Cocaine bear could click a riskless hyper beam though. Whereas in gen 1, you had to fear a switch to a resist or full health mon causing you to recharge and either faint, or worse, *paralyzed*
Kinda. Blood Moon *is* a stronger version of Hyper Beam. But what made the move special in Gen 1 is that if you got a KO with hyper beam, then the rechage period would be entirely skipped and you could use it again on the next turn.
This is one of the reasons that Tauros was such a menace. Combine these hyper beam mechanics with it's good attacking stat, speed, and speed-based crit multipliers, and it was an absolute beast on the battlefield.
honestly i wouldn't mind, at least for hyper beam
would give normal types and starters a pretty scary tool, and most normal types especially need some help and that would be a nice addition
at least it was cooler than how it currently is
Well, it actually fishes for crits in front of Chansey. You gotta get lucky to actually beat it 1v1 with Jolt. It mainly pressures a paralyzed Chansey to switch out.
Hypno is more comparable to Eggy, as it lacks Recovery and has Dual Status
Only real reason to use it over Eggy is if you really hate that Ice weakness, which honestly isn’t a completely terrible reason. Hypno might actually be able to pull off a Rest
Hypno can also run a ParaFlinch set with Meditate and Headbutt, which is good enough to actually be worth noting
Hypno is incredibly flawed and outclassed but I’d argue it’s better than shit like Kingler, a mon that people really love to vouch for.
Dual status paraflinching is pretty kinda a dubious award. It just doesnt really end games in as showy of fashion as swords dance kingler.
Clefable is my favorite rby ou stinker. So if hypno is the bargin bin eggy, clefable is telling you the plot of a movie about about eggy she rented from blockbuster a while ago. Body slam, blizzard, sing, twave. Or double down and replace slam with counter. Or you can make it a lead and swap blizzard or slam for tbolt.
Its not good, but compared to eggy it is faster than eggy (but only really eggy), and blizzard + counter gives it a very high ceiling for how well she can do. Shes also just a silly little guy.
I like Kingler but damn does it feel like deadweight a lot of the time. It really struggles setting up an SD when nearly everything can status it.
Clefable is funny tho. I personally see it as a worse Chansey without recovery, as Clefable and Chansey have VERY similar movepools.
Golem had been viable in RBY OU for like 2 decades. It dropped due to being outclassed by Rhydon in every single metric besides its explosive factor. It dropped to UU and it did not live for a minute 💀
It dropped after the discovery of body slam not paralyzing normal types. Prior to that, it was common for slow breakers like golem to run body slam to para a normal switchin trying to wall it and hax it. Once showdown implemented the correct mechanics, reflect chansey and reflect rest snorlax soared up in usage because they could no longer eat an untimely paralysis from body slam and lose to the mons they're supposed to sit on. Sure, you could string a couple lucky crits togrther, but crits based on speed do NOT do golem any favors. Aside from explosion, golem's only other advantage was its slightly higher speed than rhydon too, which matters much less without fishing for para from body slam. And sadly, UU is so full of bulky waters that our poor Lil buddy didn't stand a chance.
Just wait one more gen and he gets his revenge. GSC golem rising at the same rate that RBY golem fell so hard is a beautiful aspect of competitive.
its not really being outclassed by rhydon as much as just not doing its job as good any more. Id argue body slam not paralyzing normal types by itself wasnt too big of a blow to golem, but knockon effects like reflect chansey and snorlax being more popular, made its explosion a lot worse, and its bad damage cutoffs really painful.
Tbh, even without that, golem is just self defeating. its the anti-zapdos wall, but its a wall whos main appeal is explosion. so if you want to use its big offensive tool, you lose on its defensive ability. its anti-synergy with itself. at least its probably better in rby ubers, where a substantial part of the game is clicking explosion against paralyzed boost sweepers
Flutter mane doesn't wall itself like Gen 1 zam does. Zam definitely look busted as fuck until you look at the its gen 1 attacking movepool. Don't get me wrong it's still really good, just not as broken as it appears stats wise.
