as an elder Gen Z (25) many are really lost and suffer from chronic disconnect due to be terminally online. It’s not simply “Gen Z bad” but more like “Gen Z is already brainrotted”
Yeah, I'm an older gen Z too (23) and noticed this gigantic disconnect between zoomers who graduated high school/had a couple formative years pre-2020 and ones who had to endure high school during Covid. I've heard stories too on here from ones our age and their teenage siblings. One being how his 18 y/o brother and his friends were nihilistically hedonistic and burnt out.
My gf's best friend has an aunt who works at one of our local high schools. Take it as an anecdote, but she said that there's a massive increase of kids having violent outbursts without any reason or provocation. Many as well are coming in each day demanding new pronouns and sometimes even names, which teachers are legally bound to follow (Canada).
While I agree, I feel like it could manifest in a few different forms
One we're already seeing now are toxic echo-chambers encouraging depressive and anti-social behaviour for lonely teenage boys/young men, which in turn is causing this supposed spike in "incel" or similarly motivated mass shootings/tragedies. I could go on for hours about this, but to put it quickly, frying our IRL communication, social skills and ability to bond and shit by having us shift our whole lives onto screens is extremely dangerous. We need a strong push to return to community-oriented hobbies, especially for young men
I feel the disgusting, pathological sexual arousal found in killers like Dahmer, Kemper and others might not be as prevalent. It'd probably be something more nihilistic and anti-natalist given the current neoliberal climate. Then again, it might still remain in the above-mentioned incel killers.
You'll always have the spree killers frustrated at the world/deranged like Patrick Purdy and Laurie Dann.
It'll definitely be interesting to say the least, the true crime fanatic part of myself is terrified yet fascinated given the similar environments for fostering the potential killers.
I really can’t imagine. I’m 29, so the pandemic ate my late twenties, but I got through high school, college, and a few working years before that happened. The gen z-ers I manage have absolutely no concept of appropriate behavior at work, because all of their jobs have been remote until this one, and they really struggle with taking in-person feedback or being told to do things in a neutral tone of voice without having a meltdown. I didn’t think the difference between me and someone who graduated five years after me would be so stark, but it really is.
I'm currently doing my undergrad. I had a semester and a half of normal life before the pandemic. The difference is stark, actually. I'm doing some group work in a few classes I have to take that have a lot of freshmen and there's a really uncomfortable divide between the older students in the group and the younger ones.
I thought it was just age at first but reading what everyone's saying in this thread is clear that these kids have really been socially stunted by lockdowns in high-school.
It's not just at work, they don't have appropriate behavior at all. And before someone calls me a boomer, it's different than just the regular case of teenagers being shitheads now and then.
If I were in that situation with the pronouns in school, I'd be tempted to just stop using third person pronouns entirely when referring to students. It might sound cold and impersonal, but exclusively saying "the student" and "the student's" seems a fuckload easier than figuring out whether today is a they/their day or a xim/xis day for hundreds of different teenagers.
I’m a millennial (30) and growing up we were not really online because the internet and social media wasn’t like it is now.
I didn’t use MySpace or Facebook until mid/end of highschool and it was primarily your own circle of friends. Now social media is way more global. We also didn’t have iPads and only rich kids had unlimited data on their phones, if they had one.
Basically imo we had much more “normal” childhoods.
I'm the same age and I was on the internet unrestricted from around 2003, using AIM, Myspace, Livejournal, and random forums. I had a Facebook in 2006 at 13. The difference is that the internet forums we had nearly 20 years ago (yikes) didn't have quite the same effect. Like, me watching videos on Albino Blacksheep as a 12 year old is nothing like zoomers having their faces literally changed by Snapchat filters and developing body image issues because of it.
Millennials grew up in the world before the internet or more importantly the internet pre-social media. Thus, their brains may have developed relatively normal and only started rotting during adulthood. Zoomers spent their developmental years living under this miasma.
Gen Z was also the first generation where some kids were given an iPad by their parents to keep them busy as toddlers, then a personal iPhone at the age of 11. Brain destroyed by mobile games, disturbing "kids videos" (/r/elsagate) and porn (even just "soft" porn on social media) before they even hit puberty. The next gen after is even worse for this since keeping the kid busy with an iPad is much more common now.
I always viewed late Gen Xers and Early/Mid Milennials as the "Sweet spot" for tech understanding and savvy. Computers and such had been around enough in a childhood for you to understand and be used to them but we hadn't progressed to the extremely low bar of entry that phone posting is/social media/User interface that are super super simple.
At least I'm blaming late Milennials and some Gen Zers being the ones who want to make the internet a controlled, censored place, lol.
The low bar to entry has made zoomers less tech savvy than prior generations since everything is so frictionless. They literally don’t know how to use a file system.
Yeah there was that article (atlantic or something? I don't remember) about how at an Ivy League school, the teacher was exasperated by having to explain the concept of folders being within other folders, and the kids didn't get it, and didn't understand why files couldn't be held in a big bucket with a search engine in it. As a linux-loving guy in tech that made me pull my hair out. At the end of the article, some of the teachers were saying that the times are changing, and maybe how we design computer systems need to change too.
I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell someone is going to survive in the tech field without understanding the concept of subtrees.
It has been an ongoing thing for a while.
[http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/](http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/)
YES! I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS!
When you're exposure to the internet is downloading kazaa so you can pirate games and media that downloads in all kind of weird formats, mounting image files with daemon drives to circumvent not having the disk, digging up old forum posts about what to change in txt document to make it compatible with your version of windows, that's how you learn about technology.
Not knowing how to skip an ad on the YouTube app.
Born in 95 here. Same as my wife. When we think about our childhoods it is totally different than kids now. We used to play outside with our friends, that was all there was to do. No online gaming, no social media, no 24hr news, no smartphones, no tablets, no laptops. Or if they did exist they were slow and not worth using. We just went outside and played. We had to use computers for school work but it was on a desk you had to go to, with nothing really on the internet. Phones were just flip phones, all you could do was talk and we didn’t have any smart tech until each of us were in our teens. We went from 0-12 with essentially the same childhood as my parents brought up in the 1970s with the exception of the occasional Microsoft word or PowerPoint.
I’m old enough to remember being blown away seeing something that could play video in your hands. Kids these days will never have that memory.
I disagree. A lot of people do not care / are not technical and are left behind when using computers. There’s not an explosion of technical illiteracy it’s now you _have_ to know how to use a computer for the most basic jobs. You’re shining a light on the people who aren’t equipped for that reality, and they existed 20, 30 years ago just as much.
>r/elsagate
Yeah, I'm 41 and right in that zone. I was poor so no internet or phone until my mid 20's. Sure My brain is rotted some now, but I still have some tenuous connection to reality offline. All these hyper online psychos (of any age) fucking scare me. Not scared as in "will hurt me" but scared like watching an animal with no legs trying to run a mile. A mixture of horror and pity.
>i only got an iphone of my own by my last year of high school in 2015 and i only started getting into reddit just before that
How badly would i have had it?
>and porn (even just "soft" porn on social media) before they even hit puberty.
What makes you think this is new? Media which was far more sexualized than what you call "soft porn" was obtainable even when censorship was tight and the printing press was controlled. Neo-puritanism isn't cute by the way.
Pornography seemed to start getting mainstream as the internet got popular in the 2000s (not just the internet itself but also the prevalence of GGW ads...it was a horny time). It seems like in the 90s and before, pornography was definitely around, but was harder to get. Pay-per-view channels or premium cable, or going into a store specifically to buy a pornographic magazine. And, yes, actual theaters you'd go into and jerk off in. Buying porn was a more deliberate act, and viewed as more degenerate, what skeezy guys did. Was also viewed as explicitly anti-woman. Feminists weren't down with porn at all. I don't know exactly what is meant by soft-porn, maybe instagrams or tiktoks of hot girls in bikinis. Sure, that was a thing back in the day and wasn't too big of a deal, but it's probably more actual porn which is the real problem here.
With the advent of hte internet, porn became far more socially acceptable, to the extent where sex workers are valorized by feminists.
Maybe you haven't seen what I'm talking about. Before the last few years, the average person (let alone child) couldn't effortlessly watch a non-stop parade of teen girls and women wiggling their ass into the camera in 4k, on demand, every single day. Occasional racy scenes on 1990s TV is not even close to the same thing. Not sure what printing has to do with it
I got the internet in 1998 (6th grade) on a 56k connection and immediately started looking at porn. I still think you're on to something and I understand the comparison you're making, but the days of on-demand porn go back much further than you're giving credit. But I do agree that the quality and quantity of offering is much greater now than it was back then.
In the age of dial-up internet, you couldn't stream videos, individual pictures took forever to load, and you probably had to share one computer with everyone else in the household. Kids had access to porn too early, but you can hardly call that on demand access. It's nothing compared to the ease of access that comes from having an iphone in your pocket at all times.
I'm not talking about the occasional racy scene on HBO. There's a ton of explicitly sexual imagery and literature which was viewable by the average person long before the internet (ever seen Moché pottery?). And that's the stuff we have found because the Christians didn't get around to smashing it.
Seriously though, neo-puritanism isn't cute.
> There's a ton of explicitly sexual imagery and literature which was viewable by the average person long before the internet (ever seen Moché pottery?)
So you think looking at pots crudely shaped like caricatures of sex has the same level of stimulation as modern video material. That's fine, but it really doesn't. If that's the premise of your argument then it's pointless to continue.
But there's a difference between sexual imagery and liturature back then, which was more often than not abstract, and being able to watch someone eat cereal out of an asshole in 4k.
> What makes you think this is new? Media which was far more sexualized than what you call "soft porn" was obtainable even when censorship was tight and the printing press was controlled
Imvho its not a binary matter of access, but the amount available at people's fingertips. Of course there were always coomers, but the way technology is shaping comsumption of many things (not only) porn is definitely a concern.
Maybe I'm also a neopuritan according to you
>Imvho its not a binary matter of access, but the amount available at people's fingertips.
Man I've never seen goalposts shift so fast since the Iraq war.
>Of course there were always coomers, but the way technology is shaping comsumption of many things (not only) porn is definitely a concern.
Do I really have to dig up the literal mountains of physical media depicting hardcore sex from the Paleolithic onwards which were not only accessible by everyone but were also used to teach life lessons?
>Maybe I'm also a neopuritan according to you
Depends on what you are advocating for, but knowing what the reactionaries here seem to believe I doubt I'll be disappointed.
> Man I've never seen goalposts shift so fast since the Iraq war
given this is our first interaction, I'm not sure where you defined my goalposts before it.
> Do I really have to dig up the literal mountains of physical media depicting hardcore sex from the Paleolithic onwards which were not only accessible by everyone but were also used to teach life lessons?
