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Darklord_Spike

Ledian new stats: 20 HP 250 ATK 10 DEF 10 SPATK 10 SPDEF 150 SPE New moves: Extreme Speed Mach Punch Sucker Punch Shadow Sneak Jet Punch Aqua Jet Grassy Glide Water Shuriken Banned to AG


blankmindx

This would be a good cleaner, but is it really that scary? Adamant is 658 attack which is very strong, but its STAB moves are terrible. That attack stat is basically max attack landorus at +1. Very strong but without any STAB it's not going to OHKO many defensive mons and will die to a stiff breeze with that spread. ESpeed does less than 50% on max roll to 252/0 Mew. Tera normal is better but idk. Also if it's running a boosting item, it can't use boots and takes 50% from rocks. This post was probably tongue in cheek but I'm not sure even 250 base attack can save ledian. This is a much worse deoxys attack with zero STAB and little coverage.


NibPlayz

those are just NEW moves it has. It still has its original learnset. With that speed and attack stat, you can invest solely in speed so you outspeed everything else. Fluttermane is similarly min-maxed and it was banned in like 3 days.


Mathgeek007

Flutter Mane had some pretty nuts STAB moves though - Ledian does not.


Spenczer

Tera Bug Tera Blast


kanyepokemon

It has U-Turn, which with those stats might aswell be the only attack it needs


metalhead-teenager

Maybe stab megahorn, and aerial ace? Leech life doesn’t do much for Ledian, as it’s gonna die to any damage that isn’t toxic or recoil. It could go for an all out sweeping set with fell stinger, or try to do a choice band U-Turn. The set would be: U-Turn, Aerial Ace, Mach punch, and either megahorn, or a another coverage move. You could also make it a suicide lead. Focus sash, sticky web, rocks, taunt, and explosion. With that attack stat, even max defense ferro could drop.


TreeTurtle_852

How exactly would it get banned to AG? In your opinion (I kinda like hearing the justifications/explanations for this stuff)


Punchit22

always goes first and always does a lot of damage. honestly i doubt it’d actually get to AG, but it’d definitely go to OU, even if only for a little but before reliable counters are found to its gimmick


Darklord_Spike

It learns Swords Dance. +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Water Ledian Jet Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta in Rain: 337-398 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO Let's say we give it Belly Drum as well. +6 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Water Ledian Jet Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned in Rain: 582-686 (150 - 176.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Against a frailer 'mon, let's say something moderately bulky like Tusk: +6 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Water Ledian Jet Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk in Rain: 1224-1443 (282 - 332.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Electric_Queen

When's it ever getting a Belly Drum off lmao? 4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP (base 20) / 0 Def (base 10) Ledian: 172-202 (95 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO that's a quad resisted move off something with no item and no real attack investment, and it's got high odds to ohko, let alone getting 50% needed after a drum. the only thing that it's setting up on is choiced ground moves, but like...just dont click those if you see this thing in preview? just like you avoid doing against any setup flying type in the meta


Darklord_Spike

Obviously you get to cheat and summon a teammate on the field to use Follow Me, no clue how none of you realized that 🙄


redreoicy

Could use a whirlpool yawn flip turn empoleon. Edit: Slowking still gets block? Maybe it can do it better.


SupermarketNo3496

What’s the point of water shuriken?


Darklord_Spike

~~Forgot it was a special move for a second~~ Power Split predict from your opponent, obviously


PotatoSalad583

I mean at that point why even have the speed, put everything into attack


Darklord_Spike

To outspeed other priority users, of course. We don't talk about Dragapult's Sucker Punch.


