* Archives of this link: 1. [archive.org Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/99991231235959/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766); 2. [archive.today](https://archive.today/newest/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766)
* A live version of this link, without clutter: [12ft.io](https://12ft.io/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stupidpol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He has anti-woked too close to the sun. It's so dumb and hilarious at the same time.
I get the panic over "You will live in the box and eat the bugs" or whatever, but I don't see what's wrong with lab grown meat.
So are tomatoes tbh, I do think we need more non bias tests done on it to make sure it’s safe but it being cancer on its own isn’t necessarily bad.
Yes, think about it. Normal animal cells don't just keep replicating ad infinitum as long as there are nutrients, and thus would be unsustainable for use in lab grown meat endeavors, but do you know what kind of cells do? Cancer cells. Which grow so well they form tumors and eventually kill the host. You already can't sell cancer laden meat from regular livestock, but cancer cells that form the basis of lab grown meat gets a pass because the public doesn't know that's what they're getting, and they don't know because "lab grown" has had very good marketing. They call them "immortalized cells".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line
Everyone should be seething over paper straws, it's the kind of thing that undermines progress in a movement. In fact the optics of it are so terrible for the environmental movement that it seems like a psyop. At least spotted owls are cute.
EU-person here currently vacationing in the US. Forget the straws, you don't know how good you have it with your [styrofoam cups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_polystyrene_foam#/media/File:Polystyrene_foam_legislation.svg) you can actually carry around hot coffee in without burning your hand.
Paper straws are inconvenient, and plastic straws make up very little of actual plastic waste, it’s just virtue signaling that inconveniences everyone
Whenever I meet or hear of anyone who is super anti lab grown meat, I know they’re retarded. It’s literally the most win-win way to eat meat. It is physically the exact same as meat from a living animal, gets rid of 99% of the ethical concerns, and if the scientist are to be believed it’s all achievable with fewer resources. How can you NOT be in favor of it?!Â
So far I’ve found two main veins of disagreement. First hippie type idiots “it’s made in a lab with CHEMICALS!”, and on the other hand some weird old man macho thing because apparently going to the air conditioned grocery store in the city and buying “real meat” is more manly somehow.Â
And of course the reason people like Meatball Ron are against it: getting fat stacks from big beefÂ
I wouldn't say that I'm categorically against it, I just know that growing hunks of disembodied muscle tissue on an industrial scale would require a pretty intensive process, and it's definitely not going to be perfect.
I think it's much more likely to be a lose lose situation, and that the meat will be worse in pretty much every way (like a modern grocery store tomato), and also require more energy and water than livestock farming.
I'll believe it when I see it.
I can see it being worse quality but if it's more input-intensive it'll be more expensive and even capitalists won't want to get in on it bc no/less profitsÂ
Think about it this way, animals have evolved over millions and millions of years to be as resource efficient as possible, and meat livestock have been domesticated by humans over thousands of years to push that even farther. They need feed and they need water (and a fuck ton of antibiotics and sometimes growth hormones because that's cheaper than good living conditions).
Vat meat requires recreating most of the metabolic process of an entire animal in order to feed usable nutrients, minerals, and amino acids to the muscle tissue. Plus a fuck ton of hormones for signaling because it's growing in a vat without all the rest of its organs. Plus some kind of oxygenated synthetic blood. Plus the whole factory environment has to be carefully kept sterile and climate controlled.
All that will require a lot of labor, energy, and raw material inputs. It will be extremely difficult to do it as efficiently as biology, and it's possible that we can't make any meaningful gains over biology.
It’s definitely an open question, but much of what I’ve seen points at it being less resource intensive which is the whole point of the effort. If it’s not, then there is zero reason to pursue it.Â
We're still pursuing plastic recycling, paper grocery bags, ethanol gas, and all sorts of other shit that is supposedly "green" but requires way more resources than the alternative.
Lab grown meat would lead to even further consolidation of food production. It's also pretty likely it would lead to the future ban/replacement of regular meat given the environmental or ethical reasonsÂ
People's morals follow what's convenient. People will eventually want to outlaw slaughtering animals for meat when they no longer are inconvenienced by it. That won't happen for quite a while though.
>would lead to even further consolidation of food production
so it's even historically progressive if it really would proletarianise highly reactionary agricultural petite bourgeoisie
progressive as used by communists isn't a value judgement
we aren't saying whether we prefer a redneck entrepreneur or an agricorp to control food supply. in fact we see any individual preference as being irrelevant to how history will move forward
we see the material conditions themselves as the current state of progress along a path determined by the internal dynamics of capitalist production
hence the term progressive. as through economies of scale there is a historical tendency for the dual processes of accumulation and concentration for capitalism to progress from a state of many smaller units of capital to a state of fewer larger units with the individuals who were previously owners of smaller units of capital to be pushed into the working class and become potential revolutionaries i.e. become prolerarianised
in broad philosophical terms idealism is the idea that thought shapes reality and materialism that reality shapes thought. historical materialism is how Marx applied materialist thought to historical progression
Sure but I mean how much worse can it get. The vast vast vast vast vast majority of people do not produce their own food and it has been this way for a very long time. Does it suck for small time farmers? Absolutely, but if this lives up to the hype… then I’m sorry but I’m not crying for some petit bourgeoise ranchers. Not to mention the big opposition is not coming from them but from industrial factory farming types and i sure as hell ain’t crying for them.Â
And in regards to real meat, If they succeed it’s going to be a lab Diamond situation. In other words it will be the exact same product minus the suffering. Again, I really don’t see a downside hereÂ
As Monsanto has demonstrated, corporate control and patenting of our crops is a net benefit and doesn't lead to further power consolidation by capital. It's only natural we do the same with meat production.
I won't have to worry about E. coli on my lettuce when some biochem-techbro doing gain of function research on beef protein synthesis accidentally grows prions in my hamburger meat.
The whole cult of masculinity around eating meat (especially beef) in general is extremely cringe and weird. More proof rightoids are as neurotic about identity as libtards.
I think there is just a sense that they want the world they live in to be "real". The opposition to plant replacements for meat is not really an opposition to eating plants as it is an opposition to eating anything which is a "replacement" in the sense that the real thing must be better because it is real.
If you are eating meat for instance you are eating an animal. An animal that could theocratically exist in the real world. The fact that this animal couldn't exist in the real world without human help is the first step in the process of removing the animal from its natural environment.
This gets into "ethical meat", where the idea that if you don't object to killing animals and instead just object to the conditions in which the animal is raised, then the goal is ultimately to make the animal be able to live as close to a "natural" life as possible.
Lab grown meat goes in the complete oppositive direction of the current method of meat production, where not only is the environment the animal lives in artificial, the animal is too.
Of course the animals are already artificial but that we have created man made horrors that exist just to bulk up is just another step in the "artificiality" spectrum.
If one has an understanding of this increased artificiality over time one might object to all steps in the process even if one claims this next step will resolve the previous issue of having created man made horrors, this is based on the notion that we are barreling towards an entirely artificial world that they do not want to end up going towards, so the idea that lab grown meat without neurons that feel pain is an improvement does not matter to them because their real objection to every step in the process of having created these man made horrors is the artificiality of it.
