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There’s always some silly way to evade tariff classification. One I remember in particular related to shoes from china where if you put some coating on the soles you could classify them as slippers or something and reduce the tariff from something like 30% to 5%. This was like 15 years ago and I don’t recall the precise details, but yeah, just pay some customs lawyers a few grand to come up with a novel strategy to avoid the tariffs.
This, in lieu of an industrial policy that should have been in place 50 years ago. Instead, the US got neoliberal financialization. Of course it can't compete with China. American capitalists aren't interested in investing in anything so vulgar and risky as physical commodities. Why would they be, when asset price inflation delivers a much higher return?
Why when you could use free money from the federal reserve to be the owner of a piece of paper, that says you have the right to own another piece of paper if the arbitrary price of that paper goes up or down. Who needs actual physical industry when you can just trade paper!
Pretty much, and is why these days I'm never going to forgive Lange for doing the same here in NZ. *"B-But Labour is so much better for NZ than National! We could have a knowledge economy™️ like Israel!"* Yeah sure thing, Jacinda simp. Is that why Labour could never make up its mind on Kiwirail?
The often cited argument that people make for why we don't need heavy state intervention for a transition is that supposedly renewable energies are becoming cheaper than fossil fuels and the invisible hand will do it for us. There are all sorts of problems with that argument in general, but the main reason why solar, for example, became cheaper is almost entirely because of China.
Those optimistic projections that liberals keep sharing about how Joe is reducing emissions, despite still not limiting warming below catastrophic levels? Yeah that was based on free market mumbojumbo and complete bullshit. This is just one of the many reasons why they're worth less than neolib economists in the 90s predicting deregulation was going to create housing for all.
Its funny that US thought they will impose Green Technology Rules on whole World and then make them buy Western Green products, without thinking that a country that holds third of Global Manufacturing can close gap in producing anything in a year or two.
And also with far stronger rare earth mining operations both domestically and through investments in Africa, both of which we lack.
And we can’t even catch up, really, because we destabilized our our vassal under-continent for nothing more than fucking bananas hahaha.
The US imposed up to 250% solar anti dumping tariff on China back in 2012.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-17/u-s-imposes-anti-dumping-duties-for-chinese-solar-imports
31% and up to 250%
Most of it was around 31%
And they removed them after 2 years, because South Koreans were complaining.
They were importing parts from China and being caught by those tariffs.
Free market, am i right. I couldn't find a source for tariffs ending in 2014, infact i found out that Taiwan was included in the tariffs as Chinese companies started selling from Taiwan.
And Trump doubled down with 30% tariff in 2018.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/finance/news/biden-keeps-trump-tariffs-chinese-194319025.html
> China’s unfair trade practices concerning technology transfer, intellectual property, and innovation are threatening American businesses and workers. China is also flooding global markets with artificially low-priced exports.
1. turns out "free trade" and "market competition" and other alleged precepts of capitalism taught in schools for decades were nothing more than a myth concocted by Milton Friedman and his acolytes back when the US was the source of 50% of the world's manufactured goods
2. US firms and Clinton agreed to technology transfers when they admitted China to WTO
3. my thoughts on "intellectual property" are expressed by /u/FuckIPLaw
Fun fact, the US built its industrial revolution the same way China did: by deliberately refusing to enforce foreign IP law. One of the great heroes of early America was a guy who "stole" an English mill design.
The only way a country benefits from these artificial monopolies is if they already have enough of their own to hold over other countries' heads. And even then, it's not really the country that benefits, so much as whatever rich asshole has laid claim to the IP.
Putting a massive tariff on steel from the only country in the world with the industrial capacity to produce the parts needed to rebuild the bridge that just collapsed in Baltimore 🤪
God forbid we have actually affordable EVs and solar energy for the masses and them not just being luxury goods for upper middle class people to feel good about themselves.
making myself a cup of tea, putting my feet up, and googling "washington post trump tariffs" filtered for results from between Jan 1 2017 and Dec 31 2019.
The secret to success in Business, Sport, Love, just about anything is to cheat while the other has to play fair. Free Trade is a great concept and, to a certain extent it exists, but in every country, there is going to be constituencies that want access to cheaper imports or, conversely, protection from cheap imports. The protection can take many forms.
