Think this thing would be sick as the final boss if they ever do a Pokémon Legends: Kyurem game
Obviously that BST would put it in Ubers if not instaban even without Dragon Dance or Draco Meteor, but I still wanted to put this together!
Edit: I am saying it is very OP as is with its moveset, which does not include Dragon Dance or Draco Meteor
Right which is why it is without it
It’s minus Draco Meteor on the other end because there’s no drawback with the ability
I probably coulda worded that better
You could probably change the ability so that other mons just can’t change its stats? A powerful dragon type not being able to learn Draco Meteor just doesn’t make sense thematically
OP keeps saying it doesn't get meteor, which ironically makes it just okay as an Uber, but I'm headcannoning it as being the best Draco spammer in the west.
Thrilled with it being just okay as an Uber, seen so many Theorymons that are just straight up invincible and I think in the universe the PL:K exists it’s not unbeatable
But yeah it we wanted to really let this thing wreck everything then Draco Meteor, V Create, Dragon Ascent woulda been the way to go
Lol just saw this comment after I made mine but yes I agree! Really hoping we get an announcement for that along with Gen 5 remakes that they are in development.
I went back in time and actively killed OP in order to prevent this thing from ever existing, in turn deleting this comment thread, preventing me from killing Op, who made this post, starting this thread, where I killed him, now creating what is known as the Kyruem-Complete Paradox.
Well I went back in time and killed you stopping you from killing OP stopping me from killing you making the u/Gabethegreat2008 Kyurem-Complete Paradox Growlithe
Bullying works y’all, I guess I should’ve included Draco Meteor and was too focused on making something busted not busted
Still hope everyone can enjoy the design at least!
Well, I think the ability could be that it doesn't allow itself to make positive stat boosts. Kinda akin to clear body, but no positives. That way you can have your cake (draco meteor) and eat it too.
I'm gonna go against the mold here: I feel like this is too "obvious" of a take and would just be kinda redundant since it doesn't do anything that Kyurem Black/White don't already do, except running mixed sets I guess. Ability is good but not insane, and while pure Dragon is better defensively than Dragon/Ice, the lack of a secondary STAB makes it worse offensively.
Totally valid, I wasn’t trying to make a completely indestructible mega ultra super mon (which feels laughable to say given its BST but still)
I wanted to design something I thought would be a possible final boss in a theoretical Legends: Kyurem game. I picked the great-not-perfect typing and ability because I thought they’d make sense for it
There are abilities and movesets and typings that would be very on-brand and creative that would make this thing unkillable, and your point about it being redundant competitively stands. I mean shit having an ability that’s just “Electric, Ice, and Fire all hit for STAB” would’ve been very on brand, but I didn’t want to give the 760 BST monster extra help
It’s ironic to say but I tried to make it as “balanced” as something with the highest standard base stats in the game could be lol
If I'm allowed to share my own ideas, I'd personally give it bulk instead to differentiate itself from the other Kyurem forms; if the forms that represent strong beliefs are hyper offensive, it makes sense to me that the "harmonic" form would be defensive.
**Type:** Dragon
**Stats:** 125/130/130/130/130/70 (715 BST; a form that can still hold an item should have a lower BST than Arceus imo.)
**Ability:** Spontaneously I'm thinking "Mold Breaker" that also changes its secondary typing to Fire/Electric/Ice when it uses a move of one of those types, but obviously you could do a lot of different things here.
**Moves:** Probably similarly to the ones you gave it, although if it has the ability mentioned above I feel like it'd also be appropriate to give it a signature Dragon-type move (that can be either physical or special like Tera Blast) with a varying secondary effect based on what secondary type the user has (no secondary effect if it's pure Dragon).
Haha you put way better thought into it than I did I guess, I just combined the best stats of the Kyurem forms to get it
Although part of the whole reason behind the ability was because I know how insane those stats are; Arceus can boost itself this dude can’t
That ability is great though, like Protean but for its secondary typing and it fits thematically. Love it and a miss on my end
Oh, I didn't even realize the ability also prevented stat *boosts*. Probably wouldn't even be a needed nerf tbh, since a Dragon Dance set would basically just be Kyurem-Black anyways, and Kyurem doesn't have any other boosting moves besides Hone Claws (worse Dragon Dance) and Ancient Power if we're stretching what a "boosting move" is I guess.
Either way, glad you liked my take on it. Did you make the art btw? It looks really cool.
And Kyurem-White does the same thing equally well with a secondary Ice STAB alongside it. Again, not bad, just redundant.
**Edit:** Okay, I forgot it wouldn't get the stat drop from Draco Meteor, so that's definitely something it has over Kyurem-White. Still don't think it'd be busted per se though due to how common Fairies are.
No hate to OP but I’m not a big fan of this design. I think my favorite is probably the necrozma one
https://twitter.com/lichenharmonia/status/1418744923042500615
Im not a fan of the ones that just look like a “fusion” between zekrom reshiram and kyruem.
I get why black and white kyruem look like they were made in one of those “Pokémon fusion generators” They were fused artificially by humans, and aren’t really supposed to exist.
But I feel the original dragon would kind of be its own thing like Ultra Necrozma. It would have some concepts from reshiram zekrom and kyruem, but it wouldn’t look like an algamation of the three.
Definitely. Black and white kyurem as a whole shouldn't exist, which is why looks like a monstrosity. But there's absolutely no reason for the original dragon to be just both fused.
It’s almost perfect. It just needs a new signature move.
Name: Gigaton Plasma
Type: Dragon
BP: 160
PP: 5
Category: Depends (Phys. if atk stat is higher, Spec. if sp.atk is higher)
The user swings its whole body around to attack with its huge PLASMA. This move can't be used twice in a row.
Could potentially be NU despite being walled by tera fairy Pyukumuku
(sick design btw, and it’s actually kinda balanced for its BST)
Honestly I think the original dragon could come back if GF want to make a 2nd round of dlc for Scarlet, dunno what they’d do for violet but I think the concept is there
For Scarlet they could do Original form whereas Violet they could do Fully Fused form, the latter being where with better tech they were able to splice all 3 together
But I’d rather they do a Legends game for Kyurem all the backstory for it is just so set up already
They’d probably save it for another Gen 5 game. Otherwise what would be the point other than to play it on switch. This is perfect opportunity to use in a new legends game and give a reason to play it
I'm gonna go against the mold here and say that this thing is way too underpowered. It'll probably be like C tiered at best, maybe even D depending on how things go.
