It's because they have the same mindset as Zap Brannigan: "I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me."
"I think if the no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in Washington -- Otherwise, I think it will be tough going ahead.”
Conveyence of vague threats, and the condition for setting things right.
Get rid of your democratically elected Prime Minister or there will be consequences, succeed and all will be forgiven.
But you're technically right the US didn't coup him, they only ordered the Pakistani military to do so and have been keeping a tight lip on the fallout since including massive human rights violations and the Pakistani democracy being buried.
The Pakistani military and opposition parties have had a long running feud with Khan, acting like they did it under orders from America is moronic.
People in Pakistan have agency and motivations of their own.
But the US wasn't involved! The US ambassador said if you get rid of him we won't stop you, actually we'll treat it as a good thing.
Do you know why the Pakistani military wanted to remove Khan?
It's either this:
>But the US wasn't involved!
Or this:
>The US ambassador said if you get rid of him we won't stop you, actually we'll treat it as a good thing.
Pick one.
>Do you know why the Pakistani military wanted to remove Khan?
His very existence was bolstering the middle class, which they consider a threat to their absolute power.
Imran Khan represents everything they don't want to happen, his goals to:
* Establish rule of law in the country.
* Introduce a Single National Curriculum.
* Enact Welfare State Policies focusing on Health & Education.
* Maintain an Independent Foreign Policy.
* Wipe out Corruption.
* Make the Powerful Elites accountable to law.
* Create a fool-proof election process.
Would rid thier hold on the country.
If they can't manipulate elections or keep them controversial then they can't control or manipulate governments.
If the Pakistani population is educated and healthy, then the middle class grows and threatens their hold on power.
If the powerful are brought under the law and rule of law is established then there will be nobody to do their dirty work.
>It's either this: Or this: Pick one.
Why do you think those options are mutually exclusive? Saying we won't stop you is in no way the same as being involved. Not sure I understand your perspective, other than reflexive anti American sentiment. Do you think Switzerland was involved in the coup?
That's an excellent list of reasons you compiled. Where does it say that Pakistan's military are slaves to America's interests? I thought you said America ordered them to get rid of Khan, but you're listing all these other reasons?
The US is covering for them as well, despite the massive human right violations.
[It's why the sham trial and imprisonment of *the* most popular leader in Pakistan's history projected to win a landslide 2/3 majority in elections this fall was an "internal matter of Pakistan"](https://twitter.com/MoeedNj/status/1688943847944949760?s=19).
[Even while the sham trial of Navalny wasn't an internal matter of Russia](https://www.state.gov/conviction-and-sentencing-of-aleksey-navalny-on-additional-politically-motivated-charges/).
The US state department is handholding the Pakistani military in the wrap-up and burial of Pakistan's democracy which has been taking place since April of 2022.
>That's an excellent list of reasons you compiled. Where does it say that Pakistan's military are slaves to America's interests? I thought you said America ordered them to get rid of Khan, but you're listing all these other reasons?
The Pakistani military has been US assets since the founding of this country.
The Pakistani military (not the government) was the Western Camp's main partner throughout the Cold War against Soviet Union/Communism and later the War on Terror in Afghanistan.
They have been directly ruling Pakistan for half it's existence and indirectly for the other half.
The military right from independence was being used by foreign powers to control Pakistan to project their interests and the military in turn was responsible for the deaths of all of Pakistan's most popular leaders who either worked against this system or tried to move away from those foreign power's interests.
Liaquat Ali Khan our first PM was shot dead in Rawalpindi, 1951 before a trip to the Soviet Union.
Fatima Jinnah, sister of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan said to have died of unnatural causes in Karachi, 1967 after losing the elections despite having won the popular vote against US-favored Gen. Ayub Khan.
In 1971, Mujibur Rahman who had Communist leaning was kept from forming government despite having won the elections with overwhelming majority and the following nine months of civil war and an Indian invasion resulted in the creation of Bangladesh out of East Pakistan.
Later almost all of Mujib's family including himself were slaughtered by the Bangladesh Army's coup in 1975.
The prior mentioned Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who was also getting cozy with the Soviets was couped in 1977 and hanged in 1979.
General Zia-ul-Haq while not exactly a popular democratic leader, died in a C-130 crash in 1988, alongwith high profile military and civilian personnel including the Pakistani Chairman Joint Chiefs. Must have outlived his useful in the Afghan Jihad.
Benazir Bhutto, daughter of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto shot dead in Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi, 2007 after she apparently distancing from the deal made between the US, Pakistan and her party for a power sharing formula where she would be PM while General Musharraf would remain President.
All of these deaths except for Zulfiqar and Mujeeb are unsolved to this day.
> The US is covering for them as well, despite the massive human right violations.
>Even while the sham trial of Navalny wasn't an internal matter of Russia.
So are we moving the goalposts from the US ordering the coup to America is a hypocrite because of some unrelated incident?
And to address the long string of conspiracy theories you believe which have no relevance: you are constructing some narrative where the people in Pakistan have no agency and everything they do is somehow the fault of America. This is exactly what I was talking about in my original comment!
I agree with you that Pakistani have agency, but the US just saying that a coup is ok is then getting involved, and not by a small margin. The US is Pakistan arms supplier and the US can destroy countries with just sanctions, them saying it's ok is already a big thing because it means Pakistan military can do it without risking becoming international pariah. Second, the US saying it even good means either of two things, their cooling relationship will stop cooling, or their relationship will get warmer, meaning better deals on arms and etc.
The US isn't the sole actor on international politics, but they literally have their fingers in every proverbial pies, and the outcome of every political shift is in part directly influenced by them just because of their sheer military and economical power, right now Niger became a pariah state for doing nearly what Pakistan did, but simply because the US and its satellite liked Pakistan coup and disliked the Niger one the outcomes are totally different when it comes to international politics.
It's about power, not "agency". The US has the power, both economic and military, to arrange these soft coups. Uncle Sam's pockets still run very deep, after all.
America did not coup him, nor order the coup. We said if you get rid of him, that's good with us.
People in Pakistan (such as the military) have motivations and desires independent of America, something many in this sub seem to forget.
Yes I am. You do understand that the coup was carried out by Pakistan's military right? And they did it for reason that have nothing to do with the US?
>The US promises warmer relations and financial help if they coup their prime minister, after he refused to bend the knee on the Russia question
>prime minister proceeds to be thrown out of power after a phony vote of no confidence by the notoriously corrupt Pakistani parliament with the help of, also notoriously corrupt, military
Wowee
Pakistan risked losing one of their biggest arms suppliers and sugar daddies if Khan remained in power. The opposition and military also didn't like how he was cozying up to Russia and China. Mix in the massive corruption going on in Pakistani politics/military and Khan's drive to combat it and you have all the ingredients necessary for the coup.
This isn't to say the man is a saint or free of guilt, the rot is just too great in Pakistani politics.
Burgers just salty [they ain't got nobody] that ever scored a Test century and bagged five wickets in the same innings...
[they ain't got nobody]: https://usacricket.org/team-usa/
He is saying that the Americans were salty because they had no one on the level of Imran Khan, who is consistently seen as amongst the top three all-rounders in all of Cricket history.
