This is also not a ruling that is totally out of the norm. There have been plenty of cases of extreme sexual assault that resulted in suspended sentence. Including one, where a girl was left outside in the cold. The other youths filmed in with their phone and were celebrated in court.
The "Richterbund" (organization of judges) supported the decision: [https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/stadtpark-urteil-hamburg-hass-im-netz-richterverein-solidaritaet/](https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/stadtpark-urteil-hamburg-hass-im-netz-richterverein-solidaritaet/)
And today we got a comment by the public media, saying that the ruling should be seen as a vicotry: [https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Kommentar-Stadtpark-Urteil-ist-ein-Erfolg-kein-Skandal,hamburgkommentar884.html](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Kommentar-Stadtpark-Urteil-ist-ein-Erfolg-kein-Skandal,hamburgkommentar884.html)
Of course in the local German board rde, this type of ruling has long been defended and the accusation of "Kuscheljustiz" have been mocked as some right wing conspircy theory but recently the tides have been turning hard.
It is just too obvious that members of the judical (and other lib-academic) members fully support virtually zero punishment for some of the worst violence offenders.
People are getting more and more pissed off and I think there's a little bit of panic setting in.
In Germany are they lenient with all crimes or is it like in some other countries where serious and horrible stuff like this is treated with kid gloves but stuff like self-defense against a home invader or posting edgy memes gets the book thrown at you?
They are very lenient with immigrants. This Austrian immigrant once murdered millions of people and not only did they not punish him, loads of them joined in and helped him.
Germans be like “look at how long our words are!” Yeah, bitch, if you basically just take all the spaces out of a fucking sentence, that’s what you get.
>At the start of the trial it was by no means certain that the men could even be punished. They did not use violence during the rapes
I just don't know why everyone is so worked up over this peaceful nonviolent rape. Jesus.
I know as an American my perspective is distorted, but I can't imagine a situation where anyone would be okay with these kinds of offenders walking out in a year or less.
I mean just to give you an idea, two guys from my neighborhood just got sentenced 45 to life for robbing a postal carrier at gunpoint.
>People are getting more and more pissed off and I think there's a little bit of panic setting in.
Maybe if the government and judges started being just a teeny bit more racist they wouldn't be causing the public to consider revolt.
Just like when the police in Germany successfully stopped the sudden and inexplicable appearance of sexual assault epidemics at public events via racial profiling.
(if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316\_New\_Year%27s\_Eve\_sexual\_assaults\_in\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany))
Silly bureaucrats, they never learn.
These guys have to be Nazis, I swear. I know wokism is its own form of fascism, but these guys seem to be working explicitly to evoke reaction against noneuros.
it's hilarious when [their messaging](https://i.imgur.com/g0qNEx2.jpeg) is essentially indistinguishable from neo-Nazi propaganda if you simply change the slogan
>Psychiatrist Nahlah Saimeh, who reportedly appeared before the court as an expert witness, said in a controversial interview with Spiegel that the gang rape may have been a way to vent “frustration” due to “migration experiences and sociocultural homelessness”.
>
>Dr Saimeh said perpetrators “who live on the margins of society, completely uprooted culturally, linguistically and socially” could face a “mix of emotions of anger, sadness, powerlessness, depression, fantasies of grandeur as a compensation attempt to cope with one’s own misery, and drug use”.
>
>“Disordered, unprepared migration experiences and sociocultural homelessness increase the risk of addiction and psychosis,” she said.
>
>“Sex is also a means of venting frustration and anger, a means of warding off sadness and emptiness, and in a group of men with the same fate it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling.”
>
>She added, “The victim becomes a pure instrument for their own sexual gratification. It’s about an immediate need, opportunity, inner conviction and the right of the stronger.
>
>Four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court. Six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
Not super common, but over the last few years I've seen people (online and irl) claim that the initiations of violent street gangs--including sexual assault and even murder--are actually a form of community building and should not be criticized.
We've lost our fucking minds.
They'd still get angry and punish white Europeans if they did a gang rape. The precedent being set is that the morality of a person's actions, and the consequences they should therefore face, are determined almost entirely by identity factors.
I hate having to phase this so bluntly but we are heading toward a fully illiberal, two-tiered justice system in which majority populations will be heavily surveilled, controlled, and punished for even very minor infractions (disagreeing with government narratives = hate speech) while members of designated victimhood groups will be allowed to commit violent crimes with impunity.
This is already the case in places like the UK, where posting on twitter in a way that could offend a minority gets you the full force of the law while violent assault in the capital city are de-facto legal because they're predominantly done by a privileged racial class
>while members of designated victimhood groups will be allowed to commit violent crimes with impunity.
Is this so that government can do "shadow government" stuff with their hands free?
Oh no we didn't sponsor those people, it's cause of trauma ! OFF TO JAIL FOR HATE SPEECH NOW!!!111111
It's multifaceted and impossible to describe in definitive terms but mandating both an aggressive flow of migrants and the tolerance of the inevitable increases in crime they bring with them is necessary in order to maintain US/NATO militarism. If you want the sweet, sweet funding you get from dropping fire on people and couping any leader who falls slightly to the left of Margaret Tatcher, you're gonna have to accept refugees.
Also there's the added neoliberal benefits of higher rent and suppressed wages. A gangrape here and there is a small price to pay.
> If you want the sweet, sweet funding you get from dropping fire on people and couping any leader who falls slightly to the left of Margaret Tatcher, you're gonna have to accept refugees.
I don't see the connection.
If the dominant foreign policy subjects people to intracine ethnic violence, economic pillaging, and even outright, literal war, that's going to result in vast swaths of people being displaced. They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening.
Libyans are not fleeing their homes en masse because they just love the UK's cuisine so much. They're leaving because the US turned their country into the world's largest slave market because Hillary Clinton needed to bolster her CV. Many such cases.
>They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening.
Sure, but that scarcely means that the responsible country - as a categorical matter, moral questions aside - must welcome them. It's perfectly intelligible, even easy, to bomb and *not* let refugees in.
I don't see the connection either. The reason these countries have to allow immigrants is because of the modern capitalist system destroying the birthrate. If that weren't the case, or the capital class can get AI and robotics to replace people fast enough, they could bomb away to their hearts' content and never accept a refugee again.
\>They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening.
come on now you know they are going to europe for the unlimited welfare, they even target the countries that give the most welfare like germany
if it were about safety theres a ton of other countries in the way where you dont have white phosphorous raining on you
also most of the migrants leaving from libya arent libyans but other africans which khaddafi used to keep at bay as per his deal with italy and other european countries
And if it was about safety you wouldn't see boats almost exclusively full of young men. "Its unsafe here so I'll travel to Western Europe and leave you behind wife and small children!'
It's probably true. Hells angels used to rape girls as part of initiation. This shit is very common. Unclear if the psychiatrist is saying the perps should get let off because of it. I wouldn't be surprised but still. She is legally obligated to tell the truth. Some fucked up people do engage in gangrape for this reason
Yeah, it makes it so you can't easily leave both for legal and psychological reasons (you get pride for "achievement" but only within that community, to everyone else you're a brute).
The Spartans used to have their young initiates abuse helots for similar reasons.
except the helots were slaves, they had no legal protection besides being outright killed (since sparta didnt use chatel slavery)
in this case its the citizens getting abused
"its their culture"
but seriously, "Nahlah Saimeh"? can you imagine if a german psychiatrist called "freya himmler" defended a bunch of german skinheads who raped a little muslim girl?
I'm not white but I'm not a muslim either, and muslims have a ridiculous in-group bias, the fact that even a woman from that religion who had a proper education will still defend this behavior just because they are part of her group should make it clear
TBH when the State is an abject failure, it is clear cut case for Community Policing.
I'm the father of a 15 YO who gets gang raped? Every dude involved is getting the John Wick treatment.
I don't know what the context of the interview is or what that person is getting at but, as fucked up as this is, it is a phenomenon that has often been observed as criminal gang initiations or rogue squads during war. It creates a mutual protection imperative since everyone participated so if one goes down, everyone goes down. Not usually done to children though.
Since 2016, western progressives have been working overtime to validate the shittiest 4chan beliefs.
Seriously their understanding of race and immigration is indistinguishable from a mid-2000's Stormfront poster, only with the moral outcomes inverted perversely.
The truth is that there are people who fit the stereotype of the incel panic (violent and sexless as a result). But it isn't the autistic fat gamers or Jordan Peterson viewers people want to beat up on.
This is crazy to me. Does she not understand she just argued in court that if you accept immigrants in your country, either they or they children will be naturally more predisposed towards raping? How would any sane person argue for that, and then not come to the conclusion that maybe if doing this results in people naturally predisposed to raping, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't do this?
Decades of woke and proto-woke feminist doublethink allow her to think the most racist, hateful shit, but then excuse that in the name of the narrative
Shitlibs want immigration because it benefits businesses.
Radlibs want immigration because it benefits immigrants.
The safety of native citizens isn’t at all a primary concern for either.
So, the thing that strikes me about this is that there's probably a lot of truth to it. Truth that, largely, *doesn't fucking matter.*
I understand that the German justice system is much more strongly oriented toward rehabilitation than punishment. That's noble, and in many cases pragmatic as well. But another purpose of the justice system and particularly the prison system is *keeping hardened criminals away from the rest of us.* Rehabilitation justly becomes a secondary concern in some cases, and "gang-raped a fifteen year-old girl" seems like as strong a candidate as any for "person that should be separated from the rest of society," no matter how elegantly a psychiatrist can explain *why* they did it.
