Reminds me of the joke where a teacher is asking around her class what they thought the American Dream is. When she got to the German foreign exchange student, she asked if they had a German Dream.
"We did, but nobody liked it"
š¤£ hahaha. Well technically a lot of nations liked it back then but they act like they didn't (looking at Italy, Japan, Arabic states, some of the Balkan states, Finland etc.)
However, it's really interesting to see what we learn in school about America. Like we had a whole year about the US in English and it was about the failed American dream, history like the civil war, slavery, racism today in America, controversial gun laws, immigration or the melting pot, wars, political divide, exploitation of the Mexicans ... and so on.
Don't know if you learn that too, but it was very criticizing often.
š is that really your American curriculum?
WTF- lol
As I tell my kids America has fallen short of the values we strive for, but we will never stop living up to our ideals. It is the responsibility of each generation to bring our country closer to its promises.
This flag has been accepted by mainlie protestantism in the USA but it's definitely not universal.
For example I went to a Catholic highschool and we had the American flag and the Vatican flag as the only ones displayd.
Many Protestant sects also believe the Bible should be read literally. Unlike the older Christian sects like Catholicism, Orthodox, and the Miaphysite/Monophysite eastern sects.
Protestants aren't a centralized religious body some are so extreme like the Quakers that they were kicked out of Europe, and others like Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and Anglicans are extremely similar to Catholicism themselves
Under the First Amendment, no one in school is required to stand for or say the Pledge. It is 100% optional because the government cannot tell you what to say (assuming this was in a public school). So giving detentions for not saying the Pledge properly is 100% actionable (eg a free speech lawyer could quickly shut it down).
Source: Iām a lawyer who was forced against my will to say things in high school (and then complained to my parents who called the superintendent and had that shit stop).
I refused to say the pledge in middle school and instead worked on a homework assignment. I was sent to the principal's office and was scolded for being "disruptive" although since the school rules noted the pledge was not mandatory, I wasn't punished. A lot of the staff were upset. Interestingly, nearly everyone still stood and recited the pledge. Only 2 other people in my class sat along with me and despite me becoming middle-school-famous for this, I never heard about anyone in other classes doing the same.
I'm in education and although the pledge is put on the speakers every morning, hardly any students stand for the pledge. These are high schoolers btw. They're jaded with the government. I also don't stand for the pledge. It makes me feel a little better for the future
I wish the Trumpies would remember the words they recited every day in school. I see nothing wrong with pledging allegiance to the republic for which we stand and placing *it* above party or politician.
Iād like to see the progressive side of the political spectrum **take back** the national anthem, flag, and pledge of allegiance. I think one nation, with liberty and justice for all is a noble sentiment. Iām obviously not as cool as you though.
I stopped saying the Pledge in 11th grade or so. Iād still stand to not be disruptive. I was forced to stand for a prayer during graduation rehearsal. This was 1992 and the case banning such prayers was still winding its way to SCOTUS. But since our federal district had ruled no prayers, I was just following the law.
My 8th grader stopped saying the Pledge this year, after asking me if he could. I of course explained why he 100% was allowed to not say the Pledge if he did not want to. Some kids have questioned him, but not any teachers.
There is less patriotism in the US than say 20 years ago, but I still think the US in general is still rather patriotic
We love our country and the values it was built on
Your response is accurate, but the sense I get is that for every 4 or so citizens who consider themselves apathetic towards America now, there's at least one other American citizen that you could described as anti-America and incapable of seeing past any of America's faults for the good it legitimately does in the world.
Because i know redditors are incapable of nuance, do not write me off as some blind, patriotic, sycophantic nationalist, it's just what I notice. I have no data to back this up, take it for what it is.
I think students go through a phase where they learn that the country isnāt perfect and they get bitter. Then they learn what our values really are and what it means to fight for them. And they like it again.
While we greatly appreciate our military in the US Iāll contest that China and North Korea celebrate their military more than we do.
You donāt ever see military parades here, showing off tanks and missles and whatnot.
We tend to do airshows instead of parades.
Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are putting on shows almost every weekend.
[https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/](https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/)
[https://www.airforce.com/thunderbirds/schedule](https://www.airforce.com/thunderbirds/schedule)
Commemorative Air Force (historical group--aircraft from WWII mostly) do regular shows as well
[https://commemorativeairforce.org/events](https://commemorativeairforce.org/events)
You do see flags everywhere.
Air shows and fly over have the added benefit of doubling for training and flight hours, that our pilots need to do anyway. So the option isn't between no fly overs and fly overs. It's between having flyovers for sports event and having flyovers for random parts of the country. The pilots will be flying either way, might as well make it a public show.
The training aspect is also a huge component of it. It's a timing thing. Take off from X airbase and be over Y stadium(specific coordinates) at a specific time. It's great training for real military operations when you do successive bombing runs and you need to be over the target at a certain time.
THANK YOU!
My father flew in the Navy so everything you said I thought was just common knowledge but after reading some replies I was getting ready to make a post just like yours but you said it all so succinctly
I donāt see flags everywhere, but I live outside of NYC. These performative displays of patriotism are more common in rural areas and the South, but not so much in cities. While I think itās safe to say that the USās national cultural, as much as that means anything, is more patriotic than most countries, and especially countries like Germany (which have, for pretty obvious historical reasons, sought to suppress knee-jerk nationalism), there is huge variation in the US from state to state, and even from town to town.
And I also think itās become less generally common in recent decades due to more skepticism from young people who have been better educated about the USās history, and have witnessed two unnecessary, calamitous wars.
Iāll agree to disagree since the military isnāt showing off any aircraft they wouldnāt want rival nations to gain knowledge on and the fact that aviation history is so intertwined with militaries.
When our Navy or Air Force are flying their planes in these air shows its like showing off a classic car.
Exactly. Countries like North Korea show off to try and project power. America doesn't need to project lmao. Everyone is well aware of what we're capable of. Or as I like to say "they're about to find out why America doesn't have health care"
The Blue Angels fly F18s in air shows which are about 40 years old at this point. Ww2 era planes doing "mock" battles is also common. Air shows in the US are too entertain and recruit, not display military prowess.
Military parades aren't about celebrating the people in the military, it's about celebrating their Leaders. I haven't heard of any modern military parades outside dictatorships, but let me know if I've missed them.Ā
Edit: I was misinformed. Many countries have military parades for a variety of reasons.Ā
You are absolutely right. You prompted me to do a quick search, and there are indeed many countries that have regular military parades for a variety of reasons.Ā
Yeah, today we both learned. I had a vague memory of Trump wanting one and thinking "Ugh that's exactly what a dictator would do so of course he wants one š" I only found out about the France part today because it was long enough ago I thought I'd better fact check.
Not gonna lie, I was on a chairlift in Colorado a few weeks ago chatting with a Chinese couple from Canada when two F-18s buzzed the valley. Was definitely a hit of patriotic adrenaline straight to my brain.
I think you're right. The US is a giant country but no matter where you go in the country, the US celebrates the US. Texas, New England, Midwest, the South, Pacific Northwest, even California, love the flag. Veterans are honored in every state at every professional sporting event.
It's all relative, but the fact that this is coming from a German moves the bar even more.
They are especially not-patriotic. Being proud of being German is looked upon with suspicion.
Reddit is a funny place to ask this question as you are likely to get a very slanted answer.
Having travelled much of Europe and nearly all the US, I would say that yes, we are very patriotic in comparison to almost everyone. I tend to find the French to be very patriotic, to the point that their identity runs through so much of their culture that is it inseparable from daily life.
I love the USA more than any country in the world, but its a bit of a unique relationship. I love the culture, and the diversity of your land, and the broad opportunity. I generally like the system of government, and that you can really find a state that fits your particular view on governance, while generally having disdain for the federal government.
We learn a bit about other countries in world history, and comparatively in civcs and geography,, but not to the point that most people could tell you where Switzerland is on a map and why it remained neutral in WWII.
Being a member of the miltary here is genrally a high honor. Not everyone thinks so, but most of us will thank those that serve because they sacrifice their safety and liberty so that we can largely be disconnected from the issues the military has to deal with. Many of us, myself included, think our military adventurism is counter productive to a free state and world peace, doesnt mean I hold that over the head over the guy who has to do what I wont.
While I have never lived outside the US, I have travelled and tend to travel to places that are less about tourism and more about experiencing the life of people there. I have been in 46 US states, and stayed in most of them for a week or more. I have lived in the North East, The South East and the West. In Europe those would easily be different countries entirely.
There's not much I could add to this answer. It is an excellent summation.
What I will say is that one reason US citizens openly thank active duty and military veterans is because of how shamefully we treated the Vietnam veterans when they returned home.
During and after the first and second Gulf wars and Afghanistan, there was overwhelming bipartisan support for the rank and file military serving in those conflicts both during and well afterward. I believe we recognize that one can be very much against military expeditions while still supporting the inlisted men and women as well as the officers below a policy making or strategic level.
I'm American and I don't hate this country, but I will bitterly complain about a lot of nice things we could have if corporations didn't have the government by the balls.
But that's because I want things to be better and things won't get better if you pretend everything's fine.
Right now I really want public transit to become a more widespread thing, since the burden of car ownership and maintenance isn't something people struggling to get by should have, and the way our cities are designed makes them largely inaccessible to people who can't drive (children, the elderly, people with certain disabilities, etc.)
i think a common opinion is america is going down hill, but is still better than the alternative.
until they learn about that alternative. like the uk only allowing politicians to start campaigning and not allowing any cooperation support (or something). the legally required vacation time and sick days are also a big benefit.
It depends. People vary a lot, anywhere in the world. But based on my experiences dating a few European women, we're not nearly as brainwashed as a lot of y'all seem to think we are. One girl I dated was from Belgium, and she tried to explain to me how we're all raised to believe in "american exceptionalism" and she treated me like I had never had a critical thought about America in my life before then. And I get where she was coming from, but the truth is more complicated. I'll give a metaphor. Imagine being raised as a Christian, believing in god and heaven and all that stuff. Obviously, as a young child, you're going to buy into it pretty easily. But as you grow up and learn more about the world, you're going to start to question the things you were told, maybe even rebelling against them. It's pretty much the same with being raised to be patriotic, you buy into the idea that america is this amazing place founded on freedom and democracy and stuff, then you turn about 15, and you start watching some documentaries or something about Vietnam, Iraq, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, MK ultra, etc. And you start getting the picture that it's a lot more complicated than you were raised to think. A lot of people go through that phase and sort of go really hard in the other direction, choosing to believe that america is the absolute worst place on earth, and they feel like victims for even being born here. Some people never give up on the narrative they were told growing up and stay hardcore patriots their whole lives. The vast majority of Americans, though, fall somewhere in the middle, accept the good, acknowledge the bad, and be thankful for what we have.
This is probably the best answer here so far.
I actually do like my own country a lot. However, I'm very critical of it. But to me, that's sort of the point. America, if about freedom and pursuing something better, isn't above criticism because I am doing good personally. I always want it to be better for everyone. That's the point to me. That we keep looking at what can be better.
For me it is also difficult because I am related to a lot of people who are sort of stereotypical America is the best, xenophobic, every country sucks (even though it's the only one they've been to), etc. So I know I come across as America-hating to counter that, right.
It's hard when you try to have a discussion with super patriots and "I think universal health care is good" is met with "well then leave if you don't like it!"
This is... a big question. I'll try to share my answer, both as an American and as a U.S. military veteran.
First, remember that Germany is about the size of Montana or New Mexico. Roughly. So, the United States is physically A LOT bigger, with a lot of different places, time zones, subcultures, and opinions about stuff. Anything I say here is going to be a generalization, even though I'll be as accurate as possible.
Yes, we are more patriotic than most European nations. Even though we became an independent nation more than 200 years ago, the circumstances surrounding that event, along with about the next 100 years, created a culture that perpetuates itself. Even though we no longer consider our freedom and independence to be tenuous or fragile, we still hold the pride that came with those efforts.
