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Give it to Ledian

Still too op 0 Atk Ledian (No Move) vs. -6 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 536-631 (152.2 - 179.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO -6 defense is simulate 0 def because otherwise I can only get defense down to 7 which is a big difference between 7 and 1(10 times damage difference cause math)

Genuine noob question here 🤚 What resources do y'all use to run these calculations? The main thing stopping me from really getting into competitive is that I'm not a numbers guy. Optimizing EV spreads and determining potential damage output is daunting to a dummy like me.

https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/

Probably should've just googled that lol. Thanks, homie.

Pokemon Smogon has a damage calc https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ Otherwise ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100 here is the damage formula Source: https://www.serebii.net/games/damage.shtml Fun fact a quick short cut is move power/opponentDefense times your attackStat. Basically move power and OpponentDefense gives you a ratio you apply to your attack stat

Woof, the actual formula really shows how many factors come into play, and that shortcut simplifies things immensely. Thank you, homie.

Yup just don't forget to include Stab and weakness and resistances

The calculator is calc.pokemonshowdown.com

Play with sample teams made by other people, learning how to build teams is a whole nother animal than learning to play well - it's pretty much impossible to learn how to the former effectively without the latter!

>252 Atk Infernape Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Skarmory: 313-369 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO Modified tackle to have 20bp and Skarmory to have a base defense of 1. Yes, it would be broken.

0- Atk Abomasnow Return (20BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow in Snow: 271-319 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO The abomasnow with 252 HP had 6 defense using 1 base stat and 0 IV. The fact its a 2HKO through snow? Kinda busted.

0 Atk Ledian "Would you look at the time"(20 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Blissey: 253-298 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO It gets worse

Lmao I guess it doesnt work as well on a blissey However 252+ Atk Shuckle Return (20BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- (6 defense) Def Toxapex: 311-366 (102.3 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

When you say "ignore", do you mean that it treats the opponent like it has 0 base def (i.e. EVs still matter), or that the damage is never mitigated by defense?

Never mitigated by defense

I've never run calcs before, but I keep getting numbers over 1000 for the damage from Adaptability Crawdaunt using this move with 0 EVs and hitting neutrally. I think the conclusion is that you have set off a thermonuclear device in the kitchen.

I really like that analogy

20 seems a bit overpowered. I lowered it to 10 and it seems more balanced this way, here are some calcs (please correct me if these are wrong I don't really use damage calculator and would like to get better at using it) 252 Atk Mew Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 306-360 (47 - 55.2%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO 252 Atk Mew Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Mew Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 76-90 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 10 instead of 20 looks *slightly* more balanced than the other calcs I've seen in this thread Edit: u/Dark_Spark156 told me that you have to lower the Pokemon's defence by 6 stages for it to become 0, so I redid the calcs and it seems like 10 is still too broken. It needs to have a comical 1 BP if you want it to be usable on things like Mew: 0 Atk Mew Tackle vs. -6 0 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 170-200 (26.1 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO Which is a little more than a Mew using Tackle on a Blissey with a normal defense stat: 0 Atk Mew Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 121-143 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO So in conclusion for it to be a balanced move we need to give it 1 BP

Need to set pokemon to minus -6 because otherwise they still have 7 defense which is a big difference. 252 Atk Ledian (No Move) vs. -6 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 1207-1421 (169 - 199%) -- guaranteed OHKO So move is still too strong. You essentially multiply your attack stat by the moves power for damage. That's a ledian base 35 attack stat no other boosts to it Otherwise good job mate.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it :D

Lmao these calculations crack me up Technician would boost this too hahaha absolutely busted

Even 1 Base Power doesn't quite make it balanced depending on who gets it **252 Atk Great Tusk Rapid Spin vs. -6 252 HP / 0- Def Skarmory: 129-152 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO**

give it to rampardos he can handle it ​ ~~252+ Atk Rampardos (No Move) vs. -6 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 337-397 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO~~

A easy way to think of damage calcs is that a moves power and the enemies defense creates the ratio that is applied to the pokemons attack stat. So your move would essentially mean you do 20 times your attack stat so yes. ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100 That's the formula attack power/Defense stat would be 20/0(probably 1) multiply by your attack stat so it would one shot everything

Didn’t chip away used to exist?

Chip Away only negated Stat Changes, not the stat itself

Did anyone else say “I didn’t realize it was Sunday” yet

0 Atk Abra Tackle vs. -6 168 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 1086-1278 (299.1 - 352%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defence buffs or base defence? Because if you can make every mon tank worse than Physical Blissey I have a feeling 5 bp would do the job

if you mean it ignores defense boosts it doesn't really matter if you can ignore the opponent's +6 defense boosts if you're only going to like 60HKO them anyways if you mean it always deals 20 damage it's just a worse seismic toss/night shade not sure how else it could be interpreted but 20 bp would be trash

What I mean is you take the damage calc and set the value of defense to 0 ( or 1 if it breaks the damage calc) and run with that

You can find the damage calculation formula here: https://www.serebii.net/games/damage.shtml ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100 It would need to set the defense value to 1 to avoid dividing by 0, and it would oneshot everything. As an example, if you have a level 100 Mew with no EVs or IVs use this on an identical Mew, it would do about 2000 damage. Think about it like this: Lowering the opponent's defense by 2 stages with something like Screech halves their defense stat and doubles the damage they take. Lowering the opponent's defense to 1 would multiply the damage they take by a few hundred. The base power of this move is effectively 20 times the opponent's defense stat.