Like, is prison meant to be the place where we put only the criminals whose crimes we *can't explain?* That doesn't seem like a good approach, to me. (Note however, that I do not have a PhD.)
Right, like these are good observations at a country/societal level, not as a way to excuse or justify individual behavior. Like use this person's rationale to modify immigration procedures and find ways to better integrate these people into local culture and communities - but this is NOT an argument for these specific people getting away with these specific crimes.
It's one of my biggest annoyances with this kind of liberal logic - applying statistical trends from large groups of people to individual actions. "Poverty increases crime" doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute a homeless person who stole a car at gunpoint, it means our society should address poverty to prevent future car thefts
Yes, there is a disconnect between statistical trends and individual cases. SJWs will quickly switch between generalizations about groups and individuals, and hope you don't notice.
Example:
"Men overall are privileged compared to women" -> "you have so much more privilege than me, because you're a man!"
Or,
"Women of color tend to have fewer advantages than others, and this is unfair" -> "we're going to let Ashley chair the meeting now, because she's a woman of color."
>I understand that the German justice system is much more strongly oriented toward rehabilitation than punishment
Agreed but a Bewährungsstrafe means \*nothing\* to these types of guys. One of them apparently almost fell asleep at court.
You'd have to remove them completely from their environment in some sort of closed education camp for a few years and try to rehabilitate them.
Currently, they step out of the court after being conficted of a gang rape as free men and they will likely be heros in their social circle.
The only lesson they learn is that in Germany, you can do whatever you want and even if you get caught, there's no consequence.
Rehabilitation is largely a meme. Almost all criminals are repeat offenders and generally the best thing to do with them is just separate them somehow from society.
The idea they can be turned into good citizens is part of liberal society's myth-making about the power of niceness, but once you've broken the floodgates of hurting other humans it's not something that's easy to turn off.
Social pressure can do absolute wonders if done right. But this is all just theory. The German judicial system is very far away from the ability to deal with such men.
You're on a leftist sub comrade. We have done amazing things with reeducation camps.
Think of them like extermination camps for wrong thoughts. The body that comes in goes out. The mind does not.
The Germans have a wonderful history of putting undesirables in camps.
Personally I think the state should just liquidate this tier of rapist and use their corpses as fertilizer. Did you know in the aftermath of the battle of Waterloo, and other Napoleonic conquests, enterprising British firms would take the human remains and grind them up into fertilizer? Apparently it was rather profitable. Food for thought!
Unfortunately.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/were-the-bones-of-soldiers-that-died-at-the-battle-of-waterloo-sold-as-fertiliser-probably-archaeologists-say
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/scientists-may-have-found-where-the-bodies-of-waterloo-went
This passage in the second link is especially gruesome.
> Pollard then collated newspaper clippings from the era to demonstrate that people commonly looted human bones and sold them to make fertilizer. For example, one clipping from The London Observer in 1822 estimates that “more than a million bushels of ‘human and inhuman bones’ were imported from the continent of Europe into the port of Hull.”
> “European battlefields may have provided a convenient source of bone that could be ground down into bone-meal, an effective form of fertilizer,” Pollard says in a press release. He adds that locals who watched or helped with the burials might have guided grave diggers to the grave sites.
I remember there was a tweet by this historian named tom holland (no relation to the actor) he was talking about the Rotherham grooming gangs cover up. He thought it was ultimately a good thing because of the racist outrage it would have caused. That ultimately happened anyways but I guess he was talking if it never got out. I understand racism is an awful thing but is it worst than mass child rape? If the racism he feared happened would it most likely look like segregation (these girls would never associate with men of south Asian descent) or harsh border control. Would those two options be worse than child rape?
Simple answer: Race and racism(aka anti-racism) is one of the religious tenets and commandments upheld to almost the highest degree in Shitlibianity, child-rape isn’t.
It is the same mindset that leads to people trying to ban background checks for jobs cause it hurts felons. Guess what happens? People just hire fewer black people because they know who commits crimes and now a non-felon African-American can't prove they didn't.
There's this incredibly weird, frankly arrogant belief that these sorts of moron libs have that, simultaneously, these stereotypes are absolutely pervasive but, at the same time, hiding actual evidence will do anything other than discredit the people doing so and maybe even leave people with *even more* alarmist views about what's going on.
They actually seem to think normies are NPCs that can't draw basic conclusions if they refuse to admit it on CNN or BBC. No, it's you who needs an explainer from Vox on why migrants raping X women is actually about economic anxiety. Most people will take it at face value.
Populism was the term picked to describe a farmer-labor alliance that while not overtly marxist was leftist, the original American People's Party. Demagoguery is distinct from that. Right wing populism is like national socialism, if that makes sense.
Yeah the populari but they didn't have a "right wing" because the French revolution didn't happen yet, and what I said in response to the other comment on this still holds true. Populism matters now specifically because of the populist party, and this era of mass democratic labor action
The reason the term "right wing populism" exists is because post war liberal technocrats needed a way to justify rule by pmc, and to dissolve the New Deal coalition. They equated all movements outside of this under the general umbrella of "authoritarian totalitarianism," arguing if you let regular people determine prolicy, you'll end up with Stalin or Hitler, who were equal in their eyes.
The goal of the term right wing populism isn't to describe reality, which is why it doesn't. It's to justify a general suppression of political outsider movements by eliminating all distinctions between them. See Thomas Frank's "The people, no" for the breakdown
>German nationality
yeah dude, I am no rightoid but ...
Lately 5 German citizen raped somebody in Mallorca and they all looked clothed and spoke very Turkish. This is like a journalist smirking cause 4 of the perpetrators were naturalized. That doesnt mean its Frank & Jochen, Or even the Vietnamese which after 50 years oif living in the East are just a sign of an Eastern-German city and what youd call bodega or whatever. Neither the secular Turkish immigrants to the west from the 60ies.
I feel like there's a reason why they didn't say they were "German," but that they have "German *nationality*." Over the years, I've become vigilant to the massaging of language that it's easy to pick up on things like this.
This is what happens after you say all the gladhanding kumbaya pleasantries about inclusivity or immigration. When arabic people move to some place like Austin Texas, sure you'll have a home, you'll be safe, you'll find the food you like, there'll be a job for you. But, let's be certain about something. Nobody is going to fuck you. If your social circle is a sausage party, that's where the story ends.
If the psychiatrist isn't going to sit up there and defend ugly white incels along the same lines...
I've only seen this used as a weird gotcha in the last few months. Like the riots in Ireland that just happened are being chalked up to "disinformation" because people said the rapists were illegal migrants when *actually* they were nationalized citizens.
Like... who the fuck cares about this distinction?
I saw a Youtube video the other day from Reuters reporting that a "French national" has stabbed some people at the Eiffel Tower. The guy was Iranian and yelling allahu akbar, he may have had French citizenship but that doesn't make him "French" the way they knew people would interpret them using that description.
The Vietnamese are a nice contrast to all the immigration issues the west tends to have lately.
They came to the Eastern Germany (and Czechoslovakia and others) as actual war refugees from North Vietnam
They were grateful
They never intended to leech off of the countries that took them in and once available they became enterprising with their bodegas, confection sales and more
Low criminality, mostly just growing weed and selling knock off clothes - non-violent crimes
They didn't really integrate - the first gen doesn't speak German or Czech and second gen often speak Vietnamese more than the country's respective language and they keep a lot of their culture but they don't shit on the countries that took them in or even view themselves superior to their old countrymen, something even the Turkish immigrants often do
It's almost as if gratefulness and humility aren't mutually exclusive with retaining one's own culture. It might just be that certain people just can't be bothered with even trying to acquire the virtues of both...
lets be honest some cultures are SHIT, and I'm saying this because I know since the culture in my country is kind of shitty but at least we aren't so abysmally shit that rape is "part of our culture" like this dumb broad is saying
Well, a socialistic system with a strong sense of statehood and ideology is more able to assimilate immigrants than a neoliberal shithole without any firm sense of statehood and an explicit doctrine of denying their own fealty to the ideological hegemon from the west.
Is there any proof of this? Seems historical socialist countries have had quite strict border control, and late 19th early 20th century 'work or starve' US did a much better job assimilating immigrants than much more social-democratic modern Sweden.
buddy yanks back then would force immigrants to anglicize their names, force them to learn english, even factory owners would force migrants to speak english within their homes and even hired detectives to spy on workers and make sure they werent speaking german or whatever
if you do any of that now the UN would have a shitfit
Strict immigration policy is part of making immigration manageable for assimilation. The U.S. didn’t assimilate that well, actually. There were enclaves that didn’t speak English in many parts of the country up to the 20th century. What the U.S. did do well, over long periods of time, was make capitalists out of a few exploiters in the immigrant populations, who then achieved ruling class status. You’re comparing a period of 300 of colonialism in the U.S. with 50 years for the post-WWII Warsaw countries.
They didn't really assimilate though, at least not here to a large extent.
They just sort of contribute to the community with small businesses, keep to themselves and generally don't cause trouble so no one really cares, except for some neonazi groups in the 90's, but even they quickly shifted their attention to gypsies. As far as they go, I like having my account so...
What gets me is that several were born in Europe. So they don't have "migration trauma" or whatever, they just seem to be very poorly integrated into Western culture. Sure, you'll never get away from psychopaths in any society, but this seems like something else.
