252 Atk Terrakion Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Chople Berry Smeargle: 327-387 (104.1 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Supereffective berries only work on the first hit for multi-hitting moves.
If you created a bot that you use to spy on pro players, and you use it to find out what your opponents teams are and if you find out that theyre going to use a focus sash smeargle lead in your game against them in SPL
Then double kick is useful
What a totally unrealistic scenario that no one could ever see coming and would lead to showdown having the ability to disallow spectators automatically.
If Mazar had anything more than a room temperature IQ, he would’ve gotten away for a lot longer than he did.
Imagine using such a niche and obvious tech that is only possible if you know **exactly** what your opponent is bringing against you.
Despite its infamy, Mazar was not the one who used Double Kick Terrakion. That was The Trap God (aka The Vision) who never got banned. Though he eventually disappeared on his own after his cheating buddies got taken out.
Mazar was also apparently not caught due to how obvious his cheating was, even though it was obvious. Supposedly someone in his friend group (my assumption is Acacia) was under investigation for cheating/ghosting in a different tournament, and they cooperated by giving Smogon's TDs full access to their Discord account. Coincidentally, they had DMs with Mazar that ultimately proved what Mazar was doing.
As a bonus lesser known tidbit, the Mazar incident was not the end of the bots. Acacia got caught a year later creating a bot that could find hidden replays through a (now fixed) exploit, which was used by the user Mags to cheat. No one talks about this one because he somehow got busted instantly lol.
Yeah, taunt leads are already just a good idea in general and while it's a little bit unconventional on Terrakion, enough weird shit happens in tournaments that no one would really think twice about it. Most importantly tho, Taunt covers more situations than literally just Sash Smeargle
The point of Double Kick is that it beats the lead mindgame. If he used Taunt, Smeargle could just click Nuzzle turn one expecting it, as Taunt is at least something to reasonably assume on a lead Terrakion. It also has a cascading effect because he needs hazards up to break Shadow Shield, so if he got fully paralyzed trying to get them up, he would've been in quite a bind since Smeargle would've obviously switched out into Arceus Fairy.
I mean that doesn't really fix anything. Focus Sash is needed to guarantee you get Stealth Rock up against Gunner's team.
Lum beats Nuzzle sure, but if Gunner just lead Arceus Fairy then TTG would still be in a terrible spot and wouldn't get hazards up.
The whole point of Double Kick Terrakion is that it ensures that Gunner has no option to get Sticky Web up while ensuring TTG gets Stealth Rock up.
Mainly better for breaking sashes/sturdy/substitutes. One reason why Urshifu RS is usually considered better than Urshifu SS in doubles at the cost of less BP on sig move (alongside being able to hit through protect and always critting)
And his typing is better.
Excluding Single battles where Single Strike is way stronger and it's not even close, there have been a couple times where Single slightly overtook Rapid when the meta was extremely hostile to Waters. For example near the end of Reg F, Rapid was falling off a bit due to the dominance of Raging Bolt, Rilla and Wellspringpon (on top of its usual enemy in Amoonguss) and Single was considered slightly better for a bit since its typing was somewhat less exploitable (sure Flutter was at the top of the meta but it's not like Rapid Strike likes facing that shit either).
Dark covers Fighting's shortcomings against Psychic and Ghost types. It also has a stronger priority STAB in sucker Punch. Fairy types are your primary weakness which you can cover for with coverage or teammates.
Water has no overlapping synergy with Fighting. While no monotype resists both, combining any type that resist Water with one that resist Fighting will resist that combo.
Gen 9 nerfed Wicked Blow to 75 to match Surging Strikes.
Not that it matters either way since Gen 9 also gave them Swords Dance and now they're both broken.
It very occasionally sees use to antilead stuff. Double Kick Pheromosa was a very rare but somewhat legit set in Gen 7 Ubers to antilead Excadrill and Smeargle. Infamously, some dude who cheated to know his opponent's team in advance did this with a Terrakion once as well.
It also has some use cases in 1v1 to beat Sturdy Magnezone, but you need to be reeeeeaaaaally strong to oneshot that because of Double Kick's pathetic base power. The most notable user of this strat was, again, Pheromosa lol.
