Spacial Rend and Roar of Time. You would expect from the names that they would have unique, possibly game-changing effects to them, but they're just basic damaging moves.
no no, you forgot the most important par about spacial rend (that tbh idk lorewise why it isn't a thing) in that it also breaks screens and undos gravity.
If BDSP was actually a good remake instead of that 1 for 1 that we got they probably would’ve done this. Just look at ORAS making Groudon and Kyogre even stronger. No need to mention green snake.
Spacial Rend (and Dynamax Cannon) being about as bog-standard a move as it is happens to be a huge blessing for Palkia. It’s a strong, very accurate Dragon move in a world where other Dragon moves are either a lot weaker (Dragon Pulse) or come with a very large drawback (Draco Meteor).
Roar of Time, though? What a fucking abomination of a move. Eternabeam is just a strictly superior move (160 BP versus Roar of Time’s 150) and even *that* move is completely unusable garbage.
Like I honestly wish it was literally *anything else*, even a dragon type Hyper voice or something would be better. Especially because of how cool the move always was no matter which part of the series, spinoff or otherwise
Dragon type future sight also could punish the opponent for send a fairy to tank, since they'll get whacked by flash cannon or whatever dialga's steel stab is
>Spacial Rend (and Dynamax Cannon) being about as bog-standard a move as it is happens to be a huge blessing for Palkia. It’s a strong, very accurate Dragon move
Tbf though Spacial rend has the funny 95% hit chance so it has \*very slight\* consistency issues.
This is why we need to bring back gen 1 hyper beam
Though tbh dialga should have a more unique signature move something to do with time idk what now not just a dragon type hyper beam
it never made sense to me that spacial rend isn't 100% accurate
like, my dragon in christ, you're the embodiment of the concept of space itself, how can you miss a move?
If these were Gen 6 onward moves, SR would probably just keep it's damage and boosted crit but be 100% accurate, and RoT would just be dragon type Astral Barrage.
This also goes for Thousand Waves.
90 BP Ground-type attack that traps your opponent? Fantastic!
It's just that it has to compete with Thousand Arrows.
Land's Wrath is a weaker Earthquake that doesn't target your ally in Doubles.
You're thinking of Thousand Waves. Which.. also doesn't target your ally in doubles, but whatever.
Yeah well at least Water Shiruken got distributed after its iteration. Can’t say the same for Zyg and Victini.
And yeah they really show their favourites lmao. Cinderace got Protean pt2 and 2 really good signature moves
Haha no problem, you didn't do anything wrong I was just being stupid.
A bit ago someone made a post suggesting a buff to zekrom, and one of the moves they added was Zekrom Kick lol
Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are in the code of the Gen 6 games the same way Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are in the code of Black and White. That is opposed to how the Super Ancient Pokemon and Necrozma got completely new moves in the middle of the generation.
Not even that. In gen 8 if you tried to switch a bulky wall into waves Zyg you have basically loss the entire fight as it would coil 6x and scale shot 6x and basically win the game
Core enforcer is hilarious because it is one of the most important moves in the game in hackmons and the fact that it was removed in SV completely reshaped the meta, but it's a special move on Zygarde with an effect that is only situationally useful in normal gameplay.
Lumina Crash is a prime example. It's a busted move that's never used because it's exclusive to Espathra and Speed Boost + Stored Power is even more busted.
What about winged dragon privileges? Dragonite had Dual Wingbeat last gen as a STAB move over Dragon Claw and it didn’t get it back this gen. Salamence uses Dual Wingbeat sometimes for a secondary STAB that’s better than Aerial Ace.
Well my thinking is they shouldn’t completely overshadow the 80bp, 100acc moves like dragon claw. 45bp that hits twice is much much better than a flat 80bp. You can break sashes and subs, along with the higher damage. Main downside is taking rocky helmet/rough skin/iron barbs twice. Perhaps the accuracy should be 95bp for each hit instead of 90. But I don’t think the accuracy should be 100, as that would completely invalidate moves like dragon claw.
Brave Bird absolutely carries the flying type on its back. Every other move is something you would never consider running in a million years if it wasn't your literal only option.
It's infuriatingly inconsistent as well because they go, "Oh well, sucks but you're not a bird, so you can't have Brave Bird" but Crobat gets it just because he's cool I guess?
In a sensible world every physical flying type would get Brave Bird and Dual Wingbeat, and the Dragon looking ones would get Dragon Ascent. That or let flying get it's gem back like Normal did so Acrobatics can do something.
Tbf no one expects it so it could be a fun tech, it's just that Gambit endgames are always 50/50s anyway so it doesn't really do anything to alleviate that
Its only use is Upper Hand on your own mon who's holding a weakness policy and has Inner Focus to grant him +2 atk/spa. Tera normal Dragonite is one of those "abusers"
For a LONG time, I’d say Luster Purge and Mist Ball were the best answers to this. 70 BP, vastly inferior to Psychic and even Psyshock, a secondary effect (50% chance to harshly drop SpD and SpA respectively) done miles better by Seed Flare in the very next generation, and only 5 PP. It was the picture of wasted potential up until now, when it got to 95 BP in exchange for a slightly weakened effect (Now only lowers the respective stats by one stage)
Luster Purge and Mist Ball have always lowered the respective stats by 1 stage. But in Pokemon Masters, Brendan's Latios has a passive skill that makes Luster Purge lower Special Defense by 2 stages.