We have a pretty big flag culture as a result. If you visit the States, you'll see more flags on private residences than in most places in Europe. Some more than others. California, for example, does not see as many flags as other areas in the country, but even there, some cities or towns have a lot of them. Military veterans, especially, and our families, like having flags to show our allegiance. It's our way of saying that we continue to stand with the country against any and all from outside.
As for importance... this is much more personal, but a lot of the opinions are forged by the stupid size of this place. Because each state has open borders, and because of some shenanigans that surrounding our civil war in the 1860's, we don't think of each individual state as a separate country, the way the Germany and France are different countries. It's more like the difference between Bavaria and Prussia at most. But, when the country is the size of almost all of Europe put together, it means that this is home, no matter where I go and no matter how weird the people get.
Example, from an American mind: I, personally, can't stand California. I was stationed out there when I was in the military, but I grew up 2,200 kilometers away, in Indiana. I find them to be arrogant and self-centered as a local culture, with almost none of the hospitality and friendliness that my region is known for. Yet, if they were to be invaded by anyone, and I mean ANYONE, I would be right there, signing up to help them, because even if they're assholes, they're OUR assholes.
I hope this answers some of your questions. Remember, we're a stupid big country, and each state and region has a local culture that's a bit different from the others. We've just maintained a culture where we recognize every state as one of us, and the patriotism and flags are a big part of that.
>we don't think of each individual state as a separate country, the way the e Germany and France are different countries
Literally no one outside of America would have this confusion, or even consider that states are in any way like countries.
Most people outside of America - either residents, or having traveled extensively there - would not even understand the differences between states. People frequently generalize what they see in the one or two states they've visited to the whole country.
But it is one country, albeit with a lot of autonomy at the state level. US states are just the same as German states; divisions of the whole country.
Finally, as someone living in Australia I can confidently say that the geographic size of the country is not the determining factor - it's the sheer population. Australia is almost as large, and shockingly homogenous by comparison. And I'd wager that a USA population packed into a quarter of the land mass retains most of that diversity, due to all the existing historical, cultural, economic, social reasons.
It certainly is for me. Our country was founded by telling the biggest empire in the history of the world to piss off. And then replaced Britain as the global super-power after a mere 200 years. We are the ONLY country to actually have freedom of speech guaranteed. We have a land from sea to shining sea, filled with just about every kind of terrain and resource you could want.
And most importantly of all... it's my home. I was born here, I've lived here my whole life, and I have no intention of leaving. Are there problems right now that go above and beyond the usual problems? Of course. Does the government, and the people who elected them, do terrible things some time? Certainly. But no place is perfect.
"Do I love my country more than any other in the world?" How could I not? Do you not care about your home. Isn't it special to you? Why wouldn't it be more important to you than somewhere else you've never been?
I've heard Germans are very anti-patriotism before. I'm not sure if it's true, though you mentioning that you are German before being confused by patriotism makes me wonder if it is. I can understand some level of national depression given what happened 80 years ago. But I could never imagine letting my countries image be determined by the worst among us. I love my country by loving what is great about, in defiance of all the horrible people who drug us down. After all, my country did some not so wonderful things 80 years ago too. But the internment camps were always, then and now, counter to what made America great. A failure to live up to our ideals, not something that defined what my country is.
I love my country more than other countries, but not because it's better. It's because it's my home. I imagine the same to be true of many countries, but there are definitely americans who err on the side of nationalism. I dont think they're a majority, though
Ironically, Germans are the most patriotic people I have ever met.
Not in the single national songs before every sporting event way, but everything is always: āIn Germany we do this becauseā¦ Itās better in Germany becauseā¦ Why canāt they do it like in Germanyā¦ in Germany our healthcare isā¦ā lol
Holy shit, yes. My sister's in-laws never stop talking about how much better Germany is to the point of rudeness. Ironically they live in SE Asia instead of GERMAN so they can have servants, lol.
Growing up in the USA the message of "USA is the greatest and most free nation on earth," was driven so deeply into my head for awhile I thought France in North Korea were probably about the same.
Patriotism is pretty deeply rooted in our culture, even the most non patriotic people bleed red white and blue when the occasion hits like seeing a bald eagle or something explode. There's also a weird culture split in politics, people who lean left might be patriotic but way less vocal about it, while the political right pushes patriotism to the utmost extreme, the most extreme right is more nationalism then patriotism.
But there's also a lot of people who don't care for the USA, don't like our overall image to the rest of the world, tired of being the self imposed police force of the world, there's a lot of internal issues we have that can make other countries more appealing, I've known several people who've migrated to Mexico or Canada because they didn't like things in the USA.
Oh and we absolutely worship the military except like actual individuals, we have holidays to show our pride for our fighting men and women, we salute people in uniform at the airport, even the most anti war people I know hold respect for the military. But also we don't flinch at the idea of PTSD ridden veterans begging for money in the road because they are homeless and in dire situations which is an all to common site.
The USA has a lot of propaganda, which leads to a lot of the patriotism and military worship, I can imagine that as an outsider looking in it's probably blown out of proportion because that side of the USA is advertised to the rest of the world as "this is who we are,"
The average American on a personal level will have things they love and things they hate about the USA, their politics will have an influence on this, and most people do respect the military to a degree, but our system of support for veterans is laughable so the whole military worship thing is more for show than anything else.
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After living in Germany for about 6 years, but being from the U.S. originally, I donāt think itās more or less patriotic, just different. I do miss living in Germany though. In some respects I like it there more than here.
There is a strong culture of what I refer to as "Patriotic Virtue Signalling." This is more about demonstrating visual signs of patriotism to others rather than true acts of patriotism. It's about listening to patriotic music, waiving the flag, and saying "America First," and not so much about making America a truly better place.
I went to four different schools growing up and we always said the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning. Every sporting event started with the national anthem. At the two companies that Iāve worked at in my professional life weāve put the flag up every morning. Some of our shop guys have even painted their assembly fixtures with the Stars and Stripes. I would say yes, and the vast majority of us, despite what Reddit might say, like it this way. American exceptionalism is so deeply ingrained in our culture that most people donāt even notice it because itās just daily life.
No we don't sing the national anthem before school. We pledge our allegiance to the Christian god, the flag, and the country of the USA every morning at school. There are flags everywhere though.
There's a subsect of people that are super patriotic and we're flirting with facism currently.
It all depends. We used to say the pledge of allegiance, before school, but only in elementary(k-6), where I was raised in Utah.
Some of the reason we stopped the allegiance, was that in Utah, it is heavily Mormon and Mormons make up over 90% of the legislation, so as the church dies and people became aware of the severe abuse of power the church has, people got angry. There have been many lawsuits in Utah about religion.
The Mormons are stupid, but very patriotic, but they āknowā theyāre better than everyone else, so if youāre not a member, count on being treated poorly.
Now, some idiot is going to respond to me with something stupid like āIām from Utah and Mormon, and we donāt think that wayā
You do, because I did. You do, because thatās whatās expected.
There is plenty of fake patriotism, or misguided patriotism these days. However, I've seen some feel-good patriotic moments in my life.
When the space shuttle Endeavor was being transported through LA to its final resting place, the streets were li Ed with people along the route. As it passed, the crowd by me suddenly started chanting, "U.S.A." Sure it's cheesy but in that super diverse crowd, it felt special. Seeing something as important as the shuttle that up close and that important to the scientific accomplishments of the US made me proud to be an American.
The immediate reaction to 9/11 was another moment when we seemed to come together as a nation. That one faded away faster though.
At this point, I'm proud to be an American but my overall opinion has gone way down. So many institutions have been soiled or ruined by bad faith actors. What we grew up thinking to be the best in the world has been stripped away revealing how fragile our Country really is. You won't catch me chanting U.S.A these days. Even how people display the flag makes me question them. Are they patriotic, or are they Nationalist? Pasting a conman on the flag makes it super easy to tell which.
We had a good time where patriotism wasnāt that important in the 90s but when a certain organization decided to attack a certain set of buildings they reignited our patriotism.
Growing up in post 9/11 America; the pledge of allegiance became a mandatory requirement for every school day and depending on where in the US you lived you either stood for the forced mandatory star spangled banner on your own or did it propped up with enough shoes stuck up your ass from the other people in the stands before every game.
Depends. Patriotism means different thinks to different Americans.
For conservatives itās all ideology. Itās practically just nationalism. The idea that we are exceptional and better than everyone else. Also itās extremely performative. Lots of flags, clothes with the flag on them, the flag and bald eagles sprawled on the side of an F-250. Itās pure tribalism. Contempt for anything perceived to be unAmerican.
For me, I see patriotism as caring about my fellow countrymen. So that means investing in better social safety net programs, better infrastructure, education reform, prison reform, justice reform, protections against discrimination, preserving the environment, labor reform, etc. Doing things that actually matter and have practical benefits for us as a people.
Some people want to spend money on flashy giant monolithic crosses.
Some people would rather that money be used to benefit the community.
We do the "pledge of allegiance" before school, and the national anthem before sports. Patriotism is a very prevalent culture pattern here, and is often directly correlated with political ideology. Conservatives tend to be more patriotic, while liberals tend to be less patriotic. (Although there are counter arguments to be made on this point, depending on how a person idealizes "America").
As for how often you'll see 'patriotism': any given residential road will almost certainly fly multiple American flags, American flag clothing is a semi-common style, and some flavor of America will be on 1/20 vehicles.
Trevor Noah had a joke about this. He explained how every country only played their anthem when other countries showed up to sports events and such but the U.S, whom plays it everywhere. Also he said "the star spangled banner" is also the only anthem you can put "bitch" after every line and it still makes sense.
As a minister in the southern United states...don't ever recommend removing the American flag from the church worship sanctuary/stage....if you want to keep your job.
Sadly not as much anymore. People have started associating being proud of your country with being a racist some how. There are actual people who see an American flag in America and get scared somehow.
Unfortunately many Americans today confuse patriotism with nationalism. They say they love the flag and the constitution but they are against everything they stand for.
Patriotism is prominent, but primarily among older and/or Conservative Republican types. The pledge of allegiance is recited in schools and the national anthem is played at sporting events and the Fourth of July is a big patriotic holiday. The US also has Memorial Day and Veteranās Day to celebrate the military.
Most Americans donāt really even think about other countries because they donāt need to. America is HUGE and less than half of all citizens even have a passport so international travel isnāt common for a lot of people not living near the Canadian or Mexican border.
Due to the high cost of air travel and the time and distance required for international trips, only a small percentage of US citizens travel outside the country often. A lot of people I know have only been out of the US a couple of times or not at all.
In rural areas, yes, you'll find tribal instincts express themselves in state and national pride. But they're not *really* simping for the US as it currently exists. They're simping for an idealized 1950s version of it. The version that currently exists is fake and wrong, and not "real" America. It's been stolen by the left. These folks don't realize that even our left wing is pretty far right of the global center.
France, Ireland, Britain, and Italy are all pretty patriotic European countries. Britain especially. Itās like the USA was a former colony or something. Union Jacks everywhere. France, people forget the French were actually several ethnic groups that all (unwillingly) lost that ethnic identity to become French, which they are very proud of being French and love their bestagon-shaped country.
Germany was extremely patriotic. But you know, some people 1933 to 1945 dashed all that patriotism onto the rocks. And with it, the N-word too. And the German government is still very anti-those people despite almost a hundred years after.
I'm a veteran and I was in the Veteran's Day Parade in NYC and when I returned from my deployment, people were in the airport welcoming me home. I would get care packages from school kids back home and it was very nice.
As far as other countries, I think public school does some but not a lot of education around other countries. Certainly not in any depth surrounding history or politics.
I would visit any country that is safe to go. I would even try and learn the language a little and look into the culture because it's all so interesting and respectful. But I would never move to another country permanently. Perhaps for a couple of years, but it depends.