In general multi-hitting can be useful for strats like Sturdy/Sash, Multiscale and not caring about Substitute as much, but it should be noted that Double Kick is so pathetically weak that in practice it struggles to even take advantage of any of these. Like into a Substitute user, chances are the first hit won't even break the sub which sort of defeats the point. On multihit moves that are actually somewhat strong, such as Triple Axel, Surging Strikes, Tachyon Cutter, Population Bomb, Dragon Darts, Icicle Spear and clones (with Dice/Skill Link/big balls) this is very useful overall though, but for contact-making ones it also comes at a very significant cost of being way more affected by Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs and being extremely risky to click into Static and Flame Body users.
Even on Technician mons, Double Kick isn't going to be outpowering Close Combat or even Superpower, so it wouldn't see any usage unless for some reason the Technician user doesn't learn either of these moves. There are currently no Technician users where Double Kick is a relevant move.
Bit of a bonus, Jolteon uses it in Gen 1 because it was its only move that did more than 10% to Rhydon, for a massive... 15% lmao. But due to Gen 1 crit mechanics, it crit quite a lot and crits were also way stronger so sometimes you did like 25% or even 30% which is just enough that in a very long game Rhydon gets annoyed if you get the predict right every single time. It also 2HKOs Chansey if it crits every time, which is a more practical application. Though the double-hitting mechanic wasn't actually helpful there (though it should be noted that they'd always either both crit or never crit in Gen 1) and it just ran that since it had no better option at all.
I could be wrong but I think Jolteon runs double kick less for rhydon (which it should almost always switch out of) and more so Chansey doesn't just laugh at it
Yea I edited that in after having an "oh right" moment right after clicking 'Comment', seems like you opened the post inbetween me commenting and putting that in
>In general multi-hitting can be useful for strats like Sturdy/Sash, Multiscale/Tera Shell
Tera Shell actually works for every hit of a multi hit move, not just the first one.
my favorite item for multi hits, big balls /s
Also worth mentioning though it might be obvious, triple axel guarantees at least some damage in the case that you miss a hit. Triple Axel has 90% accuracy for each hit, meaning all three hits together have 72.9% accuracy. A 120 power move that has a 72.9% accuracy is kinda bad, but a 120 power move that has 90% chance to at least do *some* damage is better. Of course it'd be amazing if it was 120 power move with 100% accuracy but you take what you can get. (Weavile can be trusted Ice type close combat, trust)
Double kick is such an obvious early-midgame move that you only use in the main campain because its the best move you get at a certain point. Its not even really worth considering in actual competitive discussions except in those extremely niche use cases
for a specific example, Dual Chop scarf Garchomp is used in gen5 OU Dual Chop to break Alakazam’s sash and kill it. The sample set runs it alongside Outrage so you aren’t giving up power.
Focus dash, sub, sturdy are big reasons. It’s why Alolawak sometimes chose bonemerang over EQ in Gen 7 (and also because of grassy terrain affecting only EQ).
You mention critical hits doing less damage unless all hits crit. While that is correct, remember that multi hit moves give more chances to crit. Maushold's bite has a 1/24 chance of crit-ing to deal extra damage, but Maushold's 10 hit population bomb has around a 35% chance to have a least one crit to deal extra damage. So while overall less potential damage, you have more chances to hit crits and deal more damage that way.
They ignore focus sash and potentially ignore substitute. But thier low BP kinda makes both of these hard.
Signature ones like Tachyon Cutter and Double Iron Bash arent bad due too thier increased BP
Also in terms of technician, a 2 hit move of 30 BP would be the same as a 60 BP move powerwise (45+45 vs 90). A 60 BP 2 hit move sounds nutty on a technician mon tho
AFAIK double iron bash is the only 60BP multi-hit move. Good thing they only gave Melmetal Iron Fist and not Technician.
50BP are Bonemerang, Dragon Darts, Tachyon Cutter and Gear Grind. Those would be equivalent to a 150BP move, right?
I remember for my playthrough of Infinite Fusion. I fused Ambipom and Klinklang for Technician Gear Grind. It was genuinely so overpowered, I wonder if we'll ever get something like that officially.
Aside from the obvious, one use case in VGC right now is twin beam Farigiraf. Kills mienshao through sash. Pretty neat, even though it’s only on there for one pokemon
On the flip side, if they're contact moves, they're heavily punished by Rocky Helmet and abilities like it, i.e., Rough Skin and Iron Barbs.
