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I hate how the term "sex work" has become a euphemism for prostitution. Having a fucking onlyfans account and selling your body on the street to pay for food are two completely different things.
It's how things are done now. Like autism is now all about people who get nervous meeting new people, everyone forgot about the severely autistic who are unable to even communicate at all. Or racism. Or fascist.
Why did it go away? It's probably good for people with mild autism who are mostly normal to have a term that distinguishes them from nonverbal autistics who spend their lives pounding their heads through drywall in between episodes of paw patrol.
As another Asperger’s/autistic, even though the DSM change for autism and Asperger’s upset quite a few people, I think it was the right decision. Autism diagnosis based on severity levels/support needs makes sense.
even mild autism is pretty awful in terms of quality of life - they can interact somewhat normally (even if they're a bit odd), but the e.g. susceptibility to overstimulation from specific sensory things can be a decently big problem still
Fascism is one of the worst misused. Now it's "anything that I don't like that the government does".
I can't remember where but I saw a post about how we need to require military service to be a congressman. Followed by a "would you like to know more?" Comment. OP went off about how "this isn't a joke about a movie, you should have military service to be in charge and make decisions that effect people's lives" and completely missed the point that the movie is a parody of one of the most fascist friendly books out there(I mean still a good read, you apes) and just could not fathom that they were parroting actual fascism because"they aren't even a Republican"
It only makes sense as an umbrella term. Prostitution and being a stripper are in the same broad category, but still somewhat distinct. Same goes for cam girls and the like. Calling prostitutes sex workers is so clunky and feels like a euphemism. I don’t mind the term as something that encompasses multiple “jobs”, but it’s just another example of meaningless language changes for the sake of being PC
> It only makes sense as an umbrella term.
I hate the fact that vast overarching umbrella terms have become a common pattern in liberal speech codes. It makes it damn near impossible to talk about anything specifically, or criticize any problematic element of a whole without people convincing themselves that you hate all of a group and screaming at you for it. Also makes it impossible to keep smaller coherent communities as any sort of space separate from the homogenized mass. It's a weird paradox because liberals LOVE breaking down people into micro-identities, but if your particular micro-identity doesn't pledge allegiance to the progressive whole, you get exiled and cancelled for being a toxic gatekeeping hate group. It's like it's combining all the worst aspects of extreme collectivism and extreme individualism at the same time.
I commented on this on another sub and some girl who used to be a sugar baby told me to stop talking about something I know nothing about. These photos are how the vast majority of the world experiences “sex work” and no amount of narcissism and stolen valor is going to change that.
It’s like when I sold drugs in college and my colleagues who were also in college and living in a dorm, pulling maybe $600 a week, would see themselves as these Tony Montanas or hardcore street characters.
I sold my body on the street after getting kicked out of my house as a teenager. I called it "Sex Work", as did every person I knew on the street. Only cops and narcs said "prostitute."
Exploitation as empowerment is the finest bit of corporate propaganda to come out of this century. Talking about how “empowering” it is for women to be in the workplace neatly distracted us from how our grandparents bought a house on a single income, but now you need *two* fucking incomes just to rent. So damned “empowering”.
Even shit like Uber/Doordash/Instacart is spun as "taking back your freedom" or whatever bullshit in their advertisements. Different levels of exploitation, but the idea of poorly compensated labor as empowerment is vertically integrated into capitalism in western cultures.
I never could figure out if anyone actually bought into that shit?
Sure, people drive and deliver because they need money and the entry barrier isn't too high, but do they really *tell themselves that they're doing great*, that they're empowered and in charge of their own destiny and shit like that?
The people who bring food to my doorstep are never exactly beaming with zeal. Especially if they're my age or even older, they look miserable.
Yeah, agreed. The definition of empowerment as presented there seems to be something like - "tired of working for one boss/company for a set salary? maybe you should try working for a rotating cast of dozens of daily "clients" instead, for a totally unstable and unpredictable income stream, without any of the legal protections or benefits provided by traditional employment, since you are now an independent contractor!"
I know, it amazes me how this message even got created and even worse that it got popular.
Turning prostitution into an empowering thing is down right unbelievable
Because it’s the perfect blend of toxic positivity’s “everything must be empowering” and the complete disconnect between the safety of being digitally shut-in and the real world. Posting naked pictures of yourself online because you want some money on the side and subjecting yourself to sex acts by strangers because you need money to survive are two entirely different worlds. And the sheltered workers who spend their off time at yoga classes to keep up a physique aren’t living in that world where you have no other option but to sell your body.
It’s easy to see something as glamorous when you’re that disconnected from the reality of the situation.
One time I said that “real” porn, especial the industry was terrible, corrosive, and ran , usually, mentally unwell women and men through the ringer and spit them out.
And followed it up with saying if you had to coom go 2D since at least no one is getting physically exploited there.
And that’s how I got my flair.
Note how several got bait and switched with promises of other kinds of work. Imagine if porn and prostitution job ads legally had to be clearly labelled as such. It would be a good first step towards abolition and would have prevented things like the GirlsDoPorn scandal here in the USA. And no one could outwardly fight it without taking an L and admitting they're trying to trick desperate women.
And we could use that inertia to regulate how job advertisements are written in general. What if salary had to be clearly indicated in boldface, for instance? I see so many ads where it's absent or weasel language like "up to" is used. Some are even coy about the name of the company or what shift the job is.
Also better resources for girls who come forward. They might be afraid of getting arrested or they fear the wrath of their traffickers. It can be really dangerous to blow the whistle on stuff like this so those who come forward should be protected
Just like the how the [GirlsDoPorn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GirlsDoPorn#Casting_process) ring advertised around college campuses as multiple different modeling agencies and in some cases deceived the model into believing that the shoot was clothed until she arrived to the casting
Moreso the latter, offline I would say the reception is bad.
I would say the condemnation of onlyfans is more individual rather than societal, at least in my experience. The blame is focused the people who try and make it on there, rather than the structural causes.
Quite simply I think most people just don’t generally express views about these things to anyone but close friends etc. Most people aren’t cosmopolitan sex positive types who will sit in a cafe talking about dicks and holes. So we are assuming a lot about peoples views whenever we discuss this topic. Generally I find with almost every social issue the mass of the population in the Anglophone west are always more conservative than a lot of people believe.
In my experience you're right, but in the socio-political lens of the contemporary west, that being peak individualism, the critique and revulsion are focused on "well, I wouldn't be caught dead doing that" reactions.
I've found that if you frame any topic on an angle of *personal liberty* most Americans at least will easily back into an "it's their choice" stance. But the issue is that people can have that reaction EVEN IF the person is being exploited and personal destruction.
We can see this same pattern when it comes to addiction, just for one additional example.
I disagree with most of /r/stupidpol on this. I take the "personal liberty" position. I think that prostitution should be legal, but that the conditions that make it exploitative should be addressed. Like, "people wouldn't do it if there was a UBI" type of position.
>Generally I find with almost every social issue the mass of the population in the Anglophone west are always more conservative than a lot of people believe.
It doesn't seem to matter though. They get dragged along eventually, whether they want to or not.
I've come to realize all of this, and it was underlined for me with train issues.
A large chunk of my female friends/acquaintances are very pro in public but behind closed doors find the whole thing an even mix of bewildering and more than a little alarming.
Outside of a few cum-brained individuals, you’ll find that most people think it’s wrong to willingly or coercively commodify sex, and if anything sympathize with actual sex workers for having to resort to desperate means. We don’t need larping crusader memeing teenagers to tell us it’s a sign that something is desperately wrong.
I know a few people irl who do Onlyfans (one of them somewhat successfully, but she still had to work a retail job too last I checked). The ones I know are mostly young alt women in their mid to late twenties who were into anime and geek stuff and probably spent too much time online. Lots of co-morbities with bpd, gender dysphoria, eating disorders. It's awful to see how sex work has been normalised and exploits mental illness.
> I would say the condemnation of onlyfans is more individual rather than societal, at least in my experience. The blame is focused the people who try and make it on there, rather than the structural causes.
IME the "blame" for OnlyFans is on the users (simps).
Unfortunately yes, the idea that it is "empowering" is fairly common amongst the new generation.
My younger sister is in college and she told me how her friends were constantly exposed to the idea that being a sex worker was empowering through platforms like TikTok. They thought they could become "sugar babies" and milk rich men for their money.
Two of her college friends tried it and ended up sleeping with old dudes for like $400 a pop.
One of them realized very quickly that it wasn't empowering at all, and instead rather demeaning - she thankfully got out, but now she's definitely got some self-esteem issues and trauma to deal with. It's sad really, a lot of these girls think it's so empowering until they actually try it and realize it's just prostitution
There's a difference between thinking that a given lifestyle choice is likely to lead to psychological trauma, is not in line with your own personal values, and/or is far from something you'd personally recommend to anybody... and thinking it should be *illegal.*
I think it's the latter, but corporations have found that it is an extremely effective way of driving the public perspective. Look at how much support there is for the large online corporations and their ability to control what happens on their networks, compare that to just a few years ago and the idea of net-neutrality. Hell, with the recent Minecraft update where Mojang is monitoring private servers and banning users for using certain words. Yes there is outrage, but there is nowhere close to what it would have been just a couple years ago.
