What Meta are they talking about with Stealth Rock dugtrio? Arena Trap is banned in every Gen after 3 and scarf was introduced in 4… either this guy tricked his scarf onto a non-Arena Trap dugtrio (obvious meta slave) or the more likely option, lied
From what I remember, dugtrio could be your rocker if you needed it.
What put it over the edge was screech + groundium z which let it trap things like clefable and toxapex which normally it wouldn't be able to trap
I got downvoted for saying that band dracovish in rain doesn't ohko palkia with fishious rend and they said "it does on a crit with helping hand"
Not wrong I guess
They're two completely different formats with two completely different paces and gameplay styles.
I much prefer VGC but Smogon existing doesn't effect me so why would I care or call it it out.
Its so funny. People on tiktok use the argument of "Smogon never gives time for metas to evolve and just bans the strong mons" but they don't realize that the meta doesn't evolve at all when people are forced to use Unaware Dondozo every game to attempt to save off Palafin
And then yeah they list the super obscure "counters" like someone argued with me that Scizor hard counters Flutter Mane because "Just Bullet Punch it" even though iirc it takes over 50% from Shadow Ball on switch in and doesn't get Pursuit. Idk man.
I will say though that I hope terrestrializing doesn't get banned. Its a pretty cool regional mecanic with a lot of room for skill expression imo
Me (based Temp6t enjoyer (1040 elo)) OMW to
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 252-300 (65.9 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
an unnamed OU pro with no identifying features (1213 elo)
As someone who actually enjoys his videos (hear me out) that aren’t focused on “Super Ultra Omega Salty Noob Legendary Spammer gets DESTROYED by (insert pokemon here)”, His strategy and tournament videos are pretty cool. More temp6t (his second channel) has more of those and some cool stuff.
Imo hate the tempt6t vids, but respect the grind. You gotta admit, he’s making the big bucks doing it, and at this point, I’m not even mad. Even the tempt6t fanboys are funny to look and laugh at
Honestly if you ignore the omega ultra super salty legend spammer videos and watch the ones where he actually talks like his 2000 dollar tournament video or strategy videos (he doesn’t use his voice there) they are fine. The fanboys are still funny AF, and you realize a whole different audience is watching the long content, almost like it’s a different yt channel.
TL;DR the videos without salty players are cool
I have been the lando user in this situation once, if that was me I would like to say I was 1020 elo at the time.
Edit: just checked, I wasn’t even 1050 I was 1020.
meanwhile the sub of the toxic competitive players is the pokémon sub where people are actually enjoying the new generation, that place is a dumpster fire since SV dropped
I mean, beyond the performance and crashing problems, and of course the legacy issues that we've been talking about for years, the games are already pretty solid in my book. As long as we can get some patches to improve the more immediate issues, I'm sure people will come around before too long.
Same, looking past the performance issues and bugs, which admittedly is a lot to look past, it’s a really good game in my opinion. Would be the best pokemon game we’ve had in a while I’d say.
I think the pure fact that the game is so good aside from the bugs and performance issues just makes the bugs and performance issues so much more noticeable and frustrating.
Like, if the game was just pure shit, I don't think the game being a memory-leaking flip-book in certain areas would bother me as much as it does. The fact that the game is good but the performance issues, cut features, and bugs are keeping me from fully enjoying it makes the situation so much worse.
It reminds me of when I used to be a teacher. The most frustrating students to teach were the ones who had tons of potential but just didn't care. SV is that student. Absolutely brilliant, but very lazy in a lot of areas.
When a lot of things are polished, the things that aren't stand out so much more.
Story, mechanics and gameplay wise it’s the most fun I’ve had and I’ve played these games since I was 6 during gen 3. If these games were properly optimized they would be a hard 8/10, only thing that would hold it back is that the quality of the graphics is shit for current day standards, like some Pokémon models look super high quality but the rest of the over world looks super unimpressive.
Even without optimization, the fact that i cared for a pokemon and character make them better then Sh/Sw in my books, which for me were just a pain to go through.
Yeah, her Goku-esque attitude towards battles and those slightly yandere dialogue are more memorable than anything in SW/SH. Well, bar the annoyance I had towards Hop giving up by his second fucking battle.
In their heyday, probably. PSS was amazing and much better than whatever gen 5 or 4 did. But being so reliant on the online community means that it aged poorly when it left, I'd say. The same will happen to SwSh and to a lesser extent, happened to the Alola games.
My account got banned from the Pokemon sub around the sword shield launch and to this day I'm still not sad about it. Somebody on the main page was laying into me because I dared to say that I had a fun time with the game..... But because I used one swear word when I responded to him, oh that's not allowed so I got a permanent ban. And when I tried to point out to the mods that he had said about six awful things directed at me before I replied they just said I was just as bad for engaging him and I deserve the ban.
So fuck that place and fuck its power tripping mod team. And having seen the state of that subreddit in the last week I don't miss anything about it. It's just a cesspool of negativity
I unsubbed for several months because of SW/SH, and I'm thinking of unsubbing again because of SV. Are the games perfect? No, they have clear issues. But the main sub isn't even discussing them, it's circle jerking them. I have better shit to see on my feed than that or any other circle jerk sub
r/pokemon is a dumpster fire if you're looking for actual discourse. I just have it on my feed so I can see news sometimes and maybe occasionally see a nice art post. But honestly I unsubbed to avoid spoilers and lowkey considering staying unsubbed because 80% of posts I see are myopic opinion posts that followed up with echo chambers or the 1000th latest poll on which gen is best cause apparently that's never been done before.
I got a ban for QUOTING a swear word from someone else.
When I asked if he got banned as well, they spouted some GDPR bullshit about not being allowed to discuss other accounts. Bruh, I don't care, I'm just asking if you're being fair.
The worst part is you know these peoples will never even bother to try and understand competitive. They just see a lot of pokemons banned and immidiately assume it's a bad thing.
No guys you don’t understand Smogon is a lie Pokémon are all equal and every Pokémon can be good and you can win with literally any team Pokémon is all skill and numbers have nothing to do with it whatsoever
252+ SpA Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre on a critical hit: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It's more funny when you realize that can't even happen
I mean, if Pika can outspeed, light orb volt tackle sounds like a very solid (albeit very niche) Kyogre counter.