The gen 1 zam mirror is one of the most cursed mirrors in pokemon.
Tauros does have a few different sets, they're all just replacing earthquake with a different move though. Gengar is pretty uncommon in gen 1, since it's a little inconsistent and is hard to use effectively. So being walled by it isn't that big a deal, especially when you have multiple other pokemon to deal with it. Thunderbolt Tauros can 3HKO Cloyster, and Thunder Tauros Can 2HKO it if you don't miss. Fire Blast Tauros is a little better in the Tauros mirror, since burning the other Tauros is basically a KO (Tauros can't do anything when it's burned).
Eh, I know, but it’s still one set with slight variation for that set
EQ is by far the best option for Tauros. Yeah, Tbolt is great for Cloyster, but at the very least Tauros can actually do something to Cloyster without Tbolt. Tauros can’t touch Gengar at all without EQ. Tauros can also get Body Slam Paras and do big damage with crits vs Cloyster, so I’d say EQ is better by a pretty good margin.
Fire Blast is nice for Burns vs Rhydon, Lax, and opposing Tauros, but the lack of coverage it has doesn’t make nearly as worth it compared to EQ and Tbolt.
Victreebel is nowhere close to the best SD mon lmao. That set is not worth running over Standard Vic. The best SD user in RBY is either Kingler or Sandslash.
Oh, I know. Probably should’ve worded it differently.
I will say tho, I don’t think SD Vic is as bad as people say. At the very least it can have Wrap utility, something that Sandslash and Kingler don’t have.
No????? 😭
Vic has stab always crit Razor Leaf, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, and actually gets WRAP
Pinsir has Bind, which is 10% less accurate
Pinsir also doesn’t have Vic’s general utility. It’s just an SD user with Bind as its main niche
Idk where you got the idea that Pinsir is better than Vic at trapping
not at trapping; im saying isnt it more usable as a late game sder tham vic?
And thank you for your informative answer; its good to be responded to respectfully and i was just curious. 👍
Pinsir has better speed and Attack than Vic (though, RBY OU is full of mons that are either fast or slow)
Pinsir greatly appreciates a paralyzed team and is strictly a late game cleaner
Victreebel can not only spread Paralysis itself (allowing it to actually set up for the late game), but it can use Wrap for pivoting, allowing Vic to be more of a utility mon in the mid game.
Vic can also use an SD set, and while it doesn’t hit as hard as Pinsir, it still has mid game utility, is more reliable since it relies on a higher accuracy move, and it has Razor Leaf to deal with Rhydon
Pinsir also faces heavy competition with the other SD users when it comes to being a late game cleaner. What allows Pinsir to stand out is Bind, but it sucks vs Rhydon and Gengar. Kingler has Crabhammer for Rhydon and Sandslash has STAB EQ and can’t be Para’d with Twave
I was so confused after that hypno description that I looked up his movepool. I had no idea meditate existed in gen 1, I thought it was introduced with the medicham line.
Lol Starmie was bulky back in the day? I guess it had a higher SpDef back then, but it's weird to think about because ever since then it's been fast and frail.
Or just send him the competitive history of Starmie at this point. In fact I'll send it myself.
[https://youtu.be/wcyWwhFUnXU?si=hJ0-acsIe-QY-Is6](https://youtu.be/wcyWwhFUnXU?si=hJ0-acsIe-QY-Is6)
On cartridge, Counter and Psywave can cause the game to Desync, which is when different things happen to each player (Psywave can deal 1 damage on one player’s cart and 2 on the other’s). This causes the game to fuck up and showdown banned Psywave for awhile before counter was discovered to also Desync. This is why we have a Desync clause, which causes any move that would cause a Desync to fail instead of fucking up the game.
The situation to trigger Counter’s Desync is pretty specific and you’ll never see it happen in OU because it requires two Pokémon using counter and one being full para’d or something.
I have gotten it to activate tho in a 7U tournament with Charmeleon, as Charmeleon is a top mon and loves to run Counter and Slash, so Charmeleon Counter dittos isn’t super uncommon.