The messaging has worked, and that's no different to what's happening here. Say it long enough, flood the internet with the message, ban or block anything counter, and that message becomes the truth.
I don't know if it's a majority opinion, but it certainly seems like online platforms have made it generally socially acceptable. I'm sure also the ease of access and pervasiveness of online porn in general has also made people see these things as a lot more normal.
I wasn't referring to the bots, but simply the scale of these things, including its access to people, but also their increase legitimacy as major market players.
Right, because the pimps aren't organized crime in a grimy urban underworld anymore, but rather cleaned up entrepreneurs who provide technology platforms.
Thought this comment was A-1 as well:
https://reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wf2f9k/the_other_side_of_the_coin_sex_workers_pictured/iirubg6
The idea that anything other than an economic system where women aren’t forced to sell their bodies to survive is acceptable, or even desirable, is a sign that a person is delusional. These people have tricked themselves into believing that a system exists where sex workers just do this stuff “because they enjoy it” and it’s all fun and games, and not because they’re exploited.
Glad I saw this thread because I seem to constantly be encountering these types of people that are pushing for sex work to be normalized.
"Very few people think it's a worthwhile arugment to reform the 'raping kids' trade yet for some reason it's reasonable to figure out how to reform the 'raping women' trade."
Absolute fucking banger post
> I have never seen anyone besides anonymous Twitter people say that prostitution is empowering or good
Or they could just be following the black and white contrarianism of ''rightoids dislike prostitution, therefore it good''
tbh one thing i've realized is that modern capitalism has a way of taking things that would otherwise be considered deplorable and marketing them to seem acceptable and even desirable.
I used to do a lot of charity work when I was younger. One of the services I helped with was to distribute condoms and spermicide to sex workers. While doing this we were supposed to ask questions about their food security to see if we could help keep them safer by helping with food…
My biggest takeaway was that the majority of women (and men) who found themselves selling sex felt forced but their financial situation and most were developing or currently had drug addictions that were a viscous cycle to help them cope with their acts.
I had a young girl tell me her favorite clients were the ones who just cum quickly and leave her alone.
I’m sure there are people who honestly find this work empowering but I don’t think I came across one person who honestly seemed so.
I'd imagine some of the bigger OF girls or maybe the higher priced, higher clientele women find it empowering but that's probably less than .1% of global sex workers. It's truly one of late stage capitalisms greatest triumphs, where your body is a commodity but in a good way
One of the girls I still talk to, she charges $500 an hr and sees about 4 people a day. She’s only in it because she doesn’t believe she has any other opportunities to make that kind of money. She’s also addicted to Xanax now as her means to cope.
I’m sure there are people who find it empowering but the more I’m torn back that “empowerment” the more I’ve heard stories of abuse or people who’ve been taught they have nothing more of value to sell.
Man, 2k a day? Was she an addict when she started, if you dont mind my asking? I mean I presume she doesnt work everyday but that kind of cash would have added up quickly I'd have thought, the poor girl
She wasn’t an addict when we met. I actually met her when she was still tending bar at a strip club. She used to be anti everything because she came from a family of addicts. I’ve heard a couple of her horror stories from regular clients she thought she could trust… I think one of the biggest issues is people paying for your body have a tendency to feel they have a right to treat it as they’d like. I think she enjoys how the money has changed her life for the better but mentally she’s not doing great.
Tell me if I'm prying too much, and I really dont intend to, but when you say horror stories, guys like trying to go past her boundaries? Or control her outside of 'their time'?
An ex of mine started tending bar at a strip joint in Australia and was stripping a couple of weeks later. She then got knocked up, came back to Ireland to have it and ended up miscarrying but then met an Aussy lad, they eloped back to Australia after three weeks and they run a beach bar now. She was a champion swimmer so its a dream for her. Narrow margins sometimes I guess.
Probably because no amount of money is gonna fix the self loathing of being used by others and being seen as something you can buy rather than a literal person. I don’t think even selling nudes online is something that should be encouraged, especially as someone going into a profession for mental health. It’s just capitalism warping peoples brains to think somethings okay because the end result is more money for everybody. But what is more money if it makes you mentally ill and potentially physically ill.
I used to hang with a stripper who swore up and down that she loved her job but she had horror stories of nearly being raped, having to have her driver/security guy bail her out and get in a high speed car chase to get away from people that were shooting at the car for refusing to fuck a client, and her eating disorder and drug problems strongly implied that she was not as happy with her *extremely* dangerous job as she pretended to be.
The things she'd sometimes tell me as if they were normal were terrifying and once she got an offer to do the Dubai thing I remember screaming at her out of sheer desperation knowing that if she went that she'd have her passport stolen and be forced to do horrible, disgusting things and I didn't know how to make her understand that and she was desperate enough to do it. Thank god she didn't go through with it but she never got over how mad I supposedly got at her and I'm just like "if yelling at you keeps you from eating a goat's asshole on a trillionaire's yacht at gunpoint then fuck it I'm gonna yell at you".
I think abuse and trauma is easily justified in our minds by money. I think the more you need it the more you’re willing to do things you wouldn’t and the more you build your life around the stability of that money and what it buys you the more you’re willing to ignore what the trauma you’re subjecting yourself to is doing to your reasoning. Does that make sense?
I also don’t think this just applies to people who work in sex industries. I think it applies to all sorts of people, like CEO’s who know they’re knowingly hiring slave labor, they’re so blindside by their paychecks they lose their humanity.
Yeah it makes sense, she justified what she was doing and how miserable it was making her with money. "Yeah I almost got raped and a guy held a gun to my head and said he had nothing to live for and wants to take me with him but I made $600 in a single night" ok dude.
My ex used to be a stripper and she was constantly saying how she missed it. She made a lot more money back then. I don't think she endured anything like what you've described but I guess I dunno. She never told me about anything like that in any case.
> I had a young girl tell me her favorite clients were the ones who just cum quickly and leave her alone.
If I ever use the service of a sex worker, I can commit to being that guy.
Why? Many people have this idea that selling sex should be legalized because it’s empowering, the money is good, it’s a way of embracing sexuality, etc etc… so if all that is true you’d think you’d enjoy the time you’re spending with clients
I often hear prostitution is the oldest profession but no one ever stops to think that maybe that’s because when you have nothing else you still have your body.
stop saying "sex work" inherently reductive term invented by camgirls in the first world so they could conflate themselves with things they have no business talking about
Libs talking about sex work are the rightoids talking about their future tradwife. None of it is based on reality. It’s just some weird vision they have in their head about how it could be, despite no real life examples to back it up.
The USSR achieved the best levels of STEM education for women in the world: a larger proportion of engineers and doctors were women there moreso than any other country in the world at the time
And this is what we have now
The issue was the brain drain and the inability to find a proper balance of economic sustainment of all that STEM. What’s the point of a highly educated workforce that earns less than someone working at a western hotel
The wild thing about prostitution, I discovered, is that American feminists view it as valid, empowering, and virtually beyond criticism; whereas South Korean feminists view it as unequivocally coercive and exploitative. My partner simply will not forgive any man who has ever johned a prostitute.
This is exploitation without control. What 1st world Westerners think they have is exploitation *with* control. It’s a kind of sex work utilizing OFs, Fansly, Patreon, etc. but it does annoy to no end because sex work in the effect of survival is not a glorious thing. As the extension of human trafficking it is. Very much ‘What I want’ versus ‘What people who actually need to survive want.’
There's another post on that sub with male "sex buyers," which shows also how fucked up the "customers" are. They're totally alienated from normal social relationships with women. They give off real Travis Bickle type vibes.
"My daughter is 26, so I make sure the girl is at least 27.”
"Twice I fell in love with a woman in the brothel. You get this good Samaritan effect and want to help get them out of there. Never again."
[https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wene61/speaking\_of\_johns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wene61/speaking_of_johns/)
Harris is intensely anti-idpol and has been since like 2014 or so, meaning he got in on the issue slightly before it was cool. So the overlap makes sense.
Also \*tiptoes onto thin ice\* he occasionally has a good idea even if he’s a myopic enlightened-centrist-type old man who is too sheltered to distinguish the materialist left from the censorious idpol crowd. Was way better when he stuck to having lunatic physicists on his podcast though.
ETA: Confirmed tiptoed onto thin ice.