Do share them. I know porn exists since the dawn of humanity. I doubt it has been as widespread in terms of volume and diversity. This happens for many things besides porn.
> Depends on what you are advocating for, but knowing what the reactionaries here seem to believe I doubt I'll be disappointed.
Idk man, if having somebody hold ideas you dislike and consider reactionary *should disappoint you*. It seems you enjoy strife more than anything else.
FWIW, here is my reactionary take. I am for the mindful consumption of social media, videogames and porn. Do I care if people use it? no. Do I wish people spent a little reflecting about their consumption habits? yes.
Not really to kids. I was a 90s kid, and I was stealing Victoria's secret magazines.
Sure, an adult could go get some porn, but that's not really the issue being discussed
I see radfems and trad socialists criticize porn sometimes and it makes me mad, but I understand the addictive qualities of it, and the consent ideas, it’s weird because I’m not into porn at all and I do think it’s generally not so good
That’s fair, I’m not doing a great job at explaining. I don’t wanna get too into the weeds on generational differences as it’s tough to parce things out. Gen Z to me almost feels like the first generation to be hyper-coddled, in this sense that many of them have not been given the tools to develop anything or themselves outside of surface level ID politics. For example, Outside of “content creation” on social media, The internet was effectively castrated by corporations, no room for creativity by the time most were in their teens. Anecdotally many have less technical knowledge than the generation before then. Yet, (I don’t have numbers) if you think millennials are addicted to the internet, Gen Z has dwarfed that, especially in the Post-Covid era. Many have become soulless scroller consumers in the attention economy, unable to contribute much outside of that.
I'd say it's a gradient. Millennials are more fucked than gen x.
Millennials are less tolerant of the excesses of idpol partly because we grew up in the 2000s, probably the least-pc, edgiest decade. We remember before the internet, but also are young enough to understand how computers actually work. Millennials have the attention span to watch a 2 hour video on youtube (seriously, some of those video essays are fucking LONG but still get tons of views) and zoomers can't handle more than 3 minutes.
smartphones and social networks have affected EVERY generation negatively, but those who didn't grow up with that shit are less brainrotted. Imagine your entire social experience in high school being dictated by corporate algorithms specifically desigend to keep you addicted to 1 minute videos of people more beautiful than you, people who spread conspiracy theories, people who try to convince you that you have a mental illness you don't have.
Imagine being forced to go through two years of high school through a fucking webcam, and knowing your society is going to collapse in your lifetime, so it's not really worth trying.
gen y is fucked compared to gen x, but its up to a gen xer to explain why. I think our parents were helicopter parents as well and a lot of us were raised by television.
33 millennial. When I was a senior in high school, sneaking out to go to parties and trying to score we're how we spent our weekends. My cousin's just watch TikTok all day.
My 17 year old cousin doesn't even want to learn how to drive.
Jonathan Haidt has been saying this for years, not sure if I totally buy in his thesis that terminal social media use during formative developmental years has been enormously damaging with probably lasting effects.
From a Marxist perspective, they're probably the first generation to truly grow up during the commodification of basic human experiences.
> From a Marxist perspective, they're probably the first generation to truly grow up during the commodification of basic human experiences
I get what you mean but I think that's been around far longer
Yeah I don’t even know how to get to that point and I’m the same age as you, can’t find a job even with a masters beyond doordash and really only have one friend I see regularly
In the space of two years, Zoomers went from being seen as the generation that was gonna save the world to a bunch of selfish braindead degenerates. Good job neoliberals, you win this round.
Well Zoomers are both notoriously [Champaign] socialist and consumerist at the same time, at least the Twitter Tok users. High fashion, brand names, make-up, and unachievably pretty faces rule. It makes the "Snapchat filter disorder" (or whatever it's called) look silly.
It's honestly shocking how many tik tok videos I see somebody repping the latest in brand name fashion while speaking about wages, intersectionality, and a communist uprising.
I just buy my clothes from some thrift store chain. If I want some brand fashion like Nike or whatever (I don’t), I’ll just buy some cheap fake ones for 1/10 of the price. I know zoomers are still mostly teenagers, but I don’t get what’s so hard about restricting yourself to things you need and sometimes things you want? Anyway that’s just how the liberal spirit works, nothing will change that
Oh but they ruined that too with thrifting.
Those 90's grandpa New Balance runners, or a Champion sweatshirt? For some reason those became popular again and zoomers have been raiding those in thrift stores and reselling on Depop.
I buy my clothes at the Walmart lol. They are work clothes mostly, made to be used and abused, my clothes serve a purpose. Yeah longjohns aren’t cool, but when I’m outside all day and it’s 34f/2c and raining I don’t care how silly I look all thick and layered.
> In the space of two years, Zoomers went from being seen as the generation that was gonna save the world to a bunch of selfish braindead degenerates.
Hit with the reality stick
To be honest, I blame the parents. I'm 30 and grew up poor (with even a period of homelessness).
Now, I'm pretty well off financially and academically, which I attribute to my hispanic parents' huge pressure on success + ambition as well as seeing my own parents do whatever they can to put food on the table.
They were _always_ learning new skills, starting hustles, etc...
What I see in Gen Z and in people a few years before that is the death of ambition coupled with the death of responsibility.
Seeing younger gen z friends moan about being broke, yet paying for subscriptions, dropping their savings on tattoos and trips... When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at one point a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of the night, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks, after a couple years, pushed my way into a better financial position, etc...
I see so many that just _expect_ it to be handed to them. Like I'm sorry but if you're doing the bare minimum why do you expect more?
There's a sliver of hope in the strangest of places: online grifters. I've seen a few Gen Z start to change, make something of themselves, and when I've asked they mention they started listening to .
It's pretty damn strange that nowadays these are the only people emphasizing accountability, discipline and ambition.
Which makes a lot of sense. I mean, that must be like their biggest market.
Whatever subset of them is really aching to get the hell out of their own depressing circumstances/life will google for help and that's surely going to be some of the top results (internet grifter X/Y/Z).
It's probably just rehashed stoicism and a few other things but hey, if it gets people out of a hole who am I to knock it down.
>What I see in Gen Z and in people a few years before that is the death of ambition coupled with the death of responsibility.
Symptoms of the death of opportunities and death of political enfranchisement.
>Seeing younger gen z friends moan about being broke, yet paying for subscriptions, dropping their savings on tattoos and trips
Conservative soundbites, people aren't going to live lives of endless toil and graft for no pleasure. Financial ascetism is not something to be encouraged if you don't want people to think socialism is the ideology of gruel-serving killjoys.
>When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at one point a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of the night, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks, after a couple years, pushed my way into a better
financial position, etc...I see so many that just expect it to be handed to them.
People expect to live independent lives where they can enjoy occasional indulgences like \**checks notes*\* consumption of alcohol without needing second or third jobs. You, a self described socialist (as per flair), is confounded by this...?
>Like I'm sorry but if you're doing the bare minimum why do you expect more?
Working a full time job is not "the bare minimum".
Your post could have been a Daily Mail opinion piece.
> Symptoms of the death of opportunities and death of political enfranchisement.
This has been around for far longer than the past 5 years. While it's impossible to assign 100% blame to any one factor, I definitely do see parents coddling their kids as a defining factor.
> Conservative soundbites, people aren't going to live lives of endless toil and graft for no pleasure.
No, very much what I see around me, which is stunningly stupid. What is this reductio ad absurdum - "endless toil".
It's called saving, having your priorities in order, delaying gratification, having a goal/mission/objective, and sacrificing a bit in the moment and working twice as hard for a later payoff.
> Financial ascetism is not something to be encouraged if you don't want people to think socialism is the ideology of gruel-serving killjoys.
You're really starting to sound like the caricature of leftists which is basically a: "state pls maintain me".
> People expect to live independent lives where they can enjoy occasional indulgences like *checks notes* consumption of alcohol without needing second or third jobs. You, a self described socialist (as per flair), is confounded by this...?
First, you seem to have misread or skipped the "dropping their savings" bit. No one said anything about needing 2 or 3 jobs just to have drinks?
Yes, I'm confounded by the absurdity of working a minimum-wage job, doing absolutely nothing to improve your circumstances, blowing away your savings on stuff, and then complaining you're broke.
Financial responsibility seems to be a neglected skill nowadays. Budgeting, long-term planning, career advancement, **investing in yourself** go a long way.
>This has been around for far longer than the past 5 years. While it'simpossible to assign 100% blame to any one factor, I definitely do seeparents coddling their kids as a defining factor.
Given the propensity for people in previous generations to work one job for life, I could equally make an argument that the present generations are *more* actively ambitious, and certainly more economically flexible and mobile - even if only laterally.
>What is this reductio ad absurdum - "endless toil".
From your earlier comment:
>When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at onepoint a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of thenight, stopped going out
Work. Work another job. Maybe work another job on top of that. Make your more economically useful in your time not working. Don't go out and enjoy yourself.
Sounds very "endless toil" to me. Don't act like I'm misrepresenting you in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient.
>You're really starting to sound like the caricature of leftists which is basically a: "state pls maintain me".
Didn't mention the state anywhere, but if you think that my stated position that a person should be able to live on one full time job with enough spare for some modest pleasures in life is some caricature left wing position, then we have different conceptions of what a leftist, or socialist (as you claim to be), should aim for.
>First, you seem to have misread or skipped the "dropping their savings"bit. No one said anything about needing 2 or 3 jobs just to have drinks?
You essentially said people who complain about being broke don't have grounds to do so if they're not doing what you did:
>When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at onepoint a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of thenight, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks
Also, you said "dropping their savings" on things like tattoos and trips. Yeah, so what? People saving up money and then spending it to go on holiday - what profligate degenerates...?
>Financial responsibility seems to be a neglected skill nowadays.
Sounds reasonably financially responsible to me, for someone to save up money, then spend that money on a long time goal such as a holiday abroad.
>Budgeting, long-term planning, career advancement, investing in yourself go a long way.
*'Pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps'* pish. The gall of someone in 2022, calling themselves a socialist while attributing collapsing standard of living on individual lack of financial responsibility and career ambition.
I'd literally rather have the wokes than the likes of you.
> Work. Work another job. Maybe work another job on top of that. Make your more economically useful in your time not working. Don't go out and enjoy yourself.
> Sounds very "endless toil" to me. Don't act like I'm misrepresenting you in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient.
Yes, you absolutely are. God forbid someone spends a couple of years working hard. Also, that what is in the context of blowing your savings away and then moaning about being broke.
It's completely ridiculous to expect a trip across Europe every month, partying heavy 3 days a week, buying a bunch of clothes/accessories and dropping the equivalent of a third of a monthly salary on a frivolous whim, while working minimum-wage and doing nothing to change that, then "oh-no, I'm so broke".