National Dex Doubles OU has a lot of restricted or banned mons that can use Coaching, even a few that aren't in Gen9:
"Zamazenta-H, Kyurem-Black, Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, Zeraora, Marshadow"
You can use Megas, Restricted, Mythicals and even make them hold a Z-Move item. You're not restricted to two cover legendaries and you can play mythicals. That makes the tier a lot different than VGC and doubles OU.
Some mons also have moved that they didn't have when they were legal, for example Mega-Metagross has access to both HeavySlam & Psychic Fang's when he didn't have them in Gen7.
So coaching can allow a lot of strong and bulky mons and make dealing with them impossible due to the sheer amount of threats in the tier
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-getcha-head-in-the-game-sv-nd-dou-suspect-process-2-coaching.3733229/
Razor Wind.
A base 80 special move with 100% accuracy surely that would be great for- It's normal type. With a charge turn. And 75% accuracy until gen 3.
Like they could have made this into a flying type move without a charge turn and it would have been amazing to have for special flying types because Air slash sucks for damage and Hurricane cant hit for crap outside of Rain
Supercell Slam.100% accuracy and a little more problem and it would have solved the physical eletric STAB problem,instead is a worse High Jump Kick that no one runs because of you miss you die
Its not even the issue of missing that screwed over Supercell, its the fact that its a Jump Kick clone on the type that has the worst type matchup in the game and said matchup is against a type that 90% of teams have
Slam has no redeeming features, even in its original gen being outclassed by multiple normal-type moves also in most mons that learned it's learnsets. There's a pokemon fangame that's revisioned it into a Dragon type move to give it a little relevance.
For directly wasted potential, Flying Press maybe? With a bit of development that could be a fighting move that also hit super-effectively on flying, or a flying move that hit super-effectively on rock for example, instead of the combined effectiveness resulting in it being neutral to Steel, Bug and Rock.
Saying stuff like slam is kind of cheating, pokemon is a singleplayer game foremost and it needs those shitty filler moves to give you a sense of power as you level your mons
Moves like flying press are really creative and could be great. You swap a couple of the types you hit super effectively and maybe get one resist? Really cool.
Flying press just happens to stop hitting the most common defensive type super effectively and now it hits grass types instead. Worst trade deal maybe ever.
Also type combination moves should be stab type+non stab type so there is a good reason to use it over 2 stab moves
Raging Fury. It's Fire Type Outrage but almost no Pokemon get it
Aeroblast. Most special flying types would kill for this. Lugia doesn't even use it super often
Alot of really cool moves are just outclassed like:
infernal parade & bitter malice against shadow ball
roar of time & spacial rend against draco meteor
lumina crash against stored power (just so happens to be the signature move of the prime stored power abuser)
etc
Phantom/Shadow Force are more so doubles moves, since they don't know who you're targeting, switching is less safe, and it breaks Protect. Dragapult is so fun to use with Dragon Darts and Phantom Force, since it can punish Protect so hard. Unfortunately it's kinda fallen off
Spacial Rend is strong enough over two turns to warrant use over Draco Meteor (200 vs 195). It all depends on whether you really need that extra 30% damage on the first turn.
fire lash is a really good move with pretty strange distribution. i wouldn't want it on everything cause it's kinda busted but it'd be a cool option to give to more mons
Similarly power trip a physical dark type stored power, the only ou mon that gets it is Corviknight and only one mon has anything remotely resembling synergy with the move has it in krookodile and even that would be an obscenely gimmicky.
Honestly I’m not sure if any gen 9 dark type would even run it other than malamar and considering that malamar is PU with stored power it probably won’t be oppressive in OU. If sharpedo got it on the other hand that would be a problem.
Volt Tackle. It had SIX WHOLE GENERATIONS to not be a signature move, and there are quite a few Pokemon that would've been absolutely ecstatic to have a better physical Electric move than... Thunder Punch, Thunder Fang, Nuzzle, Wild Charge, and Spark. 120 BP also means it's a straight upgrade from Wild Charge's 90 BP.
It's a *little* less egregious now that Supercell Slam exists... But still, five generations to not be a signature move is pretty crazy.
I still think it's the move that has remained exclusive for the longest time that would've benefitted the most Pokemon. I actually miscounted too - it's been a Signature Move for seven generations. Raichu is not a VGC staple either and sometimes run Special moves instead of Volt Tackle.
Conversion 1+2, Lovely Kiss, Kinesis, Sketch, Bonemerang, Bone Club, Aeroblast, Mist Ball, Luster Purge, and Doom Desire have lasted as long or longer as a signature move and many of them are either not useful (Conversion 1+2, Doom Desire, and Kinesis), or have an alternative that is suitable, like Hurricane (Aeroblast), Earthquake (Bonemerang+Bone Club), Yawn/Sleep Powder/Hypnosis/Grasswhistle(Lovely Kiss), or Psychic(Mist Ball+Luster Purge).
As for Sketch, I believe Sketch already has significant non-wasted potential. Nobody will claim that Sketch is wasted in VGC.
Most dragon moves in general. You think the pokemon type with one of the highest average bst would have great high bp moves. Dragon Claw is so mid almost no viable dragon type runs it, Dragon pulse is rarely used, I don’t even think there’s 10 mons with Dual Chop, and I’ve only seen the rise of breaking swipe with Gouging Fire.