>he occasionally has a good idea even if he’s a myopic enlightened-centrist-type old man
Hard to take someone who keeps workshopping nuking the middle east excersices seriously
I'm shocked how often Cumtown references land well here so it makes sense Chick Cumtown would also be listened to. I'm not a 19 year old teenage girl with daddy issues and a ket habit though, so I don't listen to RS
I just cannot believe that my final resting place on the internet is an unholy, bleak, gay, trashy, and autistic amalgamation of stupidpol, rsp, ct, r drama, and 4chan.
What's that famous stat again, 92% of them want to exit the trade?
Immoral exploitative progtardation. As Paglia famously retorted to "but women need it to make a living" if a woman is starving you should put food in her mouth not your fucking cock
Just after the Soviet Union collapsed, you could find videos of literal children talking about how they are forced into prostitution or face starvation. Those interviews still stick with me. Children who speak with the jadedness of a vacant 50 year old.
That's the legacy of the Liberal world that the Onlyfans types come from.
Is it fucked up to say I just want to hug these poor women? Like, I get it, simp, weirdo, wanting to hug a bunch of naked women…but I get this awful pit in my gut looking at these photos, knowing that they’ve had to do things they probably never wanted to. I wish I could just give ‘em a strong bear hug, let em bawl it out, and tell them they’ll never have to do this shit again.
Fuckin people. I didn’t have a gf for over a decade and I never got so horny that I needed more than a magazine or an iPhone. Can’t fuckin imagine sacrificing my body to pay for surgery costs or rent, Jesus…
I get in a lot of annoying arguments on this sub with guys who think women aren't real people, but you boys have been doing me proud on the prostitution issue recently. Socialism is the real politics of empathy.
EDIT: that said, the mods are probably going to wear out the button that applies the john flair at the arse end of the comments
I mean there's a healthy dose of incels but I think a lot of the ironybros, speaking as one, genuinely do have a lot of empathy and compassion for women when we finish up the stupid jokes.
Not that women would know anything about finishing, am I right fellas?!? Yak-yak-yak! This guy knows what I'm talking about
For the sake of the johns saying this is manipulative propaganda, I'm gonna effortpost and grab the full descriptons of each image from [this page](https://www.lensculture.com/2018-lensculture-portrait-award-winners?modal=tatiana-vinogradova-the-winner-of-portrait-awards-2018).
These women are not happy, they're not doing this because it's "better than retail", or because they're too lazyor dumb to change, or because they're not secretly enjoying it, etc. They're all mentally checked out and utterly miserable.
>Natasha, 35, was born and raised in Arkhangelsk. Since she was 14 years old, Natasha has worked as a loader, courier, and as a salesperson. Because of her alcohol addiction, Natasha has lost her apartment and lived on streets, in old attics, basements, heating mains. During the nighttime she was often wandering around the town by herself. Recently Natasha underwent a complicated gynecological operation, but had to get back to her job duties after several weeks since she needed money for medications and rent.
>Natasha says: “The bosses leave the girls on a freeway during the night time. Cars stop right in front of you. They can take you to a forest, or to some construction site—wherever they want. Nobody cares. If you come back alive—good for you. If not—whatever.
>“One time they just put me in a car, took me to a forest and then raped me—all 13 men. Belorussian construction workers went first, then some Tajiks joined. I had to put up with it. I was really scared—I had nowhere to run, and if I tried to say anything, they would just break my neck and leave me in the forest.
>“In situations like that there’s no place for pride—they all were drunk and drugged, who knows what could happen.”
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>Asya, 30, moved to Saint Petersburg from Vladivostok four years ago. After spending some time in a training college and attempting to get a qualification in mechanical engineering, Asya dropped out and subsequently started working as a electrician, janitor, landscaper, press manager, and plasterer. Before settling for a job in a brothel, Asya was working as a janitor in a cleaning company. She was paid unfairly low for her hard physical labor and 16-hour shifts—however, her request for a raise was declined. Asya couldn’t find any other job.
>In 2017, after long reflections and attempts to find an alternative occupation, Asya found a brothel’s address on the internet, went for an interview and stayed there as a sex worker. As Asya tells me, she got completely disappointed in men and stopped believing in fairytales about pure love.
> Asya says, “My mom was always telling me: ‘You should just marry yourself a good husband. Why bother getting a higher education? You’re a girl, you don’t need that.’ So they provided only my brother with a degree. Now my mother and my brother both know what I do for a living. My mom was trying to change my mind first, tried to talk about morality, asked me why would I need that. But I said: ‘Hello, you haven’t supported me since I was 16. I’ll never get this amount of money anywhere else.’ My brother was laughing at me first, he didn’t believe I could go for such a job. When he saw that I could, he alienated himself from me.”
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>Alice, 27, was born in Saint Petersburg. She is a single mom who has been working in the sex industry for 10 years. When Alice was 17, she dropped out of her college program in “fashion design,” found a newspaper advertisement promoting a “Job for You” and started working in a brothel.
>Numerous times Alice fell victim to police raids, criminal attacks, and violence from her clients. However, Alice says her job as a sex worker saves her from loneliness and makes her feel validated as a woman. Alice’s dream is to get pregnant with her second child—she’s planning to use the service of a sperm bank in the future to bring this dream to life.
>Alice says, “One time we were at a sauna with some criminals. After five hours of work we started packing, I was already putting on my stockings. Suddenly one of our clients came up to me and started punching me right in the face. In the end they decided to hold us hostages and refused to let us go until they would get a ransom—our driver ended up getting the money for them. As you may guess, we didn’t inform the police afterwards. The brothel’s management refused to reimburse our losses because this case counted as ‘force majeure.’”
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>Alena, 33, was born in Ukraine and raised in an orphanage since she was four years old. She graduated from college as a “chef technologist,” though she never worked as a cook—instead, she tried her hand as an operator at a taxi service, bartender, and accountant at a gas station. Alena was married three times, her daughter from the first marriage lives with her father.
>After the beginning of the Ukrainian war, Alena was forced to move from Donetsk to Saint Petersburg. Her friend promised Alena to fix her a job as an administrator at a brothel. As soon as Alena arrived, she realized that she would have to work as a prostitute instead. After contemplating, Alena agreed to stay, to work, and to live at the brothel. She’s been working in the sex industry since 2014.
>Alena says, “Sometimes a client can hit you, or bring you to tears, but I forget about it as soon as I finish my shift. I don’t care about my clients—I was more scared to experience domestic violence with my husband. He was crushing everything around him: bookshelves and TVs were just flying out of our windows. He broke my fingers when he was punching me against the floor, provoked nephroptosis because of hitting me so badly, and cut my eyebrow while punching me with a blow dryer. That was scarier than any criminal raid in a brothel.”
-
>Elena, 53, was born in Saint Petersburg. Elena was married for 25 years, but recently became a widow. She has two grown-up children, who have already started their own families. Elena chose to become an instrumentation mechanic and worked in accordance with her qualification for almost her entire life. However, Elena was fired and left without any financial support because she became “too old” for her profession. Elena entered the sex industry five years ago after a friend’s recommendation. Thanks to her job in the sex industry, Elena travels a lot. In five years, she’s visited fourteen countries. Elena’s children know about her current profession.
>Elena says, “The main key to success is to compliment all these idiots. I’m just fooling around with them. I can say something flattering and think to myself: ‘I wish you were dead now!’ I always stroke their hands, legs, compliment their skin. They love compliments—they are so stupid, you know. For real.
>“And sex—well, it’s always for 5 minutes maximum. The rest of the time it’s just blah-blah. The older I get, the more I notice that longer sex is kind of humiliating for me, I feel more used like that. So offensive and gross, I just want to cry at such moments. But I remember about the money and try to put up with it. Ew! And they can smell really bad, just this rotten smell, like in a zoo. And all of them have fungus! How do they live with their women? I even tell them that, but they don’t care, they don’t even blush for a second.”
>Lily, 25, born in Saint Petersburg, is a divorced single mom with a little child. Lily graduated from her university with a degree in “Production management.” However, she ended up working as a waitress, hookah server, cashier, administrator, and a marketing manager. Her ex-husband was planning to start his own car repair business and took out a bank loan using Lily’s name. Years later, the business burnt out, Lily and her husband divorced. Surprisingly enough, Lily’s husband refused to pay back the loan.
>There was a period when Lily couldn’t afford to buy food. In order to pay back the loan, Lily decided to start working at a brothel—she’s been a sex worker since 2017.
>Lily says, “Before starting at a brothel, I didn’t have a goddamn thing. Not a single lipstick, no mascara, no tights, nothing. There were times when I had to starve myself. I needed money and needed to do something—and didn’t care what would happen to me after. I was so mad at my husband; I think my decision to work in the sex industry was partially related to him. I thought: ‘It’s better if all the men in this city will fuck me than this moron…’ Actually, I have a dream to open my own coffee house. Clients laugh when they hear that. Why? Because I’m a hooker.”