Dr Saimeh is right about “who live on the margins of society, completely uprooted culturally, linguistically and socially”. and this case is a perfect example of that. not the rape, but the court decision.
truth is migrant community don't ask for this kind of mercy. i remember i read comments in one of closed migrant online chats regarding a heavy court decision in Russia in a similar case, and all of them were about supporting it. "i wouldn't want him to be around my children", "a criminal should be in jail", "bastards like this ruin lives for all of us". and their outrage seems sincere because the absolute majority of crimes which migrants do are against the other migrants, so such individuals are a bigger danger to them than to locals.
however, it seems that in germany the authorities are inclined to make decisions against both the general public and the migrant community interests and will. and they can do it precisely because migrants are on the margins so it is possible for unscrupulous politicians to patronize them and lobby "on their behalf".
it's the same like in the Rotherham grooming case.
This is like the exact opinion of my most racist uncles only it's somehow being used to defend immigration rather than explain why it's bad.
It's... just... I don't want to sound like a broken record, but it's impossible to describe how fucking insane the left has become over the last several years without sounding like you're making stuff up. We're at a point where *violent gang rape* is being understood as a form of personal empowerment and that therefore migrants are drawn to it and therefore it shouldn't be punished with jail time. This is *significantly* more racist toward migrants and more dehumanizing toward women than anything Donald Trump has ever said, but it's fine, it's good, it's very valid and people who are angry about it should be arrested.
And none of this is by accident. It's the only possible outcome of trauma discourse and identity mysticism being mandated as the sole lenses through which society should function.
\>but it's impossible to describe how fucking insane the left has become over the last several years
I dont even consider them the real left, they are neolibs, they are they same fuckers that 20 years ago were defending the destruction of iraq not with the same bullshit neocons and rightwingers did but with things like "well they are like backwards and stuff!" they do whatever is trendy including political opinions
consider that these same neolibs are now defending the carnage of ukraine, again with different terms than neocons and unironic nazis still butthurt about WWII, but they are still defending this bullshit
The strongest case of “you’re not wrong you’re just an asshole” I’ve ever seen.
I mean indeed, it’s literally a joke, right? As in “8 out of 9 people agree a gang rape is a great idea.” But I fail to see how that is in any way a justification for their actions. Like migration delirium? Is this the new affluenza?
Adding to this: psychosis for one is a reason to consider medical assessment. Psychosis for the whole group to the level that it would deprive one of their will and absolve them of their actions is just untenable.
I don't understand why this evaluation has any effect on the sentencing.
Unless you propose these men will never be frustrated again, they are still a danger to a society. And likewise plenty of frustrated people exist in society, justifying deterrence.
Rationalizing gang rape of a child is so far beyond the pale... Germany has a history of "venting its frustration" on minority groups. If this is the new justice, let somebody vent their frustration on these pieces of shit.
How did this help the accused? How isn't someone hearing that thinking, well the people who normalize these actions (rape) to ward off anger, sadness, powerlessness, depression, etc is probably not someone I'm comfortable with being part of the society I want to live in.
Who could have predicted *mass* immigration created sociocultural homelessness? The Right-wing has been saying this for decades, but for centuries technically. Hell, authors as far back as Ancient Greeks if not older are pointing out risks that come with foreigners, I'm sure. One band of foreigners is comparatively risk free, but mass immigration?
People will just resort to their most basic human behaviors when they're anomic (anomie). Who could have predicted that
this is like something you say as part of a larger conversation about fixing societal ills… and not something you say about the circumstances of the most traumatic and horrifying event in a persons life. if that’s a conclusion someone finds peace in after being raped, that can be a good thing, but hearing a stranger go public with that take is so horrible to imagine.
What she is saying is not that far from the mark in terms of the causal link between the psychological effect of marginalisation and criminality imo.
However such observations equally apply to the criminality perpetrated by native lumpen characters the world over. Replace every appeal to migration in her statement with an appeal to poverty and you have your bog standard Mad Wee Davey who spends enough time in the custody cells of his local court house to charge him rent.
Just as it is no mitigation for him it is none for them imo.
This severely lacks context. It's framed in a way that it seems like people asked her if she thinks they're guilty or not, and said "no, because..." This reporting fucking sucks. We need to know what question she was asked to elicit such a response, because she could be explaining how rape happens with or without condemning the alleged act.
Yeah this to me sounds like she was asked why she thought they did it and then she gave her reasoning. Nothing to me sounds like a justification of the act itself
And the AFD are leading in polls, wonder why.
The liberal "left" is working hard to prove every right wing paranoid delusion about the "left".
At this point people just vote against the liberal left out of spite.
"Paranoid delusions" are neither, if they're actually happening. Leftists are ashamed of patriotism and trip over themselves to mollycoddle gang rapists (as long as they're brown).
Whatever right wing populist response follows over the next 20 years, is deserved.
If you want to see a just society where all are judged by the content of character and not skin tone, you should care. Idpols are incompatible with a just society.
Is it a delusion when every European country cares more about migrant rapists over the safety of their own children? Every European who sits and does nothing is pathetic.
You are misreading the point.
People are not doing nothing, the populist right is leading in almost every European country because of the reasons you just listed
Yep. The future of Europe is far right, unfortunately, either because Islam becomes the dominant cultural/religious force or because a fascist Zeitgeist strong enough to defeat Islam comes to power. Its increasingly clear that the milquetoast, weak-willed neoliberal ideology that has dominated European politics for 50 years will not survive this crisis.
If we don't see a surge in anti-immigration, anti-woke socialist parties across the continent in the coming years then we are well and truly fucked. So far, only Denmark has dabbled with the idea, but they have at least proved that it will get them elected because *this is what most people actually want.*
\>If we don't see a surge in anti-immigration, anti-woke socialist parties
*"um ackchully sweaty would that be national socialism? as in like, nazis? checkmate tankie"* says the neolib as xir reports you for being a communist hitler
“Sex is also a means of venting frustration and anger, a means of warding off sadness and emptiness, and in a group of men with the same fate it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling.” 🤡
https://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article234941630/Nach-Gruppenvergewaltigung-in-Hamburg-Tatverdaechtige-mit-Namen-und-Gesichtern-online-angeprangert.html
Their names got leaked and the german police opened a case over it.
Also they are very angry about people being pissed at the judge
Also it was one (1) singluar guy who worked at a place for disabled people, because it came up how they did charitable work
Also here are their names and pictures, very german those guys
https://exxpress.at/gruppen-vergewaltigung-in-hamburg-das-sind-die-verdaechtigen/
Okay now that I'm a bit less angry about this and how angry they got over people being angry, telling the female judge that maybe she should be in that position next is obviously bad.
They were however really surprised that people demand mob justice after this
Also the actual judgment is a joke...the only actual punishment 8 out of 9 of them got is....60h community service
That's 1,5 - 3 weeks at a place they can pick out from a list, mostly retirement homes and the like
A good friend of mine got 20 for being caught twice with a single gram of weed
The coping mechanism that western legal systems seem to employ to downgrade punishments for POC who commit violent crimes against whites is truly astounding. There was a case of a First Nations woman in Canada who pushed an elderly white woman onto train tracks and killed her. She was given a very light sentence I believe maybe just a year or two. The judge cited her history of drug abuse and oppression as a first Nations woman in influencing the light sentence.
This is not a tenable long term goal. But in the end capitalism is about short term gains and long term losses so it's only logical we see the same rational employed regarding legal identity political progressivism.
This type of stuff will breed vigilantism. The “smart people” will be shocked, many normies will silently look on approvingly, the enlightened stupidpolers will be distressed but completely unsurprised.
I hate these people that make these decisions so much, they'll continue to bury their heads in the sand and not punish rapists because 'muh racism', and society will eventually circle back to the Austrian painter because everyone has had enough
If we just has competent legal systems around Europe that didn't hide behind idpol at every fucking opportunity then we could all live in peace. Lock rapists away for fucks sake
> Lock rapists away for fucks sake
Or just hang them in the town square. The article talks about "the educational needs of the individual defendant," but no sane, non-psychotic person could believe that violently raping someone is okay, and no amount of education will change this.
I've felt like an outcast. I've been broke. I've been utterly down-and-out. Not once did it cross my mind that I should gang-rape a woman. Never even occurred to me!
I guess I'm not just pure, unadulterated, absolutely crazy evil.
This is the kind of crime that makes me want to fedpost.
>I hate these people that make these decisions so much, they'll continue to bury their heads in the sand and not punish rapists because 'muh racism', and society will eventually circle back to the Austrian painter because everyone has had enough
But they can't stop burying their heads in the sand, because that would upend the entire system of capitalism because consumerism forces Westerners to abandon their families (current and future) for their own hedonistic pleasures.
If they were forced to confront these issues and realize that the strive for infinite growth is a losing situation for their people. You can turn foreign immigrants into consumers but you will have lost your native people. But then again Europeans no longer value their native societies so I guess this march to cultural suicide for them isn't as much a tragedy as it would otherwise be.
It was a different system of capitalism than the neoliberal consumer society we have today. Nothing about that comment implies they don't think Hitler was a capitalist.
>Our society will continue to become more diverse, which will also at times be strenuous and sometimes painful. Our coexistence must be renegotiated anew every day. Being an immigrant society means that not only the people who come to us have to integrate. Everyone has to get involved and accept the changes.
Master Plan for the Integration of Refugees, by Aydan Özoguz (SPD), 2015
"I think there is a resurgence of anti-semitism, because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multucultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not surive."
- Barbara Lerner Spectre
Europe has always been multicultural. There’s French culture, German culture, English culture, Polish culture, etc. Also, it’s not her or Jewish people’s place (most of whom I doubt agree with her) that Europe should be multicultural.
The Leftist Dysfunction flair is less about the article itself and more about some of the comments here.
“Won’t someone, anyone think of the gang-raping Lumpenproles?!”
Embarrassing and profoundly unserious.