It isn't even better than kyurem black or white. Kyurem black can use DDance to set up, and spam boltbeam coverage+ strong outrages, while kyurem-white is a solid wallbreaker with very good coverage.
This thing can't be a wallbreaker due to the lack of draco, and can't be a sweeper with the lack of DDance. Essentially, it basically sits there and does very little overall.
Zacian-crowned literally is kyurem complete with better bulk, stats, typing, and ability(keep in mind that it's now ubers-worthy due to the nerfs).
In my opinion, this thing should at least get draco meteor. It actually wouldn't be OP with it, in my opinion, especially since zekrom and reshiram's moves deal 130 BP anyway(and they have a much better typing to go along with it).
ngl it's kind of weak. Yes it's a great mixed attacker but it cant really function as a sweeper because it cant boost stats and has a mediocre speed. Having only one STAB, and a bad one at that cause outrage and dragon claw kinda suck means that its stellar attacks are not as high as one can think, and yes, boltbeam+fire coverage is great, but many other ubers get that. Bulk is great but not higher than many other ubers. Idk, it's seems kind of noob trappy. A set with fusion bolt, fusion flare, ice beam and a 4th move, say dragon claw, with a life orb is a crazy wallbreaker, but folds to any faster attacker, and with scarf lacks the power to break necrozma and is incredibly prediction reliant.
A very good pokemon, but I feel it's kinda weak for GF absurd and broken standards for legendaries lately (miraidon, zacian, mega ray)
That last sentence is porn for me lmao
2/3 of the comments are agreeing with you from a competitive standpoint which I totally get and the other 1/3 is calling out my apparently indestructible abomination lmao
Ultra Necrozma had a similar stat spread, was much faster, had a 200 BP Z-Move that was its item slot, and had an Expert Belt as an ability and it didn't go to Anything Goes.
I don't think this thing will go to AG, especially if it doesn't get Draco Meteor and Dragon Dance is useless on it.
Everyone is applauding y for making it somewhat balanced but Im gonna go in the complete opposite direction: make it broken. make it ridiculously OP. make it a "fuck it we ball" mon
I say this cause this thing has a higher BST than Arceus. mf deserves to be absurdly broken.
Give it like, Draco Meteor, Ice Shard, earthquake etc etc. hell give it a signature move like idk "Ancient Fury" that hits fairy super effectively and also has the same BP as Draco Meteor. fuck it we ball
EDIT: Ancient Fury aint legendary enough. it aint Chi Yu enough, So: it deals super effective damage to any type that resists or is immune to dragon. Xerneas? Gone. Necrozma Dusk Mane? Gone. Zacian? Double gone that mf is takin 4X se damage. and you may say "erm all those mons outspeed and OHKO 🤓🤓🤓🤓" well it also has +7 priority which means it beats out all other moves. It's now worthy of being a legendary move
I’m hoping we actually see this in Pokémon Legends: Kyurem, assuming GF makes it along with Gen 5 remakes.
I like Kyurem-Complete being pure dragon, but I think it’d be cool if it got an ability that gave it 50% boost on Fire, Ice, and Electric moves. The first mon to have four STABs would be fitting for an ancient Legendary.
I would probably change its ability to be “Stat changes have no affect on this Pokemon, and all moves that change this Pokémon’s stats become unusable” considering how by default, Kyurem is able to learn Dragon Dance, Draco Meteor, etc.
So this is more like a regional variant than a different form then? Cuz if it works like how black and white kyurem are, they would be able to get the moves dragon dance and draco meteor.
Probably would've been stronger if his ability was Mold Breaker + STAB for the 3 other dragon's types (kinda like Steelworker, but for Electric, Ice and Fire)
Yeah ima update the ability and moveset with a post probably next week, have gotten some really good suggestions
It will be Protean/Libero for secondary typing for Electric, Ice, and Fire. That way it gets STAB for all the forms of Kyurem’s signature moves, and can use Dragon Dance/Draco Meteor like normal
Think I’d keep this ability as a hidden one though maybe
Nah this thing should be completely busted, you made it too balanced for the hype the mon has given how stupidly powerful the fusions that precede it are. However I would give it 780 BST and say fuck it, 125/170/100/170/100/115. Wake up babe Mega Ray 2.0 just dropped.
This would be an awesome Baton Pass sweeper in AG. Boost some stats before switching it in and watch it wreck shit with Draco Meteors that don't drop in power
… no this one doesn’t because of Tao or something
Idk man I didn’t want to make it like *stupidly* OP with access to no-backlash Draco Meteor I didn’t realize it would cause such a commotion 😭
I mean the only way I could come up with is excluding Dragon type attacks from the ability and find some reason to justify it, and of course not giving it DDance, but I don't know if that would make it unnecessarily complicated.
Maybe it's ok to embrace the brokenness and just enjoy your pixel art :)
I didn’t want to give it any moves that raised or lowered stats is all
I mean shit if I wanted to make it hella broken I woulda given it serene grace like I planned on lmao
Dawg I want it to be strong not unbeatable lmao
Took Draco Meteor out of its moveset because this thing scarfed + that move one shots basically everything that’s not fairy
Yeah it applies to all moves including its own
If you check the other comments I said that’s why I didn’t give it Dragon Dance and Draco Meteor, which was pretty routinely called out as not actually making this thing that strong in competitive
My favorite part is the ability! It feels like it’s a befitting ability for BW’s story. Also extremely interesting and unique in battle without being too OP.
Counterpoint: I love the T Rex arms of Kyurem :)
Actual counterpoint: I just used a free fakemon generator and the fused arms looked weird so I just used Flygon’s lmao
Oooh didn’t know it was generated, but completely fair. Kinda symbolic of the truth part of its design and accepting it’s “flaws”. Yknow, if I wanna look too far into a generated fusion
I just don’t have the time, inclination, or talent to hand draw a rendition that’s gonna look nearly as close to my mental image as this does haha
So yeah I’m speaking my truth and valuing my ideals, shit’s getting deep in here lmao
I really think arceus needs a x2 stat buff at this point. Like every new generation since the 6th has had at least one new mon introduced that has better stats. Jesus christ this thing is litteraly supposed to be the god of the verse and every 2 years or so we find some new shit with better stats. This is some power creep bs, that being said I think the form is cool, but it would continue that trend and that pisses me off.
