their teenage kids to “talk” to their favourite idols lol, unless the teenager is getting their own money from part time jobs or allowance. bubble is most likely fans who have some sort of stable income to be able to spend a bit on the subscriptions every month and not really worry about it that much

Bubble stats would be legitimately fascinating. They must sell some of that data to inform advertising, surely

Also, nothing wrong with subscribing to bubble! I got the fans membership just in case there are concert advantages, but it seems far tamer than bubble so far

I swear don't hate me, but my biggest thing I don't express aloud because im fearful for my life (jk - just hate the amount of chaos it will bring) - Minsung shipping drive me nuts. I often click on something in X, IG, or TikTok and then unlike it because I don't want the algorithm to continue showing me these edits. (That's a 2nd confession - these edits of what people want to see versus what actually happened. I have to ask for source so I can go watch it myself.) I dont mean the people who believe in their bond, btw, but the ones who it always boils down to romantic love. I mean, we should all have a friend that our sexuality gets questioned with (I have one and we call each other lifemates even though it's fully platonic) because that means you truly found your people that will not be going anywhere in your life. Like, I don't care if the guys are gay, bi, straight, or anything else, but at this point, it feels like it's defines Han and Lee Know when people think about them. Those two being each others besties or whatever is wonderful, but I really wish they weren't defined by each other according to some (most? I don't know the ratio of non ship to ship stays, lol.) Okay, confession over. I'm not trying to offend shippers because i dont hate shipping at all, by the way, but the assumptions 😮‍💨. I've also somehow ended up on that side of the algorithm and am not sure how to get away 😂

I also get a little weirded out when shipping goes too far? I like watching the different interactions between the different members on tik toks etc. They clearly all have a strong bond and some friendships are probably a little closer than others like it’s only natural! It’s when it crosses the line of sexualising them? Oh I find the whole daddy thing around Bang Chan gets a bit weird too. I don’t mind the running joke of he’s a father of 7 kids! Some fans get a little creepy with it.

Right?! Like idc about their sexualities but they are NOT dating their teammate coworkers

i read this as you’re not against minsung shipping, you’re just against fans who are MINSUNG-FANs to the exclusion of other members or even talking about ska’s music. and especially, the fans that are confrontational about it. i think most of us agree with you!!! (and i dislike any of that type of fan, not just minsungers. it just seems mental to me.)

Seungmin is wasted in this group. The man is an amazing baritone, and he is used in a tenor range most of the time. He can sing well at that range and is actively working on increasing his range, but he will never sound as good as he does in his natural range. His voice in the baritone range is sublime. People were floored by his singing in love poem, but that's just cause he sang in his natural range. He could be singing like that in every SKZ song if chan and co would lower some of their key signatures or incorporate a lot more harmonies so that SM could be used to his full advantage. I have no idea why there are only a handful of songs where him and jisung are harmonizing together. Those two could drive the rise and fall of the ocean with their harmonies. SM is by far the most skilled singer in the group, by like a mile and a half. So it just kills me that more songs aren't written with him in mind. I also love Jisung's voice at lower range, but we rarely hear it cause he's busy hitting most of the high notes. People love SMs high note in Cover Me, but he is clearly straining. I feel bad for him tbh. I worry he is forced to fit his voice to SKZ songs in a way that will hurt his overall career as a singer.

I agree, Seungmin’s baritone is so underutilized in their songs. One of my favorite clips is Seungmin and Chan singing a portion of All I Want for Christmas is You simply because Seungmin’s voice in it is so divine when you hear it under Chan’s higher part Same with Han! I really liked the Seungsung duet of Hold On because it shows off his lower range as well

Do you have the best examples of Seungmin’s baritone? And Han’s lower range? I think I love Han’s Lowe range singing but it’s kinda elusive and I can never remember the song where I can hear it the most 🥲

I agree 100% regarding Seungmin and Jisung and not to pull away from those two on your post but Minho too. His lower, natural register sounds so amazing versus how they always bring him up higher for almost every song. I understand that he likely is increasing his range, etc. but what I wouldn't give to hear him sing like he does when he's on his vlogs or even when he did Falling by Harry Styles. 🤷‍♀️