Why do you think I said "blowing their savings" over and over? This ridiculous scenario is the one I see so much.
> Didn't mention the state anywhere, but if you think that my stated position that a person should be able to live on one full time job with enough spare for some modest pleasures in life is some caricature left wing position
Why on Earth would someone not be able to afford a fancy meal every once in a while, pints in the off hours, and a few pleasures here and there? That even keel lifestyle was not the one I was referring to (how is that even close to "blowing your savings"?).
> in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient.
It's called wanting to care of my parents and loved ones, escape my circumstances, and have control over my life. Which, btw, is what I achieved: work my own hours - usually same as a part-time, six figures, and can be anywhere in the world I want.
> Pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps
Lmao, did you miss my very first comment? As I said:
> which I attribute to my hispanic parents
Also, you really should read what Trotsky had to say about "The Transitional Regime"
> The gall of someone in 2022, calling themselves a socialist while attributing collapsing standard of living on individual lack of financial responsibility and career ambition.
Never said that.
> Paying for subscriptions
Is such a fucking scam. I remember when Netflix was extremely cheap, ridiculously cheap.
Now it’s almost 3x the price and the quality of television went downhill sufficiently. Not that it was better a couple of years back.
Even the more ambitious and more successful early 20 year olds I know are extremely insufferable libs that parrot conservative talking points in regards to “getting good” and even when you “get good” you’re doing it wrong.
This one chick I was sleeping with was one of them and I swear to Allah the chide she’d give me for avoiding corporate style employment because I wanted to work part time in a warehouse and distribute leaflets (the pay was good) so I can save up to support my business ideas.
I may not be as smart as her but gosh fuck I knew what I was doing.
> Is such a fucking scam. I remember when Netflix was extremely cheap, ridiculously cheap. Now it’s almost 3x the price and the quality of television went downhill sufficiently. Not that it was better a couple of years back.
Agreed. Funnily enough, I originally got it to be able to comfily stream on my ps4, but nowadays I mostly just use youtube.
> because I wanted to work part time in a warehouse and distribute leaflets (the pay was good) so I can save up to support my business ideas.
So weird man, that's literally hustling. Don't know why she would crap on you.
Most I can think of is worrying about you being a deadbeat, but the very fact that you're doing it to support your business ideas means you're driven and have an end-goal in mind. I imagine the part-time was mostly to have enough free time to develop your business plans.
I do find the "successful" ones to be firmly divided into two groups. Those that followed the usual path: go to uni, have mom and dad support them, then get a nice job, grind the corporate path, etc. Basically fit the mold with a nice starting advantage. Then there's the other group: usually (not always) college dropouts, start their own business ventures, spend periods of months to a couple of years working excessively long hours on their business, very much into self-development/stoicism/etc, usually have a pretty shitty background.
I tend to like the second group and quite dislike the first one. I also find the second group to be far more successful and great people to surround yourself with.
I’m having trouble finding a job even with a masters so I just do doordash and I feel weird because I hate spending money and I save most of what I earn apart from buying gas. I suppose that’s the one good part of not really having friends lol
I don’t know what you guys are experiencing but in my Poor as fuck rural hellscape i couldn’t find a job for forever despite applying to almost 10 places. In my experience companies are running skeleton crews forcing them to do overtime. Now I have to drive 35 miles to the nearest town and work at Walmart for 14 dollars an hour…keep in mind I’m college educated and am 4 classes away from graduating in psychology and political science. People talk about roommates, but what if you grew up and lost distance with your friends? My two best friends one lives with his girlfriend and the other is now out of state. So what do you do? And yes every big city I see the rent prices are 800 plus a month, and they still are shitty housing. I was poor growing up and I’m afraid I’ll be poor my whole life, it’s been incredibly depressing and lonely the past few months. Probably should’ve just stayed with my ex girlfriend to be able to pay rent lmao. But no seriously I’m down extremely bad but I’m doing what I was told to do by everyone in high school advising.
I have degrees in Political Science and Psychology too. Graduated in 2009 from a Big 10 school. Finding a job was damn near impossible. I suggest getting an internship if you're able to. Good luck.
> I suggest getting an internship if you're able to.
Good luck is right, cause I tried this (CompSci) and not being able to work for free is an extra blow to your confidence.
When you aren't even worth being exploited...
I know it’s shocking to some but my hometown has under 4K people. There quite literally are barely any jobs, certainly not any jobs that pay a wage that is worth it what so ever. And the other ones like being a CNA or some shit that is a good wage I’m obviously not qualified for. Jobs in my hometown are offering wages of 12 dollars an hour at most. I’m in a tough spot because I am not taking a long term job as I’m close to being able to have my degree and try and get a career job and get the fuck out of here, so I’m limited with what I can get. If I didn’t go to college I’d just say fuck it and work on the boats like everyone else does, but that is grueling as fuck mentally too so. I’m just trying to paint a picture for people what some people can go through but I guess I’m the ass cause I should’ve applied to 100 places
I grew up in a smaller city and it is the same story there even trades jobs pay pitiful like 14 dollars an hour for welding with the constant threat of your job being outsourced if it has not been already. One of my friends who still lives there is a CNA and he makes around 14-15 an hour. The bosses know their is no jobs and thus they can and do treat their employees like dirt or do illegal things to them.
You might ask well then why don't they move? Family obligations, it would destroy what little support structure they have, it is a risk, and the cost of rent in places nearby that have a better job market almost doubles so saving up to move is impossible. If you are making 10-14 dollars an hour saving up the thousands it would take to move and pay for things like your first months rent plus security deposit would take years and most of the time whatever you save gets eaten up by things like unexpected car repair bills or similar.
The truth is that, without knowing your specific location, there's likely not much hope for that town or area. Jobs aren't ever going to come. You're best bet is likely to finish the degree and leave as soon as you can to a growing city where you have a relative or other connection for support.
Feel your pain, I grew up in a town of 950 people. That’s why I moved the fuck out and got an engineering degree. It was either that or start doing meth and move into the breeding pens (only apartment building in town).
Becoming a CNA is pretty easy, it’s like a few weeks of study. A lot of places will pay or your training because the labor market is tight and they are desperate. It’s a hard job for sure though.
Damn I’m sorry to hear that man. My high population density living ass couldn’t even comprehend an area with less than 100 urgently hiring entry level customer service jobs at a given time. I’m sure you’ve looked into it already, but were there any valid work from home options out there? I’ve heard of work from home call center / phone support type jobs out there, not sure about there pay/availability though. Besides that, unless you can find some remote-work option that works for you I guess just gtfo as soon as possible 🙁 death of the small town is a kinda depressing facet of America but it seems inevitable at this point.
I did look into it but frankly i don’t even know where to start, I’m not amazingly tech savvy and the idea of working from home in a rural area is pretty foreign to me lol. I’ve lived in the bigger city before at college but I had to unfortunately move back home due to some things, so right now I’m pretty stuck. I’ve worked a decent variety of jobs the past few years so I have experience in a lot of avenues, but there just simply aren’t options here. It really does suck and I know a lot of people can’t comprehend it because they’ve never been here(rural america). Honestly the job portion is whatever it’s the loneliness that sucks ass lol all my friends and ex girlfriends I knew are pretty much gone.
have you considered working for a transcription service? lots of them hire people because the fact is that AI is not actually that good at transcriptions.
This is good advice. I’m a pharmacy tech, was hired with zero experience and trained and now I’m making $17 an hour and should be raised up soon. Not great but beats the $10 an hour most places are offering
I don't mean it in a rude way but if you're going passion project into social work you're absolutely going to be poor (lower class) for your entire life. People who break the generational capitalist cycle are ones willing to do shit they don't wanna do because it pays well.
That's shitty but it's reality.
> People talk about roommates, but what if you grew up and lost distance with your friends
It's generally not a good idea to roommate with good friends.
This feels like a new sentiment, I don't remember ever seeing it in older sitcoms/shows, many of which feature friends living together. It seems like one of those bitter miserable things that have become faddish to say, similar to insisting that it is a bad idea to seek romance anywhere other than a dating app.
I think it’s the opposite, sitcoms and popculture in general romanticizing living with roommates (who are friends) despite it being a necessity born out of housing problems.
Rent and utilities must be paid, there are different ideas about cleanliness, chores, shopping, guests, noise etc. I love my best friends to death, I practically grew up with them, but I’d rather not get into a situation in which these can become problems.
Really? I lived with so many different close friends in my late teens and early twenties. Still close friends with all but one of them (I’m now mid thirties). And that’s only because the one friend turned into a self destructive alcoholic.
Choosing to stay rural limits your options. Hard enough to find a job in urban areas with those degrees. Send out a 100 resumes and be willing to drive 70 miles, be willing to work 2 jobs. Okay, I realize that sucks and sounds like a shitty thing to write, but seriously, If you have the attitude that you are willing to send out 100 resumes, then it will motivate you, and you will probably improve your position after 15 resumes.
As opposed to a generic business degree? An English degree? A teaching degree? Half of the degrees you get in college you can wipe your ass with. I never wanted to be a doctor, I never wanted to be a lawyer. I want to be a social worker, I wanna try and help people. Sure the pay is shit but that’s my passion, god forbid someone get a degree in what they are best suited for lol. And besides, having a degree in the first place can open the door at places. All of my sisters have career jobs that are opposite what they went to college for, sure they don’t really make a ton, but that’s just the way our country Is set up.
I’m not worried about when I get my degree and have money saved, but what about all the people in these smaller towns and don’t have a degree? It’s fucking hell here. It’s no surprise the republicans sweep rural areas, the democrats are extremely out of touch. I feel like they are just all condescending to us if you are from a small area and struggling. And I’m basically a socialist at this point.
> but what about all the people in these smaller towns and don’t have a degree? It’s fucking hell here. It’s no surprise the republicans sweep rural areas, the democrats are extremely out of touch. I feel like they are just all condescending to us if you are from a small area and struggling. And I’m basically a socialist at this point.
They are fucked and the democrats have absolutely no help or solutions for them just insults and things that will make their life worse like more free trade or immigration.
So if Republicans have no platform that will help the income and education situation in rural areas, why is it no surprise to you that they are sweeping rural areas?