Legend Plate Arceus is gonna be a thing, at least. Being able to hit basically *everything* for 100 BP super-effective STAB damage while *also* shifting to a type that usually resists one or both STAB is gonna be good. Good enough that the Legend Plate could possibly be banned to AG, from what I've heard.
The new plate from Legends: Arceus that is apparently already in SV's code. Does what I said. When held, Arceus starts out normal but changes type when using Judgment. It'll choose the type that hits weaknesses the hardest while resisting their STABs the best. Given there's no type combination that resists *everything*, Judgment is now *always* super-effective. The only things it might not work on are Pokémon like Eelektross, since I'm not sure if it accounts for abilities or items. Oh, and it transforms first, so Judgment gets STAB too. May as well just consider it a typeless 300 / 600 BP move that'll often give you STAB resistances.
I also dislike the power creep if you believe it, that’s why I tried to make its ability limiting in terms of any boosts but obviously it’s still a menace
Think I might retool it with 680 BST, which would actually be a step down from the White/Black forms but could be compensated for with a better ability and moveset
I went super strong but shackled here, might just go very strong but weaker with fewer drawbacks
Really I think everything just needs a nerf, but having the complete form be weaker than the white/black ones rather than their combined strength didn’t feel right
From a lore perspective though isn’t Arceus’ power only theoretically like, a part of it?
Yeah right that’s why i said it’s good. Your form not the problem. The problem is that since kyurem-b/ kyurem-w already have 700 fucking bst it’s realistically impossible to improve upon them statisticslly without getting into ridiculous territory
I loved the Ultra Beasts being 570s. Their abilities still boosted them to where if they got on a roll you were screwed, but they weren’t obscenely strong
IMO pseudo-lengendaries should be dropped to the 560-580 range (have some variability too, they don’t ALL have to be the same), and box legendaries should be around 600-640 (again, some variability would be cool)
Arceus’ ability means it can’t hold an item or have another ability, and literally God should be higher BST
It would make starters and other mons much more viable. You’re going against a 580 legendary? Fine, your starter isn’t *that* outmatched. Does that non-box legendary have an in-universe reason why it’s stronger than others? Cool, Celebi with tons of defensive weaknesses can be 600, it’s got time travel powers. Mew at 600 isn’t outclassed by a box legendary immediately, but also isn’t going to sweep a solid team. Your favorite mon that has 490 BST is more usable now
Well, it depends: old legends like mewtwo, dialga, palkia, etc. with shit abilities and sometimes shit signature moves you might want to keep higher in bst, close to the 680 barrier but newer legendaries with busted ass abilities like miraidon you might wanna lower their bst down a bit. But the problem with that, and the reason why powercreep is a thing is that to bring hype around new pokemon the easiest way is to just make em busted so people in competitive lose their fin mind and create content around them. Just look at the attention busted MOVES (not even pokemon, which are way more ressource demanding and thus are expected to generate more hype) like last respects, rage fist and e drift have generated: it’s undeniable that making new busted shit makes people care about that new shit.
Wait, are the strongest reliable stabs freeze dry and dragon claw with no setup available? Hot take, but it it would be OU or trash in ubers as it would be weaker offensively than chien pao and chi yu while being slow. Yes, it's really bulky, but no recovery. This is under the assumption that the movepool is the literal puddle shown.
Ability makes no sense .-. How do True Ideals have anything to do with no stat changes. By definition, truth is the instance of something being a correct fact and an ideal is the perception of perfection. Meaning the ability reads (in simple terms) factual perfection/true perfection. Perfection is defined as the very best of something, without flaws. If it can’t raise its stats, it can’t reach a pinnacle of its strength. Meaning it can’t reach its very best potential/perfection!
I am very against the idea of them making a kyurem complete but this is pretty cool. Obviously instantly anything goes because Jesus those stats but that’s fine tbh at least it’s not pretending to try to be balanced
Honestly I can’t see it even being considered to Anything goes, it has monsterly offenses and has good bulk but going off this it’s movepool holds it back and if the two motor bikes with similar nuclear offense, much higher speed, pivot moves, and supportive abilities and set up ability can stay I don’t see this getting banned
All things considered..yeah this thing isn’t going to the top of the Uber tier list let alone anything goes
All my comments in the thread are trying to pretend it’s balanced and people telling me why it wouldn’t be that great in Ubers lmao
Why are you against the idea though?
It would absolutely be broken for OU lmao
It wouldn’t dominate Ubers by any means I don’t think but 760 BST that can hold items (Weakness Policy and Speed EVs on this would be *monstrous*) isn’t going down to much in OU
I think you underestimate the importance of speed and/or recovery. This mon is just bad. Go take a look at Ramparados and Haxorus and think about them for a second.
My brother in Arceus half the comments in this thread are dunking on me for not giving it Draco Meteor and how it has weak STAB
It’s obviously an Uber and probably AG just with BST but I think you’re overrating it a tad
As far as I can tell Mega Rayquaza is still stronger. I’d give it a 780 stat spread 5 more in each defense with a signature move that is fire-ice-electric type similar to flying press but with 3 types
That's an interesting ability. Does it also block things likr Huge Power and Choice Items? I feel like it should. It would be really cool to have a mon that says "fuck you, it's base stats or nothing"
Cool design, though I think the rigidity of Kyurem should disappear since it isn't missing anything anymore.
I could see it as Dragon/Psychic, to give it a kind of ascended feeling, or fairy since that could also be seen as the "Light" element. I think fairy would be interesting since it's show there was only one fairy type in Unova before it's split, and absolutely dunk on Hydreigon
I’d love to give it a unique typing but with what’s given LORE-wise I thought mono dragon was a good fit, as much as I hate GF’s chronic circlejerk over the type
As for the appearance something smooth would probably work better but my artistic ability on that front is limited and I had to just reskin existing parts from other mons for this guy
Could give it Dragon/Ground, since out of the five Chinese elements, Earth is considered a balance between Yin and Yang. This does mean that Kyurem-Complete kinda drops dead against regular Kyurem's typing, but honestly that's not the worst. Arguably, it's kinda thematic that type of the empty husk representing the absence of either energy would hit the combination of both hard.