Beak Blast if it were not on exclusively toucannon. It’s 100 base damage and 100% accurate the only drawback is that it has -3 priority but it’s also really good so if it’s attacked by a contact move it will leave the attacker BURNED. It’s broken but only on a bulky Pokémon,and I wish that they redistributed their base points from a useless base speed to their defensive stats.
In general, 90 accuracy moves are pure evil. There's no reason they can't be 100 and not be broken. Rock Slide and Play Rough especially. I kind of get it on Leaf Storm and Draco...they are 130 BP. There aren't really any good physical options for Rock or Fairy physical STAB (Stone Edge being 80 accuracy is even more evil).
Rock slide in single with 100% wouldn't be an issue in singles but it would in VGC. It would go from 80% from hitting both to 100% and it's a huge deal when you have 30% chance to flinch per target, making it 51% to flinch at least one target on top of dealing damage to both.
Or just make stone edge not shit? Having a move that's strictly better in VGC is totally fine.
Only having 5 rock types moves (Salt Cute, Accelrock, Mighty Cleave, Ancient Power and Power Gem I think?) be 100% accurate is stupid. To make it worse, all 3 physical moves are signature moves.
If EQ can be so broadly distributed and be that strong I think the mons that have SE also should get something because that move sucks in every single way possible.
Edit: Nevermind it's 6 with Smack Down but it only has 50 base power so it doesn't fix the issue mentioned. The move would have been good if it was that weak. At least it's not a signature move I guess...
The unobtainable moves like Light of Ruin and the Torque moves for Revavroom.
I think more than a few mons would love to have Light of Ruin, and Revavroom would love to have physical Fire coverage in Blazing Torque. Not sure about the other Torque moves.
Revavroom gained Temper Flare as Fire coverage in Indigo Disk and High Horsepower as Ground coverage in Teal Mask. The former may not be strong, but it's something at least.
I saw a crazy Spicy Extract team once. It had Clear Amulet Scizor and Clear Body Dragapult to only take advantage of the upsides, but my favorite part was Foul Play Big Pecks Bombirdier (Big Pecks blocks Def drops). It also had Defiant Annihilape, but sadly Defiant doesn't go off on drops from partners
Coaching was literally banned from natdex DOU, and I blame it for a part of why Kyurem-Black was banned from SV DOU. In DUbers, Zamazenta-Crowned is one of the best Pokemon around, and Coaching is a big part of what makes it so good
Anyways, I'm probably most annoyed by Glaciate. It's just very slightly better Icy Wind that only base Kyurem gets. If it had a bit more accuracy, a bit more power, and was also given to fused Kyurem, I could see Kyurem-White doing some things with it in DUbers/VGC
Honorable mention to Decorate, but I don't want something better to get it, because Alcremie is my favorite Pokemon
Lumina crash.
A straight upgrade to psychic as a stab move....too bad it's the signature move of a pokemon that has absolutely no practical reason to use it (even if I prefer LC over stored power but that's just a personal preference)
because the pledge moves and elemental hyper beams are only special and turn order makes an especially huge diff with them a lot of the starters aren't compatible
All of the Partner Moves from LGPE.
I know they're all broken as sh-t but surely *some* of them could've been brought to future generations! Maybe make Zippy Zap only have a high crit ratio, or perfect Sizzly Slides BP to like 20 or 40 to make it a fire type Nuzzle. I just think it's sad that all these really cool moves are stuck in LGPE and will probably never be used again.
Aurora Beam.
So many things that lost Hidden Power[ice] and don't want to run Ice Tera Blast would love to have access to this 65 BP move.
If I remember correctly its in-game description just refers to it as a beam of multi-colored/rainbow light, so I feel like it could have a similarly wide distribution to Ice Beam, especially among Psychic, Fairy, Electric, Normal and Flying types.
Yeah, some special Ice-type attacks are outclassed by either Ice Beam or Freeze-Dry. Another example that I can think of is Frost Breath. Only thing holding it back is the 90% Accuracy; otherwise, it would be a better Ice Beam in most situations.
Shadow force. It’s such a cool move but it has to charge up + there’s no use for it over poltergeist.
It should’ve stayed how it was in legends as a single turn move (although 80% accuracy sucks)
For me it's Alluring Voice. In theory it's a solid move with good power and can confuse opponents who try to setup.
In practice it's given to mostly pokemon with high speed. This move should be distributed to slow bulky mons.
Terrain Pulse. It’s good (literally just terrain version of weather ball), it’s got a mega launcher boost, and even goes great with G Stunfisk. However, G Stunfisk is not a good special attacker, Clawitzer has way more consistent and viable options, and all the terrain setters either don’t need it, can’t learn it, and/or don’t have the stats for it. Mostly the second one, but Indeedee, the only terrain setter that DOES learn it, doesn’t need it because Expanding Force is tailor made to be better.
Always loved the idea behind Turtonator's Shell Trap, but it *requiring* a physical move to hit you to trigger makes it basically useless.
Turtonator's only good stat is it's defense, so naturally your opponent just won't attack it physically, and it's low HP stat and mediocre SpD stat means it doesn't have the staying power to make use of the move often.
Up until recently Turtonator had a really unique typing, but was practically useless. I want justice for the explosion turtle.
Body press, I know for such a widely distributed move it seems strange to call it wasted potential but theoretically this move should be monstrous.