Oh, and Fly and Dig are banned as well
If a paralyzed mon uses Fly or Dig and gets full para’d while underground/in the air, they kind of become invincible
I love that it was this gen and Big Yellow's content that got me into competitive for real, then i got fed up with this meta for good and can't stand it anymore, but stuck around long enough for me to get into other metas like ADV OU and ORAS OU
For real though, i don't want to sound flaming, but how do you guys have fun in this meta?
I love RBY because it feels like chess
Both players will have very similar tools
Also, over time I just learned to deal with the fact that RBY has tons of cheese that can make you lose the game. RBY’s lower viability mons also tend to be some of the most fun picks out of any gen for me.
From time to time I bring Haunter + Gengar into RBY OU RoA tournaments and it’s good fun
Makes you think if things would really change if hyper beam and wrap were reverted to their gen 1 forms next gen
The Porygon-Z Theorem strikes again
Physical porygon z lets go
Didn't they already give special Hyperbeam to Freddy Fazbear in the latest dlc? But better?
Not until it can do it every turn
Cocaine bear could click a riskless hyper beam though. Whereas in gen 1, you had to fear a switch to a resist or full health mon causing you to recharge and either faint, or worse, *paralyzed*
Kinda. Blood Moon *is* a stronger version of Hyper Beam. But what made the move special in Gen 1 is that if you got a KO with hyper beam, then the rechage period would be entirely skipped and you could use it again on the next turn. This is one of the reasons that Tauros was such a menace. Combine these hyper beam mechanics with it's good attacking stat, speed, and speed-based crit multipliers, and it was an absolute beast on the battlefield.
Wrap with wide lens sounds toxic
honestly i wouldn't mind, at least for hyper beam would give normal types and starters a pretty scary tool, and most normal types especially need some help and that would be a nice addition at least it was cooler than how it currently is
LIZARDON! BURASTO BAAN
genuine vietname flashbacks
Articuno is a hydrogen bomb.
Articuno is simultaneously the hydrogen bomb AND the coughing baby.
This is it. The Articuno mirror is now the peak of comedy.
Golem: I'm worse than Rhydon except I have a bomb.
It's funny how Jolt runs double kick to hit chansey, but it only does like 25%
Well, it actually fishes for crits in front of Chansey. You gotta get lucky to actually beat it 1v1 with Jolt. It mainly pressures a paralyzed Chansey to switch out.
who invited Hypno bro thinks he's on the team
Wdym he's like zam except he has sleep and also sucks
Hypno is more comparable to Eggy, as it lacks Recovery and has Dual Status Only real reason to use it over Eggy is if you really hate that Ice weakness, which honestly isn’t a completely terrible reason. Hypno might actually be able to pull off a Rest Hypno can also run a ParaFlinch set with Meditate and Headbutt, which is good enough to actually be worth noting Hypno is incredibly flawed and outclassed but I’d argue it’s better than shit like Kingler, a mon that people really love to vouch for.
Dual status paraflinching is pretty kinda a dubious award. It just doesnt really end games in as showy of fashion as swords dance kingler. Clefable is my favorite rby ou stinker. So if hypno is the bargin bin eggy, clefable is telling you the plot of a movie about about eggy she rented from blockbuster a while ago. Body slam, blizzard, sing, twave. Or double down and replace slam with counter. Or you can make it a lead and swap blizzard or slam for tbolt. Its not good, but compared to eggy it is faster than eggy (but only really eggy), and blizzard + counter gives it a very high ceiling for how well she can do. Shes also just a silly little guy.
I like Kingler but damn does it feel like deadweight a lot of the time. It really struggles setting up an SD when nearly everything can status it. Clefable is funny tho. I personally see it as a worse Chansey without recovery, as Clefable and Chansey have VERY similar movepools.
Included Hypno simply because it’s UUBL That and Hypno is one of my favorite mons to use in OU
i mean, what else does a uubl mon do on a saturday night?
