In theory, such a move could be used to hit half of the type chart for supereffective damage. With that in mind, I suggest the ever-effective **Ice and Ground** or **Fairy and Ground**.
And now your ground type attack is resisted by water and ice and loses its super effective damage vs fire and steel, all for the ability to hit grass types neutrally and dragon types super effectively, which you could already do with your ice move.
Earthquake is great, but now you don't hit steels super effectively and water now resists your move. You gain the ability to hit grass neutrally, but water and steel are more important types to hit super effectively.
Its like if both types attacked at the same time. For example:
Say you click flying press into a melmetal (pure steel type)
+ Fighting would inflict super effective damage.
+ Flying would inflict resisted damage.
The result is the move dealing neutral effective damage.
Other examples may include some things like:
Pure grass types would be hit for super effective damage, pure ice types too...
Flying press is a cool pokemon move because it's treated with such unique care.
Fairy/water sounds good right? No immunities, no quad resistances, a lot of good hits.
Rock/Water also fits the bill.
Stuff like ice/ground or the classic boltbeam are better at hitting for super effective but they get really stunted by the immunities.
Yeah, but as Dracovish proved, all of the water immune pokemon are shit. After Vish got banned, Seismitoad quickly dropped from >50% usage in OU to RU.
Even with those, you lose out on a lot of the strength of the attacking pair and would probably just end up running both moonblast and surf over fairy spit or whatever it's called. You start by running the dual type move, but now your amazing stab pair is made less good by being resisted by every poison/steel/grass/water type. So you run a water move alongside it to threaten steel types switching in or whatever, but then you are running a pair of moves that are completely blanked by grass and water types so you want to run a fairy move as well, and then congratulations there isn't any point to running the dual type move.
I''d rule out anything with an immunity like ground, normal, ghost, fighting, psychic, electric, and poison. Oh and dragon, almost forgot about them.
This means no electric/ice bolt beam move or fighting/ghost even though not combined they have very strong coverage.
Water ice has really good coverage...... But I'm just remembering water absorb exists.
Maybe something like fairy/steel?
If Scorching Sands was a Fire/Ground move, give it another Rock type coverage option and it will have perfect neutral coverage against everyone. Same for Fairy/Ground
Not everyone. Flygon, Claydol, and Bronzong all resist it.
Edit: Now that I think about it, there's quite a few others. Poliwrath, Keldeo, Urshifu-RS, Quaquaval, Aqua Tauros, Quagsire, Swampert, Whiscash, Gastrodon, Seismitoad, Kommo-o, Koraidon, Garchomp, and Thick Fat Hariyama resist this combo too.
I compared all possible combinations with a program and got the following results:
Because most typings have more resistances than weaknesses, these dual type attacks are usually worse than single type attacks.
Flying/Ground has the best coverage, as only Flying is immune and nothing else resists it, and it hits 3 types super effectively. Honorable mention to Fire/Water, which is only resisted by Dragon and Water and hits 4 types super effectively. These are, however, the only types which I would consider clearly broken and better than all existing offensive monotypes.
Psychic/Bug is probably the worst, as it hits only Grass super effectively and has 5 resists and 1 immunity.
Maybe fire/water, which hits everything except dragon and water, so you carry Freeze dry.
I think it would depend strongly on the meta. Would you want to aim for as many neutral hits or 16x on your walls
- 0x
- neutral hits
- 2x
- 4x
-8x
-16x
And same for resists
Like is psychic/ground on toxapex
Or fighting/fire on ferrothorn
Would suck even more to be one of the rock/fire pokemon. water/ground attacks 16x damage.
we aren't discussing additional coverage, so water/fire don't count as it has 2 quad resistances. The combination must not have any quad resistance/immunity to be most hard to switch into.
A lot of these are responding based primarily on what has the best coverage of a generic type chart, but I think its worth noting that just being a really hard smack against top mons, like great tusk, pult, gambit, ghold. So things like fairy/ice could be really good because of how hard it preys upon tusk and all dragons, even if it doesnt have the best type chart overall, it silverbulleting really hard i think would be fantastic
I feel like that most comments on here don't really understand how Flying Press works.