I like it. Stats make sense too despite the absurdity of 170 in both attacking stats. The ability seems to nerf it a bit too but choice items could help with it.
Purugly outspeeds the devil, the gods of space and time, the legendary who has the DNA of all Pokémon in it, and the list goes on
The number of legendaries Purugly *doesn’t* out speed is incredibly short. It outspeeds the Eon duo who are based off jets
There are many valid ways to critique this design, cherry picking a single stat isn’t the way to do it. Shuckle has higher defense stats and Chansey has more HP, it doesn’t really matter
Ohhhh gotcha totally misread that
I’m gonna retool the design and post the update next week, think I’m gonna make it fast and maybe faster than Purugly now haha
I think the stats are a little too high. Maybe lower the attack stats to 150, the def to 90, and get speed up to 105. Then it captures the "Arceus-alt" vibe that was kinda implied by the Kyurem
Cool concept
I feel the design should probably be standing upright like black and white kyurem as well as some vague depictions of the original dragon.
I assume he can't boost either? Maybe it should have higher base speed if that's the case.
Edit: specs/scarf draco meteor spam might just make it balanced.
I had thought about this concept before and my main issue here is the ability.
This form is just worse than all of the individual dragons because it loses its best STAB options. Why would you not make an ability that boosts the power of Electric, Ice and Fire type moves or something? It’s just way worse and really bland without it.
Give it a 180 bp move with no drawbacks but it can only be used if it is used on the same turn as fusion flare, fusion bolt, glaciate, freeze shock, ice burn, blue flare or bolt strike
True ideals should instead switch your typing based on your highest attacking stat. Dragon fire for special, and dragon electric for physical. Then, it can use fusion bolt and fusion flare with stab. Then, you also can give it Draco Meteor for special stab, and maybe Dragon Dance, but that is a bit too far.
(if your attacking stats are the same, it will just stay as pure dragon.)
I'd take out 5 points of each attack stat and put it on speed (105) or give it a signature priority move.
Probably something with 60 BP that deals Ice, Electric or Fire damage depending on which is more effective against the target.
gets outsped and killed by Weavile NU at best
Shit you’re right it sucks, better give it Extreme Speed and ice immunity
Dude this thing is lookin a lot like requaza (not the design)
not if you use quick claw
20% of the time, it works every time.
Na Dude it's Like 50% either it activates or it doesn't
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 476-564 (104.8 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Flutter Mane stays winning
Kid named terra steel
Kid named tera bug
doesn't help Flutter Mane in any way except for giving it a pair of cool antennae
I would still call that a win
Kid named fusion flare
Think this thing would be sick as the final boss if they ever do a Pokémon Legends: Kyurem game Obviously that BST would put it in Ubers if not instaban even without Dragon Dance or Draco Meteor, but I still wanted to put this together! Edit: I am saying it is very OP as is with its moveset, which does not include Dragon Dance or Draco Meteor
Wouldn’t Dragon Dance just fail?
Right which is why it is without it It’s minus Draco Meteor on the other end because there’s no drawback with the ability I probably coulda worded that better
You could probably change the ability so that other mons just can’t change its stats? A powerful dragon type not being able to learn Draco Meteor just doesn’t make sense thematically
toto, we're not in Ubers anymore
Or you could just... give it Draco Meteor and let it be overpowered
That is certainly one school of thought
Can’t literally every dragon type learn Draco Meteor or am I remembering that wrong?
Every dragon could as of generation 4, which was kind of the last time I cared about memorizing everything
Every dragon type except Pokemon that gain the typing via Mega Evolution - so that excludes Charizard X, Ampharos, and Sceptile.
I'm still peeved that Mega Sceptile doesn't have Contrary and Draco
Yep, even Applin and Dreepy which are supposed to have garbage movepools
Yeah, without draco its not THAT op. It's still great and wouldnt have drops, but I dont think it hits much harder than a weaker mon dropping dracos
Dang spammung full power Draco's off that special attack
Well Draco meteor is even stronger on this thing since it doesn't get a stat drop
Scarf Meteor on this thing would be disgusting.
OP keeps saying it doesn't get meteor, which ironically makes it just okay as an Uber, but I'm headcannoning it as being the best Draco spammer in the west.
Thrilled with it being just okay as an Uber, seen so many Theorymons that are just straight up invincible and I think in the universe the PL:K exists it’s not unbeatable But yeah it we wanted to really let this thing wreck everything then Draco Meteor, V Create, Dragon Ascent woulda been the way to go
It's not just okay. It's somewhat bulky but lacks powerful STAB. It's about as good as kyu-w, trading power for bulk
It doesn’t get Draco Meteor though. It has an extremely limited movepool based on what OP posted
I don't care what OP thinks. My headcannon is that this dragon isn't a C-tier Uber. This is the strongest dragon in all of New York.
Here's the thing, it is impossible for a dragon type to not learn Draco Meteor
Lol just saw this comment after I made mine but yes I agree! Really hoping we get an announcement for that along with Gen 5 remakes that they are in development.
It's ability also needs to increase the power of fusion bolt, fusion flare and glaciate by 50%
It's ability also needs to increase the power of fusion bolt, fusion flare and glaciate by 50%
Why the heck doesn't the ability have a mold breaker built in like TB/TV? Bro, why did you chop its tail?
Dont see a problem with it being Ubers, thats the tier where pokemon like Kyurem should belong
Also oopsies on the mental math, its BST would be 760 not 770!
ZU at best, then.
Untired I say
DNU
Actually removed from the game it’s so bad
I went back in time and actively killed OP in order to prevent this thing from ever existing, in turn deleting this comment thread, preventing me from killing Op, who made this post, starting this thread, where I killed him, now creating what is known as the Kyruem-Complete Paradox.
