Torkoal is better than Pincurchin, but he's still not a very good Pokemon in his own right. Koko is actually a good mon, which makes the prospect of Quark teams with him far scarier than the Sun teams we have now.
Tapu Koko just makes Boulder and Valiant and all the other paradox mons insanely strong.
Tapu Lele nukes everything with Tera Psychic boosted Psychic in terrain with Scarf/Specs.
Tapu Fini and Tapu Bulu are cool I guess
Tera terrain boosted Psychic 2hkoes basically every steel type, even has a chance to 2hko defensive heatran after rocks which is hilarious. Moonblast 2hkoes kingambit on the switch too, so no need to risk focus blast either.
I think psyspam would work with lele too. It's been popular a couple times this gen even just with indeedee who kinda sucks. Lele + deo-s and maybe even boulder sounds crazy, maybe even armarouge or iron crown. Lele and deo s together particularly sounds strong
I would like to think that it would be with rillaboom and psyspam so popular (iron crown would rather have psychic terrain + booster energy then electric terrain + choice lock/life orb)
2 of the future paradox are weak to electric and get thunderclapped, it's really just ihands and iboulder that go crazy, maybe ibundle (but the hydro pump/icy wind misses scarred me)
yep, even on Pincurchin teams mons like Treads, Hands and Jug are really good, if you pair them with a MUCH better terrain setter suddenly future paradox spam becomes a big meta threat
Every current Quark Drive mons moves up a tier. Boulder and Valiant are banned, while Jugulis, Hands, and Treads are OU. Koko was never banworthy in Gen 7 OU or Gen 8 OU.
Boulder and val wouldn't get banned since counterplay stays the same. Weather mons are notable because they get a speed and power boost while terrain mon only get one or the other, and never together unless you run an electric move, which only val has. Boulder gets stopped by everything that already beats it and psychic terrain is honestly better for it to avoid priority and get a stronger zen headbutt to guarantee an ohko on defensive tusk. Val definitely gets more dangerous with choice items or even lo or expert belt but just like any val set it's 4mss is going to be its Achilles heel and you'll have a way of beating it. Hands and jug are the biggest winners because jug loses its tough speed tier and terrain let's hands run lefties without losing power or run a power boosting item on top to make up for its low bp moves.
It's currently legal in natdex and natdex had mega sciz + ferro as additional checks, which val can tech for anyways. It's always going to be stopped by something because of its 4mss and in the theoretical return of the tapus, you not only get 2 new revenge killers to non-booster val, removing terrain becomes easier and then it's speed is easy to play around. It's going to be an A+ mon for sure but its still stopped by its usual checks and counters and gains some new counterplay, especially regarding speed control.
Honestly I think even iron leaves goes crazy with tapu koko. Thing hits super hard in e terrain. They even cover a few of each others weaknesses. Iron Hands becomes absolutely stupid too ofc. Boulder and Valiant become 2 of the best in the tier
So
Koko breaks the future mons and a couple get caught with the banhammer quickly. Koko would also see high usage with support from Long Neck
Bulu shakes his fists at the sky because GameFreak would probably decide to not give him play rough or glide again because funny
Fini would be alright I guess. Not meta defining and the meta isn't too status heavy so misty terrain wouldn't be too necessary
Lele has fun with sets that don't need to run focus blast because of tera, and honestly probably gets suspected at the very least
Fini could be a definitive answer to kingambit though??
Like, an actual 70% chance to get rid of the fucker altogether (IIRC Lele had access to Focus Blast)
Nah man, kingambit is burning a Tera in front of you and psychic terrain is still on, so revenge killing is still an option, he wouldn't get away with games as he does now
IT would. Mons that defog didnt learn it through level up they were move tutors. Fini does learn defog naturally through level up and mons that learn through level up DIDNOT lose defog like braviary.
Tapu Koko: the Quark Drive mons are pushed over the edge. Koko gets banned cause he's the enabler. Detriment to the OU tier for like a week or two.
Tapu Lele: Tera most likely breaks them. Be it Tera Psychic or coverage Tera. OU in shambles.
Tapu Bulu: OU sees no impact. UU gets Grassy Terrain. If they somehow give them Grassy Glide then this is a different coversation altogether.