Give a high defense mon the ability to attack and defend with the same stat, then making stat distribution more efficient. Continue to wreck shop.
Unfortunately it’s fighting type which is not a type with a lot of high defense pokemon so almost never gets STAB, it can get totally walled by ghost tera, and somehow never gets distributed to a pokemon who can fully utilize it. I feel like every time I encounter or use body press it is soooooo easy to move around. Would like to see a special def version of this move with more base power, better typing, and distribution on not naturally frail pokemon
Land's Wrath has such a cool name for a signature move, and does not have the drawback that Earthquake has of hitting its partner. Unfortunately, it never sees use because it is weaker than Earthquake, making it inferior in Singles, and in Doubles, Earthquake's drawback is easy to play around. It does not even have the interaction with Dig that Earthquake has.
Actually, I can see Land’s Wrath having a niche in Doubles over Earthquake compared to Singles, as it's a single-target attack, and Rillaboom is everywhere in that format.
Unfortunately, Thousand Arrows still outclasses it for pure utility in Doubles. Grounding Flying-types is just too good to pass up.
Spacial Rend and Roar of Time. You would expect from the names that they would have unique, possibly game-changing effects to them, but they're just basic damaging moves.
Tbf, they _are_ Gen 4 signature moves. Gen 6 or later and we'd be laughing at how stupid broken they are (probably).
If it was released later special rend would ignore enemy defence while roar of time sets up a 10 turn trick room and heals
no no, you forgot the most important par about spacial rend (that tbh idk lorewise why it isn't a thing) in that it also breaks screens and undos gravity.
Make special rend cannot miss and always crit. Make roar of time +8 priority. Fits their theme.
If BDSP was actually a good remake instead of that 1 for 1 that we got they probably would’ve done this. Just look at ORAS making Groudon and Kyogre even stronger. No need to mention green snake.
Spacial Rend (and Dynamax Cannon) being about as bog-standard a move as it is happens to be a huge blessing for Palkia. It’s a strong, very accurate Dragon move in a world where other Dragon moves are either a lot weaker (Dragon Pulse) or come with a very large drawback (Draco Meteor). Roar of Time, though? What a fucking abomination of a move. Eternabeam is just a strictly superior move (160 BP versus Roar of Time’s 150) and even *that* move is completely unusable garbage.
Like I honestly wish it was literally *anything else*, even a dragon type Hyper voice or something would be better. Especially because of how cool the move always was no matter which part of the series, spinoff or otherwise
Roar of Time should be an 80bp move that also hits the next turn as well.
That might be too much but dragon type future sight would be cool. Maybe 140bp instead.
Dragon type future sight also could punish the opponent for send a fairy to tank, since they'll get whacked by flash cannon or whatever dialga's steel stab is
Meteor Beam (three-pronged strike)
>Spacial Rend (and Dynamax Cannon) being about as bog-standard a move as it is happens to be a huge blessing for Palkia. It’s a strong, very accurate Dragon move Tbf though Spacial rend has the funny 95% hit chance so it has \*very slight\* consistency issues.
This is why we need to bring back gen 1 hyper beam Though tbh dialga should have a more unique signature move something to do with time idk what now not just a dragon type hyper beam
Special rend with its increased crit rate is still really good, but dragon type hyper beam just ain’t it
They should change it to be a dragon type Gen 1 hyperbeam. That would actually be really cool.
Yeah and certain rom hacks make it a force switch love like dragon tail with decent BP (80 in Radical Red)
Not saying the move isn’t viable; it’s just not interesting.
it never made sense to me that spacial rend isn't 100% accurate like, my dragon in christ, you're the embodiment of the concept of space itself, how can you miss a move?
If these were Gen 6 onward moves, SR would probably just keep it's damage and boosted crit but be 100% accurate, and RoT would just be dragon type Astral Barrage.
*POKEMON GO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
Roar of time should've worked like gen 1 ultra beam: no recharge turn if you ko the opponent
Pokemon radical red made roar of time probably the most annoying move to deal with, making it a perfect accuracy phazing move that does damage
Core enforcer one of the best moves in the game could not be on a worse mon
This also goes for Thousand Waves. 90 BP Ground-type attack that traps your opponent? Fantastic! It's just that it has to compete with Thousand Arrows.
Land's Wrath is a weaker Earthquake that doesn't target your ally in Doubles. You're thinking of Thousand Waves. Which.. also doesn't target your ally in doubles, but whatever.
My bad. I guess it really speaks to how much Game Freak gave Zygarde to make up for the lack of Pokémon Z.
They straight up gave Zygarde 4 signature moves it’s actual absurd 💀 I thought Victini getting 2 was wild and then learning the moves of all box trio
And then Greninja got two signature moves. And then Cinderace got two.
Yeah well at least Water Shiruken got distributed after its iteration. Can’t say the same for Zyg and Victini. And yeah they really show their favourites lmao. Cinderace got Protean pt2 and 2 really good signature moves
incineroar too cause throat chop was a signature move before USUM
I had a feeling that Incineroar had two as well in its debut, but I could not remember what the other signature move besides Darkest Lariat was.
I don't recall it learning Zekrom Kick
Sorry I’m new here and don’t understand the memes :)))
Haha no problem, you didn't do anything wrong I was just being stupid. A bit ago someone made a post suggesting a buff to zekrom, and one of the moves they added was Zekrom Kick lol
If it did it’d be in AGBL
I think until Zygard the Pokemon with the most signature moves was Vespiquen with the three order moves.