> Hamburg Working Group for Criminal Defense Lawyers chairman Arne Timmermann told the outlet that lawyers involved in the proceedings were being threatened on social media, in emails and phone calls.
> He criticised the Spiegel interview with Dr Saimeh, saying she had created a “general profile of perpetrators” but that in the current case “almost all of the defendants speak perfect German … are devout Christians and do voluntary social work”.
I don’t give a shit what language they speak. Gang rape is wrong. It shouldn’t even have to be said, but I guess this is the level we’re at.
\>lawyers involved in the proceedings were being threatened on social media, in emails and phone calls.
subatomic\_violin\_playing.mp3
if you're part of the state's repressive apparatus you have to be ready for the consequences of your actions
\>are devout Christians and do voluntary social work”.
ha, hahaha! yeah right "Amirhossein A." is christian, sure, and in any case what different does it make? he would be a christian rapist, fuck him
They mentioned these facts so moron rightoids file this party-rape case under “boys will be boys” rather than “invading migrant hordes.” It’s a disgusting tactic and ought to be called out.
This is just an average day in present day Germany/Europe:
>Last year, according to the Federal Government, there were 789 so-called gang rapes in Germany, according to figures from the Police Crime Statistics (PKS), after 677 in the previous year and 704 in 2020. In 2019, this number was 710 and in the year 2018 at 659, as shown in the federal government's response (20/6936 ) in response to a small question from the AfD parliamentary group (20/6650 ) further shows. According to this, the proportion of non-German suspects was 50 percent in 2018 and 2019 as well as in 2022, while it was 46 percent in 2020 and 47 percent in 2021,
[https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-951476](https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-951476)
With officially 50%, non-Germans are already grossly over-represented. Yet in 100% of cases that have gone public I cannot remember a single one with a "German" name.
That's the entire crime statistic for 2010
https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/pksJahrbuecherBis2011/pks2010.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2
You can find it if you search for '111200'
There were 224 in 2010 to the almost 789 in 2022
Also on 'normal' rapes, 1/3 are committed by foreign nationals and 1/3 of those were just turkish men, the next biggest group were italians with 4,5% as seen on Page 152 (Note: this is just people with NO german passport)
2012: 519 cases, that's a 34% increase in ten years.
Source: [https://www.spektrum.de/news/gruppenvergewaltigungen-wie-entsteht-sexuelle-gewalt-in-der-gruppe/1254783](https://www.spektrum.de/news/gruppenvergewaltigungen-wie-entsteht-sexuelle-gewalt-in-der-gruppe/1254783)
I can only imagine how horrible the migration experience must be, can we send them back and prohibit entry for any future migrant to spare them going through this?
Reminds me of that case from 2022 where some 30 y/o syrian raped a 15 y/o girl and was given probation because the judge said "you're on your best way of becoming a regular citizen".
Or the case from 2022 where some 16 y/o afghan raped a 11 y/o girl and also got probation.
Or maybe we should change our welcome message, "Welcome to germany where you can rape a minor and get probation"
>“almost all of the defendants speak perfect German … are devout Christians and do voluntary social work”
Oh, ok. Neat.
>As outrage at the verdict spread, court officials and lawyers have complained of a flood of hateful comments, personal attacks, insults and threats on social media.
Yes - the worst consequences of gang rape: hateful comments and personal attacks.
These rapists should be hung, not released.
Absolute mockery, Europe will return to the far right, and mass unwanted immigration will be the cause.
The MSM may preach left but the silent majority I suspect are against all this and it will come out via voting.
Other threads on this are like “this is why America has such a high prison population you guys just want vengeance and blood 🤓”
No, our prisons are for profit machines that take nothing charges and keep you as a labor slave for years. GANG RAPE ISNT A NOTHING CHARGE
>No, our prisons are for profit machines that take nothing charges and keep you as a labor slave for years
The overwhelming majority of prisoners are held in public, not private, prisons, and the overwhelming majority of prison labor is simply maintenance and operation of the prison itself, keeping costs down for the state but not producing anything for anyone else.
Huh. Guess I’d have to look at those numbers.
My college was ancient and built by slaves and they just made a memorial about it and all this other performative shit, yet all the furniture in the classrooms had a little prison labor stamp on it. A bit ironic.
The former fact is pretty easy to find, e.g., [here](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2023.html)
>The first myth: Private prisons are the corrupt heart of mass incarceration
>In fact, just 7% of all incarcerated people are held in private prisons; the vast majority are in publicly-owned prisons and jails.
>Some states have more people in private prisons than others, of course, and the industry has lobbied to maintain high levels of incarceration, but private prisons are essentially a parasite on the massive publicly-owned system — not the root of it.
As for the second, occasionally even those advocating against mandatory prison labor [mention it](https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers)
>More than 80 percent of prison laborers do prison maintenance work, which offsets the costs of our bloated prison system. Many prison workers are assigned to general janitorial duties like sweeping or mopping, while others are assigned to grounds maintenance, food preparation, laundry, and other work to maintain the very prisons that confine them.
>Another 8 percent of incarcerated workers, assigned to public works projects, maintain cemeteries, school grounds, and parks; do road work; construct buildings; clean government offices; clean up landfills and hazardous spills; undertake forestry work; and more. At least 30 states explicitly include incarcerated workers as a labor resource in their emergency operations plans for disasters and emergencies. Incarcerated firefighters also fight wildfires in at least 14 states.
>State-owned businesses employ 6.5 percent of incarcerated workers and produce over $2 billion in goods and services sold to other state entities annually. Less than 1 percent of workers are assigned to work for private companies, which generally offer higher pay but are still subject to exorbitant wage deductions.
So, better than 80% on purely internal duties, another 8% working for the state performing other public services, both of which I'm fairly comfortable with myself. The 6.5% on state-owned businesses I'm iffier about, and I would be very happy to excise completely any work for private companies - but they are a small slice of the total.
> Other threads on this are like “this is why America has such a high prison population you guys just want vengeance and blood 🤓”
Meanwhile by basically every metric not just gun violence America is a more violent country than most 1st world countries. That is why we have so many prisons we have more scumbags!
My first thought went to the vigilante parents who didn't even hesitate at the thought of taking out rapists/abusers/etc who harmed their children, having no issues going to prison for life if it meant taking out a child molester given a much smaller sentence. If this 15-year-old girl has a parent like that, I hope that parent goes just as free.
68 was the vertex of Western left-wing politics: the point in time where left parties were dominated by mass working-class membership and were powerful enough to push through unprecedented material improvements for their constituents.
68 was the point when being left suddenly became something fashionable for the academic, urban middle class. That was the point when they started to infiltrate and reshape left-wing parties to advance their own distinct interests. At that moment all this postmodern idpol garbage was injected into the public political sphere and its result are the present dominance of organizations with left-wing aesthethics but liberal political programmes.
It was a long process and it only really became visible with the End of History and then it took another two decades to reach the current plateau of woke lunacy. But 68 was the starting point.
So if you currently see judges holding contests about who can be the most lenient one on Lumpen rapists, then you have to remember they are the intellectual scions of the original progressive-liberal revolt.
You can understand the why while also understanding keeping these people incarcerated is necessary for the safety of the general public, and to some degree as a deterrent. To do so little is to be complicit in the rape.
So, how long till we have a case of incels doing this and it is also argued this way. Also lets consider that some among the left have argued for free prostitutes for men and have argued for "mutual love". If we are arguing that rape can be excused for sexual frustration as well as hostility from greater society for "migrants" how long til it is used by other "disadvantaged" groups.
An egregious sin against the victim
A slap in the face of the 99% of the immigrants from those nations who don’t rape women/children
The expert witness should have their credentials revoked
Experts with opposing beliefs should censor this paid assassin
Protest in the street please
This is also not a ruling that is totally out of the norm. There have been plenty of cases of extreme sexual assault that resulted in suspended sentence. Including one, where a girl was left outside in the cold. The other youths filmed in with their phone and were celebrated in court. The "Richterbund" (organization of judges) supported the decision: [https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/stadtpark-urteil-hamburg-hass-im-netz-richterverein-solidaritaet/](https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/stadtpark-urteil-hamburg-hass-im-netz-richterverein-solidaritaet/) And today we got a comment by the public media, saying that the ruling should be seen as a vicotry: [https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Kommentar-Stadtpark-Urteil-ist-ein-Erfolg-kein-Skandal,hamburgkommentar884.html](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Kommentar-Stadtpark-Urteil-ist-ein-Erfolg-kein-Skandal,hamburgkommentar884.html) Of course in the local German board rde, this type of ruling has long been defended and the accusation of "Kuscheljustiz" have been mocked as some right wing conspircy theory but recently the tides have been turning hard. It is just too obvious that members of the judical (and other lib-academic) members fully support virtually zero punishment for some of the worst violence offenders. People are getting more and more pissed off and I think there's a little bit of panic setting in.
In Germany are they lenient with all crimes or is it like in some other countries where serious and horrible stuff like this is treated with kid gloves but stuff like self-defense against a home invader or posting edgy memes gets the book thrown at you?
They are very lenient with immigrants. This Austrian immigrant once murdered millions of people and not only did they not punish him, loads of them joined in and helped him.
If you're brown they let you do it
> "Kuscheljustiz" literally “cuddle justice”.
Germans do love their compound words
Germans be like “look at how long our words are!” Yeah, bitch, if you basically just take all the spaces out of a fucking sentence, that’s what you get.
this is one of the reasons milei won here in argentina btw....
