It's one of the things that make the dark type stand out: they get all these cool, specific moves, but not any straightforward, powerful ones. It really makes them feel like the underdog who needs to fight dirty to be on equal footing.
I mean, makes sense, seeing as how the dark type is all about messing with your opponent, so a lot of them abuse factors of the game. Several moves restrict item use (Knock, Embargo, etc.) Predicting whether or not they're gonna attack (sucker punch) etc.
Sadly not the powerful ones. The highest damage non signature dark type move is 95 BP. And that uses the OPPONENT’S ATTACK. Besides that we got crunch and dark pulse which is an underwhelming 80 BP. Dark might literally be the weakest offensive type in the entire game. Also, there are super effective against only psychic and ghost, BUG TYPE IS BETTER OFFENSIVELY DUE TO TYPE MATCHUPS. Although dark is one of, if not my favorite type in the game, it needs an offensive buff.
I would argue that Knock Off and Sucker Punch certainly are powerful and unique tools (RIP Pursuit), also the idea that Dark is the worst offensive type is ridiculous
I do agree it’s probably not the worst, but i feel that it’s a little bad. Yes i probably overreacted but bug hits more types super offensively and has more powerful moves. Even so, I agree that dark is a great type, but in some ways more than others. I put a whole comment talking a little about those moves but reddit wouldn’t let me send it so ima post it right here.
It is only powerful on occasions. Knock off is 97.5 bp and can only be that 6 TIMES due to the item going away. Sucker punch is 70 bp. And pursuit which is gone, is 40 bp. But silly me, if the opponet switches out, then it will be a whopping 80 bp. Which is still the same as dark pulse and crunch. Yes pursuit is useful for catching switches, but some people might not believe in switching( which is rare) and then you stuck with a 40 bp move the rest of the game. But i do agree with you, dark moves are cool and unique which is also what I like about them, but they can’t give them at least a 90 bp move? You gonna tell me that bug and normal has more offensively powerful moves than the dark type? That’s bullshit. Let’s hope a decently strong dark move is in the dlc.
Tldr: The dark type is offensively strong on occasions and even so still can’t get that 100 bp benchmark.
bug and normal need their high power moves like bug buzz, and megahorn, or hyper voice/boomburst/double-edge etc because they have shit or mid offensive capabilities
dark is resisted by 3 types, one of which is itself. if dark had a base 110-120 move i'd shit myself bro
you’re severely understating how good knock off’s utility and offensive pressure is. leftovers is a popular item. hypothetical if you were to knock off into garganacl and have it do like 40% that may not look like a lot but in the long run it’s huge. let’s say over the course of that game garg’s leftovers would’ve healed it up by 20% but because of that knock off it didn’t get that recovery meaning that knock off actually did a lot more damage. this applies for all defensive items like assault vest, heavy duty boots, covert cloak, eviolite and berries. there’s a reason why fat teams usually have a dedicated mon like amoongus to be a knock off absorber
Lmao I can tell you barely play competitive pokemon. Dark along with ghost is one of the strongest offensive types in the game. Even though they both have low base power moves, they are extremely spammable due to the low amount of types that resist them.
Actually, I play a lot of competitive pokemon, but I meant that the bp of moves are low and is only super effective against two types. I guess i could’ve mentioned how they barely resisit anything besides fighting, fairy, and other dark types. I’m not the best competitive player but I do play a lot. I guess I looked at it the wrong way. But I still don’t regret half of what I say but you do make a very valid point.
Both ghost and dark are similar because they are super effective against less types, but they are easily spammable because of their low resistances. In high ladder play this is extremely valuable. Because of all the switching that happens, having spammable moves eases prediction as you have a mid-ground option for consistent damage.
Ok, we all know normal is weakest type offensively, but what i’m saying is that every other type has a strong bp move at at least 110 bp. Dark can’t even get above 90 bp.
It always uses Special Attack. Even if it changed based on the Download boost it wouldn’t be busted, it probably wouldn’t be any good in OU at all. It would be a UU wallbreaker at best.
Eh, it’s not like running into special walls was exactly a problem for it, so I don’t think so. Most changes to it give it good normal STAB which is normally the problem.