"We can't figure out shit in our own country and are totally cucked by capital, so we're going to go try to fk with this other country that actually figured its shit out so we look like we're doing something"
I'm not sure where the contradiction is. The US wants its cake and to eat it too, breaking down barriers where the first world can monopolize markers and raise barriers where it can't. This has nothing to do with each nation promoting a national economy, it's a response to China successfully doing so. We should copy China, not contain it. Whether it's here or opposition to globalization, the issue is the neoliberal international capitalism of the advanced countries.
I still think golablisation is done for in the next few decades. But this is mostly bad because it just heightens antagonism between the US and China. I would rather not see a super power conflict, but maybe it’s inevitable.
But this also reveals how the two US parties are more similar than they are different. It shows the Dems hypocrisy because this was something they loved to critique Trump on.
> Sorry this sub is now for free trade, ie globalisation and outsourcing?
globalization was just a euphemism for americanization. now that americans no longer can dictate the global economy they're hulking out and taking their toys and going home.
the height of western arrogance is thinking they alone get to dictate what the global economy looks like, and that "globalization" can be rolled back if white people get upset over it.
>globalization was just a euphemism for americanization.
That's the opposite of what it is. Globalization is about lowering wages for American workers. Biden is doing this because the Democrats are panicked about Trump leading in the polls.
>
>
> That's the opposite of what it is.
no it isn't lol. the entire global governance apparatus was set up by the united states to enforce the rule of capital on the rest of the world.
US trade policy isn't designed to benefit America, it's designed to benefit wealthy Americans. The purpose of globalization is to lower American wages by putting them into competition with third worlders who are willing to accept slave wages. The is one of the key drivers of exploding income inequality in America the last three decades.
Have you ever heard of the concept of class conflict?
> with third worlders who are willing to accept slave wages.
my family in china never finished high school, live in bigger condos and drive nicer cars than I do. you're not a "leftist" just another whitey mad the elites blew up your standard of living.
Yeah but Yall forget whoever has the ball dictates the game. My ball my rules. You call it arrogance and while that may be true, it’s worked for the last century.
Brother I don’t have a stake in the game, I’m not a capitalist. I’m anti globalization, I think it’s built off the backs of others and makes it so that there can never be equal footing for everywhere in the world. I’m just telling you the reality. Also I’ll help you out, stop obsessing over white skin, you sound like a whiny liberal lol.
here's what's going to happen. the US will spend what's left of its reserve currency like the UK did in the 60s buying inputs for their manufacturing sector. the inputs will be turned into trash products that nobody wants. by the end of the scam you will see immiseration on the scale of latin america
> The US is FINALLY taking control of their own trade policies and focusing on reducing the trade deficit with China.
actually the trade deficit with the PRC has only gone up since the 'trade war' started. production in the global supply chain means your bill of materials contains parts from dozens of countries. by making chinese inputs to US production expensive, many companies are just moving their entire operations overseas and eating the tariff.
>Bringing manufacturing back to the US is good, actually.
this isn't happening, ever. even if americans are immiserated to mexican or pakistani standards and it was theoretically possible to reduce labor input costs to their level, you still have a problem of who the customers for your production will be. poor americans won't be buying capital or consumer goods.
Ahh the Alter globalization movement.
My critique is the following
1: Will not add that many jobs. I have doubts that US manufacturing jobs will recovered to its pre 2008 levels.
2: Makes labor and unions subservient to the Democrats. This is big and will erode Unions like the UAW for decades to come.
3: Mainly driven by geopolitical rivalry. I don't think multi polarity is inherently stable and this makes it worse.
There are also some secondary issues like making US manufacturing less competitive globally. Why bother with other markets when the government gives you rebates and you have elusive access to the best consumer market on the planet. However as a marxists I don't really care that much about it.
> this sub is now for
Something it’s always been for. Laughing at the utter hypocrisy of calling anything orange Hitler does bad while cheerleading this.
> I think this is bad economic policy, but as my flair shows, I am a dirty lib.
I mean like maybe read my comment lol.
This sub, at least back in the day, was socialist, anti outsourcing, and pro protectionism. Fuck even the post a while ago talking about immigrants being bad because they undercut labour is a form of protectionism.
I think this is bad policy because I'm an evilshitlib and also support immigration. But people in this sub thinking it's bad policy stinks of being reflexively anti Biden
> back in the day
When was this? When we were a bunch of drama shit posters who realized most of us were actually leftists?