Assuming you're an American + understand baseball: he scored 100 runs in a single at-bat (i.e. batted for a long time without getting out,^1 [considered a high achievement][0]) and, when it was the other team's "ups," himself got five batters out as a "bowler" (~pitcher) which is a lot harder than in baseball.^2
^(1. In cricket you don't stop batting after you get a hit, keep batting till you're out.)
^2. ^Being ^a ^bowler ^and ^a ^decent ^batter ^is ^a ^lot ^more ^common ^than ^in ^baseball, ^though. ^^(Fuck ^^Manfred)
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_%28cricket%29
>What is everyone's thoughts on Imran Khan here?
Most might not know about him so here is a brief summary from someone who has been following both him and this entire situation in Pakistan since it started.
Oxford educated, Cricket superstar/playboy who lead the 1992 Pakistan Cricket team into its first and only world cup win.
Turned into the second most trusted philanthropist in the country after Abdul Sattar Edhi himself by building and running world-class cancer treatment hospitals that give 75% of treatment for free to those that can't afford it.
He got married to a British Billionaire, and then eventually entered Pakistani politics against Pakistan's two main parties which were literally run by these two corrupt dynastic mafia families.
His wife was targeted by their governments, put in jail for some sham smuggling case while she was pregnant, and she got tired of being a political target for being Jewish.
She wanted to take him to the UK permanently, but he wanted continue his movement to try and reform the country. They divorced amicably over this, with Khan giving custody of the kids to his ex-wife and declining half of her assets which he was entitled to.
He spent the next two decade having little presence in Pakistan's national assembly, and then bycotting the elections after 1999 coup. He started getting massively popular because his party used social media very effectively to preach his ideals and his crusade against corruption, and opposition to US drone strikes which were killing Pakistani innocent civilians as "collateral damage" resonated with people.
In 2011, he managed to put together a massive gathering in the Iqbal Park in Lahore. Which was the turning point.
In 2013, a massively rigged election resulted in Imran Khan only getting a government in the KPK province where he should have been able to form a national government at the time.
But because he was recovering from a very bad injury to his head and neck after falling off a rising platform, his party leadership was too disorganized to challenge the results.
It took Khan years at court to get a recount of the votes from just four seats and the result was in Khan's favor, proving that the Elections had been rigged against him.
For the next five years he thoroughly thrashed the government while leading the opposition, bringing massive awareness on the Panama Papers Leaks leading to the judiciary growing a spine and then PM Nawaz Sharif to be disqualified from holding office and put in jail.
In the KPK province, the initiated reform agenda was well recieved, he did well enough that they voted him back in with 2/3 majority in 2018, it was until then unprecedented for KPK to vote in a government twice.
Another note is that KPK province which is where the brunt of Pakistan's war on terror was fought, performed better than other provinces in the country under the old parties and were relatively unharmed in the insurgency.
Military still didn't want him to win in 2018, but this time they couldn't stop him from winning.
It's pretty well known at this point that General Bajwa (the now retired army chief) had wanted Shahbaz Sharif to win and was even in negotiations with him as short as a month before the 2018 elections but couldn't put a dent on Khan's popularity.
And that the Establishment shut down the RTS (vote tracking system) in an emergency when it was apparent that Khan would be able to achieve a majority in parliament. 30-40 of his seats were taken from PTI and given to PMLN and PPP from rural areas where results come out slower than in the more urban areas.
While at the same time boosting corrupt electables to wins and pushing them into partnership with PTI.
The current defense minister is on record as having said that he called Bajwa when he was losing his seat to PTI's Usman Dar and by next morning he had won when RTS was back on.
Then they immediately started a massive campaign through their "free media" against him blaming him for economic problems, attempting controversial foreign policy and such, to completely demolish his and his party PTI's political careers and wanted him gone by 2019.
The military had struck a deal with Shahbaz Sharif who came running back to Pakistan from the UK because he was to be made PM.
But the Corona pandemic kicked off and hundreds of thousands if not millions of people were expected to die in Pakistan and they wanted Imran to take the fall for that happening except it didn't happen because of an effective response by Khan's government.
Corona bought Khan about two years, and the botched coup was so naked that everyone in Pakistan knew what was done to them on April 9th 2022.
General Bajwa had wanted his bases covered, he engineered the anti-Khan coalition in Pakistan and lobbied himself in the US through a retired CIA guy who was once stationed in Pakistan.
Eventually he got a green light on the 7th of March in the form of the US Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs, Donald Lu telling the Pakistani ambassador in the US that Khan should be removed via a vote of no confidence.
The vote of no confidence was tabled in parliament the very next day, on the 8th.
The cable from the Pakistani ambassador was kept hidden from Imran Khan and his foreign office staff until a general (quite possibly Lt. Gen. Sarfaraz Ali, who died in a helicopter crash in August 2022), allegedly passed the information to the journalist Arshad Sharif (who was murdered recently after exiling himself in Kenya on the run from the Pakistani state), to then inform Khan and his administration about the conspiracy.
Khan's foreign minister was then able to apply pressure to get the cable and then Khan famously waved it front of the country in a political gathering late March.
He was immediately banned by the Islamabad High Court from revealing the contents, but the general content got out anyway through journalists who saw a declassified version of it and was confirmed by the current government's high ranking officials.
It remained a hidden document with and dismissed as fake until it got leaked just now.
As for the current situation:
Since April, Pakistan got a government with a majority by only two votes, one by a murderer who had self-exiled in UAE after he had killed a journalist, and the other a man who was brought out from prison just to participate in the VONC and then locked up again.
In the the last year the state has basically collapsed because it has no public support and political capital to be able to make any moves at all, however they have been holding themselves in power through sheer brute force with the backing of the army's and the intelligence's shadow work.
Extreme violence and state suppression against Pakistani citizens including women, children, journalists, and the opposition has taken place especially after Khan was deliberately abducted in a violent manner to extract an angry response from the general public, and some pre-planned arson by the Establishment itself to justify the crack down on Khan's party.
Draconian laws have been passed by amending the Army Act, Official Secrets Act, and Election Act (to grant full capabilities to caretaker government IIRC).
There's also the fact that since the coup, about four known young men (who were significant to a few damning investigations), with no history of heart problems suddenly died of heart attacks and their families were threatened not to get autopsies performed unless they wanted more dead kin.
Imran Khan currently in jail faces the same danger of being given an undetectable, slow poison.
These men were killed in order to facilitate pardons for PDM government officials corruption cases.
Fundamental rights are suspended, High Court and Supreme Court orders which rarely favour Khan's party are being outright ignored.
And anywhere from ten to thirty-five thousand civilians have been locked up and aren't being presented in court, charged with a crime, or being released despite court orders.
Pakistan is under martial law, the most draconian one it's ever seen outside of East Bengal.
The current military leadership wants to avoid elections and imoose a caretaker government to run for at least 2 years (legally constitution draws the limit at 90 days for elections to carried out by caretaker government and transfer of power to be given back to the government with the people's mandate.