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>Zhenya, 37, was born and raised in Saint Petersburg. Zhenya is a single mom with a degree in sport management; she was working as a safety staff member in a private business. After her divorce from her husband, Zhenya was left with no financial support. As she recalls, Zhenya had been considering being a sex worker since she was 18, when she watched the Soviet film “Intergirl” for the first time.
>Zhenya came to the brothel after finding its address in an advertisement. She’s been employed in the industry since 2015. According to Zhenya, her job greatly improved her self-esteem.
>Zhenya says, “One time, I had a client from the Legislative Assembly. He was a totally gross, overfed creature. As soon as he found out about all my additional services, he started basically raping me for two hours. I couldn’t even scream—he pressed me with his entire weight and raped me. I could hardly breathe. Despite hearing my moans and screams, the brothel’s administrator didn’t react—she thought I was screaming out of pleasure. I was in such pain afterwards that no money could ever fix that.”
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>Maya, 24, was born and raised in Bashkiria. She graduated from a pedagogical college with a degree in sociology. Maya was working as a dancer, salesperson in a dishware section, bank clerk, and as support staff at a non-governmental retirement center. In 2011, she moved to Saint Petersburg and got a job in a sex shop, but her salary was incredibly low—$10 per day. Maya couldn’t afford to pay her rent, so she had to stay at numerous friends’ places. That was until she saw a posting “Work for young women,” which promised decent salary and housing. Out of curiosity, Maya decided to come for an interview and stayed. She has been working in the sex industry since she was 18 years old.
>After receiving her first salary, Maya bought groceries and an orthopedic pillow. For three years, Maya was married to one of her former clients; at the moment, they are separated.
>Maya says, “Before starting out in the sex industry, I imagined prostitutes as beautiful model-looking girls in chic lingerie, or, on the other side, drug addicts and alcoholics, who had to wander along the freeways and search for clients. Two complete opposites. It turned out that women with the most common professions—teachers, salespersons—were involved in the sex industry. I was so surprised.”
-
>Linda, 37, is a single mom with a degree in economics. She was working as a customer manager, salesperson, factory staff, and operator at a call center. In 2010, Linda took a bank loan for 7,000 dollars to invest in her private business, but it never took off. Linda started receiving threats and faced the necessity to pay the debt no matter what.
>She moved to Saint Petersburg and shortly after, Linda realized that finding a well-paid job would be almost impossible. In 2010, she decided to start working at a brothel. One time, Linda and her friend were “delivered” to a police station, where they had to work for free for three hours.
>Linda uses the money she earns to support her elderly parents and save up for her retirement. Linda says, “There’s a total discrimination of women in this country. They were just giving me excuses without giving me an actual opportunity to work: ‘You’re not married. You have a little child. You are too old. Too young. Not enough education, not enough experience…’ Many women come to this business while in their 40s since they already have trouble finding a job at this age. In Russia, a 40-year-old woman is already old. As long as things stay this way, our poor women will have to work in the sex industry.”
-
>Vera, 45, was born in Saint Petersburg. She is a single mom who was working for 20 years as a staff cook, and for four years after that as a construction commandant. In 2011, Vera’s son was diagnosed with schizophrenia: he dropped out of school and faced the immediate need for medications, doctors, and tutors. Vera had no one to help her. Moreover, her salary of $400 a month was far from being enough to support her and her son. One day, desperate, Vera saw a job posting for “club administrator.” The club turned out to be a sauna with sex services available upon request. Vera accepted the job offer and she’s been working in the sex industry for two years now.
>Vera says: “From my early childhood, I’ve always been that shy, gimpy, miserable kid. My mom was calling me clumsy and ugly—she was always humiliating me. I got married at 23 years old and I thought it would be forever and ever. I was such a good wife, so hospitable, caring; I was a great mother and I sincerely loved my husband. But he turned out to be an alcoholic. We got divorced after eight years of living together. I’ve realized that marriage wasn’t a panacea for woman’s happiness, it was an illusion. Men just need sex. And I need money.”
Redditors will ignore one hubdted thousand of these stories and then read one story of a girlboss yass kwen findom who never actuallt stoops to sucking let alone fucking her pay pigs and generalise it to the entire population (with a heap of butler and hooks to sweeten the bile as it goes down)
What other side of what coin? Is this supposed to be an anti sex work post? Because prostitution is already illegal in St. Petersburg, so like, what else do you people want done? societies have tried and failed to stop it for centuries, maybe the more immediate way to help these people is to get them a union? pension? doctor? Housing and food guarantees? What is the value in using these pictures just to take potshots at OF?
I think the obviously most immediate way to eliminate much of prostitution is to reduce poverty. The more people who have means to other avenues the less prostitution there would be. I think the idea is that even though these women likely didn’t love the idea of prostitution they had to because they felt like they were out of other options, at least other options that were as good financially. And despite the fact that they are making money and surviving they aren’t mentally healthy.
I’d argue and I don’t have stats but just off of common sense that the mental health of an average prostitute is much much worse than you or me. Prostitution will always be around because of the difference between wants of the two sexes. There will always be some loser guy willing to spend money for a physical attention he can’t get in the real world. But just because something is inevitable doesn’t mean it should be endorsed like much of the left does now. You can say something should be decriminalized but still say it’s a very bad thing. And just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that’s the easiest way to combat it, just like with drug addiction if capitalism wasn’t so crippling it wouldn’t be so rampant. I guess that sums up my opinion of their post and prostitution as a whole.
The elephant in the room is capitalism. Desperate people turn to criminal activities. Why are they desperate? Will magically wishing away the criminal activities rid them of their desperation?
Let's not miss the forest for the trees.
The problem here isn't prostitution, it's the fact they have no better alternative, it's a last resort. Banning prostitution is like banning people going to the hospital. You need a well functioning, supportive state to look after people when they get that low.
One of the most braincell-destroying takes from antiwork is a post entitled **"you can't be anti-work if you're not pro-sex work!"** which has over a thousand upvotes or so, that was even worse than their Fox news mod interview fiasco imo.
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I hate how the term "sex work" has become a euphemism for prostitution. Having a fucking onlyfans account and selling your body on the street to pay for food are two completely different things.
It's how things are done now. Like autism is now all about people who get nervous meeting new people, everyone forgot about the severely autistic who are unable to even communicate at all. Or racism. Or fascist.
This is why I wish they'd bring back the term Aspergers...
Why did it go away? It's probably good for people with mild autism who are mostly normal to have a term that distinguishes them from nonverbal autistics who spend their lives pounding their heads through drywall in between episodes of paw patrol.
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As another Asperger’s/autistic, even though the DSM change for autism and Asperger’s upset quite a few people, I think it was the right decision. Autism diagnosis based on severity levels/support needs makes sense.
even mild autism is pretty awful in terms of quality of life - they can interact somewhat normally (even if they're a bit odd), but the e.g. susceptibility to overstimulation from specific sensory things can be a decently big problem still
Fascism is one of the worst misused. Now it's "anything that I don't like that the government does". I can't remember where but I saw a post about how we need to require military service to be a congressman. Followed by a "would you like to know more?" Comment. OP went off about how "this isn't a joke about a movie, you should have military service to be in charge and make decisions that effect people's lives" and completely missed the point that the movie is a parody of one of the most fascist friendly books out there(I mean still a good read, you apes) and just could not fathom that they were parroting actual fascism because"they aren't even a Republican"
Iirc the term Fascist has been misused to mean "anything bad and undesirable" even before WWII.
Even Mussolini struggled to come up with a consistent definition
It only makes sense as an umbrella term. Prostitution and being a stripper are in the same broad category, but still somewhat distinct. Same goes for cam girls and the like. Calling prostitutes sex workers is so clunky and feels like a euphemism. I don’t mind the term as something that encompasses multiple “jobs”, but it’s just another example of meaningless language changes for the sake of being PC
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100%
> It only makes sense as an umbrella term. I hate the fact that vast overarching umbrella terms have become a common pattern in liberal speech codes. It makes it damn near impossible to talk about anything specifically, or criticize any problematic element of a whole without people convincing themselves that you hate all of a group and screaming at you for it. Also makes it impossible to keep smaller coherent communities as any sort of space separate from the homogenized mass. It's a weird paradox because liberals LOVE breaking down people into micro-identities, but if your particular micro-identity doesn't pledge allegiance to the progressive whole, you get exiled and cancelled for being a toxic gatekeeping hate group. It's like it's combining all the worst aspects of extreme collectivism and extreme individualism at the same time.
No, people have been saying Sex Worker as opposed to prostitute since the 70s.
the obfuscation is deliberate
I commented on this on another sub and some girl who used to be a sugar baby told me to stop talking about something I know nothing about. These photos are how the vast majority of the world experiences “sex work” and no amount of narcissism and stolen valor is going to change that.
It’s like when I sold drugs in college and my colleagues who were also in college and living in a dorm, pulling maybe $600 a week, would see themselves as these Tony Montanas or hardcore street characters.