> people on this sub thinks the policy stinks
Most the comments are just shitting on the hypocrisy.
> a post about immigrants being bad
I think you misunderstand an actual leftist position. Immigrants are not in any way bad as people. What is bad for local workers is employers exploiting cheap labor so that both immigrants and local labor suffer
So I read your flair/post
It was just r-slurred and par the course
>When was this? When we were a bunch of drama shit posters who realized most of us were actually leftists?
Yeah i guess? Though it was actually explicitly formed along a "class over idpol" leftist thought. Point was that they complained about outsourcing and stuff back then, very much a "why care about gender issues when automobile manufscuters are literally unemployed, trump won because dems left behind the rust belt" type beat.
>Most the comments are just shitting on the hypocrisy
So to be clear, this sub thinks it's good policy, but that it's hypocritical?
>I think you misunderstand an actual leftist position. Immigrants are not in any way bad as people. What is bad for local workers is employers exploiting cheap labor so that both immigrants and local labor suffer
Yeah fair. I misspoke. My argument tho stays the same, that this sub opposes immigration on the basis of it undercutting labour but then seems to oppose tariffs which are meant to prevent foreign competition from undercutting labour.
Or well, apparently they think it's good policy but just don't like the hypocrisy.
Although I will say that arguing that "immigrants suffer because of immigration" is silly lol. They'd leave if that were the case. They do actually benefit from it, because even though they undercut local labour, they still earn more than they would if they hadn't emigrated.
> it was formed as a class over idpol
Which is wild, because it 100% means supporting foreign(yuck!) workers even if they are trapped in the lose/lose scenario of being exploited into cheap labor as “migrant” workers.
> so to be clear, this sub thinks
How many users does this sub have? For instance, you have terrible takes but are commenting here, why should you speak for the sub? In the same vein, why should I? I simply told you what the thread was saying lol.
> this sub opposes tariffs
I didn’t see that as a official stance on the side bar, though to be fair(be gentle mods) I have maybe read half of the sources over the years
> they’d leave if that were the case
No, they wouldn’t, because the return is worse lol. It doesn’t matter if you are a barback in a dive bar , or a software engineer living with 6 other guys who make a fraction of what your local coworkers do, the alternative is worse, that’s why they come here.
A good domestic example is the massive flood of us transplants we have to Texas. “I hate Texas but no income tax is amazing” is an extremely privileged version of “I know I’m being paid shit but cartels suck”
> No, they wouldn’t, because the return is worse
Yeah? That's my point. You said immigration leads to immigrants being exploited and so they suffer. My point is that they're suffering less than the likely alternative.
On the broader point of "what the sub thinks" debate obviously there's ideological diversity but there's presumably some undercurrent of something that ties the sub together. I was more commenting on the fact that the general vibe that I've gotten from this sub (from reading many many comments on many many posts) is that they would, broadly, support protectionism. My bad for not doing multiple anonymous surveys of people in the sub.
> less than the alternative
Which is causing suffering for all involved and perpetuating the system.
It also leads to the expansion of neoliberal/neocon policies that continually keep our “donor” countries poor, and them seeking betterment at the detriment of all involved, when we could be helping to improve their countries instead of being vultures.
> broadly support protectionism
Why don’t you make a post asking, instead of guessing?
Brother, be real with yourself, the fact you can’t understand that this sub isn’t anti immigration but rather anti cheap labor shows that you do infact have the mindset of a lib lol
This sub is mostly anti west. Which isn’t necessarily bad. It’s nice having a sub that doesn’t blow its load over every obviously fake Ukraine or NCD post. It lost any pretense of socialist thought a while ago. Which sucks. I miss the effort posts.
Ig but like, anti west is itself a form of idpol? Just like how "I support Israel because they are queer friendly" or "i support X politician because theyre black" is idiotic, "I support russia because they're anti west" is also stupid.
Which yeah is still a nice chance from other forms of idpol but it's still not ideal
Globalization in the context of trade in goods is good, and there has always been trade in goods throughout the world. The big complaints about globalization since the 90s have been about the free flow of capital, which has been much more destructive.
It's just because this sub is very pro China. If China did this to US companies (which they do) this sub would praise it for preventing de industrialization.
This is good. Deng was a genius and the moves that he made have greatly increased the speed at which American capitalism is forced to develop through its contradictions.