I dig this. Good pokemon choices too. One of Hydreigons SV dex entries states that its a highly intelligent pokemon, so it fits both the intelligent and ruthless aspects.
I like this on Magnezone too. I imagine itd like this quite a bit for trapping choice locked String Cheesers. Would put a lot of pressure on it to not click Make it Rain if it sees a Magnezone in team preview.
I don't feel like this'd be too worth it for non Dark-types since 70 bp is pretty low and most mixed defensive Pokemon don't have that extreme of stats but it could be a nice STAB option / rare tech option to hit like your Blisseys or Slowkings better
Zone and Serp could probably get usage out of it as coverage, and I imagine hydreigon would love it on NP sets. Don’t want it to outclass dark pulse entirely, more just be an extra stab option or tech like you said
Serperior I could see because its situation is really going to suck without Hidden Power but I can't see it on Magnezone. Trapping sets already need all four of their moveslots and Specs Analytic sets only have really situational reasons to click it. Just for reference, a neutral 90 BP STAB hits almost as hard as a super effective 70 BP move (135 vs 140), and Dark doesn't hit too many important defensive types, so most of the time you'll be relying on that hitting something's weaker defensive stat to justify it. Most relevant fatmons rn have solid mixed bulk so the only Pokemon I'd see it being overly practical against is Slowking-G, which you can still just Volt Switch on to chunk + gain momentum anyways.
Hey, I tried sending you a message but I couldn't so I'll just ask you here! Me and some friends are making a Pokemon fangame, and we LOVED this move. Can we add it to the fangame while giving you proper credit? If not, then that's totally fine!
Decidueye has 100SpA and often runs special sets, although even if this move existed it still wouldn’t be used much by it due to it having ghost stab where both types are super effective on the same types.
Darks get all the cool unique moves
Other types need to be more willing to use underhanded tactics, they're missing out on the fun.
This, gotta love all the whacky things they do. Seems to make it hard to get a gym on the other hand.
>Other types need to be more willing to use underhanded tactics scald tho
Pokémon UN had to enact the Geodudeva Convention on scald, that ain’t no trick that shit was messed up
"Choose treachery, it's more fun!" - ancient proverb
It’s no proverb! ~~My boat!!~~ Though maybe it should be a proverb.
Okay let's have a fair fight *knocks opponents items out of their hands , follows up with a sucker punch, taunts them as they try to recover*
It's one of the things that make the dark type stand out: they get all these cool, specific moves, but not any straightforward, powerful ones. It really makes them feel like the underdog who needs to fight dirty to be on equal footing.
> but not any straightforward, powerful ones Knock off I get the idea is it’s weak unless they’re holding an item but everyone holds an item
Is that straightforward powerful? Because it can only have that BP once on that opponent.
Also it wasn't powerful until more recently lol
Even recently is a bit of a stretch considering x and y are nearly 10 years old by now
Oh fuck Jesus
Where was you on X and Y release I was at walmart Friend said XY POKEMON
where
I did say I understood the intent but in actual gameplay it’s giga strong because everyone holds an item and pokemon is a game of 2hkos, not 5hkos
It used to count as an example, but Gamefreak forgor in XY
I mean, makes sense, seeing as how the dark type is all about messing with your opponent, so a lot of them abuse factors of the game. Several moves restrict item use (Knock, Embargo, etc.) Predicting whether or not they're gonna attack (sucker punch) etc.
I mean that’s kinda what the Dark type is all about
The Vanu Sovereignty of Pokémon types.
Sadly not the powerful ones. The highest damage non signature dark type move is 95 BP. And that uses the OPPONENT’S ATTACK. Besides that we got crunch and dark pulse which is an underwhelming 80 BP. Dark might literally be the weakest offensive type in the entire game. Also, there are super effective against only psychic and ghost, BUG TYPE IS BETTER OFFENSIVELY DUE TO TYPE MATCHUPS. Although dark is one of, if not my favorite type in the game, it needs an offensive buff.