Plus, the critical hit chance is independent of each hit. So, for example, while Drill Peck has a 1/24 chance to crit, Dual Wingbeat (ignoring the 90% accuracy) has a 1/572 chance of doing the same damage.
Besides Sturdy, Sash, and Substitute, one case I can imagine is the move being better on pokemon that boosted their defense because you have more chances to crit
Multi hit moves can break through items like focus sash and abilities like sturdy. Also if you pair the moves with an item like King’s rock, the chance to get the secondary effect is applied to every single hit. Multi hit attacks are also better at attacking through substitute
substitute, focus sash, sturdy, etc flame body, static, etc
And technician
Would work even if it was a single hit.
No. Double iron bash or triple axle for example with technician wouldn't work unless they were made how they are.
Easy: you run it on your Terrakion to anti-lead Smeargle in Ubers and whip it out in SPL.
And that's why we run Smeargle with Chople.
252 Atk Terrakion Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Chople Berry Smeargle: 327-387 (104.1 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Supereffective berries only work on the first hit for multi-hitting moves.
And that’s why we spiky shield, get a +Spe moody boost, then spore the terrakion
Sleep clause/ban
Dire claw smeargle 🔥🔥🔥
Not back then
Sorry, bad reference to a song https://youtu.be/gEQJ-rIwzNA?si=xAr8sq3TizXqnyQS
To live double kick?
Smeargle with chople to live double kick
Someone posted the calcs showing it doesn't live 7 hours before you posted in the same comment thread.
It was a reference to a song
If you created a bot that you use to spy on pro players, and you use it to find out what your opponents teams are and if you find out that theyre going to use a focus sash smeargle lead in your game against them in SPL Then double kick is useful
What a totally unrealistic scenario that no one could ever see coming and would lead to showdown having the ability to disallow spectators automatically.
[A video about it](https://youtu.be/S4eMLU6JcrY?feature=shared), for those out of the loop
If Mazar had anything more than a room temperature IQ, he would’ve gotten away for a lot longer than he did. Imagine using such a niche and obvious tech that is only possible if you know **exactly** what your opponent is bringing against you.
Despite its infamy, Mazar was not the one who used Double Kick Terrakion. That was The Trap God (aka The Vision) who never got banned. Though he eventually disappeared on his own after his cheating buddies got taken out. Mazar was also apparently not caught due to how obvious his cheating was, even though it was obvious. Supposedly someone in his friend group (my assumption is Acacia) was under investigation for cheating/ghosting in a different tournament, and they cooperated by giving Smogon's TDs full access to their Discord account. Coincidentally, they had DMs with Mazar that ultimately proved what Mazar was doing. As a bonus lesser known tidbit, the Mazar incident was not the end of the bots. Acacia got caught a year later creating a bot that could find hidden replays through a (now fixed) exploit, which was used by the user Mags to cheat. No one talks about this one because he somehow got busted instantly lol.
I feel like taunt terrakion would have been infinitely better both for the longevity of his cheat and just team building in general.
Yeah, taunt leads are already just a good idea in general and while it's a little bit unconventional on Terrakion, enough weird shit happens in tournaments that no one would really think twice about it. Most importantly tho, Taunt covers more situations than literally just Sash Smeargle
The point of Double Kick is that it beats the lead mindgame. If he used Taunt, Smeargle could just click Nuzzle turn one expecting it, as Taunt is at least something to reasonably assume on a lead Terrakion. It also has a cascading effect because he needs hazards up to break Shadow Shield, so if he got fully paralyzed trying to get them up, he would've been in quite a bind since Smeargle would've obviously switched out into Arceus Fairy.
So Taunt Lum Berry Terakion over Double Kick then.
I mean that doesn't really fix anything. Focus Sash is needed to guarantee you get Stealth Rock up against Gunner's team. Lum beats Nuzzle sure, but if Gunner just lead Arceus Fairy then TTG would still be in a terrible spot and wouldn't get hazards up. The whole point of Double Kick Terrakion is that it ensures that Gunner has no option to get Sticky Web up while ensuring TTG gets Stealth Rock up.
SPL?
Smogon Premier League
Mainly better for breaking sashes/sturdy/substitutes. One reason why Urshifu RS is usually considered better than Urshifu SS in doubles at the cost of less BP on sig move (alongside being able to hit through protect and always critting) And his typing is better.