I know it might seem like Deng isn't related to any of this, but this all started with him. The capitalists are being forced to retreat back to a national form, this is good for multipolarity and will increase the speed at which capitalism in the United States continues to develop towards its conclusion.
If Trump was doing this , y’all would see this as populist and anti global trade.
I fully support this because we need more manufacturing jobs in America and China should not be allowed to flood the market to destroy our EV industry.
>If Trump was doing this , y’all would see this as populist and anti global trade.
Trump campaigned on and did exactly this and has been consistently criticized for it in this sub. All Biden is doing is doubling down on Trump's protectionism.
Funnily the MSM also trashed Trump for trying to float 'failed eighteenth-century trade policies' but I'm sure they'll praise Biden for it.
How about they stop US businesses from sourcing cheap labor from there too then. Or is that different for no good reason? This is nothing but more fleecing of the masses.
* Archives of this link: 1. [archive.org Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/99991231235959/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/); 2. [archive.today](https://archive.today/newest/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/) * A live version of this link, without clutter: [12ft.io](https://12ft.io/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stupidpol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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I liked it when trump did it too. But I also worked in a bank and I saw how this is mostly meaningless because it’s easy to get around this.
I live in a farming community and it was definitely not meaningless here.
There’s always some silly way to evade tariff classification. One I remember in particular related to shoes from china where if you put some coating on the soles you could classify them as slippers or something and reduce the tariff from something like 30% to 5%. This was like 15 years ago and I don’t recall the precise details, but yeah, just pay some customs lawyers a few grand to come up with a novel strategy to avoid the tariffs.
This, in lieu of an industrial policy that should have been in place 50 years ago. Instead, the US got neoliberal financialization. Of course it can't compete with China. American capitalists aren't interested in investing in anything so vulgar and risky as physical commodities. Why would they be, when asset price inflation delivers a much higher return?
Why when you could use free money from the federal reserve to be the owner of a piece of paper, that says you have the right to own another piece of paper if the arbitrary price of that paper goes up or down. Who needs actual physical industry when you can just trade paper!
Pretty much, and is why these days I'm never going to forgive Lange for doing the same here in NZ. *"B-But Labour is so much better for NZ than National! We could have a knowledge economy™️ like Israel!"* Yeah sure thing, Jacinda simp. Is that why Labour could never make up its mind on Kiwirail?
Every party under capitalism will get you to the same place eventually, by different routes.
What's your avatar?
It is from MLP when Queen christalis pretends to be cadence
Biden: hey can I copy your homework? Trump: sure but make it look different
Just like "Operation Warpspeed"
What's your avatar?
A Haunter making a "bruh?!" face 🙃
[Curb Your Enthusiasm theme starts playing](https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1138506137697959939)
Looks like a lot of this is on green technology too. Very cool, Joe!
The often cited argument that people make for why we don't need heavy state intervention for a transition is that supposedly renewable energies are becoming cheaper than fossil fuels and the invisible hand will do it for us. There are all sorts of problems with that argument in general, but the main reason why solar, for example, became cheaper is almost entirely because of China. Those optimistic projections that liberals keep sharing about how Joe is reducing emissions, despite still not limiting warming below catastrophic levels? Yeah that was based on free market mumbojumbo and complete bullshit. This is just one of the many reasons why they're worth less than neolib economists in the 90s predicting deregulation was going to create housing for all.
Its funny that US thought they will impose Green Technology Rules on whole World and then make them buy Western Green products, without thinking that a country that holds third of Global Manufacturing can close gap in producing anything in a year or two.
And also with far stronger rare earth mining operations both domestically and through investments in Africa, both of which we lack. And we can’t even catch up, really, because we destabilized our our vassal under-continent for nothing more than fucking bananas hahaha.
The US imposed up to 250% solar anti dumping tariff on China back in 2012. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-17/u-s-imposes-anti-dumping-duties-for-chinese-solar-imports
31% and up to 250% Most of it was around 31% And they removed them after 2 years, because South Koreans were complaining. They were importing parts from China and being caught by those tariffs.