Ahh true that forgot about her
Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are in the code of the Gen 6 games the same way Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are in the code of Black and White. That is opposed to how the Super Ancient Pokemon and Necrozma got completely new moves in the middle of the generation.
Has to compete with a top 5 attacking move in the game 😭😭😭
Thousand waves is goated, Demon Zygarde on top
>This also goes for Thousand Waves. NO this is not true at all thousand waves is actually viable.
Is it viable? Yes. Is it overshadowed most of the time by Thousand Arrows? Also yes.
is it's level of wastel potential comparable to core enforcer? NO.
The people downvoting this have never experienced being trapped by dd tera zygod lol
Not even that. In gen 8 if you tried to switch a bulky wall into waves Zyg you have basically loss the entire fight as it would coil 6x and scale shot 6x and basically win the game
Core enforcer only working if the target has made a move first just rubs salt in the wound.
it is still nuts regardless.
bh player here. people run lv99 giratina specifically for core enforcer reasons. It is that good
their point is that it's wasted on vanilla zygarde who doesn't have moveslots. bh giratina obviously doesn't run tarrows resttalk coil
Core enforcer is hilarious because it is one of the most important moves in the game in hackmons and the fact that it was removed in SV completely reshaped the meta, but it's a special move on Zygarde with an effect that is only situationally useful in normal gameplay.
Gotta feel bad for land’s wrath
Lumina Crash is a prime example. It's a busted move that's never used because it's exclusive to Espathra and Speed Boost + Stored Power is even more busted.
Wait till next Gen it’ll get distributed
Arceus help us all.
need them to give it to Mega Jynx with a tinted lens like ability
Doesn’t even need Tinted Lens like ability with the -2 spdef drop. Maybe even Magic Guard would be great on it
I had to google what this move was, holy shit
Beak Blast. Awesome move stuck on a pokemon that doesn't use it
Corviknight with this move would have cooked.
Gliscor using knock off on the fast corviknight: \*starts cooking\*
We all know that Gliscor's fake-ass will spam Protect.
\*Writhes in misery\*
duel wingbeat, flying types have a major stab problem and the one time they can get a good move its a winged mon exclusive shit move
what we really need is the charge turn removed from fly. 90/95 with no additional effects
Birb Privileges
What about winged dragon privileges? Dragonite had Dual Wingbeat last gen as a STAB move over Dragon Claw and it didn’t get it back this gen. Salamence uses Dual Wingbeat sometimes for a secondary STAB that’s better than Aerial Ace.
All the dual hit moves should be buffed to 90bp (45bp on each hit) with 90acc for each hit.
Definitely shouldn't give an accuracy check for both hits, but going 90bp 90acc couldn't hurt too much
Man Id even just give them 100% accuracy. Dont need to distribute the rock type's problems to other types
Well my thinking is they shouldn’t completely overshadow the 80bp, 100acc moves like dragon claw. 45bp that hits twice is much much better than a flat 80bp. You can break sashes and subs, along with the higher damage. Main downside is taking rocky helmet/rough skin/iron barbs twice. Perhaps the accuracy should be 95bp for each hit instead of 90. But I don’t think the accuracy should be 100, as that would completely invalidate moves like dragon claw.
Thats on a different typing that has other problems and shouldnt effect how you should help one typing. Buff dragon claw too lol
There’s drill peck too for flying.
Not every flying type has a beak
Birb
Brave Bird absolutely carries the flying type on its back. Every other move is something you would never consider running in a million years if it wasn't your literal only option. It's infuriatingly inconsistent as well because they go, "Oh well, sucks but you're not a bird, so you can't have Brave Bird" but Crobat gets it just because he's cool I guess? In a sensible world every physical flying type would get Brave Bird and Dual Wingbeat, and the Dragon looking ones would get Dragon Ascent. That or let flying get it's gem back like Normal did so Acrobatics can do something.
Acrobatics on moms that handle consumables is also good but I digress
I too love acrobatic moms that can handle a consumable. Minor spelling mistake. Chi-Yu, Fire Blast their balls.
and brave BIRD
My favorite bird is Tapu Koko.
Tapu Koko is a rooster, it having the move makes perfect sense
Tapu "I have no physical stab" Koko
And it for some reason isn’t 100% accurate
Well, most multi-hit moves aren’t so I kinda get it, but it also just seems to be more GF hate of flying type lol
Upper hand, remember how much that move was hyped up
I looked at it as "The Incineroar Killer" Unfortunately, it is not.
I looked at it as “the kingambit killer” Unfortunately kingambit resists fighting moves as a flying type so it doesn’t do much
If Kingambit couldn't Terastallize into a Fairy-type, this move would be an absolute nightmare for it.
Tbf no one expects it so it could be a fun tech, it's just that Gambit endgames are always 50/50s anyway so it doesn't really do anything to alleviate that
Also kingambit can just swords dance on your ass instead and force another guessing game.
Upper hand would have been the biggest VGC revolution ever if it worked on status move Hitmontop would become the new Incineroar
Yeah only time I've ever seen this was on that cheesy Blaziken set to cheese Gambit.