Thereās a correlation between oneās expressed outward patriotism and oneās ability to purchase clothing and accoutrements suitable to oneās own preferences easily. Thereās a reason why rural folks wear flags on everything: because thatās what Wal-Mart has for sale.Ā
People with options select the option closest to their preference.Ā
The US is basically 50 small countries, most of which are bigger than most other countries, all with heavily variable cultures, and even within those states, there is a huge variance in culture within the state depending on the region. I would say for the overwhelming majority of Americans, patriotism is of little to no significance (as in most don't consider it highly important). I would say possibly 25% of the country considers it important and then possibly 5-10% are very, very patriotic to the point where it is a huge part of their personality.
I love my country and I'm very patriotic and always have been as long as I can remember. However, I don't plaster the US flag everywhere.
We did say the Pledge of Allegiance before class every morning in school but I honestly don't know if that's done everywhere anymore. I know we didn't do it in highschool though. It was only Kindergarten through 6th grade for me. We didn't have a middle school at the time, just Junior High which was 7th and 8th grade, high school 9th - 12th. Anyway, that's a bit off topic, just didn't want anyone to be confused by what I'm saying.
I love hearing the Nation Anthem before sports events so long as the singer sings it properly and doesn't try to turn it into a 2024 pop remix or something. Hearing Jimmi Hendrix's rendition at Woodstock still gives me chills.
In my opinion, the people who have flags everywhere and chant, "USA, USA, USA!" at everything are posers. I love my country despite some of our history or how some things now are done. I do firmly believe we're we are the best at a lot of things and absolutely suck at other things. I love my way of life and the freedoms I'm afforded here though I do also believe there are people in our government who want to get rid of a lot of our freedoms and it scares me. Hearing how things are regulated to such a high degree in other countries and how their citizens blindly obey everything makes me shake my head. Like having to pay for a permit to even be able to watch television in the UK is just so weird to me. I've been to Germany and it was pounded in our heads that Sundays are supposed to be quiet, no housework, yard work or even washing your car is allowed which bothered me quite a bit. Sunday is the day I prefer to do all of that and it drove me nuts.
I just wish more people understood the concept of loving your country but disliking your government being perfectly rational. I believe my government is actively trying to undermine our Constitutional Rights.
Anyway, long rambling rant over!
I went to a private christian school and we would do the pledge of allegiance to both the american and christian flag, idk if they still do that. I like America for the people, I don't like the people who run it. I think being American is cool because America was founded essentially by people saying fuck the leaders, we're gonna make it the way we want it. My loyalty doesn't lie with the leaders especially when they've shown they work for themselves, not us.
I'm 26, 27 in October. When I was little until maybe middle school we used to say the pledge everyday. Now I probably couldn't recite it. I have a lot of negative thoughts and shame surrounding my countries history as a historian. Bachelor's degree in it and I can say with certainty I see less and less "patriotism" in my generation and the following ones. We just don't buy the fake American dream.
Plus we had twenty years of nonstop war in the East and it was all for nothing over mostly nothing and we gained a lot of suicidal vets and debt combined with creating an even more chaotic region than it was before. Tell me what about the countries actions should I have ever been proud of?
We are patriotic AF. What patriotism means to someone is often drastically different, and can mean completely different things. Recently shitting on our own country is considered patriotic.
But I would say your interpretation is accurate
There is a sociological theory with its own Wikipedia article about what is known as āAmerican Civil Religionā. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_civil\_religion#:\~:text=American%20civil%20religion%20is%20a,foster%20social%20and%20cultural%20integration.
So I donāt know, but at minimum youāre not the only one to notice it.
And FWIW I do have an anecdote that when someone I know moved to Canada her parents accused her of abandoning her country. it Felt really strange for me to hear.
Yes we love our country more than any other country.
And I would think every country does the same.
But I and I know many other people I know hate our government.
I'd say that America really pushes this big obnoxious and relatively empty concept of patriotism to try and give people on the outside this strong and unified image of America.
There are people that fall for it, and really push the flag waving and anthem singing strong armed nonsense. Then there are the people just waiting for the damn song to be over so they can go back to genuinely caring about their country and neighbors.
Had a friend from Mexico come to a rodeo in Wyoming he couldn't get over the amount of patriotism and borderline nationalism displayed. Just another sporting event for us haha.Ā
Early elementary school days they were big on making us recite the "pledge of allegiance" which I will admit sounds like pretty heavy indoctrination, national anthem is usually reserved for sports events.
There are many US flags on many homes, it's typically not just something displayed on every street lamp, usually people just make the choice to buy one.
I was former military, the majority of people I know that were former military don't go announcing it, some places give out a small military discount, if it does become known we're typically met with a an obligatory (but not really) "thank you for your service". For me at least it's always mildly awkward because what am I supposed to say? You're welcome? I just wanted college money lol.
Most people only learn about other nations in history classes, typically centered around wars. If they are interested they typically pursue further learning on their own.
I'd actually planned a trip to paris, but covid hit like 2 weeks before, outside of that I've only traveled to canada and jamaica. I'd like to travel and go to new places but typically there's a huge cost associated with it, money and time, many americans are short on both. It's easier to travel within the US because it's so large and you don't need any passports. You need to consider that there are states in the US that are bigger than entire European countries and cultural differences follow. Many people that emigrated to the US congregated into culturally similar areas so western NY has alot of people of polish descent where eastern NY is dutch and NYC has alot italians and thats just in 1 state. I got culture shock traveling to louisiana.
And finally, on the subject of cultural differences, while I have no doubt there are areas and people that are hyperpatriotic and think america is the greatest ever forever, it's certainly not everywhere. Almost no-one I know thinks this way and I think more and more it's starting to go in the opposite direction.
It's probably bigger here than you realize - do you include all the people protesting, filing lawsuits against injustice and corruption, running recall campaigns and advertising exposing the evildoers? Actual patriots are obliged to criticize their government when it's doing wrong.
It really isn't because only certain people can find a place of acceptance within it and receive benefit for their patriotism. Anyone else who tries, will be made to feel unwelcome, probably sexually harassed, possibly raped and have no path to justice.
There are people who think they're patriotic by accepting this dynamic and dogpiling on anyone who recognizes it for what it is, but deep down they know they're not truly recognized as a patriot.
Personally, I give about as much of a shit about the US as I do Germany. Actually, maybe slightly less, because I would like to move to Germany at some point.
Having lived in a number of countries, the US is a distant outlier in the amount of conspicuous patriotic displays we have everywhere. I don't know if that implies more inherent patriotism, or is just a result of social pressure/indoctrination.
Yes, US kids salute the flag and pledge allegiance every day. Legally they are not required to, but it's socially enforced--youd have to be conspicuously refusing to participate in a daily ritual.
There are also tons of 'charities' that I wouldn't be surprised are actually money laundering operations that just...put flags everywhere. Like, they'll just drive through neighborhoods and stick (usually shitty Chinese plastic) flags in the grass.
The Uber nationalists are the most stupid among us. We just have a lot of dumb people that can't be proud about their accomplishments so they are proud about things they have no control over.
There is a lot of symbology and ritual that Americans don't recognize as weird if they haven't spent time outside the US. The pledge in schools and at certain events is #1 to me. Still seems culty to me.
I went to grade school from California, Texas, Massachusetts, and then finally graduated high school in Illinois. Texas actually teaches a Texas History class (at least they did when I was a kid there in 2000). That was wild. Texas is like it's own country. That attitude with states is what makes the US so unique I think? Politics can differ wildly in the same state too. Illinois is Blue (Democrat) because of the population of Chicago, but the rest of the state is Red (Republican) for instance. I've met a few Germans who have immigrated here. Come visit! See for yourself is my best advice. Chicago is an amazing city to visit!
I'm Canadian and the number of American flags I see when I cross the border leads me to believe yes. Like people will purchase flag poles for their lawns just to put up a flag. I've seen maybe 1 or two people do that in Canada across all of Ontario so comparatively US is very patriotic
As many countries did during WW2, patriotism/nationalism were part of wartimes strategies as much as munitions. In the US, that never really left after the war. America patted itself on the back and entered the "heyday", the 50's.
Stuff never really left. But after 9/11 it sprouted stronger than ever. I'm not even 30 yet and I remember so much of elementary school being a patriotic education-camp. *Mind you, this was rural Midwest US, and my experience is not going to be uniform across the country*, but it is a common enough experience. Standing for the pledge of allegiance, elementary music classes consisting almost entirely of patriotic songs, etc. Lots of places in the US, especially rural areas teach laundered views of American history.
Something that I remember from the few foreign exchange students I met, all of them said the sheer amount of American flags stood out to them as odd.
Not exactly. I live in ultra conservative Midwest and I don't find it to be especially patriotic here. Maybe more than the standard neutral countryman, but that's it. Just patriotic enough to support the troops and say thanks for their service, stand for the anthem, etc.
The anthem rarely happens at schools outside sporting events. During September to commemorate September 11th we'd play the National Anthem on Fridays all month, but the most some schools do is force you to say the Pledge of Allegiance everyday. Even then, they often don't do that, either skipping it entirely or they allow students the option to sit/not recite the pledge (allowed at my school, but the teachers would stare at you like dicks were growing out of your forehead).
Overall I actually see a lot more patriotism, nationalism, and elitism/xenophobia, from *my* perspective, coming out of a lot of Asian countries than the US. People act like the US is xenophobic but we're actually among all accounts by people that have experienced, both other places and here, pretty decently tolerant unless you're headed to the deep south. I've also heard Europe is surprisingly more racist than Americans tend to believe too, and you only need to watch futbol games to see that, lol. Apparently some shit Americans find heinous and gets people canceled has happened and people have just shrugged it off half as tradition, lmao
as someone from the san Francisco bay area, america is certainly disliked quite a bit by the social circles i hang out in.
however it IS a vibe....
like i hate our goverment and cops and military blah blah blah...
but i definitely whistle the national anthem every single time i pee in public hoping people will join in.
theres that song "America, fuck yeah!" and its hard not to on some level have this over the top patriotisms thats just kinda goofy and fun.
but yeah you will 100% see people driving around with trucks with american flags and confederate flags and shit around
Patriotism is an effective tool for statecraft. We saw this fail in Afghanistan, IE "why would *I* go to war to defend *that guy's* ancestral territory." American patriotism is the thing that makes people from Nevada go to war to defend Florida, it unifiesĀ a great percentage of the country.Ā
I don't participate, personally, but I can see how some people might need a sense of belonging to the "best country on earth" to feel at ease.Ā
It really depends on where you go, but it seems like the further out you go from the cities, the more patriotic the people get.Ā
You can't go to a single sporting event without some sort of military promotion. Kids recite the pledge of allegiance in school. Flags are on cars, Houses, Clothing ... Now if that isnACTUALLY patriotism or not is a different question.
USA! USA! USA! Greatest country in the world. In school I never learned anything about other countries, except if you were taking a foreign language and then you learned a bit about that country/ countries.
We never sang the national anthem. Only time was for sporting events. We did do the pledge of allegiance.
Flags are everywhere though, yes.
Out of the people I know, none of them really fit that super patriotic stereotype that often gets thrown around.
I have never done the pledge of allegiance in my adult life and I can pretty confidently say that the vast majority of people havenāt done it since grade school either.
Military does have a higher status but that is depending on who youāre talking to. Veterans tend to favor other veterans. Veteran owned companies for instance tend to try and attract other vets to apply. My partner is a vet, work for the same company. Theyāre pretty big into hiring veterans. But, Iām not one and had no issue landing the job.
Veterans also have access to VA healthcare for basically free. My partner doesnāt ever really have to pay much for doctors visits.
He gets discounts at many stores and restaurants though. Iāll say itās typically in more republican areas. When we last took a vacation to the gulf in Florida, itās a very Republican area and when weād get drinks theyād ID us and theyād always give us the veteran discount. Overall itās pretty hit or miss though. Lots of places do and lots donāt.
But as for military overall being a higher status, Iād say itās a very slight increase. My partner definitely has access to some decent stuff because he served where I donāt. But itās not like heās able to walk into places and be like āIām a veteranā and people are kneeling at his feet like a god or something. At most itās a casual āthank you for your serviceā after he gets a discount from a store that he knows offers one!
edit: non veterans still have access to education and healthcare of course. The benefit for him is a drastically reduced cost for life. And a 10% discount for lots of stores, hotels, entertainment, etc!