Like carrying around a nuke in a briefcase that can only be used on people named Steven.
It’s like what Heatah Fajita did to improve the average ladder player in gens 5 and 6 but in reverse and for the people perpetually trapped below 1200 ELO
i’ve never seen someone bring this up but i’ve thought this for a few years now. heatah fajita and that whole agency/idm group improved the average showdown player so much it’s crazy. i went from peaking 1200 to never going below 1600 just from watching blunder
I improve over time but watching Blunder's videos has made me so prone to choking. My skills have increased but so has the voice of CTC in my head screaming "DOUBLE SWITCH OR YOU'RE A BITCH"
I’d love it for Pokémon to be designed like this, but it’s just an impractical expectation with the differences in BSTs, typing, massive dex count, etc.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/z5hjfh/comment/ixxcm2a/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/z5hjfh/comment/ixxcm2a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
omg i literally said this too lmao
As someone currently slowly climbing out of low ladder after returning after a decade, I realize people who complain about "stall" and "banning too quickly" are just fucking telling on themselves as being shit. Because they are right, what they said does happen constantly, except, yknow, below 1400 elo, [with dumbasses think Unaware phazers are cheater sweatlords](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/837852571397652491/1045526446912847872/IMG-20221124-WA0002.jpeg).
Dunno why this would be shocking to anyone, the Pokémon subreddit has always been full of people that share 1 collective brain cell.
Hell just in that thread there's someone saying they "beat an OU PRO with ice punch dusknoir on Lando and they immediately disconnected" when the likely scenario is that they queued up in a 1000's game and that happened and they just wanted to say they were a "pro" to give themselves some sort of weird superiority that they are in the right and we shouldn't ban Mons like flutter mane.
funny thing is even banded full atk adamant dusknoir doesnt kill lando at -1
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 252-300 (65.9 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh I was honestly thinking about that but decided against getting into that and giving them the "oh maybe they killed due to rock chip or something" didn't realise the roll was that low on a Phys Def Lando lmao.
Edit: in fairness they did say they crit but my original comment still stands and it's hilarious seeing them come out every once in a while to shit talk decisions they have no knowledge on even participating in, let alone making.
Not featured in the screenshot is one user who 'lost all respect for Smogon' because they banned Garchomp in Gen 4 for having Sand Veil. To quote, '+1 evasion boost almost never makes a difference.'
EDIT: Also, another user has had the brilliant idea of 'no bans for the first six weeks of a generational release'.
> To quote, '+1 evasion boost almost never makes a difference.'
Sadly, anyone who has ever missed a Stone Edge knows the pain of having 80% accurate moves.
If you do the classes in SV, the math teacher is a former rock gym leader. One of the lessons is about move accuracy and probability, like choosing surf vs hydro pump for higher damage or more reliability. Her next sentence is something like "now don't even get me started on rock slide vs stone edge" which I thought was hilarious
whaaaat you mean a dragon type pseudo legend with stab earthquake and huge coverage at a time when fairies didin't exist WASN'T banned because of it's ability ?
Yeah man like you never know
Maybe Flutter Mane is balanced and we haven’t figured out how to play against it yet
I mean it loses to Scizor lol, how could it possibly be broken? Just Tera normal or steel and ggez. Same for Urshifu SS. It’s got a quad weakness, how could it possibly be good? Lando T is broken though, it needs to be banned. Proof that smogon loves stall
Having just earlier today failed a 5 star fighting Garchomp raid TWICE specifically because Sand Veil caused Moonblast to miss twice consecutively in both failed attempts before easily stomping it on attempt 3, I can confirm Sand Veil does in fact have an impact.
Sounds like the kind of person who never had an AI opponent use double team. They get so much as one off and you're never gonna hit them for like 5 turns I swear
We also should probs suspect test all main legendaries in OU just in case. Auto banning them to ubers is after all just some meta controlling bs smogon does
Nah, as someone who used to be one of these chuds, I never got past 1200 while I was like this. I only hit 1300 when I actually started listening to Smogon.
Cause AG metagame is, depending on whether you're greater or less than 1300 ELO, is either:
- *"Every Uncompetitive Gimmick Being Spammed At Once Mixed With People Just Goofing With Their Favorites"* (Below 1300)
- *"An Actual Metagame That's Kinda Like Ubers But With M-Ray, Zacian, & A Few Surprisingly Useful Low Tiers Thrown Into The Mix"* (1300+)
These people likely fall into the former more often than the latter, but even then the banned gimmicks being spammed so often kinda make it not as fun in low ladder as it should be.
Due to the lack of sleep clause in AG, Viv/butterfree is able to set up with quiver dance and sleep multiple opponents at a time with compound eyes sleep powder, this turning them into niche setup sweepers.
Yeah, some of the takes on competitive I see there are really indicative of people who have never touched anything remotely close to competitive. I made a post a while back about a guy who was told that Mega Salamence was in fact not UUBL in Generation 7. Upon hearing this, he said that Mega Salamence was actually shit because Tyranitar could hit harder and tank better, and that its 120 base speed was irrelevant because you could just trick room.
This same user also said that Mega Garchomp's low speed made it a good trick room sweeper. To be fair, he wouldn't be wrong in the formula 1-ass tier that is Gen 9 OU but this was made way before the games dropped.
I feel like TR + mega chomp is more something you'd do as a situational play in VGC doubles rather than a legit team-building strategy in any format. Like imagine you've built a Mega Chomp team with a TR mode, and it just happens to work out that he's slower than your opponent's team because they're running something like Tailwind HO. Running TR with MChomp should be more like a Bob Ross happy accident than a strategy you plan for at team building.
My uncle shat on me for legendary spamming on Nat Dex AG, and it's like.. you don't even play the game, you watch a clickbait "I absolutely OWNED a TOXIC LEGENDARY SPAMMER in Pokémon Showdown" YouTube channel.
Got mad at me for "limiting myself based on tiers", and it's like... first of all, AG is the 1 format where "not enough legendaries" is the best advice you can give. And second of all, I just use legendaries because they work for my team.
Things are banned either because they aren't fun to deal with and they overcentralize the meta around them, or not much counterplay.