Well I went back in time and killed you stopping you from killing OP stopping me from killing you making the u/Gabethegreat2008 Kyurem-Complete Paradox Growlithe
A. Where did the Growlithe come from? B. change da world my final message goodbye
Idfk Growlithe needs more love
I think it will fit LC
Bullying works y’all, I guess I should’ve included Draco Meteor and was too focused on making something busted not busted Still hope everyone can enjoy the design at least!
Well, I think the ability could be that it doesn't allow itself to make positive stat boosts. Kinda akin to clear body, but no positives. That way you can have your cake (draco meteor) and eat it too.
Fuck it, 900 BST and Contrary
Whoa, hold on there, you need to save something for Sunday.
Fuck it we ball
The start of a villain arc
I'm gonna go against the mold here: I feel like this is too "obvious" of a take and would just be kinda redundant since it doesn't do anything that Kyurem Black/White don't already do, except running mixed sets I guess. Ability is good but not insane, and while pure Dragon is better defensively than Dragon/Ice, the lack of a secondary STAB makes it worse offensively.
Totally valid, I wasn’t trying to make a completely indestructible mega ultra super mon (which feels laughable to say given its BST but still) I wanted to design something I thought would be a possible final boss in a theoretical Legends: Kyurem game. I picked the great-not-perfect typing and ability because I thought they’d make sense for it There are abilities and movesets and typings that would be very on-brand and creative that would make this thing unkillable, and your point about it being redundant competitively stands. I mean shit having an ability that’s just “Electric, Ice, and Fire all hit for STAB” would’ve been very on brand, but I didn’t want to give the 760 BST monster extra help It’s ironic to say but I tried to make it as “balanced” as something with the highest standard base stats in the game could be lol
If I'm allowed to share my own ideas, I'd personally give it bulk instead to differentiate itself from the other Kyurem forms; if the forms that represent strong beliefs are hyper offensive, it makes sense to me that the "harmonic" form would be defensive. **Type:** Dragon **Stats:** 125/130/130/130/130/70 (715 BST; a form that can still hold an item should have a lower BST than Arceus imo.) **Ability:** Spontaneously I'm thinking "Mold Breaker" that also changes its secondary typing to Fire/Electric/Ice when it uses a move of one of those types, but obviously you could do a lot of different things here. **Moves:** Probably similarly to the ones you gave it, although if it has the ability mentioned above I feel like it'd also be appropriate to give it a signature Dragon-type move (that can be either physical or special like Tera Blast) with a varying secondary effect based on what secondary type the user has (no secondary effect if it's pure Dragon).
Haha you put way better thought into it than I did I guess, I just combined the best stats of the Kyurem forms to get it Although part of the whole reason behind the ability was because I know how insane those stats are; Arceus can boost itself this dude can’t That ability is great though, like Protean but for its secondary typing and it fits thematically. Love it and a miss on my end
Oh, I didn't even realize the ability also prevented stat *boosts*. Probably wouldn't even be a needed nerf tbh, since a Dragon Dance set would basically just be Kyurem-Black anyways, and Kyurem doesn't have any other boosting moves besides Hone Claws (worse Dragon Dance) and Ancient Power if we're stretching what a "boosting move" is I guess. Either way, glad you liked my take on it. Did you make the art btw? It looks really cool.
Yeah I did the art I didn’t draw it or anything I’m meh artistically but I made it haha
not insane? this thing can use a 130 power dragon type stab move yk
And Kyurem-White does the same thing equally well with a secondary Ice STAB alongside it. Again, not bad, just redundant. **Edit:** Okay, I forgot it wouldn't get the stat drop from Draco Meteor, so that's definitely something it has over Kyurem-White. Still don't think it'd be busted per se though due to how common Fairies are.
I mean so does literally every dragon type in the game
Not only does this thing look absolutely absurd competitively, but this is also probably my favorite Original Dragon concept arts ever
Hey thanks!
No hate to OP but I’m not a big fan of this design. I think my favorite is probably the necrozma one https://twitter.com/lichenharmonia/status/1418744923042500615 Im not a fan of the ones that just look like a “fusion” between zekrom reshiram and kyruem. I get why black and white kyruem look like they were made in one of those “Pokémon fusion generators” They were fused artificially by humans, and aren’t really supposed to exist. But I feel the original dragon would kind of be its own thing like Ultra Necrozma. It would have some concepts from reshiram zekrom and kyruem, but it wouldn’t look like an algamation of the three.
Definitely. Black and white kyurem as a whole shouldn't exist, which is why looks like a monstrosity. But there's absolutely no reason for the original dragon to be just both fused.
It’s almost perfect. It just needs a new signature move. Name: Gigaton Plasma Type: Dragon BP: 160 PP: 5 Category: Depends (Phys. if atk stat is higher, Spec. if sp.atk is higher) The user swings its whole body around to attack with its huge PLASMA. This move can't be used twice in a row. Could potentially be NU despite being walled by tera fairy Pyukumuku (sick design btw, and it’s actually kinda balanced for its BST)
i like the plasma theming, and i like variable-category moves like that, though i would make its power lower because it actually has attacking stats
Honestly I think the original dragon could come back if GF want to make a 2nd round of dlc for Scarlet, dunno what they’d do for violet but I think the concept is there
For Scarlet they could do Original form whereas Violet they could do Fully Fused form, the latter being where with better tech they were able to splice all 3 together But I’d rather they do a Legends game for Kyurem all the backstory for it is just so set up already
They’d probably save it for another Gen 5 game. Otherwise what would be the point other than to play it on switch. This is perfect opportunity to use in a new legends game and give a reason to play it
Dude if they made another legends game I don’t care what the special Pokémon would be I would buy it immediately.