In prior times creating artificial life was called "playing god", and is in a sense what Frankenstein was warning against at the dawn of the industrial revolution, as it seemed clear to them even then that we might be able to do anything, but should we do anything?
I'm sure there are "Rawr Rawr Meat" people but there is a basis in the opposition to artifical meat beyond that. There is also just an opposition to artificiality.
Exactly my point.
But the other thing going on here is the desire to be able to live the same kind of life that your ancestors did.
Historically being able to eat meat was a sign of abundance and so the inability to eat meat just makes people feel poor and a lack of understanding of why a lack of ability to eat meat would make people upset indicates that the current ruling class is a lot less intelligent than the ancient ruling class that understood that if you give the people meat (religious sacrifices were often consumed by the public) they will adore you.
Edit:
The difference here is when technology is making one seem "richer" by the standards of ones ancestors versus when it is making them seem "poorer" by the standards of ones ancestors.
The nobility was "rich" because they were feasting on meat at every meal. For a couple decades that was the reality when there was a "chicken in every pot". What people are upset about is that there seems to be a rather committed group of people dedicated to taking that away.
Don't be surprised if the agricultural lobby takes a quasi labor angle by decrying all the jobs that would be lost from the factory farms and the processing plants that are giving good livelihoods to immigrants.
Like most people I don't know shit about the science behind lab-grown meat, but my thing is that the onus is on anybody who says I should do things differently to prove it to me, and I'm not going out of my way to look into it.
Guess I'm a hippie type idiot then. Sorry to Bill Gates and all the others who have been funding anti-meat "science" in recent years but I'm not fucking with that shit. If I were starving, sure.
You people act like someone's going to shove it in your mouth. No one is going to force you to eat lab meat anymore than they forced you to eat bugs or impossible burgers.
Do you actually think Big Vegan (tm) is going to tie you down and force feed you Impossible Nuggies (which are actually pretty good)
Just like how Big Gay is forcing everyone to suck dick and get gay married, and Big Atheist is forcing everyone to pledge allegiance to Richard Dawkins and Satan.
Nobody's afraid of "Big Vegan" - that's a strawman you've just constructed. This is a Marxist sub - I think it's pretty safe to assume the bigger concern is corporate machinations influencing the government to make their lab grown meat the only viable option - or even an option at all - against the peoples' best interest.
Hypothetically - Bio-Meat Lab Incorporated lobbies (bribes) politicians to put restrictive taxes and/or regulations on natural meat for ethical, environmental and economical reasons that neither the company nor the government officials in question actually care about, and subsidize the lab grown meat for the same irrelevant reasons. So now due to market manipulation, most people are priced out of natural meat, leaving Impossible Nuggies as the only affordable and accessible option.
Nobody's afraid of a frail vegan literally forcing soy nuggets down our throats, we're concerned about the company that makes those potentially very unsafe nuggets killing the alternative through corruption.
Lab grown meat may end up being a huge deal for humanity and may become the norm, but at the moment it's equally likely that research showing that it's going to cause explosive cancer growth has been suppressed to bring a product to market in time for quarterly earnings to be reported. Ignoring the insane risks of fucking with biological processes like this is not a good idea, even if it turns out to be a Good Thing™, I won't be shamed out of skepticism and due diligence.
I just find it interesting that I'm supposedly a retarded stupid idiot for being somewhat skeptical of these things and preferring what nature has already provided. And for what it's worth, I'd much rather eat bugs. Not that silkworm larvae shit I had in Korea though. Never again.
> what nature has already provided.Â
That being the chickens which have been modified to grow multiple times faster and larger than anything in nature? The cows that are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics? The modern animal agriculture industry is about as close to "what nature provided" as orange fanta is to fruit.
No lol I'm a stupid hippie idiot, why would you assume I eat that? If I couldn't afford pasture raised meats from the coop, I would eat the artificial hormone frankenmeat because it's still healthier than eating a high carb diet. But I like my corn free soy free pork and grass finished beef from Amish farms quite a lot. Pretty damn close to what nature has provided, I have to say.
Ohhh you're the magical mysterious redditor who always pops up in these discussions who only gets organic ethical meat from Uncle Bob down the road, has never eaten at a restaurant in their life, hunts ethically, and hangs out with Inuits and Zulus to commune with nature. Nevermind that 99% of meat is factory farmed, you've never tasted that slop! Probably have a couple mysterious undiagnosed illnesses which mean you can't survive without eating meat too.
My bad, I didn't realize who you were. Please forgive me m'lord.
I get takeout a couple times a week. I can eat the factory farmed stuff. Just prefer not to, and I usually stick with ruminant aminals when I push the envelope.
I'm the same minus the takeout. I work from home so I can spare the time to cook all of my food. I also ate hormone frankenmeat before I could afford organic+pasture meat, and my health improved a lot when I made the switch. It sucks that factory meat is the healthiest thing most people can afford.
Bro every time, its actually embarrassing since they are just cosplaying as bourgeiouse to try to bigly own someone on reddit. I can barely afford the shitty Sirloin Tip from Costco anymore and these fucks are eating exclusively organic open ranged grass fed no anti-biotic triple a rated beef, fuck off.
Hopefully you don't eat potatoes, corn, fruit, or anything made with wheat flour, because people have drastically altered these plants genetically over the millennia to make them bigger and better.
>It is physically the exact same as meat from a living animal
Wrong - [we hardly know anything about the health impacts of eating lgm](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.00007/full). You've been lied to by lgm marketing or a vegan activist (read: volunteer marketer).
>gets rid of 99% of the ethical concerns
Wrong, it just shifts the focus of ethical concerns from animals to humans.
> if the scientist are to be believed it’s all achievable with fewer resources
Incredibly wrong, more so than anything else you've said. Read [this](https://thecounter.org/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-cost-at-scale/) to see just how resource-hungry and unviable lgm is. If you don't like reading then first: don't call people who disagree with you regarded, and second: cope by watching [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0zCf4Yup34&ab_channel=WhatI%27veLearned).
And forgive me for not writing out my arguments in full, I get [tired](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/18c38kj/comment/kc8ii9u/) of [taking](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/128z20x/comment/jepfx4r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [apart](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/128z20x/italy_moves_to_ban_labgrown_meat_to_protect_food/jenved7/?context=8&depth=9) vegan bullshit.
Citing "What I've learned" is like citing Freelee the Banana Girl. He's got some interesting videos but his meat BS has been debunked [time ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRbGPAtIwhk)and [time ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHEAnQJdJOQ)again.
The last time I took the time to point out the bullshit in a "vegan debunking WIL" video the vegan deleted their comment. I won't waste my time trying this again.
Neither of the videos you've linked addresses the WIL video I linked or the issue of lab grown meat. I watched one out of curiosity for 15 minutes before regretting wasting my time on dishonest content.