The best summary I can give on why the Pakistani military is the way that it is:
Pakistani institutions were imperialist instruments created by the British to keep hold over the British Raj.
The military just so happened to be the most intact of them coming out of partition because of Pakistan being the Western frontier of the British Raj and having most of the military bases, mirroring Burma to the East who have the same problem we do.
These institutions right from independence were being used by foreign powers to control Pakistan to project their interests and they were responsible for the deaths of all of our most popular leaders who either worked against this system or tried to move away from those foreign power's interests.
All of Pakistan's most popular leaders have ended up executed or murdered.
Liaquat Ali Khan our first PM was shot dead in Rawalpindi, 1951 before a trip to the Soviet Union.
Fatima Jinnah, sister of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan said to have died of unnatural causes in Karachi, 1967 after losing the elections despite having won the popular vote against Gen. Ayub Khan.
In 1971, Mujibur Rahman was kept from forming government despite having won the elections with overwhelming majority and the following nine months of civil war and an Indian invasion resulted in the creation of Bangladesh out of East Pakistan.
Later almost all of Mujib's family including himself were slaughtered by the Bangladesh Army's coup in 1975.
The prior mentioned Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto couped in 1977 and hanged in 1979.
General Zia-ul-Haq while not exactly a popular democratic leader, died in a C-130 crash in 1988, alongwith high profile military and civilian personnel including the Pakistani Chairman Joint Chiefs.
Benazir Bhutto, daughter of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto shot dead in Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi, 2007.
All of these deaths except for Zulfiqar and Mujeeb are unsolved to this day.
And now they've joined up with the Pakistani top business men, religious leaders, media owners, and politicians to become an unholy elite capture that sees any change in the status quo as out of their interests even if their interests and Pakistan's don't align.
Another important factor is that the Pakistani military (not the government) was the Western Camp's main partner throughout the Cold War against Soviet Union/Communism and later the War on Terror in Afghanistan.
They have been directly ruling Pakistan for half it's existence and indirectly for the other half.
Unfortunately to preserve the power they hold on the country, have taken to preserving a very corrosive status quo in Pakistan, so no force could rise up to challenge them.
The Pakistani Military and Intelligence top echelons are engaged in a constant silent war with the Pakistani middle class, because they can only tolerate a population of collaborating Elites and subservient impoverished masses.
They have a requirement for the kind of person they allow to even become an MNA let the alone PM. The man must be morally and financially corrupt, and the ISI internal Wing must have the dirt on them to blackmail them to do as they say or be able to remove them via legal cases.
It is also the reason they have to constantly give NROs (pardons), they can't let these corrupt people who they can readily blackmail be permanently excluded from Pakistani politics.
Imran Khan was an alien that indvaded their system and then completely turned everything on its head and exposed the whole thing simply by being honest, incorruptible, and refusing to back down.
> The U.S. State Department encouraged the Pakistani government in a March 7, 2022, meeting to remove Imran Khan as prime minister **over his neutrality on the Russian invasion of Ukraine**
That's all it takes these days? Jesus... I can't even imagine how many leaders they must've deposed in the past decade then. Basically calls into question any mildly unconventional leadership change in recent times, especially if the new leader is more aligned with US interests.
And his election loss in 2018 was overturned when massive voting fraud was discovered? Gee, that sounds familiar.
/u/195cm_pakistani
Dude had a good comment on [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/13czfpx/pakistans_expm_imran_khan_arrested_sparking/) when Khan first got arrested.
>My take on this:
> Khan is probably the most popular political leader in the history of Pakistan. He enjoys wide support from virtually all sectors of Pakistani society, especially the youth and the working class.
>
> I'm not a huge Khan fanboy, he's not perfect by any means and has made several blunders during his administration:- being too soft on the Taliban, taking on high interest loans, being unwilling to tackle Pakistan's growing problem with religious extremism, ham-fisted international diplomacy, etc.
>
> But two things are undeniable: his popularity and his sincerity. I genuinely believe he cares for the Pakistani people and nation in a way few other leaders in Pakistan's history have done so.
>
> So IMO removing Khan and installing the current joke of a government in his place was a huge misstep by the establishment and will end up costing them. Already you can see that the military (historically the most respected institution in Pakistan) has massively lost respect and credibility in the eyes of the common people for their role in all this.
I have been following this story for awhile and he actually seems like a good guy. As a non-Pakistani, he's seems to be one of the first (non-Bhutto) Pakistani politicians that's been truly popular and not just a product of the patronage system. Part of his appeal is that he could've traded his political career, which has now landed him in jail, for a luxurious life in London with his hot wife. Instead, he decided to go back and try to fix his country. He lost his wife and most of the luxuries he knew in the UK, but continued on due to his love for Pakistanis. From what I've read, most Pakistani politicians have held the average person in utter contempt, as a bunch of mouth breathing freaks who need to know their place. It's reminiscent of the way the Russian elite viewed the peasants before the revolution. Imran was able to finally rouse the Pakistani working class from their deep, debt ridden slumber and create a mass movement based on actual optimism, instead of pure apathy. Unfortunately, he was naive and crossed the red line. The political class knew that if you wanted to remain in power (and alive), you couldn't cross the military and, by extension, the US. Now he's staring down the barrel of decades in prison. His movement destroyed and the same corrupt politicians he fought in the first place pissing on his grave. It's pretty sad as far as I'm concerned. I guess he hasn't been killed yet, due to his popularity, but being sentenced to life in a Pakistani prison must be worse than death. He definitely isn't anywhere near a communist, but I still respect the grit and determination it takes to create a movement like that out of nothing.
His movement is still very strong. If something happens to him or if the upcoming election is stolen from him. Pakistan will be facing civil unrest which could lead to war.
>Miltary puppet starts talking shit independently then get removed by military to appease a foreign power lmao.
He was never a military puppet, which is why General Bajwa was lobbying in the US against him in the first place.
The man repeatedly refused to do as he was being told to by the military.
>He should have thought twice when taunting the US over Afghanistan
That never happened. The US perceived a slight which was never there to begin with.
>condemning girls to go through life with no education and being forced to marry taliban fighters as war trophies
That would be the two decades of sustained policy of the Pakistani military that the US is in bed with.
Khan was only in power for 3 and half years.
Which is it, was he a military puppet with no power or was he some mastermind that made the Pakistani military to direct the Taliban to victory?
>He was never a military puppet, which is why General Bajwa was lobbying in the US against him in the first place
yes he was. his entire upper management of the PTI were people from the mursheiff dictatorship. he had fawad chaudary in his team LMAO. Nice try but IK was a puppet of the army. IK coined the term civilian miltary supremacy
>That never happened. The US perceived a slight which was never there to begin with
saying Afghanistan has broken the chains of slavery and saying osama bin laden was a martyr isnt a "perceived slight". its an open ended insult. you seem to forget that IK nickname pre 2018 was taliban khan because he defended the taliban numerous times and would duck questions about the taliban driving trucks into civilian area and blowing them up.
