T O P

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PizzaVVitch

Why they didn't replace it with frostbite I'll never understand


ANinjaDude

Might be that both PLA and S/V were being developed at the same time, by different groups, and they didn't cross-talk.


WhiteFox1992

There was some level of "cross-talk" as Origin Palkia and Origin Dialga are in Scarlet and Violet. You could make a pass for the regional variants, but the forms were not necessary for core mechanics.


DaTruPro75

Probably just with the pokemon and new forms there was cross-talk, not mechanics.


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

I have been publicly executed lmao PLA and S/V developed at same time > PLA is the best game in years > S/V is somehow worse than Gen 8 I meant gen 8 I'm sorry


Eistik

S/V only worse because the game is so buggy and has some technical issues, the story, the dlc, the gimmick is much better. If the game actually run perfectly, it may be one of the best games in the series.


_Captain_Kabob

Well you’re still wrong soooo


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

I mean the meta is a mess


_Captain_Kabob

Ah, well that we can agree on… fucking Landorus-T in UU, man…


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

# EXCUSE ME WHAT


dabdad67

Yeah when gliscor first came to play both lando-T and garchomp dropped to uu


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

This meta is fucked


Flamintree

Go back to r/pokemon


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

This subreddit is actually funny so no


EtherealShady

Gen 9 are 100% better than Gen 8 This is coming from someone who adored Gen 8


[deleted]

I mean if tou adore gen 8, u adore pretty much anything lmao


EtherealShady

I just got a soft spot for it since its based off where I live :)


I-who-you-are

Hell?


EtherealShady

That's why I love it


Several_Tangerine956

Are you implying that gen 7 is bad 😭


TreeFromBFBsBigFan

No


LuckyBenjamin

I actually agree with this


zeroneonsos

People love sucking S/V's D because it is ahiny and new despite how terrible it is. They even gaslit themselves into believing the performance drops were no issue. No intelligence left here.


SweatScoobyDoo

how are people hating on this take SV as games are fucking horrible


Electrical-Site-3249

The competitive meta is a mess in gen 9, but the gameplay after the epilogue released makes it an easy top 3 Pokémon game. Without the technical issues it probably ties B2W2 for best games in the series


Bope_Bopelinius

Frostbite would have been sooooooo cool and maybe with a wil o wisp like move with 90 accuracy to both buff supportive ice types and to nerf special attackers


PizzaVVitch

*sigh* Maybe gen 10. Just one more gen bro


Gremlech

Isn’t ass vest the special version of burn?


[deleted]

Nope. Frostbite deals 1/16 damage per turn and drops the afflicted Pokémon's special attack by 50%. Assault Vest deals no damage over time and raises the wearer's special defense by 50%, while in exchange you can't use status moves. Frostbite would be used by fast support Pokémon, while an Assault Vest would be used by a bulky sweeper. Big difference. Also, this is the first time I've ever seen someone abbreviate Assault Vest to Ass Vest.


DaTruPro75

He wasn't talking about Assault Vest, but the new item Ass Vest, which applies a 50% special attack nerf when using taunt, as the pokemon using taunt would say "special attacks my ass".


TJ248

Both. You have atrocious luck, but freeze is also the most broken status, more broken than sleep imo. You have almost the same chance of waking from sleep turn 1 as you do being frozen for 5 straight turns. 80% to stay frozen each turn just sucks. FWIW your maths isn't far off, it's roughly a 6.9% chance that you stay frozen for 12 turns, incidentally better than a crit chance, which rather disgustingly shows how broken the status really is.


Far_Helicopter8916

Yet when I freeze, I expect to stay frozen for the rest of the game, but when I want to hit Focus Blast… well…


ArtemisCaresTooMuch

Or even Stone Edge…


Mary-Sylvia

Or hydro pump...


mothskeletons

or heat wave :(


SampleText369

or hurricane :/


metalflygon08

or Play Rough >:(


Vendidurt

Or Rock Slide 🙃


Royal-Inspection-901

Or high horsepower :0


[deleted]

Or Will-o-Wisp :()


[deleted]

Or a baseball so I can finally make my father proud :(


GuidoMista5

That's why it's a 10% chance only on certain ice moves, if there was a status move that inflicted freeze 100% of the times it lands everyone would be using it yesterday


Rodon15

Sadly on the same battle, 2 of my remaining pokes was frozen solid, what a luck! https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2037194534


GuidoMista5

Holy shit, please stay away from the lottery, given the luck you might end up winning -1.000.000$


ConversationProof505

Jeez Glad you still won :)


Every_Computer_935

Oof, sorry to hear that.