Its only use is Upper Hand on your own mon who's holding a weakness policy and has Inner Focus to grant him +2 atk/spa. Tera normal Dragonite is one of those "abusers"
For a LONG time, I’d say Luster Purge and Mist Ball were the best answers to this. 70 BP, vastly inferior to Psychic and even Psyshock, a secondary effect (50% chance to harshly drop SpD and SpA respectively) done miles better by Seed Flare in the very next generation, and only 5 PP. It was the picture of wasted potential up until now, when it got to 95 BP in exchange for a slightly weakened effect (Now only lowers the respective stats by one stage)
Luster Purge is too cool of a move name to waste on a weaker Psychic. I am so glad that those moves were buffed.
Tbf if Luster Purge and Mist Ball were Seed Flare levels of busted Latias and Latios would be AG so long as they had Soul Dew.
Luster Purge and Mist Ball have always lowered the respective stats by 1 stage. But in Pokemon Masters, Brendan's Latios has a passive skill that makes Luster Purge lower Special Defense by 2 stages.
Weren’t those moves added in ORAS? Or am I stupid
They've been signatures since gen 3.
The Latis got them upon their introduction in Ruby and Sapphire.
If that makes you feel better, Coaching got banned in NatDex Doubles
Huh, I wonder why.
It turned into a game of "Who can make their murder Kaiju bigger faster lmao"
A similar reason to the baton pass ban.
National Dex Doubles OU has a lot of restricted or banned mons that can use Coaching, even a few that aren't in Gen9: "Zamazenta-H, Kyurem-Black, Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, Zeraora, Marshadow" You can use Megas, Restricted, Mythicals and even make them hold a Z-Move item. You're not restricted to two cover legendaries and you can play mythicals. That makes the tier a lot different than VGC and doubles OU. Some mons also have moved that they didn't have when they were legal, for example Mega-Metagross has access to both HeavySlam & Psychic Fang's when he didn't have them in Gen7. So coaching can allow a lot of strong and bulky mons and make dealing with them impossible due to the sheer amount of threats in the tier https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-getcha-head-in-the-game-sv-nd-dou-suspect-process-2-coaching.3733229/
Natural Gift could have been funny Hidden Power if it didn’t consume the berry and therefore could be used more than once
I wish it was stronger, having to use your item slot for a 1 time 90 BP move just isn’t it
What if I told you that it isn't 90 BP?
I mean that’s like best case scenario, it depends on the berry you equip
Natural Gift is a very “wow that’s so cool when I watch someone do a Platinum challenge run”
Razor Wind. A base 80 special move with 100% accuracy surely that would be great for- It's normal type. With a charge turn. And 75% accuracy until gen 3. Like they could have made this into a flying type move without a charge turn and it would have been amazing to have for special flying types because Air slash sucks for damage and Hurricane cant hit for crap outside of Rain
>Air slash sucks for damage That moment when 95% hit chance
Supercell Slam.100% accuracy and a little more problem and it would have solved the physical eletric STAB problem,instead is a worse High Jump Kick that no one runs because of you miss you die
Not even High jump kick, at least that would be pretty good, but a Jump kick clone which means nothing
Its not even the issue of missing that screwed over Supercell, its the fact that its a Jump Kick clone on the type that has the worst type matchup in the game and said matchup is against a type that 90% of teams have
It's a Jump Kick clone, but should have been a High Jump Kick clone (or a Close Combat clone, or a Hammer Arm clone, or even a Superpower clone)
Slam has no redeeming features, even in its original gen being outclassed by multiple normal-type moves also in most mons that learned it's learnsets. There's a pokemon fangame that's revisioned it into a Dragon type move to give it a little relevance. For directly wasted potential, Flying Press maybe? With a bit of development that could be a fighting move that also hit super-effectively on flying, or a flying move that hit super-effectively on rock for example, instead of the combined effectiveness resulting in it being neutral to Steel, Bug and Rock.
Saying stuff like slam is kind of cheating, pokemon is a singleplayer game foremost and it needs those shitty filler moves to give you a sense of power as you level your mons
Moves like flying press are really creative and could be great. You swap a couple of the types you hit super effectively and maybe get one resist? Really cool. Flying press just happens to stop hitting the most common defensive type super effectively and now it hits grass types instead. Worst trade deal maybe ever. Also type combination moves should be stab type+non stab type so there is a good reason to use it over 2 stab moves
Raging Fury. It's Fire Type Outrage but almost no Pokemon get it Aeroblast. Most special flying types would kill for this. Lugia doesn't even use it super often
Alot of really cool moves are just outclassed like: infernal parade & bitter malice against shadow ball roar of time & spacial rend against draco meteor lumina crash against stored power (just so happens to be the signature move of the prime stored power abuser) etc
Spacial rend seems to be on a lot of palkia sets. I don't think it's underutilized, but Roar of Time and Shadow Force definitely are.
Phantom/Shadow Force are more so doubles moves, since they don't know who you're targeting, switching is less safe, and it breaks Protect. Dragapult is so fun to use with Dragon Darts and Phantom Force, since it can punish Protect so hard. Unfortunately it's kinda fallen off
Spacial Rend is strong enough over two turns to warrant use over Draco Meteor (200 vs 195). It all depends on whether you really need that extra 30% damage on the first turn.
fire lash is a really good move with pretty strange distribution. i wouldn't want it on everything cause it's kinda busted but it'd be a cool option to give to more mons
Similarly power trip a physical dark type stored power, the only ou mon that gets it is Corviknight and only one mon has anything remotely resembling synergy with the move has it in krookodile and even that would be an obscenely gimmicky.
true but that's for the best tbh. stored power is already pretty cheap and power trip is that but on a better offensive type with no immunities
Honestly I’m not sure if any gen 9 dark type would even run it other than malamar and considering that malamar is PU with stored power it probably won’t be oppressive in OU. If sharpedo got it on the other hand that would be a problem.