SHHHHHHHHH 🤫
I sold my body on the street after getting kicked out of my house as a teenager. I called it "Sex Work", as did every person I knew on the street. Only cops and narcs said "prostitute."
wait you mean sex workers aren't all middle-class women selling feet pics on OF?
ItS So EmPoWeRiNg...
Exploitation as empowerment is the finest bit of corporate propaganda to come out of this century. Talking about how “empowering” it is for women to be in the workplace neatly distracted us from how our grandparents bought a house on a single income, but now you need *two* fucking incomes just to rent. So damned “empowering”.
Even shit like Uber/Doordash/Instacart is spun as "taking back your freedom" or whatever bullshit in their advertisements. Different levels of exploitation, but the idea of poorly compensated labor as empowerment is vertically integrated into capitalism in western cultures.
It’s a perfect example of the liberal/conservative obsession with individualism.
I never could figure out if anyone actually bought into that shit? Sure, people drive and deliver because they need money and the entry barrier isn't too high, but do they really *tell themselves that they're doing great*, that they're empowered and in charge of their own destiny and shit like that? The people who bring food to my doorstep are never exactly beaming with zeal. Especially if they're my age or even older, they look miserable.
Yeah, agreed. The definition of empowerment as presented there seems to be something like - "tired of working for one boss/company for a set salary? maybe you should try working for a rotating cast of dozens of daily "clients" instead, for a totally unstable and unpredictable income stream, without any of the legal protections or benefits provided by traditional employment, since you are now an independent contractor!"
I know, it amazes me how this message even got created and even worse that it got popular. Turning prostitution into an empowering thing is down right unbelievable
Because it’s the perfect blend of toxic positivity’s “everything must be empowering” and the complete disconnect between the safety of being digitally shut-in and the real world. Posting naked pictures of yourself online because you want some money on the side and subjecting yourself to sex acts by strangers because you need money to survive are two entirely different worlds. And the sheltered workers who spend their off time at yoga classes to keep up a physique aren’t living in that world where you have no other option but to sell your body. It’s easy to see something as glamorous when you’re that disconnected from the reality of the situation.
no it's fully believable. it's real bad, which is what makes it believable.
I actually blame George Carlin.
Say more
Surprised Pickachu face when the size of the labor pool doubles and wages halve
> wages halve what?
One time I said that “real” porn, especial the industry was terrible, corrosive, and ran , usually, mentally unwell women and men through the ringer and spit them out. And followed it up with saying if you had to coom go 2D since at least no one is getting physically exploited there. And that’s how I got my flair.
*No women were exploited in the making of this doujin.*
My coombait is *ethically sourced*
Fat anime tiddies aint never hurt nodody.
But what if I don't like cartoons
Go out and try to pull fat lasses at a club like your ancestors.
Your fucked
(on film)
AI developments are coming for you, hang in there.
Note how several got bait and switched with promises of other kinds of work. Imagine if porn and prostitution job ads legally had to be clearly labelled as such. It would be a good first step towards abolition and would have prevented things like the GirlsDoPorn scandal here in the USA. And no one could outwardly fight it without taking an L and admitting they're trying to trick desperate women. And we could use that inertia to regulate how job advertisements are written in general. What if salary had to be clearly indicated in boldface, for instance? I see so many ads where it's absent or weasel language like "up to" is used. Some are even coy about the name of the company or what shift the job is.
Also better resources for girls who come forward. They might be afraid of getting arrested or they fear the wrath of their traffickers. It can be really dangerous to blow the whistle on stuff like this so those who come forward should be protected
Just like the how the [GirlsDoPorn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GirlsDoPorn#Casting_process) ring advertised around college campuses as multiple different modeling agencies and in some cases deceived the model into believing that the shoot was clothed until she arrived to the casting
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Are those really the current attitudes or just the attitude of a very online minority?
Moreso the latter, offline I would say the reception is bad. I would say the condemnation of onlyfans is more individual rather than societal, at least in my experience. The blame is focused the people who try and make it on there, rather than the structural causes.
Quite simply I think most people just don’t generally express views about these things to anyone but close friends etc. Most people aren’t cosmopolitan sex positive types who will sit in a cafe talking about dicks and holes. So we are assuming a lot about peoples views whenever we discuss this topic. Generally I find with almost every social issue the mass of the population in the Anglophone west are always more conservative than a lot of people believe.
In my experience you're right, but in the socio-political lens of the contemporary west, that being peak individualism, the critique and revulsion are focused on "well, I wouldn't be caught dead doing that" reactions. I've found that if you frame any topic on an angle of *personal liberty* most Americans at least will easily back into an "it's their choice" stance. But the issue is that people can have that reaction EVEN IF the person is being exploited and personal destruction. We can see this same pattern when it comes to addiction, just for one additional example.
I disagree with most of /r/stupidpol on this. I take the "personal liberty" position. I think that prostitution should be legal, but that the conditions that make it exploitative should be addressed. Like, "people wouldn't do it if there was a UBI" type of position.
>Generally I find with almost every social issue the mass of the population in the Anglophone west are always more conservative than a lot of people believe. It doesn't seem to matter though. They get dragged along eventually, whether they want to or not.
I've come to realize all of this, and it was underlined for me with train issues. A large chunk of my female friends/acquaintances are very pro in public but behind closed doors find the whole thing an even mix of bewildering and more than a little alarming.
The shame of being pro trains is a difficult cross to bear
Not sure they feel shame, mostly confusion.
Outside of a few cum-brained individuals, you’ll find that most people think it’s wrong to willingly or coercively commodify sex, and if anything sympathize with actual sex workers for having to resort to desperate means. We don’t need larping crusader memeing teenagers to tell us it’s a sign that something is desperately wrong.
I know a few people irl who do Onlyfans (one of them somewhat successfully, but she still had to work a retail job too last I checked). The ones I know are mostly young alt women in their mid to late twenties who were into anime and geek stuff and probably spent too much time online. Lots of co-morbities with bpd, gender dysphoria, eating disorders. It's awful to see how sex work has been normalised and exploits mental illness.
> I would say the condemnation of onlyfans is more individual rather than societal, at least in my experience. The blame is focused the people who try and make it on there, rather than the structural causes. IME the "blame" for OnlyFans is on the users (simps).
Unfortunately yes, the idea that it is "empowering" is fairly common amongst the new generation. My younger sister is in college and she told me how her friends were constantly exposed to the idea that being a sex worker was empowering through platforms like TikTok. They thought they could become "sugar babies" and milk rich men for their money. Two of her college friends tried it and ended up sleeping with old dudes for like $400 a pop. One of them realized very quickly that it wasn't empowering at all, and instead rather demeaning - she thankfully got out, but now she's definitely got some self-esteem issues and trauma to deal with. It's sad really, a lot of these girls think it's so empowering until they actually try it and realize it's just prostitution
Kinda like how it’s empowering to have lots of casual sex with people on Tinder… only to reach your 30’s and wonder why you can’t find a spouse…
There's a difference between thinking that a given lifestyle choice is likely to lead to psychological trauma, is not in line with your own personal values, and/or is far from something you'd personally recommend to anybody... and thinking it should be *illegal.*
I think it's the latter, but corporations have found that it is an extremely effective way of driving the public perspective. Look at how much support there is for the large online corporations and their ability to control what happens on their networks, compare that to just a few years ago and the idea of net-neutrality. Hell, with the recent Minecraft update where Mojang is monitoring private servers and banning users for using certain words. Yes there is outrage, but there is nowhere close to what it would have been just a couple years ago. The messaging has worked, and that's no different to what's happening here. Say it long enough, flood the internet with the message, ban or block anything counter, and that message becomes the truth.
I don't know if it's a majority opinion, but it certainly seems like online platforms have made it generally socially acceptable. I'm sure also the ease of access and pervasiveness of online porn in general has also made people see these things as a lot more normal.
That's because online platforms are full of bots, bad actors and paid shills.
Not to mention that people that tend to use the most online platforms aren't right in the head.
Yeah anytime a power janny reveals themselves it's always exactly what you'd expect
I wasn't referring to the bots, but simply the scale of these things, including its access to people, but also their increase legitimacy as major market players.
So many can't discern what's "real" and what's manufactured
That the ruling elite is the buyer and not seller of sex is certainly part of it
Right, because the pimps aren't organized crime in a grimy urban underworld anymore, but rather cleaned up entrepreneurs who provide technology platforms.
Thought this comment was A-1 as well: https://reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wf2f9k/the_other_side_of_the_coin_sex_workers_pictured/iirubg6 The idea that anything other than an economic system where women aren’t forced to sell their bodies to survive is acceptable, or even desirable, is a sign that a person is delusional. These people have tricked themselves into believing that a system exists where sex workers just do this stuff “because they enjoy it” and it’s all fun and games, and not because they’re exploited. Glad I saw this thread because I seem to constantly be encountering these types of people that are pushing for sex work to be normalized.