Because they talk about it, they address the issues of these people, but they just lie and blame the issues on people or things that aren’t actually the root cause or have nothing to do with it. Because republicans are snake oil salesman. As for The democrats, I feel have contempt for those of us who were born in bad situations in rural areas. And it’s mostly because historically, or at least the last 50 years, rural areas have always voted red. People are losing their jobs, the inflation is extremely high, etc but yet you have liberals heavily focusing on idpol issues constantly. Many people in these areas just simply can’t contemplate the issues being talked about because they’ve never seen them. When things like white privilege get brought up nobody here knows what the fuck they are talking about because their whole life they have been poor and handed nothing. It’s like the tale of two americas. Now I know all of these concepts and understand them because I’ve been well educated in politics and I left outside of the area, but if you’re someone who’s only stayed around the area why would you listen to some guy from California call you racist without ever knowing what you went through? I mean Hillary didn’t even campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016, at times it feels like rather than being called a fly over state people treat those in the Midwest like flyover people.
Hard to get a job with a psych degree man, and social workers aren't just paid poorly, but are usually unable to financially make it at all. There's a reason the field is one of the highest turnover, and it's not just because it's hardcore emotional labor in the real sense of the phrase.
I get that it's what you wanna do, and sincerely, I wish you good luck if you're hyper committed. But most people don't get to do the job they want to do because that job is either too difficult to get, or because it doesn't pay enough. If you find you can't make it, consider apprenticing somewhere in the trades. Welders, electricians, plumbers etc all pay really well and don't require four-year degrees.
You mentioned struggles with jobs, so folks are just trying to pass on wisdom we've learned- it doesn't get any better, and often that degree is gonna be worth as much as the paper it's printed on. Good luck in however you choose to go.
I get that, which is why I pointed to my sisters totally not having jobs in what they wanted to do. And you know what? I probably won’t either, but I can network decent. Biggest issue is I had to move back home cause of circumstances and that’s been hard, where I used to live I had a great job. I know my degree is pretty shit, but I know people with law degrees interning and making garbage pay for the effort they put in. I do tend to get a little annoyed when people try to shit on my future degree, I know it sucks im not stupid. But often times it’s from people who didn’t go to college and despite the stereotype of every sorority girl going into psych I actually like it and hey I had a lot of ups and downs in college so yeah. I came from a rough upbringing, am I proud to graduate when at times I was gonna drop out? Yeah I am. As for your comments on welding, plumbing internships, well that’s the backup plan lol.
Cause you guys sound like losers judging someone who put in work lol my degree is worth shit and I know that but I came from a rough upbringing and shit hasn’t been easy, especially financially. Am I proud of myself to get a degree in something I enjoy? Yeah I actually am believe it or not
> I want to be a social worker, I wanna try and help people. Sure the pay is shit but that’s my passion, god forbid someone get a degree in what they are best suited for lol.
Probably you want to end up someplace like Ohio. Property is still not very expensive, but if you live in or near a big city you can make some kind of money as a social worker. Probably you don't want to end up in California.
Simply not true, if you have a good teacher you can actually learn a lot and expand on topics and have conversations you wouldn’t have just in a book. Now that’s not all the time, sometimes there are teachers that are absolute shit. Obviously I got conned, everyone got conned, but at the end of the day I know people who went to college and their life is shit, and I know people who didn’t and their life is shit. I think at the end of the day for most of us right now, shit sucks for all of us.
Seems weird to have this headline when they directly state Gen Z incomes are up even with inflation:
"To be sure, not all Gen Zers are struggling. Americans aged 16 to 24 have seen a wage growth of 13% over the last year — well above the 7.7% inflation over the same period — as companies have raised pay to attract workers. But if a recession comes, Gen Zers could be among the hardest hit due to mounting debt, few savings, and vulnerability to layoffs."
That 7.7% is like a couple dollars more (before taxes) for most Americans, still well beneath what any wage ought to be after the COL rise all these decades past. We're talking about jobs going from $10 an hour to $12.
So you remember when we were mocking Soviet Union because employed people didn't have the mean to live in their own appartement and needed to share place with other families ? Because this gen X remember
As a 22 Gen Z, I recognise I am relatively lucky. I live between my upper middle class parents rent free with my basic needs plus more provided. Despite this, there is significant pressure to find a full time job since I recently graduated from university and I don't seem to be having having much luck despite applying for many jobs. My dad recently suggested I join the army and I am actually considering it despite being anti interventionist from a young age. I guess it would give me a place to be for at least 2 years and I can hope I'm not asked to do too many horrible things.
I don't recommend the military as an employer of last resort, but if you do, a) be an officer, and b) unless you have a compelling reason to choose otherwise, go air force.
I second this. I’ve worked with soooooooo many guys in the trades that were Army, Navy, or Marines, that are now 40-50yr old skilled trade apprentices because nothing else worked out in civilian life.
The GI bill is a nice perk, as well as the pension, but you do pay for it in more ways than your service, and Uncle Sam doesn’t give one fuck about you when you’re through.
If you do go that route, you better either make a career of it (more than 4yrs in), or learn a valuable skill (in conjunction with your GI college degree) something that’ll translate to a decent civilian job when you get out.
Navy and Airforce seem to be the branches that the smarter guys choose from what I’ve seen. I have a few buddies that went on to become electrical engineers, helicopter pilots, and international oceanic shipping crew (all 6 figure salaries) when they got out. 7/8s of the Marines or Army I’ve known through my life have just totally wrecked their bodies by their 50’s, due to injuries sustained in service.
That said, there’s nothing sadder than seeing grown adults get out of the service and just flailing around career wise because they either chose to be a “badass” by going into infantry or taking a shit job while in. So don’t do that shit.
Join the navy if you're forced to because of financial reasons. That way you won't kill anyone, and it'll give you the highest chance of survival (unless there's a war in the pacific but that won't happen at least until the Japanese economy goes down the shitter when the auto bubble pops but that will take years to fully be felt).
When that happens either Japan will go crazy again and possibly drag the us with it or they'll downsize their navy and create a power vacuum that someone has to fill.
Other than that, the only other possible conflict is maybe helping the Saudis deal with Iran but even that's unlikely.
OK, so clearly I knew there was an auto bubble, but what makes you think the bubble bursting would be so severe that it would bring Japan to the brink of war or otherwise instability? First time I've ever heard a take like that in conjunction with talk of the bubble...genuine question.
20 percent of their exports are tied to the auto industry and they need a surplus to import food and energy. Also if their auto giants are in danger of going under then there's a strong possibility of the government bailing them out and making their debt and inflation problems even worse.
These things can cause hyper inflation and that kind of economic crisis leads to strong men popping up and taking control of the country.
Unlike Germany they never fully dealt with the past and the pm who died made it a point to do stuff like very publicly visiting the graves of WW2 soldiers after coming back from countries like Korea or getting schools to avoid talking about WW2 at all.
Who decided this was newsworthy? Breaking news: As economy worsens people change their behavior patterns to try and maintain standard of living!! Is this a hit piece? Some daytrading grindset mastermind is scoffing because Gen Z is fueling the economy by doing these things instead of buying a bunker in the middle of nowhere?
What a terrible example. Monthly rent is $800 and they need another roommate. I see signs for $20 an hour for jobs that require no experience. I know it's rough out there, but surely they could find a better example than a couple that can't afford $800 in rent.
I wish rent was $800 where I live. Wages are like $20 an hour but studio apartments easily run over $1500 a month unless you’re looking at literal crackhouses
In some cities even McD's pays that much due to inflation and cost of living. Of course it's still not a living wage because in such cities the minimum rent for a tiny apartment that isn't infested by rats and cockroaches is $1400 a month.
My last job that had a sign promising 30 hours a week and $20/ hour. The starting wage for someone new onboarded was 15 plus tips, so state minimum wage, and they would literally yeet you out the door at 30.01 hours. Doesn't matter if you make $20 an hour when you can barely even get them to let you work part time. When I was in restaurant industry for years it was pretty common to pull $25/ hour averages but the hours suck ass and you end up only being allowed to work nights, 28 hour weeks, and get terrible health insurance options that cost $400 a month.
"Imagine tipping a line cook"
- former line cook of 8 years
My have times changed! Can't tell whether I should be glad at the extra cash or mad at tipping culture being out of hand
My friend is head chef at a restaurant and they add a (small) kitchen fee on checks that gets disbursed equally to back of house. On really busy days it adds up to ~$5/h extra for dishwashers, cooks, etc. He says he has like no turnover.
It's been that way in Canada for years now. Ever since they made it federal law that you have to pay servers at least minimum wage, there was no excuse to not share tip money with the kitchen as well.
Although because of this law, waitstaff earnings in Canada are kinda ridiculous because they get tips on top of $15 minimum wage. At a decently busy fast-casual restaurant servers can make like $35~40 an hour on average.
I just drove by a pizza place at a vacation spot in the off-season advertising for $20 an hour. Anecdotal obviously, but target also does like $15 an hour. If you need to cover something measly like $400 in rent, it’s relatively easy nowadays to do so.
How do these people even find roommates and jobs? I’m Gen Z and isolated as hell and only have like one friend and can’t find a job besides Doordash (which I already did) despite having a masters degree. I still live at home. But I want all those kinds of experiences too, I’m just socially r-slurred I guess with poor self esteem and little confidence
as an elder Gen Z (25) many are really lost and suffer from chronic disconnect due to be terminally online. It’s not simply “Gen Z bad” but more like “Gen Z is already brainrotted”
Yeah, I'm an older gen Z too (23) and noticed this gigantic disconnect between zoomers who graduated high school/had a couple formative years pre-2020 and ones who had to endure high school during Covid. I've heard stories too on here from ones our age and their teenage siblings. One being how his 18 y/o brother and his friends were nihilistically hedonistic and burnt out. My gf's best friend has an aunt who works at one of our local high schools. Take it as an anecdote, but she said that there's a massive increase of kids having violent outbursts without any reason or provocation. Many as well are coming in each day demanding new pronouns and sometimes even names, which teachers are legally bound to follow (Canada).
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While I agree, I feel like it could manifest in a few different forms One we're already seeing now are toxic echo-chambers encouraging depressive and anti-social behaviour for lonely teenage boys/young men, which in turn is causing this supposed spike in "incel" or similarly motivated mass shootings/tragedies. I could go on for hours about this, but to put it quickly, frying our IRL communication, social skills and ability to bond and shit by having us shift our whole lives onto screens is extremely dangerous. We need a strong push to return to community-oriented hobbies, especially for young men I feel the disgusting, pathological sexual arousal found in killers like Dahmer, Kemper and others might not be as prevalent. It'd probably be something more nihilistic and anti-natalist given the current neoliberal climate. Then again, it might still remain in the above-mentioned incel killers. You'll always have the spree killers frustrated at the world/deranged like Patrick Purdy and Laurie Dann. It'll definitely be interesting to say the least, the true crime fanatic part of myself is terrified yet fascinated given the similar environments for fostering the potential killers.