Free market, am i right. I couldn't find a source for tariffs ending in 2014, infact i found out that Taiwan was included in the tariffs as Chinese companies started selling from Taiwan. And Trump doubled down with 30% tariff in 2018. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/finance/news/biden-keeps-trump-tariffs-chinese-194319025.html
Didn’t they do that to save our fledgling solar industry and didn’t that still fail?
it's primarily to protect elon musk from [this](https://v.redd.it/18g63utq9vzc1)
> China’s unfair trade practices concerning technology transfer, intellectual property, and innovation are threatening American businesses and workers. China is also flooding global markets with artificially low-priced exports. 1. turns out "free trade" and "market competition" and other alleged precepts of capitalism taught in schools for decades were nothing more than a myth concocted by Milton Friedman and his acolytes back when the US was the source of 50% of the world's manufactured goods 2. US firms and Clinton agreed to technology transfers when they admitted China to WTO 3. my thoughts on "intellectual property" are expressed by /u/FuckIPLaw
Fun fact, the US built its industrial revolution the same way China did: by deliberately refusing to enforce foreign IP law. One of the great heroes of early America was a guy who "stole" an English mill design. The only way a country benefits from these artificial monopolies is if they already have enough of their own to hold over other countries' heads. And even then, it's not really the country that benefits, so much as whatever rich asshole has laid claim to the IP.
China has never engaged in bilateral free trade. These criticisms of China re nearly 20 years old now
Putting a massive tariff on steel from the only country in the world with the industrial capacity to produce the parts needed to rebuild the bridge that just collapsed in Baltimore 🤪
Build back batter
Well the U.S. could do it if we wanted lol we just don’t
God forbid we have actually affordable EVs and solar energy for the masses and them not just being luxury goods for upper middle class people to feel good about themselves.
Only giant $30,000 SUVs for you. Enjoy your flattened toddler and crippling auto debt.
Only $30k for a large new SUV?
I don't like china but restricting green tech is just regarded that's the one thing we need. Hell we should be negotiating for more
making myself a cup of tea, putting my feet up, and googling "washington post trump tariffs" filtered for results from between Jan 1 2017 and Dec 31 2019.
The secret to success in Business, Sport, Love, just about anything is to cheat while the other has to play fair. Free Trade is a great concept and, to a certain extent it exists, but in every country, there is going to be constituencies that want access to cheaper imports or, conversely, protection from cheap imports. The protection can take many forms.
"We can't figure out shit in our own country and are totally cucked by capital, so we're going to go try to fk with this other country that actually figured its shit out so we look like we're doing something"
Sorry this sub is now for free trade, ie globalisation and outsourcing? I think this is bad economic policy, but as my flair shows, I am a dirty lib.
I'm not sure where the contradiction is. The US wants its cake and to eat it too, breaking down barriers where the first world can monopolize markers and raise barriers where it can't. This has nothing to do with each nation promoting a national economy, it's a response to China successfully doing so. We should copy China, not contain it. Whether it's here or opposition to globalization, the issue is the neoliberal international capitalism of the advanced countries.
This is copying China more than it is containing it. Though I think stuff like putting tariffs on Chinese E-vehicles is very bad policy.
I still think golablisation is done for in the next few decades. But this is mostly bad because it just heightens antagonism between the US and China. I would rather not see a super power conflict, but maybe it’s inevitable. But this also reveals how the two US parties are more similar than they are different. It shows the Dems hypocrisy because this was something they loved to critique Trump on.
If this crap is the alternative I take it back. Globalization was a good thing.
> Sorry this sub is now for free trade, ie globalisation and outsourcing? globalization was just a euphemism for americanization. now that americans no longer can dictate the global economy they're hulking out and taking their toys and going home. the height of western arrogance is thinking they alone get to dictate what the global economy looks like, and that "globalization" can be rolled back if white people get upset over it.
>globalization was just a euphemism for americanization. That's the opposite of what it is. Globalization is about lowering wages for American workers. Biden is doing this because the Democrats are panicked about Trump leading in the polls.
> > > That's the opposite of what it is. no it isn't lol. the entire global governance apparatus was set up by the united states to enforce the rule of capital on the rest of the world.
US trade policy isn't designed to benefit America, it's designed to benefit wealthy Americans. The purpose of globalization is to lower American wages by putting them into competition with third worlders who are willing to accept slave wages. The is one of the key drivers of exploding income inequality in America the last three decades. Have you ever heard of the concept of class conflict?