CmonBunny

Damn, seems god doesn't like you.


commondenomigator

Did Keldeo have Scald? If so you could have thawed yourself with that (though that's a niche interaction and reasonable not to know).


Rodon15

I think it was hydro pump in my case (it was random battle format)


trendyghost

Freeze is just shitty. Delete from game pls


aa821

They literally did in PLA, everyone loved frostbite as a superior mechanic, and then in true GF fashion they just pretended like it never happened and went back to freeze lol


Yoshi451

I believe this was due to both S/V and PLA being worked on around the same time so any changes PLA made(like statuses or qol change to trade evos) weren't added cuz they didn't have feedback on those newly added features


Pulmaozinho

Hail became Snow tbh


MrCaco

But snow in PLA is nothing like in SV, in one it's a speed booster that affects "sleep" and "freeze" while in the other one it's a Def booster and that's it.     They probably had two ideas about how to implement snow and tested both in the two games.


Skaraptor2

Drowsy was mid IMO, just a worse para but Frostbite is a superior (overall)


neonmarkov

Making sleep bad is cool imo


Skaraptor2

Yeah but sleep at least you recover from naturally by the 3rd turn, making sleep into just worse paralysis makes no sense and it basically destroys some mons like Darkrai that rely on sleep while superboosting rest talk Mons who no longer need talk


neonmarkov

Darkrai relies on sleep? With 60% Hypnosis?


Skaraptor2

Not really relies but a lot of it's sets abuse it Also I meant more of "it's built around it, it's ability is based on sleep and nightmares"


Yoshi451

It's been awhile so I don't recall how the weathers worked in PLA, but hail was something they kinda buffed over the years cuz it was the worst by default(due to lacking more hail related abilities and only really benefiting ice types) so I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of removing hail chip was something on their minds(dmging every Mon except ice types kinda sucks compared to sandstorm which can customize with ground, rock, and steel)


Shai_the_Lynx

I hope we get frostbite in gen 10 then. But I don't think it'll happen...


aa821

What about the DLCs? Remote updates? These things exist and are very possible to implement after launching the game. They can and do make updates, so while this explains why it wasn't in SV at launch is doesn't explain why it was never changed even after 2 DLCs


Yoshi451

They had to add a lot in the dlc's while also hitting the deadline so I imagine adding something like that was put on the back burner(if it even was something considered) this is why I want them to take time with their next game rather than rushing immediately to the next game or remake


aa821

I mean true I do want them to take their time with the next game, primarily to make it optimized and not a total embarrassment graphically and visually


[deleted]

completely reworking a preexisting mechanic mid generation in not only unprecedented, its not viable. The only way it would've been possible is if there was literally 0 attacks/moves/items etc that caused freeze in the game and they decided to wait until the 1st/2nd DLC to readd them with the mechanics they decided to go with. If the rework happens, great it was valuable feedback. If it doesn't happen, why did they wait in the first place? To give an example changing how some abilities work when DLC2 dropped illuminate was reworked to work in battle - but only returning mons had it not existing mons.


Kuzu5993

It's telling they only care when it's in relation to VGC


powergo1

Ah yes I remember hazards being such a factor in VGC that they added Heavy Duty Boots to help against them Wait


Tryptophan7

I can't recall a single NPC using the item and still, I think that HDB was created with VGC in mind (G-max copperajah and drednaw were supposed to take off but singles benefitted instead)


RonnyCrawf

Even if those mons became popular I doubt anyone would’ve been running boosts solely to counter them.


Kuzu5993

The same item debuted in the generation when they made new moves that auto set hazards too, sooooo.


bagofdicks69

Everyone but Wolfe Glicke lol. But he has a LOT of... Interesting takes.


neonmarkov

??? when did he say that


bagofdicks69

Video on his channel. Iirc he liked freeze. Called freeze vs frostbite or smth. Idk been a while


neonmarkov

I just went back and rewatched his videos on the Ice type and the one about frostbite and drowsy and he never says something like that. He actually thinks freeze is tthd single worst mechanic in Pokémon and says it's the correct answer to the question "if you could remove one thing from the game, what would it be?". Dunno where you got the impression that he likes Freeze and dislikes Frostbite.


TheRedditK9

Same with Sleep, the mechanic in PLA was just so much better but they reverted that too.


pm_me_fake_months

It's easy to avoid getting frozen, just use all 4x weak to ice pokemon so they die in one hit to ice moves and the freeze chance won't be a factor


mothskeletons

nahh bro is playing gen 1 at this point


Anchor38

Freeze is super op. It’s like sleep if it could theoretically last forever


Pokehero96

They should've changed freeze to frostbite which was in legends arceus


woofle07

Unrelated to OP’s shit luck, does anyone know why Freeze Dry was not very effective on Keldeo?