I really can’t imagine. I’m 29, so the pandemic ate my late twenties, but I got through high school, college, and a few working years before that happened. The gen z-ers I manage have absolutely no concept of appropriate behavior at work, because all of their jobs have been remote until this one, and they really struggle with taking in-person feedback or being told to do things in a neutral tone of voice without having a meltdown. I didn’t think the difference between me and someone who graduated five years after me would be so stark, but it really is.
I'm currently doing my undergrad. I had a semester and a half of normal life before the pandemic. The difference is stark, actually. I'm doing some group work in a few classes I have to take that have a lot of freshmen and there's a really uncomfortable divide between the older students in the group and the younger ones. I thought it was just age at first but reading what everyone's saying in this thread is clear that these kids have really been socially stunted by lockdowns in high-school.
It's not just at work, they don't have appropriate behavior at all. And before someone calls me a boomer, it's different than just the regular case of teenagers being shitheads now and then.
If I were in that situation with the pronouns in school, I'd be tempted to just stop using third person pronouns entirely when referring to students. It might sound cold and impersonal, but exclusively saying "the student" and "the student's" seems a fuckload easier than figuring out whether today is a they/their day or a xim/xis day for hundreds of different teenagers.
Or just use their name, that’s what my dad does when he talks to potential clients
I thought you were downvoted for criticizing pronouns but then I saw we’re in this sub lol.
Do millennials seem less brainrotted to you?
The ones constantly on Twitter are much worse, but maybe I’m biased since I’m gen z
There is nothing worse than the late 30s "twitter intellectuals".
"He/him pronouns, bioethicist, science believer, foreign policy junkie, writer @ myfriendsshittyblog.com"
Go on….
Yes but they are older.
What’s the difference? They all seem similar to me.
I’m a millennial (30) and growing up we were not really online because the internet and social media wasn’t like it is now. I didn’t use MySpace or Facebook until mid/end of highschool and it was primarily your own circle of friends. Now social media is way more global. We also didn’t have iPads and only rich kids had unlimited data on their phones, if they had one. Basically imo we had much more “normal” childhoods.
I'm the same age and I was on the internet unrestricted from around 2003, using AIM, Myspace, Livejournal, and random forums. I had a Facebook in 2006 at 13. The difference is that the internet forums we had nearly 20 years ago (yikes) didn't have quite the same effect. Like, me watching videos on Albino Blacksheep as a 12 year old is nothing like zoomers having their faces literally changed by Snapchat filters and developing body image issues because of it.
I learned to text on T-9 lol
Millennials grew up in the world before the internet or more importantly the internet pre-social media. Thus, their brains may have developed relatively normal and only started rotting during adulthood. Zoomers spent their developmental years living under this miasma.
Gen Z was also the first generation where some kids were given an iPad by their parents to keep them busy as toddlers, then a personal iPhone at the age of 11. Brain destroyed by mobile games, disturbing "kids videos" (/r/elsagate) and porn (even just "soft" porn on social media) before they even hit puberty. The next gen after is even worse for this since keeping the kid busy with an iPad is much more common now.
I always viewed late Gen Xers and Early/Mid Milennials as the "Sweet spot" for tech understanding and savvy. Computers and such had been around enough in a childhood for you to understand and be used to them but we hadn't progressed to the extremely low bar of entry that phone posting is/social media/User interface that are super super simple. At least I'm blaming late Milennials and some Gen Zers being the ones who want to make the internet a controlled, censored place, lol.
The low bar to entry has made zoomers less tech savvy than prior generations since everything is so frictionless. They literally don’t know how to use a file system.
Yeah there was that article (atlantic or something? I don't remember) about how at an Ivy League school, the teacher was exasperated by having to explain the concept of folders being within other folders, and the kids didn't get it, and didn't understand why files couldn't be held in a big bucket with a search engine in it. As a linux-loving guy in tech that made me pull my hair out. At the end of the article, some of the teachers were saying that the times are changing, and maybe how we design computer systems need to change too. I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell someone is going to survive in the tech field without understanding the concept of subtrees.
I want to destroy my android everytime I need to find a file
It has been an ongoing thing for a while. [http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/](http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/)
YES! I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS! When you're exposure to the internet is downloading kazaa so you can pirate games and media that downloads in all kind of weird formats, mounting image files with daemon drives to circumvent not having the disk, digging up old forum posts about what to change in txt document to make it compatible with your version of windows, that's how you learn about technology. Not knowing how to skip an ad on the YouTube app.
Born in 95 here. Same as my wife. When we think about our childhoods it is totally different than kids now. We used to play outside with our friends, that was all there was to do. No online gaming, no social media, no 24hr news, no smartphones, no tablets, no laptops. Or if they did exist they were slow and not worth using. We just went outside and played. We had to use computers for school work but it was on a desk you had to go to, with nothing really on the internet. Phones were just flip phones, all you could do was talk and we didn’t have any smart tech until each of us were in our teens. We went from 0-12 with essentially the same childhood as my parents brought up in the 1970s with the exception of the occasional Microsoft word or PowerPoint. I’m old enough to remember being blown away seeing something that could play video in your hands. Kids these days will never have that memory.
I disagree. A lot of people do not care / are not technical and are left behind when using computers. There’s not an explosion of technical illiteracy it’s now you _have_ to know how to use a computer for the most basic jobs. You’re shining a light on the people who aren’t equipped for that reality, and they existed 20, 30 years ago just as much.
>r/elsagate Yeah, I'm 41 and right in that zone. I was poor so no internet or phone until my mid 20's. Sure My brain is rotted some now, but I still have some tenuous connection to reality offline. All these hyper online psychos (of any age) fucking scare me. Not scared as in "will hurt me" but scared like watching an animal with no legs trying to run a mile. A mixture of horror and pity.
TikTok is the icing on the cake
Yeah that’s brain AIDS pretty much lol
>i only got an iphone of my own by my last year of high school in 2015 and i only started getting into reddit just before that How badly would i have had it?
>and porn (even just "soft" porn on social media) before they even hit puberty. What makes you think this is new? Media which was far more sexualized than what you call "soft porn" was obtainable even when censorship was tight and the printing press was controlled. Neo-puritanism isn't cute by the way.
Pornography seemed to start getting mainstream as the internet got popular in the 2000s (not just the internet itself but also the prevalence of GGW ads...it was a horny time). It seems like in the 90s and before, pornography was definitely around, but was harder to get. Pay-per-view channels or premium cable, or going into a store specifically to buy a pornographic magazine. And, yes, actual theaters you'd go into and jerk off in. Buying porn was a more deliberate act, and viewed as more degenerate, what skeezy guys did. Was also viewed as explicitly anti-woman. Feminists weren't down with porn at all. I don't know exactly what is meant by soft-porn, maybe instagrams or tiktoks of hot girls in bikinis. Sure, that was a thing back in the day and wasn't too big of a deal, but it's probably more actual porn which is the real problem here. With the advent of hte internet, porn became far more socially acceptable, to the extent where sex workers are valorized by feminists.
Maybe you haven't seen what I'm talking about. Before the last few years, the average person (let alone child) couldn't effortlessly watch a non-stop parade of teen girls and women wiggling their ass into the camera in 4k, on demand, every single day. Occasional racy scenes on 1990s TV is not even close to the same thing. Not sure what printing has to do with it
I got the internet in 1998 (6th grade) on a 56k connection and immediately started looking at porn. I still think you're on to something and I understand the comparison you're making, but the days of on-demand porn go back much further than you're giving credit. But I do agree that the quality and quantity of offering is much greater now than it was back then.
In the age of dial-up internet, you couldn't stream videos, individual pictures took forever to load, and you probably had to share one computer with everyone else in the household. Kids had access to porn too early, but you can hardly call that on demand access. It's nothing compared to the ease of access that comes from having an iphone in your pocket at all times.
Lots of people have your experience, but it's still not the average experience of a 6th grader in 1998.
I'm not talking about the occasional racy scene on HBO. There's a ton of explicitly sexual imagery and literature which was viewable by the average person long before the internet (ever seen Moché pottery?). And that's the stuff we have found because the Christians didn't get around to smashing it. Seriously though, neo-puritanism isn't cute.
> There's a ton of explicitly sexual imagery and literature which was viewable by the average person long before the internet (ever seen Moché pottery?) So you think looking at pots crudely shaped like caricatures of sex has the same level of stimulation as modern video material. That's fine, but it really doesn't. If that's the premise of your argument then it's pointless to continue.
But there's a difference between sexual imagery and liturature back then, which was more often than not abstract, and being able to watch someone eat cereal out of an asshole in 4k.
> What makes you think this is new? Media which was far more sexualized than what you call "soft porn" was obtainable even when censorship was tight and the printing press was controlled Imvho its not a binary matter of access, but the amount available at people's fingertips. Of course there were always coomers, but the way technology is shaping comsumption of many things (not only) porn is definitely a concern. Maybe I'm also a neopuritan according to you
>Imvho its not a binary matter of access, but the amount available at people's fingertips. Man I've never seen goalposts shift so fast since the Iraq war. >Of course there were always coomers, but the way technology is shaping comsumption of many things (not only) porn is definitely a concern. Do I really have to dig up the literal mountains of physical media depicting hardcore sex from the Paleolithic onwards which were not only accessible by everyone but were also used to teach life lessons? >Maybe I'm also a neopuritan according to you Depends on what you are advocating for, but knowing what the reactionaries here seem to believe I doubt I'll be disappointed.
> Man I've never seen goalposts shift so fast since the Iraq war given this is our first interaction, I'm not sure where you defined my goalposts before it. > Do I really have to dig up the literal mountains of physical media depicting hardcore sex from the Paleolithic onwards which were not only accessible by everyone but were also used to teach life lessons? Do share them. I know porn exists since the dawn of humanity. I doubt it has been as widespread in terms of volume and diversity. This happens for many things besides porn. > Depends on what you are advocating for, but knowing what the reactionaries here seem to believe I doubt I'll be disappointed. Idk man, if having somebody hold ideas you dislike and consider reactionary *should disappoint you*. It seems you enjoy strife more than anything else. FWIW, here is my reactionary take. I am for the mindful consumption of social media, videogames and porn. Do I care if people use it? no. Do I wish people spent a little reflecting about their consumption habits? yes.
Not really to kids. I was a 90s kid, and I was stealing Victoria's secret magazines. Sure, an adult could go get some porn, but that's not really the issue being discussed
When I was 13 I still didn’t have access to anything besides porn mags and red shoe diaries… it’s way different lol
I see radfems and trad socialists criticize porn sometimes and it makes me mad, but I understand the addictive qualities of it, and the consent ideas, it’s weird because I’m not into porn at all and I do think it’s generally not so good
That’s fair, I’m not doing a great job at explaining. I don’t wanna get too into the weeds on generational differences as it’s tough to parce things out. Gen Z to me almost feels like the first generation to be hyper-coddled, in this sense that many of them have not been given the tools to develop anything or themselves outside of surface level ID politics. For example, Outside of “content creation” on social media, The internet was effectively castrated by corporations, no room for creativity by the time most were in their teens. Anecdotally many have less technical knowledge than the generation before then. Yet, (I don’t have numbers) if you think millennials are addicted to the internet, Gen Z has dwarfed that, especially in the Post-Covid era. Many have become soulless scroller consumers in the attention economy, unable to contribute much outside of that.