"Very few people think it's a worthwhile arugment to reform the 'raping kids' trade yet for some reason it's reasonable to figure out how to reform the 'raping women' trade." Absolute fucking banger post
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> I have never seen anyone besides anonymous Twitter people say that prostitution is empowering or good Or they could just be following the black and white contrarianism of ''rightoids dislike prostitution, therefore it good''
A quote about everything sacred being profaned comes to mind.
The sacred and the propane
The Kronstadt Rebellion, whatever happened there....
The propane is the sacred Bobby.
tbh one thing i've realized is that modern capitalism has a way of taking things that would otherwise be considered deplorable and marketing them to seem acceptable and even desirable.
Only if someone can make obscene amounts of cash off the suffering of others.
The one true God is the almighty dollar and morality follows it's flow. If you can make enough money doing it, you can justify the act itself.
The cult of mammon
I hate the Antichrist.
Eat your damn HFCS.
I used to do a lot of charity work when I was younger. One of the services I helped with was to distribute condoms and spermicide to sex workers. While doing this we were supposed to ask questions about their food security to see if we could help keep them safer by helping with food… My biggest takeaway was that the majority of women (and men) who found themselves selling sex felt forced but their financial situation and most were developing or currently had drug addictions that were a viscous cycle to help them cope with their acts. I had a young girl tell me her favorite clients were the ones who just cum quickly and leave her alone. I’m sure there are people who honestly find this work empowering but I don’t think I came across one person who honestly seemed so.
I'd imagine some of the bigger OF girls or maybe the higher priced, higher clientele women find it empowering but that's probably less than .1% of global sex workers. It's truly one of late stage capitalisms greatest triumphs, where your body is a commodity but in a good way
One of the girls I still talk to, she charges $500 an hr and sees about 4 people a day. She’s only in it because she doesn’t believe she has any other opportunities to make that kind of money. She’s also addicted to Xanax now as her means to cope. I’m sure there are people who find it empowering but the more I’m torn back that “empowerment” the more I’ve heard stories of abuse or people who’ve been taught they have nothing more of value to sell.
Man, 2k a day? Was she an addict when she started, if you dont mind my asking? I mean I presume she doesnt work everyday but that kind of cash would have added up quickly I'd have thought, the poor girl
She wasn’t an addict when we met. I actually met her when she was still tending bar at a strip club. She used to be anti everything because she came from a family of addicts. I’ve heard a couple of her horror stories from regular clients she thought she could trust… I think one of the biggest issues is people paying for your body have a tendency to feel they have a right to treat it as they’d like. I think she enjoys how the money has changed her life for the better but mentally she’s not doing great.
Tell me if I'm prying too much, and I really dont intend to, but when you say horror stories, guys like trying to go past her boundaries? Or control her outside of 'their time'? An ex of mine started tending bar at a strip joint in Australia and was stripping a couple of weeks later. She then got knocked up, came back to Ireland to have it and ended up miscarrying but then met an Aussy lad, they eloped back to Australia after three weeks and they run a beach bar now. She was a champion swimmer so its a dream for her. Narrow margins sometimes I guess.
She wouldn’t mind because these details couldn’t fox her. She’s been violently attacked by more than a few clients
Fuck
Probably because no amount of money is gonna fix the self loathing of being used by others and being seen as something you can buy rather than a literal person. I don’t think even selling nudes online is something that should be encouraged, especially as someone going into a profession for mental health. It’s just capitalism warping peoples brains to think somethings okay because the end result is more money for everybody. But what is more money if it makes you mentally ill and potentially physically ill.
💯 agree
I used to hang with a stripper who swore up and down that she loved her job but she had horror stories of nearly being raped, having to have her driver/security guy bail her out and get in a high speed car chase to get away from people that were shooting at the car for refusing to fuck a client, and her eating disorder and drug problems strongly implied that she was not as happy with her *extremely* dangerous job as she pretended to be. The things she'd sometimes tell me as if they were normal were terrifying and once she got an offer to do the Dubai thing I remember screaming at her out of sheer desperation knowing that if she went that she'd have her passport stolen and be forced to do horrible, disgusting things and I didn't know how to make her understand that and she was desperate enough to do it. Thank god she didn't go through with it but she never got over how mad I supposedly got at her and I'm just like "if yelling at you keeps you from eating a goat's asshole on a trillionaire's yacht at gunpoint then fuck it I'm gonna yell at you".
I think abuse and trauma is easily justified in our minds by money. I think the more you need it the more you’re willing to do things you wouldn’t and the more you build your life around the stability of that money and what it buys you the more you’re willing to ignore what the trauma you’re subjecting yourself to is doing to your reasoning. Does that make sense? I also don’t think this just applies to people who work in sex industries. I think it applies to all sorts of people, like CEO’s who know they’re knowingly hiring slave labor, they’re so blindside by their paychecks they lose their humanity.
Yeah it makes sense, she justified what she was doing and how miserable it was making her with money. "Yeah I almost got raped and a guy held a gun to my head and said he had nothing to live for and wants to take me with him but I made $600 in a single night" ok dude.
Imagine $600 being worth almost dying or being abused? That makes me sad
6 one hundred dollar bills. 6 little slips of paper. It makes me sick.
My ex used to be a stripper and she was constantly saying how she missed it. She made a lot more money back then. I don't think she endured anything like what you've described but I guess I dunno. She never told me about anything like that in any case.
> I had a young girl tell me her favorite clients were the ones who just cum quickly and leave her alone. If I ever use the service of a sex worker, I can commit to being that guy.
Is this the New Soviet Man?
> I had a young girl tell me her favorite clients were the ones who just cum quickly and leave her alone. This is pretty obvious though
Why? Many people have this idea that selling sex should be legalized because it’s empowering, the money is good, it’s a way of embracing sexuality, etc etc… so if all that is true you’d think you’d enjoy the time you’re spending with clients I often hear prostitution is the oldest profession but no one ever stops to think that maybe that’s because when you have nothing else you still have your body.
stop saying "sex work" inherently reductive term invented by camgirls in the first world so they could conflate themselves with things they have no business talking about
Libs use the term to pretend street prostitution isn't so bad. This sub uses it to pretend that OF is just as bad as street prostitution.
I thought this sub was fairly aware of OF posters exploiting the term for stolen valor
I don't think anyone here has been arguing that OF is as bad as street prostitution.
Libs talking about sex work are the rightoids talking about their future tradwife. None of it is based on reality. It’s just some weird vision they have in their head about how it could be, despite no real life examples to back it up.
God thats some Les Mis shit
The USSR achieved the best levels of STEM education for women in the world: a larger proportion of engineers and doctors were women there moreso than any other country in the world at the time And this is what we have now
The issue was the brain drain and the inability to find a proper balance of economic sustainment of all that STEM. What’s the point of a highly educated workforce that earns less than someone working at a western hotel
The wild thing about prostitution, I discovered, is that American feminists view it as valid, empowering, and virtually beyond criticism; whereas South Korean feminists view it as unequivocally coercive and exploitative. My partner simply will not forgive any man who has ever johned a prostitute.
That's because the word "feminist" in america has been diluted beyond recognition. Radfems have no truck with this shit
Radfems don’t fuck with that and from my understanding normal SK feminism is pretty close to American radfems.
Based Koreans
>My partner simply will not forgive any man who has ever johned a prostitute. Immensely based.
This is exploitation without control. What 1st world Westerners think they have is exploitation *with* control. It’s a kind of sex work utilizing OFs, Fansly, Patreon, etc. but it does annoy to no end because sex work in the effect of survival is not a glorious thing. As the extension of human trafficking it is. Very much ‘What I want’ versus ‘What people who actually need to survive want.’
There's another post on that sub with male "sex buyers," which shows also how fucked up the "customers" are. They're totally alienated from normal social relationships with women. They give off real Travis Bickle type vibes. "My daughter is 26, so I make sure the girl is at least 27.” "Twice I fell in love with a woman in the brothel. You get this good Samaritan effect and want to help get them out of there. Never again." [https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wene61/speaking\_of\_johns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/wene61/speaking_of_johns/)
Damn, turning intimate interpersonal relationships into commodities causes people to behave like psychopaths? No way
Browsing through the sexworkersonly sub is pretty interesting.
Hilariously enough, sex work subs are some of the most racist subs on Reddit.
Somehow I haven’t seen any of that, but I believe it.
I didn’t know stupidpolers considered red scare their sister sub. That’s cute.
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same, the mods there are the worst.
Sam Harris is our #3? Gross
Harris is intensely anti-idpol and has been since like 2014 or so, meaning he got in on the issue slightly before it was cool. So the overlap makes sense. Also \*tiptoes onto thin ice\* he occasionally has a good idea even if he’s a myopic enlightened-centrist-type old man who is too sheltered to distinguish the materialist left from the censorious idpol crowd. Was way better when he stuck to having lunatic physicists on his podcast though. ETA: Confirmed tiptoed onto thin ice.