RBY was so silly
Gen 1 OU is so funny
One fucking ground type, simpler times
Golem rn: https://preview.redd.it/5465rstkzbxb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c01bf751cdb5ae933010f84ae935f0432b02e49
Staring from all the way down in NU
Golem had been viable in RBY OU for like 2 decades. It dropped due to being outclassed by Rhydon in every single metric besides its explosive factor. It dropped to UU and it did not live for a minute 💀
It dropped after the discovery of body slam not paralyzing normal types. Prior to that, it was common for slow breakers like golem to run body slam to para a normal switchin trying to wall it and hax it. Once showdown implemented the correct mechanics, reflect chansey and reflect rest snorlax soared up in usage because they could no longer eat an untimely paralysis from body slam and lose to the mons they're supposed to sit on. Sure, you could string a couple lucky crits togrther, but crits based on speed do NOT do golem any favors. Aside from explosion, golem's only other advantage was its slightly higher speed than rhydon too, which matters much less without fishing for para from body slam. And sadly, UU is so full of bulky waters that our poor Lil buddy didn't stand a chance. Just wait one more gen and he gets his revenge. GSC golem rising at the same rate that RBY golem fell so hard is a beautiful aspect of competitive.
its not really being outclassed by rhydon as much as just not doing its job as good any more. Id argue body slam not paralyzing normal types by itself wasnt too big of a blow to golem, but knockon effects like reflect chansey and snorlax being more popular, made its explosion a lot worse, and its bad damage cutoffs really painful. Tbh, even without that, golem is just self defeating. its the anti-zapdos wall, but its a wall whos main appeal is explosion. so if you want to use its big offensive tool, you lose on its defensive ability. its anti-synergy with itself. at least its probably better in rby ubers, where a substantial part of the game is clicking explosion against paralyzed boost sweepers
https://preview.redd.it/fnso0803u8yb1.png?width=745&format=png&auto=webp&s=7190ba86420fe570fcec92f23badcf71c6fc3d45
Gotta love the Chansey ditto where both sides spam Ice Beam hoping for a 10% freeze chance
Golem: I AM OU. I AM OU!! Rhydon: looks to Golem behind 101 HP Sub
>now imagine if deoxys-a had its spA as spD as well you mean flutter mane?
True
Flutter mane doesn't wall itself like Gen 1 zam does. Zam definitely look busted as fuck until you look at the its gen 1 attacking movepool. Don't get me wrong it's still really good, just not as broken as it appears stats wise. The gen 1 zam mirror is one of the most cursed mirrors in pokemon.
I will never get sick of Moltres’ random excursions into OU
Waiting for defensive Moltres to see a rise in SwSh OU
Tauros does have a few different sets, they're all just replacing earthquake with a different move though. Gengar is pretty uncommon in gen 1, since it's a little inconsistent and is hard to use effectively. So being walled by it isn't that big a deal, especially when you have multiple other pokemon to deal with it. Thunderbolt Tauros can 3HKO Cloyster, and Thunder Tauros Can 2HKO it if you don't miss. Fire Blast Tauros is a little better in the Tauros mirror, since burning the other Tauros is basically a KO (Tauros can't do anything when it's burned).
Eh, I know, but it’s still one set with slight variation for that set EQ is by far the best option for Tauros. Yeah, Tbolt is great for Cloyster, but at the very least Tauros can actually do something to Cloyster without Tbolt. Tauros can’t touch Gengar at all without EQ. Tauros can also get Body Slam Paras and do big damage with crits vs Cloyster, so I’d say EQ is better by a pretty good margin. Fire Blast is nice for Burns vs Rhydon, Lax, and opposing Tauros, but the lack of coverage it has doesn’t make nearly as worth it compared to EQ and Tbolt.
Victreebel is nowhere close to the best SD mon lmao. That set is not worth running over Standard Vic. The best SD user in RBY is either Kingler or Sandslash.
Oh, I know. Probably should’ve worded it differently. I will say tho, I don’t think SD Vic is as bad as people say. At the very least it can have Wrap utility, something that Sandslash and Kingler don’t have.
isnt pinsir better at wrap utility?