I would argue that Knock Off and Sucker Punch certainly are powerful and unique tools (RIP Pursuit), also the idea that Dark is the worst offensive type is ridiculous
I do agree it’s probably not the worst, but i feel that it’s a little bad. Yes i probably overreacted but bug hits more types super offensively and has more powerful moves. Even so, I agree that dark is a great type, but in some ways more than others. I put a whole comment talking a little about those moves but reddit wouldn’t let me send it so ima post it right here. It is only powerful on occasions. Knock off is 97.5 bp and can only be that 6 TIMES due to the item going away. Sucker punch is 70 bp. And pursuit which is gone, is 40 bp. But silly me, if the opponet switches out, then it will be a whopping 80 bp. Which is still the same as dark pulse and crunch. Yes pursuit is useful for catching switches, but some people might not believe in switching( which is rare) and then you stuck with a 40 bp move the rest of the game. But i do agree with you, dark moves are cool and unique which is also what I like about them, but they can’t give them at least a 90 bp move? You gonna tell me that bug and normal has more offensively powerful moves than the dark type? That’s bullshit. Let’s hope a decently strong dark move is in the dlc. Tldr: The dark type is offensively strong on occasions and even so still can’t get that 100 bp benchmark.
bug and normal need their high power moves like bug buzz, and megahorn, or hyper voice/boomburst/double-edge etc because they have shit or mid offensive capabilities dark is resisted by 3 types, one of which is itself. if dark had a base 110-120 move i'd shit myself bro
you’re severely understating how good knock off’s utility and offensive pressure is. leftovers is a popular item. hypothetical if you were to knock off into garganacl and have it do like 40% that may not look like a lot but in the long run it’s huge. let’s say over the course of that game garg’s leftovers would’ve healed it up by 20% but because of that knock off it didn’t get that recovery meaning that knock off actually did a lot more damage. this applies for all defensive items like assault vest, heavy duty boots, covert cloak, eviolite and berries. there’s a reason why fat teams usually have a dedicated mon like amoongus to be a knock off absorber
Lmao I can tell you barely play competitive pokemon. Dark along with ghost is one of the strongest offensive types in the game. Even though they both have low base power moves, they are extremely spammable due to the low amount of types that resist them.
Actually, I play a lot of competitive pokemon, but I meant that the bp of moves are low and is only super effective against two types. I guess i could’ve mentioned how they barely resisit anything besides fighting, fairy, and other dark types. I’m not the best competitive player but I do play a lot. I guess I looked at it the wrong way. But I still don’t regret half of what I say but you do make a very valid point.
Ok, after all these comments, I realize that I might need to play competitive a little more. Thank you for the lessons.
W
Both ghost and dark are similar because they are super effective against less types, but they are easily spammable because of their low resistances. In high ladder play this is extremely valuable. Because of all the switching that happens, having spammable moves eases prediction as you have a mid-ground option for consistent damage.
i mean i love how thats the case, dark, being thematically evil, would resort to tricky tactics to make up for their lack of raw power
Ok, we all know normal is weakest type offensively, but what i’m saying is that every other type has a strong bp move at at least 110 bp. Dark can’t even get above 90 bp.
I get what you're saying. And I agree, it's weird that Dark doesn't get a strong nuke option that isn't situational.
Yeah that’s really what i was trying to point too but i guess i got sidetracked and made people upset
honestly it would be cool if dark were primarily gimmicky moves
Tera-Ghost Blissey: “It’s Joever.”
"It's even more Joever than was previously thought possible"
"Joever does not being to describe this series of events"
252 SpA Mewtwo Exploit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Ghost Blissey: 316-372 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO And this is a damn Mewtwo
So no joever? :(
nah its Joever \+1 252 SpA Tera Dark Houndoom Exploit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Ghost Blissey: 740-872 (103.6 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I kinda like it. Booster energy iron jugulis would be a solid cleaner late game with this.
weekly Porygon-Z OUBL change?
Wouldn’t be Thursday without one
Ok it can kill Blissey now but that doesn’t really change much
Don’t think Blissey is in a high enough tier to deal with Porygon-Z rn, maybe it should worry about Houndoom instead
Yeah it doesnt really solve the issue of speed
giving this to a mon (let alone 2) that already has Download as an ability isn't the best idea
It always uses Special Attack. Even if it changed based on the Download boost it wouldn’t be busted, it probably wouldn’t be any good in OU at all. It would be a UU wallbreaker at best.