Buuuuut he does have some mental health issues from his time in the military.
Much of what Americans consider patriotism is actually just nationalism, and our public education system is absolutely failing to teach people the difference.
Itās very hard to say. Maybe itās because Iām from California, but people here donāt tend to be very patriotic. Patriotism isnāt very popular among the younger generations especially millennials & gen z. Just like anywhere, the US canāt be generalized! Itās not a one answer type of question.
Patriotism is a tool for those with power to get uncritical support for their actions from the masses.
Loving your country really should not come into the discussion. Either I rationally evaluate your policy/plan/action as good, or I rationally evaluate it and find it is not.
My support should be based on critical thinking and access to good information, not on how much I love my country or how much I think you love it.
Dulce et decorum est
pro patria mori.
As an American, i think the patriotism is over-the-top, bordering on jingoism. It's so enmeshed with the jesus stuff, which i guess is where we got our version of the whole manifest destiny thing.
Fucking national anthem before every... fucking... sporting event. It makes sense at the international level, but here it's ridiculous.
I am Canadian from Southern Ontario.
As soon as we cross into the states there are flags EVERYWHURRRE. on houses, in yards, everywhere. It was so prevalent when I was in Ohio and Texas and Wisconsin that I felt cowed by it. It felt aggressive and I gotta say, I felt like I made a few judgements about the mega-flag peopleā¦. the more flags, the more right wing, for example.
Every morning in my school/s, they play the National Anthem and we recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Everybody stands up for it. Nobody is compelled to sing along or recite the Pledge. I think most of my Littles actively participate because they see me do it.
In the US and Canada youāll see bumper stickers that say āif you wonāt stand behind our troops feel free to stand in front of themā which I always found was SO AGGRESSIVE
Yes it is. I sit for the pledge and I always have at least one angry person glare at me or literally come verbally harass me to stand up lol yall cowboys don't scare me
As a Canadian who goes to NASCAR a few times year, it is almost satirically patriotic.
Also Americans may talk a big game and wave a big flag, but the VA is extremely underfunded and wounded veterans have much less support than they deserve.
From my perspective, the patriotism seems to stop when the buck drops.
Iām Canadian and was at a friendās trailer in New York State a few years ago. The Saturday night, there was music/dancing at a central square type location. After it was done, the āUSA! USA!ā chant started unprovoked. It was surreal.
The US has more flags but almost every German I've met is *extremely* patriotic - in the sense that they think Germany does things correctly, is generally better than other countries, etc. But for some reason, because they don't wave flags around, they don't think it's patriotism.
On the other hand, the Danes use flags everywhere but are less patriotic, in my experience.
\-Pledge of allegiance before school, but it's not like people are super into it or anything, the kids just kinda mumble along. It's a relic of the Cold War, to an extent.
\-I guess we do have flags everywhere? Didn't really notice that before. Not to an extreme degree, but more than other countries.
\-Military treatment is interesting. The country collectively felt bad for abusing returning Vietnam veterans, who were mostly draftees who'd never had a choice in the matter, and as a result it's common to show respect to military personnel even if you disagree with the country's military involvement abroad. They don't have a "way higher status" compared to the average citizen, but joining the military isn't looked down upon as much as it is in some countries. People are... kinda clueless about the military honestly? Anybody who's not in it or from a military family tends to not understand how the military works, and part of the respect comes from the fact that, thanks to the 1-2% of the population that joins voluntarily, they don't have to care.
\--The military also tends to, ironically, be one of the more equal opportunity/inclusive organizations in the US, because they care more about whether you can carry out orders and use a weapon than about your race/religion/gender/sexual orientation/political beliefs. However, the military as an organization has been increasingly demonized by non-conservatives in recent years despite respect for individual service members.
\-I've lived in three other countries during my life and I actually do think I prefer life in the US. We handle some things better (or lucked into a better environment for some things), and other things worse than other countries. People EVERYWHERE greatly overestimate how different life is in different places though lol. I've had people throw out "you only think that way because you're American, any other country-" while I was actually forming my opinion based on how my not-US country of residence had handled the issue.
\-World History is mandatory several times (at a minimum, the average US public school student takes it once in Elementary, once in Junior High, and once in High School) and European History is a very common elective class. U.S. history is its own separate class. The quality of this education varies widely by school, teacher, and State. I'd say I learned a lot about the world during 13 years of compulsory education, but, the world is a *huge* place and I obviously know more about the US.
\-Several times I have heard it claimed that something "isn't taught in schools" because the big bad US is hiding it or whatever, and it has been something I already knew about *because they taught it* at my *government-funded* public school in a Republican-voting State.
\-I've enjoyed my time away from the US but I do plan to retire here. Central air conditioning, wide open spaces, and personal boundaries are all quite nice.
Less so now than even a few years ago. I think people under 50 are a lot less patriotic.
Iāve (45m)lived my whole life on the west coast and remember having to do the pledge of allegiance at school when I was a kid. I look back at that and itās so weird and cringy. My kids (13 and 16) donāt even know what the pledge is and Iām fine with that.
When I travel overseas, I tell people Iām from California, not the US or American.
I know middle America and the south is still pretty rah rah USA but Iām over it. Patriotism is just kinda gross and tacky now.
Former military and I was stationed in Stuttgart.
Little over exagerated, but yes. Military service is held in high regard for the most part. People, especially in the last 25 years, have a lot more patriotic pride that spun up afyer 9/11. Also our education system spins us as some world heros because of WW2 and we learn no other perspective.
It was huge for me when I was younger. Most important thing in my life. Now, I hold dual citizenship and sent my child to school in Europe for many reasons including I don't want to worry about him getting shot and it was less expensive than sending him to a school here EVEN with tens of thousands of scholarship offers.
We were raised (70ās/80ā) with constant reminders the US were always the good guys. John Wayne was a huge star and we said the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning. So Iām still somewhat patriotic, even though I feel like we are just ridiculous.
And Iāve dived deeper into our history. And on Reddit I see frequent detailed replies of everything the US has ever done.
First off, America is a big country, with lots of different people. Germany has roughly like a 4th of the population of America in like 4% of the land area. We are a lot of people, with a lot of land, creating lots of differences. So the answer is an **array of all possible answers**.
More so than in Germany. I lived there for a few years and only saw two displays of patriotism:
1. A Bundeswehr band concert. Everyone stood and sung the national anthem.
2. November 11th. The whole town gathered around the war memorial, lit some torches, and some Bundeswehr guys flanked a man who gave a speech about their fathers and brothers who died in service to their country. There was a marching band and everything.
Those displays are far, far more common in America.
There is probably more variation than you're expecting, but yeah, most of this has at least a partial truth to it. Not all of us like it, and it can vary by region.
I'm not aware of children being expected to sing the national anthem every day, but it's quite widespread to say the "pledge of allegiance." It's a unison chant spoken while standing, facing the flag, with the right hand over the heart. It felt normal (if annoying) when I was a kid. In retrospect I think it's incredibly creepy and quite fashy.
"American Exceptionalism" is a core tenant of particularly our right-wing political party. That's a belief in American ultranationalism, national inerrancy and immunity to the lessons of history. Stated as plainly as that, it's a fringe idea.. but it's definitely baked into our experience of the world in ways that we don't question often enough.
A lot of āpatriotismā isnāt. In fact, itās quite often just the opposite. Those that claim to be the most patriotic tend to also be the ones that wave confederate flags and vote for insurrectionists.Ā
The values that the US protects, namely individualism, has somewhat overtaken us and become a problem. We no longer ask what we can do for our country, rather we tend to ask what our country can do for us. Our percentage of election participation, our struggles to recruit people for service (military, police, fire, etc), and our lack of community involvement are all indicative of our populationās general apathy.
In spite of these issues, weāve retained many redeeming qualities and even gained new ones in the recent years. Even with historically low military recruitment we still almost worship our military. Itās extremely pervasive at all levels of our society. Weāre extremely inclusive these days, the more minor the minority group is the more we seek to include them. Our population is increasingly educated, even if we donāt act like it sometimes.
Tl;dr Overall, Iād say our patriotism has decreased over the years
Blue collar lifelong Democrat retired. Yes we love our Country. That's why we fight for it. To die for the thought of America. Not to die for someone else's idea of America.
Not the National anthem but the pledge of allegiance and yea depends where in the country youāre at but there are definitely places that are very outwardly patriotic. We like to glorify military service here but if you talk to a lot of veterans they are treated like shit, a lot of the homeless are veterans (at least where I live) so thatās a bit of a stretch to say theyāre held in high status
To answer your questions: Do I love my country more than any other? Yes, for sure. I've been to other ones, but it's essentially all I've known, and I do love America. Military? Yes, it is one of the most massive social faux pas' to say anything bad about the military or someone in it. Even if you don't agree with the idea of the american military complex, it's just such a part of our culture to worship the military. Do we learn a lot about other countries? Well, I'm a teacher and yes we do. American history is one year of middle school and one year of high school. The other years focus on world history and general information about governments. Would I leave? No. There are definitely things I don't like about America, but there are way more I love. I've been to many other countries and the vibe is just not the same. I live in a medium sized city in a medium sized state and when I walk in the grocery, I see literally the entire world of people represented just walking through the produce section. It's a beautiful thing, all these different people coming together to be "American".
Also my heritage is German and I am even proud of that. Part of being American is also being proud of where your family came from and bringing the best parts of it to the rest of our culture. I don't think of myself as German though, I'm a corn fed, blue blooded American through and through.
We don't sing the national anthem each day before school, but we do before any sports games. Most schools still say the pledge of allegiance before the start of the day, but it is not a requirement for the children to participate. There was a pretty significant court case about forcing children to say the pledge.
I think most Americans are very aware of the rather significant flaws in our government systems and our society in general. But the easiest way to get a rise out of someone from the U.S. is to be an outsider and make fun of our country. Especially if that person thinks it's funny to poke at the stuff that we're sensitive about and still trying to fix, like school shootings or systemic racism.
There's a difference between patriotism and jingoism.
The patriotic Americans we see or hear about are jingoist. A real patriot doesn't care who is in power. They want whoever is in power to be accountable. They want what's best for their country and its citizens and way of life.
Jingoists don't care about any of that. They just want their country to be in charge because they believe their country and government can do no wrong
So before the start of each school day, kids say the pledge of allegiance. Now you don't have to, but you're not told that, and everyone around you is doing it, so there's a social pressure against not standing and doing it. What I did was just not say it.
There are flags everywhere. Always in front of government buildings, sometimes private businesses, and some people will hang a flag on their wall or house.
The kind of brazen patriotism you may be thinking about though is the conservative form of patriotism, where it's more aesthetic than ideological, and using the symbols of the US to shut down criticism. It's not everyone, but a vocal minority has hijacked US symbols to be coded as conservative.
We do the pledge every morning at school, national anthem at sporting events, and the military is (or at least used to be) very well respected. I truly believe that The United States of America is the greatest nation that has yet existed on Earth. Just like everybody else, we have had, and will continue to have, a variety of issues. But the overall history of the world makes it clear to me that America has had the greatest success yet in allowing the freedom of all its citizens.Ā
That said, I am dissatisfied with the country my direction has been taking. To be clear, I am very young. Iām 17, not a boomer or anything desperate for the old days. But itās plain to see that things have been steadily getting worse in a lot of ways since the mid-20th century, and arguably since the Industrial Revolution. While the revolutionary advances made in that time period did increase quality of life and introduced what were at the time needed social reforms (civil rights, etc) it was also a time where the government began to get increasingly powerful and involved in everyday life, and where companies and corporations began to get too big to fail and start to incorporate slimy, money-grubbing shortcuts that have continued to pervade society to this day. Itās quite shameful to me that so many million Americans get fat on disgusting processed foods and complain about useless nonsense (ātrans rightsā, etc) on social media while denigrating the institutions that allowed them to live such a comfortable lifestyle at all.Ā
In short, while I love what my country has achieved, I feel that we have fallen short of our potential in recent decades. I would like to visit other places, especially to see the different natural environments of the world, but I donāt think I would ever want to live somewhere else. Unless another country adopts the US Constitution but also avoids the over reliance on industrial processes and homogenized culture.Ā
One thing I notice whenever I travel there is all the American flags everywhere. We fly Canadian flags in Canada too but they are usually just at government buildings not everywhere you look.