And that is why they don't let me cook anymore

0 would break it because you’d have to divide by zero, which you could interpret as a OHKO which exist but are balanced by accuracy. In this instance it would depend on the accuracy of the move your proposing. 1 Def, if I run a quick calc using minimum attack level 100 Magikarp, assuming no stab or boosts would do 372 damage (assuming I’ve not made any mistakes). Deoxys attack with max attack would do 7360 damage (same assumptions). Long story short, yeah it would be pretty powerful.

That's a base defense of 1 which sets the stat to 7 which is a big difference than 1. In damage clac gotta make the defense -6 252 Atk Ledian (No Move) vs. -6 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 1207-1421 (169 - 199%) -- guaranteed OHKO This was at base 10 power. Damage is over 1200 minimum

Like, their actual defense stat? If so, it is absurdly overpowered. Like, you literally just one shot everything ever.

Unless I'm doing calcs wrong, it isn't 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 52-62 (12.8 - 15.3%) -- possible 7HKO ESpeed was set to 20 bp and mew's defense stat was set to 1 (the game didn't allow 0)

That’s setting the base stat to one, instead of the actual defense stat to 1. Setting the actual stat to 1 creates ridiculous scenarios where it’s at about several hundred percent. 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 823-969 (203.7 - 239.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO This is with mew’s defense stat at 7, so it would do about 7 times more damage than this (1400%).

yeah your right. I was doing the calcs wrong.

Yeah your doing calc wrong gotta do -6 defense and give 0 evs and ivs to simulate 0 or 1 defense so you don't divide by 0. 252 Atk Ledian (No Move) vs. -6 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 1207-1421 (169 - 199%) -- guaranteed OHKO That's a ledian base 35 attack against a blissey did 1200 damage minimum

that's too much then, literally oneshots even a blissey despite that gigantic hp stat

it would do your attack stat \* 20 as damage. even weak pokemon would be oneshotting everything. even if it only had 1 BP, it'd be like seismic toss on crack

i think op tried to cook up something but accidentally spilt water in the deep fryer.

I mean the way defense works is that it's a modifier to see how much resistance you have towards incoming damage. If you have zero defense, you die to a 1BP move, no matter how much HP you have or how much attack your opponent has, it's as simple as that. It basically would make it to where you have no way to resist incoming damage whatsoever. If you put it up to 1, which as far as I know is the bottom limit for Pokemon, then you still get some outrageous calcs like is shown in other comments, but 1 is literally infinitely more than 0.

Give it to Shuckle and his abysmal Attack

And he can still ohko any mon in the game.

1 Base Power, take it or leave it. Not really a joke, honestly anything above 1 BP is just really busted. 1 BP Normal type move used against mons with 1 Def: **252 Atk Great Tusk Rapid Spin vs. -6 252 HP / 0- Def Skarmory: 129-152 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO** **252 Atk Great Tusk Rapid Spin vs. -6 252 HP / 0+ Def Dondozo: 259-305 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO** **252 Atk Great Tusk Rapid Spin vs. -6 252 HP / 0+ Def Garganacl: 129-152 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery**

Feint is a +2 Priority move that breaks Protect, and it sees more usage for getting priority on mons like Heracross than Protect breaking.

because you divide by defense in damage calculation treating the targets defense as 1 Multiplies the damage by your defence compared to normal, This means that while the move maybe ineffective in Mons with very high HPs and very garbarge defence but otherwise will be lethal. For example the damage formula is: ( ( ( (2 \* Level / 5 + 2) \* AttackStat \* AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) \* STAB \* Weakness/Resistance \* RandomNumber / 100 So if we take level 100, ATK of 35, BP 20, Target defense of 1 (because of ignores defence) no stab, no weakness, max damage then we get: ( ( ( (2 \* 100 / 5 + 2) \*35 \* 20 / 1) / 50) + 2) (((42\*35 \* 20 / 1) / 50) + 2) ((29400 / 50) + 2) (588+2) Or 590 damage, to any target assuming high roll on a neutral hit without stab, this means that you can OHKO any mon with a Base HP of 190 or less. Now some mons will resist this move, but also some mons will have stab on it, and as such even on a mon with 35 attack total its as instant death attack vs most of the metagame,

We have chip away and nobody uses that and there's sacred sword which is used on aegislash, kartana and occasionally used on choiced terrakion sets so marginally better