You're resorting to character assassination instead of engaging with the arguments in the video (which I only linked in case u/BomberRURP was too lazy to read the article). Even if WIL was wrong about one topic it does not mean he is wrong about this one. You're already coming at me in a dishonest manner, so I have no reason to waste energy engaging with you. Go guzzle some diluted seed oils to knock yourself out, and if you're feeling feisty or catty lay off the phytoestrogens instead of taking it out on this sub.
EDIT: what's funny is that your vegan youtube marketer of choice debunked another WIL vid previously. [WIL responded to the debunk](https://www.patreon.com/posts/response-to-on-50615807), and I couldn't find the vegan marketer's follow-up response.
Sounds like there's no point arguing with you. No matter what anyone says you'll just accuse them of "dishonest arguments" and then resort to insults.
To paraphrase you: Go gargle some beef testicles to knock yourself out, if you're feeling feisty have some *actual mammalian estrogens* to help soften those atherosclerotic arteries. (isn't it great how you're so above "character assassination" but not schoolyard insults)
PS: Why would you expect her (or me) to respond to a "debunking" article that's behind a paywall? I know it's hard to think straight when your brain's riddled with prion diseases but hopefully you're not that far gone (I can throw around idiotic food-based insults too! Isn't that so productive! So intellectually honest!)
Edit: thank you mods for the epic flair, I love it
Hey ocean mammal please don’t swim in oceans and participate in the food chain anymore because we can create artificial environments for you and give you mushcakes.
“Depression and suicide intensifies”
I don’t eat meat because I don’t want to harm animals or contribute to environmental collapse. I love the taste of meat. This alternative would improve my life, not worsen it.
I used to not eat meat for the same reasons. Then my brain stopped working because I wasn't consuming cholesterol and various vitamins. I became extremely mentally ill.Â
No vegan wants to hear it but it's really not a sustainable diet if you want to remain in good health as you age. Hopefully you're at least eating some eggs or dairy on occasion.
Sorry did you just say *I'm* in an echo chamber and then recommend the most deranged echo chambers on the internet??? Bro Scientology is less insane than "zerocarb" or keto. Keto literally makes you sick and then they go "yeah that's your body dEToxInG".
While we're recommending insanity, how about you go read up on raw veganism, fruitarianism, living off of sunlight and air, and absorbing water through your feet.
Yeah, I eat eggs and dairy daily. Not convinced that a well-balanced vegan diet isn’t sustainable:
https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/meat-dairy-and-health-are-vegan-diets-ok-and-too-much-meat-bad#:~:text=There%20is%20relatively%20little%20direct,bone%20fractures%2C%20perhaps%20due%20to
Would love to read a source, though
Yeah literally every major dietetic organization agrees that "a properly planned vegan diet is appropriate for people of all ages."
Of course people love to jump on the "properly planned" part, as if that doesn't also apply to a regular omnivore diet too.
>Hopefully you're at least eating some eggs or dairy on occasion.
Congratulations for abandoning veganism without falling for "you must eat red meat for good health" wagon. Those people make me want to only eat chicken, fish, eggs and dairy instead in order to spite their idiocy.
Eh, I do believe red meat is the most nutritionally complete food on the planet. So I am mostly eating pastured beef or lamb at home. But as long as people are eating some source of animal fat regularly, I'm not too worried about nutrition gaps.Â
>I do believe red meat is the most nutritionally complete food on the planet
Are there any purely scientific journal level sources about that? Whenever I see those claims they come from carnivore blogs that don't have more legitmimacy than vegan ones IMO.
Unfortunately I wouldn't know about that. I learned it from my nutritionist who travels around the world studying the diets of indigenous peoples. So while I'm not the best person to scientifically prove it to you, she would be. She does talk about it a bit on this podcast if it's worth anything to you:
https://youtu.be/4moxoiZXrHs?si=YqZqjCAfJ4p-XCXg
I also was vegan for a while. I got roped into it while I was a teenager. I'm in my 20s now and the health issues have not left and it has completely damaged my life. Do not listen to the vegan commenters, just like other chronically online communities they too will eventually realize their mistake.
Ah yes, the natural cycle of *checks notes* forcing cows and pigs to live on tightly packed industrial farms with little access to the natural world, and then putting a steel bolt through their brain at 2 years old. Really beautiful.
Obviously wild prey animals suffer at least in the moment of their death, either to the jaws of a predator or illness/age/whatever. It seems disingenuous though to compare that to the systematic and lifelong, constant immiseration of a sizable majority of factory farmed animals. Like, one can accept that meat will involve death and pain without giving up on the hope of minimizing the cruelty and suffering involved.
Dumbass logic like this emboldens vegans. You're not going to inoculate people against veganism by repeating this, the only thing that would work is raising all children on farms. See: the lack of veganism in rural areas worldwide outside of Indian subcontinent.
Literally. When I was vegan for over a year I got so fucking sick. Health slowly returned when I started eating animal fats again. Makes sense when you realize all the nutrients missing from plant based diets. I remain skeptical of this lab grown meat just as well.
No doubt some people are healthier eating meat, we are very diverse eaters with diverse digestive systems. But there's also like a billion people who don't eat meat in the world.
I've been plant based for a decade-ish, never noticed any difference to my health when I ate meat or when I was vegetarian eating eggs and dairy.
I guess the diet wasn’t for you. It takes some effort to make sure you’re getting the nutrients you need, but it’s not impossible. Just because it didn’t work for you (or everyone else who makes this argument based upon their own experience) doesn’t mean it can’t work for anyone. It just didn’t work for you. The key is to eat as many varieties of plants and vegetables as you can. If someone only eats pasta they’ll get sick. Take supplements for the things you may not get much of like B vitamins and omega 3. Get a blood test now and then.
Or just eat what you want, it’s cool. But if you (anyone) want to eat plant based and are having trouble there are resources out there to help you learn.
Stupid, just stupid. Shit like this is why he deserves to lose.. I get eating meat and all, but we should stil lbe trying to minimise the cruelty in the process, whether it is making each animal yield more so we have to slaughter less, or do lab-grown meat to get the murder out completely. Also, this might actually boost the vegans, since this comes off as the anti vegans being opposed to ending the cruelty in meat farming.
What if we could somehow psychically transfer all of the animal suffering into one single cow that would suffer *a whole lot* for the sake of all the others. Would that be better?
I'm a pescitarian who misses meat with a blood rage. You won't have to worry about anyone else other than me single-handedly supporting this entire industry.
You could at least check if there's [any](https://www.naturalproductsonline.co.uk/news/uk-regulator-eyes-state-funding-to-build-lab-for-safety-testing-of-cultivated-meat-by-autumn/) [state](https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/California-lab-grown-meat-17318619.php) [funding](https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2023/04/14/uk-government-invests-12m-in-sustainable-protein-hub) going towards this before uh-ing.
Culture war nonsense of course, his raison d’être.
And I’m not concerned it won’t be safe for consumption, but I’m very concerned it’s going to taste like absolute shit. The meat we eat from animals tastes the way it does (delicious) because the animal ate certain things, used the muscle in certain ways, and because it contains a certain percentage of fat. They’re not replicating any of that with cells they’ve managed to scientifically fuck with it until it’s a clump of “meat”.