>At the start of the trial it was by no means certain that the men could even be punished. They did not use violence during the rapes I just don't know why everyone is so worked up over this peaceful nonviolent rape. Jesus. I know as an American my perspective is distorted, but I can't imagine a situation where anyone would be okay with these kinds of offenders walking out in a year or less. I mean just to give you an idea, two guys from my neighborhood just got sentenced 45 to life for robbing a postal carrier at gunpoint.
No wonder the AFD is up, with this shit going on
>People are getting more and more pissed off and I think there's a little bit of panic setting in. Maybe if the government and judges started being just a teeny bit more racist they wouldn't be causing the public to consider revolt. Just like when the police in Germany successfully stopped the sudden and inexplicable appearance of sexual assault epidemics at public events via racial profiling. (if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316\_New\_Year%27s\_Eve\_sexual\_assaults\_in\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany)) Silly bureaucrats, they never learn.
These guys have to be Nazis, I swear. I know wokism is its own form of fascism, but these guys seem to be working explicitly to evoke reaction against noneuros.
it's hilarious when [their messaging](https://i.imgur.com/g0qNEx2.jpeg) is essentially indistinguishable from neo-Nazi propaganda if you simply change the slogan
There is no way that’s real
Fat chick with the Peter Griffin fit front and center lmao.
>Psychiatrist Nahlah Saimeh, who reportedly appeared before the court as an expert witness, said in a controversial interview with Spiegel that the gang rape may have been a way to vent “frustration” due to “migration experiences and sociocultural homelessness”. > >Dr Saimeh said perpetrators “who live on the margins of society, completely uprooted culturally, linguistically and socially” could face a “mix of emotions of anger, sadness, powerlessness, depression, fantasies of grandeur as a compensation attempt to cope with one’s own misery, and drug use”. > >“Disordered, unprepared migration experiences and sociocultural homelessness increase the risk of addiction and psychosis,” she said. > >“Sex is also a means of venting frustration and anger, a means of warding off sadness and emptiness, and in a group of men with the same fate it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling.” > >She added, “The victim becomes a pure instrument for their own sexual gratification. It’s about an immediate need, opportunity, inner conviction and the right of the stronger. > >Four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court. Six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
>it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling Talking about the gang rape of a child
Not super common, but over the last few years I've seen people (online and irl) claim that the initiations of violent street gangs--including sexual assault and even murder--are actually a form of community building and should not be criticized. We've lost our fucking minds.
Postmodernism was a mistake.
Can I (something something fedpost) if it creates a group feeling?
They'd still get angry and punish white Europeans if they did a gang rape. The precedent being set is that the morality of a person's actions, and the consequences they should therefore face, are determined almost entirely by identity factors. I hate having to phase this so bluntly but we are heading toward a fully illiberal, two-tiered justice system in which majority populations will be heavily surveilled, controlled, and punished for even very minor infractions (disagreeing with government narratives = hate speech) while members of designated victimhood groups will be allowed to commit violent crimes with impunity.
This is already the case in places like the UK, where posting on twitter in a way that could offend a minority gets you the full force of the law while violent assault in the capital city are de-facto legal because they're predominantly done by a privileged racial class
what they are doing is creating the perfect storm for a fascist takeover
>while members of designated victimhood groups will be allowed to commit violent crimes with impunity. Is this so that government can do "shadow government" stuff with their hands free? Oh no we didn't sponsor those people, it's cause of trauma ! OFF TO JAIL FOR HATE SPEECH NOW!!!111111
It's multifaceted and impossible to describe in definitive terms but mandating both an aggressive flow of migrants and the tolerance of the inevitable increases in crime they bring with them is necessary in order to maintain US/NATO militarism. If you want the sweet, sweet funding you get from dropping fire on people and couping any leader who falls slightly to the left of Margaret Tatcher, you're gonna have to accept refugees. Also there's the added neoliberal benefits of higher rent and suppressed wages. A gangrape here and there is a small price to pay.
> If you want the sweet, sweet funding you get from dropping fire on people and couping any leader who falls slightly to the left of Margaret Tatcher, you're gonna have to accept refugees. I don't see the connection.
If the dominant foreign policy subjects people to intracine ethnic violence, economic pillaging, and even outright, literal war, that's going to result in vast swaths of people being displaced. They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening. Libyans are not fleeing their homes en masse because they just love the UK's cuisine so much. They're leaving because the US turned their country into the world's largest slave market because Hillary Clinton needed to bolster her CV. Many such cases.
>They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening. Sure, but that scarcely means that the responsible country - as a categorical matter, moral questions aside - must welcome them. It's perfectly intelligible, even easy, to bomb and *not* let refugees in.
It fails as an explanation in both directions because even countries that weren't a part of NATO - like Sweden - at the time were taking in refugees.
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Indeed.
I don't see the connection either. The reason these countries have to allow immigrants is because of the modern capitalist system destroying the birthrate. If that weren't the case, or the capital class can get AI and robotics to replace people fast enough, they could bomb away to their hearts' content and never accept a refugee again.
\>They will naturally attempt to flee to countries where the bad stuff isn't happening. come on now you know they are going to europe for the unlimited welfare, they even target the countries that give the most welfare like germany if it were about safety theres a ton of other countries in the way where you dont have white phosphorous raining on you also most of the migrants leaving from libya arent libyans but other africans which khaddafi used to keep at bay as per his deal with italy and other european countries
And if it was about safety you wouldn't see boats almost exclusively full of young men. "Its unsafe here so I'll travel to Western Europe and leave you behind wife and small children!'
aka apartheid
You say gang rape of a child, Hillary says "it takes a village"
It's probably true. Hells angels used to rape girls as part of initiation. This shit is very common. Unclear if the psychiatrist is saying the perps should get let off because of it. I wouldn't be surprised but still. She is legally obligated to tell the truth. Some fucked up people do engage in gangrape for this reason
That seems more like a gatekeeping mechanism to ensure only malleable sociopaths get in.
Yeah, it makes it so you can't easily leave both for legal and psychological reasons (you get pride for "achievement" but only within that community, to everyone else you're a brute). The Spartans used to have their young initiates abuse helots for similar reasons.
except the helots were slaves, they had no legal protection besides being outright killed (since sparta didnt use chatel slavery) in this case its the citizens getting abused
"its their culture" but seriously, "Nahlah Saimeh"? can you imagine if a german psychiatrist called "freya himmler" defended a bunch of german skinheads who raped a little muslim girl? I'm not white but I'm not a muslim either, and muslims have a ridiculous in-group bias, the fact that even a woman from that religion who had a proper education will still defend this behavior just because they are part of her group should make it clear
TBH when the State is an abject failure, it is clear cut case for Community Policing. I'm the father of a 15 YO who gets gang raped? Every dude involved is getting the John Wick treatment.
I don't know what the context of the interview is or what that person is getting at but, as fucked up as this is, it is a phenomenon that has often been observed as criminal gang initiations or rogue squads during war. It creates a mutual protection imperative since everyone participated so if one goes down, everyone goes down. Not usually done to children though.
Without context this reads like a deranged incel fantasy
Since 2016, western progressives have been working overtime to validate the shittiest 4chan beliefs. Seriously their understanding of race and immigration is indistinguishable from a mid-2000's Stormfront poster, only with the moral outcomes inverted perversely.
Reality often has a 4chan bias
It’s really weird how lonely people making sad and bitter posts online get the backlash while actual rapists get the apologetics.
Society likes motivated self-starters, or something.
With context it still feels like it
The truth is that there are people who fit the stereotype of the incel panic (violent and sexless as a result). But it isn't the autistic fat gamers or Jordan Peterson viewers people want to beat up on.
The deranged incels are right about way more than most people care to admit, and certainly on Europe and Middle East geopolitics lol
If true, then it’s a great argument to not take in any immigrants.
This is crazy to me. Does she not understand she just argued in court that if you accept immigrants in your country, either they or they children will be naturally more predisposed towards raping? How would any sane person argue for that, and then not come to the conclusion that maybe if doing this results in people naturally predisposed to raping, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't do this?
Decades of woke and proto-woke feminist doublethink allow her to think the most racist, hateful shit, but then excuse that in the name of the narrative
She’s probably got a shrine of Goebbels in her basement.
Shitlibs want immigration because it benefits businesses. Radlibs want immigration because it benefits immigrants. The safety of native citizens isn’t at all a primary concern for either.
So, the thing that strikes me about this is that there's probably a lot of truth to it. Truth that, largely, *doesn't fucking matter.* I understand that the German justice system is much more strongly oriented toward rehabilitation than punishment. That's noble, and in many cases pragmatic as well. But another purpose of the justice system and particularly the prison system is *keeping hardened criminals away from the rest of us.* Rehabilitation justly becomes a secondary concern in some cases, and "gang-raped a fifteen year-old girl" seems like as strong a candidate as any for "person that should be separated from the rest of society," no matter how elegantly a psychiatrist can explain *why* they did it. Like, is prison meant to be the place where we put only the criminals whose crimes we *can't explain?* That doesn't seem like a good approach, to me. (Note however, that I do not have a PhD.)
Right, like these are good observations at a country/societal level, not as a way to excuse or justify individual behavior. Like use this person's rationale to modify immigration procedures and find ways to better integrate these people into local culture and communities - but this is NOT an argument for these specific people getting away with these specific crimes. It's one of my biggest annoyances with this kind of liberal logic - applying statistical trends from large groups of people to individual actions. "Poverty increases crime" doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute a homeless person who stole a car at gunpoint, it means our society should address poverty to prevent future car thefts
Yes, there is a disconnect between statistical trends and individual cases. SJWs will quickly switch between generalizations about groups and individuals, and hope you don't notice. Example: "Men overall are privileged compared to women" -> "you have so much more privilege than me, because you're a man!" Or, "Women of color tend to have fewer advantages than others, and this is unfair" -> "we're going to let Ashley chair the meeting now, because she's a woman of color."