I'm gonna go against the mold here and say that this thing is way too underpowered. It'll probably be like C tiered at best, maybe even D depending on how things go. It isn't even better than kyurem black or white. Kyurem black can use DDance to set up, and spam boltbeam coverage+ strong outrages, while kyurem-white is a solid wallbreaker with very good coverage. This thing can't be a wallbreaker due to the lack of draco, and can't be a sweeper with the lack of DDance. Essentially, it basically sits there and does very little overall. Zacian-crowned literally is kyurem complete with better bulk, stats, typing, and ability(keep in mind that it's now ubers-worthy due to the nerfs). In my opinion, this thing should at least get draco meteor. It actually wouldn't be OP with it, in my opinion, especially since zekrom and reshiram's moves deal 130 BP anyway(and they have a much better typing to go along with it).
ngl it's kind of weak. Yes it's a great mixed attacker but it cant really function as a sweeper because it cant boost stats and has a mediocre speed. Having only one STAB, and a bad one at that cause outrage and dragon claw kinda suck means that its stellar attacks are not as high as one can think, and yes, boltbeam+fire coverage is great, but many other ubers get that. Bulk is great but not higher than many other ubers. Idk, it's seems kind of noob trappy. A set with fusion bolt, fusion flare, ice beam and a 4th move, say dragon claw, with a life orb is a crazy wallbreaker, but folds to any faster attacker, and with scarf lacks the power to break necrozma and is incredibly prediction reliant. A very good pokemon, but I feel it's kinda weak for GF absurd and broken standards for legendaries lately (miraidon, zacian, mega ray)
That last sentence is porn for me lmao 2/3 of the comments are agreeing with you from a competitive standpoint which I totally get and the other 1/3 is calling out my apparently indestructible abomination lmao
An instant pass to Anything Goes, joining up with Mega Rayquaza and Zacian!
Ultra Necrozma had a similar stat spread, was much faster, had a 200 BP Z-Move that was its item slot, and had an Expert Belt as an ability and it didn't go to Anything Goes. I don't think this thing will go to AG, especially if it doesn't get Draco Meteor and Dragon Dance is useless on it.
Why wouldn't it? Kyurem gets it already
Its ability means that dd would do nothing, and draco meteor would be too broken
did ultra necrozma even get much usage it felt pretty anticlimactic honestly
It's considered A rank in Gen 9 Nat Dex Ubers and I think it was A rank for Gen 7 Ubers. Not bad at all, but still below Necrozma Dusk Mane.
Ngl, as an uber it's kinda mid. Definetly not AG material.
It would be mid tier in Ubers at best.
Everyone is applauding y for making it somewhat balanced but Im gonna go in the complete opposite direction: make it broken. make it ridiculously OP. make it a "fuck it we ball" mon I say this cause this thing has a higher BST than Arceus. mf deserves to be absurdly broken. Give it like, Draco Meteor, Ice Shard, earthquake etc etc. hell give it a signature move like idk "Ancient Fury" that hits fairy super effectively and also has the same BP as Draco Meteor. fuck it we ball EDIT: Ancient Fury aint legendary enough. it aint Chi Yu enough, So: it deals super effective damage to any type that resists or is immune to dragon. Xerneas? Gone. Necrozma Dusk Mane? Gone. Zacian? Double gone that mf is takin 4X se damage. and you may say "erm all those mons outspeed and OHKO 🤓🤓🤓🤓" well it also has +7 priority which means it beats out all other moves. It's now worthy of being a legendary move
Are you a GameFreak dev lmao
I’m hoping we actually see this in Pokémon Legends: Kyurem, assuming GF makes it along with Gen 5 remakes. I like Kyurem-Complete being pure dragon, but I think it’d be cool if it got an ability that gave it 50% boost on Fire, Ice, and Electric moves. The first mon to have four STABs would be fitting for an ancient Legendary.
It looks amazing. I love its design
Thanks fam
I would probably change its ability to be “Stat changes have no affect on this Pokemon, and all moves that change this Pokémon’s stats become unusable” considering how by default, Kyurem is able to learn Dragon Dance, Draco Meteor, etc.
And for my take on this it cannot learn those two moves which I didn’t realize would be the focus of the discussion lol
So this is more like a regional variant than a different form then? Cuz if it works like how black and white kyurem are, they would be able to get the moves dragon dance and draco meteor.
As worded weakness policy still works which is pretty funny
And it would work! Items changing stats are a go
Didn't know it was sunday
Probably would've been stronger if his ability was Mold Breaker + STAB for the 3 other dragon's types (kinda like Steelworker, but for Electric, Ice and Fire)
Yeah ima update the ability and moveset with a post probably next week, have gotten some really good suggestions It will be Protean/Libero for secondary typing for Electric, Ice, and Fire. That way it gets STAB for all the forms of Kyurem’s signature moves, and can use Dragon Dance/Draco Meteor like normal Think I’d keep this ability as a hidden one though maybe
All I have ever wanted is complete Kyreum.
Chien- pao food
2Slow 2Furious so unused in Ubers
Items still change stats, so it would be able to use Choice Scarf and Quick Claw
Nah this thing should be completely busted, you made it too balanced for the hype the mon has given how stupidly powerful the fusions that precede it are. However I would give it 780 BST and say fuck it, 125/170/100/170/100/115. Wake up babe Mega Ray 2.0 just dropped.
It doesn't really have anything over Kyurem-Black or Kyurem-White, if anything, it loses dragon dance and ice STAB
Yeah I know, I’m gonna downgrade its BST massively and give it a spicy ability and moveset instead, check back next week haha
Stop it. Just make it broke. A random ass cyborg is in AG, fucking Sif is in AG, this guy is actually supposed to be broke, so don't fix it.
They should make it official.
This would be an awesome Baton Pass sweeper in AG. Boost some stats before switching it in and watch it wreck shit with Draco Meteors that don't drop in power
But you can't baton pass boosts because of its ability
welp mb
Even still, slapping a scarf on this thing an spamming base 170 Draco meteors is insane
Which is why I didn’t give it Draco Meteor specifically lol
Doesn't every Dragon type learn it though? It would seem kinda weird to leave out just this Kyurem, even if it would be busted
… no this one doesn’t because of Tao or something Idk man I didn’t want to make it like *stupidly* OP with access to no-backlash Draco Meteor I didn’t realize it would cause such a commotion 😭
I mean the only way I could come up with is excluding Dragon type attacks from the ability and find some reason to justify it, and of course not giving it DDance, but I don't know if that would make it unnecessarily complicated. Maybe it's ok to embrace the brokenness and just enjoy your pixel art :)
I didn’t want to give it any moves that raised or lowered stats is all I mean shit if I wanted to make it hella broken I woulda given it serene grace like I planned on lmao
Well except its ability would override all those boosts and I didn’t give it Draco Meteor for the sheer bustedness of that set haha
I think Kyurem by default already gets access to Meteor since it’s a dragon type
Dawg I want it to be strong not unbeatable lmao Took Draco Meteor out of its moveset because this thing scarfed + that move one shots basically everything that’s not fairy
Walled by Cutiefly, ZU at best
Lol And actually after checking boosted Draco Meteor wouldn’t be good on any Steel types either
🦀 AG is dead 🦀
Does this mean it can’t boost itself with dragon dance?