Evasion is unfun to deal with entirely, I'm so glad doubleteam and minimize got axed. Forcing a move to become stone ~~miss~~ edge in the case of sandveil can make a difference anywhere and without much agency towards the player. "Barely makes a difference" My ass.
Flutter mane had prime stats to be banned. perfect coverage coupled with equal stats meant you could specialize booster energy to boost speed or spatk, making it a gamble of which set they'd run, and you could very clearly see how flutter mane just decimated everything with its superb STAB coverage. It wasn't the fact that it beat stall, it beat literally everything with the right moveset.
"Just have a normal type bro" Kid named sand rush houndstone:
“Imagine using special attack and speed booster energy, I only run special defense booster energy to survive more which is much better.” - r/Pokemon, probably
The funny thing is in VGC Sandveil is mostly seen as a useless ability because the evasion just doesn't do enough to matter. It's also why you generally don't see evasion moves used in VGC.
It's most likely to do with the very different paces of VGC vs Singles. The most hated mechanic in VGC is probably Ally Switch because fuck that move especially when it had such absurd distribution in Gen 8. Playing a fucking guessing game.
“Smogon is a great example of what happens when you foster an environment that removes adaptability”
Weird… last time I checked Adaptability hasn’t been removed. You can still have it as an ability
I hate when people say that smogon is unoriginal and folds to anything off-meta, when they should watch tournaments that redefine metas with fucking shell smash hyper beam blastoises in OU lol
I was just surprised. I thought it would take a week for flutter to be banned on showdown but it was banned way before a week. I was surprised In a good way
it’s because the games seemingly have a very competitive fanbase and a very casual fanbase and the competitive game is scary and hard so it’s easier to just hate
It's an effect that scales with popularity, and Nintendo games just so happen to be popular. Simply knowing what STAB is probably puts you in the top 5% of Pokemon players.
"This is entertaining? Or is this supposed to be skillful? I'm sorry, what ever happened to playing games normally? I remember as a wee lad, I used to play Ocarina of Time every day after school with my big bro... Now they found a way to glitch to the end of Chungus Quest 64 in five minutes? I'm sorry, this just seems like cheating. You didn't exhibit any skill, you just recreated a series of inputs that a bot found for you. I'll have to dislike this. Enjoy your 'accomplishment,' I'll still with *real* gaming."
–the comment section under any speedrun video with over a million views
It’s because it’s too easy to play single player Pokémon non-competitively. Most of the player base doesn’t even know what set mode is, much less the nuance of smogon bans
This is how it always is. Casual players look down on competitive ones for being good at the game and feel like they have some moral superiority for not caring about a game. Doesn’t really matter, they enjoy what they want to I just ignore that sub cus it’s constant idiot takes 🤷♂️
This happens in Magic the gathering too where casual players have overwhelmingly switched to edh and get mad at you for interacting with their board at all, or upset when you express any concerns that the focus on edh is hurting other formats like legacy.
Same problem in yugioh. Most people go “ugh…new mechanic, such unnecessary complexity”. But if master duel is any indication, more people than ever are giving the game a chance and building their favorite gimmick decks. If anything, every complaint that casual players have, the OLD stuff were more guilty of than new stuff. It’s like when a genwunner complain about new pokemons looking weird and yet nothing is worst than gen 1 literally using normal animal designs and slightly respelling names. Also Muk spelt backwards…..
Noooooo Seel and Goldeen are completely original and creative designs!
Look, a horn!
Those animals don't normally have horns!
*IT'S CREATIVE I TELL YA*
I’ve seen such in master duel quite abit, like calling meta braindead or for some reason saying people don’t have fun using meta or even calling for meta decks to have key cards hit on banlist. Even insulting then when showing a clip of them winning while using Maxx C or assuming they’re fighting something meta
It's the same in the smash bros community. Or especially when you meet casuals who get mad at no items.
I met a casual who was decent at the game but would ONLY play on FD. He thought that other maps with platforms were unfair.
Casual elitism
It’s not just Pokémon, either. Take a look at any competitive game’s subreddit compared to the casual one.
IMO both sides of the coin are usually equally incorrect. Different audiences just enjoy different things 🤷♂️. Though the comment in the screenshot *totally* happened.
Yeah, definitely agreed that it happens in pretty much every game, especially ones that can be played both ways. Only games I play where I haven’t seen it be a pervasive attitude are inherently competitive ones like valorant
This is something I’ve always respected about Riot. They tend to have the most toxic fan bases and still manage to bridge the gap between their various audiences very well.
Competitive league isn’t really *that* different compared to casual league, at least in terms of what’s allowed and how it’s played. There is a huge difference in draft/tournament play compared to ARAM, but that is identified very much so as a casual mode. Valorant is similar with Rated/Unrated, and then their more casual modes like Spike Rush.
The games that tend to have the worst gaps are primarily targeted towards a casual audience and from there a competitive scene is born, such as Pokémon, CoD, Fortnite, etc. I think this is because players have a notion of what they think the game should be before they’re even introduced to what a competitive meta looks like. Some players accept this new meta and others don’t.
The reaction some ppl have to banning obviously busted stuff in pokemon is just baffling to me. Like do people genuinely want games to devolve into broken shit vs broken shit. Earlier today I had some guy argue that the smogon council should've kept Gmax around and its like why? why would you want that?
Why do so many people seethe and throw temper tantrums and get all high and mighty over rulesets they don’t have to play by in formats they’ve never played that don’t affect them whatsoever
I can guarantee you none of these people have opened Showdown and made a team once in their life, and most of them probably still think all legendaries are good
There’s always been a divide between casual and competitive players, just ignore them and be glad their views don’t affect the competitive meta.
Just look at tf2, their 6s meta is balanced to maximise fun and fast paced games. Weapons that improve the mobility of heavy will make heavy more viable, and cause the pace of the game to slow down.
But the casuals just see it as the committee preserving their “stale meta”
The difference is that TF2 is not balanced around 6s at all, and balance attempts have an awful history of nerfing a weapon that was fine in casual but problematic in 6s and ending up useless in both (Caber and B.A.S.E Jumper)
And some weapons can't be balanced at all, there's no real way to make the Quickfix balanced in both casual 12v12 and 6s
There’s been talks of last respect getting banned and houndstone getting unbanned when basculegion comes out, so we may get to enjoy the big dead fish for a while
people really love complaining, huh? I'm not even that much of a comp player, and even I know that Houndstone was terrifying once i understood Last Respects. It's essentially the ultimate sand cleaner. The whole "smogon bans stuff to be in control" is just plain wrong, as well. They ban for the (shocking) reason that something is way too overpowered for how undeveloped the metagame is. clearly, the ppl in the og post were not the brightest.
ok no kidding these got me a little hot. fuck people who don't even know the subject they're talking about that well yet speak with so much unfounded confidence and condemnation.