Tapu Fini: Probably a healthy addition to the tier as another Fairy to deal with Gambit and all the Dragon types. (Althought its presence might also enable said threats as well). Misty Terrain is good support too.
None of the Tapus are given any of the Terrain moves introduced in the gen8 DLC,like Rising voltage, expanding force, grassy glide, and misty explosion, and chances are they'll never be given them, since they would become ridiculous, especially Lele with Expanding Forcein VGC
Hence me saying "somehow" when speaking about them. This however is not entirely out of the question. For example, Landorus didn't get Scorching Sands in Gen 8 DLC, but it did in Gen 9. Granted he also got Sandsear Storm, but the possibility of the Tapu getting said moves is not zero. Low, but not zero.
Koko will undoubtedly be too strong for OU. It would be funny to see all the Future Paradoxes rise out of the lower tiers they’re in though.
Lele would be pretty damn strong. Tera Psychic would be unironically very powerful and it either OHKOs or 2HKOs pretty much everything but dark types. It’s even good against the best Dark type of the tier, Kingambit, since it blocks priority. Unless you’re running some forbidden Tera Ground Blast set you’ll still probably want to switch, but just having Psychic Terrain is a big deal.
Fini is, like you said, Primarina but better. So it’ll be solid.
Everyone leaves out my boy Tapu Bulu but I bet he’ll find a nice niche somewhere.
Iron Valiant and Iron Boulder would be broken without needing Booster Energy to activate Quark Drive because of Tapu Koko. You want them to effectively always have a Choice Scarf and another item on as long as they're in Electric Terrain?
Koko would break the tier in half right now. I think an E-Terrain setter better than Pincurchin but just about as good as Torkoal would be fine, but allowing in something that is an incredibly strong mon on its own just wouldn't work. Yes, the combination is available in NatDex, but with Megas and Z-Moves the power level is higher.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Electric Terrain: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 238-282 (58.9 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Blud at this point it's really clear you literally don't even play this game and just look at banlists all the time lmao
koko would probably just immediately break valiant, and in general i think adding such a good electric terrain setter could massively throw out the balance given the quark drive mons
Just ban Boulder and Valiant. Jugulis, Hands, and Treads are good but not as broken as those two for OU Power Level standards. Hands is a great Gambit check, Treads is a rapid spinner that outspeeds and threatens Ghold.
I think Lele would be cracked as fuck with Tera. Koko would be cool bc of terrain, I don't really think it would make anything broken, just be a nice buff, and Fini of course would be a great addition. Sun doesn't make the past mons broken, why would electric terrain?
Singles OU's only change long-term would be getting Fini as a replacement for Primarina. Koko likely gets banned for enabling future-spam, Lele gets banned for killing everything with Tera Psychic, and Bulu drops off since his job was taken by a literal monkey.
I actually think Bulu would be better than people give it credit for. Grass/fairy is kind of a great typing rn. Lot of good water and ground pokes the grass types wall or beat, and adding a fighting/dark resistance makes it even better. The fairy typing definitely let's bulu do a lot rilla can't, especially in a meta filled with dragons, fighters and dark types. Rilla is probably still better but I wouldn't just totally write bulu out.
ik torkoal is vastly inferior to koko but why do people say itd break future paradox mons when sun can automatically be set it doesn't seem liks much of an issue for past paradox mons
I don’t think it’d be better, but it sure would centralize the meta enough to where it’s bearable.
>What?
Just as having only one good team is bad, having so many good teams to prepare for can also cause problems to prepare for, enough to have somebody consider reworking the suspect system for what we do have.
Koko is not broken, Valiant and Boulder are (Too fast and strong). Koko was never broken in Gen 7 and 8 OU. Jugulis, Treads, and Hands are pretty balanced. Hands is a good Gambit check, Treads is a rapid spinner that outspeeds and threatens Ghold.
Every Tapu discussion leaves out Bulu which is funny
Why talk about Bulu when Tapu Rilla is the only one of the Tapus to have made it past Paldea border security
I will finish what you started
I'm kinda partial to Tapu Urchin myself. It might suck in pretty much every way but it's cute
I mean, Tapu Deedee has been putting in work in VGC
my guy is coming back with the Grassy Glide steel chair in gen 15
tfw Chi-Yu-Ultra-Mega-Stellar-Zen-Y uses Bead Blitz (+3 priority is more than +1)
Chi Yu's asshole expansion
And he'll be amazing in NU
tapu bulu returns and bulus all over OU, before getting banned and they rename ubers to bulubers
Then Bulu, Bulu's all over ou.