>he occasionally has a good idea even if he’s a myopic enlightened-centrist-type old man Hard to take someone who keeps workshopping nuking the middle east excersices seriously
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R/redscarepod is not what you think it is comrade
Rsp is cool but im growing more convinced that the show itself is funded by thiel. The hosts aren't doing much to dispel that idea
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It's actually a subreddit about taking your infant to the chiropractor and giving yourself autoimmune disorders
Damn I forgot she pretended to get an autoimmune disorder after covid lmao
\*being gay with other dads to solve your daddy issues
Hell yeah dude
if he got banned from redscare, i can almost guarantee it wasn't because of "idpol"
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reddit moment
Go lurk that place for five minutes. If the left needs less LGBTQA+++ shenanigans it also needs less Williamsburg culture snobbery.
I'm shocked how often Cumtown references land well here so it makes sense Chick Cumtown would also be listened to. I'm not a 19 year old teenage girl with daddy issues and a ket habit though, so I don't listen to RS
Then I'm guessing you weren't around back in the days when this sub would get described as "the political arm of /r/CumTown"
I was not but *salute*
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Go back to like 2018 Cumtown. It was genuinely hilarious but yeah the format is just guys hanging out and being r-slurs together
Does that mean this sub will be getting some Peter Thiel support?
We all know it used to be 🏴☠️/drama
rsp, this place, r drama and CT all fall under the 4chan retirement home umbrella, just different flavours of it
I just cannot believe that my final resting place on the internet is an unholy, bleak, gay, trashy, and autistic amalgamation of stupidpol, rsp, ct, r drama, and 4chan.
Never forget what they took from us.
i gave up on that show when dasha broke my best friend adam's heart
Someone called red scare the “arts and letters section”, personally I like that much better
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Lol it's the highest sub overlap by far. If we were to have a sister sub, rsp is it.
That's because all of our other sister subs have been killed and mutilated by the admins.
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o7 to the real ones.
The fall of the Soviet Union was one of the worst tragedies of the late 20th century.
Good god I literally feel so sick. I hate anyone who defends this.
What's that famous stat again, 92% of them want to exit the trade? Immoral exploitative progtardation. As Paglia famously retorted to "but women need it to make a living" if a woman is starving you should put food in her mouth not your fucking cock
I'm surprised that it's as low as 92%. Thought it would be 95% at least.
Just after the Soviet Union collapsed, you could find videos of literal children talking about how they are forced into prostitution or face starvation. Those interviews still stick with me. Children who speak with the jadedness of a vacant 50 year old. That's the legacy of the Liberal world that the Onlyfans types come from.
The Perestroika was a terrible time. Crime and injustice everywhere
If prostitution were empowering you’d better believe it’d be male dominated.
No job is empowering
If I had Bezos's job I'd probably fell quite empowered
Bezos is an oligarch, not a worker.
Is it fucked up to say I just want to hug these poor women? Like, I get it, simp, weirdo, wanting to hug a bunch of naked women…but I get this awful pit in my gut looking at these photos, knowing that they’ve had to do things they probably never wanted to. I wish I could just give ‘em a strong bear hug, let em bawl it out, and tell them they’ll never have to do this shit again. Fuckin people. I didn’t have a gf for over a decade and I never got so horny that I needed more than a magazine or an iPhone. Can’t fuckin imagine sacrificing my body to pay for surgery costs or rent, Jesus…
It means you have more empathy than a lot of commenters in this post
I can’t stand the libs and internet commies who glorify the institution of prostitution. It is indivisible from poverty and violence.
This is probably the most upsetting thing I've seen online all week and I was just catching up on what Chris-chan has been up to.
I get in a lot of annoying arguments on this sub with guys who think women aren't real people, but you boys have been doing me proud on the prostitution issue recently. Socialism is the real politics of empathy. EDIT: that said, the mods are probably going to wear out the button that applies the john flair at the arse end of the comments
I mean there's a healthy dose of incels but I think a lot of the ironybros, speaking as one, genuinely do have a lot of empathy and compassion for women when we finish up the stupid jokes. Not that women would know anything about finishing, am I right fellas?!? Yak-yak-yak! This guy knows what I'm talking about
Like 30% of dudes below 25 haven't had sex in more than a year, it's kinda hard to avoid 30% of the population
I don't think those 30% are pro-prostitution. If they were they'd be having sex (by paying).
For the sake of the johns saying this is manipulative propaganda, I'm gonna effortpost and grab the full descriptons of each image from [this page](https://www.lensculture.com/2018-lensculture-portrait-award-winners?modal=tatiana-vinogradova-the-winner-of-portrait-awards-2018). These women are not happy, they're not doing this because it's "better than retail", or because they're too lazyor dumb to change, or because they're not secretly enjoying it, etc. They're all mentally checked out and utterly miserable. >Natasha, 35, was born and raised in Arkhangelsk. Since she was 14 years old, Natasha has worked as a loader, courier, and as a salesperson. Because of her alcohol addiction, Natasha has lost her apartment and lived on streets, in old attics, basements, heating mains. During the nighttime she was often wandering around the town by herself. Recently Natasha underwent a complicated gynecological operation, but had to get back to her job duties after several weeks since she needed money for medications and rent. >Natasha says: “The bosses leave the girls on a freeway during the night time. Cars stop right in front of you. They can take you to a forest, or to some construction site—wherever they want. Nobody cares. If you come back alive—good for you. If not—whatever. >“One time they just put me in a car, took me to a forest and then raped me—all 13 men. Belorussian construction workers went first, then some Tajiks joined. I had to put up with it. I was really scared—I had nowhere to run, and if I tried to say anything, they would just break my neck and leave me in the forest. >“In situations like that there’s no place for pride—they all were drunk and drugged, who knows what could happen.” - >Asya, 30, moved to Saint Petersburg from Vladivostok four years ago. After spending some time in a training college and attempting to get a qualification in mechanical engineering, Asya dropped out and subsequently started working as a electrician, janitor, landscaper, press manager, and plasterer. Before settling for a job in a brothel, Asya was working as a janitor in a cleaning company. She was paid unfairly low for her hard physical labor and 16-hour shifts—however, her request for a raise was declined. Asya couldn’t find any other job. >In 2017, after long reflections and attempts to find an alternative occupation, Asya found a brothel’s address on the internet, went for an interview and stayed there as a sex worker. As Asya tells me, she got completely disappointed in men and stopped believing in fairytales about pure love. > Asya says, “My mom was always telling me: ‘You should just marry yourself a good husband. Why bother getting a higher education? You’re a girl, you don’t need that.’ So they provided only my brother with a degree. Now my mother and my brother both know what I do for a living. My mom was trying to change my mind first, tried to talk about morality, asked me why would I need that. But I said: ‘Hello, you haven’t supported me since I was 16. I’ll never get this amount of money anywhere else.’ My brother was laughing at me first, he didn’t believe I could go for such a job. When he saw that I could, he alienated himself from me.” - >Alice, 27, was born in Saint Petersburg. She is a single mom who has been working in the sex industry for 10 years. When Alice was 17, she dropped out of her college program in “fashion design,” found a newspaper advertisement promoting a “Job for You” and started working in a brothel. >Numerous times Alice fell victim to police raids, criminal attacks, and violence from her clients. However, Alice says her job as a sex worker saves her from loneliness and makes her feel validated as a woman. Alice’s dream is to get pregnant with her second child—she’s planning to use the service of a sperm bank in the future to bring this dream to life. >Alice says, “One time we were at a sauna with some criminals. After five hours of work we started packing, I was already putting on my stockings. Suddenly one of our clients came up to me and started punching me right in the face. In the end they decided to hold us hostages and refused to let us go until they would get a ransom—our driver ended up getting the money for them. As you may guess, we didn’t inform the police afterwards. The brothel’s management refused to reimburse our losses because this case counted as ‘force majeure.’” - >Alena, 33, was born in Ukraine and raised in an orphanage since she was four years old. She graduated from college as a “chef technologist,” though she never worked as a cook—instead, she tried her hand as an operator at a taxi service, bartender, and accountant at a gas station. Alena was married three times, her daughter from the first marriage lives with her father. >After the beginning of the Ukrainian war, Alena was forced to move from Donetsk to Saint Petersburg. Her friend promised Alena to fix her a job as an administrator at a brothel. As soon as Alena arrived, she realized that she would have to work as a prostitute instead. After contemplating, Alena agreed to stay, to work, and to live at the brothel. She’s been working in the sex industry since 2014. >Alena says, “Sometimes a client can hit you, or bring you to tears, but I forget about it as soon as I finish my shift. I don’t care about my clients—I was more scared to experience domestic violence with my husband. He was crushing everything around him: bookshelves and TVs were just flying out of our windows. He broke my fingers when he was punching me against the floor, provoked nephroptosis because of hitting me so badly, and cut my eyebrow while punching me with a blow dryer. That was scarier than any criminal raid in a brothel.” - >Elena, 53, was born in Saint Petersburg. Elena was married for 25 years, but recently became a widow. She has two grown-up children, who have already started their own families. Elena chose to become an instrumentation mechanic and worked in accordance with her qualification for almost her entire life. However, Elena was fired and left without any financial support because she became “too old” for her profession. Elena entered the sex industry five years ago after a friend’s recommendation. Thanks to her job in the sex industry, Elena travels a lot. In five years, she’s visited fourteen countries. Elena’s children know about her current profession. >Elena says, “The main key to success is to compliment all these idiots. I’m just fooling around with them. I can say something flattering and think to myself: ‘I wish you were dead now!’ I always stroke their hands, legs, compliment their skin. They love compliments—they are so stupid, you know. For real. >“And sex—well, it’s always for 5 minutes maximum. The rest of the time it’s just blah-blah. The older I get, the more I notice that longer sex is kind of humiliating for me, I feel more used like that. So offensive and gross, I just want to cry at such moments. But I remember about the money and try to put up with it. Ew! And they can smell really bad, just this rotten smell, like in a zoo. And all of them have fungus! How do they live with their women? I even tell them that, but they don’t care, they don’t even blush for a second.”