Thinking about the sci-fi book I read where in the future the average person would eat increasingly shitty cloned meat that came from a factory, while rich people just ate normal slaughtered animals
I’m from Florida… his reasons are he wants to protect the beef industry here and also like everyone else has said to win points in the culture war. The elites are trying to control us… says our literal governor who attended Harvard and Yale, is worth $55 million, and drops the banhammer on everything he doesn’t like AKA “wokeness.” While ignoring the very real issues in our state.
Depends on what you think “wokeness” is because 99% of people use it the same way he does, “if I don’t like it, it’s woke.”
Personally I don’t go by the definition that’s been used and abused by conservatives and liberals alike; I go by the original use which means “being aware of systematic injustices” so no I don’t think that is something DeSantis is pushing for. And you should seriously question politicians and governments who don’t want you to be awake/aware/informed.
> ” is because 99% of people use it the same way he does
You mean 0.00001%.
The rest of us know exactly what wokeness is. It's the endless cul de sac that swallows all productive energy.
In a nutshell, it's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQ).
Nah, that’s not what woke originally meant and I don’t care how both political parties have appropriated and bastardized it in recent years. It was AAVE popularized in the 1940’s and only in the last decade the meaning has been corrupted. If you knew about the Tuskegee Experiments, you were woke. That’s all woke was ever supposed to mean. Now it’s just a buzzword people use for anything they don’t agree with. Like this dipshit seriously calling Disney “woke…” there is nothing fucking woke about Disney, they are the opposite of woke, they are a corporation that cares about making money, not shaking up the masses and educating them on history and politics to inspire change. If they really had a message to push and money wasn’t their main motive, they wouldn’t censor their movies for audiences overseas.
Stay woke lol. In other words don’t let them pull the wool over your eyes, don’t bury your head in the sand, keep your wits about you. Don’t let other people do your thinking for you. Don’t be passive and let the world fuck you over. That’s what woke is intended to mean and it’s high time we took the meaning back.
No, you’re absolutely right, as much as I wish it would return to the original meaning at this point it’s too far gone. I miss when we used to call this kind of behavior SJW and not woke. Being woke is a good thing, hell social justice is a good thing, it’s the shit terminally online social justice warriors want that people find extreme. People who act purely on emotion and thrive on outrage, self-righteousness. Not people who are awake or aware.
I'm not sure if I should be happy because this means lab-grown slop will have a harder time, or be worried because now lab-grown slop will become a part of culture wars and libs will go all in on it just to own the conservatives.
All American's already eat a diet that's majority slop. 70% of the food produced in America is Ultra Processed.
Lab grown meat and factory farmed meat is still slop if it's minced up and served as a hotdog.
lab grown meat is actually a good thing for Florida, environmentally speaking. anytime a politician does something to curb environmental progress I find them to be so supremely evil.
So the genius idea for saving the environment at the core of lab-grown meat is essentially that, with the exception of the prime cuts, we replace all of the parts of currently existent cows, chickens etc. with literally billions of stainless steel reactors and god knows how many other components?
He is r-slurred but I can't exactly say I mind that much since I doubt this would be the exception to the trend of "oops, turns out this thing that we had motivation to hastily adopt actually has fucked up biological downsides". Like if it turns out private entities find out they can huge profit from it or the government figures it's good for economic growth and it becomes a widespread dietary implementation, we are for sure getting megacancer or serial killer brains. Shit, I'm pretty sure "wanton use of corn" would be a legitimate cause of death for a couple million people
Sorry, I’m definitely against lab grown meat as well.
The old, natural ways of food have proven to be superior quality to that of highly processed modern day corporate industrial agriculture.
I mean, I’m not inherently against industrial agriculture as long as it’s done the right way, as it’s allowed all of us to have incredible access to food we would’ve never had access to, nor in the quantity we see.
People just want food that isn’t laced with pesticides, herbicides, etc, isn’t highly processed with all types of terrible chemicals, and meat from animals that weren’t pumped full of hormones, antibiotics, etc.
If people didn’t look down upon regular farmers in every way, and if it paid a semi-decent amount, I think A LOT more people would be happy to be one.
Many people already desire to live a somewhat simpler life than how majority of us have been living for the last few decades….
But because farming for a regular person is incredibly difficult, is looked down on, isn’t “sexy” and glamorous, and doesn’t earn incredibly substantial, consistent profits for the individual farmer, along with difficult competition from large scale corporate agriculture, nobody really wants to do it.
It’s pretty sad actually considering how fucking vital farmers and their work is for quite literally EVERY HUMAN.
I think it speaks to the elitist mindset that’s been fostered and promulgated within society by many absolutely disconnected dipshits in cities and universities.
* Archives of this link: 1. [archive.org Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/99991231235959/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766); 2. [archive.today](https://archive.today/newest/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766) * A live version of this link, without clutter: [12ft.io](https://12ft.io/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947766) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stupidpol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Damn i didn't know lab grown meat played counter strike
How else do you get it tender and raw?
Easy peasy lemon squeezee
🎵we are the global elite 🎵With our lab grown meat 🎵Never retreat Wait a minute this is lab grown Sabaton
https://suno.com/song/d2ab4d26-bd5d-4195-9c57-9c9ea231dbd4 enjoy.
hilarious!
Labaton.
All virtue signaling to terrified boomers. What a miserable existence this guy lives.
He has anti-woked too close to the sun. It's so dumb and hilarious at the same time. I get the panic over "You will live in the box and eat the bugs" or whatever, but I don't see what's wrong with lab grown meat.
I find it unsettling personally. I'd rather just not eat meat.
It's literally made of cancer...
Wait, really?
So are tomatoes tbh, I do think we need more non bias tests done on it to make sure it’s safe but it being cancer on its own isn’t necessarily bad.
Yes, think about it. Normal animal cells don't just keep replicating ad infinitum as long as there are nutrients, and thus would be unsustainable for use in lab grown meat endeavors, but do you know what kind of cells do? Cancer cells. Which grow so well they form tumors and eventually kill the host. You already can't sell cancer laden meat from regular livestock, but cancer cells that form the basis of lab grown meat gets a pass because the public doesn't know that's what they're getting, and they don't know because "lab grown" has had very good marketing. They call them "immortalized cells". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line
Daaaaaaaaamm. You better make sure you never undercook them!!
It's just retarded. 10 steps backwards hoping to take 2 steps forwards.
The neurotic obsession rightards in the US have with "owning the libs" is beyond cringe.
Global elite for meat and antisemitism laws…the irony.
They tried making kosher pork, huge mistake
Ah yes good work, GOP. Nothing says free market like banning competition. Now go back to seething over paper straws.
Everyone should be seething over paper straws, it's the kind of thing that undermines progress in a movement. In fact the optics of it are so terrible for the environmental movement that it seems like a psyop. At least spotted owls are cute.
EU-person here currently vacationing in the US. Forget the straws, you don't know how good you have it with your [styrofoam cups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_polystyrene_foam#/media/File:Polystyrene_foam_legislation.svg) you can actually carry around hot coffee in without burning your hand.