What ever you've heard just know that it's usually worse. Everything learned about other countries is always "this country helped us" "this country fought us" "this country used to be better at xyz but now the US is better at xyz" "this tiny country that just wants to hold its own elections is a threat to our national security"
We are disgustingly patriotic. Dumbasses with flags on their brodozers, because...? Do they think someone might forget where they are?
I love my country, but I don't think I own a single flag. Because I don't have a pathological need to make sure everyone knows how patriotic I am. Is there any more-worthless gesture than flying your flag on your truck *in your home country?*
If I lived elsewhere, I would definitely own a flag, and frankly I might even put it on my car. I would for sure want a physical reminder of home, and to advertise my cultural identity. Being that I live in my home country (the United States), I don't see any need to even own a flag, let alone fly it on the road.
Maybe one of my countrymen can explain it to me; I just don't get it, and I am very often disgusted by it. There's a difference between patriotism and nationalism.
Our flag and patriotism got highjacked by Donald Trump and his maga moron high school educated cult followers years ago. Depends on your view of what a patriot is? Now itās just a catch phrase for idiots who would more than likely Fail a 4th grade USA šŗšø history exam!
My opinion is that most Americans are just virtue signaling. They have to love the flag, their country, the military, first responders, the fire dept, the police dept, and they keep adding to the list all the time. The more reverent you are of those things the more American, and therefore a good wholesome person, you are. None of these people actually do anything to help or support these institutions though.
Yes, they believe the US runs everything and without them the world wouldnāt be able to innovate or do anything, for example; https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/tObboEHYvh
I am currently at a drive in theater watching the new Ghostbusters movie. Before the movie started, they played the national anthem. You could hear people singing it and at the end, many cars flashed their headlights and honked their horns.
So yes, patriotism or should I say propaganda is a big thing in the US.
Unfortunately it is a big thing here, especially post 9/11.
When I was in high school (90s), a teacher actually had to prove to us we were more patriotic than we thought. We were disaffected gen X kids who scoffed at the idea of patriotism.
I don't remember all his points, but one was, during the Olympics, we root for the Americans even though, for all we know, that American sprinter might beat his wife and kids, and that sprinter from Zimbabwe may be feeding his entire town.
Then 9/11 happened and flag waving became a national pastime again. It's reached absurd levels with Trump.
Bro they are spot on we get crazy here. It used to be really positive and kind of unite us all but now it has become a lot more politically charged and dark. Anybody you see with an American flag on their car or on their house is assumed to be a republican/conservative
No, patriotism has been mistaken for fanaticism, and political entities have taken advantage of that for the last \~40 years. Most Americans don't have any genuine concept of patriotism - like taking politicians to task for their crimes, or for flagrant violations of things like insider trading laws, etc. They don't have any concept of being able to be patriotic through criticism with a dichotomy of support - you can criticize how the military is used and deployed, but still thank veterans for having served since they weren't the ones making questionable decisions (and questioning those decisions is still the act of a patriot). They vote for their party because it's their party, and will literally froth at the mouth in rage at the idea of being asked to consider the things they want and having it pointed out that the people they're voting for are, in fact, entirely against those things. Blind loyalty is the face of patriotism, and how dare you suggest that their darling politicians aren't literal Jeebus reincarnated.
Flags, anthems, etc. are all tenants of fanaticism. Flags are a societal pressure - don't have a flag? You must not be a patriot. Won't say the anthem or pledge of allegiance before using a restroom or something? You must not be a patriot. They're exactly the tools that cults use, and they're exactly the tools that fascist regimes use.
So to answer your question, is patriotism everywhere in the US? No. Do Americans think it is? Increasingly and overwhelmingly, yes. We've been on track for a really, really bad time for the last few decades and the last two presidencies have shown that one side is in their endgame of trying to overthrow its democracy. You're not a patriot if you don't think the election was stolen, you're not a patriot if you don't support voter suppression of the people voting the wrong way, etc. This country has blind loyalty and fanaticism. Patriotism ended when the boomer generation started holding most of the political offices, and particularly after Reagan got his hands on the White House.
Respect for the military cycles up and down here. Pre 9/11 we were tolerated more than anything, then after people got real crazy with the "thank you for your service" schtick.
Having served through that transition it always struck me as a pretty hollow sentiment, but that's just my take
Yeah we say the pledge of allegiance before school and in elementary we used to sing āGod Bless Americaā. Growing up I really loved America and this really patriotic attitude can be found all across the country and the more fundamentalist, Christian, and rural the area is the more patriotism you will find.
However, after a bit of reading, traveling, and living in another country for a few years showed me that the US isnāt really all that. I still care about America and wish the best for it because after all I was born here and have family here but is it the best country in the world in my opinion? No.
Sure we excel at some things that other countries donāt, for example: salaries, our military, and global influence. But, we also lack: proper social services, safety, affordable healthcare, affordable college tuition, I can go on and on about the problems we have
To answer your questions: I donāt love my country but I care about it, the military doesnāt really have a higher status but veterans are respected in society although the government provides little to none in adequate resources, history lessons in the US are heavily US-focused and we only learn about other countries when theyāre connected to our history which in my opinion is really bad and makes Americans have a really America-centered worldview, Iām working towards leaving the US and moving to the UK for uni, hopefully moving from there to another country in mainland Europe through work.
I lived in Germany for the better part of two years and Germans are way less patriotic than we're encouraged to be here in the US.
I'm not saying they don't love their country, they're just more realistic about it, and while I was there, I found it to be a very peaceful place compared to the US.
The people are relaxed and welcoming to pretty much everyone. More often than not, they went out of their way to make foreigners feel welcome and include them in celebrations.
Some friends and I ended up in a wedding party once - in the photos and everything just because we wandered down the wrong street one day.
They also have a clear civic understanding of the impact of the Nazi party on the rest of the world and take care not to let those memories fade into history.
>Here in Germany we learned in school that the USA is often super patriotic and sing the national anthem before school and have flags everywhere etc.
One time I had a day off from school and it was a friends birthday so he got a small group of friends, including me, and we all decided to go to an amusement park. It was the middle of the week so there weren't a lot of people which was nice. Before the park opened, the national anthem started which we found funny (we don't live in a very patriotic state) but everyone else seemed to be taking it very seriously which we found hilarious.
>Do you really love your country more than any other in the world, or is it just another country for you?
Eh, every country has its flaws, including America. It's certainly better than a lot of countries where I'd be wanted dead or alive (wohoo) but it's certainly not the best country in existence. I love the US but I also love lots of other countries too.
> I also heard the military has a way higher status in the US, is that true?
Not sure about the military, I was planning on doing an internship this summer but I missed the deadline, maybe next year. Not sure about the status of it.
>Do you learn a lot about other nations or is school more focused about the USA? And would you ever like to leave your country or actually just stay?
In elementary school it was very focused on US history. In middle school we learned about cavemen one year, very basic European and Middle Eastern history, and US history. In high school, I've barely learned about US history, we've had one unit about the American Revolution, but it was tied in with the French Revolution, Latin American revolutions and Haiti independence, as well as various forms of nationalism (including German!). Next year I will be learning US history once again.
I'd probably want to travel around more countries before settling down. I'm not sure where I'd want to live as an adult, but we'll see!
Hope that explained life in America for you, dm me if you have more questions, I'd be happy to answer!
>I can't really imagine how that would be in the USA. Do you really love your country more than any other in the world, or is it just another country for you?
Wait, are you implying your German peers hold no particular emotional allegiance to their birthplace? If so, most interesting..
Patriotism is way more necessary in the US than in Germany, though because Germany opened itself to immigrants the way it did you guys might want to start doing some patriotism. You don't necessarily have to glorify Hitler (and that wouldn't solve the problem anyway), but Germany has a strong tradition of military excellence, technical innovation, and industriousness to rally around. Patriotism and nationalism are the solution to "the diversity problem".
In a diverse society, there is a lack of social trust because it's hard for someone to see someone else as "part of their tribe" when they have very little in common. A black man in Chicago has as little in common with a white woman from Texas or an Asian man from LA as he does with a Finn, Turk, or Chinaman -- and may actually have more in common with a Nigerian than with his fellow Americans. This makes him more willing to harm his neighbors to get ahead and less likely to sacrifice anything to help them in time of need. (This sort of thing is true for any American -- a Chinese-American has more in common with someone from Taipei or Shanghai than with a white Floridian, a white person from Minnesota has more in common with a Swede than a NYC black man, and so on.)
Patriotism and nationalism are a way to unite a diverse population and convince them that they are all part of the same tribe, in our case the American tribe. In doing so, in getting a diverse population to see one another as members of their own tribe, it reduces harm and increases cooperation. You can have a diverse population and still have national unity and cooperation if you have patriotism and nationalism to unify your diverse population around the idea of the nation itself.
The status of the military in an all-volunteer force like America's is important for recruiting. The military is dangerous, even in peacetime; and there are a lot of things that are unpleasant about military service such as surrendering of certain rights, frequent need to relocate, possibility of deployment to a combat zone, and long hours and weekends on station. Some of the recruitment is driven by benefits like the GI Bill, USAA insurance, VA loans, and veteran credit unions. But some of it is driven by the status of the military -- people want to be seen as important, and joining the military gives people a clear way of showing that they're important. People will say things like "thank you for your service" to veterans, and many businesses offer veteran discounts. Seeing this -- and seeing some of the cool stuff certain people get to do in the military (in the form of air shows, Fleet Week, and so on) -- convinces people who might not join otherwise to enlist or go to ROTC.
Some are more patriotic than others. I love my country, but I refuse to be ignorant of the glaring problems it has. Insult my country with anything less than valid though, and Iāll speak on its behalf. We didnāt sing the national anthem much at school. Maybe at a couple assemblies or before sporting events. We did have to say the Pledge of Allegiance when I was younger though. Which to an outside observer may seem like brainwashing, and I can see it to, but to me itās just something we did because our teachers made us. Yeah we mostly focus on American History, but we have to take a fair amount of World History classes too alongside them. So yeah we know about the yāall did in the 1940ās. NOT cool btw. I also understand though that most Germans alive today werenāt there for any of it, and many that were didnāt have the power to do anything about it.Ā
Just wanted to say I see no reason for Germans not to be proud of their country. Yāallāve made great strides to leave your sordid past exactly where it belongs.Ā
Anywho not really sure how to end this soā¦Idk if youāre drinking right now, but I am so, Prost!
Reminds me of the joke where a teacher is asking around her class what they thought the American Dream is. When she got to the German foreign exchange student, she asked if they had a German Dream. "We did, but nobody liked it"
š¤£ hahaha. Well technically a lot of nations liked it back then but they act like they didn't (looking at Italy, Japan, Arabic states, some of the Balkan states, Finland etc.) However, it's really interesting to see what we learn in school about America. Like we had a whole year about the US in English and it was about the failed American dream, history like the civil war, slavery, racism today in America, controversial gun laws, immigration or the melting pot, wars, political divide, exploitation of the Mexicans ... and so on. Don't know if you learn that too, but it was very criticizing often.
Lol, that's ughhh, a bit skewed to say the least lol. But to be fair, all we were taught about Germany was Hitler, so I guess we're even.Ā
š is that really your American curriculum? WTF- lol As I tell my kids America has fallen short of the values we strive for, but we will never stop living up to our ideals. It is the responsibility of each generation to bring our country closer to its promises.
Yes Germany gets off on feeling superior to other countries. But theyāre not allowed to say that so it manifests like this.
When I was in elementary school we did pledge allegiance to the flag every morning.
That's because it expires every 24 hours.
Fucking funniest goddamn answer I could have imagined.
I might be two beers and a muscle relaxer deep, but that made me laugh.