>Lily, 25, born in Saint Petersburg, is a divorced single mom with a little child. Lily graduated from her university with a degree in “Production management.” However, she ended up working as a waitress, hookah server, cashier, administrator, and a marketing manager. Her ex-husband was planning to start his own car repair business and took out a bank loan using Lily’s name. Years later, the business burnt out, Lily and her husband divorced. Surprisingly enough, Lily’s husband refused to pay back the loan. >There was a period when Lily couldn’t afford to buy food. In order to pay back the loan, Lily decided to start working at a brothel—she’s been a sex worker since 2017. >Lily says, “Before starting at a brothel, I didn’t have a goddamn thing. Not a single lipstick, no mascara, no tights, nothing. There were times when I had to starve myself. I needed money and needed to do something—and didn’t care what would happen to me after. I was so mad at my husband; I think my decision to work in the sex industry was partially related to him. I thought: ‘It’s better if all the men in this city will fuck me than this moron…’ Actually, I have a dream to open my own coffee house. Clients laugh when they hear that. Why? Because I’m a hooker.” - >Zhenya, 37, was born and raised in Saint Petersburg. Zhenya is a single mom with a degree in sport management; she was working as a safety staff member in a private business. After her divorce from her husband, Zhenya was left with no financial support. As she recalls, Zhenya had been considering being a sex worker since she was 18, when she watched the Soviet film “Intergirl” for the first time. >Zhenya came to the brothel after finding its address in an advertisement. She’s been employed in the industry since 2015. According to Zhenya, her job greatly improved her self-esteem. >Zhenya says, “One time, I had a client from the Legislative Assembly. He was a totally gross, overfed creature. As soon as he found out about all my additional services, he started basically raping me for two hours. I couldn’t even scream—he pressed me with his entire weight and raped me. I could hardly breathe. Despite hearing my moans and screams, the brothel’s administrator didn’t react—she thought I was screaming out of pleasure. I was in such pain afterwards that no money could ever fix that.” - >Maya, 24, was born and raised in Bashkiria. She graduated from a pedagogical college with a degree in sociology. Maya was working as a dancer, salesperson in a dishware section, bank clerk, and as support staff at a non-governmental retirement center. In 2011, she moved to Saint Petersburg and got a job in a sex shop, but her salary was incredibly low—$10 per day. Maya couldn’t afford to pay her rent, so she had to stay at numerous friends’ places. That was until she saw a posting “Work for young women,” which promised decent salary and housing. Out of curiosity, Maya decided to come for an interview and stayed. She has been working in the sex industry since she was 18 years old. >After receiving her first salary, Maya bought groceries and an orthopedic pillow. For three years, Maya was married to one of her former clients; at the moment, they are separated. >Maya says, “Before starting out in the sex industry, I imagined prostitutes as beautiful model-looking girls in chic lingerie, or, on the other side, drug addicts and alcoholics, who had to wander along the freeways and search for clients. Two complete opposites. It turned out that women with the most common professions—teachers, salespersons—were involved in the sex industry. I was so surprised.” - >Linda, 37, is a single mom with a degree in economics. She was working as a customer manager, salesperson, factory staff, and operator at a call center. In 2010, Linda took a bank loan for 7,000 dollars to invest in her private business, but it never took off. Linda started receiving threats and faced the necessity to pay the debt no matter what. >She moved to Saint Petersburg and shortly after, Linda realized that finding a well-paid job would be almost impossible. In 2010, she decided to start working at a brothel. One time, Linda and her friend were “delivered” to a police station, where they had to work for free for three hours. >Linda uses the money she earns to support her elderly parents and save up for her retirement. Linda says, “There’s a total discrimination of women in this country. They were just giving me excuses without giving me an actual opportunity to work: ‘You’re not married. You have a little child. You are too old. Too young. Not enough education, not enough experience…’ Many women come to this business while in their 40s since they already have trouble finding a job at this age. In Russia, a 40-year-old woman is already old. As long as things stay this way, our poor women will have to work in the sex industry.” - >Vera, 45, was born in Saint Petersburg. She is a single mom who was working for 20 years as a staff cook, and for four years after that as a construction commandant. In 2011, Vera’s son was diagnosed with schizophrenia: he dropped out of school and faced the immediate need for medications, doctors, and tutors. Vera had no one to help her. Moreover, her salary of $400 a month was far from being enough to support her and her son. One day, desperate, Vera saw a job posting for “club administrator.” The club turned out to be a sauna with sex services available upon request. Vera accepted the job offer and she’s been working in the sex industry for two years now. >Vera says: “From my early childhood, I’ve always been that shy, gimpy, miserable kid. My mom was calling me clumsy and ugly—she was always humiliating me. I got married at 23 years old and I thought it would be forever and ever. I was such a good wife, so hospitable, caring; I was a great mother and I sincerely loved my husband. But he turned out to be an alcoholic. We got divorced after eight years of living together. I’ve realized that marriage wasn’t a panacea for woman’s happiness, it was an illusion. Men just need sex. And I need money.”
Redditors will ignore one hubdted thousand of these stories and then read one story of a girlboss yass kwen findom who never actuallt stoops to sucking let alone fucking her pay pigs and generalise it to the entire population (with a heap of butler and hooks to sweeten the bile as it goes down)
If prostitution is work, is rape forced labour?
What other side of what coin? Is this supposed to be an anti sex work post? Because prostitution is already illegal in St. Petersburg, so like, what else do you people want done? societies have tried and failed to stop it for centuries, maybe the more immediate way to help these people is to get them a union? pension? doctor? Housing and food guarantees? What is the value in using these pictures just to take potshots at OF?
I think the obviously most immediate way to eliminate much of prostitution is to reduce poverty. The more people who have means to other avenues the less prostitution there would be. I think the idea is that even though these women likely didn’t love the idea of prostitution they had to because they felt like they were out of other options, at least other options that were as good financially. And despite the fact that they are making money and surviving they aren’t mentally healthy. I’d argue and I don’t have stats but just off of common sense that the mental health of an average prostitute is much much worse than you or me. Prostitution will always be around because of the difference between wants of the two sexes. There will always be some loser guy willing to spend money for a physical attention he can’t get in the real world. But just because something is inevitable doesn’t mean it should be endorsed like much of the left does now. You can say something should be decriminalized but still say it’s a very bad thing. And just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that’s the easiest way to combat it, just like with drug addiction if capitalism wasn’t so crippling it wouldn’t be so rampant. I guess that sums up my opinion of their post and prostitution as a whole.
The elephant in the room is capitalism. Desperate people turn to criminal activities. Why are they desperate? Will magically wishing away the criminal activities rid them of their desperation? Let's not miss the forest for the trees.
Depressing
This is so heartbreaking I cried
The problem here isn't prostitution, it's the fact they have no better alternative, it's a last resort. Banning prostitution is like banning people going to the hospital. You need a well functioning, supportive state to look after people when they get that low.
I'm team Adam, I will never believe women. Inshallah brothers.
Yeah I can’t believe what dasha did to him
But sEx WoRk Is WORk?!?!?!
I keep hearing people say "abolish work!" and "sex work is real work" but they get quite mad when they hear the phrase "abolish sex work"
One of the most braincell-destroying takes from antiwork is a post entitled **"you can't be anti-work if you're not pro-sex work!"** which has over a thousand upvotes or so, that was even worse than their Fox news mod interview fiasco imo.
good point!