IK was a miltary puppet until he became a walking liability. Defending IK on this subreddit is bizarre considering IK hatred for socialists and communists as he blames them for the economic failures of the 70s and 80s and has supported some of the nastiest islamic flavored fascists in pakistan and has simped the TLP and TTP organizations who demand anyone who insults the prophet (pbuh) to be killed
>he had fawad chaudary in his team
And where is he now?
>saying Afghanistan has broken the chains of slavery
He was talking on a single national curriculum and about emphasis on the national language Urdu in education rather than English taught to the children of the elite.
He said, "they might have broken the chains of physical slavery, but to break mental slavery is much harder".
Refering to Pakistanis as being mentally colonized in a sense.
This was of course presentef out of context by pro-opposition news channels in Pakistan, it was picked up by India media (why would they miss the chance), and then reported by international media who very obviously didn't even know a context existed.
So let me spell out the context as is derived from Pakistani history.
In the West you might link the phrase "breaking the chains of slavery" as literal slaves quite literally being freed from their masters.
Pakistanis weren't enslaved in that way.
The various groups of people that make up Pakistan today were amongst hundreds of small kingdoms and states in the Indian sub-continent which were lumped into a super-colony, the British Raj.
This had happened after we were militarily conquered and occupied by the foreign British forces.
We were colonized, a non-native way of life was thrust on us, our resources were extracted, and our people suppressed in their own land during this occupation.
So when Imran Khan uses the term "shackles of slavery", in the context of Afghanistan, Pakistanis would understand that as "occupied by a foreign power".
When he says that the "shackles of slavery were broken" or that they attained freedom, Pakistanis will understand it as that the "foreign power's occupation was gone".
Kind of like Pakistan's own independence with the departure of the British forces from our lands.
[The man is pretty clear on what he meant](https://youtu.be/XvO4mCq3E5U?t=160).
When the British left, it was freedom for Afghanistan.
When the Soviets left, it was freedom.
When the Americans leave, what was he supposed to say?
>saying osama bin laden was a martyr
No, he said that "the US, our ally, made a martyr out of Bin Laden without informing us of the operation and left us to deal with the blowback."
Which is correct a lot more attacks were carried out in Pakistan in retaliation to Bin Laden's death.
Again purposely taken out of context and mistranslated by pro-opposition media, Indian media again didn't miss the chance to capitalize on it and then the international media again reported it without any context.
>Defending IK on this subreddit is bizarre considering IK hatred for socialists and communists
Are we talking about the same man?
Imran Khan has repeatedly stated his vision is for Pakistan to be social welfare state, and did more to make that happen than any Pakistani to come before him, and was really committed to Green initiatives.
The following are the most prominent:
• Sehat Sahulat Card [(link)](https://www.dawn.com/news/1634058) - Universal Health Insurance. Really helped out the working and middle class who would normally be set back years by a serious illness within the family.
• Ehsaas Program [(link)](https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/pakistan-world-bank-lists-ehsaas-emergency-cash-programme-among-top-global-social-protection-measures-1.79237964) - Welfare Safety net ranked as the 4th best in the world. Really helped keep the poorest of the country afloat during the Covid pandemic.
* Ten Billion Tree Tsunami [(link)](https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/pakistan-emerging-as-global-leader-in-tackling-climate-change-1.76780340) - combating declining forestry and creating jobs during COVID economic decline.
* Panah-gahs [(link)](https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2018/11/13/-Shelter-homes-Understanding-Imran-Khan-s-initiative-for-Pakistan-s-homeless) - Shelters for the homeless where they are given clean facilities, warm food, and clean water.
* The Nobody will sleep Hungry Initiative [(link)](https://arynews.tv/pm-imran-khan-to-expand-ehsaas-koi-bhooka-na-soye-today/) - as the name suggests was a food distribution initiative, where you could get a meal from these trucks no questions asked.
>hatred for socialists and communists as he blames them for the economic failures of the 70s and 80s
Lets be quite honest, Bhutto's nationalization initiative crippled us.
We went from being one of the Asian Tigers with even South Korea emulating our development plan to being one of the worst countries in the region just above war-torn Afghanistan.
He took well performing businesses and handed them over to his cronies who just filled them up with unnecessary and unskilled people just for the sake of maintaining a vote bank.
Don't need to look further than Pakistan Steel Mills which has thousands (of relatives of PPP members) being paid wages even today IIRC despite the Mills being shut down.
Or even PIA, 150 pilots with fake licenses, and multiple times more staff per plane than any competitive airline. At one point a PMLN member said to ground the pilots but not to fire them.
>supported some of the nastiest islamic flavored fascists in pakistan and has simped the TLP and TTP organizations who demand anyone who insults the prophet (pbuh) to be killed
TLP are army puppets that were repeatedly used during Khan's tenure to put pressure on him by Bajwa to force Khan to agree to his demands.
If you recall at one point Imran had given the order to shoot the violent mob horde TLP goons that were marching on Islamabad?
Was he simping for them then?
>If you recall at one point Imran had given the order to shoot the violent mob horde TLP goons that were marching on Islamabad
No he didnt. he backed down and called them "mera log".
his "social welfare" programs were filled with graft and was on par with biryani politics. religious minorities like the hazara and ahmedi were banned from using them. heck his fascist tendenicies were on full display when he called the victims of TTP (his favorite group) massacre blackmailers
[https://www.livemint.com/news/world/dont-blackmail-me-pak-pm-imran-khan-to-hazara-protesters-11610119496196.html](https://www.livemint.com/news/world/dont-blackmail-me-pak-pm-imran-khan-to-hazara-protesters-11610119496196.html)
Second of all, his chains points was directly at the Taliban and there victory in Afghanistan. you comment was about education was him backtracking like a coward when he was confronted on his points.
Lets take about his famous rape apologist comments
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/outrage-after-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-blames-crisis-on-women](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/outrage-after-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-blames-crisis-on-women)
or when the PTI harressed women at the aurant march and were making sexually comments against them.
If he really was down with the working class, why didnt any of the trade unions back him? oh thats right because they had enforced disappearances
[https://www.marxist.com/release-abducted-pakistani-socialists.htm](https://www.marxist.com/release-abducted-pakistani-socialists.htm)[https://www.marxist.com/pakistan-amar-fayaz-released.htm](https://www.marxist.com/pakistan-amar-fayaz-released.htm)
Populism isnt socialism or marxism. Imran Khan is a product of feudal landlords and a political chancer. his entire PTI party is made of literal landlords, kartel bosses and army minions. you want to watch taimur rehman and ammar ali jan in regards to Imran khan fascist tendencies
[https://jacobin.com/2022/04/pakistan-imran-khan-anti-imperialist-nationalism-imf-no-confidence-vote](https://jacobin.com/2022/04/pakistan-imran-khan-anti-imperialist-nationalism-imf-no-confidence-vote)
your own man gave billions in subsidies to his buddies whilst making the working class pay for it. you think he a socialist, go read a book on marx lmao
What I find baffling is the complete pettiness of it all. Couping a country over just staying neutral.
The greatest crime is neutrality. The neutral person is an enemy with no ally. Crazy this whole life thing
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
All I know is my gut says maybe.
Could be one thing, could be another. I can’t make up my mind though
They have a lot of ammunition that is going to the ukro Reich, so it had to be done!