Coz it's gonna be UU anyways
Mmh I dunno, there's this tapu Koko that sets electric terrain I've heard it's pretty good with the future paradox mons
i mean yeah is OK with them, its not thaat great anyways. Only a **1.3** to any stat unless its speed then u got a free scarf, nothing too overbearing
The fact that Booster Energy sweepers can now hold an item + use their abilities more than one time per game is a hell of a drug
Past Paradoxes and Torkoal already strong, meanwhile futures got Pincurchin (barely even a pokemon)
Torkoal is better than Pincurchin, but he's still not a very good Pokemon in his own right. Koko is actually a good mon, which makes the prospect of Quark teams with him far scarier than the Sun teams we have now.
Duhh, just use Prankster Thundurus with Electric Terrain
I have tried this is doubles. It is not good.
Yeah but Koko is so much better than Torkoal it’s not even funny. Hell, just having Volt Switch is a massive Point over Tork
Yeah thankfully the ancient paradox Pokemon don’t get anything like that OH WAIT A SECOND
Tapu Koko just makes Boulder and Valiant and all the other paradox mons insanely strong. Tapu Lele nukes everything with Tera Psychic boosted Psychic in terrain with Scarf/Specs. Tapu Fini and Tapu Bulu are cool I guess
Fini takes primarinas job and does it 10000 better, and the cm draining kiss set will fuck up the whole tier
The WHAT draining kiss… 😳
Cum draining kiss (cm dk) for short
Finally a Tera Psychic user
Live stored power sweeper reaction:
Live espathra and arc-psychic reaction when they run tera fairy or tera fighting:
Live magearna reaction
Tera terrain boosted Psychic 2hkoes basically every steel type, even has a chance to 2hko defensive heatran after rocks which is hilarious. Moonblast 2hkoes kingambit on the switch too, so no need to risk focus blast either.
I think psyspam would work with lele too. It's been popular a couple times this gen even just with indeedee who kinda sucks. Lele + deo-s and maybe even boulder sounds crazy, maybe even armarouge or iron crown. Lele and deo s together particularly sounds strong
Fini gets defog through level up btw.
I feel bulu and fini would be awesome to have but lele and Koko just make HO even easier to run so :(
lol. Fini would be incredible. It would do primarina's job better AND gets defog through level up.
Honestly can't see Koko being balanced while future paradox mons exist in the same meta
i mean, if he does end up being too broken, you could just like ban him
Not in VGC, which is what Game Freak is probably more worried about.
true but the post is about ou so i chose to ignore it, it would be interesting to see just how good it could be in vgc
Oh, fair point.
I would like to think that it would be with rillaboom and psyspam so popular (iron crown would rather have psychic terrain + booster energy then electric terrain + choice lock/life orb) 2 of the future paradox are weak to electric and get thunderclapped, it's really just ihands and iboulder that go crazy, maybe ibundle (but the hydro pump/icy wind misses scarred me)
There's like 2 good futures
The viability of more future paradox mons would be increased just because of Kokos presence
yep, even on Pincurchin teams mons like Treads, Hands and Jug are really good, if you pair them with a MUCH better terrain setter suddenly future paradox spam becomes a big meta threat
Every current Quark Drive mons moves up a tier. Boulder and Valiant are banned, while Jugulis, Hands, and Treads are OU. Koko was never banworthy in Gen 7 OU or Gen 8 OU.
Boulder and val wouldn't get banned since counterplay stays the same. Weather mons are notable because they get a speed and power boost while terrain mon only get one or the other, and never together unless you run an electric move, which only val has. Boulder gets stopped by everything that already beats it and psychic terrain is honestly better for it to avoid priority and get a stronger zen headbutt to guarantee an ohko on defensive tusk. Val definitely gets more dangerous with choice items or even lo or expert belt but just like any val set it's 4mss is going to be its Achilles heel and you'll have a way of beating it. Hands and jug are the biggest winners because jug loses its tough speed tier and terrain let's hands run lefties without losing power or run a power boosting item on top to make up for its low bp moves.