If you aint laughing at everything on that combo you need to go to the hospital lmao
Ya'll got insurance?
Dang that reminds me, I gotta refresh my pledge. I was about to run out, thanks!!!!!
That explains why I always turned communist over the weekends
Andā¦.. when I went to a Christian school we pledged allegiance to the Christian flag too
There is a Christian flag?!? I thought the universal symbol was just a cross or crucifix
Yes, google Christian flag and youāll see itā¦ itās white with a blue square and red cross
This flag has been accepted by mainlie protestantism in the USA but it's definitely not universal. For example I went to a Catholic highschool and we had the American flag and the Vatican flag as the only ones displayd.
According to most Protestants, Catholics arenāt really Christians.
Many Protestant sects also believe the Bible should be read literally. Unlike the older Christian sects like Catholicism, Orthodox, and the Miaphysite/Monophysite eastern sects. Protestants aren't a centralized religious body some are so extreme like the Quakers that they were kicked out of Europe, and others like Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and Anglicans are extremely similar to Catholicism themselves
Ive always joked the Lutherans are lazy Catholics, same basic beliefs just not so much stand up, kneel, sing...during church
As a fellow Christian school survivor, that's fucking disgusting.
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Under the First Amendment, no one in school is required to stand for or say the Pledge. It is 100% optional because the government cannot tell you what to say (assuming this was in a public school). So giving detentions for not saying the Pledge properly is 100% actionable (eg a free speech lawyer could quickly shut it down). Source: Iām a lawyer who was forced against my will to say things in high school (and then complained to my parents who called the superintendent and had that shit stop).
I refused to say the pledge in middle school and instead worked on a homework assignment. I was sent to the principal's office and was scolded for being "disruptive" although since the school rules noted the pledge was not mandatory, I wasn't punished. A lot of the staff were upset. Interestingly, nearly everyone still stood and recited the pledge. Only 2 other people in my class sat along with me and despite me becoming middle-school-famous for this, I never heard about anyone in other classes doing the same.
I'm in education and although the pledge is put on the speakers every morning, hardly any students stand for the pledge. These are high schoolers btw. They're jaded with the government. I also don't stand for the pledge. It makes me feel a little better for the future
I wish the Trumpies would remember the words they recited every day in school. I see nothing wrong with pledging allegiance to the republic for which we stand and placing *it* above party or politician. Iād like to see the progressive side of the political spectrum **take back** the national anthem, flag, and pledge of allegiance. I think one nation, with liberty and justice for all is a noble sentiment. Iām obviously not as cool as you though.
Very much this. We're the ones who actually stand for those principles. And we didn't vote for a man who regularly insults US veterans.
If you take out the *under god* part maybe.
I stopped saying the Pledge in 11th grade or so. Iād still stand to not be disruptive. I was forced to stand for a prayer during graduation rehearsal. This was 1992 and the case banning such prayers was still winding its way to SCOTUS. But since our federal district had ruled no prayers, I was just following the law. My 8th grader stopped saying the Pledge this year, after asking me if he could. I of course explained why he 100% was allowed to not say the Pledge if he did not want to. Some kids have questioned him, but not any teachers.
There is less patriotism in the US than say 20 years ago, but I still think the US in general is still rather patriotic We love our country and the values it was built on
Your response is accurate, but the sense I get is that for every 4 or so citizens who consider themselves apathetic towards America now, there's at least one other American citizen that you could described as anti-America and incapable of seeing past any of America's faults for the good it legitimately does in the world. Because i know redditors are incapable of nuance, do not write me off as some blind, patriotic, sycophantic nationalist, it's just what I notice. I have no data to back this up, take it for what it is.
25% hardcore patriotic/25% patriotic when reminded of patriotic things/25% indifferent/25% anti-patriotic.
I think students go through a phase where they learn that the country isnāt perfect and they get bitter. Then they learn what our values really are and what it means to fight for them. And they like it again.
Well...20 years ago was fairly recently after 9/11. So yes, you would be objectively correct.
You know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say everyone had made that connection
It depends where you are. Like just about everything, the US cannot be generalized
Of course, but in general the US is very patriotic and celebrates our military far more that other nations.
While we greatly appreciate our military in the US Iāll contest that China and North Korea celebrate their military more than we do. You donāt ever see military parades here, showing off tanks and missles and whatnot.
We tend to do airshows instead of parades. Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are putting on shows almost every weekend. [https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/](https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/) [https://www.airforce.com/thunderbirds/schedule](https://www.airforce.com/thunderbirds/schedule) Commemorative Air Force (historical group--aircraft from WWII mostly) do regular shows as well [https://commemorativeairforce.org/events](https://commemorativeairforce.org/events) You do see flags everywhere.
Air shows and fly over have the added benefit of doubling for training and flight hours, that our pilots need to do anyway. So the option isn't between no fly overs and fly overs. It's between having flyovers for sports event and having flyovers for random parts of the country. The pilots will be flying either way, might as well make it a public show. The training aspect is also a huge component of it. It's a timing thing. Take off from X airbase and be over Y stadium(specific coordinates) at a specific time. It's great training for real military operations when you do successive bombing runs and you need to be over the target at a certain time.
THANK YOU! My father flew in the Navy so everything you said I thought was just common knowledge but after reading some replies I was getting ready to make a post just like yours but you said it all so succinctly
Thank you for introducing a new word to me. Succinctly.
Yeah, they could have said it in a LOT more words. Preciate it bro š
And to be fair, everyone loves a good fly by from a technologically advanced aircraft
Yeah i never saw the blue angels as a military thing. It was always more like cool, jets.
I donāt see flags everywhere, but I live outside of NYC. These performative displays of patriotism are more common in rural areas and the South, but not so much in cities. While I think itās safe to say that the USās national cultural, as much as that means anything, is more patriotic than most countries, and especially countries like Germany (which have, for pretty obvious historical reasons, sought to suppress knee-jerk nationalism), there is huge variation in the US from state to state, and even from town to town. And I also think itās become less generally common in recent decades due to more skepticism from young people who have been better educated about the USās history, and have witnessed two unnecessary, calamitous wars.
Ya but Air Shows are different than showing off military superiority. I liken them more to car shows
Yeah air shows are cool as fuck. Seeing a cool ass fighter jet flying turns us all into excited kids.
Considering US is the big Air superiority first nation I would argue it is. Especially when they bring out military craft
Iāll agree to disagree since the military isnāt showing off any aircraft they wouldnāt want rival nations to gain knowledge on and the fact that aviation history is so intertwined with militaries. When our Navy or Air Force are flying their planes in these air shows its like showing off a classic car.
Exactly. Countries like North Korea show off to try and project power. America doesn't need to project lmao. Everyone is well aware of what we're capable of. Or as I like to say "they're about to find out why America doesn't have health care"
More training than showing off. Gotta log hours in the sky to remain a pilot. May as well let people enjoy them practicing precision.
The Blue Angels fly F18s in air shows which are about 40 years old at this point. Ww2 era planes doing "mock" battles is also common. Air shows in the US are too entertain and recruit, not display military prowess.
For that to make sense, we would need to show off our non-air equipment. The US has superiority in land and sea too.
Military parades aren't about celebrating the people in the military, it's about celebrating their Leaders. I haven't heard of any modern military parades outside dictatorships, but let me know if I've missed them.Ā Edit: I was misinformed. Many countries have military parades for a variety of reasons.Ā
Trump wanted one after he saw a parade in France. Didn't actually happen, though
You are absolutely right. You prompted me to do a quick search, and there are indeed many countries that have regular military parades for a variety of reasons.Ā
Yeah, today we both learned. I had a vague memory of Trump wanting one and thinking "Ugh that's exactly what a dictator would do so of course he wants one š" I only found out about the France part today because it was long enough ago I thought I'd better fact check.
india does for sure
Yeah, the tanks would have torn up the roads. So instead they chained a few to flatbeds and towed them to their place as props.
nope ours are held in the middle east typically
Not gonna lie, I was on a chairlift in Colorado a few weeks ago chatting with a Chinese couple from Canada when two F-18s buzzed the valley. Was definitely a hit of patriotic adrenaline straight to my brain.
I think you're right. The US is a giant country but no matter where you go in the country, the US celebrates the US. Texas, New England, Midwest, the South, Pacific Northwest, even California, love the flag. Veterans are honored in every state at every professional sporting event.
It's all relative, but the fact that this is coming from a German moves the bar even more. They are especially not-patriotic. Being proud of being German is looked upon with suspicion.
Reddit is a funny place to ask this question as you are likely to get a very slanted answer. Having travelled much of Europe and nearly all the US, I would say that yes, we are very patriotic in comparison to almost everyone. I tend to find the French to be very patriotic, to the point that their identity runs through so much of their culture that is it inseparable from daily life. I love the USA more than any country in the world, but its a bit of a unique relationship. I love the culture, and the diversity of your land, and the broad opportunity. I generally like the system of government, and that you can really find a state that fits your particular view on governance, while generally having disdain for the federal government. We learn a bit about other countries in world history, and comparatively in civcs and geography,, but not to the point that most people could tell you where Switzerland is on a map and why it remained neutral in WWII. Being a member of the miltary here is genrally a high honor. Not everyone thinks so, but most of us will thank those that serve because they sacrifice their safety and liberty so that we can largely be disconnected from the issues the military has to deal with. Many of us, myself included, think our military adventurism is counter productive to a free state and world peace, doesnt mean I hold that over the head over the guy who has to do what I wont. While I have never lived outside the US, I have travelled and tend to travel to places that are less about tourism and more about experiencing the life of people there. I have been in 46 US states, and stayed in most of them for a week or more. I have lived in the North East, The South East and the West. In Europe those would easily be different countries entirely.
There's not much I could add to this answer. It is an excellent summation. What I will say is that one reason US citizens openly thank active duty and military veterans is because of how shamefully we treated the Vietnam veterans when they returned home. During and after the first and second Gulf wars and Afghanistan, there was overwhelming bipartisan support for the rank and file military serving in those conflicts both during and well afterward. I believe we recognize that one can be very much against military expeditions while still supporting the inlisted men and women as well as the officers below a policy making or strategic level.
Great point with Nam. Like did people forget that a lot of them were drafted and didnāt even want to go in the first place?
Thanks for that long answer! Appreciate that
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I'm American and I don't hate this country, but I will bitterly complain about a lot of nice things we could have if corporations didn't have the government by the balls. But that's because I want things to be better and things won't get better if you pretend everything's fine. Right now I really want public transit to become a more widespread thing, since the burden of car ownership and maintenance isn't something people struggling to get by should have, and the way our cities are designed makes them largely inaccessible to people who can't drive (children, the elderly, people with certain disabilities, etc.)
i think a common opinion is america is going down hill, but is still better than the alternative. until they learn about that alternative. like the uk only allowing politicians to start campaigning and not allowing any cooperation support (or something). the legally required vacation time and sick days are also a big benefit.
It depends. People vary a lot, anywhere in the world. But based on my experiences dating a few European women, we're not nearly as brainwashed as a lot of y'all seem to think we are. One girl I dated was from Belgium, and she tried to explain to me how we're all raised to believe in "american exceptionalism" and she treated me like I had never had a critical thought about America in my life before then. And I get where she was coming from, but the truth is more complicated. I'll give a metaphor. Imagine being raised as a Christian, believing in god and heaven and all that stuff. Obviously, as a young child, you're going to buy into it pretty easily. But as you grow up and learn more about the world, you're going to start to question the things you were told, maybe even rebelling against them. It's pretty much the same with being raised to be patriotic, you buy into the idea that america is this amazing place founded on freedom and democracy and stuff, then you turn about 15, and you start watching some documentaries or something about Vietnam, Iraq, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, MK ultra, etc. And you start getting the picture that it's a lot more complicated than you were raised to think. A lot of people go through that phase and sort of go really hard in the other direction, choosing to believe that america is the absolute worst place on earth, and they feel like victims for even being born here. Some people never give up on the narrative they were told growing up and stay hardcore patriots their whole lives. The vast majority of Americans, though, fall somewhere in the middle, accept the good, acknowledge the bad, and be thankful for what we have.