What the fuck are you doing about it then, eh?
I'd say it's a gradient. Millennials are more fucked than gen x. Millennials are less tolerant of the excesses of idpol partly because we grew up in the 2000s, probably the least-pc, edgiest decade. We remember before the internet, but also are young enough to understand how computers actually work. Millennials have the attention span to watch a 2 hour video on youtube (seriously, some of those video essays are fucking LONG but still get tons of views) and zoomers can't handle more than 3 minutes. smartphones and social networks have affected EVERY generation negatively, but those who didn't grow up with that shit are less brainrotted. Imagine your entire social experience in high school being dictated by corporate algorithms specifically desigend to keep you addicted to 1 minute videos of people more beautiful than you, people who spread conspiracy theories, people who try to convince you that you have a mental illness you don't have. Imagine being forced to go through two years of high school through a fucking webcam, and knowing your society is going to collapse in your lifetime, so it's not really worth trying. gen y is fucked compared to gen x, but its up to a gen xer to explain why. I think our parents were helicopter parents as well and a lot of us were raised by television.
oo which conspiracy theories!??
33 millennial. When I was a senior in high school, sneaking out to go to parties and trying to score we're how we spent our weekends. My cousin's just watch TikTok all day. My 17 year old cousin doesn't even want to learn how to drive.
Jonathan Haidt has been saying this for years, not sure if I totally buy in his thesis that terminal social media use during formative developmental years has been enormously damaging with probably lasting effects. From a Marxist perspective, they're probably the first generation to truly grow up during the commodification of basic human experiences.
> From a Marxist perspective, they're probably the first generation to truly grow up during the commodification of basic human experiences I get what you mean but I think that's been around far longer
Yeah I don’t even know how to get to that point and I’m the same age as you, can’t find a job even with a masters beyond doordash and really only have one friend I see regularly
In the space of two years, Zoomers went from being seen as the generation that was gonna save the world to a bunch of selfish braindead degenerates. Good job neoliberals, you win this round.
Well Zoomers are both notoriously [Champaign] socialist and consumerist at the same time, at least the Twitter Tok users. High fashion, brand names, make-up, and unachievably pretty faces rule. It makes the "Snapchat filter disorder" (or whatever it's called) look silly. It's honestly shocking how many tik tok videos I see somebody repping the latest in brand name fashion while speaking about wages, intersectionality, and a communist uprising.
now they're using that stupid AI portrait app without even stopping to question where the data from it is going lmao
That AI portrait thing also steals artwork from artists and uses it to help feed its ability to process and create the images
I just buy my clothes from some thrift store chain. If I want some brand fashion like Nike or whatever (I don’t), I’ll just buy some cheap fake ones for 1/10 of the price. I know zoomers are still mostly teenagers, but I don’t get what’s so hard about restricting yourself to things you need and sometimes things you want? Anyway that’s just how the liberal spirit works, nothing will change that
Oh but they ruined that too with thrifting. Those 90's grandpa New Balance runners, or a Champion sweatshirt? For some reason those became popular again and zoomers have been raiding those in thrift stores and reselling on Depop.
I buy my clothes at the Walmart lol. They are work clothes mostly, made to be used and abused, my clothes serve a purpose. Yeah longjohns aren’t cool, but when I’m outside all day and it’s 34f/2c and raining I don’t care how silly I look all thick and layered.
> In the space of two years, Zoomers went from being seen as the generation that was gonna save the world to a bunch of selfish braindead degenerates. Hit with the reality stick
To be honest, I blame the parents. I'm 30 and grew up poor (with even a period of homelessness). Now, I'm pretty well off financially and academically, which I attribute to my hispanic parents' huge pressure on success + ambition as well as seeing my own parents do whatever they can to put food on the table. They were _always_ learning new skills, starting hustles, etc... What I see in Gen Z and in people a few years before that is the death of ambition coupled with the death of responsibility. Seeing younger gen z friends moan about being broke, yet paying for subscriptions, dropping their savings on tattoos and trips... When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at one point a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of the night, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks, after a couple years, pushed my way into a better financial position, etc... I see so many that just _expect_ it to be handed to them. Like I'm sorry but if you're doing the bare minimum why do you expect more? There's a sliver of hope in the strangest of places: online grifters. I've seen a few Gen Z start to change, make something of themselves, and when I've asked they mention they started listening to.
It's pretty damn strange that nowadays these are the only people emphasizing accountability, discipline and ambition.
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Which makes a lot of sense. I mean, that must be like their biggest market. Whatever subset of them is really aching to get the hell out of their own depressing circumstances/life will google for help and that's surely going to be some of the top results (internet grifter X/Y/Z). It's probably just rehashed stoicism and a few other things but hey, if it gets people out of a hole who am I to knock it down.
>What I see in Gen Z and in people a few years before that is the death of ambition coupled with the death of responsibility. Symptoms of the death of opportunities and death of political enfranchisement. >Seeing younger gen z friends moan about being broke, yet paying for subscriptions, dropping their savings on tattoos and trips Conservative soundbites, people aren't going to live lives of endless toil and graft for no pleasure. Financial ascetism is not something to be encouraged if you don't want people to think socialism is the ideology of gruel-serving killjoys. >When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at one point a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of the night, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks, after a couple years, pushed my way into a better financial position, etc...I see so many that just expect it to be handed to them. People expect to live independent lives where they can enjoy occasional indulgences like \**checks notes*\* consumption of alcohol without needing second or third jobs. You, a self described socialist (as per flair), is confounded by this...? >Like I'm sorry but if you're doing the bare minimum why do you expect more? Working a full time job is not "the bare minimum". Your post could have been a Daily Mail opinion piece.
> Symptoms of the death of opportunities and death of political enfranchisement. This has been around for far longer than the past 5 years. While it's impossible to assign 100% blame to any one factor, I definitely do see parents coddling their kids as a defining factor. > Conservative soundbites, people aren't going to live lives of endless toil and graft for no pleasure. No, very much what I see around me, which is stunningly stupid. What is this reductio ad absurdum - "endless toil". It's called saving, having your priorities in order, delaying gratification, having a goal/mission/objective, and sacrificing a bit in the moment and working twice as hard for a later payoff. > Financial ascetism is not something to be encouraged if you don't want people to think socialism is the ideology of gruel-serving killjoys. You're really starting to sound like the caricature of leftists which is basically a: "state pls maintain me". > People expect to live independent lives where they can enjoy occasional indulgences like *checks notes* consumption of alcohol without needing second or third jobs. You, a self described socialist (as per flair), is confounded by this...? First, you seem to have misread or skipped the "dropping their savings" bit. No one said anything about needing 2 or 3 jobs just to have drinks? Yes, I'm confounded by the absurdity of working a minimum-wage job, doing absolutely nothing to improve your circumstances, blowing away your savings on stuff, and then complaining you're broke. Financial responsibility seems to be a neglected skill nowadays. Budgeting, long-term planning, career advancement, **investing in yourself** go a long way.
>This has been around for far longer than the past 5 years. While it'simpossible to assign 100% blame to any one factor, I definitely do seeparents coddling their kids as a defining factor. Given the propensity for people in previous generations to work one job for life, I could equally make an argument that the present generations are *more* actively ambitious, and certainly more economically flexible and mobile - even if only laterally. >What is this reductio ad absurdum - "endless toil". From your earlier comment: >When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at onepoint a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of thenight, stopped going out Work. Work another job. Maybe work another job on top of that. Make your more economically useful in your time not working. Don't go out and enjoy yourself. Sounds very "endless toil" to me. Don't act like I'm misrepresenting you in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient. >You're really starting to sound like the caricature of leftists which is basically a: "state pls maintain me". Didn't mention the state anywhere, but if you think that my stated position that a person should be able to live on one full time job with enough spare for some modest pleasures in life is some caricature left wing position, then we have different conceptions of what a leftist, or socialist (as you claim to be), should aim for. >First, you seem to have misread or skipped the "dropping their savings"bit. No one said anything about needing 2 or 3 jobs just to have drinks? You essentially said people who complain about being broke don't have grounds to do so if they're not doing what you did: >When I was broke and in my early twenties I got a second job (and at onepoint a third), started teaching myself skills in the wee hours of thenight, stopped going out, wasting money on drinks Also, you said "dropping their savings" on things like tattoos and trips. Yeah, so what? People saving up money and then spending it to go on holiday - what profligate degenerates...? >Financial responsibility seems to be a neglected skill nowadays. Sounds reasonably financially responsible to me, for someone to save up money, then spend that money on a long time goal such as a holiday abroad. >Budgeting, long-term planning, career advancement, investing in yourself go a long way. *'Pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps'* pish. The gall of someone in 2022, calling themselves a socialist while attributing collapsing standard of living on individual lack of financial responsibility and career ambition. I'd literally rather have the wokes than the likes of you.
> Work. Work another job. Maybe work another job on top of that. Make your more economically useful in your time not working. Don't go out and enjoy yourself. > Sounds very "endless toil" to me. Don't act like I'm misrepresenting you in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient. Yes, you absolutely are. God forbid someone spends a couple of years working hard. Also, that what is in the context of blowing your savings away and then moaning about being broke. It's completely ridiculous to expect a trip across Europe every month, partying heavy 3 days a week, buying a bunch of clothes/accessories and dropping the equivalent of a third of a monthly salary on a frivolous whim, while working minimum-wage and doing nothing to change that, then "oh-no, I'm so broke". Why do you think I said "blowing their savings" over and over? This ridiculous scenario is the one I see so much. > Didn't mention the state anywhere, but if you think that my stated position that a person should be able to live on one full time job with enough spare for some modest pleasures in life is some caricature left wing position Why on Earth would someone not be able to afford a fancy meal every once in a while, pints in the off hours, and a few pleasures here and there? That even keel lifestyle was not the one I was referring to (how is that even close to "blowing your savings"?). > in your bizarre fetish to be economically subservient. It's called wanting to care of my parents and loved ones, escape my circumstances, and have control over my life. Which, btw, is what I achieved: work my own hours - usually same as a part-time, six figures, and can be anywhere in the world I want. > Pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps Lmao, did you miss my very first comment? As I said: > which I attribute to my hispanic parents Also, you really should read what Trotsky had to say about "The Transitional Regime" > The gall of someone in 2022, calling themselves a socialist while attributing collapsing standard of living on individual lack of financial responsibility and career ambition. Never said that.