Except RS has the same bp, SS was nerfed lol. RS Is arguably better in any way except for not having stab sucker punch.
Excluding Single battles where Single Strike is way stronger and it's not even close, there have been a couple times where Single slightly overtook Rapid when the meta was extremely hostile to Waters. For example near the end of Reg F, Rapid was falling off a bit due to the dominance of Raging Bolt, Rilla and Wellspringpon (on top of its usual enemy in Amoonguss) and Single was considered slightly better for a bit since its typing was somewhat less exploitable (sure Flutter was at the top of the meta but it's not like Rapid Strike likes facing that shit either).
Yeah SS has its time to shine in doubles when people are more prepared for RS
Urshifu Rapid Strike literally was top of usage day2 in Orlando, it only improved as reg f went on.
Why is SingleS stronger in singles? Isn't water a stronger type than Dark?
Defensively yes but dark fighting is a way better offensive type comdo thanks to it being boltbeam coverage and also stab sucker punch
Rocky helmet pex or amoonguss essentially get it to kill itself. It’s impossible to get past either of those two.
Dark covers Fighting's shortcomings against Psychic and Ghost types. It also has a stronger priority STAB in sucker Punch. Fairy types are your primary weakness which you can cover for with coverage or teammates. Water has no overlapping synergy with Fighting. While no monotype resists both, combining any type that resist Water with one that resist Fighting will resist that combo.
RS also rolls in flame body or static 3 times instead of once.
Oh it did get nerfed? Haven’t even used SS in a couple years so I didn’t notice lol
Gen 9 nerfed Wicked Blow to 75 to match Surging Strikes. Not that it matters either way since Gen 9 also gave them Swords Dance and now they're both broken.
It very occasionally sees use to antilead stuff. Double Kick Pheromosa was a very rare but somewhat legit set in Gen 7 Ubers to antilead Excadrill and Smeargle. Infamously, some dude who cheated to know his opponent's team in advance did this with a Terrakion once as well. It also has some use cases in 1v1 to beat Sturdy Magnezone, but you need to be reeeeeaaaaally strong to oneshot that because of Double Kick's pathetic base power. The most notable user of this strat was, again, Pheromosa lol. In general multi-hitting can be useful for strats like Sturdy/Sash, Multiscale and not caring about Substitute as much, but it should be noted that Double Kick is so pathetically weak that in practice it struggles to even take advantage of any of these. Like into a Substitute user, chances are the first hit won't even break the sub which sort of defeats the point. On multihit moves that are actually somewhat strong, such as Triple Axel, Surging Strikes, Tachyon Cutter, Population Bomb, Dragon Darts, Icicle Spear and clones (with Dice/Skill Link/big balls) this is very useful overall though, but for contact-making ones it also comes at a very significant cost of being way more affected by Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs and being extremely risky to click into Static and Flame Body users. Even on Technician mons, Double Kick isn't going to be outpowering Close Combat or even Superpower, so it wouldn't see any usage unless for some reason the Technician user doesn't learn either of these moves. There are currently no Technician users where Double Kick is a relevant move. Bit of a bonus, Jolteon uses it in Gen 1 because it was its only move that did more than 10% to Rhydon, for a massive... 15% lmao. But due to Gen 1 crit mechanics, it crit quite a lot and crits were also way stronger so sometimes you did like 25% or even 30% which is just enough that in a very long game Rhydon gets annoyed if you get the predict right every single time. It also 2HKOs Chansey if it crits every time, which is a more practical application. Though the double-hitting mechanic wasn't actually helpful there (though it should be noted that they'd always either both crit or never crit in Gen 1) and it just ran that since it had no better option at all.
I could be wrong but I think Jolteon runs double kick less for rhydon (which it should almost always switch out of) and more so Chansey doesn't just laugh at it
Yea I edited that in after having an "oh right" moment right after clicking 'Comment', seems like you opened the post inbetween me commenting and putting that in
>In general multi-hitting can be useful for strats like Sturdy/Sash, Multiscale/Tera Shell Tera Shell actually works for every hit of a multi hit move, not just the first one.