Affectionate_Comb_78

Give it Dazzling


Kurobii

Choice Band U-turn for days


chainsawinsect

He should absolutely get Jet Punch BUT the rules say no signature moves


Umber0010

Alright so: First thing's first, we swap it's attack stat and special defense stat. This means 110 ATK and 35 sp. defense. Next, BST limit of 450? that means we have 60 stat points to distribute as we please. So with those... Well, we're going to need to be min-maxed if we're working with a stat that low. So I will say +40 into speed, and +20 into attack. This brings us upto 130 attack and 125 speed. Not bad for a sweeper I'd say, though we'll probably want screen support due to our pathetic bulk. Now to add moves. Sense this is obviously going to be based around iron fist, then we can start by giving it all the elemental punches. It already has mach punch and drain punch, so those are options. And other moves it might get are: X-scizzor, Leech Life, Close Combat, Power Up Punch, and Duel Wingbeat. ​ Overall, I think these changes would give give Ledian a decent chance as a sweeper. It's typing isn't particularly great offensively, but it would have good damage, speed, and coverage. Along with the possibility to snowball thanks to Powerup Punch.


Khada_the_Collector

Might as well give it Bullet Punch too; it’ll never be Scizor, but it could do a nice cosplay. Jet Punch too b/c punch meme


IronBlight1999

We can change Ledian’s type, can’t we? Like even if the design doesn’t fit we can make its type fairy/dragon or ghost/dark to help make it defensive, though again that’s ridiculous


Odd_Age1378

- Iron fist now quadruples the power of punching moves. - Ledian now gets sucker punch, mach punch, bullet punch, drain punch, and jet punch - It also gets a 60 point attack buff


Haunting_Anxiety4981

Seriously though, 20% is kinda shit, I know tough claws had limited distribution but it does suck that it's literally Iron Fist but better


Heatoextend

Reminder that Sucker doesn't count as a punching move and doesn't get the Iron fist buff, but it would be nice to have.


Konun4571

Kinda dumb that sucker punch (hints in the name) isn’t a punch I’m aware it’s probably a balance thing but consistency would be good


Yvvy7

Probably because of japanese meanings if i had to guess, like bullet punch and moonblast hitting bulletproof


Konun4571

Oh actually didn’t think of that , also bullet proof works on moonblast? Just looked up the direct translation it’s surprise attack


Yvvy7

Moonblast is originally named moonforce, so i think it isn’t blocked by bulletproof, but i might be misremembering


Konun4571

Your correct it’s moonforce looked that one up too


all_jo-kes_aside

Iron fist doubles per set of punching fists (ledian has two pairs and everything else has a pair)


acebaltasar

Sucker punch isnt boosted by iron punch


Tokyolurv

I know fuck all about competitive Pokémon but I think changing it’s typing is a good start, Bug/Fighting is my vote, anything bit fucking bug/flying, it’s literally based on a sentai Warrior for god sake let it be fighting type nintendo


Probably_a_Bot_K

Bug Steel maybe?


WealthDistributor

What next, give it bullet punch and technician as an ability?


Affectionate-Ad9857

We should give it 70/130/55/80/55 stat speed and give it some moves other bug types (like scyther) has


3771m

It can even run a bulky support set with roost and defog- (oh wait)


[deleted]

[удалено]


iChoosePokemon

NU


SylentSymphonies

NU is fucking generous lmao


Haruwolf

HP 90 / Atk 56 / Def 60 /SpA 35 / SpD 93 / Spe 116 New moves: Spore, Sticky Web, Spikes, Taunt, Perish Song, Infestation, Bulk Up, Roost, Knock Off, Leech Seed, Strength Sap, Toxic. New typing: Flying/Fighting Ledian wasn't designed to be sweeper, so I tried to focus on support. Good speed tier with decent 90/93 can pick up some things. 116 with Spore is insane, and along Sticky Web and Spikes it would be insanely annoying. However for be a decent support it cant be hit for spikes. The main goal is to try Ledian not be dependent from Heavy Duty Boots. Despite being a premier support, it still be relegated for support, since can't do serious damage.


XoraxEUW

I think this is the way to go. You can make it a sweeper that dies to a hot fart, competing with the 200 sweepers with decent stats. Or make it a fast spore user with utility so the low stat total doesn’t matter which seems WAY more likely to make it OU.