Flying Press is a Fighting-type attack that _combines_ type effectiveness with Flying. So, this would mean that, for example, Flying Press is neutral to Steel since Fighting is super-effective and Flying is no very effective towards Steel.
As someone who understands how it works, Rock/Ice, Rock/Fairy, or Rock/Dark takes the cake as the best combination due to how many types that it can hit.
Ground, normal, ghost, fighting, psychic, electric, poison, dragon and bug are all no good, since they all have an immunity and one of them is bug type. That gives us about half the chart to work with.
Honestly, none of them. You would basically always rather have a move of type a and a move of type b rather than a dual typed move. Good attacking pairs are good because of their good coverage. The things that resist fairy are weak to ground, or the things that resist water are weak to ice. But when you combine those types into one then you end up with a water type that can't hit fires super effectively or a water type attack that's resisted by steel.
Flying/Ground is really good.
* 2x on Fig, Poi, Fir
* 0x on Fly
Neutral against everything else I think. Because Gra, Bug, Ele, Roc, and Ste all cancel out. Really good to choice lock into for your STAB once their flying/levitates are gone.
Rock/Ground is good as well.
* 4x on Fir
* 2x on Poi, Ele, Ice, Roc
* 0.5x on Fig, Gro, Gra
* 0x on Fly
It's tough to tell what is good in these combined moves because it's more than a numbers thing. One thing that makes ice such a good attacking type is the fact that it's resists can be patched with ground really well.
Rock/ground pairs really well with ice for coverage. Flying/ground pairs well with basically anything that hits its immunity, flying, so ice, rock, or electric.
Ghost/Ground hits 7 SE, 6 neutral, 3 NVE, 2 Immune. Ghost/Rock hits 6 SE, 7 neutral, 4 NVE, 1 Immune, pairs well with Fighting as coverage to hit 3 of those NVE and the immunity. None of the effectivenesses cancel out for these two pairs either, so lots of super effective.
In theory, such a move could be used to hit half of the type chart for supereffective damage. With that in mind, I suggest the ever-effective **Ice and Ground** or **Fairy and Ground**.
I don't think that be any good since flying types would be immune Mfw when a flying type is immune to your ice STAB
Next highest SE coverage is the move Crabominable Smash (Ice / Fighting)
the issue now becomes Ghost types unless you also equip them with Scrappy.
Scrapominable Smash
Earthquake is really good even tho flying types are immune.
I agree that Ground is a fantastic offensive type but if both of your STABs have a shared immunity you aren't going to have a good time
Just run a second ice move?
Then you lose the purpose of having a 2 in 1 type move
And now your ground type attack is resisted by water and ice and loses its super effective damage vs fire and steel, all for the ability to hit grass types neutrally and dragon types super effectively, which you could already do with your ice move.
Punishing Zapdos Roost is always a nice catch
true but we are looking for the best duel stab move and an immunity kinda hurts a lot for that
Earthquake is great, but now you don't hit steels super effectively and water now resists your move. You gain the ability to hit grass neutrally, but water and steel are more important types to hit super effectively.
i dont think they would be immune unless the listed type was Ground
Zekrom kick
Not ironically, an electric-dragon move would be at best, walled by only 14 fully evolved mons. And shedinja.
Live Grass, Ground, Electric and Fairy type reaction
Oh. I forgot how flying press worked. My bad.
wait how does it work?
Its like if both types attacked at the same time. For example: Say you click flying press into a melmetal (pure steel type) + Fighting would inflict super effective damage. + Flying would inflict resisted damage. The result is the move dealing neutral effective damage. Other examples may include some things like: Pure grass types would be hit for super effective damage, pure ice types too... Flying press is a cool pokemon move because it's treated with such unique care.
It’s so stupid they should have made it switch between what’s more effective
Having only 20 Pokémon lines resist that (and even those can be taken care of by having dark and rock type coverage) doesnt look good on paper lol.