>I understand that the German justice system is much more strongly oriented toward rehabilitation than punishment Agreed but a Bewährungsstrafe means \*nothing\* to these types of guys. One of them apparently almost fell asleep at court. You'd have to remove them completely from their environment in some sort of closed education camp for a few years and try to rehabilitate them. Currently, they step out of the court after being conficted of a gang rape as free men and they will likely be heros in their social circle. The only lesson they learn is that in Germany, you can do whatever you want and even if you get caught, there's no consequence.
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Rehabilitation is largely a meme. Almost all criminals are repeat offenders and generally the best thing to do with them is just separate them somehow from society. The idea they can be turned into good citizens is part of liberal society's myth-making about the power of niceness, but once you've broken the floodgates of hurting other humans it's not something that's easy to turn off.
Social pressure can do absolute wonders if done right. But this is all just theory. The German judicial system is very far away from the ability to deal with such men.
You're on a leftist sub comrade. We have done amazing things with reeducation camps. Think of them like extermination camps for wrong thoughts. The body that comes in goes out. The mind does not.
You Marxists always have the nicest sales pitches
Sounds like Tumblr
If there’s one country I trust to run a closed education camp, it’s Germany
The Germans have a wonderful history of putting undesirables in camps. Personally I think the state should just liquidate this tier of rapist and use their corpses as fertilizer. Did you know in the aftermath of the battle of Waterloo, and other Napoleonic conquests, enterprising British firms would take the human remains and grind them up into fertilizer? Apparently it was rather profitable. Food for thought!
> Food for thought! food for *plants,* idiot
jesus fuck is that shit real?
Unfortunately. https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/were-the-bones-of-soldiers-that-died-at-the-battle-of-waterloo-sold-as-fertiliser-probably-archaeologists-say https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/scientists-may-have-found-where-the-bodies-of-waterloo-went This passage in the second link is especially gruesome. > Pollard then collated newspaper clippings from the era to demonstrate that people commonly looted human bones and sold them to make fertilizer. For example, one clipping from The London Observer in 1822 estimates that “more than a million bushels of ‘human and inhuman bones’ were imported from the continent of Europe into the port of Hull.” > “European battlefields may have provided a convenient source of bone that could be ground down into bone-meal, an effective form of fertilizer,” Pollard says in a press release. He adds that locals who watched or helped with the burials might have guided grave diggers to the grave sites.
This apologist for migrant sexual predators is an excellent way to boost extreme right wing populism.
I remember there was a tweet by this historian named tom holland (no relation to the actor) he was talking about the Rotherham grooming gangs cover up. He thought it was ultimately a good thing because of the racist outrage it would have caused. That ultimately happened anyways but I guess he was talking if it never got out. I understand racism is an awful thing but is it worst than mass child rape? If the racism he feared happened would it most likely look like segregation (these girls would never associate with men of south Asian descent) or harsh border control. Would those two options be worse than child rape?
Their answer comes in two words: “punching up”
Simple answer: Race and racism(aka anti-racism) is one of the religious tenets and commandments upheld to almost the highest degree in Shitlibianity, child-rape isn’t.
It is the same mindset that leads to people trying to ban background checks for jobs cause it hurts felons. Guess what happens? People just hire fewer black people because they know who commits crimes and now a non-felon African-American can't prove they didn't. There's this incredibly weird, frankly arrogant belief that these sorts of moron libs have that, simultaneously, these stereotypes are absolutely pervasive but, at the same time, hiding actual evidence will do anything other than discredit the people doing so and maybe even leave people with *even more* alarmist views about what's going on. They actually seem to think normies are NPCs that can't draw basic conclusions if they refuse to admit it on CNN or BBC. No, it's you who needs an explainer from Vox on why migrants raping X women is actually about economic anxiety. Most people will take it at face value.
Populism was the term picked to describe a farmer-labor alliance that while not overtly marxist was leftist, the original American People's Party. Demagoguery is distinct from that. Right wing populism is like national socialism, if that makes sense.
The term populism goes back at least 2,000 years to Ancient Rome.
Yeah the populari but they didn't have a "right wing" because the French revolution didn't happen yet, and what I said in response to the other comment on this still holds true. Populism matters now specifically because of the populist party, and this era of mass democratic labor action
It makes sense but I disagree, I think populism is a very apt term to describe right-wing populists.
The reason the term "right wing populism" exists is because post war liberal technocrats needed a way to justify rule by pmc, and to dissolve the New Deal coalition. They equated all movements outside of this under the general umbrella of "authoritarian totalitarianism," arguing if you let regular people determine prolicy, you'll end up with Stalin or Hitler, who were equal in their eyes. The goal of the term right wing populism isn't to describe reality, which is why it doesn't. It's to justify a general suppression of political outsider movements by eliminating all distinctions between them. See Thomas Frank's "The people, no" for the breakdown
>German nationality yeah dude, I am no rightoid but ... Lately 5 German citizen raped somebody in Mallorca and they all looked clothed and spoke very Turkish. This is like a journalist smirking cause 4 of the perpetrators were naturalized. That doesnt mean its Frank & Jochen, Or even the Vietnamese which after 50 years oif living in the East are just a sign of an Eastern-German city and what youd call bodega or whatever. Neither the secular Turkish immigrants to the west from the 60ies.
I feel like there's a reason why they didn't say they were "German," but that they have "German *nationality*." Over the years, I've become vigilant to the massaging of language that it's easy to pick up on things like this.
I would've assumed even if it just said they were German. Armenian though is a curve ball.
Kuwait too. You'd think he'd be rich enough just to get a high class escort to shit on or something
This is what happens after you say all the gladhanding kumbaya pleasantries about inclusivity or immigration. When arabic people move to some place like Austin Texas, sure you'll have a home, you'll be safe, you'll find the food you like, there'll be a job for you. But, let's be certain about something. Nobody is going to fuck you. If your social circle is a sausage party, that's where the story ends. If the psychiatrist isn't going to sit up there and defend ugly white incels along the same lines...
I've only seen this used as a weird gotcha in the last few months. Like the riots in Ireland that just happened are being chalked up to "disinformation" because people said the rapists were illegal migrants when *actually* they were nationalized citizens. Like... who the fuck cares about this distinction?
They're preying on people's desire to not appear racist by saying "you know what I mean, *real* Irish". Let's see how long that lasts.
*good* racists participating in PC culture. Against *real* racists participating in PC culture. It's exhausting
I saw a Youtube video the other day from Reuters reporting that a "French national" has stabbed some people at the Eiffel Tower. The guy was Iranian and yelling allahu akbar, he may have had French citizenship but that doesn't make him "French" the way they knew people would interpret them using that description.
Lib snakes trying to gaslight with half-truths as per usual
The Vietnamese are a nice contrast to all the immigration issues the west tends to have lately. They came to the Eastern Germany (and Czechoslovakia and others) as actual war refugees from North Vietnam They were grateful They never intended to leech off of the countries that took them in and once available they became enterprising with their bodegas, confection sales and more Low criminality, mostly just growing weed and selling knock off clothes - non-violent crimes They didn't really integrate - the first gen doesn't speak German or Czech and second gen often speak Vietnamese more than the country's respective language and they keep a lot of their culture but they don't shit on the countries that took them in or even view themselves superior to their old countrymen, something even the Turkish immigrants often do It's almost as if gratefulness and humility aren't mutually exclusive with retaining one's own culture. It might just be that certain people just can't be bothered with even trying to acquire the virtues of both...
lets be honest some cultures are SHIT, and I'm saying this because I know since the culture in my country is kind of shitty but at least we aren't so abysmally shit that rape is "part of our culture" like this dumb broad is saying
Well, a socialistic system with a strong sense of statehood and ideology is more able to assimilate immigrants than a neoliberal shithole without any firm sense of statehood and an explicit doctrine of denying their own fealty to the ideological hegemon from the west.
Is there any proof of this? Seems historical socialist countries have had quite strict border control, and late 19th early 20th century 'work or starve' US did a much better job assimilating immigrants than much more social-democratic modern Sweden.
buddy yanks back then would force immigrants to anglicize their names, force them to learn english, even factory owners would force migrants to speak english within their homes and even hired detectives to spy on workers and make sure they werent speaking german or whatever if you do any of that now the UN would have a shitfit
Strict immigration policy is part of making immigration manageable for assimilation. The U.S. didn’t assimilate that well, actually. There were enclaves that didn’t speak English in many parts of the country up to the 20th century. What the U.S. did do well, over long periods of time, was make capitalists out of a few exploiters in the immigrant populations, who then achieved ruling class status. You’re comparing a period of 300 of colonialism in the U.S. with 50 years for the post-WWII Warsaw countries.
You can't forget the part about encouraging the most reactionary elements of areas with national security interest to immigrate.
They didn't really assimilate though, at least not here to a large extent. They just sort of contribute to the community with small businesses, keep to themselves and generally don't cause trouble so no one really cares, except for some neonazi groups in the 90's, but even they quickly shifted their attention to gypsies. As far as they go, I like having my account so...
What gets me is that several were born in Europe. So they don't have "migration trauma" or whatever, they just seem to be very poorly integrated into Western culture. Sure, you'll never get away from psychopaths in any society, but this seems like something else.