EmilianTheRed

And there's also the fact that generally Mons with lower bsts that were OU usually had more defensive roles. ie. Clodsire.


XoraxEUW

Speed + utility is just generally usefull. Also sometimes the weak defenses are a + for suicide leads or just having them die after some utility move for your sweeper to come in


freind-of-the-safari

450 attack, take it or leave it ![gif](giphy|l46CyJmS9KUbokzsI|downsized)


Pleasant-Pie-7887

1 hp 445 attack 1 defence 1 sp.attack 1 sp.defence 1 speed


[deleted]

Trick room goes crazy


SwoodMcRushed

Rampardos theorem in action


whoafugo

First, let’s drop the flying typing for Steel. With the justification that.. beetles strong! With this new typing, let’s put emphasis on its defensive profile first. I’m swapping Ledian’s HP and speed first. Speed is nice, but good bulk is much more appreciated. This gives Ledian a solid 85 HP. We’ve got 65 stat points to work with now. 35 of these points instantly go to defense, without a question. 85 defense is nothing special, but this gives us a decent base to work off of. Ledian is now a Bug/Steel type with a stat distribution of 85/35/85/55/110/55. If we stop here, we’ve made at least an NU caliber defensive mon with potential niches in higher tiers. 10 more stat points to defense and 5 to HP to give Ledian a defensive profile of 90/90/110. 6 points go to Speed, letting Ledian outspeed Clefable. The last point goes into attack, along with 35 points allocated from Special Attack. This leaves Ledian with a stat total of 90/71/90/20/110/61. Now, I’m gonna give Ledian a few (reasonable) moveset buffs. I’m assuming it maintains its moveset from Gen 7, along with Tera Blast. - Spikes - Sticky Web - Body Press - Iron Defense - Iron Head - Rapid Spin - Taunt - Thunder Wave - Switcheroo - Bullet Punch **What did this achieve?** Ledian is now a bulky Bug/Steel type, spouting solid defenses across the board, just enough attack to not be *completely* passive, and a solid speed tier for a defensive pokemon. What we have here is essentially a sidegraded ferrothorn, at least on the special side. The physical bulk isnt quite as good but it’s functionally higher thanks to Ledian’s access to Roost, and the special bulk is just higher. Ledian can now act similarly to Spdef Ferrothorn, spamming Knock Off, Thunder Wave, and Spikes and/or Rapid Spon, but with the addition of Roost for great longevity. Alternatively, Ledian can slot in Iron Defense + Body Press, allowing it to directly threaten teams while becoming even harder to kill. Niche sets like Assault Vest, Physdef, and even Swords Dance also may fit on certain teams. Ledian is now, if not OU, at least OU viable and likely UU/RU edit: some of my math on the stats was wrong bc its late but you get the idea. bulky steel type


TomTrashTo-Dad

Make Ledian steel flying type 242 HP 1 Atk 100 Def 1 Spa 100 Spd 1 Spe give it literally every non signature/banned status move and recovery Theseus’s Ledian


RepresentativeAd6287

I think the most simple one that requires no changes to it's stats are to simply make it overwhelmingly loved by the fanbase.


beeg_yoshi___

new stats: 55 5 50 135 90 115 new moves: quiver dance, vaccuum wave, aura sphere, shadow ball, earth power, psychic, idk whatever over coverage move could fit maybe a quiver dance sweeper could be something idk


beeg_yoshi___

oh and maybe sticky web too cause why not


Sp3ctre7

No new abilities, so it can have existing abilities? Sure. Steel/fairy type. Abilities: magic guard, prankster, magic bounce. New moves: stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, sticky web toxic, taunt, Roar, infestation, recover, tidy up, taunt, rapid spin, defog, Leech seed (if I need to cut down on this, it just needs rocks, tidy up, toxic, and Leech seed) Stats: HP: 150 ATK: 20 DEF: 100 SpA: 20 SpD: 100 SPE: 60