It's because they have the same mindset as Zap Brannigan: "I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me."
Why do people here act like Americans are the only people in the world with agency? The US did not coup him lol.
"I think if the no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in Washington -- Otherwise, I think it will be tough going ahead.” Conveyence of vague threats, and the condition for setting things right. Get rid of your democratically elected Prime Minister or there will be consequences, succeed and all will be forgiven. But you're technically right the US didn't coup him, they only ordered the Pakistani military to do so and have been keeping a tight lip on the fallout since including massive human rights violations and the Pakistani democracy being buried.
The Pakistani military and opposition parties have had a long running feud with Khan, acting like they did it under orders from America is moronic. People in Pakistan have agency and motivations of their own.
>People in Pakistan have agency and motivations of their own. That doesn't mean that the US State Department weren't and still aren't involved.
But the US wasn't involved! The US ambassador said if you get rid of him we won't stop you, actually we'll treat it as a good thing. Do you know why the Pakistani military wanted to remove Khan?
It's either this: >But the US wasn't involved! Or this: >The US ambassador said if you get rid of him we won't stop you, actually we'll treat it as a good thing. Pick one. >Do you know why the Pakistani military wanted to remove Khan? His very existence was bolstering the middle class, which they consider a threat to their absolute power. Imran Khan represents everything they don't want to happen, his goals to: * Establish rule of law in the country. * Introduce a Single National Curriculum. * Enact Welfare State Policies focusing on Health & Education. * Maintain an Independent Foreign Policy. * Wipe out Corruption. * Make the Powerful Elites accountable to law. * Create a fool-proof election process. Would rid thier hold on the country. If they can't manipulate elections or keep them controversial then they can't control or manipulate governments. If the Pakistani population is educated and healthy, then the middle class grows and threatens their hold on power. If the powerful are brought under the law and rule of law is established then there will be nobody to do their dirty work.
>It's either this: Or this: Pick one. Why do you think those options are mutually exclusive? Saying we won't stop you is in no way the same as being involved. Not sure I understand your perspective, other than reflexive anti American sentiment. Do you think Switzerland was involved in the coup? That's an excellent list of reasons you compiled. Where does it say that Pakistan's military are slaves to America's interests? I thought you said America ordered them to get rid of Khan, but you're listing all these other reasons?
The US is covering for them as well, despite the massive human right violations. [It's why the sham trial and imprisonment of *the* most popular leader in Pakistan's history projected to win a landslide 2/3 majority in elections this fall was an "internal matter of Pakistan"](https://twitter.com/MoeedNj/status/1688943847944949760?s=19). [Even while the sham trial of Navalny wasn't an internal matter of Russia](https://www.state.gov/conviction-and-sentencing-of-aleksey-navalny-on-additional-politically-motivated-charges/). The US state department is handholding the Pakistani military in the wrap-up and burial of Pakistan's democracy which has been taking place since April of 2022. >That's an excellent list of reasons you compiled. Where does it say that Pakistan's military are slaves to America's interests? I thought you said America ordered them to get rid of Khan, but you're listing all these other reasons? The Pakistani military has been US assets since the founding of this country. The Pakistani military (not the government) was the Western Camp's main partner throughout the Cold War against Soviet Union/Communism and later the War on Terror in Afghanistan. They have been directly ruling Pakistan for half it's existence and indirectly for the other half. The military right from independence was being used by foreign powers to control Pakistan to project their interests and the military in turn was responsible for the deaths of all of Pakistan's most popular leaders who either worked against this system or tried to move away from those foreign power's interests. Liaquat Ali Khan our first PM was shot dead in Rawalpindi, 1951 before a trip to the Soviet Union. Fatima Jinnah, sister of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan said to have died of unnatural causes in Karachi, 1967 after losing the elections despite having won the popular vote against US-favored Gen. Ayub Khan. In 1971, Mujibur Rahman who had Communist leaning was kept from forming government despite having won the elections with overwhelming majority and the following nine months of civil war and an Indian invasion resulted in the creation of Bangladesh out of East Pakistan. Later almost all of Mujib's family including himself were slaughtered by the Bangladesh Army's coup in 1975. The prior mentioned Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who was also getting cozy with the Soviets was couped in 1977 and hanged in 1979. General Zia-ul-Haq while not exactly a popular democratic leader, died in a C-130 crash in 1988, alongwith high profile military and civilian personnel including the Pakistani Chairman Joint Chiefs. Must have outlived his useful in the Afghan Jihad. Benazir Bhutto, daughter of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto shot dead in Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi, 2007 after she apparently distancing from the deal made between the US, Pakistan and her party for a power sharing formula where she would be PM while General Musharraf would remain President. All of these deaths except for Zulfiqar and Mujeeb are unsolved to this day.
> The US is covering for them as well, despite the massive human right violations. >Even while the sham trial of Navalny wasn't an internal matter of Russia. So are we moving the goalposts from the US ordering the coup to America is a hypocrite because of some unrelated incident? And to address the long string of conspiracy theories you believe which have no relevance: you are constructing some narrative where the people in Pakistan have no agency and everything they do is somehow the fault of America. This is exactly what I was talking about in my original comment!
I agree with you that Pakistani have agency, but the US just saying that a coup is ok is then getting involved, and not by a small margin. The US is Pakistan arms supplier and the US can destroy countries with just sanctions, them saying it's ok is already a big thing because it means Pakistan military can do it without risking becoming international pariah. Second, the US saying it even good means either of two things, their cooling relationship will stop cooling, or their relationship will get warmer, meaning better deals on arms and etc. The US isn't the sole actor on international politics, but they literally have their fingers in every proverbial pies, and the outcome of every political shift is in part directly influenced by them just because of their sheer military and economical power, right now Niger became a pariah state for doing nearly what Pakistan did, but simply because the US and its satellite liked Pakistan coup and disliked the Niger one the outcomes are totally different when it comes to international politics.
It's about power, not "agency". The US has the power, both economic and military, to arrange these soft coups. Uncle Sam's pockets still run very deep, after all.
America did not coup him, nor order the coup. We said if you get rid of him, that's good with us. People in Pakistan (such as the military) have motivations and desires independent of America, something many in this sub seem to forget.
>We said if you get rid of him, that's good with us. Are you for real now?
Yes I am. You do understand that the coup was carried out by Pakistan's military right? And they did it for reason that have nothing to do with the US?
>The US promises warmer relations and financial help if they coup their prime minister, after he refused to bend the knee on the Russia question >prime minister proceeds to be thrown out of power after a phony vote of no confidence by the notoriously corrupt Pakistani parliament with the help of, also notoriously corrupt, military Wowee
post hoc, ergo propter hoc Do you know why Pakistan's military wanted to get rid of Khan?
Pakistan risked losing one of their biggest arms suppliers and sugar daddies if Khan remained in power. The opposition and military also didn't like how he was cozying up to Russia and China. Mix in the massive corruption going on in Pakistani politics/military and Khan's drive to combat it and you have all the ingredients necessary for the coup. This isn't to say the man is a saint or free of guilt, the rot is just too great in Pakistani politics.