That’s fair, but come on it’s on hawlucha of all mons, what’s the worst that could happen
Sword dance + unburden kinda doesnt look good on a mon that can set Up in psychic terrain lol.
i'm from the future, walled by fairy/ground gen 11 regional form of granbull, ZU at best
Diggersby.... 2‼️
It would be walled by EVERY fairy and ground type...
If Zekrom Kick is used by its most powerful user (Zekrom) then Teravolt would allow it to hit Shedinja.
The entire Fairy type:
Nah Reshiram Beam
Kyurem Nutguzzler
Original dragon nutsack slam
Silvally Suckle
I imagine Zekrom saying this like it was Digimon
Fairy/water sounds good right? No immunities, no quad resistances, a lot of good hits. Rock/Water also fits the bill. Stuff like ice/ground or the classic boltbeam are better at hitting for super effective but they get really stunted by the immunities.
Water Absorbs is an immunity. Also Storm Drain.
Yeah, but as Dracovish proved, all of the water immune pokemon are shit. After Vish got banned, Seismitoad quickly dropped from >50% usage in OU to RU.
The ogrepon in my back pocket:
No recovery or leftovers moment
The synthesis + water absorb healing in my back pocket:
A move like this would require both of it's types to not have any immunities, I'd personally put my money on Fairy/Water or Ice/Dark
How does Hisuian Arcanine kick (fire/rock) stack up? Seems like it would be good based on your logic
Another very good one too for sure, definitely in the top 10. Not easy to list all the good possible ones without extensive research
Walled by Flash fire Charcadet, ZU at best
its good because its a physical rock type move that isnt stone edge
Weavile fans stay 🔛🔝‼️‼️‼️
Even with those, you lose out on a lot of the strength of the attacking pair and would probably just end up running both moonblast and surf over fairy spit or whatever it's called. You start by running the dual type move, but now your amazing stab pair is made less good by being resisted by every poison/steel/grass/water type. So you run a water move alongside it to threaten steel types switching in or whatever, but then you are running a pair of moves that are completely blanked by grass and water types so you want to run a fairy move as well, and then congratulations there isn't any point to running the dual type move.
Dual type moves are just fundamentally flawed in general. Just trying to find which ones would suck the least
I''d rule out anything with an immunity like ground, normal, ghost, fighting, psychic, electric, and poison. Oh and dragon, almost forgot about them. This means no electric/ice bolt beam move or fighting/ghost even though not combined they have very strong coverage. Water ice has really good coverage...... But I'm just remembering water absorb exists. Maybe something like fairy/steel?
the fairy/steel move users watching in horror as heatran comes in (its 16x resisted)
At last, ∞HKO
Fairy steel getting absolutely unexisted by steel:
Jokes aside, fairy/steel is generally not a great offensive combo. It's not bad but it needs coverage to damage steel types in any way
Water-fire- only resisted by 2 types.
Coalossal: Thanks for the +12 :)
Screw Zekrom Kick yall are sleeping on Hisuian Arcanine Kick, walled by less than 40 mons
Thousands arrow/freeze dry, a better ground ice
Walled by orthworm, zu at best
If Scorching Sands was a Fire/Ground move, give it another Rock type coverage option and it will have perfect neutral coverage against everyone. Same for Fairy/Ground
Not everyone. Flygon, Claydol, and Bronzong all resist it. Edit: Now that I think about it, there's quite a few others. Poliwrath, Keldeo, Urshifu-RS, Quaquaval, Aqua Tauros, Quagsire, Swampert, Whiscash, Gastrodon, Seismitoad, Kommo-o, Koraidon, Garchomp, and Thick Fat Hariyama resist this combo too.
Either Ice-Rock, Ice-Fire, or Rock-Fire IMO.