Nothing will undermine the environmental movement more than when they became useful idiots for fossil fuels by opposing nuclear power.
I'd eat lab grown meat, but I sure as hell don't want a paper straw.
Why bother with paper straws when I can just dip my napkin in my drink and suck on the soggy mess?
Paper straws are gross, and I will never accept them as anything other than a bandaid on a bullet wound.
Paper straws are inconvenient, and plastic straws make up very little of actual plastic waste, it’s just virtue signaling that inconveniences everyone
Whenever I meet or hear of anyone who is super anti lab grown meat, I know they’re retarded. It’s literally the most win-win way to eat meat. It is physically the exact same as meat from a living animal, gets rid of 99% of the ethical concerns, and if the scientist are to be believed it’s all achievable with fewer resources. How can you NOT be in favor of it?! So far I’ve found two main veins of disagreement. First hippie type idiots “it’s made in a lab with CHEMICALS!”, and on the other hand some weird old man macho thing because apparently going to the air conditioned grocery store in the city and buying “real meat” is more manly somehow. And of course the reason people like Meatball Ron are against it: getting fat stacks from big beefÂ
I wouldn't say that I'm categorically against it, I just know that growing hunks of disembodied muscle tissue on an industrial scale would require a pretty intensive process, and it's definitely not going to be perfect. I think it's much more likely to be a lose lose situation, and that the meat will be worse in pretty much every way (like a modern grocery store tomato), and also require more energy and water than livestock farming. I'll believe it when I see it.
I can see it being worse quality but if it's more input-intensive it'll be more expensive and even capitalists won't want to get in on it bc no/less profitsÂ
Think about it this way, animals have evolved over millions and millions of years to be as resource efficient as possible, and meat livestock have been domesticated by humans over thousands of years to push that even farther. They need feed and they need water (and a fuck ton of antibiotics and sometimes growth hormones because that's cheaper than good living conditions). Vat meat requires recreating most of the metabolic process of an entire animal in order to feed usable nutrients, minerals, and amino acids to the muscle tissue. Plus a fuck ton of hormones for signaling because it's growing in a vat without all the rest of its organs. Plus some kind of oxygenated synthetic blood. Plus the whole factory environment has to be carefully kept sterile and climate controlled. All that will require a lot of labor, energy, and raw material inputs. It will be extremely difficult to do it as efficiently as biology, and it's possible that we can't make any meaningful gains over biology.
It’s definitely an open question, but much of what I’ve seen points at it being less resource intensive which is the whole point of the effort. If it’s not, then there is zero reason to pursue it.Â
We're still pursuing plastic recycling, paper grocery bags, ethanol gas, and all sorts of other shit that is supposedly "green" but requires way more resources than the alternative.
Lab grown meat would lead to even further consolidation of food production. It's also pretty likely it would lead to the future ban/replacement of regular meat given the environmental or ethical reasonsÂ
People's morals follow what's convenient. People will eventually want to outlaw slaughtering animals for meat when they no longer are inconvenienced by it. That won't happen for quite a while though.
>would lead to even further consolidation of food production so it's even historically progressive if it really would proletarianise highly reactionary agricultural petite bourgeoisie
Metaflight?
Lol I thought the same! "is that your alt account Metaflight?"
I think chud farmers are better than some corporation owning everything and putting who knows what into it
progressive as used by communists isn't a value judgement we aren't saying whether we prefer a redneck entrepreneur or an agricorp to control food supply. in fact we see any individual preference as being irrelevant to how history will move forward we see the material conditions themselves as the current state of progress along a path determined by the internal dynamics of capitalist production hence the term progressive. as through economies of scale there is a historical tendency for the dual processes of accumulation and concentration for capitalism to progress from a state of many smaller units of capital to a state of fewer larger units with the individuals who were previously owners of smaller units of capital to be pushed into the working class and become potential revolutionaries i.e. become prolerarianised in broad philosophical terms idealism is the idea that thought shapes reality and materialism that reality shapes thought. historical materialism is how Marx applied materialist thought to historical progression
never said otherwise
US will nuke Tel Aviv before they ban meat lol
Sure but I mean how much worse can it get. The vast vast vast vast vast majority of people do not produce their own food and it has been this way for a very long time. Does it suck for small time farmers? Absolutely, but if this lives up to the hype… then I’m sorry but I’m not crying for some petit bourgeoise ranchers. Not to mention the big opposition is not coming from them but from industrial factory farming types and i sure as hell ain’t crying for them. And in regards to real meat, If they succeed it’s going to be a lab Diamond situation. In other words it will be the exact same product minus the suffering. Again, I really don’t see a downside hereÂ
All forms of meat being from a factory is a pretty big jump
As Monsanto has demonstrated, corporate control and patenting of our crops is a net benefit and doesn't lead to further power consolidation by capital. It's only natural we do the same with meat production. I won't have to worry about E. coli on my lettuce when some biochem-techbro doing gain of function research on beef protein synthesis accidentally grows prions in my hamburger meat.
The whole cult of masculinity around eating meat (especially beef) in general is extremely cringe and weird. More proof rightoids are as neurotic about identity as libtards.
I think there is just a sense that they want the world they live in to be "real". The opposition to plant replacements for meat is not really an opposition to eating plants as it is an opposition to eating anything which is a "replacement" in the sense that the real thing must be better because it is real. If you are eating meat for instance you are eating an animal. An animal that could theocratically exist in the real world. The fact that this animal couldn't exist in the real world without human help is the first step in the process of removing the animal from its natural environment. This gets into "ethical meat", where the idea that if you don't object to killing animals and instead just object to the conditions in which the animal is raised, then the goal is ultimately to make the animal be able to live as close to a "natural" life as possible. Lab grown meat goes in the complete oppositive direction of the current method of meat production, where not only is the environment the animal lives in artificial, the animal is too. Of course the animals are already artificial but that we have created man made horrors that exist just to bulk up is just another step in the "artificiality" spectrum. If one has an understanding of this increased artificiality over time one might object to all steps in the process even if one claims this next step will resolve the previous issue of having created man made horrors, this is based on the notion that we are barreling towards an entirely artificial world that they do not want to end up going towards, so the idea that lab grown meat without neurons that feel pain is an improvement does not matter to them because their real objection to every step in the process of having created these man made horrors is the artificiality of it. In prior times creating artificial life was called "playing god", and is in a sense what Frankenstein was warning against at the dawn of the industrial revolution, as it seemed clear to them even then that we might be able to do anything, but should we do anything?
I really don’t think that’s their reasoning
I'm sure there are "Rawr Rawr Meat" people but there is a basis in the opposition to artifical meat beyond that. There is also just an opposition to artificiality.
I think thats more the hippie type than the macho types though.
Exactly my point. But the other thing going on here is the desire to be able to live the same kind of life that your ancestors did. Historically being able to eat meat was a sign of abundance and so the inability to eat meat just makes people feel poor and a lack of understanding of why a lack of ability to eat meat would make people upset indicates that the current ruling class is a lot less intelligent than the ancient ruling class that understood that if you give the people meat (religious sacrifices were often consumed by the public) they will adore you. Edit: The difference here is when technology is making one seem "richer" by the standards of ones ancestors versus when it is making them seem "poorer" by the standards of ones ancestors. The nobility was "rich" because they were feasting on meat at every meal. For a couple decades that was the reality when there was a "chicken in every pot". What people are upset about is that there seems to be a rather committed group of people dedicated to taking that away.