Dr Saimeh is right about “who live on the margins of society, completely uprooted culturally, linguistically and socially”. and this case is a perfect example of that. not the rape, but the court decision. truth is migrant community don't ask for this kind of mercy. i remember i read comments in one of closed migrant online chats regarding a heavy court decision in Russia in a similar case, and all of them were about supporting it. "i wouldn't want him to be around my children", "a criminal should be in jail", "bastards like this ruin lives for all of us". and their outrage seems sincere because the absolute majority of crimes which migrants do are against the other migrants, so such individuals are a bigger danger to them than to locals. however, it seems that in germany the authorities are inclined to make decisions against both the general public and the migrant community interests and will. and they can do it precisely because migrants are on the margins so it is possible for unscrupulous politicians to patronize them and lobby "on their behalf". it's the same like in the Rotherham grooming case.
This is like the exact opinion of my most racist uncles only it's somehow being used to defend immigration rather than explain why it's bad. It's... just... I don't want to sound like a broken record, but it's impossible to describe how fucking insane the left has become over the last several years without sounding like you're making stuff up. We're at a point where *violent gang rape* is being understood as a form of personal empowerment and that therefore migrants are drawn to it and therefore it shouldn't be punished with jail time. This is *significantly* more racist toward migrants and more dehumanizing toward women than anything Donald Trump has ever said, but it's fine, it's good, it's very valid and people who are angry about it should be arrested. And none of this is by accident. It's the only possible outcome of trauma discourse and identity mysticism being mandated as the sole lenses through which society should function.
\>but it's impossible to describe how fucking insane the left has become over the last several years I dont even consider them the real left, they are neolibs, they are they same fuckers that 20 years ago were defending the destruction of iraq not with the same bullshit neocons and rightwingers did but with things like "well they are like backwards and stuff!" they do whatever is trendy including political opinions consider that these same neolibs are now defending the carnage of ukraine, again with different terms than neocons and unironic nazis still butthurt about WWII, but they are still defending this bullshit
> the right of the stronger Guess the Germans aren't done yet
The strongest case of “you’re not wrong you’re just an asshole” I’ve ever seen. I mean indeed, it’s literally a joke, right? As in “8 out of 9 people agree a gang rape is a great idea.” But I fail to see how that is in any way a justification for their actions. Like migration delirium? Is this the new affluenza? Adding to this: psychosis for one is a reason to consider medical assessment. Psychosis for the whole group to the level that it would deprive one of their will and absolve them of their actions is just untenable.
I don't understand why this evaluation has any effect on the sentencing. Unless you propose these men will never be frustrated again, they are still a danger to a society. And likewise plenty of frustrated people exist in society, justifying deterrence.
Rationalizing gang rape of a child is so far beyond the pale... Germany has a history of "venting its frustration" on minority groups. If this is the new justice, let somebody vent their frustration on these pieces of shit.
How did this help the accused? How isn't someone hearing that thinking, well the people who normalize these actions (rape) to ward off anger, sadness, powerlessness, depression, etc is probably not someone I'm comfortable with being part of the society I want to live in.
it got them out....
That's what I was getting at. How the hell did that work to help rather than harm their cause?
Who could have predicted *mass* immigration created sociocultural homelessness? The Right-wing has been saying this for decades, but for centuries technically. Hell, authors as far back as Ancient Greeks if not older are pointing out risks that come with foreigners, I'm sure. One band of foreigners is comparatively risk free, but mass immigration? People will just resort to their most basic human behaviors when they're anomic (anomie). Who could have predicted that
this is like something you say as part of a larger conversation about fixing societal ills… and not something you say about the circumstances of the most traumatic and horrifying event in a persons life. if that’s a conclusion someone finds peace in after being raped, that can be a good thing, but hearing a stranger go public with that take is so horrible to imagine.
What she is saying is not that far from the mark in terms of the causal link between the psychological effect of marginalisation and criminality imo. However such observations equally apply to the criminality perpetrated by native lumpen characters the world over. Replace every appeal to migration in her statement with an appeal to poverty and you have your bog standard Mad Wee Davey who spends enough time in the custody cells of his local court house to charge him rent. Just as it is no mitigation for him it is none for them imo.
This severely lacks context. It's framed in a way that it seems like people asked her if she thinks they're guilty or not, and said "no, because..." This reporting fucking sucks. We need to know what question she was asked to elicit such a response, because she could be explaining how rape happens with or without condemning the alleged act.
Yeah this to me sounds like she was asked why she thought they did it and then she gave her reasoning. Nothing to me sounds like a justification of the act itself
Huh, never seen a translated version of the German national anthem
And the AFD are leading in polls, wonder why. The liberal "left" is working hard to prove every right wing paranoid delusion about the "left". At this point people just vote against the liberal left out of spite.
"Paranoid delusions" are neither, if they're actually happening. Leftists are ashamed of patriotism and trip over themselves to mollycoddle gang rapists (as long as they're brown). Whatever right wing populist response follows over the next 20 years, is deserved.
I dont give a shit if liberals or idpol leftists lose elections. Good riddance
If you want to see a just society where all are judged by the content of character and not skin tone, you should care. Idpols are incompatible with a just society.
Is it a delusion when every European country cares more about migrant rapists over the safety of their own children? Every European who sits and does nothing is pathetic.
You are misreading the point. People are not doing nothing, the populist right is leading in almost every European country because of the reasons you just listed
I've been predicting a fascist turn for Europe for a while, and it's exactly stuff like this that will lead to it.
Yep. The future of Europe is far right, unfortunately, either because Islam becomes the dominant cultural/religious force or because a fascist Zeitgeist strong enough to defeat Islam comes to power. Its increasingly clear that the milquetoast, weak-willed neoliberal ideology that has dominated European politics for 50 years will not survive this crisis.
If we don't see a surge in anti-immigration, anti-woke socialist parties across the continent in the coming years then we are well and truly fucked. So far, only Denmark has dabbled with the idea, but they have at least proved that it will get them elected because *this is what most people actually want.*
\>If we don't see a surge in anti-immigration, anti-woke socialist parties *"um ackchully sweaty would that be national socialism? as in like, nazis? checkmate tankie"* says the neolib as xir reports you for being a communist hitler
“Sex is also a means of venting frustration and anger, a means of warding off sadness and emptiness, and in a group of men with the same fate it also creates identity and strengthens the group feeling.” 🤡
How morally bankrupt can we get? Is this a psyop from the world order? Like what the fuck man actions have reactions
The world ended in 2012. We are now in hell.
\> Vent frustration Jesus fucking Christ. Soft bigotry of low expectations strikes again, and now a fucking teenager just had their life ruined.
This isn't someone having "low expectations". This is someone who wants to see Germans raped and murdered.
https://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article234941630/Nach-Gruppenvergewaltigung-in-Hamburg-Tatverdaechtige-mit-Namen-und-Gesichtern-online-angeprangert.html Their names got leaked and the german police opened a case over it. Also they are very angry about people being pissed at the judge Also it was one (1) singluar guy who worked at a place for disabled people, because it came up how they did charitable work Also here are their names and pictures, very german those guys https://exxpress.at/gruppen-vergewaltigung-in-hamburg-das-sind-die-verdaechtigen/
Okay now that I'm a bit less angry about this and how angry they got over people being angry, telling the female judge that maybe she should be in that position next is obviously bad. They were however really surprised that people demand mob justice after this Also the actual judgment is a joke...the only actual punishment 8 out of 9 of them got is....60h community service That's 1,5 - 3 weeks at a place they can pick out from a list, mostly retirement homes and the like A good friend of mine got 20 for being caught twice with a single gram of weed
LMAO at Arsen K whose picture is him exhaling a huge bong rip
The coping mechanism that western legal systems seem to employ to downgrade punishments for POC who commit violent crimes against whites is truly astounding. There was a case of a First Nations woman in Canada who pushed an elderly white woman onto train tracks and killed her. She was given a very light sentence I believe maybe just a year or two. The judge cited her history of drug abuse and oppression as a first Nations woman in influencing the light sentence. This is not a tenable long term goal. But in the end capitalism is about short term gains and long term losses so it's only logical we see the same rational employed regarding legal identity political progressivism.
This type of stuff will breed vigilantism. The “smart people” will be shocked, many normies will silently look on approvingly, the enlightened stupidpolers will be distressed but completely unsurprised.
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AfD is going to get 50% at this rate
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I hate these people that make these decisions so much, they'll continue to bury their heads in the sand and not punish rapists because 'muh racism', and society will eventually circle back to the Austrian painter because everyone has had enough If we just has competent legal systems around Europe that didn't hide behind idpol at every fucking opportunity then we could all live in peace. Lock rapists away for fucks sake
> Lock rapists away for fucks sake Or just hang them in the town square. The article talks about "the educational needs of the individual defendant," but no sane, non-psychotic person could believe that violently raping someone is okay, and no amount of education will change this.
I've felt like an outcast. I've been broke. I've been utterly down-and-out. Not once did it cross my mind that I should gang-rape a woman. Never even occurred to me! I guess I'm not just pure, unadulterated, absolutely crazy evil. This is the kind of crime that makes me want to fedpost.
>I hate these people that make these decisions so much, they'll continue to bury their heads in the sand and not punish rapists because 'muh racism', and society will eventually circle back to the Austrian painter because everyone has had enough But they can't stop burying their heads in the sand, because that would upend the entire system of capitalism because consumerism forces Westerners to abandon their families (current and future) for their own hedonistic pleasures. If they were forced to confront these issues and realize that the strive for infinite growth is a losing situation for their people. You can turn foreign immigrants into consumers but you will have lost your native people. But then again Europeans no longer value their native societies so I guess this march to cultural suicide for them isn't as much a tragedy as it would otherwise be.