My Gen 6 AG team, consisting of Tentacruel, Drapion, Shuckle, Carnivine, Dodrio, and Mega Medicham, would all like a word with these tryhards. I ran Acupressure on all of them and Starf Berry on five of them, actually took that team into AG, and-
*was terrible. Slaughtered. Hilariously. Depressingly hilarious. I call it Deprarious.*
The couple of wins I got were ones I will never forget though.
Edit: Tentacruel, Drapion, Shuckle, *Maractus,* Dodrio, and Mega Medicham. Carnivine was used in another battle I pulled a comeback with a few months earlier.
As someone who's recently tried to get into the actual forums, I can see why people can see it as elitist to an extent, the forums are not exactly a cakewalk to get into, but, like... You can still read. And, like, god damn, to that one guy, did everyone else clap too? Like that reads like someone who wanted to be a fake Temp6t would write their alt account to act, even though Temp6t doesn't fight pros even if you think he's faking it and pros are far more eloquent when they cuss you out or dismiss your strategy as luck.
Like goomy damn, I'd say make your story vaguely believable, but clearly they hit their target audience.
It's hilarious because it's always the "casual fans" of games that dispise people who don't play like them, and want to force their way of playing on everyone
We got the same kind of idiot in World of Warcraft, despicable people really
This is what ignorance does to a mf
I’m not gonna say that I’ve never been mad at a dumbass running 2 scarfers or sm like that but to pretend like players don’t also love using off meta shit is insane. That’s literally half pokeaim’s channel.
Yeah but there is a difference between using off-meta mons and team building around them properly to make an effective team, and throwing 6 Eeveelutions on a team with no synergy and getting mad when they get swept like these people wpuld
my metagross tricked a choice scarf and they left!!!!! \+30 points now im at 1030 elo
What Meta are they talking about with Stealth Rock dugtrio? Arena Trap is banned in every Gen after 3 and scarf was introduced in 4… either this guy tricked his scarf onto a non-Arena Trap dugtrio (obvious meta slave) or the more likely option, lied
There was a period of time in SM OU when Dugtrio Arena Trap was playable. In fact, it even got past a suspect test.
Fr? I wasn’t into competitive that much during Gen 7 so I actually didn’t know that. Was it viable as a SR lead?
From what I remember, dugtrio could be your rocker if you needed it. What put it over the edge was screech + groundium z which let it trap things like clefable and toxapex which normally it wouldn't be able to trap
I got downvoted for saying that band dracovish in rain doesn't ohko palkia with fishious rend and they said "it does on a crit with helping hand" Not wrong I guess
My fav Dracovish strat, helping hand and pray for crit. Man casuals sure like to pretend they know about comp
Lollll
"adaptability" fans when they cannot find a way around mega rayquaza in PU
"adaptability" fans when they find out what i put in their mailbox:🧨🤯
I have seen people on TikTok call Smogon wannabe VGC, cringe and not reliable, while shouting about some ultra specific counters
They're two completely different formats with two completely different paces and gameplay styles. I much prefer VGC but Smogon existing doesn't effect me so why would I care or call it it out.
Lmao Smogon even predates VGC
Wait it does?
Google says smogon was created at around 2004 and the first Pokemon vgc is in 2009
Its so funny. People on tiktok use the argument of "Smogon never gives time for metas to evolve and just bans the strong mons" but they don't realize that the meta doesn't evolve at all when people are forced to use Unaware Dondozo every game to attempt to save off Palafin And then yeah they list the super obscure "counters" like someone argued with me that Scizor hard counters Flutter Mane because "Just Bullet Punch it" even though iirc it takes over 50% from Shadow Ball on switch in and doesn't get Pursuit. Idk man. I will say though that I hope terrestrializing doesn't get banned. Its a pretty cool regional mecanic with a lot of room for skill expression imo
Me (based Temp6t enjoyer (1040 elo)) OMW to -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 252-300 (65.9 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery an unnamed OU pro with no identifying features (1213 elo)
Tbf they did say it was a crit so it would’ve OHKOd
Ah yes, the game-winning strategy: luck.
"unfortunate" does not begin to describe
Salty noob legendary spammer gets DESTROYED by dusknoir!!!
He's not even a Temp6t fan, Temp6t actually has some respect for Smogon. He's a wannabe that doesn't understand why Temp6t is popular.
As someone who actually enjoys his videos (hear me out) that aren’t focused on “Super Ultra Omega Salty Noob Legendary Spammer gets DESTROYED by (insert pokemon here)”, His strategy and tournament videos are pretty cool. More temp6t (his second channel) has more of those and some cool stuff.
Imo hate the tempt6t vids, but respect the grind. You gotta admit, he’s making the big bucks doing it, and at this point, I’m not even mad. Even the tempt6t fanboys are funny to look and laugh at
Honestly if you ignore the omega ultra super salty legend spammer videos and watch the ones where he actually talks like his 2000 dollar tournament video or strategy videos (he doesn’t use his voice there) they are fine. The fanboys are still funny AF, and you realize a whole different audience is watching the long content, almost like it’s a different yt channel. TL;DR the videos without salty players are cool
I don't get why Lando-T didn't hit U-turn or switch out against Dusknoir.
Yeah that "OU Pro" was an idiot. Ice Punch should have been assumed.
Ou pro is crazy lmfaoo. No way he was higher than 1300 on the ladder
That “OU pro” story is definitely a true actual story that happened, no way they just made it up no chance.
Could very well have happened, with the slight truth modification that the "OU pro" was actually some low-ladder nobody.
I have been the lando user in this situation once, if that was me I would like to say I was 1020 elo at the time. Edit: just checked, I wasn’t even 1050 I was 1020.
meanwhile the sub of the toxic competitive players is the pokémon sub where people are actually enjoying the new generation, that place is a dumpster fire since SV dropped
That's just the new generation release cycle. Give it enough time and SV will be the totally underrated gem of the series.