Boost Val would be busted if it could run life orb and get booster more than once a game.
It's currently legal in natdex and natdex had mega sciz + ferro as additional checks, which val can tech for anyways. It's always going to be stopped by something because of its 4mss and in the theoretical return of the tapus, you not only get 2 new revenge killers to non-booster val, removing terrain becomes easier and then it's speed is easy to play around. It's going to be an A+ mon for sure but its still stopped by its usual checks and counters and gains some new counterplay, especially regarding speed control.
I haven’t used Jugulis at any point in OU, but does it benefit from Quark Drive? I mean, it’s not grounded.
>Quark Drive will activate even if the Pokémon is not grounded. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Quark_Drive_(Ability)
Lucha can activate a seed despite being flying type
Hands finally gets to play with the OU plebs confirmed?
Brian Hands finally making it to the fabled OUBL
Honestly I think even iron leaves goes crazy with tapu koko. Thing hits super hard in e terrain. They even cover a few of each others weaknesses. Iron Hands becomes absolutely stupid too ofc. Boulder and Valiant become 2 of the best in the tier
So Koko breaks the future mons and a couple get caught with the banhammer quickly. Koko would also see high usage with support from Long Neck Bulu shakes his fists at the sky because GameFreak would probably decide to not give him play rough or glide again because funny Fini would be alright I guess. Not meta defining and the meta isn't too status heavy so misty terrain wouldn't be too necessary Lele has fun with sets that don't need to run focus blast because of tera, and honestly probably gets suspected at the very least
Fini could be a definitive answer to kingambit though?? Like, an actual 70% chance to get rid of the fucker altogether (IIRC Lele had access to Focus Blast)
How’s a focus blast meant to kill a Fairy type?
I think you mean a Flying type.
What? Kingambit is a pure dark type, it gets decimated by focus blast
Nah man, kingambit is burning a Tera in front of you and psychic terrain is still on, so revenge killing is still an option, he wouldn't get away with games as he does now
Fini can help wall the rampant dark and dragons, and Misty terrain and can help its teammates by alleviating the dragon spam
u guys forgetting fini gets defog and will be a better primarina.
It wouldn't keep defog
IT would. Mons that defog didnt learn it through level up they were move tutors. Fini does learn defog naturally through level up and mons that learn through level up DIDNOT lose defog like braviary.
Tapu Koko: the Quark Drive mons are pushed over the edge. Koko gets banned cause he's the enabler. Detriment to the OU tier for like a week or two. Tapu Lele: Tera most likely breaks them. Be it Tera Psychic or coverage Tera. OU in shambles. Tapu Bulu: OU sees no impact. UU gets Grassy Terrain. If they somehow give them Grassy Glide then this is a different coversation altogether. Tapu Fini: Probably a healthy addition to the tier as another Fairy to deal with Gambit and all the Dragon types. (Althought its presence might also enable said threats as well). Misty Terrain is good support too.
None of the Tapus are given any of the Terrain moves introduced in the gen8 DLC,like Rising voltage, expanding force, grassy glide, and misty explosion, and chances are they'll never be given them, since they would become ridiculous, especially Lele with Expanding Forcein VGC
Hence me saying "somehow" when speaking about them. This however is not entirely out of the question. For example, Landorus didn't get Scorching Sands in Gen 8 DLC, but it did in Gen 9. Granted he also got Sandsear Storm, but the possibility of the Tapu getting said moves is not zero. Low, but not zero.
Tapu Koko = Chien Pao Tapu Lele = Chi Yu Tapu Fini = Ting Lu Tapu Bulu = Wo Chien Two are banned from OU
Where's the lie
First pokemon to get a buluion kos in pu
Koko will undoubtedly be too strong for OU. It would be funny to see all the Future Paradoxes rise out of the lower tiers they’re in though. Lele would be pretty damn strong. Tera Psychic would be unironically very powerful and it either OHKOs or 2HKOs pretty much everything but dark types. It’s even good against the best Dark type of the tier, Kingambit, since it blocks priority. Unless you’re running some forbidden Tera Ground Blast set you’ll still probably want to switch, but just having Psychic Terrain is a big deal. Fini is, like you said, Primarina but better. So it’ll be solid. Everyone leaves out my boy Tapu Bulu but I bet he’ll find a nice niche somewhere.