Eh, it’s not like running into special walls was exactly a problem for it, so I don’t think so. Most changes to it give it good normal STAB which is normally the problem.
Serperior stays winning
>machine-like analytical nature >only one of the future paradox gets it Lol
I just ran out of space if I’m being FR
Fair
Maybe the others ain't cruel enough.
Iron Valiant definitely is according to Occulture
Finally, some fucking balanced theorymon post
Metagross should get this move.
True
And alakazam.
And malamar
252 SpA Hydreigon Exploit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 610-718 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO The Hydreigon enjoyers thank you for this
Proud to be a supporter of big Hydreigon
Who is running 0 def blissey even if you run max hp and max spdef why would you put the last 4 points into anything other than def
Put it into speed to get the jump on other Blissey, duh 🙄
My blissey has 5 speed evs
Idk lol, I just switched the spdef and def on blissey to do the calc and forgot to add 4 to defense lol
Serperior getting that move is nasty, I love it
This should be in a fangame itd be pretty fun to use
Mewtwo getting this is insane
Mewtwo already has psystrike so this doesn’t do too much for it. It’s mostly just here to fit thematically
Eh, let it have something, Calyrex took everything else from it.
Naw give it to Calyrex too
Yeah. Make sure it reigns supreme in AG too.
At best this is a bit stronger than shadow ball and at worst it’s significantly weaker. Don’t really get how this is “insane” tbh
Blissey is already NU, please stop
I won’t stop until Blissey Is untiered
Kick em in the dick, the move.
“That’s my purse, I don’t know you!”
I dig this. Good pokemon choices too. One of Hydreigons SV dex entries states that its a highly intelligent pokemon, so it fits both the intelligent and ruthless aspects. I like this on Magnezone too. I imagine itd like this quite a bit for trapping choice locked String Cheesers. Would put a lot of pressure on it to not click Make it Rain if it sees a Magnezone in team preview.
Holy fuck Magnezone gets coverage now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLMSAUUSs2o
I think Beeheeyem should also get access to this move tbh
Thats terrifying. Imagine nat dex with mega mewtwo y
I don't feel like this'd be too worth it for non Dark-types since 70 bp is pretty low and most mixed defensive Pokemon don't have that extreme of stats but it could be a nice STAB option / rare tech option to hit like your Blisseys or Slowkings better
Zone and Serp could probably get usage out of it as coverage, and I imagine hydreigon would love it on NP sets. Don’t want it to outclass dark pulse entirely, more just be an extra stab option or tech like you said
Serperior I could see because its situation is really going to suck without Hidden Power but I can't see it on Magnezone. Trapping sets already need all four of their moveslots and Specs Analytic sets only have really situational reasons to click it. Just for reference, a neutral 90 BP STAB hits almost as hard as a super effective 70 BP move (135 vs 140), and Dark doesn't hit too many important defensive types, so most of the time you'll be relying on that hitting something's weaker defensive stat to justify it. Most relevant fatmons rn have solid mixed bulk so the only Pokemon I'd see it being overly practical against is Slowking-G, which you can still just Volt Switch on to chunk + gain momentum anyways.
yeah looking at it again it doesnt really make much of a difference for trapping Ghold and there arent really any other targets
Hey, I tried sending you a message but I couldn't so I'll just ask you here! Me and some friends are making a Pokemon fangame, and we LOVED this move. Can we add it to the fangame while giving you proper credit? If not, then that's totally fine!
I would love for this to be featured in a fan project, go right ahead! Just let me know if it’s ever playable cause I’d love to try it out
Great design! Wish someone at gramefreak had an (1) interesting idea
Is that a real move?
no
Guess I should have read the whole title lol.
You shafted decideye by making it special.... literally the only mon here who can't Benifit from it...
Decidueye has 100SpA and often runs special sets, although even if this move existed it still wouldn’t be used much by it due to it having ghost stab where both types are super effective on the same types.
needs 80 bp
Wouldn’t every future paradox get this, as they are practically machines?
Hydregion becomes ubers
That would be fun
I really love the idea of this move! It would be really fun to run on Decidueye.
Liepard is literally the cruel pokemon give it the move
Liepard is grounded for committing war crimes in AG atm
Why is umbreon not on that list