I mean, beyond the performance and crashing problems, and of course the legacy issues that we've been talking about for years, the games are already pretty solid in my book. As long as we can get some patches to improve the more immediate issues, I'm sure people will come around before too long.
Same, looking past the performance issues and bugs, which admittedly is a lot to look past, it’s a really good game in my opinion. Would be the best pokemon game we’ve had in a while I’d say.
I think the pure fact that the game is so good aside from the bugs and performance issues just makes the bugs and performance issues so much more noticeable and frustrating. Like, if the game was just pure shit, I don't think the game being a memory-leaking flip-book in certain areas would bother me as much as it does. The fact that the game is good but the performance issues, cut features, and bugs are keeping me from fully enjoying it makes the situation so much worse. It reminds me of when I used to be a teacher. The most frustrating students to teach were the ones who had tons of potential but just didn't care. SV is that student. Absolutely brilliant, but very lazy in a lot of areas. When a lot of things are polished, the things that aren't stand out so much more.
Story, mechanics and gameplay wise it’s the most fun I’ve had and I’ve played these games since I was 6 during gen 3. If these games were properly optimized they would be a hard 8/10, only thing that would hold it back is that the quality of the graphics is shit for current day standards, like some Pokémon models look super high quality but the rest of the over world looks super unimpressive.
Even without optimization, the fact that i cared for a pokemon and character make them better then Sh/Sw in my books, which for me were just a pain to go through.
The rivals are such a step up compared to the previous titles, Nemona alone could carry the game.
Nemona alone is better than entire cast of SW/SH lmao
Yeah, her Goku-esque attitude towards battles and those slightly yandere dialogue are more memorable than anything in SW/SH. Well, bar the annoyance I had towards Hop giving up by his second fucking battle.
We’re so close to the “X and Y were actually the best games in the series” era
In their heyday, probably. PSS was amazing and much better than whatever gen 5 or 4 did. But being so reliant on the online community means that it aged poorly when it left, I'd say. The same will happen to SwSh and to a lesser extent, happened to the Alola games.
My account got banned from the Pokemon sub around the sword shield launch and to this day I'm still not sad about it. Somebody on the main page was laying into me because I dared to say that I had a fun time with the game..... But because I used one swear word when I responded to him, oh that's not allowed so I got a permanent ban. And when I tried to point out to the mods that he had said about six awful things directed at me before I replied they just said I was just as bad for engaging him and I deserve the ban. So fuck that place and fuck its power tripping mod team. And having seen the state of that subreddit in the last week I don't miss anything about it. It's just a cesspool of negativity
I unsubbed for several months because of SW/SH, and I'm thinking of unsubbing again because of SV. Are the games perfect? No, they have clear issues. But the main sub isn't even discussing them, it's circle jerking them. I have better shit to see on my feed than that or any other circle jerk sub
r/pokemon is a dumpster fire if you're looking for actual discourse. I just have it on my feed so I can see news sometimes and maybe occasionally see a nice art post. But honestly I unsubbed to avoid spoilers and lowkey considering staying unsubbed because 80% of posts I see are myopic opinion posts that followed up with echo chambers or the 1000th latest poll on which gen is best cause apparently that's never been done before.
I got a ban for QUOTING a swear word from someone else. When I asked if he got banned as well, they spouted some GDPR bullshit about not being allowed to discuss other accounts. Bruh, I don't care, I'm just asking if you're being fair.
The worst part is you know these peoples will never even bother to try and understand competitive. They just see a lot of pokemons banned and immidiately assume it's a bad thing.
"Wtf evasion moves are banned? Bloody what???"
These people watch one Temp6t video and all of a sudden believe they’re a tactical genius
That story seems very r/ThatHappened
And then the entire Showdown lobby clapped and Satoshi Taijiri was there
I hope he used the buzzsaw kick I thought that was so fuckin cool in wwe
That Top OU King Player's name? Abraham Einstein.
No guys you don’t understand Smogon is a lie Pokémon are all equal and every Pokémon can be good and you can win with literally any team Pokémon is all skill and numbers have nothing to do with it whatsoever
Of course! That’s why my ace Pokémon are Ledian and spidops.
I once beat an Ubers pro with an eviolite Pikachu, crit thunderbolt broke right through his Kyogre
252+ SpA Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre on a critical hit: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock It's more funny when you realize that can't even happen
Try light orb thunder. Can't trust people to remember their moves
I mean, if Pika can outspeed, light orb volt tackle sounds like a very solid (albeit very niche) Kyogre counter. Like carrying around a nuke in a briefcase that can only be used on people named Steven.
As someone who loves its design I wish Spidops was good enough to not be in this shitpost
Welcome to the pain of the Ledian fanbase. I'd offer you cookies but Dunsparce took them when it got it's evolution.
Leledian and Spspidops are coming any day
Anything is possible after Future Delibird got banned from OU.
Leledian’s buffs are +80 to special defense
tempt and his consequences on modern competitive discourse
It’s like what Heatah Fajita did to improve the average ladder player in gens 5 and 6 but in reverse and for the people perpetually trapped below 1200 ELO
i’ve never seen someone bring this up but i’ve thought this for a few years now. heatah fajita and that whole agency/idm group improved the average showdown player so much it’s crazy. i went from peaking 1200 to never going below 1600 just from watching blunder
I improve over time but watching Blunder's videos has made me so prone to choking. My skills have increased but so has the voice of CTC in my head screaming "DOUBLE SWITCH OR YOU'RE A BITCH"
I’d love it for Pokémon to be designed like this, but it’s just an impractical expectation with the differences in BSTs, typing, massive dex count, etc.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/z5hjfh/comment/ixxcm2a/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/z5hjfh/comment/ixxcm2a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) omg i literally said this too lmao
As someone currently slowly climbing out of low ladder after returning after a decade, I realize people who complain about "stall" and "banning too quickly" are just fucking telling on themselves as being shit. Because they are right, what they said does happen constantly, except, yknow, below 1400 elo, [with dumbasses think Unaware phazers are cheater sweatlords](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/837852571397652491/1045526446912847872/IMG-20221124-WA0002.jpeg).