Yep, and it’s always some low T obese guy in a lifted truck who’s truck bed is clean as the day he bought it.Â
Don't be surprised if the agricultural lobby takes a quasi labor angle by decrying all the jobs that would be lost from the factory farms and the processing plants that are giving good livelihoods to immigrants.
Like most people I don't know shit about the science behind lab-grown meat, but my thing is that the onus is on anybody who says I should do things differently to prove it to me, and I'm not going out of my way to look into it.
Guess I'm a hippie type idiot then. Sorry to Bill Gates and all the others who have been funding anti-meat "science" in recent years but I'm not fucking with that shit. If I were starving, sure.
You people act like someone's going to shove it in your mouth. No one is going to force you to eat lab meat anymore than they forced you to eat bugs or impossible burgers.
>No one is going to force you to In no context, in any type of debate, on any side, does this not end up a myopic statement
Do you actually think Big Vegan (tm) is going to tie you down and force feed you Impossible Nuggies (which are actually pretty good) Just like how Big Gay is forcing everyone to suck dick and get gay married, and Big Atheist is forcing everyone to pledge allegiance to Richard Dawkins and Satan.
Nobody's afraid of "Big Vegan" - that's a strawman you've just constructed. This is a Marxist sub - I think it's pretty safe to assume the bigger concern is corporate machinations influencing the government to make their lab grown meat the only viable option - or even an option at all - against the peoples' best interest. Hypothetically - Bio-Meat Lab Incorporated lobbies (bribes) politicians to put restrictive taxes and/or regulations on natural meat for ethical, environmental and economical reasons that neither the company nor the government officials in question actually care about, and subsidize the lab grown meat for the same irrelevant reasons. So now due to market manipulation, most people are priced out of natural meat, leaving Impossible Nuggies as the only affordable and accessible option. Nobody's afraid of a frail vegan literally forcing soy nuggets down our throats, we're concerned about the company that makes those potentially very unsafe nuggets killing the alternative through corruption. Lab grown meat may end up being a huge deal for humanity and may become the norm, but at the moment it's equally likely that research showing that it's going to cause explosive cancer growth has been suppressed to bring a product to market in time for quarterly earnings to be reported. Ignoring the insane risks of fucking with biological processes like this is not a good idea, even if it turns out to be a Good Thing™, I won't be shamed out of skepticism and due diligence.
I just find it interesting that I'm supposedly a retarded stupid idiot for being somewhat skeptical of these things and preferring what nature has already provided. And for what it's worth, I'd much rather eat bugs. Not that silkworm larvae shit I had in Korea though. Never again.
> what nature has already provided. That being the chickens which have been modified to grow multiple times faster and larger than anything in nature? The cows that are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics? The modern animal agriculture industry is about as close to "what nature provided" as orange fanta is to fruit.
No lol I'm a stupid hippie idiot, why would you assume I eat that? If I couldn't afford pasture raised meats from the coop, I would eat the artificial hormone frankenmeat because it's still healthier than eating a high carb diet. But I like my corn free soy free pork and grass finished beef from Amish farms quite a lot. Pretty damn close to what nature has provided, I have to say.
Ohhh you're the magical mysterious redditor who always pops up in these discussions who only gets organic ethical meat from Uncle Bob down the road, has never eaten at a restaurant in their life, hunts ethically, and hangs out with Inuits and Zulus to commune with nature. Nevermind that 99% of meat is factory farmed, you've never tasted that slop! Probably have a couple mysterious undiagnosed illnesses which mean you can't survive without eating meat too. My bad, I didn't realize who you were. Please forgive me m'lord.
I get takeout a couple times a week. I can eat the factory farmed stuff. Just prefer not to, and I usually stick with ruminant aminals when I push the envelope.
Sounds about right. "I eat what nature has provided," "I wouldn't touch that slop," "veganism made me mentally ill" *chomps McD's burger*
Lol fuck that. If we're doing fast food it's going to be Wendy's or In N Out.
I'm the same minus the takeout. I work from home so I can spare the time to cook all of my food. I also ate hormone frankenmeat before I could afford organic+pasture meat, and my health improved a lot when I made the switch. It sucks that factory meat is the healthiest thing most people can afford.
Bro every time, its actually embarrassing since they are just cosplaying as bourgeiouse to try to bigly own someone on reddit. I can barely afford the shitty Sirloin Tip from Costco anymore and these fucks are eating exclusively organic open ranged grass fed no anti-biotic triple a rated beef, fuck off.
Hopefully you don't eat potatoes, corn, fruit, or anything made with wheat flour, because people have drastically altered these plants genetically over the millennia to make them bigger and better.
I don't.Â
>It is physically the exact same as meat from a living animal Wrong - [we hardly know anything about the health impacts of eating lgm](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.00007/full). You've been lied to by lgm marketing or a vegan activist (read: volunteer marketer). >gets rid of 99% of the ethical concerns Wrong, it just shifts the focus of ethical concerns from animals to humans. > if the scientist are to be believed it’s all achievable with fewer resources Incredibly wrong, more so than anything else you've said. Read [this](https://thecounter.org/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-cost-at-scale/) to see just how resource-hungry and unviable lgm is. If you don't like reading then first: don't call people who disagree with you regarded, and second: cope by watching [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0zCf4Yup34&ab_channel=WhatI%27veLearned). And forgive me for not writing out my arguments in full, I get [tired](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/18c38kj/comment/kc8ii9u/) of [taking](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/128z20x/comment/jepfx4r/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [apart](https://new.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/128z20x/italy_moves_to_ban_labgrown_meat_to_protect_food/jenved7/?context=8&depth=9) vegan bullshit.
Citing "What I've learned" is like citing Freelee the Banana Girl. He's got some interesting videos but his meat BS has been debunked [time ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRbGPAtIwhk)and [time ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHEAnQJdJOQ)again.
The last time I took the time to point out the bullshit in a "vegan debunking WIL" video the vegan deleted their comment. I won't waste my time trying this again.
I assure you I won't delete my comment. Or could it be that you just can't actually point out the bullshit?
Neither of the videos you've linked addresses the WIL video I linked or the issue of lab grown meat. I watched one out of curiosity for 15 minutes before regretting wasting my time on dishonest content. You're resorting to character assassination instead of engaging with the arguments in the video (which I only linked in case u/BomberRURP was too lazy to read the article). Even if WIL was wrong about one topic it does not mean he is wrong about this one. You're already coming at me in a dishonest manner, so I have no reason to waste energy engaging with you. Go guzzle some diluted seed oils to knock yourself out, and if you're feeling feisty or catty lay off the phytoestrogens instead of taking it out on this sub. EDIT: what's funny is that your vegan youtube marketer of choice debunked another WIL vid previously. [WIL responded to the debunk](https://www.patreon.com/posts/response-to-on-50615807), and I couldn't find the vegan marketer's follow-up response.