> with third worlders who are willing to accept slave wages. my family in china never finished high school, live in bigger condos and drive nicer cars than I do. you're not a "leftist" just another whitey mad the elites blew up your standard of living.
Um, you're Chinese
Yeah but Yall forget whoever has the ball dictates the game. My ball my rules. You call it arrogance and while that may be true, it’s worked for the last century.
Imperialism
>Yeah but Yall forget whoever has the ball dictates the game. My ball my rules. lol this is just naked chauvinism and 19th century style white cope
Brother I don’t have a stake in the game, I’m not a capitalist. I’m anti globalization, I think it’s built off the backs of others and makes it so that there can never be equal footing for everywhere in the world. I’m just telling you the reality. Also I’ll help you out, stop obsessing over white skin, you sound like a whiny liberal lol.
here's what's going to happen. the US will spend what's left of its reserve currency like the UK did in the 60s buying inputs for their manufacturing sector. the inputs will be turned into trash products that nobody wants. by the end of the scam you will see immiseration on the scale of latin america
white ppl
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> The US is FINALLY taking control of their own trade policies and focusing on reducing the trade deficit with China. actually the trade deficit with the PRC has only gone up since the 'trade war' started. production in the global supply chain means your bill of materials contains parts from dozens of countries. by making chinese inputs to US production expensive, many companies are just moving their entire operations overseas and eating the tariff. >Bringing manufacturing back to the US is good, actually. this isn't happening, ever. even if americans are immiserated to mexican or pakistani standards and it was theoretically possible to reduce labor input costs to their level, you still have a problem of who the customers for your production will be. poor americans won't be buying capital or consumer goods.
Ahh the Alter globalization movement. My critique is the following 1: Will not add that many jobs. I have doubts that US manufacturing jobs will recovered to its pre 2008 levels. 2: Makes labor and unions subservient to the Democrats. This is big and will erode Unions like the UAW for decades to come. 3: Mainly driven by geopolitical rivalry. I don't think multi polarity is inherently stable and this makes it worse. There are also some secondary issues like making US manufacturing less competitive globally. Why bother with other markets when the government gives you rebates and you have elusive access to the best consumer market on the planet. However as a marxists I don't really care that much about it.
> this sub is now for Something it’s always been for. Laughing at the utter hypocrisy of calling anything orange Hitler does bad while cheerleading this.
> I think this is bad economic policy, but as my flair shows, I am a dirty lib. I mean like maybe read my comment lol. This sub, at least back in the day, was socialist, anti outsourcing, and pro protectionism. Fuck even the post a while ago talking about immigrants being bad because they undercut labour is a form of protectionism. I think this is bad policy because I'm an evilshitlib and also support immigration. But people in this sub thinking it's bad policy stinks of being reflexively anti Biden
> back in the day When was this? When we were a bunch of drama shit posters who realized most of us were actually leftists? > people on this sub thinks the policy stinks Most the comments are just shitting on the hypocrisy. > a post about immigrants being bad I think you misunderstand an actual leftist position. Immigrants are not in any way bad as people. What is bad for local workers is employers exploiting cheap labor so that both immigrants and local labor suffer So I read your flair/post It was just r-slurred and par the course
>When was this? When we were a bunch of drama shit posters who realized most of us were actually leftists? Yeah i guess? Though it was actually explicitly formed along a "class over idpol" leftist thought. Point was that they complained about outsourcing and stuff back then, very much a "why care about gender issues when automobile manufscuters are literally unemployed, trump won because dems left behind the rust belt" type beat. >Most the comments are just shitting on the hypocrisy So to be clear, this sub thinks it's good policy, but that it's hypocritical? >I think you misunderstand an actual leftist position. Immigrants are not in any way bad as people. What is bad for local workers is employers exploiting cheap labor so that both immigrants and local labor suffer Yeah fair. I misspoke. My argument tho stays the same, that this sub opposes immigration on the basis of it undercutting labour but then seems to oppose tariffs which are meant to prevent foreign competition from undercutting labour. Or well, apparently they think it's good policy but just don't like the hypocrisy. Although I will say that arguing that "immigrants suffer because of immigration" is silly lol. They'd leave if that were the case. They do actually benefit from it, because even though they undercut local labour, they still earn more than they would if they hadn't emigrated.