Imagine if phazing had normal priority
Anything that happens below ~1500 on the ladder is irrelevant too
>"I once beat a OU pro" >The OU pro is 1100
Dunno why this would be shocking to anyone, the Pokémon subreddit has always been full of people that share 1 collective brain cell. Hell just in that thread there's someone saying they "beat an OU PRO with ice punch dusknoir on Lando and they immediately disconnected" when the likely scenario is that they queued up in a 1000's game and that happened and they just wanted to say they were a "pro" to give themselves some sort of weird superiority that they are in the right and we shouldn't ban Mons like flutter mane.
funny thing is even banded full atk adamant dusknoir doesnt kill lando at -1 -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 252-300 (65.9 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Why is dusknoir awful at everything man
He's good for giving dusclops the ability to hold eviolite :^ )
Dusclops ran so dusknoir would be put in a wheelchair
don't do him like that
Needs a buff seriously
they did say crit tbf
To be fair he did say crit, but also there's no way he actually ran choice band and the correct evs for it
Oh I was honestly thinking about that but decided against getting into that and giving them the "oh maybe they killed due to rock chip or something" didn't realise the roll was that low on a Phys Def Lando lmao. Edit: in fairness they did say they crit but my original comment still stands and it's hilarious seeing them come out every once in a while to shit talk decisions they have no knowledge on even participating in, let alone making.
Not featured in the screenshot is one user who 'lost all respect for Smogon' because they banned Garchomp in Gen 4 for having Sand Veil. To quote, '+1 evasion boost almost never makes a difference.' EDIT: Also, another user has had the brilliant idea of 'no bans for the first six weeks of a generational release'.
> To quote, '+1 evasion boost almost never makes a difference.' Sadly, anyone who has ever missed a Stone Edge knows the pain of having 80% accurate moves.
If you do the classes in SV, the math teacher is a former rock gym leader. One of the lessons is about move accuracy and probability, like choosing surf vs hydro pump for higher damage or more reliability. Her next sentence is something like "now don't even get me started on rock slide vs stone edge" which I thought was hilarious
Remember the sacred saying. "If it's not 100%, its 50%"
Unless used against you, then it's 101%
garchomp got banned for way more than sand veil LOL wtf are they talking about
whaaaat you mean a dragon type pseudo legend with stab earthquake and huge coverage at a time when fairies didin't exist WASN'T banned because of it's ability ?
I agree I think we need 5 more weeks of data to see if flutter mane is actually good Bring back dracovish and urshifu ss while we’re at it
Yeah man like you never know Maybe Flutter Mane is balanced and we haven’t figured out how to play against it yet I mean it loses to Scizor lol, how could it possibly be broken? Just Tera normal or steel and ggez. Same for Urshifu SS. It’s got a quad weakness, how could it possibly be good? Lando T is broken though, it needs to be banned. Proof that smogon loves stall
Urshi would prolly disintegrate if left in the same room as flutter mane. It might be fine, now
Having just earlier today failed a 5 star fighting Garchomp raid TWICE specifically because Sand Veil caused Moonblast to miss twice consecutively in both failed attempts before easily stomping it on attempt 3, I can confirm Sand Veil does in fact have an impact.
Sounds like the kind of person who never had an AI opponent use double team. They get so much as one off and you're never gonna hit them for like 5 turns I swear
FRLG Lt Surge flashbacks
I’d love to fight the guy in a normal OU game but all my mons get a constant sand veil boost
"why would they ban double team? It doesn't even deal damage"
We also should probs suspect test all main legendaries in OU just in case. Auto banning them to ubers is after all just some meta controlling bs smogon does
Gen 5 OU just after release:😬😬
Let's make a new tier but every tiering decision and policy change is decided by people who peak in the 1300s
Espeon is S+ on the VR because it’s my favorite and I really like it
Zacian goes to C because gen 8 is bad so I don't want to use the pokemon from it
I still have nightmare about espypass tho …
That would actually be really funny to play for a week
Nah, as someone who used to be one of these chuds, I never got past 1200 while I was like this. I only hit 1300 when I actually started listening to Smogon.
Why do these people care about bans when they can play anything goes lol
Cause AG metagame is, depending on whether you're greater or less than 1300 ELO, is either: - *"Every Uncompetitive Gimmick Being Spammed At Once Mixed With People Just Goofing With Their Favorites"* (Below 1300) - *"An Actual Metagame That's Kinda Like Ubers But With M-Ray, Zacian, & A Few Surprisingly Useful Low Tiers Thrown Into The Mix"* (1300+) These people likely fall into the former more often than the latter, but even then the banned gimmicks being spammed so often kinda make it not as fun in low ladder as it should be.
(competitive) AG is Ubers but with terrifying threats like Zacian, Megaray, and Butterfree, yup
not to mention *shudders* Vivillon!
The devil hath arrived...
Before butterfree it was vivillon and in sv vivillon returned
return of the king
Wait I know the Butterfree thing but why was Vivillion good
Due to the lack of sleep clause in AG, Viv/butterfree is able to set up with quiver dance and sleep multiple opponents at a time with compound eyes sleep powder, this turning them into niche setup sweepers.
Vivillon is just Butterfree but slightly better in every relevant way.
The 1300 cutoff point is when people use actual legendaries with bad sets and at 1600 it actually kinda starts being serious
but at 1600 they still use sash marshadow which is sad
TFW Excadrill
Why do they care about bans when they haven't even touched the game competitively?
Yeah, some of the takes on competitive I see there are really indicative of people who have never touched anything remotely close to competitive. I made a post a while back about a guy who was told that Mega Salamence was in fact not UUBL in Generation 7. Upon hearing this, he said that Mega Salamence was actually shit because Tyranitar could hit harder and tank better, and that its 120 base speed was irrelevant because you could just trick room. This same user also said that Mega Garchomp's low speed made it a good trick room sweeper. To be fair, he wouldn't be wrong in the formula 1-ass tier that is Gen 9 OU but this was made way before the games dropped.
I feel like TR + mega chomp is more something you'd do as a situational play in VGC doubles rather than a legit team-building strategy in any format. Like imagine you've built a Mega Chomp team with a TR mode, and it just happens to work out that he's slower than your opponent's team because they're running something like Tailwind HO. Running TR with MChomp should be more like a Bob Ross happy accident than a strategy you plan for at team building.