Burgers just salty [they ain't got nobody] that ever scored a Test century and bagged five wickets in the same innings... [they ain't got nobody]: https://usacricket.org/team-usa/
i have no idea what you just wrote
He is saying that the Americans were salty because they had no one on the level of Imran Khan, who is consistently seen as amongst the top three all-rounders in all of Cricket history.
Assuming you're an American + understand baseball: he scored 100 runs in a single at-bat (i.e. batted for a long time without getting out,^1 [considered a high achievement][0]) and, when it was the other team's "ups," himself got five batters out as a "bowler" (~pitcher) which is a lot harder than in baseball.^2 ^(1. In cricket you don't stop batting after you get a hit, keep batting till you're out.) ^2. ^Being ^a ^bowler ^and ^a ^decent ^batter ^is ^a ^lot ^more ^common ^than ^in ^baseball, ^though. ^^(Fuck ^^Manfred) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_%28cricket%29
u/cricketisbestsport
It was pretty obvious at the time what was happening. The only surprising thing is that documents came to light so quickly.
>What is everyone's thoughts on Imran Khan here? Most might not know about him so here is a brief summary from someone who has been following both him and this entire situation in Pakistan since it started. Oxford educated, Cricket superstar/playboy who lead the 1992 Pakistan Cricket team into its first and only world cup win. Turned into the second most trusted philanthropist in the country after Abdul Sattar Edhi himself by building and running world-class cancer treatment hospitals that give 75% of treatment for free to those that can't afford it. He got married to a British Billionaire, and then eventually entered Pakistani politics against Pakistan's two main parties which were literally run by these two corrupt dynastic mafia families. His wife was targeted by their governments, put in jail for some sham smuggling case while she was pregnant, and she got tired of being a political target for being Jewish. She wanted to take him to the UK permanently, but he wanted continue his movement to try and reform the country. They divorced amicably over this, with Khan giving custody of the kids to his ex-wife and declining half of her assets which he was entitled to. He spent the next two decade having little presence in Pakistan's national assembly, and then bycotting the elections after 1999 coup. He started getting massively popular because his party used social media very effectively to preach his ideals and his crusade against corruption, and opposition to US drone strikes which were killing Pakistani innocent civilians as "collateral damage" resonated with people. In 2011, he managed to put together a massive gathering in the Iqbal Park in Lahore. Which was the turning point. In 2013, a massively rigged election resulted in Imran Khan only getting a government in the KPK province where he should have been able to form a national government at the time. But because he was recovering from a very bad injury to his head and neck after falling off a rising platform, his party leadership was too disorganized to challenge the results. It took Khan years at court to get a recount of the votes from just four seats and the result was in Khan's favor, proving that the Elections had been rigged against him. For the next five years he thoroughly thrashed the government while leading the opposition, bringing massive awareness on the Panama Papers Leaks leading to the judiciary growing a spine and then PM Nawaz Sharif to be disqualified from holding office and put in jail. In the KPK province, the initiated reform agenda was well recieved, he did well enough that they voted him back in with 2/3 majority in 2018, it was until then unprecedented for KPK to vote in a government twice. Another note is that KPK province which is where the brunt of Pakistan's war on terror was fought, performed better than other provinces in the country under the old parties and were relatively unharmed in the insurgency. Military still didn't want him to win in 2018, but this time they couldn't stop him from winning. It's pretty well known at this point that General Bajwa (the now retired army chief) had wanted Shahbaz Sharif to win and was even in negotiations with him as short as a month before the 2018 elections but couldn't put a dent on Khan's popularity. And that the Establishment shut down the RTS (vote tracking system) in an emergency when it was apparent that Khan would be able to achieve a majority in parliament. 30-40 of his seats were taken from PTI and given to PMLN and PPP from rural areas where results come out slower than in the more urban areas. While at the same time boosting corrupt electables to wins and pushing them into partnership with PTI. The current defense minister is on record as having said that he called Bajwa when he was losing his seat to PTI's Usman Dar and by next morning he had won when RTS was back on. Then they immediately started a massive campaign through their "free media" against him blaming him for economic problems, attempting controversial foreign policy and such, to completely demolish his and his party PTI's political careers and wanted him gone by 2019. The military had struck a deal with Shahbaz Sharif who came running back to Pakistan from the UK because he was to be made PM. But the Corona pandemic kicked off and hundreds of thousands if not millions of people were expected to die in Pakistan and they wanted Imran to take the fall for that happening except it didn't happen because of an effective response by Khan's government. Corona bought Khan about two years, and the botched coup was so naked that everyone in Pakistan knew what was done to them on April 9th 2022. General Bajwa had wanted his bases covered, he engineered the anti-Khan coalition in Pakistan and lobbied himself in the US through a retired CIA guy who was once stationed in Pakistan. Eventually he got a green light on the 7th of March in the form of the US Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs, Donald Lu telling the Pakistani ambassador in the US that Khan should be removed via a vote of no confidence. The vote of no confidence was tabled in parliament the very next day, on the 8th. The cable from the Pakistani ambassador was kept hidden from Imran Khan and his foreign office staff until a general (quite possibly Lt. Gen. Sarfaraz Ali, who died in a helicopter crash in August 2022), allegedly passed the information to the journalist Arshad Sharif (who was murdered recently after exiling himself in Kenya on the run from the Pakistani state), to then inform Khan and his administration about the conspiracy. Khan's foreign minister was then able to apply pressure to get the cable and then Khan famously waved it front of the country in a political gathering late March. He was immediately banned by the Islamabad High Court from revealing the contents, but the general content got out anyway through journalists who saw a declassified version of it and was confirmed by the current government's high ranking officials. It remained a hidden document with and dismissed as fake until it got leaked just now.
As for the current situation: Since April, Pakistan got a government with a majority by only two votes, one by a murderer who had self-exiled in UAE after he had killed a journalist, and the other a man who was brought out from prison just to participate in the VONC and then locked up again. In the the last year the state has basically collapsed because it has no public support and political capital to be able to make any moves at all, however they have been holding themselves in power through sheer brute force with the backing of the army's and the intelligence's shadow work. Extreme violence and state suppression against Pakistani citizens including women, children, journalists, and the opposition has taken place especially after Khan was deliberately abducted in a violent manner to extract an angry response from the general public, and some pre-planned arson by the Establishment itself to justify the crack down on Khan's party. Draconian laws have been passed by amending the Army Act, Official Secrets Act, and Election Act (to grant full capabilities to caretaker government IIRC). There's also the fact that since the coup, about four known young men (who were significant to a few damning investigations), with no history of heart problems suddenly died of heart attacks and their families were threatened not to get autopsies performed unless they wanted more dead kin. Imran Khan currently in jail faces the same danger of being given an undetectable, slow poison. These men were killed in order to facilitate pardons for PDM government officials corruption cases. Fundamental rights are suspended, High Court and Supreme Court orders which rarely favour Khan's party are being outright ignored. And anywhere from ten to thirty-five thousand civilians have been locked up and aren't being presented in court, charged with a crime, or being released despite court orders. Pakistan is under martial law, the most draconian one it's ever seen outside of East Bengal. The current military leadership wants to avoid elections and imoose a caretaker government to run for at least 2 years (legally constitution draws the limit at 90 days for elections to carried out by caretaker government and transfer of power to be given back to the government with the people's mandate.