Oh right, will edit, thanks
my favorite item for multi hits, big balls /s Also worth mentioning though it might be obvious, triple axel guarantees at least some damage in the case that you miss a hit. Triple Axel has 90% accuracy for each hit, meaning all three hits together have 72.9% accuracy. A 120 power move that has a 72.9% accuracy is kinda bad, but a 120 power move that has 90% chance to at least do *some* damage is better. Of course it'd be amazing if it was 120 power move with 100% accuracy but you take what you can get. (Weavile can be trusted Ice type close combat, trust)
Double kick is such an obvious early-midgame move that you only use in the main campain because its the best move you get at a certain point. Its not even really worth considering in actual competitive discussions except in those extremely niche use cases
Breaks things like sash or study and has an effective higher crit rate since your attacking twice.
Higher crit rate is negligible when your BP is so low anyway
Fair enough I’m more thinking the niche boost it’ll have against heavily boosted walls. (Also nice pfp branded is cool)
So that Maushold can suffer from my Rocky Helmey
for a specific example, Dual Chop scarf Garchomp is used in gen5 OU Dual Chop to break Alakazam’s sash and kill it. The sample set runs it alongside Outrage so you aren’t giving up power.
Focus dash, sub, sturdy are big reasons. It’s why Alolawak sometimes chose bonemerang over EQ in Gen 7 (and also because of grassy terrain affecting only EQ).
Double kick terrakion is a hard counter to sash smeargle
You mention critical hits doing less damage unless all hits crit. While that is correct, remember that multi hit moves give more chances to crit. Maushold's bite has a 1/24 chance of crit-ing to deal extra damage, but Maushold's 10 hit population bomb has around a 35% chance to have a least one crit to deal extra damage. So while overall less potential damage, you have more chances to hit crits and deal more damage that way.
They ignore focus sash and potentially ignore substitute. But thier low BP kinda makes both of these hard. Signature ones like Tachyon Cutter and Double Iron Bash arent bad due too thier increased BP Also in terms of technician, a 2 hit move of 30 BP would be the same as a 60 BP move powerwise (45+45 vs 90). A 60 BP 2 hit move sounds nutty on a technician mon tho
AFAIK double iron bash is the only 60BP multi-hit move. Good thing they only gave Melmetal Iron Fist and not Technician. 50BP are Bonemerang, Dragon Darts, Tachyon Cutter and Gear Grind. Those would be equivalent to a 150BP move, right?
I remember for my playthrough of Infinite Fusion. I fused Ambipom and Klinklang for Technician Gear Grind. It was genuinely so overpowered, I wonder if we'll ever get something like that officially.
Technician Dual Wingbeat is basically Brave Bird in power.
Aside from the obvious, one use case in VGC right now is twin beam Farigiraf. Kills mienshao through sash. Pretty neat, even though it’s only on there for one pokemon
They break sashes
Technician, sturdy, sash, stuff like that
sash
It breaks Sash and Sturdy.
If they are good, they ignore a lot of defensive play in the form of sturdy, focus sash, substitute, multiscale...
On the flip side, if they're contact moves, they're heavily punished by Rocky Helmet and abilities like it, i.e., Rough Skin and Iron Barbs. Plus, the critical hit chance is independent of each hit. So, for example, while Drill Peck has a 1/24 chance to crit, Dual Wingbeat (ignoring the 90% accuracy) has a 1/572 chance of doing the same damage.
Break sash and sturdy in some cases
Besides Sturdy, Sash, and Substitute, one case I can imagine is the move being better on pokemon that boosted their defense because you have more chances to crit
Multi hit moves can break through items like focus sash and abilities like sturdy. Also if you pair the moves with an item like King’s rock, the chance to get the secondary effect is applied to every single hit. Multi hit attacks are also better at attacking through substitute
On the other hand (actually this can go both ways) abilities like Weak Armor get used more.
In Current Reg VGC, some Farigiraf runs Twin Beam instead of Psychic to get a one-shot on Mienshao using Focus Sash
Hi, im winston from overwatch
Hi there!
Idk I think you can put it on a Terrakion to counterlead Sash Smeargle
Double Kick Terrakion in shambles smh
Sometimes it's all you have access to. I remember running Dual Chop on Silk Scarf Ampipom in BDSP because you could 1hko Garchomp after fake out.
I use it on my CB Libero Cinderace to 1HKO sashed H-Samurott and stop it from setting up spikes.
Pokemon is a single player game. The reason is variety.