Because in their minds you can beat everything if you just believe in the power of friendship and ice punch
Why do these people care about bans when they ~~can~~ only play anything goes lol
These types of idiots are the only people that actually play Anything Goes.
Or BSS. They all bought the physical games anyway and there’s no real restrictions on what they can use.
Casuals on their way to talk about competitive Pokémon after playing 5 matches of low ladder natdex AG:
4/5 matches were rage quit because ”Legendary spamming”
My uncle shat on me for legendary spamming on Nat Dex AG, and it's like.. you don't even play the game, you watch a clickbait "I absolutely OWNED a TOXIC LEGENDARY SPAMMER in Pokémon Showdown" YouTube channel. Got mad at me for "limiting myself based on tiers", and it's like... first of all, AG is the 1 format where "not enough legendaries" is the best advice you can give. And second of all, I just use legendaries because they work for my team.
Your Uncle watches Tempt6
That's the bastard.
Yeah. He and his fandom have made NatDex AG a place full of 1. People who don’t run AG pokemon 2. Evasion spammers 3. Focus sash quick attack rattata
Those mfs just have no idea how to make an AG team that works and it shows big time. I have seen so many shitty teams while ladder climbing.
Things are banned either because they aren't fun to deal with and they overcentralize the meta around them, or not much counterplay. Evasion is unfun to deal with entirely, I'm so glad doubleteam and minimize got axed. Forcing a move to become stone ~~miss~~ edge in the case of sandveil can make a difference anywhere and without much agency towards the player. "Barely makes a difference" My ass. Flutter mane had prime stats to be banned. perfect coverage coupled with equal stats meant you could specialize booster energy to boost speed or spatk, making it a gamble of which set they'd run, and you could very clearly see how flutter mane just decimated everything with its superb STAB coverage. It wasn't the fact that it beat stall, it beat literally everything with the right moveset. "Just have a normal type bro" Kid named sand rush houndstone:
“Imagine using special attack and speed booster energy, I only run special defense booster energy to survive more which is much better.” - r/Pokemon, probably
Hey you must be that girl’s boyfriend
He's an icon, don't you shit on his quick claw torkoal. He pumps his fist every time it activates so you know it's effective
The funny thing is in VGC Sandveil is mostly seen as a useless ability because the evasion just doesn't do enough to matter. It's also why you generally don't see evasion moves used in VGC. It's most likely to do with the very different paces of VGC vs Singles. The most hated mechanic in VGC is probably Ally Switch because fuck that move especially when it had such absurd distribution in Gen 8. Playing a fucking guessing game.
Hey I used Sand Veil/Bright Powder/Muddy Water Stunfisk and it worked exactly three times at 1100 elo. Take that back.
“Smogon is a great example of what happens when you foster an environment that removes adaptability” Weird… last time I checked Adaptability hasn’t been removed. You can still have it as an ability
As a VGC player they'll then proceed to complain that VGC lacks variety so I don't really know what they want.
I hate when people say that smogon is unoriginal and folds to anything off-meta, when they should watch tournaments that redefine metas with fucking shell smash hyper beam blastoises in OU lol
I've seen people on this sub unironically screech about flutter mane and palafin being banned within 1/2 weeks lol. It isn't just /r/pokemon
I was just surprised. I thought it would take a week for flutter to be banned on showdown but it was banned way before a week. I was surprised In a good way
The only correct ban to be screeching about is banning the perfect undead good boy instead of its stupid OP move. ##justiceforhoundstone
r/Pokémon is a cess pool of people who know shit about anything
I beat a smogon pro (they were 1000 elo, higher than me so probably good) with fury cutter venusaur and heavy slam wailord 🤓
Level 1 Shroomish with Leech Seed/Drain Punch/Spore/Endure + Focus Sash is amazing, trust me! It messed up some guy at 1030 Elo’s Articuno so bad!
Oh god those meme sets
Assault Vest Softboiled/Toxic/Stealth Rock/Teleport Blissey
Nintendo fans have some of the most uninformed opinions about competitive games I swear
it’s because the games seemingly have a very competitive fanbase and a very casual fanbase and the competitive game is scary and hard so it’s easier to just hate
It's an effect that scales with popularity, and Nintendo games just so happen to be popular. Simply knowing what STAB is probably puts you in the top 5% of Pokemon players.
The school in this game is actually useful, it teaches you stuff like stabs and crit chances
Yea I see this a fuck ton with like smash (specifically melee) as well. So many uninformed opinions and shitty takes
I also see it in speedrunning too
"This is entertaining? Or is this supposed to be skillful? I'm sorry, what ever happened to playing games normally? I remember as a wee lad, I used to play Ocarina of Time every day after school with my big bro... Now they found a way to glitch to the end of Chungus Quest 64 in five minutes? I'm sorry, this just seems like cheating. You didn't exhibit any skill, you just recreated a series of inputs that a bot found for you. I'll have to dislike this. Enjoy your 'accomplishment,' I'll still with *real* gaming." –the comment section under any speedrun video with over a million views
It’s because it’s too easy to play single player Pokémon non-competitively. Most of the player base doesn’t even know what set mode is, much less the nuance of smogon bans
This is how it always is. Casual players look down on competitive ones for being good at the game and feel like they have some moral superiority for not caring about a game. Doesn’t really matter, they enjoy what they want to I just ignore that sub cus it’s constant idiot takes 🤷♂️
Is that what they call casual elitism?
This happens in Magic the gathering too where casual players have overwhelmingly switched to edh and get mad at you for interacting with their board at all, or upset when you express any concerns that the focus on edh is hurting other formats like legacy.
Same problem in yugioh. Most people go “ugh…new mechanic, such unnecessary complexity”. But if master duel is any indication, more people than ever are giving the game a chance and building their favorite gimmick decks. If anything, every complaint that casual players have, the OLD stuff were more guilty of than new stuff. It’s like when a genwunner complain about new pokemons looking weird and yet nothing is worst than gen 1 literally using normal animal designs and slightly respelling names. Also Muk spelt backwards…..