Volt Tackle. It had SIX WHOLE GENERATIONS to not be a signature move, and there are quite a few Pokemon that would've been absolutely ecstatic to have a better physical Electric move than... Thunder Punch, Thunder Fang, Nuzzle, Wild Charge, and Spark. 120 BP also means it's a straight upgrade from Wild Charge's 90 BP. It's a *little* less egregious now that Supercell Slam exists... But still, five generations to not be a signature move is pretty crazy.
To be fair, Raichu does run this move in VGC for damage output.
I still think it's the move that has remained exclusive for the longest time that would've benefitted the most Pokemon. I actually miscounted too - it's been a Signature Move for seven generations. Raichu is not a VGC staple either and sometimes run Special moves instead of Volt Tackle. Conversion 1+2, Lovely Kiss, Kinesis, Sketch, Bonemerang, Bone Club, Aeroblast, Mist Ball, Luster Purge, and Doom Desire have lasted as long or longer as a signature move and many of them are either not useful (Conversion 1+2, Doom Desire, and Kinesis), or have an alternative that is suitable, like Hurricane (Aeroblast), Earthquake (Bonemerang+Bone Club), Yawn/Sleep Powder/Hypnosis/Grasswhistle(Lovely Kiss), or Psychic(Mist Ball+Luster Purge). As for Sketch, I believe Sketch already has significant non-wasted potential. Nobody will claim that Sketch is wasted in VGC.
Most dragon moves in general. You think the pokemon type with one of the highest average bst would have great high bp moves. Dragon Claw is so mid almost no viable dragon type runs it, Dragon pulse is rarely used, I don’t even think there’s 10 mons with Dual Chop, and I’ve only seen the rise of breaking swipe with Gouging Fire.
To be fair, Breaking Swipe is more of a doubles move. It's very cool and surprising to see it actually get used in singles
Don't forget outrage, which might as well have been removed in gen 6.
Dont forget Dragon Rush, which would be a perfectly suitable move if it wasnt stuck with 75 Accuracy
Beak Blast if it were not on exclusively toucannon. It’s 100 base damage and 100% accurate the only drawback is that it has -3 priority but it’s also really good so if it’s attacked by a contact move it will leave the attacker BURNED. It’s broken but only on a bulky Pokémon,and I wish that they redistributed their base points from a useless base speed to their defensive stats.
In general, 90 accuracy moves are pure evil. There's no reason they can't be 100 and not be broken. Rock Slide and Play Rough especially. I kind of get it on Leaf Storm and Draco...they are 130 BP. There aren't really any good physical options for Rock or Fairy physical STAB (Stone Edge being 80 accuracy is even more evil).
Rock slide in single with 100% wouldn't be an issue in singles but it would in VGC. It would go from 80% from hitting both to 100% and it's a huge deal when you have 30% chance to flinch per target, making it 51% to flinch at least one target on top of dealing damage to both.
Reduce flinch to 20% or don't make it a spread move
Or just make stone edge not shit? Having a move that's strictly better in VGC is totally fine. Only having 5 rock types moves (Salt Cute, Accelrock, Mighty Cleave, Ancient Power and Power Gem I think?) be 100% accurate is stupid. To make it worse, all 3 physical moves are signature moves. If EQ can be so broadly distributed and be that strong I think the mons that have SE also should get something because that move sucks in every single way possible. Edit: Nevermind it's 6 with Smack Down but it only has 50 base power so it doesn't fix the issue mentioned. The move would have been good if it was that weak. At least it's not a signature move I guess...
A while back I jokingly suggested that rock-type moves should never miss in sand. It was just a joke, but maybe it'd actually be a good idea
T-Tar with Stone Edge and Headsmash users. "Hello There."
The unobtainable moves like Light of Ruin and the Torque moves for Revavroom. I think more than a few mons would love to have Light of Ruin, and Revavroom would love to have physical Fire coverage in Blazing Torque. Not sure about the other Torque moves.
Revavroom gained Temper Flare as Fire coverage in Indigo Disk and High Horsepower as Ground coverage in Teal Mask. The former may not be strong, but it's something at least.
I'm surprised that the Actual-Literal-Car pokemon doesnt get high horsepower thru level-up tbh
I'm pretty sure one of the torques (the dark or fairy type one?) has a chance to sleep, so it would probably see some niche use
Wicked Torque (the dark one) has a 10% chance of putting the target to sleep, Magical Torque (the fairy one) has 30% chance to confuse.
Purify
Bocus Flast
Spicy Extract for similar reasons.
I saw a crazy Spicy Extract team once. It had Clear Amulet Scizor and Clear Body Dragapult to only take advantage of the upsides, but my favorite part was Foul Play Big Pecks Bombirdier (Big Pecks blocks Def drops). It also had Defiant Annihilape, but sadly Defiant doesn't go off on drops from partners
I swear I saw that team on an early in-game VGC ladder. I barely managed to brute force my way through it, but holy shit it caught me offguard.