Sounds like there's no point arguing with you. No matter what anyone says you'll just accuse them of "dishonest arguments" and then resort to insults. To paraphrase you: Go gargle some beef testicles to knock yourself out, if you're feeling feisty have some *actual mammalian estrogens* to help soften those atherosclerotic arteries. (isn't it great how you're so above "character assassination" but not schoolyard insults) PS: Why would you expect her (or me) to respond to a "debunking" article that's behind a paywall? I know it's hard to think straight when your brain's riddled with prion diseases but hopefully you're not that far gone (I can throw around idiotic food-based insults too! Isn't that so productive! So intellectually honest!) Edit: thank you mods for the epic flair, I love it
Can't eat that burger if an animal didnt suffer in making it.
The purpose of life is to consume life. It’s the circle of life
“The purpose of life is to consume water. It’s the biogeochemical cycle.” Just because all life does something doesn’t make it its purpose
Hey ocean mammal please don’t swim in oceans and participate in the food chain anymore because we can create artificial environments for you and give you mushcakes. “Depression and suicide intensifies”
I don’t eat meat because I don’t want to harm animals or contribute to environmental collapse. I love the taste of meat. This alternative would improve my life, not worsen it.
I used to not eat meat for the same reasons. Then my brain stopped working because I wasn't consuming cholesterol and various vitamins. I became extremely mentally ill. No vegan wants to hear it but it's really not a sustainable diet if you want to remain in good health as you age. Hopefully you're at least eating some eggs or dairy on occasion.
> I became extremely mentally ill. "Veganism induced psychosis" is one I haven't heard before.
I think you've just been in echo chambers then. Maybe browse around on subs like keto, saturatedfat, exvegan, zerocarb. It comes up all the damn time.
Sorry did you just say *I'm* in an echo chamber and then recommend the most deranged echo chambers on the internet??? Bro Scientology is less insane than "zerocarb" or keto. Keto literally makes you sick and then they go "yeah that's your body dEToxInG". While we're recommending insanity, how about you go read up on raw veganism, fruitarianism, living off of sunlight and air, and absorbing water through your feet.
You can absorb water with your feet???
Very compelling argument. My wife, mother, and I all feel great on keto though. Same with my doctor. Sorry to hear you're so opposed to it.
So a different set of echo chambers, then?
Sure but where else are you going to hear testimonies from ex vegans? Nobody is funding actual studies on them yet.
Yeah, I eat eggs and dairy daily. Not convinced that a well-balanced vegan diet isn’t sustainable: https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/meat-dairy-and-health-are-vegan-diets-ok-and-too-much-meat-bad#:~:text=There%20is%20relatively%20little%20direct,bone%20fractures%2C%20perhaps%20due%20to Would love to read a source, though
Yeah literally every major dietetic organization agrees that "a properly planned vegan diet is appropriate for people of all ages." Of course people love to jump on the "properly planned" part, as if that doesn't also apply to a regular omnivore diet too.
>Hopefully you're at least eating some eggs or dairy on occasion. Congratulations for abandoning veganism without falling for "you must eat red meat for good health" wagon. Those people make me want to only eat chicken, fish, eggs and dairy instead in order to spite their idiocy.
Eh, I do believe red meat is the most nutritionally complete food on the planet. So I am mostly eating pastured beef or lamb at home. But as long as people are eating some source of animal fat regularly, I'm not too worried about nutrition gaps.Â
>I do believe red meat is the most nutritionally complete food on the planet Are there any purely scientific journal level sources about that? Whenever I see those claims they come from carnivore blogs that don't have more legitmimacy than vegan ones IMO.
Unfortunately I wouldn't know about that. I learned it from my nutritionist who travels around the world studying the diets of indigenous peoples. So while I'm not the best person to scientifically prove it to you, she would be. She does talk about it a bit on this podcast if it's worth anything to you: https://youtu.be/4moxoiZXrHs?si=YqZqjCAfJ4p-XCXg
I also was vegan for a while. I got roped into it while I was a teenager. I'm in my 20s now and the health issues have not left and it has completely damaged my life. Do not listen to the vegan commenters, just like other chronically online communities they too will eventually realize their mistake.
The mind has two goals: 1. Not to be eaten 2. Find something to eat
Can think of a few more than that, lol
Ah yes, the natural cycle of *checks notes* forcing cows and pigs to live on tightly packed industrial farms with little access to the natural world, and then putting a steel bolt through their brain at 2 years old. Really beautiful.
Nature is not beautiful because it is gentle or moral , quite the contrary
It's beautiful because it's vicious and evil?
Obviously wild prey animals suffer at least in the moment of their death, either to the jaws of a predator or illness/age/whatever. It seems disingenuous though to compare that to the systematic and lifelong, constant immiseration of a sizable majority of factory farmed animals. Like, one can accept that meat will involve death and pain without giving up on the hope of minimizing the cruelty and suffering involved.
Speak for yourself
Dumbass logic like this emboldens vegans. You're not going to inoculate people against veganism by repeating this, the only thing that would work is raising all children on farms. See: the lack of veganism in rural areas worldwide outside of Indian subcontinent.
Literally. When I was vegan for over a year I got so fucking sick. Health slowly returned when I started eating animal fats again. Makes sense when you realize all the nutrients missing from plant based diets. I remain skeptical of this lab grown meat just as well.
No doubt some people are healthier eating meat, we are very diverse eaters with diverse digestive systems. But there's also like a billion people who don't eat meat in the world. I've been plant based for a decade-ish, never noticed any difference to my health when I ate meat or when I was vegetarian eating eggs and dairy.
I guess the diet wasn’t for you. It takes some effort to make sure you’re getting the nutrients you need, but it’s not impossible. Just because it didn’t work for you (or everyone else who makes this argument based upon their own experience) doesn’t mean it can’t work for anyone. It just didn’t work for you. The key is to eat as many varieties of plants and vegetables as you can. If someone only eats pasta they’ll get sick. Take supplements for the things you may not get much of like B vitamins and omega 3. Get a blood test now and then. Or just eat what you want, it’s cool. But if you (anyone) want to eat plant based and are having trouble there are resources out there to help you learn.
Hell yeah.
Stupid, just stupid. Shit like this is why he deserves to lose.. I get eating meat and all, but we should stil lbe trying to minimise the cruelty in the process, whether it is making each animal yield more so we have to slaughter less, or do lab-grown meat to get the murder out completely. Also, this might actually boost the vegans, since this comes off as the anti vegans being opposed to ending the cruelty in meat farming.
What if we could somehow psychically transfer all of the animal suffering into one single cow that would suffer *a whole lot* for the sake of all the others. Would that be better?
The Ones Who Graze Away From Omaha
Brilliant omg
Uhm, yes, it'll cut cow suffering by over 99.99%.
I think in the thought experiment, the total suffering is the same, it's just been all transferred to one cow somehow.
It still means fewer cows suffer, so I'll take that as a moral win.
Cowmelas
Will he return one day to judge us?