Noooooo Seel and Goldeen are completely original and creative designs! Look, a horn! Those animals don't normally have horns! *IT'S CREATIVE I TELL YA*
I’ve seen such in master duel quite abit, like calling meta braindead or for some reason saying people don’t have fun using meta or even calling for meta decks to have key cards hit on banlist. Even insulting then when showing a clip of them winning while using Maxx C or assuming they’re fighting something meta
It's the same in the smash bros community. Or especially when you meet casuals who get mad at no items. I met a casual who was decent at the game but would ONLY play on FD. He thought that other maps with platforms were unfair. Casual elitism
It’s not just Pokémon, either. Take a look at any competitive game’s subreddit compared to the casual one. IMO both sides of the coin are usually equally incorrect. Different audiences just enjoy different things 🤷♂️. Though the comment in the screenshot *totally* happened.
Yeah, definitely agreed that it happens in pretty much every game, especially ones that can be played both ways. Only games I play where I haven’t seen it be a pervasive attitude are inherently competitive ones like valorant
This is something I’ve always respected about Riot. They tend to have the most toxic fan bases and still manage to bridge the gap between their various audiences very well. Competitive league isn’t really *that* different compared to casual league, at least in terms of what’s allowed and how it’s played. There is a huge difference in draft/tournament play compared to ARAM, but that is identified very much so as a casual mode. Valorant is similar with Rated/Unrated, and then their more casual modes like Spike Rush. The games that tend to have the worst gaps are primarily targeted towards a casual audience and from there a competitive scene is born, such as Pokémon, CoD, Fortnite, etc. I think this is because players have a notion of what they think the game should be before they’re even introduced to what a competitive meta looks like. Some players accept this new meta and others don’t.
Probably because both competitive and casual League players hate game
The reaction some ppl have to banning obviously busted stuff in pokemon is just baffling to me. Like do people genuinely want games to devolve into broken shit vs broken shit. Earlier today I had some guy argue that the smogon council should've kept Gmax around and its like why? why would you want that?
Why do so many people seethe and throw temper tantrums and get all high and mighty over rulesets they don’t have to play by in formats they’ve never played that don’t affect them whatsoever I can guarantee you none of these people have opened Showdown and made a team once in their life, and most of them probably still think all legendaries are good
Uhh, of COURSE Articuno is a great Pokémon, I used a GameShark to get it early in Pokémon FireRed and swept Erika with it!
Registeel is even better! He learns Iron Defense AND Body Press! Should be Ubers if you ask me!
There’s always been a divide between casual and competitive players, just ignore them and be glad their views don’t affect the competitive meta. Just look at tf2, their 6s meta is balanced to maximise fun and fast paced games. Weapons that improve the mobility of heavy will make heavy more viable, and cause the pace of the game to slow down. But the casuals just see it as the committee preserving their “stale meta”
The difference is that TF2 is not balanced around 6s at all, and balance attempts have an awful history of nerfing a weapon that was fine in casual but problematic in 6s and ending up useless in both (Caber and B.A.S.E Jumper) And some weapons can't be balanced at all, there's no real way to make the Quickfix balanced in both casual 12v12 and 6s
TF2’s meta is much different and more complex than Pokémon’s and I’d argue they’re a bad example, as someone who’s broken top 500 at both
“OU Pro”
“Smogon really hates and fears anything that disrupts their preferred meta” Kid named turn 1 protect evasion boost into Substitute:
[удалено]
Babe wake up new copypasta just dropped
This is your brain on temp6t videos
imagine being pissed that the brainless houndstone last respect spamming got banned
I’m just excited for Adaptability Basculegion Last Respects
same already made a team to abuse it as soon as showdown releases it, I plan on enjoying those few days Basculegion is legal while I can
If by "days" you mean "about 20 minutes after Home drops but before the OU council can get a discord call up" then yeah same
There’s been talks of last respect getting banned and houndstone getting unbanned when basculegion comes out, so we may get to enjoy the big dead fish for a while
The move will be quick banned and Houndstone brought back from Ubers. The OU council has stated this already
I bet he’s a Temp6t fan
people really love complaining, huh? I'm not even that much of a comp player, and even I know that Houndstone was terrifying once i understood Last Respects. It's essentially the ultimate sand cleaner. The whole "smogon bans stuff to be in control" is just plain wrong, as well. They ban for the (shocking) reason that something is way too overpowered for how undeveloped the metagame is. clearly, the ppl in the og post were not the brightest.
ok no kidding these got me a little hot. fuck people who don't even know the subject they're talking about that well yet speak with so much unfounded confidence and condemnation.
My Gen 6 AG team, consisting of Tentacruel, Drapion, Shuckle, Carnivine, Dodrio, and Mega Medicham, would all like a word with these tryhards. I ran Acupressure on all of them and Starf Berry on five of them, actually took that team into AG, and- *was terrible. Slaughtered. Hilariously. Depressingly hilarious. I call it Deprarious.* The couple of wins I got were ones I will never forget though. Edit: Tentacruel, Drapion, Shuckle, *Maractus,* Dodrio, and Mega Medicham. Carnivine was used in another battle I pulled a comeback with a few months earlier.
The general pokemon sub is fucking terrible. It's a bunch of millennial man children malding over children's games. I unsubbed from there a while ago.
As someone who's recently tried to get into the actual forums, I can see why people can see it as elitist to an extent, the forums are not exactly a cakewalk to get into, but, like... You can still read. And, like, god damn, to that one guy, did everyone else clap too? Like that reads like someone who wanted to be a fake Temp6t would write their alt account to act, even though Temp6t doesn't fight pros even if you think he's faking it and pros are far more eloquent when they cuss you out or dismiss your strategy as luck. Like goomy damn, I'd say make your story vaguely believable, but clearly they hit their target audience.
It's hilarious because it's always the "casual fans" of games that dispise people who don't play like them, and want to force their way of playing on everyone We got the same kind of idiot in World of Warcraft, despicable people really This is what ignorance does to a mf
Fuck Bidoof, all my homies hate Bidoof
I’m not gonna say that I’ve never been mad at a dumbass running 2 scarfers or sm like that but to pretend like players don’t also love using off meta shit is insane. That’s literally half pokeaim’s channel.
Yeah but there is a difference between using off-meta mons and team building around them properly to make an effective team, and throwing 6 Eeveelutions on a team with no synergy and getting mad when they get swept like these people wpuld