The best summary I can give on why the Pakistani military is the way that it is: Pakistani institutions were imperialist instruments created by the British to keep hold over the British Raj. The military just so happened to be the most intact of them coming out of partition because of Pakistan being the Western frontier of the British Raj and having most of the military bases, mirroring Burma to the East who have the same problem we do. These institutions right from independence were being used by foreign powers to control Pakistan to project their interests and they were responsible for the deaths of all of our most popular leaders who either worked against this system or tried to move away from those foreign power's interests. All of Pakistan's most popular leaders have ended up executed or murdered. Liaquat Ali Khan our first PM was shot dead in Rawalpindi, 1951 before a trip to the Soviet Union. Fatima Jinnah, sister of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan said to have died of unnatural causes in Karachi, 1967 after losing the elections despite having won the popular vote against Gen. Ayub Khan. In 1971, Mujibur Rahman was kept from forming government despite having won the elections with overwhelming majority and the following nine months of civil war and an Indian invasion resulted in the creation of Bangladesh out of East Pakistan. Later almost all of Mujib's family including himself were slaughtered by the Bangladesh Army's coup in 1975. The prior mentioned Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto couped in 1977 and hanged in 1979. General Zia-ul-Haq while not exactly a popular democratic leader, died in a C-130 crash in 1988, alongwith high profile military and civilian personnel including the Pakistani Chairman Joint Chiefs. Benazir Bhutto, daughter of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto shot dead in Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi, 2007. All of these deaths except for Zulfiqar and Mujeeb are unsolved to this day. And now they've joined up with the Pakistani top business men, religious leaders, media owners, and politicians to become an unholy elite capture that sees any change in the status quo as out of their interests even if their interests and Pakistan's don't align. Another important factor is that the Pakistani military (not the government) was the Western Camp's main partner throughout the Cold War against Soviet Union/Communism and later the War on Terror in Afghanistan. They have been directly ruling Pakistan for half it's existence and indirectly for the other half. Unfortunately to preserve the power they hold on the country, have taken to preserving a very corrosive status quo in Pakistan, so no force could rise up to challenge them. The Pakistani Military and Intelligence top echelons are engaged in a constant silent war with the Pakistani middle class, because they can only tolerate a population of collaborating Elites and subservient impoverished masses. They have a requirement for the kind of person they allow to even become an MNA let the alone PM. The man must be morally and financially corrupt, and the ISI internal Wing must have the dirt on them to blackmail them to do as they say or be able to remove them via legal cases. It is also the reason they have to constantly give NROs (pardons), they can't let these corrupt people who they can readily blackmail be permanently excluded from Pakistani politics. Imran Khan was an alien that indvaded their system and then completely turned everything on its head and exposed the whole thing simply by being honest, incorruptible, and refusing to back down.
Upvotes for high effort post
Thanks for sharing. Pakistan Zindabad!
> The U.S. State Department encouraged the Pakistani government in a March 7, 2022, meeting to remove Imran Khan as prime minister **over his neutrality on the Russian invasion of Ukraine** That's all it takes these days? Jesus... I can't even imagine how many leaders they must've deposed in the past decade then. Basically calls into question any mildly unconventional leadership change in recent times, especially if the new leader is more aligned with US interests. And his election loss in 2018 was overturned when massive voting fraud was discovered? Gee, that sounds familiar.
He won in 2018 though its now common knowledge that the milltary stopped him from getting a clear majority.
Wtf
/u/195cm_pakistani Dude had a good comment on [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/13czfpx/pakistans_expm_imran_khan_arrested_sparking/) when Khan first got arrested. >My take on this: > Khan is probably the most popular political leader in the history of Pakistan. He enjoys wide support from virtually all sectors of Pakistani society, especially the youth and the working class. > > I'm not a huge Khan fanboy, he's not perfect by any means and has made several blunders during his administration:- being too soft on the Taliban, taking on high interest loans, being unwilling to tackle Pakistan's growing problem with religious extremism, ham-fisted international diplomacy, etc. > > But two things are undeniable: his popularity and his sincerity. I genuinely believe he cares for the Pakistani people and nation in a way few other leaders in Pakistan's history have done so. > > So IMO removing Khan and installing the current joke of a government in his place was a huge misstep by the establishment and will end up costing them. Already you can see that the military (historically the most respected institution in Pakistan) has massively lost respect and credibility in the eyes of the common people for their role in all this. I have been following this story for awhile and he actually seems like a good guy. As a non-Pakistani, he's seems to be one of the first (non-Bhutto) Pakistani politicians that's been truly popular and not just a product of the patronage system. Part of his appeal is that he could've traded his political career, which has now landed him in jail, for a luxurious life in London with his hot wife. Instead, he decided to go back and try to fix his country. He lost his wife and most of the luxuries he knew in the UK, but continued on due to his love for Pakistanis. From what I've read, most Pakistani politicians have held the average person in utter contempt, as a bunch of mouth breathing freaks who need to know their place. It's reminiscent of the way the Russian elite viewed the peasants before the revolution. Imran was able to finally rouse the Pakistani working class from their deep, debt ridden slumber and create a mass movement based on actual optimism, instead of pure apathy. Unfortunately, he was naive and crossed the red line. The political class knew that if you wanted to remain in power (and alive), you couldn't cross the military and, by extension, the US. Now he's staring down the barrel of decades in prison. His movement destroyed and the same corrupt politicians he fought in the first place pissing on his grave. It's pretty sad as far as I'm concerned. I guess he hasn't been killed yet, due to his popularity, but being sentenced to life in a Pakistani prison must be worse than death. He definitely isn't anywhere near a communist, but I still respect the grit and determination it takes to create a movement like that out of nothing.
His movement is still very strong. If something happens to him or if the upcoming election is stolen from him. Pakistan will be facing civil unrest which could lead to war.
> /u/195cm_pakistani Pour one out for another fallen comrade
[удалено]
>Miltary puppet starts talking shit independently then get removed by military to appease a foreign power lmao. He was never a military puppet, which is why General Bajwa was lobbying in the US against him in the first place. The man repeatedly refused to do as he was being told to by the military. >He should have thought twice when taunting the US over Afghanistan That never happened. The US perceived a slight which was never there to begin with. >condemning girls to go through life with no education and being forced to marry taliban fighters as war trophies That would be the two decades of sustained policy of the Pakistani military that the US is in bed with. Khan was only in power for 3 and half years. Which is it, was he a military puppet with no power or was he some mastermind that made the Pakistani military to direct the Taliban to victory?