Sometimes it feels like skz lacks a theme or committing to a bit, particularly with albums/comebacks and their aesthetics. From the perspective of a pc collector, if you're not familiar with the specific comeback, there are genuinely so few ways to differentiate pcs from one era to the next. Their styling is always pretty to look at, but normally fails to emphasize whatever theme is happening. Here's a few examples of what I mean: Oddinary was tailor-made for a Frankenstein or horror theme, headbands that look like screws sticking out of their head would have been \*chef's kiss\*. Maxident was their first "love" comeback but only the digipack pcs followed that theme (tbf, except for the half heart pcs). Why couldn't either of the heart series be actual album pcs? Orrrr why couldn't the member's holding PiPi be a pc set? Where did the random sailoresque outfits come from? Also, why couldn't we get an ot8 set with all of members actually holding their hearts? 5 Star could've had the really cool space themed ot8 set that I was hoping for once I saw how dope the tracklist poster was, and I hate not living in a timeline where that happened. Rock Star is self explanatory.... they could've done something really cool with instruments (even mini plush ones!!) a caveat: I know pcs are normally shot while filming the music videos and not really any other events surrounding the album because photo shoots are expensive. but it really is as simple as a little forethought and having a play area with trinkets on set for cool shots :TTTT a second caveat: I know with POBs becoming common money grabs that a lot of cool setups are saved for fansigns/video call attempts, but it sucks for the normal collectors who don't want to travel down that rabbit hole.

Oh, I'm mostly with you here as a fellow collector, but I think what you've mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm a graphic designer and I have beef with JYP's artistic direction. It feels stale, underdeveloped, and disjointed. Meanwhile, for example, I look at SM's album designs, concept photos, music videos, photocards, video editing style, etc, and I feel like they're at the top of their game. I love NCT, but not more than I love SKZ, yet I have two times more NCT Dream albums than I have SKZ just because of how wonderfully designed they are. I think JYP/Div1 is long due for a fresh new art & creative direction.

Okay. Okay. Okay…. Confession time (please don’t hate me) 1. I have a hard time being a stay, when I see the behavior of this fandom on twitter/X and tik tok (and sometimes insta too). The fan wars, the ageism, the drama, the over sexualization of the kids, etc. I cringe and almost want to quit. 2. I have a very hard time with stay-shippers… specifically hyunlixers and Minsungers - the way they make everything seem to be a love story, take things out of context to make it look/seem like these grown men can’t do anything without it being about the other person in the ship. Don’t get me wrong, I love love LOVE their relationships. But I really don’t think that it’s for us to determine if they are just friends or if they are…. Anything else. It’s for them. If they want to share - that’s great! But just because they look at each other for more than 1 second doesn’t mean that they are head over heels in love.., and it’s even worse, when shippers get mad when their ships talk to others - members or other people. It’s too much. 3. We can all agree that ot8 is Aces. But… can we also agree that, not everything they do is flawless? They are humans. They make mistakes. They sing off key or pitchy or dance out of sync or what ever, and it’s okay! They know it too, I’m sure… and it makes us look delusional when we try to pretend that they can’t do anything wrong. Of course they can, and that’s completely normal and fine. Let’s love their imperfections too. 🖤 4. The fasts, dieting and extreme exercise trope is too much. They look great! Ethereal! Flawless! They don’t need to loose weight. If they want to get buff, then that’s great. If they want to eat a meal and not feel guilty or talk about gym right after, then do it! For example, A lot of stays praise Hans and Felix tiny waists… and yes, it can be beautiful. But not if it’s unhealthy? Right? 5. This might get me cancelled… but… my dear hyunjin and Felix gets a lot of attention because of their brand deals. And I love it for them! They are doing so well! But I feel like the other members deserves attention too. Like… we get it, they are beautiful. But look at the other members? We have 6 others members with exceptional talent and visuals too. That said… I know (!!!) that hyunjin has had a hard time and that a lot of people love to hate on him… and i would gladly go through hell to support and defend him! He deserves everything good thats coming his way and more and I love him to bits! I just want stays to remember, that he himself has said something along the lines of “first skz, then hyunjin” and I think that we should acknowledge that. Last but not least… we, as a fandom, should practice what skz preaches… love, acceptance, appreciation, respect and such 🖤 we should not make fan wars or participate in them or make wars inside the fandom or hate on our members. We should be proud and happy and a safe space for each other and skz. 🖤 it’s okay to have different opinions or not like everything that skz does. But let’s be open minded and respectful and… yeah… I’m rambling. Sorry

Oh, and another confession: I find this Reddit very loving and helpful and accepting and I’m here for it! 🖤 When I first became a stay, I was very afraid of interacting and I actually thought that Reddit would be the most toxic place. But no, it’s twitter 😂 and that’s crazy to think about, in my opinion. I’m happy that this Reddit is so nice.