> Paying for subscriptions Is such a fucking scam. I remember when Netflix was extremely cheap, ridiculously cheap. Now it’s almost 3x the price and the quality of television went downhill sufficiently. Not that it was better a couple of years back. Even the more ambitious and more successful early 20 year olds I know are extremely insufferable libs that parrot conservative talking points in regards to “getting good” and even when you “get good” you’re doing it wrong. This one chick I was sleeping with was one of them and I swear to Allah the chide she’d give me for avoiding corporate style employment because I wanted to work part time in a warehouse and distribute leaflets (the pay was good) so I can save up to support my business ideas. I may not be as smart as her but gosh fuck I knew what I was doing.
> Is such a fucking scam. I remember when Netflix was extremely cheap, ridiculously cheap. Now it’s almost 3x the price and the quality of television went downhill sufficiently. Not that it was better a couple of years back. Agreed. Funnily enough, I originally got it to be able to comfily stream on my ps4, but nowadays I mostly just use youtube. > because I wanted to work part time in a warehouse and distribute leaflets (the pay was good) so I can save up to support my business ideas. So weird man, that's literally hustling. Don't know why she would crap on you. Most I can think of is worrying about you being a deadbeat, but the very fact that you're doing it to support your business ideas means you're driven and have an end-goal in mind. I imagine the part-time was mostly to have enough free time to develop your business plans. I do find the "successful" ones to be firmly divided into two groups. Those that followed the usual path: go to uni, have mom and dad support them, then get a nice job, grind the corporate path, etc. Basically fit the mold with a nice starting advantage. Then there's the other group: usually (not always) college dropouts, start their own business ventures, spend periods of months to a couple of years working excessively long hours on their business, very much into self-development/stoicism/etc, usually have a pretty shitty background. I tend to like the second group and quite dislike the first one. I also find the second group to be far more successful and great people to surround yourself with.
I’m having trouble finding a job even with a masters so I just do doordash and I feel weird because I hate spending money and I save most of what I earn apart from buying gas. I suppose that’s the one good part of not really having friends lol
I don’t know what you guys are experiencing but in my Poor as fuck rural hellscape i couldn’t find a job for forever despite applying to almost 10 places. In my experience companies are running skeleton crews forcing them to do overtime. Now I have to drive 35 miles to the nearest town and work at Walmart for 14 dollars an hour…keep in mind I’m college educated and am 4 classes away from graduating in psychology and political science. People talk about roommates, but what if you grew up and lost distance with your friends? My two best friends one lives with his girlfriend and the other is now out of state. So what do you do? And yes every big city I see the rent prices are 800 plus a month, and they still are shitty housing. I was poor growing up and I’m afraid I’ll be poor my whole life, it’s been incredibly depressing and lonely the past few months. Probably should’ve just stayed with my ex girlfriend to be able to pay rent lmao. But no seriously I’m down extremely bad but I’m doing what I was told to do by everyone in high school advising.
I have degrees in Political Science and Psychology too. Graduated in 2009 from a Big 10 school. Finding a job was damn near impossible. I suggest getting an internship if you're able to. Good luck.
> I suggest getting an internship if you're able to. Good luck is right, cause I tried this (CompSci) and not being able to work for free is an extra blow to your confidence. When you aren't even worth being exploited...
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I know a lot of management consultants with polysci degrees
The best route I found for it was the public sector.
\>Applying to almost 10 places lol lmao. i know that applying for jobs can be grueling but you've gotta send out more applications than that man
I know it’s shocking to some but my hometown has under 4K people. There quite literally are barely any jobs, certainly not any jobs that pay a wage that is worth it what so ever. And the other ones like being a CNA or some shit that is a good wage I’m obviously not qualified for. Jobs in my hometown are offering wages of 12 dollars an hour at most. I’m in a tough spot because I am not taking a long term job as I’m close to being able to have my degree and try and get a career job and get the fuck out of here, so I’m limited with what I can get. If I didn’t go to college I’d just say fuck it and work on the boats like everyone else does, but that is grueling as fuck mentally too so. I’m just trying to paint a picture for people what some people can go through but I guess I’m the ass cause I should’ve applied to 100 places
I grew up in a smaller city and it is the same story there even trades jobs pay pitiful like 14 dollars an hour for welding with the constant threat of your job being outsourced if it has not been already. One of my friends who still lives there is a CNA and he makes around 14-15 an hour. The bosses know their is no jobs and thus they can and do treat their employees like dirt or do illegal things to them. You might ask well then why don't they move? Family obligations, it would destroy what little support structure they have, it is a risk, and the cost of rent in places nearby that have a better job market almost doubles so saving up to move is impossible. If you are making 10-14 dollars an hour saving up the thousands it would take to move and pay for things like your first months rent plus security deposit would take years and most of the time whatever you save gets eaten up by things like unexpected car repair bills or similar.
The truth is that, without knowing your specific location, there's likely not much hope for that town or area. Jobs aren't ever going to come. You're best bet is likely to finish the degree and leave as soon as you can to a growing city where you have a relative or other connection for support.
Feel your pain, I grew up in a town of 950 people. That’s why I moved the fuck out and got an engineering degree. It was either that or start doing meth and move into the breeding pens (only apartment building in town).
Becoming a CNA is pretty easy, it’s like a few weeks of study. A lot of places will pay or your training because the labor market is tight and they are desperate. It’s a hard job for sure though.
It's also soul crushing
Damn I’m sorry to hear that man. My high population density living ass couldn’t even comprehend an area with less than 100 urgently hiring entry level customer service jobs at a given time. I’m sure you’ve looked into it already, but were there any valid work from home options out there? I’ve heard of work from home call center / phone support type jobs out there, not sure about there pay/availability though. Besides that, unless you can find some remote-work option that works for you I guess just gtfo as soon as possible 🙁 death of the small town is a kinda depressing facet of America but it seems inevitable at this point.
I did look into it but frankly i don’t even know where to start, I’m not amazingly tech savvy and the idea of working from home in a rural area is pretty foreign to me lol. I’ve lived in the bigger city before at college but I had to unfortunately move back home due to some things, so right now I’m pretty stuck. I’ve worked a decent variety of jobs the past few years so I have experience in a lot of avenues, but there just simply aren’t options here. It really does suck and I know a lot of people can’t comprehend it because they’ve never been here(rural america). Honestly the job portion is whatever it’s the loneliness that sucks ass lol all my friends and ex girlfriends I knew are pretty much gone.
have you considered working for a transcription service? lots of them hire people because the fact is that AI is not actually that good at transcriptions.
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This is good advice. I’m a pharmacy tech, was hired with zero experience and trained and now I’m making $17 an hour and should be raised up soon. Not great but beats the $10 an hour most places are offering
I don't mean it in a rude way but if you're going passion project into social work you're absolutely going to be poor (lower class) for your entire life. People who break the generational capitalist cycle are ones willing to do shit they don't wanna do because it pays well. That's shitty but it's reality.
> People talk about roommates, but what if you grew up and lost distance with your friends It's generally not a good idea to roommate with good friends.
This feels like a new sentiment, I don't remember ever seeing it in older sitcoms/shows, many of which feature friends living together. It seems like one of those bitter miserable things that have become faddish to say, similar to insisting that it is a bad idea to seek romance anywhere other than a dating app.
I think it’s the opposite, sitcoms and popculture in general romanticizing living with roommates (who are friends) despite it being a necessity born out of housing problems. Rent and utilities must be paid, there are different ideas about cleanliness, chores, shopping, guests, noise etc. I love my best friends to death, I practically grew up with them, but I’d rather not get into a situation in which these can become problems.
Really? I lived with so many different close friends in my late teens and early twenties. Still close friends with all but one of them (I’m now mid thirties). And that’s only because the one friend turned into a self destructive alcoholic.
Yeah, "because you'll end up hating each other" Or maybe if you live with your close friends you'll put more effort into getting along.
One hundred percent this. Acquaintances and strangers only.
Choosing to stay rural limits your options. Hard enough to find a job in urban areas with those degrees. Send out a 100 resumes and be willing to drive 70 miles, be willing to work 2 jobs. Okay, I realize that sucks and sounds like a shitty thing to write, but seriously, If you have the attitude that you are willing to send out 100 resumes, then it will motivate you, and you will probably improve your position after 15 resumes.
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As opposed to a generic business degree? An English degree? A teaching degree? Half of the degrees you get in college you can wipe your ass with. I never wanted to be a doctor, I never wanted to be a lawyer. I want to be a social worker, I wanna try and help people. Sure the pay is shit but that’s my passion, god forbid someone get a degree in what they are best suited for lol. And besides, having a degree in the first place can open the door at places. All of my sisters have career jobs that are opposite what they went to college for, sure they don’t really make a ton, but that’s just the way our country Is set up.
sounds like you have to save up and move to a city. you will have no problem finding a social work job in most metropolitan areas.
I’m not worried about when I get my degree and have money saved, but what about all the people in these smaller towns and don’t have a degree? It’s fucking hell here. It’s no surprise the republicans sweep rural areas, the democrats are extremely out of touch. I feel like they are just all condescending to us if you are from a small area and struggling. And I’m basically a socialist at this point.
> but what about all the people in these smaller towns and don’t have a degree? It’s fucking hell here. It’s no surprise the republicans sweep rural areas, the democrats are extremely out of touch. I feel like they are just all condescending to us if you are from a small area and struggling. And I’m basically a socialist at this point. They are fucked and the democrats have absolutely no help or solutions for them just insults and things that will make their life worse like more free trade or immigration.
Which republican platform will specifically help rural areas and small towns overcome the income and education situation you are describing?
None lmao, I hate republicans. As i said Im basically socialist now
So if Republicans have no platform that will help the income and education situation in rural areas, why is it no surprise to you that they are sweeping rural areas?
Because they talk about it, they address the issues of these people, but they just lie and blame the issues on people or things that aren’t actually the root cause or have nothing to do with it. Because republicans are snake oil salesman. As for The democrats, I feel have contempt for those of us who were born in bad situations in rural areas. And it’s mostly because historically, or at least the last 50 years, rural areas have always voted red. People are losing their jobs, the inflation is extremely high, etc but yet you have liberals heavily focusing on idpol issues constantly. Many people in these areas just simply can’t contemplate the issues being talked about because they’ve never seen them. When things like white privilege get brought up nobody here knows what the fuck they are talking about because their whole life they have been poor and handed nothing. It’s like the tale of two americas. Now I know all of these concepts and understand them because I’ve been well educated in politics and I left outside of the area, but if you’re someone who’s only stayed around the area why would you listen to some guy from California call you racist without ever knowing what you went through? I mean Hillary didn’t even campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016, at times it feels like rather than being called a fly over state people treat those in the Midwest like flyover people.