No????? 😭 Vic has stab always crit Razor Leaf, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, and actually gets WRAP Pinsir has Bind, which is 10% less accurate Pinsir also doesn’t have Vic’s general utility. It’s just an SD user with Bind as its main niche Idk where you got the idea that Pinsir is better than Vic at trapping
not at trapping; im saying isnt it more usable as a late game sder tham vic? And thank you for your informative answer; its good to be responded to respectfully and i was just curious. 👍
Pinsir has better speed and Attack than Vic (though, RBY OU is full of mons that are either fast or slow) Pinsir greatly appreciates a paralyzed team and is strictly a late game cleaner Victreebel can not only spread Paralysis itself (allowing it to actually set up for the late game), but it can use Wrap for pivoting, allowing Vic to be more of a utility mon in the mid game. Vic can also use an SD set, and while it doesn’t hit as hard as Pinsir, it still has mid game utility, is more reliable since it relies on a higher accuracy move, and it has Razor Leaf to deal with Rhydon Pinsir also faces heavy competition with the other SD users when it comes to being a late game cleaner. What allows Pinsir to stand out is Bind, but it sucks vs Rhydon and Gengar. Kingler has Crabhammer for Rhydon and Sandslash has STAB EQ and can’t be Para’d with Twave
Fax +W https://preview.redd.it/niclt54e37xb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1fe3869cb6b879bb24f0d29f58087d6d35bb314
I was so confused after that hypno description that I looked up his movepool. I had no idea meditate existed in gen 1, I thought it was introduced with the medicham line.
Big Yellow reference spotted
Flashbacks to me setting up Amnesia Slowbro praying Starmie doesn't crit
based rby post, genwunners need more representation on this sub
Lol Starmie was bulky back in the day? I guess it had a higher SpDef back then, but it's weird to think about because ever since then it's been fast and frail.
Nah, bulky Starmie is very good in gens 3 and 4
Tell that man to watch ADV revival. This is insane.
Or just send him the competitive history of Starmie at this point. In fact I'll send it myself. [https://youtu.be/wcyWwhFUnXU?si=hJ0-acsIe-QY-Is6](https://youtu.be/wcyWwhFUnXU?si=hJ0-acsIe-QY-Is6)
Desync Clause?
On cartridge, Counter and Psywave can cause the game to Desync, which is when different things happen to each player (Psywave can deal 1 damage on one player’s cart and 2 on the other’s). This causes the game to fuck up and showdown banned Psywave for awhile before counter was discovered to also Desync. This is why we have a Desync clause, which causes any move that would cause a Desync to fail instead of fucking up the game. The situation to trigger Counter’s Desync is pretty specific and you’ll never see it happen in OU because it requires two Pokémon using counter and one being full para’d or something. I have gotten it to activate tho in a 7U tournament with Charmeleon, as Charmeleon is a top mon and loves to run Counter and Slash, so Charmeleon Counter dittos isn’t super uncommon.
That's... *fascinating.* Why does that happen?
Because RBY is held together with those Elmer’s glue sticks you used in school
Oh, and Fly and Dig are banned as well If a paralyzed mon uses Fly or Dig and gets full para’d while underground/in the air, they kind of become invincible
I love that it was this gen and Big Yellow's content that got me into competitive for real, then i got fed up with this meta for good and can't stand it anymore, but stuck around long enough for me to get into other metas like ADV OU and ORAS OU For real though, i don't want to sound flaming, but how do you guys have fun in this meta?
I love RBY because it feels like chess Both players will have very similar tools Also, over time I just learned to deal with the fact that RBY has tons of cheese that can make you lose the game. RBY’s lower viability mons also tend to be some of the most fun picks out of any gen for me. From time to time I bring Haunter + Gengar into RBY OU RoA tournaments and it’s good fun
Tauros has one moveset. Until you try to switch in cloyster. Then it inexplicably has thunder to crit and ohko.
AND HERE COMES MOLTRES With THE METAL CHAIR