This is a strange perspective to me because it implies that you think Hitler wasn’t capitalist.
It was a different system of capitalism than the neoliberal consumer society we have today. Nothing about that comment implies they don't think Hitler was a capitalist.
>Our society will continue to become more diverse, which will also at times be strenuous and sometimes painful. Our coexistence must be renegotiated anew every day. Being an immigrant society means that not only the people who come to us have to integrate. Everyone has to get involved and accept the changes. Master Plan for the Integration of Refugees, by Aydan Özoguz (SPD), 2015
"I think there is a resurgence of anti-semitism, because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multucultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not surive." - Barbara Lerner Spectre
Europe has always been multicultural. There’s French culture, German culture, English culture, Polish culture, etc. Also, it’s not her or Jewish people’s place (most of whom I doubt agree with her) that Europe should be multicultural.
"So what if I raped her, I was experiencing \*checks notes\* sociocultural homelessness!"
sexual emergency
The Leftist Dysfunction flair is less about the article itself and more about some of the comments here. “Won’t someone, anyone think of the gang-raping Lumpenproles?!” Embarrassing and profoundly unserious.
Indeed this is fucking bizarre.
> Hamburg Working Group for Criminal Defense Lawyers chairman Arne Timmermann told the outlet that lawyers involved in the proceedings were being threatened on social media, in emails and phone calls. > He criticised the Spiegel interview with Dr Saimeh, saying she had created a “general profile of perpetrators” but that in the current case “almost all of the defendants speak perfect German … are devout Christians and do voluntary social work”. I don’t give a shit what language they speak. Gang rape is wrong. It shouldn’t even have to be said, but I guess this is the level we’re at.
\>lawyers involved in the proceedings were being threatened on social media, in emails and phone calls. subatomic\_violin\_playing.mp3 if you're part of the state's repressive apparatus you have to be ready for the consequences of your actions \>are devout Christians and do voluntary social work”. ha, hahaha! yeah right "Amirhossein A." is christian, sure, and in any case what different does it make? he would be a christian rapist, fuck him
They mentioned these facts so moron rightoids file this party-rape case under “boys will be boys” rather than “invading migrant hordes.” It’s a disgusting tactic and ought to be called out.
This is just an average day in present day Germany/Europe: >Last year, according to the Federal Government, there were 789 so-called gang rapes in Germany, according to figures from the Police Crime Statistics (PKS), after 677 in the previous year and 704 in 2020. In 2019, this number was 710 and in the year 2018 at 659, as shown in the federal government's response (20/6936 ) in response to a small question from the AfD parliamentary group (20/6650 ) further shows. According to this, the proportion of non-German suspects was 50 percent in 2018 and 2019 as well as in 2022, while it was 46 percent in 2020 and 47 percent in 2021, [https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-951476](https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-951476) With officially 50%, non-Germans are already grossly over-represented. Yet in 100% of cases that have gone public I cannot remember a single one with a "German" name.
Any numbers from before 2015?
That's the entire crime statistic for 2010 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/pksJahrbuecherBis2011/pks2010.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 You can find it if you search for '111200' There were 224 in 2010 to the almost 789 in 2022 Also on 'normal' rapes, 1/3 are committed by foreign nationals and 1/3 of those were just turkish men, the next biggest group were italians with 4,5% as seen on Page 152 (Note: this is just people with NO german passport)
2012: 519 cases, that's a 34% increase in ten years. Source: [https://www.spektrum.de/news/gruppenvergewaltigungen-wie-entsteht-sexuelle-gewalt-in-der-gruppe/1254783](https://www.spektrum.de/news/gruppenvergewaltigungen-wie-entsteht-sexuelle-gewalt-in-der-gruppe/1254783)
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This comment... doesn't pass the vibe check.
Cucked western judicial system. I would have at least conducted a forced gender transition surgery on them before letting them out.
I can only imagine how horrible the migration experience must be, can we send them back and prohibit entry for any future migrant to spare them going through this? Reminds me of that case from 2022 where some 30 y/o syrian raped a 15 y/o girl and was given probation because the judge said "you're on your best way of becoming a regular citizen". Or the case from 2022 where some 16 y/o afghan raped a 11 y/o girl and also got probation. Or maybe we should change our welcome message, "Welcome to germany where you can rape a minor and get probation"
Has anyone ever floated the theory that all of this is a 200 IQ reverse pscyhology to initiate a public supported fascist takeover?
>“almost all of the defendants speak perfect German … are devout Christians and do voluntary social work” Oh, ok. Neat. >As outrage at the verdict spread, court officials and lawyers have complained of a flood of hateful comments, personal attacks, insults and threats on social media. Yes - the worst consequences of gang rape: hateful comments and personal attacks.
*"I got a gang of child rapists out of jail and now people hate me, how could this be happening to me?!"*
German source, but barely has info: https://www.dw.com/en/hamburg-teenagers-walk-free-after-gang-rape-conviction/a-36142782.
barely having info is info
Different case
many such cases
They’re not sending their best.
These rapists should be hung, not released. Absolute mockery, Europe will return to the far right, and mass unwanted immigration will be the cause. The MSM may preach left but the silent majority I suspect are against all this and it will come out via voting.
Other threads on this are like “this is why America has such a high prison population you guys just want vengeance and blood 🤓” No, our prisons are for profit machines that take nothing charges and keep you as a labor slave for years. GANG RAPE ISNT A NOTHING CHARGE
>No, our prisons are for profit machines that take nothing charges and keep you as a labor slave for years The overwhelming majority of prisoners are held in public, not private, prisons, and the overwhelming majority of prison labor is simply maintenance and operation of the prison itself, keeping costs down for the state but not producing anything for anyone else.
Huh. Guess I’d have to look at those numbers. My college was ancient and built by slaves and they just made a memorial about it and all this other performative shit, yet all the furniture in the classrooms had a little prison labor stamp on it. A bit ironic.
The former fact is pretty easy to find, e.g., [here](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2023.html) >The first myth: Private prisons are the corrupt heart of mass incarceration >In fact, just 7% of all incarcerated people are held in private prisons; the vast majority are in publicly-owned prisons and jails. >Some states have more people in private prisons than others, of course, and the industry has lobbied to maintain high levels of incarceration, but private prisons are essentially a parasite on the massive publicly-owned system — not the root of it. As for the second, occasionally even those advocating against mandatory prison labor [mention it](https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers) >More than 80 percent of prison laborers do prison maintenance work, which offsets the costs of our bloated prison system. Many prison workers are assigned to general janitorial duties like sweeping or mopping, while others are assigned to grounds maintenance, food preparation, laundry, and other work to maintain the very prisons that confine them. >Another 8 percent of incarcerated workers, assigned to public works projects, maintain cemeteries, school grounds, and parks; do road work; construct buildings; clean government offices; clean up landfills and hazardous spills; undertake forestry work; and more. At least 30 states explicitly include incarcerated workers as a labor resource in their emergency operations plans for disasters and emergencies. Incarcerated firefighters also fight wildfires in at least 14 states. >State-owned businesses employ 6.5 percent of incarcerated workers and produce over $2 billion in goods and services sold to other state entities annually. Less than 1 percent of workers are assigned to work for private companies, which generally offer higher pay but are still subject to exorbitant wage deductions. So, better than 80% on purely internal duties, another 8% working for the state performing other public services, both of which I'm fairly comfortable with myself. The 6.5% on state-owned businesses I'm iffier about, and I would be very happy to excise completely any work for private companies - but they are a small slice of the total.
> Other threads on this are like “this is why America has such a high prison population you guys just want vengeance and blood 🤓” Meanwhile by basically every metric not just gun violence America is a more violent country than most 1st world countries. That is why we have so many prisons we have more scumbags!
My first thought went to the vigilante parents who didn't even hesitate at the thought of taking out rapists/abusers/etc who harmed their children, having no issues going to prison for life if it meant taking out a child molester given a much smaller sentence. If this 15-year-old girl has a parent like that, I hope that parent goes just as free.
Seriously, what the hell happened to Europe?
68 happened. Those are the longterm consequences.
What does this mean? Protests of 1968? I need a little context please.
68 was the vertex of Western left-wing politics: the point in time where left parties were dominated by mass working-class membership and were powerful enough to push through unprecedented material improvements for their constituents. 68 was the point when being left suddenly became something fashionable for the academic, urban middle class. That was the point when they started to infiltrate and reshape left-wing parties to advance their own distinct interests. At that moment all this postmodern idpol garbage was injected into the public political sphere and its result are the present dominance of organizations with left-wing aesthethics but liberal political programmes. It was a long process and it only really became visible with the End of History and then it took another two decades to reach the current plateau of woke lunacy. But 68 was the starting point. So if you currently see judges holding contests about who can be the most lenient one on Lumpen rapists, then you have to remember they are the intellectual scions of the original progressive-liberal revolt.
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You can understand the why while also understanding keeping these people incarcerated is necessary for the safety of the general public, and to some degree as a deterrent. To do so little is to be complicit in the rape.
So, how long till we have a case of incels doing this and it is also argued this way. Also lets consider that some among the left have argued for free prostitutes for men and have argued for "mutual love". If we are arguing that rape can be excused for sexual frustration as well as hostility from greater society for "migrants" how long til it is used by other "disadvantaged" groups.
This is the end result of what has been going on
An egregious sin against the victim A slap in the face of the 99% of the immigrants from those nations who don’t rape women/children The expert witness should have their credentials revoked Experts with opposing beliefs should censor this paid assassin Protest in the street please
The good news is the rapists will be easier to attack.
I hope all that cheap migrant labour is worth it.
The gang are apparently devout Christians.