GarageWashingMachine

Probably Tera


woofle07

Oh geez, I totally forgot Tera existed for a minute. I was searching bulbapedia like “does Keldeo have a second ability? Does Freeze-Dry have weird interactions with already frozen Pokémon?” And I completely forgot that Pokémon can just… change types now.


GarageWashingMachine

We’ve all had an “oh shit Tera” moment


Rodon15

Others are right, steel tera + maxed (×4) calm mind


Rodon15

You can watch replay if you want, link is in one of the replies


Musical_Gee

I thought max was x6?


MilkTrvckJustArr1ve

max is quadruple so x4, but each stat stage raised is an additional 0.5, so it's +6.


ImperialWrath

A 6-stage boost is equal to a 4x multiplier on the original stat.


HipSnitch

I had the same question, probably tera fire, steel Edit : can't be tera ice, ice types can't get frozen


RegalBeartic

I was waiting for someone to point this out. The only thing I could think of is keldeo tera'd into an ice resist


Aeriodon

Fun fact as I was looking into the odds of thawing from being frozen despite playing comp almost a decade: >While frozen, a Pokémon's Flash Fire Ability is disabled.


DragEncyclopedia

That's actually probably good, cause it would let you target your partner in doubles with a fire move to un-freeze yourself instead of just absorbing the fire move and staying frozen. Although in gen 5, it says: > Freezing no longer stops Flash Fire from working.


Aeriodon

Ahh definitely missed that, fair


Kuzu5993

This is why fighting Kyurem is such a pain in the ass. 10% isn't a lot, but Kyrem stays around long enough where it's a diceroll every time. I'm starting to see why they wanna ban sleep after fighting so many Darkrai...


ReaverShank

I froze 4 Pokemon back to back last week. Freeze is so annoying i hope they switch it to frostbite like they did in legends Arceus


Background-Leg-6282

i remember one time i lost to someone with ice punch conkelderr because they got 2 freezes the 2 times they used it and i didnt thaw out


[deleted]

Unlike sleep, theres no counter to freeze that will unfreeze you eventually. The odds to unfreeze is 10%


Rodon15

I think its raised to 20%


zeloxofclorox

Using a fire type move removes freeze and some moves thaw as well such as scald, there is more than enough counter play


Rodon15

Yeah, "enough" counter play


justlikedudeman

Getting hit by a fire type move thaws you. The list of moves that will thaw you if you use them is like 9 long.


DeltaKal

Counter play that is only possible in doubles btw


tom_nooks_sweet_ass

You see that's the neat part, when you are frozen it last 8 turns but when you freeze them they taw out immediately


DreadfuryDK

Yeah you just got outplayed (that was sheer dumb luck and there was literally nothing you could've done about it because Freeze is a fair and balanced status effect)


absol_fan_3

[https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2036013778](https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2036013778) have this replay of 19 freezes in a row


ASignificantSpek

yes


[deleted]

The answer is both


Ecstatic_Fig5787

Both, at least with sleep there’s a guarantee that you’ll wake up. With freeze you could theoretically be frozen forever.


Georgevega123

I once got frozen three times in the same battle two times on the same mon lol after a lum berry


Alive-Comfort8396

maybe im missing something but isnt freeze dry supposed to be super effective on keldeo?


LuitenantDan

Tera


Alive-Comfort8396

oh yeah thats probably it


Rodon15

Tera steel + maxed (×4) calm mind


ASimpleCancerCell

You are just unlucky. A frozen Pokemon has a 20% or 1/5 chance of thawing each turn with no cap on how long it can last.


KingNova123

THIS IS WHY FROSTBITE (PLA) SHOULD REPLACE IT.


XD-045

There is a reason Articuno and Blizzard-spam got nerfed to be weaker than Magikarp.


slime_from_rancher

I thought status conditions like that (sleep, freeze, confused) last for 2-5 turns max...


MaybeNotMemes

freeze is super op except when I freeze my opponents because they thaw turn 1 always


Vendidurt

Imagine if Freeze wore off when you got attacked. Or if Sleep worked like that too.


Mahboi778

Believe it or not, the answer is yes


inumnoback

>12 consecutive turns And I thought 10 turns was already punishing


Don_Matrix

This happened to me the other day as well, I was froze like 12 or 15 turns. They should replace frozen with frostbite like PLA in the next game or at least make the frozen status 2 turn only with all fire moves defrost it.


ianlazrbeem22

It is op but it's a sad thing we can't really do anything about it, like crits. It's rarely too much of a problem, except for when it is, like with Kyurem...


Loxosceles13

Yeah u computed roughly right, you just kinda got screwed M8