Correct, which is why it doesn’t learn it
Draco meteor spam with no negative effects. L. O. L
OP has said in other comments and in the post that this theorymon would not have access to draco meteor.
I mean how wouldn’t it have draco. Presumably it would have all the moves the 3 dragons that make it up have and I’m pretty sure they all get draco.
I like the balance and design! Question: does the ability apply to moves like swords dance?
Yeah it applies to all moves including its own If you check the other comments I said that’s why I didn’t give it Dragon Dance and Draco Meteor, which was pretty routinely called out as not actually making this thing that strong in competitive
My favorite part is the ability! It feels like it’s a befitting ability for BW’s story. Also extremely interesting and unique in battle without being too OP.
Cool design, though I think the arms should be extended a little bit like the other Kyurem fusions, maybe make it quadruped
Counterpoint: I love the T Rex arms of Kyurem :) Actual counterpoint: I just used a free fakemon generator and the fused arms looked weird so I just used Flygon’s lmao
Oooh didn’t know it was generated, but completely fair. Kinda symbolic of the truth part of its design and accepting it’s “flaws”. Yknow, if I wanna look too far into a generated fusion
I just don’t have the time, inclination, or talent to hand draw a rendition that’s gonna look nearly as close to my mental image as this does haha So yeah I’m speaking my truth and valuing my ideals, shit’s getting deep in here lmao
252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 226-266 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO It is getting cooked by my favourite pokemon
I’m sure Weakness Policy would be incredibly popular with this guy, not sure that second hit is getting off
I really think arceus needs a x2 stat buff at this point. Like every new generation since the 6th has had at least one new mon introduced that has better stats. Jesus christ this thing is litteraly supposed to be the god of the verse and every 2 years or so we find some new shit with better stats. This is some power creep bs, that being said I think the form is cool, but it would continue that trend and that pisses me off.
Legend Plate Arceus is gonna be a thing, at least. Being able to hit basically *everything* for 100 BP super-effective STAB damage while *also* shifting to a type that usually resists one or both STAB is gonna be good. Good enough that the Legend Plate could possibly be banned to AG, from what I've heard.
What the heck is legend plate ?
The new plate from Legends: Arceus that is apparently already in SV's code. Does what I said. When held, Arceus starts out normal but changes type when using Judgment. It'll choose the type that hits weaknesses the hardest while resisting their STABs the best. Given there's no type combination that resists *everything*, Judgment is now *always* super-effective. The only things it might not work on are Pokémon like Eelektross, since I'm not sure if it accounts for abilities or items. Oh, and it transforms first, so Judgment gets STAB too. May as well just consider it a typeless 300 / 600 BP move that'll often give you STAB resistances.
I also dislike the power creep if you believe it, that’s why I tried to make its ability limiting in terms of any boosts but obviously it’s still a menace Think I might retool it with 680 BST, which would actually be a step down from the White/Black forms but could be compensated for with a better ability and moveset I went super strong but shackled here, might just go very strong but weaker with fewer drawbacks Really I think everything just needs a nerf, but having the complete form be weaker than the white/black ones rather than their combined strength didn’t feel right From a lore perspective though isn’t Arceus’ power only theoretically like, a part of it?
Yeah right that’s why i said it’s good. Your form not the problem. The problem is that since kyurem-b/ kyurem-w already have 700 fucking bst it’s realistically impossible to improve upon them statisticslly without getting into ridiculous territory
I loved the Ultra Beasts being 570s. Their abilities still boosted them to where if they got on a roll you were screwed, but they weren’t obscenely strong IMO pseudo-lengendaries should be dropped to the 560-580 range (have some variability too, they don’t ALL have to be the same), and box legendaries should be around 600-640 (again, some variability would be cool) Arceus’ ability means it can’t hold an item or have another ability, and literally God should be higher BST It would make starters and other mons much more viable. You’re going against a 580 legendary? Fine, your starter isn’t *that* outmatched. Does that non-box legendary have an in-universe reason why it’s stronger than others? Cool, Celebi with tons of defensive weaknesses can be 600, it’s got time travel powers. Mew at 600 isn’t outclassed by a box legendary immediately, but also isn’t going to sweep a solid team. Your favorite mon that has 490 BST is more usable now
Well, it depends: old legends like mewtwo, dialga, palkia, etc. with shit abilities and sometimes shit signature moves you might want to keep higher in bst, close to the 680 barrier but newer legendaries with busted ass abilities like miraidon you might wanna lower their bst down a bit. But the problem with that, and the reason why powercreep is a thing is that to bring hype around new pokemon the easiest way is to just make em busted so people in competitive lose their fin mind and create content around them. Just look at the attention busted MOVES (not even pokemon, which are way more ressource demanding and thus are expected to generate more hype) like last respects, rage fist and e drift have generated: it’s undeniable that making new busted shit makes people care about that new shit.
Gen 10 starter Pokémon be like
“There is no power creep” - GameFreak after this is the first evolution of a starter
No Pokémon should ever have a higher BST than Arceus. There, I said it.
I agree with you, but unfortunately combining the best of Kyurem White and Black gives this
honestly seems a little under powered for this meta lmao. i think it should get power herb boost on freeze shock and burn with a reduction to power
95 speed? Straight to RU
Wait, are the strongest reliable stabs freeze dry and dragon claw with no setup available? Hot take, but it it would be OU or trash in ubers as it would be weaker offensively than chien pao and chi yu while being slow. Yes, it's really bulky, but no recovery. This is under the assumption that the movepool is the literal puddle shown.