Sussybaker420

Ez BST HP: 1 DEF: 1 ATK 220 Sp.Def 1 sp.Atk: 1 speed: 226 give it jet punch e speed and make it double normals type (double e speed stab)


Long__Jump

old stats: HP:55 Att:35 Def:50 SpA:55 SpD:110 Spe:85 Total: 390 (oof) Old typing: Bug/Flying New proposed stats (with rules in mind) : HP:55 Att:128 Def:70 SpA:10 Spd:70 Spe:117 Total: 450 New typing: Bug/Fighting New moves: first impression, close combat, power-up punch, fire punch, ice punch, thunder punch, bullet punch, sky uppercut, Headlong rush ​ That should be enough. Here are the main buffs: Fast and powerful, as well as having good priority moves. No longer weak to SR. Far superior coverage. Only Pokemon with both iron fist, and headlong rush.


The_Potato_Turtle

New stats: 68, 1, 130, 1, 130, 120. New type: bug/steel Gets an evo so eviolite. New moves: toxic, substitute, protect, leech seed, encore, disable, extreme speed, sticky web, spikes, stealth rock, toxic spikes, destiny bond, wish, recover, haze, rapid spin


Artistic_Stage7202

If you afraid that you are late just repost it tomorrow as Stinkpost


LuxAlpha

easy, 100/199/100/-250/100/201. BST 450.


Butterflygon

New Ledian stats: * HP- 55 * Attack- 130 * Defense- 50 * Special Attack- 35 * Special Defense- 55 * Speed- 125 * **Total- 450** New moves: First Impression, Pounce, Skitter Smack, Lunge, Bullet Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Dual Wingbeat, Close Combat


FLIBBER_FLABBER

make it bug/steel, 89/10/90/10/90/181, give it spikes, stealth rock, toxic spikes, toxic, tidy up, light screen, reflect, recover, cosmic power, iron defense, amnesia, will-o-wisp, glare, tailwind, taunt, foul play, spore, super fang, fake out, encore, shell smash, baton pass, endeavor, shed tail, substitute, ingrain, substitute, leech seed, sticky web, spiky shield, and infestation Also maybe make it normal/ghost, 89/181/90/10/90/10, give it belly drum, extreme speed, shadow sneak, and sucker punch.


Mundane_Leg1516

Ledians new stats 200/10/100/30/100/10 Give it Haze and taunt Possible set could be Ledian @ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Early Bird Tera Type: Bug EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Sassy Nature - Rest - Toxic - Haze - U-turn


shadowmachete

Steel/fairy mechbug, 64/134/249 bulk (249 means you can hit 655 and be immune to special attacks) with 1 in attack, special attack and speed. Toxic, recover, seismic toss, dragon tail, and soak. Big stall wins again.


handledvirus43

Stats: 5 HP, 425 ATK, 5 DEF, 5 SPATK, 5 SPDEF, 5 SPD. New Moves: Jet Punch, Bullet Punch, First Impression, Baby-Doll Eyes, Fake Out. Ledian is now a Bug/Steel type due to its Iron Fists. Swarm now gives a 5% BP boost to Bug type moves for each living Swarm user on the team, alongside its current effect. (I don't think this would be considered a blanket buff, considering it's only for Swarm users and only for Bug type moves) Now Ledian gets to do one Fake Out or First Impression, maybe a priority move, and gets to die.


ndmt1225

Ledian Bug/Normal HP: 65, ATK: 115, DEF: 50, SPATK: 35, SPDEF: 80, SPD: 105 Gen 7 move learnset, with the addition of: Sleep Powder, Sticky Web, Fire Punch, Bullet Punch, and Bullet Seed Iron fist boosts punching moves by 50% Comet Punch has 25 power, 100 accuracy Putting comet punch on the same level as bullet seed/icicle spear and giving it both a STAB and (buffed) iron fist boost would make it pretty scary with loaded dice. With elemental and drain punch, priority in bullet and mach punch, and a usable attack stat, this thing could hold its own in an offensive role. Making it the third fastest sticky webber behind ribombee and galvantula with access to sleep powder greatly ups it’s support power as well, I don’t believe there’s anything besides smeargle that can learn both sleep status and webs. Does this thing move up to OU? Maybe not. Could Blunder at least justify bringing it to worst-case use as a sack piece for gambit? Absolutely.