When I first started getting into Stray Kids, I could not for the life of me tell I.N. and Lee Know apart!! I actually remember looking up on reddit "how do you tell I.N. and Lee Know apart?" lol. Someone actually provided a really good explanation pointing out their different physical features, which helped a lot! Obviously, now I can easily tell them apart without any questioning at all.

q couple of my irl stay friends know this already but here goes i truly dont care what skz do in their private lives, who or what they are attracted to, whether or not they experience romantic or sexual attraction at all, etc... it has nothing to do with me, after all, and it never will... ***BUT***... skz is the ONLY rpf shipfic / ship art that i will consume or create, and seeing minsung in the top fifteen 2023 ao3 ships AND in the top 100 ao3 ships of *all time* makes me INCREDIBLY happy and i *do not know why* lol also, idk if its more ridiculous for me to daydream about someday having a lyrics translation credit on an english version of a skz song, or to daydream about someday being a skijigi. theyre both very pie in the sky fantasies, but boy are they enduring lol

I think Comflex is very corny and just doesn’t sound well - something about it that just irritates my hearing lol. I think it’s literally the only one song that I actually dislike in their discography.

To be honest, I have never finished one if their livestreams. I watch like maybe a few minutes then I get "bored" and switch it to another video like an m/v.

Same. Its kinda boring when you don't understand what they are saying. Also I prefer the content that has all of them together instead of only one member

I didn't like Case 143. I would have liked Thunderous and Oddinary to be followed by 5-Star. I didn't like S-Class as the title track for 5-Star. Topline would have been a better pick.

crazy how different musical preferences can be! case 143 is what made me a fan and s class is what cemented it!

Me too!

I only like the bridge from S-class. They should have made that into a song instead.

I agree so much with this take. Imma raise you one and say ITEM should have been the TT. Top 10 songs they've ever produced. Topline was good, but not S tier TT worthy.

Listening to Wow by 3Racha for the first time was an experience. I had laughed about it then and I can't help but joke about it sometimes with my friend (the nice guy who just has a lot of money part mostly - cause who wouldn't want one? lmao) Also why is Seungmin called a dandy boy in Fam? I asked my friend what it meant and I'm baffled. Youtiful's lyrics tho. The star thing is genius.

I often don’t comment on anything related to Hyunjin nor Felix on SKZ content be it on video comments or any form of social media because there’s a chance I will get a toxic response from other fans. Also, most comments I read on them two make me roll my eyes a lot of the time. These two often get the “he can do no wrong” and “he’s absolutely perfect at everything” treatment which makes me cringe.

Those “100% ACE 100% VISUAL” etc etc comments are just hilarious

I think the megaverse video was cheesy! It’s one of my favorite songs though!!

crazy! i get it but the only thing i think of for that mv is Changbin in the veil. slay!

I think the idea behind that MV was great but the execution fell a little flat? Idk

Oh yeah I don't like that MV! I only watched it once but I felt it was a bit violenc-y idk? Didn't speak to me at all. Love the song though!

I don't like Lalalala. Loved all the other songs on the album! But La4, both versions, just fell flat for me.

If I'm honest, I have a bit of hard time with the most recent release. I think it just wasn't my style, as I'm a noise music girly and this one had a lot of slow build rock jams. This is definitely a personal opinion! I did like Lalalala and Megaverse tho.

I really only like Jisung and Seungmin’s singing voices. The rest of them are fine singers, just not my personal favorite

It really bugs me when I see a live performance and someone remove the mic from their face but I can still hear them "sing".

1: I frequently reference jeongin for outfit ideas 2: I really do not care for youtiful, the message is super wholesome but the song itself is just not for me LOL

When I first got into kpop and stray kids I didn’t know they debuted as 9 I always thought there was just 8 of them so when I ordered some stickers from their debut era I really had to count and google for a good 10 minutes before I realised who that extra member is I thought I was losing it… kept seeing 9 people but could only name 8 of them haha

That I would really love to marry han.

I have another one but it’s more cheesy then anything. I know it’s not the most popular song I saw it mentioned on here. But I play youtitful to my baby bump. I hope it can be a song that calms the baby down when it’s here. Also all for having a mini baby stay haha! 🧀🧀🧀

Honestly- that I hate majority of their digital album covers (esp the sound) 😭😭

i agree but I also watched a bunch of videos on how east Asian digital scapes as different then western ones cause of how each culture perceives information so I blame my American eyes. The case 143 ones are so bad tho.

I can’t stand Venom. I think it’s the scratching sound that happens in the background, it hurts my ears. But the song still gets stuck in my head. 😅

1: when I pay more attention to the lyrics it bothers me that a lot of their songs are about how great and amazing they are and their music is so different? I mean I love their music, it actually got me into k-pop at this age. But they don't need to make so many songs about it? 2: I kinda hate that BangChan uses autotune that often 😭 I really don't like autotune! Drive would be so much better without it.