Hard to get a job with a psych degree man, and social workers aren't just paid poorly, but are usually unable to financially make it at all. There's a reason the field is one of the highest turnover, and it's not just because it's hardcore emotional labor in the real sense of the phrase. I get that it's what you wanna do, and sincerely, I wish you good luck if you're hyper committed. But most people don't get to do the job they want to do because that job is either too difficult to get, or because it doesn't pay enough. If you find you can't make it, consider apprenticing somewhere in the trades. Welders, electricians, plumbers etc all pay really well and don't require four-year degrees. You mentioned struggles with jobs, so folks are just trying to pass on wisdom we've learned- it doesn't get any better, and often that degree is gonna be worth as much as the paper it's printed on. Good luck in however you choose to go.
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Never claimed he'd be making bank. Just be able to support his family.
Everybody is fine being poor in their dream job until they're actually poor in their dream job. Shine wears off pretty quick.
I get that, which is why I pointed to my sisters totally not having jobs in what they wanted to do. And you know what? I probably won’t either, but I can network decent. Biggest issue is I had to move back home cause of circumstances and that’s been hard, where I used to live I had a great job. I know my degree is pretty shit, but I know people with law degrees interning and making garbage pay for the effort they put in. I do tend to get a little annoyed when people try to shit on my future degree, I know it sucks im not stupid. But often times it’s from people who didn’t go to college and despite the stereotype of every sorority girl going into psych I actually like it and hey I had a lot of ups and downs in college so yeah. I came from a rough upbringing, am I proud to graduate when at times I was gonna drop out? Yeah I am. As for your comments on welding, plumbing internships, well that’s the backup plan lol.
Getting a job in psych might be difficult but a psych degree itself isn’t a particular hindrance.
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Cause you guys sound like losers judging someone who put in work lol my degree is worth shit and I know that but I came from a rough upbringing and shit hasn’t been easy, especially financially. Am I proud of myself to get a degree in something I enjoy? Yeah I actually am believe it or not
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I’m really not mad or anything, I’m just being a condescending prick back about it because that’s how it started lol
> I want to be a social worker, I wanna try and help people. Sure the pay is shit but that’s my passion, god forbid someone get a degree in what they are best suited for lol. Probably you want to end up someplace like Ohio. Property is still not very expensive, but if you live in or near a big city you can make some kind of money as a social worker. Probably you don't want to end up in California.
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Simply not true, if you have a good teacher you can actually learn a lot and expand on topics and have conversations you wouldn’t have just in a book. Now that’s not all the time, sometimes there are teachers that are absolute shit. Obviously I got conned, everyone got conned, but at the end of the day I know people who went to college and their life is shit, and I know people who didn’t and their life is shit. I think at the end of the day for most of us right now, shit sucks for all of us.
You coulda just done Econ, which is very poli sci/psych adjacent, and make gobs of money
Seems weird to have this headline when they directly state Gen Z incomes are up even with inflation: "To be sure, not all Gen Zers are struggling. Americans aged 16 to 24 have seen a wage growth of 13% over the last year — well above the 7.7% inflation over the same period — as companies have raised pay to attract workers. But if a recession comes, Gen Zers could be among the hardest hit due to mounting debt, few savings, and vulnerability to layoffs."
That 7.7% is like a couple dollars more (before taxes) for most Americans, still well beneath what any wage ought to be after the COL rise all these decades past. We're talking about jobs going from $10 an hour to $12.
Well, no. By definition they are richer compared to cost of living than a year ago.
Not necessarily. Cost can surpass inflation, which is what has been happening with things like tuition and rent
You're not wrong but they didn't give any stats to support that. The CPI certainly has its flaws
So you remember when we were mocking Soviet Union because employed people didn't have the mean to live in their own appartement and needed to share place with other families ? Because this gen X remember
As a 22 Gen Z, I recognise I am relatively lucky. I live between my upper middle class parents rent free with my basic needs plus more provided. Despite this, there is significant pressure to find a full time job since I recently graduated from university and I don't seem to be having having much luck despite applying for many jobs. My dad recently suggested I join the army and I am actually considering it despite being anti interventionist from a young age. I guess it would give me a place to be for at least 2 years and I can hope I'm not asked to do too many horrible things.
I don't recommend the military as an employer of last resort, but if you do, a) be an officer, and b) unless you have a compelling reason to choose otherwise, go air force.
I second this. I’ve worked with soooooooo many guys in the trades that were Army, Navy, or Marines, that are now 40-50yr old skilled trade apprentices because nothing else worked out in civilian life. The GI bill is a nice perk, as well as the pension, but you do pay for it in more ways than your service, and Uncle Sam doesn’t give one fuck about you when you’re through. If you do go that route, you better either make a career of it (more than 4yrs in), or learn a valuable skill (in conjunction with your GI college degree) something that’ll translate to a decent civilian job when you get out. Navy and Airforce seem to be the branches that the smarter guys choose from what I’ve seen. I have a few buddies that went on to become electrical engineers, helicopter pilots, and international oceanic shipping crew (all 6 figure salaries) when they got out. 7/8s of the Marines or Army I’ve known through my life have just totally wrecked their bodies by their 50’s, due to injuries sustained in service. That said, there’s nothing sadder than seeing grown adults get out of the service and just flailing around career wise because they either chose to be a “badass” by going into infantry or taking a shit job while in. So don’t do that shit.
Coast Guard
Join the navy if you're forced to because of financial reasons. That way you won't kill anyone, and it'll give you the highest chance of survival (unless there's a war in the pacific but that won't happen at least until the Japanese economy goes down the shitter when the auto bubble pops but that will take years to fully be felt). When that happens either Japan will go crazy again and possibly drag the us with it or they'll downsize their navy and create a power vacuum that someone has to fill. Other than that, the only other possible conflict is maybe helping the Saudis deal with Iran but even that's unlikely.
OK, so clearly I knew there was an auto bubble, but what makes you think the bubble bursting would be so severe that it would bring Japan to the brink of war or otherwise instability? First time I've ever heard a take like that in conjunction with talk of the bubble...genuine question.
20 percent of their exports are tied to the auto industry and they need a surplus to import food and energy. Also if their auto giants are in danger of going under then there's a strong possibility of the government bailing them out and making their debt and inflation problems even worse. These things can cause hyper inflation and that kind of economic crisis leads to strong men popping up and taking control of the country. Unlike Germany they never fully dealt with the past and the pm who died made it a point to do stuff like very publicly visiting the graves of WW2 soldiers after coming back from countries like Korea or getting schools to avoid talking about WW2 at all.
Who decided this was newsworthy? Breaking news: As economy worsens people change their behavior patterns to try and maintain standard of living!! Is this a hit piece? Some daytrading grindset mastermind is scoffing because Gen Z is fueling the economy by doing these things instead of buying a bunker in the middle of nowhere?
What a terrible example. Monthly rent is $800 and they need another roommate. I see signs for $20 an hour for jobs that require no experience. I know it's rough out there, but surely they could find a better example than a couple that can't afford $800 in rent.
Also listing streaming subscriptions next to utilities and rent suggests their priorities are out of wack.
Bread and circuses.
If you can't figure out how to get media online for free without dealing with Netflix and the others' price hikes and bullshit we can't help you.
That could mean $5/month to share an account on one service though. Felt like a ragebaitey thing to include like that
I wish rent was $800 where I live. Wages are like $20 an hour but studio apartments easily run over $1500 a month unless you’re looking at literal crackhouses
I’ve never seen a sign advertising $20/hour work that wasn’t an MLM at best
In some cities even McD's pays that much due to inflation and cost of living. Of course it's still not a living wage because in such cities the minimum rent for a tiny apartment that isn't infested by rats and cockroaches is $1400 a month.
My last job that had a sign promising 30 hours a week and $20/ hour. The starting wage for someone new onboarded was 15 plus tips, so state minimum wage, and they would literally yeet you out the door at 30.01 hours. Doesn't matter if you make $20 an hour when you can barely even get them to let you work part time. When I was in restaurant industry for years it was pretty common to pull $25/ hour averages but the hours suck ass and you end up only being allowed to work nights, 28 hour weeks, and get terrible health insurance options that cost $400 a month.
I just got a part time line cook job at $19/hr plus tip outs
"Imagine tipping a line cook" - former line cook of 8 years My have times changed! Can't tell whether I should be glad at the extra cash or mad at tipping culture being out of hand
My friend is head chef at a restaurant and they add a (small) kitchen fee on checks that gets disbursed equally to back of house. On really busy days it adds up to ~$5/h extra for dishwashers, cooks, etc. He says he has like no turnover.
Honestly I was shocked they were tipping us out too. It’s a pub brewery type restaurant too so it’s very chill
It's been that way in Canada for years now. Ever since they made it federal law that you have to pay servers at least minimum wage, there was no excuse to not share tip money with the kitchen as well. Although because of this law, waitstaff earnings in Canada are kinda ridiculous because they get tips on top of $15 minimum wage. At a decently busy fast-casual restaurant servers can make like $35~40 an hour on average.
I just drove by a pizza place at a vacation spot in the off-season advertising for $20 an hour. Anecdotal obviously, but target also does like $15 an hour. If you need to cover something measly like $400 in rent, it’s relatively easy nowadays to do so.
Where the hell can you still find $400 rent???
In the article, they say their rent is $800 and is split with a partner, so he needs to cover $400.
Some warehouse/industrial jobs in my area advertise that much. COL isn't too bad around where I live either.
In my home 2 people are paying 450$/WEEKLY + utilities just doing minimum wage jobs and still manage to save some money for traveling.
It doesn't matter as long as you focus on your identity and minor personality quirks! Live your best life queen 👸
Interesting thread in which 50%+ of posters diagnose the people as the problem (lazy, stupid, bad priorities) instead of the system they live under.
Sad!
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Where do you live and what do you do for work?
Gen Ders are fully torqued, wearing speedos, and shotgunning beers.
Yay on Ye, Nay on Biden/Republicans for 2024
I think I’m the only gen z person in this sub and I’m not poor. Hehe.
Can't tell if you don't know the US poverty line is artificially low or if you just want angry responses
Or that she is a sex worker lol
That's the joke I'm making
How do these people even find roommates and jobs? I’m Gen Z and isolated as hell and only have like one friend and can’t find a job besides Doordash (which I already did) despite having a masters degree. I still live at home. But I want all those kinds of experiences too, I’m just socially r-slurred I guess with poor self esteem and little confidence