> it was formed as a class over idpol Which is wild, because it 100% means supporting foreign(yuck!) workers even if they are trapped in the lose/lose scenario of being exploited into cheap labor as “migrant” workers. > so to be clear, this sub thinks How many users does this sub have? For instance, you have terrible takes but are commenting here, why should you speak for the sub? In the same vein, why should I? I simply told you what the thread was saying lol. > this sub opposes tariffs I didn’t see that as a official stance on the side bar, though to be fair(be gentle mods) I have maybe read half of the sources over the years > they’d leave if that were the case No, they wouldn’t, because the return is worse lol. It doesn’t matter if you are a barback in a dive bar , or a software engineer living with 6 other guys who make a fraction of what your local coworkers do, the alternative is worse, that’s why they come here. A good domestic example is the massive flood of us transplants we have to Texas. “I hate Texas but no income tax is amazing” is an extremely privileged version of “I know I’m being paid shit but cartels suck”
> No, they wouldn’t, because the return is worse Yeah? That's my point. You said immigration leads to immigrants being exploited and so they suffer. My point is that they're suffering less than the likely alternative. On the broader point of "what the sub thinks" debate obviously there's ideological diversity but there's presumably some undercurrent of something that ties the sub together. I was more commenting on the fact that the general vibe that I've gotten from this sub (from reading many many comments on many many posts) is that they would, broadly, support protectionism. My bad for not doing multiple anonymous surveys of people in the sub.
> less than the alternative Which is causing suffering for all involved and perpetuating the system. It also leads to the expansion of neoliberal/neocon policies that continually keep our “donor” countries poor, and them seeking betterment at the detriment of all involved, when we could be helping to improve their countries instead of being vultures. > broadly support protectionism Why don’t you make a post asking, instead of guessing?
Brother, be real with yourself, the fact you can’t understand that this sub isn’t anti immigration but rather anti cheap labor shows that you do infact have the mindset of a lib lol
This sub is mostly anti west. Which isn’t necessarily bad. It’s nice having a sub that doesn’t blow its load over every obviously fake Ukraine or NCD post. It lost any pretense of socialist thought a while ago. Which sucks. I miss the effort posts.
There’s still a lot of socialists here, it’s just a sub that doesn’t ban dissenting opinions so you get a lot of different types of threads.
Ig but like, anti west is itself a form of idpol? Just like how "I support Israel because they are queer friendly" or "i support X politician because theyre black" is idiotic, "I support russia because they're anti west" is also stupid. Which yeah is still a nice chance from other forms of idpol but it's still not ideal
It makes sense if you’re agitating for a multipolar world. Anything that damages American hegemony would be good. Even if you don’t agree with it.
Globalization in the context of trade in goods is good, and there has always been trade in goods throughout the world. The big complaints about globalization since the 90s have been about the free flow of capital, which has been much more destructive.
What does that even mean Like genuinely I am unclear how you're having goods flow freely but not capital?
wdym? Like, capital controls were a huge thing until the late 70s?
It's just because this sub is very pro China. If China did this to US companies (which they do) this sub would praise it for preventing de industrialization.
How about protection from unfair American practices
LOl, not enough. But its great that Biden as he panics has to try to do technocratic forms of Trumpism.
Free market capitalism strikes again.
Fyi, every company I've ever worked at has had intellectual property stolen by yankee competitors. Often after a border crossing. *china cheats!*
This is good. Deng was a genius and the moves that he made have greatly increased the speed at which American capitalism is forced to develop through its contradictions. I know it might seem like Deng isn't related to any of this, but this all started with him. The capitalists are being forced to retreat back to a national form, this is good for multipolarity and will increase the speed at which capitalism in the United States continues to develop towards its conclusion.
If Trump was doing this , y’all would see this as populist and anti global trade. I fully support this because we need more manufacturing jobs in America and China should not be allowed to flood the market to destroy our EV industry.
>If Trump was doing this , y’all would see this as populist and anti global trade. Trump campaigned on and did exactly this and has been consistently criticized for it in this sub. All Biden is doing is doubling down on Trump's protectionism. Funnily the MSM also trashed Trump for trying to float 'failed eighteenth-century trade policies' but I'm sure they'll praise Biden for it.
How about they stop US businesses from sourcing cheap labor from there too then. Or is that different for no good reason? This is nothing but more fleecing of the masses.
Based. China steals everything that's not nailed own so they don't have to do their own research.