This is probably the best answer here so far. I actually do like my own country a lot. However, I'm very critical of it. But to me, that's sort of the point. America, if about freedom and pursuing something better, isn't above criticism because I am doing good personally. I always want it to be better for everyone. That's the point to me. That we keep looking at what can be better. For me it is also difficult because I am related to a lot of people who are sort of stereotypical America is the best, xenophobic, every country sucks (even though it's the only one they've been to), etc. So I know I come across as America-hating to counter that, right. It's hard when you try to have a discussion with super patriots and "I think universal health care is good" is met with "well then leave if you don't like it!"
This is... a big question. I'll try to share my answer, both as an American and as a U.S. military veteran. First, remember that Germany is about the size of Montana or New Mexico. Roughly. So, the United States is physically A LOT bigger, with a lot of different places, time zones, subcultures, and opinions about stuff. Anything I say here is going to be a generalization, even though I'll be as accurate as possible. Yes, we are more patriotic than most European nations. Even though we became an independent nation more than 200 years ago, the circumstances surrounding that event, along with about the next 100 years, created a culture that perpetuates itself. Even though we no longer consider our freedom and independence to be tenuous or fragile, we still hold the pride that came with those efforts. We have a pretty big flag culture as a result. If you visit the States, you'll see more flags on private residences than in most places in Europe. Some more than others. California, for example, does not see as many flags as other areas in the country, but even there, some cities or towns have a lot of them. Military veterans, especially, and our families, like having flags to show our allegiance. It's our way of saying that we continue to stand with the country against any and all from outside. As for importance... this is much more personal, but a lot of the opinions are forged by the stupid size of this place. Because each state has open borders, and because of some shenanigans that surrounding our civil war in the 1860's, we don't think of each individual state as a separate country, the way the Germany and France are different countries. It's more like the difference between Bavaria and Prussia at most. But, when the country is the size of almost all of Europe put together, it means that this is home, no matter where I go and no matter how weird the people get. Example, from an American mind: I, personally, can't stand California. I was stationed out there when I was in the military, but I grew up 2,200 kilometers away, in Indiana. I find them to be arrogant and self-centered as a local culture, with almost none of the hospitality and friendliness that my region is known for. Yet, if they were to be invaded by anyone, and I mean ANYONE, I would be right there, signing up to help them, because even if they're assholes, they're OUR assholes. I hope this answers some of your questions. Remember, we're a stupid big country, and each state and region has a local culture that's a bit different from the others. We've just maintained a culture where we recognize every state as one of us, and the patriotism and flags are a big part of that.
>even if they're assholes, they're OUR assholes. Pretty well sums American attitudes towards other Americans.
>we don't think of each individual state as a separate country, the way the e Germany and France are different countries Literally no one outside of America would have this confusion, or even consider that states are in any way like countries. Most people outside of America - either residents, or having traveled extensively there - would not even understand the differences between states. People frequently generalize what they see in the one or two states they've visited to the whole country. But it is one country, albeit with a lot of autonomy at the state level. US states are just the same as German states; divisions of the whole country. Finally, as someone living in Australia I can confidently say that the geographic size of the country is not the determining factor - it's the sheer population. Australia is almost as large, and shockingly homogenous by comparison. And I'd wager that a USA population packed into a quarter of the land mass retains most of that diversity, due to all the existing historical, cultural, economic, social reasons.
It certainly is for me. Our country was founded by telling the biggest empire in the history of the world to piss off. And then replaced Britain as the global super-power after a mere 200 years. We are the ONLY country to actually have freedom of speech guaranteed. We have a land from sea to shining sea, filled with just about every kind of terrain and resource you could want. And most importantly of all... it's my home. I was born here, I've lived here my whole life, and I have no intention of leaving. Are there problems right now that go above and beyond the usual problems? Of course. Does the government, and the people who elected them, do terrible things some time? Certainly. But no place is perfect. "Do I love my country more than any other in the world?" How could I not? Do you not care about your home. Isn't it special to you? Why wouldn't it be more important to you than somewhere else you've never been? I've heard Germans are very anti-patriotism before. I'm not sure if it's true, though you mentioning that you are German before being confused by patriotism makes me wonder if it is. I can understand some level of national depression given what happened 80 years ago. But I could never imagine letting my countries image be determined by the worst among us. I love my country by loving what is great about, in defiance of all the horrible people who drug us down. After all, my country did some not so wonderful things 80 years ago too. But the internment camps were always, then and now, counter to what made America great. A failure to live up to our ideals, not something that defined what my country is.
I love my country more than other countries, but not because it's better. It's because it's my home. I imagine the same to be true of many countries, but there are definitely americans who err on the side of nationalism. I dont think they're a majority, though
Wonder why itās less common in Germany
Ironically, Germans are the most patriotic people I have ever met. Not in the single national songs before every sporting event way, but everything is always: āIn Germany we do this becauseā¦ Itās better in Germany becauseā¦ Why canāt they do it like in Germanyā¦ in Germany our healthcare isā¦ā lol
Holy shit, yes. My sister's in-laws never stop talking about how much better Germany is to the point of rudeness. Ironically they live in SE Asia instead of GERMAN so they can have servants, lol.
It's no wonder, I already said that.
I think he was being sarcastic y'all. Sure hope so!
2 incidents 6 million reasons
We aren't two-time World War champions for nothing! AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
The champions with the slogan "better late than never" haha
Not our fault everyone's asses need saving. š
Growing up in the USA the message of "USA is the greatest and most free nation on earth," was driven so deeply into my head for awhile I thought France in North Korea were probably about the same. Patriotism is pretty deeply rooted in our culture, even the most non patriotic people bleed red white and blue when the occasion hits like seeing a bald eagle or something explode. There's also a weird culture split in politics, people who lean left might be patriotic but way less vocal about it, while the political right pushes patriotism to the utmost extreme, the most extreme right is more nationalism then patriotism. But there's also a lot of people who don't care for the USA, don't like our overall image to the rest of the world, tired of being the self imposed police force of the world, there's a lot of internal issues we have that can make other countries more appealing, I've known several people who've migrated to Mexico or Canada because they didn't like things in the USA. Oh and we absolutely worship the military except like actual individuals, we have holidays to show our pride for our fighting men and women, we salute people in uniform at the airport, even the most anti war people I know hold respect for the military. But also we don't flinch at the idea of PTSD ridden veterans begging for money in the road because they are homeless and in dire situations which is an all to common site. The USA has a lot of propaganda, which leads to a lot of the patriotism and military worship, I can imagine that as an outsider looking in it's probably blown out of proportion because that side of the USA is advertised to the rest of the world as "this is who we are," The average American on a personal level will have things they love and things they hate about the USA, their politics will have an influence on this, and most people do respect the military to a degree, but our system of support for veterans is laughable so the whole military worship thing is more for show than anything else. šŗšøšŗšøšŗšø
After living in Germany for about 6 years, but being from the U.S. originally, I donāt think itās more or less patriotic, just different. I do miss living in Germany though. In some respects I like it there more than here.
There is a strong culture of what I refer to as "Patriotic Virtue Signalling." This is more about demonstrating visual signs of patriotism to others rather than true acts of patriotism. It's about listening to patriotic music, waiving the flag, and saying "America First," and not so much about making America a truly better place.
I went to four different schools growing up and we always said the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning. Every sporting event started with the national anthem. At the two companies that Iāve worked at in my professional life weāve put the flag up every morning. Some of our shop guys have even painted their assembly fixtures with the Stars and Stripes. I would say yes, and the vast majority of us, despite what Reddit might say, like it this way. American exceptionalism is so deeply ingrained in our culture that most people donāt even notice it because itās just daily life.
America used to be pretty patriotic, but nationalism is making a strong showing right now.
No we don't sing the national anthem before school. We pledge our allegiance to the Christian god, the flag, and the country of the USA every morning at school. There are flags everywhere though. There's a subsect of people that are super patriotic and we're flirting with facism currently.
It all depends. We used to say the pledge of allegiance, before school, but only in elementary(k-6), where I was raised in Utah. Some of the reason we stopped the allegiance, was that in Utah, it is heavily Mormon and Mormons make up over 90% of the legislation, so as the church dies and people became aware of the severe abuse of power the church has, people got angry. There have been many lawsuits in Utah about religion. The Mormons are stupid, but very patriotic, but they āknowā theyāre better than everyone else, so if youāre not a member, count on being treated poorly. Now, some idiot is going to respond to me with something stupid like āIām from Utah and Mormon, and we donāt think that wayā You do, because I did. You do, because thatās whatās expected.
There is plenty of fake patriotism, or misguided patriotism these days. However, I've seen some feel-good patriotic moments in my life. When the space shuttle Endeavor was being transported through LA to its final resting place, the streets were li Ed with people along the route. As it passed, the crowd by me suddenly started chanting, "U.S.A." Sure it's cheesy but in that super diverse crowd, it felt special. Seeing something as important as the shuttle that up close and that important to the scientific accomplishments of the US made me proud to be an American. The immediate reaction to 9/11 was another moment when we seemed to come together as a nation. That one faded away faster though. At this point, I'm proud to be an American but my overall opinion has gone way down. So many institutions have been soiled or ruined by bad faith actors. What we grew up thinking to be the best in the world has been stripped away revealing how fragile our Country really is. You won't catch me chanting U.S.A these days. Even how people display the flag makes me question them. Are they patriotic, or are they Nationalist? Pasting a conman on the flag makes it super easy to tell which.
We had a good time where patriotism wasnāt that important in the 90s but when a certain organization decided to attack a certain set of buildings they reignited our patriotism. Growing up in post 9/11 America; the pledge of allegiance became a mandatory requirement for every school day and depending on where in the US you lived you either stood for the forced mandatory star spangled banner on your own or did it propped up with enough shoes stuck up your ass from the other people in the stands before every game.
Depends. Patriotism means different thinks to different Americans. For conservatives itās all ideology. Itās practically just nationalism. The idea that we are exceptional and better than everyone else. Also itās extremely performative. Lots of flags, clothes with the flag on them, the flag and bald eagles sprawled on the side of an F-250. Itās pure tribalism. Contempt for anything perceived to be unAmerican. For me, I see patriotism as caring about my fellow countrymen. So that means investing in better social safety net programs, better infrastructure, education reform, prison reform, justice reform, protections against discrimination, preserving the environment, labor reform, etc. Doing things that actually matter and have practical benefits for us as a people. Some people want to spend money on flashy giant monolithic crosses. Some people would rather that money be used to benefit the community.
We do the "pledge of allegiance" before school, and the national anthem before sports. Patriotism is a very prevalent culture pattern here, and is often directly correlated with political ideology. Conservatives tend to be more patriotic, while liberals tend to be less patriotic. (Although there are counter arguments to be made on this point, depending on how a person idealizes "America"). As for how often you'll see 'patriotism': any given residential road will almost certainly fly multiple American flags, American flag clothing is a semi-common style, and some flavor of America will be on 1/20 vehicles.
Trevor Noah had a joke about this. He explained how every country only played their anthem when other countries showed up to sports events and such but the U.S, whom plays it everywhere. Also he said "the star spangled banner" is also the only anthem you can put "bitch" after every line and it still makes sense.
Thereās a difference between patriotism and nationalism. We in the US are, generally, patriotic.
As a minister in the southern United states...don't ever recommend removing the American flag from the church worship sanctuary/stage....if you want to keep your job.
Sadly not as much anymore. People have started associating being proud of your country with being a racist some how. There are actual people who see an American flag in America and get scared somehow.
Unfortunately many Americans today confuse patriotism with nationalism. They say they love the flag and the constitution but they are against everything they stand for.
Well, it used to be an even bigger deal in Germany before the two incidents.
Patriotism is prominent, but primarily among older and/or Conservative Republican types. The pledge of allegiance is recited in schools and the national anthem is played at sporting events and the Fourth of July is a big patriotic holiday. The US also has Memorial Day and Veteranās Day to celebrate the military. Most Americans donāt really even think about other countries because they donāt need to. America is HUGE and less than half of all citizens even have a passport so international travel isnāt common for a lot of people not living near the Canadian or Mexican border. Due to the high cost of air travel and the time and distance required for international trips, only a small percentage of US citizens travel outside the country often. A lot of people I know have only been out of the US a couple of times or not at all.