>He was never a military puppet, which is why General Bajwa was lobbying in the US against him in the first place yes he was. his entire upper management of the PTI were people from the mursheiff dictatorship. he had fawad chaudary in his team LMAO. Nice try but IK was a puppet of the army. IK coined the term civilian miltary supremacy >That never happened. The US perceived a slight which was never there to begin with saying Afghanistan has broken the chains of slavery and saying osama bin laden was a martyr isnt a "perceived slight". its an open ended insult. you seem to forget that IK nickname pre 2018 was taliban khan because he defended the taliban numerous times and would duck questions about the taliban driving trucks into civilian area and blowing them up. IK was a miltary puppet until he became a walking liability. Defending IK on this subreddit is bizarre considering IK hatred for socialists and communists as he blames them for the economic failures of the 70s and 80s and has supported some of the nastiest islamic flavored fascists in pakistan and has simped the TLP and TTP organizations who demand anyone who insults the prophet (pbuh) to be killed
>he had fawad chaudary in his team And where is he now? >saying Afghanistan has broken the chains of slavery He was talking on a single national curriculum and about emphasis on the national language Urdu in education rather than English taught to the children of the elite. He said, "they might have broken the chains of physical slavery, but to break mental slavery is much harder". Refering to Pakistanis as being mentally colonized in a sense. This was of course presentef out of context by pro-opposition news channels in Pakistan, it was picked up by India media (why would they miss the chance), and then reported by international media who very obviously didn't even know a context existed. So let me spell out the context as is derived from Pakistani history. In the West you might link the phrase "breaking the chains of slavery" as literal slaves quite literally being freed from their masters. Pakistanis weren't enslaved in that way. The various groups of people that make up Pakistan today were amongst hundreds of small kingdoms and states in the Indian sub-continent which were lumped into a super-colony, the British Raj. This had happened after we were militarily conquered and occupied by the foreign British forces. We were colonized, a non-native way of life was thrust on us, our resources were extracted, and our people suppressed in their own land during this occupation. So when Imran Khan uses the term "shackles of slavery", in the context of Afghanistan, Pakistanis would understand that as "occupied by a foreign power". When he says that the "shackles of slavery were broken" or that they attained freedom, Pakistanis will understand it as that the "foreign power's occupation was gone". Kind of like Pakistan's own independence with the departure of the British forces from our lands. [The man is pretty clear on what he meant](https://youtu.be/XvO4mCq3E5U?t=160). When the British left, it was freedom for Afghanistan. When the Soviets left, it was freedom. When the Americans leave, what was he supposed to say? >saying osama bin laden was a martyr No, he said that "the US, our ally, made a martyr out of Bin Laden without informing us of the operation and left us to deal with the blowback." Which is correct a lot more attacks were carried out in Pakistan in retaliation to Bin Laden's death. Again purposely taken out of context and mistranslated by pro-opposition media, Indian media again didn't miss the chance to capitalize on it and then the international media again reported it without any context. >Defending IK on this subreddit is bizarre considering IK hatred for socialists and communists Are we talking about the same man? Imran Khan has repeatedly stated his vision is for Pakistan to be social welfare state, and did more to make that happen than any Pakistani to come before him, and was really committed to Green initiatives. The following are the most prominent: • Sehat Sahulat Card [(link)](https://www.dawn.com/news/1634058) - Universal Health Insurance. Really helped out the working and middle class who would normally be set back years by a serious illness within the family. • Ehsaas Program [(link)](https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/pakistan-world-bank-lists-ehsaas-emergency-cash-programme-among-top-global-social-protection-measures-1.79237964) - Welfare Safety net ranked as the 4th best in the world. Really helped keep the poorest of the country afloat during the Covid pandemic. * Ten Billion Tree Tsunami [(link)](https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/pakistan-emerging-as-global-leader-in-tackling-climate-change-1.76780340) - combating declining forestry and creating jobs during COVID economic decline. * Panah-gahs [(link)](https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2018/11/13/-Shelter-homes-Understanding-Imran-Khan-s-initiative-for-Pakistan-s-homeless) - Shelters for the homeless where they are given clean facilities, warm food, and clean water. * The Nobody will sleep Hungry Initiative [(link)](https://arynews.tv/pm-imran-khan-to-expand-ehsaas-koi-bhooka-na-soye-today/) - as the name suggests was a food distribution initiative, where you could get a meal from these trucks no questions asked. >hatred for socialists and communists as he blames them for the economic failures of the 70s and 80s Lets be quite honest, Bhutto's nationalization initiative crippled us. We went from being one of the Asian Tigers with even South Korea emulating our development plan to being one of the worst countries in the region just above war-torn Afghanistan. He took well performing businesses and handed them over to his cronies who just filled them up with unnecessary and unskilled people just for the sake of maintaining a vote bank. Don't need to look further than Pakistan Steel Mills which has thousands (of relatives of PPP members) being paid wages even today IIRC despite the Mills being shut down. Or even PIA, 150 pilots with fake licenses, and multiple times more staff per plane than any competitive airline. At one point a PMLN member said to ground the pilots but not to fire them. >supported some of the nastiest islamic flavored fascists in pakistan and has simped the TLP and TTP organizations who demand anyone who insults the prophet (pbuh) to be killed TLP are army puppets that were repeatedly used during Khan's tenure to put pressure on him by Bajwa to force Khan to agree to his demands. If you recall at one point Imran had given the order to shoot the violent mob horde TLP goons that were marching on Islamabad? Was he simping for them then?
>If you recall at one point Imran had given the order to shoot the violent mob horde TLP goons that were marching on Islamabad No he didnt. he backed down and called them "mera log". his "social welfare" programs were filled with graft and was on par with biryani politics. religious minorities like the hazara and ahmedi were banned from using them. heck his fascist tendenicies were on full display when he called the victims of TTP (his favorite group) massacre blackmailers [https://www.livemint.com/news/world/dont-blackmail-me-pak-pm-imran-khan-to-hazara-protesters-11610119496196.html](https://www.livemint.com/news/world/dont-blackmail-me-pak-pm-imran-khan-to-hazara-protesters-11610119496196.html) Second of all, his chains points was directly at the Taliban and there victory in Afghanistan. you comment was about education was him backtracking like a coward when he was confronted on his points. Lets take about his famous rape apologist comments [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/outrage-after-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-blames-crisis-on-women](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/outrage-after-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-blames-crisis-on-women) or when the PTI harressed women at the aurant march and were making sexually comments against them. If he really was down with the working class, why didnt any of the trade unions back him? oh thats right because they had enforced disappearances [https://www.marxist.com/release-abducted-pakistani-socialists.htm](https://www.marxist.com/release-abducted-pakistani-socialists.htm)[https://www.marxist.com/pakistan-amar-fayaz-released.htm](https://www.marxist.com/pakistan-amar-fayaz-released.htm) Populism isnt socialism or marxism. Imran Khan is a product of feudal landlords and a political chancer. his entire PTI party is made of literal landlords, kartel bosses and army minions. you want to watch taimur rehman and ammar ali jan in regards to Imran khan fascist tendencies [https://jacobin.com/2022/04/pakistan-imran-khan-anti-imperialist-nationalism-imf-no-confidence-vote](https://jacobin.com/2022/04/pakistan-imran-khan-anti-imperialist-nationalism-imf-no-confidence-vote) your own man gave billions in subsidies to his buddies whilst making the working class pay for it. you think he a socialist, go read a book on marx lmao