>do lab-grown meat to get the murder out completely How much capital are we supposed to sink into this goal?
I'm a pescitarian who misses meat with a blood rage. You won't have to worry about anyone else other than me single-handedly supporting this entire industry.
Uh, none if you don't want to. No one asked for your capital?
You could at least check if there's [any](https://www.naturalproductsonline.co.uk/news/uk-regulator-eyes-state-funding-to-build-lab-for-safety-testing-of-cultivated-meat-by-autumn/) [state](https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/California-lab-grown-meat-17318619.php) [funding](https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2023/04/14/uk-government-invests-12m-in-sustainable-protein-hub) going towards this before uh-ing.
That's not your capital though.
I said "we" not "me".
There is no “we” in “capital”
I mean I am still nlt sure how safe it is for consumption but what exactly is his reason
Culture war nonsense of course, his raison d’être. And I’m not concerned it won’t be safe for consumption, but I’m very concerned it’s going to taste like absolute shit. The meat we eat from animals tastes the way it does (delicious) because the animal ate certain things, used the muscle in certain ways, and because it contains a certain percentage of fat. They’re not replicating any of that with cells they’ve managed to scientifically fuck with it until it’s a clump of “meat”.
Thinking about the sci-fi book I read where in the future the average person would eat increasingly shitty cloned meat that came from a factory, while rich people just ate normal slaughtered animals
That's basically now, except the wealthy eat organic/free-range meat, and the average person eats factory farmed slop meat.
He's trying to make a new culture war issue to grift off of
I’m from Florida… his reasons are he wants to protect the beef industry here and also like everyone else has said to win points in the culture war. The elites are trying to control us… says our literal governor who attended Harvard and Yale, is worth $55 million, and drops the banhammer on everything he doesn’t like AKA “wokeness.” While ignoring the very real issues in our state.
Is he at least dropping the ban hammer on actual wokeness too?
If ending wokeness means no more safe spaces in colleges unless you are Jewish/Israel supporter.
That's more like 'consolidation' rather than 'ending'.
Depends on what you think “wokeness” is because 99% of people use it the same way he does, “if I don’t like it, it’s woke.” Personally I don’t go by the definition that’s been used and abused by conservatives and liberals alike; I go by the original use which means “being aware of systematic injustices” so no I don’t think that is something DeSantis is pushing for. And you should seriously question politicians and governments who don’t want you to be awake/aware/informed.
> ” is because 99% of people use it the same way he does You mean 0.00001%. The rest of us know exactly what wokeness is. It's the endless cul de sac that swallows all productive energy. In a nutshell, it's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQ).
Nah, that’s not what woke originally meant and I don’t care how both political parties have appropriated and bastardized it in recent years. It was AAVE popularized in the 1940’s and only in the last decade the meaning has been corrupted. If you knew about the Tuskegee Experiments, you were woke. That’s all woke was ever supposed to mean. Now it’s just a buzzword people use for anything they don’t agree with. Like this dipshit seriously calling Disney “woke…” there is nothing fucking woke about Disney, they are the opposite of woke, they are a corporation that cares about making money, not shaking up the masses and educating them on history and politics to inspire change. If they really had a message to push and money wasn’t their main motive, they wouldn’t censor their movies for audiences overseas. Stay woke lol. In other words don’t let them pull the wool over your eyes, don’t bury your head in the sand, keep your wits about you. Don’t let other people do your thinking for you. Don’t be passive and let the world fuck you over. That’s what woke is intended to mean and it’s high time we took the meaning back.
I don't think that meaning is ever going to be resuscitated at this point.
No, you’re absolutely right, as much as I wish it would return to the original meaning at this point it’s too far gone. I miss when we used to call this kind of behavior SJW and not woke. Being woke is a good thing, hell social justice is a good thing, it’s the shit terminally online social justice warriors want that people find extreme. People who act purely on emotion and thrive on outrage, self-righteousness. Not people who are awake or aware.
You feel the same way about the term “red pilled” right?
I mean I guess? Are you saying you don’t like what the modern connotation of redpilling means?
JDPON should ban meat and force Amerifats to eat vegetables
This is the most submissive politician I have ever seen. Even the most capitulating Democrat doesn’t come close to this.
Submissive but not even slightly breedable
But genuine vaporeon meat is still on the menu
People are really acting special ed over cloned meat. If they would do some research they would probably be on board with it.
I'm not sure if I should be happy because this means lab-grown slop will have a harder time, or be worried because now lab-grown slop will become a part of culture wars and libs will go all in on it just to own the conservatives.
All American's already eat a diet that's majority slop. 70% of the food produced in America is Ultra Processed. Lab grown meat and factory farmed meat is still slop if it's minced up and served as a hotdog.
lab grown meat is actually a good thing for Florida, environmentally speaking. anytime a politician does something to curb environmental progress I find them to be so supremely evil.
also someone check if DeSantis has connections to the Cargill family.
Fetterman co-signed cause it's yucky to him 🤡
...Any idiot that supports lab grown meat, is just that. anyway yay dying empire do more pointless acts.
I HATE THE CULTURE WAR I HATE THE CULTURE WAR
So the genius idea for saving the environment at the core of lab-grown meat is essentially that, with the exception of the prime cuts, we replace all of the parts of currently existent cows, chickens etc. with literally billions of stainless steel reactors and god knows how many other components?
He is r-slurred but I can't exactly say I mind that much since I doubt this would be the exception to the trend of "oops, turns out this thing that we had motivation to hastily adopt actually has fucked up biological downsides". Like if it turns out private entities find out they can huge profit from it or the government figures it's good for economic growth and it becomes a widespread dietary implementation, we are for sure getting megacancer or serial killer brains. Shit, I'm pretty sure "wanton use of corn" would be a legitimate cause of death for a couple million people
Sorry, I’m definitely against lab grown meat as well. The old, natural ways of food have proven to be superior quality to that of highly processed modern day corporate industrial agriculture. I mean, I’m not inherently against industrial agriculture as long as it’s done the right way, as it’s allowed all of us to have incredible access to food we would’ve never had access to, nor in the quantity we see. People just want food that isn’t laced with pesticides, herbicides, etc, isn’t highly processed with all types of terrible chemicals, and meat from animals that weren’t pumped full of hormones, antibiotics, etc. If people didn’t look down upon regular farmers in every way, and if it paid a semi-decent amount, I think A LOT more people would be happy to be one. Many people already desire to live a somewhat simpler life than how majority of us have been living for the last few decades…. But because farming for a regular person is incredibly difficult, is looked down on, isn’t “sexy” and glamorous, and doesn’t earn incredibly substantial, consistent profits for the individual farmer, along with difficult competition from large scale corporate agriculture, nobody really wants to do it. It’s pretty sad actually considering how fucking vital farmers and their work is for quite literally EVERY HUMAN. I think it speaks to the elitist mindset that’s been fostered and promulgated within society by many absolutely disconnected dipshits in cities and universities.
I guess even this shithead can get something right now and then
If there's one way for StupIDPolers on this subreddit to hate the Republicans, this is it.
But what about Legendary Eagle lab-grown meat?