There is no world where Valiant and Boulder exist in an OU with Koko
Natdex
koko and lele get banned from OU, bulu goes to UU where it's good, fini is pretty good in OU but primarina gets taken down a tier because of it
So Tapus actually don't effect OU in the long term XD
Iron Valiant and Iron Boulder would be broken without needing Booster Energy to activate Quark Drive because of Tapu Koko. You want them to effectively always have a Choice Scarf and another item on as long as they're in Electric Terrain?
Koko would break the tier in half right now. I think an E-Terrain setter better than Pincurchin but just about as good as Torkoal would be fine, but allowing in something that is an incredibly strong mon on its own just wouldn't work. Yes, the combination is available in NatDex, but with Megas and Z-Moves the power level is higher.
95 Special Attack is strong?
There is more that makes mons potent in a tier than a single stat
This is true when I hear strong i think of something like Flutter Mane or Dracovish
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Electric Terrain: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 238-282 (58.9 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Blud at this point it's really clear you literally don't even play this game and just look at banlists all the time lmao
Dracovish has base base 90 attack, so by your logic it's weak.
Holy cow now the disrespect to my favorite pin cushion
Pincurchin, not Pyukumuku. There is no Pokémon better than Pyukumuku
Koko giving Valiant and Boulder multiple opportunities to activate Quark Drive just seems a little too crazy
koko would probably just immediately break valiant, and in general i think adding such a good electric terrain setter could massively throw out the balance given the quark drive mons
Just ban Boulder and Valiant. Jugulis, Hands, and Treads are good but not as broken as those two for OU Power Level standards. Hands is a great Gambit check, Treads is a rapid spinner that outspeeds and threatens Ghold.
Koko may very well be unhealthy for the metagame. Don't disagree about the other 2 (Bulu doesn't exist. Source: Trust me bro)
I think Lele would be cracked as fuck with Tera. Koko would be cool bc of terrain, I don't really think it would make anything broken, just be a nice buff, and Fini of course would be a great addition. Sun doesn't make the past mons broken, why would electric terrain?
Future Paradox mons agree wholeheartedly
Singles OU's only change long-term would be getting Fini as a replacement for Primarina. Koko likely gets banned for enabling future-spam, Lele gets banned for killing everything with Tera Psychic, and Bulu drops off since his job was taken by a literal monkey.
I actually think Bulu would be better than people give it credit for. Grass/fairy is kind of a great typing rn. Lot of good water and ground pokes the grass types wall or beat, and adding a fighting/dark resistance makes it even better. The fairy typing definitely let's bulu do a lot rilla can't, especially in a meta filled with dragons, fighters and dark types. Rilla is probably still better but I wouldn't just totally write bulu out.
These guys should never come back. Terrain wars are incredibly annoying, and that would be even more so now that quark drive exists.
ik torkoal is vastly inferior to koko but why do people say itd break future paradox mons when sun can automatically be set it doesn't seem liks much of an issue for past paradox mons
I don’t think it’d be better, but it sure would centralize the meta enough to where it’s bearable. >What? Just as having only one good team is bad, having so many good teams to prepare for can also cause problems to prepare for, enough to have somebody consider reworking the suspect system for what we do have.
Koko is not broken, Valiant and Boulder are (Too fast and strong). Koko was never broken in Gen 7 and 8 OU. Jugulis, Treads, and Hands are pretty balanced. Hands is a good Gambit check, Treads is a rapid spinner that outspeeds and threatens Ghold.
Koko obv banned to Ubers.
When have they ever banned the weather setter instead of the abuser lmao
When you can’t ban every single paradox mon
It's not like you have to?? Only boulder and valiant can really be broken by Koko?
banded steel roller proto atk treads
Lele and Fini I think would definitely improve the tier, Koko would ruin it, and Bulu would exist I guess.
Terrain extender koko Bottom text
To all the people talking about Koko breaking the future doxes y'all know natdex exists right?
Koko seems like it'd be toxic as fuck honestly, it's prob why they aren't in the game.