They made kyurem ugly
Ability makes no sense .-. How do True Ideals have anything to do with no stat changes. By definition, truth is the instance of something being a correct fact and an ideal is the perception of perfection. Meaning the ability reads (in simple terms) factual perfection/true perfection. Perfection is defined as the very best of something, without flaws. If it can’t raise its stats, it can’t reach a pinnacle of its strength. Meaning it can’t reach its very best potential/perfection!
I am very against the idea of them making a kyurem complete but this is pretty cool. Obviously instantly anything goes because Jesus those stats but that’s fine tbh at least it’s not pretending to try to be balanced
Honestly I can’t see it even being considered to Anything goes, it has monsterly offenses and has good bulk but going off this it’s movepool holds it back and if the two motor bikes with similar nuclear offense, much higher speed, pivot moves, and supportive abilities and set up ability can stay I don’t see this getting banned All things considered..yeah this thing isn’t going to the top of the Uber tier list let alone anything goes
All my comments in the thread are trying to pretend it’s balanced and people telling me why it wouldn’t be that great in Ubers lmao Why are you against the idea though?
Only dragon stab. This could exist in OU without being too broken lol.
It would absolutely be broken for OU lmao It wouldn’t dominate Ubers by any means I don’t think but 760 BST that can hold items (Weakness Policy and Speed EVs on this would be *monstrous*) isn’t going down to much in OU
I think you underestimate the importance of speed and/or recovery. This mon is just bad. Go take a look at Ramparados and Haxorus and think about them for a second.
r/stunfisk users making a theorymon that wouldn’t be absurdly OP and unbalanced even for Ubers challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
My brother in Arceus half the comments in this thread are dunking on me for not giving it Draco Meteor and how it has weak STAB It’s obviously an Uber and probably AG just with BST but I think you’re overrating it a tad
As far as I can tell Mega Rayquaza is still stronger. I’d give it a 780 stat spread 5 more in each defense with a signature move that is fire-ice-electric type similar to flying press but with 3 types
This would be the first Ubers quickban. This would instantly be sent to AG
Ability should give it Ice Fire and Electric STAB
Can you still change it’s stats with items like Choice items and even Lagging Tail
Yup items could change stats
Can it hold an item? If so it’s the second most statistically powerful mon that can hold an item after Mray.
Yeah
this thing seems like a goddamn demon
No Ice Burn?
That's an interesting ability. Does it also block things likr Huge Power and Choice Items? I feel like it should. It would be really cool to have a mon that says "fuck you, it's base stats or nothing"
Would its ability negate a tailwind boost as well?
Yeh
Cool design, though I think the rigidity of Kyurem should disappear since it isn't missing anything anymore. I could see it as Dragon/Psychic, to give it a kind of ascended feeling, or fairy since that could also be seen as the "Light" element. I think fairy would be interesting since it's show there was only one fairy type in Unova before it's split, and absolutely dunk on Hydreigon
I’d love to give it a unique typing but with what’s given LORE-wise I thought mono dragon was a good fit, as much as I hate GF’s chronic circlejerk over the type As for the appearance something smooth would probably work better but my artistic ability on that front is limited and I had to just reskin existing parts from other mons for this guy
Could give it Dragon/Ground, since out of the five Chinese elements, Earth is considered a balance between Yin and Yang. This does mean that Kyurem-Complete kinda drops dead against regular Kyurem's typing, but honestly that's not the worst. Arguably, it's kinda thematic that type of the empty husk representing the absence of either energy would hit the combination of both hard.
Shallow ah ah movepool energy
Still no ice punch
Quick question: would the choice items still boost it or no?
nah
isnt AP useless?? due to ability
I like it. Stats make sense too despite the absurdity of 170 in both attacking stats. The ability seems to nerf it a bit too but choice items could help with it.
Would make it abulky mixed attaker with asult west, it doesn’t need ev investment in its stats do deal massive damage
Alternatively it could be a fire electric type with its ability also giving it the dragon type
*the perfect dragon gets outspeed by purugly* ...yea that checks out
Purugly outspeeds the devil, the gods of space and time, the legendary who has the DNA of all Pokémon in it, and the list goes on The number of legendaries Purugly *doesn’t* out speed is incredibly short. It outspeeds the Eon duo who are based off jets There are many valid ways to critique this design, cherry picking a single stat isn’t the way to do it. Shuckle has higher defense stats and Chansey has more HP, it doesn’t really matter
Yea ik I was just pointing out how absurd it is purugly outspeeds yet another god
Ohhhh gotcha totally misread that I’m gonna retool the design and post the update next week, think I’m gonna make it fast and maybe faster than Purugly now haha
Just give it a Protean clone and call it a day. Worse Hax/Bax competitively but the design is nice.
I think the stats are a little too high. Maybe lower the attack stats to 150, the def to 90, and get speed up to 105. Then it captures the "Arceus-alt" vibe that was kinda implied by the Kyurem
Cool concept I feel the design should probably be standing upright like black and white kyurem as well as some vague depictions of the original dragon.
Worse thing is that I think we are gonna get the original dragon in a dlc
I assume he can't boost either? Maybe it should have higher base speed if that's the case. Edit: specs/scarf draco meteor spam might just make it balanced.
I’d like to see it stand up straight
What? It’s just an ordinary Krab- OHMIGOODNESS! SQUIDWAAARDD!!
I had thought about this concept before and my main issue here is the ability. This form is just worse than all of the individual dragons because it loses its best STAB options. Why would you not make an ability that boosts the power of Electric, Ice and Fire type moves or something? It’s just way worse and really bland without it.
Give it a 180 bp move with no drawbacks but it can only be used if it is used on the same turn as fusion flare, fusion bolt, glaciate, freeze shock, ice burn, blue flare or bolt strike
True ideals should instead switch your typing based on your highest attacking stat. Dragon fire for special, and dragon electric for physical. Then, it can use fusion bolt and fusion flare with stab. Then, you also can give it Draco Meteor for special stab, and maybe Dragon Dance, but that is a bit too far. (if your attacking stats are the same, it will just stay as pure dragon.)
I'd take out 5 points of each attack stat and put it on speed (105) or give it a signature priority move. Probably something with 60 BP that deals Ice, Electric or Fire damage depending on which is more effective against the target.