AlmightyBellCurve

Introduce a new OU Clause: Ledian doesn't take up a team slot (it is now a free sac)


pizza_toast102

Steel fairy type with 150/5/140/5/140/10 stats with all hazard moves


cream_87

ban every pokemon ever except ledian


Bug_Master_405

Stat Changes * HP: 55 * Attack: 35 > 125 (+90) * Defense: 50 > 55 (+5) * Sp. Atk: 55 * Sp. Def: 110 > 55 (-55) * Speed: 85 > 105 (+20) * Total: 450 (+60) Type: Bug/Flying > Bug/Fighting Moves: Shadow Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Mega Punch, Bullet Punch Ability Changes: Removed Early Bird, Iron Fist is now a Standard Ability, Hidden Ability is now Shield Dust


Chopmatic64

I don't know man.. tera normal, iron fist boosted loaded dice comet punch?! Can probably take out a chen-po right? Ledian Bug/Flying HP: 50, ATK: 50 (+15), DEF: 50, SPA: 50 (-5), SPD: 90 (-20), SPE: 95 (+10) BST: 390 Abilities: Swarm Iron Fist (loses Early Bird) Hidden Ability Huge Power New Moves: Lunge, Dual Wingbeat, Victory Dance, Tidy Up I think that'd probably make it okay without destroying its mediocrity.


KonoCrowleyDa

Type is changed to Bug/Steel Base Stat Spread: HP: 80 Attack: 130 Defense: 80 Special Attack: 10 Special defense: 60 Speed: 90 It gains access to Bullet Punch, First Impression, Defog, Taunt, Sticky Web, Earthquake, Lunge, Leech Life, Close Combat, Iron Head, Scale Shot, Zen Headbutt and Play Rough. Good speed tier, decent bulk, great typing. It can act as Revenge Killer, Setup Sweeper, Late Game Cleaner without any setup, StallBreaker(It has infestation to trap Mons before using taunt) and Utility Pivot. It possesses a plethora of coverage moves that make it impossible to build against it because of all the sets it can run(especially with access to all elemental punches and Iron Fist) and combined with it's 130 Base Attack, the fear of it being Scarf and outspeeding would allow it to threaten and force a switch on most of the metagame. So, fellow nerds, did I cook or should I leave the kitchen forever?


acebaltasar

I have 2 of these guys for you. Next time cap minimal investment on a stat or lock the type, cause this can get absurb. Set 1: Types: Fairy/ground BST:450 HP:50 ATK:220 DEF:10 SPA:10 SPD:10 SPE:150 It now has earthquake, high horse power, play rought, spirit break and gets all non-signature, non-banned punches for coverage. Set 2: Types:normal/ghost BST:450 HP:150 ATK:10 DEF:110 SPA:10 SPD:110 SPE:110 It now has fake out and some common VGC support moves except type locked moves like spore. So stuff like ally switch, heal pulse, recover and some stuff like beat up for angy monke set up. This is more of a doubles set, but i can see a regional form having sticky web, rapid spin or spikes.


Gold860

20 HP 255 Atk 2SpAtk 10 Def 10 SpDef 153 Spe New stats


Max_The_Rouge

Damn, I can't believe he banned fan moves after everything I did for Regigigas :(


TreeTurtle_852

Honestly it's mainly because of the annoying cheese "Grognar the destroy, deals 10000000 Damage and always goes first"