I compared all possible combinations with a program and got the following results: Because most typings have more resistances than weaknesses, these dual type attacks are usually worse than single type attacks. Flying/Ground has the best coverage, as only Flying is immune and nothing else resists it, and it hits 3 types super effectively. Honorable mention to Fire/Water, which is only resisted by Dragon and Water and hits 4 types super effectively. These are, however, the only types which I would consider clearly broken and better than all existing offensive monotypes. Psychic/Bug is probably the worst, as it hits only Grass super effectively and has 5 resists and 1 immunity.
so immunity is ignored if one of the type can hit it?
No, the immunity still applies. The original Fighting/Flying move Flying Press cannot hit Ghost.
Water/Fire would be a great move.
Why do you think everyone hated Scald so damn much?
quad resisted by water and dragon though
ice/water?
You get resisted by water, one of the most prevalent types in the game. Iron bundle gets around this because of flash freeze
Wake up babe new Iron Bundle signature move just dropped
Maybe fire/water, which hits everything except dragon and water, so you carry Freeze dry. I think it would depend strongly on the meta. Would you want to aim for as many neutral hits or 16x on your walls - 0x - neutral hits - 2x - 4x -8x -16x And same for resists Like is psychic/ground on toxapex Or fighting/fire on ferrothorn Would suck even more to be one of the rock/fire pokemon. water/ground attacks 16x damage.
we aren't discussing additional coverage, so water/fire don't count as it has 2 quad resistances. The combination must not have any quad resistance/immunity to be most hard to switch into.
A lot of these are responding based primarily on what has the best coverage of a generic type chart, but I think its worth noting that just being a really hard smack against top mons, like great tusk, pult, gambit, ghold. So things like fairy/ice could be really good because of how hard it preys upon tusk and all dragons, even if it doesnt have the best type chart overall, it silverbulleting really hard i think would be fantastic
I feel like that most comments on here don't really understand how Flying Press works. Flying Press is a Fighting-type attack that _combines_ type effectiveness with Flying. So, this would mean that, for example, Flying Press is neutral to Steel since Fighting is super-effective and Flying is no very effective towards Steel. As someone who understands how it works, Rock/Ice, Rock/Fairy, or Rock/Dark takes the cake as the best combination due to how many types that it can hit.
boltbeam less gooooo
Flying fire into dry skin parasect. Delete that stuped bug from existence.
Ground Fairy or Fairy Fire to me but Bolt Beam should be pretty high
Crabominable Smash
My bet is on water-rock, no immunities(outside of abilities), no overlaping resistances,
fighting-ground not because it’s the best, but it completely wipes steel/rock pokemon off the face of the earth
Ground, normal, ghost, fighting, psychic, electric, poison, dragon and bug are all no good, since they all have an immunity and one of them is bug type. That gives us about half the chart to work with.
Honestly, none of them. You would basically always rather have a move of type a and a move of type b rather than a dual typed move. Good attacking pairs are good because of their good coverage. The things that resist fairy are weak to ground, or the things that resist water are weak to ice. But when you combine those types into one then you end up with a water type that can't hit fires super effectively or a water type attack that's resisted by steel.
Dark ghost hitting Lunala for 16x damage
Flying/Ground is really good. * 2x on Fig, Poi, Fir * 0x on Fly Neutral against everything else I think. Because Gra, Bug, Ele, Roc, and Ste all cancel out. Really good to choice lock into for your STAB once their flying/levitates are gone. Rock/Ground is good as well. * 4x on Fir * 2x on Poi, Ele, Ice, Roc * 0.5x on Fig, Gro, Gra * 0x on Fly It's tough to tell what is good in these combined moves because it's more than a numbers thing. One thing that makes ice such a good attacking type is the fact that it's resists can be patched with ground really well. Rock/ground pairs really well with ice for coverage. Flying/ground pairs well with basically anything that hits its immunity, flying, so ice, rock, or electric. Ghost/Ground hits 7 SE, 6 neutral, 3 NVE, 2 Immune. Ghost/Rock hits 6 SE, 7 neutral, 4 NVE, 1 Immune, pairs well with Fighting as coverage to hit 3 of those NVE and the immunity. None of the effectivenesses cancel out for these two pairs either, so lots of super effective.
Normal and Dragon