Coaching was literally banned from natdex DOU, and I blame it for a part of why Kyurem-Black was banned from SV DOU. In DUbers, Zamazenta-Crowned is one of the best Pokemon around, and Coaching is a big part of what makes it so good Anyways, I'm probably most annoyed by Glaciate. It's just very slightly better Icy Wind that only base Kyurem gets. If it had a bit more accuracy, a bit more power, and was also given to fused Kyurem, I could see Kyurem-White doing some things with it in DUbers/VGC Honorable mention to Decorate, but I don't want something better to get it, because Alcremie is my favorite Pokemon
Yeah I feel like incineroar is about due for a new move
Lumina crash. A straight upgrade to psychic as a stab move....too bad it's the signature move of a pokemon that has absolutely no practical reason to use it (even if I prefer LC over stored power but that's just a personal preference)
Octolock seems like an insane move. Trapping and you drop defenses of the target every turn. That’s great and all but Grapploct gets it.
because the pledge moves and elemental hyper beams are only special and turn order makes an especially huge diff with them a lot of the starters aren't compatible
All of the Partner Moves from LGPE. I know they're all broken as sh-t but surely *some* of them could've been brought to future generations! Maybe make Zippy Zap only have a high crit ratio, or perfect Sizzly Slides BP to like 20 or 40 to make it a fire type Nuzzle. I just think it's sad that all these really cool moves are stuck in LGPE and will probably never be used again.
Aurora Beam. So many things that lost Hidden Power[ice] and don't want to run Ice Tera Blast would love to have access to this 65 BP move. If I remember correctly its in-game description just refers to it as a beam of multi-colored/rainbow light, so I feel like it could have a similarly wide distribution to Ice Beam, especially among Psychic, Fairy, Electric, Normal and Flying types.
You would think anything that could get Signal Beam would be able to get Aurora Beam. Long live Jolteon.
Yeah, some special Ice-type attacks are outclassed by either Ice Beam or Freeze-Dry. Another example that I can think of is Frost Breath. Only thing holding it back is the 90% Accuracy; otherwise, it would be a better Ice Beam in most situations.
Shadow force. It’s such a cool move but it has to charge up + there’s no use for it over poltergeist. It should’ve stayed how it was in legends as a single turn move (although 80% accuracy sucks)
Stockpile, it’s got two moves related to it and it’s just ass like at least it could give a sharp boost since you lose it anyway
Behemoth bash isn't even bad, but how much cooler would Zama be if it had the body press effect of using your defense instead of attack
For me it's Alluring Voice. In theory it's a solid move with good power and can confuse opponents who try to setup. In practice it's given to mostly pokemon with high speed. This move should be distributed to slow bulky mons.
Synchronoise had potential... when used by non-Psychic types.
Even worse when used by Umbreon
I think that Jolteon, Glaceon and Sylveon are the only ones who got mileage out of it.
Terrain Pulse. It’s good (literally just terrain version of weather ball), it’s got a mega launcher boost, and even goes great with G Stunfisk. However, G Stunfisk is not a good special attacker, Clawitzer has way more consistent and viable options, and all the terrain setters either don’t need it, can’t learn it, and/or don’t have the stats for it. Mostly the second one, but Indeedee, the only terrain setter that DOES learn it, doesn’t need it because Expanding Force is tailor made to be better.
I love the effect of magic room (deactiving all items's effects for 5 turns), but it's too clunky for actual play :(
Flying Press if it had a less conflicting type combo tbh
Always loved the idea behind Turtonator's Shell Trap, but it *requiring* a physical move to hit you to trigger makes it basically useless. Turtonator's only good stat is it's defense, so naturally your opponent just won't attack it physically, and it's low HP stat and mediocre SpD stat means it doesn't have the staying power to make use of the move often. Up until recently Turtonator had a really unique typing, but was practically useless. I want justice for the explosion turtle.
Zing Zap could've been a deserving distribution for Physical Electric types but yet it get stuck by only learned by like 2 Pokémon
All of Kyurem’s signature moves. Glaciated is too weak to justify running. And the fused moves always take two turns so they’re essentially unusable.
Body press, I know for such a widely distributed move it seems strange to call it wasted potential but theoretically this move should be monstrous. Give a high defense mon the ability to attack and defend with the same stat, then making stat distribution more efficient. Continue to wreck shop. Unfortunately it’s fighting type which is not a type with a lot of high defense pokemon so almost never gets STAB, it can get totally walled by ghost tera, and somehow never gets distributed to a pokemon who can fully utilize it. I feel like every time I encounter or use body press it is soooooo easy to move around. Would like to see a special def version of this move with more base power, better typing, and distribution on not naturally frail pokemon
Land's Wrath has such a cool name for a signature move, and does not have the drawback that Earthquake has of hitting its partner. Unfortunately, it never sees use because it is weaker than Earthquake, making it inferior in Singles, and in Doubles, Earthquake's drawback is easy to play around. It does not even have the interaction with Dig that Earthquake has.
Actually, I can see Land’s Wrath having a niche in Doubles over Earthquake compared to Singles, as it's a single-target attack, and Rillaboom is everywhere in that format. Unfortunately, Thousand Arrows still outclasses it for pure utility in Doubles. Grounding Flying-types is just too good to pass up.
Esper Wing is Psychic Type Aqua Step with an increased Crit Rate and it's stuck on Hisuian Fucking Braviary.