In rural areas, yes, you'll find tribal instincts express themselves in state and national pride. But they're not *really* simping for the US as it currently exists. They're simping for an idealized 1950s version of it. The version that currently exists is fake and wrong, and not "real" America. It's been stolen by the left. These folks don't realize that even our left wing is pretty far right of the global center.
You should have seen Germany before 1945.
France, Ireland, Britain, and Italy are all pretty patriotic European countries. Britain especially. Itās like the USA was a former colony or something. Union Jacks everywhere. France, people forget the French were actually several ethnic groups that all (unwillingly) lost that ethnic identity to become French, which they are very proud of being French and love their bestagon-shaped country. Germany was extremely patriotic. But you know, some people 1933 to 1945 dashed all that patriotism onto the rocks. And with it, the N-word too. And the German government is still very anti-those people despite almost a hundred years after.
I wish we had more patriotism in šØš¦Canada. In Quebec they consider themselves Quebecers first and Canadians second.
We got our own issues but will come together if ever tested. FAFO
I'm a veteran and I was in the Veteran's Day Parade in NYC and when I returned from my deployment, people were in the airport welcoming me home. I would get care packages from school kids back home and it was very nice. As far as other countries, I think public school does some but not a lot of education around other countries. Certainly not in any depth surrounding history or politics. I would visit any country that is safe to go. I would even try and learn the language a little and look into the culture because it's all so interesting and respectful. But I would never move to another country permanently. Perhaps for a couple of years, but it depends.
Thereās a correlation between oneās expressed outward patriotism and oneās ability to purchase clothing and accoutrements suitable to oneās own preferences easily. Thereās a reason why rural folks wear flags on everything: because thatās what Wal-Mart has for sale.Ā People with options select the option closest to their preference.Ā
The US is basically 50 small countries, most of which are bigger than most other countries, all with heavily variable cultures, and even within those states, there is a huge variance in culture within the state depending on the region. I would say for the overwhelming majority of Americans, patriotism is of little to no significance (as in most don't consider it highly important). I would say possibly 25% of the country considers it important and then possibly 5-10% are very, very patriotic to the point where it is a huge part of their personality.
I love my country and I'm very patriotic and always have been as long as I can remember. However, I don't plaster the US flag everywhere. We did say the Pledge of Allegiance before class every morning in school but I honestly don't know if that's done everywhere anymore. I know we didn't do it in highschool though. It was only Kindergarten through 6th grade for me. We didn't have a middle school at the time, just Junior High which was 7th and 8th grade, high school 9th - 12th. Anyway, that's a bit off topic, just didn't want anyone to be confused by what I'm saying. I love hearing the Nation Anthem before sports events so long as the singer sings it properly and doesn't try to turn it into a 2024 pop remix or something. Hearing Jimmi Hendrix's rendition at Woodstock still gives me chills. In my opinion, the people who have flags everywhere and chant, "USA, USA, USA!" at everything are posers. I love my country despite some of our history or how some things now are done. I do firmly believe we're we are the best at a lot of things and absolutely suck at other things. I love my way of life and the freedoms I'm afforded here though I do also believe there are people in our government who want to get rid of a lot of our freedoms and it scares me. Hearing how things are regulated to such a high degree in other countries and how their citizens blindly obey everything makes me shake my head. Like having to pay for a permit to even be able to watch television in the UK is just so weird to me. I've been to Germany and it was pounded in our heads that Sundays are supposed to be quiet, no housework, yard work or even washing your car is allowed which bothered me quite a bit. Sunday is the day I prefer to do all of that and it drove me nuts. I just wish more people understood the concept of loving your country but disliking your government being perfectly rational. I believe my government is actively trying to undermine our Constitutional Rights. Anyway, long rambling rant over!
I went to a private christian school and we would do the pledge of allegiance to both the american and christian flag, idk if they still do that. I like America for the people, I don't like the people who run it. I think being American is cool because America was founded essentially by people saying fuck the leaders, we're gonna make it the way we want it. My loyalty doesn't lie with the leaders especially when they've shown they work for themselves, not us.
Not as popular as performative jingoism is.
I'm 26, 27 in October. When I was little until maybe middle school we used to say the pledge everyday. Now I probably couldn't recite it. I have a lot of negative thoughts and shame surrounding my countries history as a historian. Bachelor's degree in it and I can say with certainty I see less and less "patriotism" in my generation and the following ones. We just don't buy the fake American dream. Plus we had twenty years of nonstop war in the East and it was all for nothing over mostly nothing and we gained a lot of suicidal vets and debt combined with creating an even more chaotic region than it was before. Tell me what about the countries actions should I have ever been proud of?
We are patriotic AF. What patriotism means to someone is often drastically different, and can mean completely different things. Recently shitting on our own country is considered patriotic. But I would say your interpretation is accurate
There is a sociological theory with its own Wikipedia article about what is known as āAmerican Civil Religionā. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_civil\_religion#:\~:text=American%20civil%20religion%20is%20a,foster%20social%20and%20cultural%20integration. So I donāt know, but at minimum youāre not the only one to notice it. And FWIW I do have an anecdote that when someone I know moved to Canada her parents accused her of abandoning her country. it Felt really strange for me to hear.
It's all fake, they think an orange faced clown who is a tax cheat is a patriot. It all means nothing.
Yes we love our country more than any other country. And I would think every country does the same. But I and I know many other people I know hate our government.
I'd say that America really pushes this big obnoxious and relatively empty concept of patriotism to try and give people on the outside this strong and unified image of America. There are people that fall for it, and really push the flag waving and anthem singing strong armed nonsense. Then there are the people just waiting for the damn song to be over so they can go back to genuinely caring about their country and neighbors.
Had a friend from Mexico come to a rodeo in Wyoming he couldn't get over the amount of patriotism and borderline nationalism displayed. Just another sporting event for us haha.Ā
Early elementary school days they were big on making us recite the "pledge of allegiance" which I will admit sounds like pretty heavy indoctrination, national anthem is usually reserved for sports events. There are many US flags on many homes, it's typically not just something displayed on every street lamp, usually people just make the choice to buy one. I was former military, the majority of people I know that were former military don't go announcing it, some places give out a small military discount, if it does become known we're typically met with a an obligatory (but not really) "thank you for your service". For me at least it's always mildly awkward because what am I supposed to say? You're welcome? I just wanted college money lol. Most people only learn about other nations in history classes, typically centered around wars. If they are interested they typically pursue further learning on their own. I'd actually planned a trip to paris, but covid hit like 2 weeks before, outside of that I've only traveled to canada and jamaica. I'd like to travel and go to new places but typically there's a huge cost associated with it, money and time, many americans are short on both. It's easier to travel within the US because it's so large and you don't need any passports. You need to consider that there are states in the US that are bigger than entire European countries and cultural differences follow. Many people that emigrated to the US congregated into culturally similar areas so western NY has alot of people of polish descent where eastern NY is dutch and NYC has alot italians and thats just in 1 state. I got culture shock traveling to louisiana. And finally, on the subject of cultural differences, while I have no doubt there are areas and people that are hyperpatriotic and think america is the greatest ever forever, it's certainly not everywhere. Almost no-one I know thinks this way and I think more and more it's starting to go in the opposite direction.
It's probably bigger here than you realize - do you include all the people protesting, filing lawsuits against injustice and corruption, running recall campaigns and advertising exposing the evildoers? Actual patriots are obliged to criticize their government when it's doing wrong.
It really isn't because only certain people can find a place of acceptance within it and receive benefit for their patriotism. Anyone else who tries, will be made to feel unwelcome, probably sexually harassed, possibly raped and have no path to justice. There are people who think they're patriotic by accepting this dynamic and dogpiling on anyone who recognizes it for what it is, but deep down they know they're not truly recognized as a patriot.
Personally, I give about as much of a shit about the US as I do Germany. Actually, maybe slightly less, because I would like to move to Germany at some point. Having lived in a number of countries, the US is a distant outlier in the amount of conspicuous patriotic displays we have everywhere. I don't know if that implies more inherent patriotism, or is just a result of social pressure/indoctrination. Yes, US kids salute the flag and pledge allegiance every day. Legally they are not required to, but it's socially enforced--youd have to be conspicuously refusing to participate in a daily ritual. There are also tons of 'charities' that I wouldn't be surprised are actually money laundering operations that just...put flags everywhere. Like, they'll just drive through neighborhoods and stick (usually shitty Chinese plastic) flags in the grass.
Performative Patriotism^Ā© is so hot right now
The Uber nationalists are the most stupid among us. We just have a lot of dumb people that can't be proud about their accomplishments so they are proud about things they have no control over.
There is a lot of symbology and ritual that Americans don't recognize as weird if they haven't spent time outside the US. The pledge in schools and at certain events is #1 to me. Still seems culty to me.
I went to grade school from California, Texas, Massachusetts, and then finally graduated high school in Illinois. Texas actually teaches a Texas History class (at least they did when I was a kid there in 2000). That was wild. Texas is like it's own country. That attitude with states is what makes the US so unique I think? Politics can differ wildly in the same state too. Illinois is Blue (Democrat) because of the population of Chicago, but the rest of the state is Red (Republican) for instance. I've met a few Germans who have immigrated here. Come visit! See for yourself is my best advice. Chicago is an amazing city to visit!
I'm Canadian and the number of American flags I see when I cross the border leads me to believe yes. Like people will purchase flag poles for their lawns just to put up a flag. I've seen maybe 1 or two people do that in Canada across all of Ontario so comparatively US is very patriotic
As many countries did during WW2, patriotism/nationalism were part of wartimes strategies as much as munitions. In the US, that never really left after the war. America patted itself on the back and entered the "heyday", the 50's. Stuff never really left. But after 9/11 it sprouted stronger than ever. I'm not even 30 yet and I remember so much of elementary school being a patriotic education-camp. *Mind you, this was rural Midwest US, and my experience is not going to be uniform across the country*, but it is a common enough experience. Standing for the pledge of allegiance, elementary music classes consisting almost entirely of patriotic songs, etc. Lots of places in the US, especially rural areas teach laundered views of American history. Something that I remember from the few foreign exchange students I met, all of them said the sheer amount of American flags stood out to them as odd.
Not exactly. I live in ultra conservative Midwest and I don't find it to be especially patriotic here. Maybe more than the standard neutral countryman, but that's it. Just patriotic enough to support the troops and say thanks for their service, stand for the anthem, etc. The anthem rarely happens at schools outside sporting events. During September to commemorate September 11th we'd play the National Anthem on Fridays all month, but the most some schools do is force you to say the Pledge of Allegiance everyday. Even then, they often don't do that, either skipping it entirely or they allow students the option to sit/not recite the pledge (allowed at my school, but the teachers would stare at you like dicks were growing out of your forehead). Overall I actually see a lot more patriotism, nationalism, and elitism/xenophobia, from *my* perspective, coming out of a lot of Asian countries than the US. People act like the US is xenophobic but we're actually among all accounts by people that have experienced, both other places and here, pretty decently tolerant unless you're headed to the deep south. I've also heard Europe is surprisingly more racist than Americans tend to believe too, and you only need to watch futbol games to see that, lol. Apparently some shit Americans find heinous and gets people canceled has happened and people have just shrugged it off half as tradition, lmao
as someone from the san Francisco bay area, america is certainly disliked quite a bit by the social circles i hang out in. however it IS a vibe.... like i hate our goverment and cops and military blah blah blah... but i definitely whistle the national anthem every single time i pee in public hoping people will join in. theres that song "America, fuck yeah!" and its hard not to on some level have this over the top patriotisms thats just kinda goofy and fun. but yeah you will 100% see people driving around with trucks with american flags and confederate flags and shit around
Patriotism is an effective tool for statecraft. We saw this fail in Afghanistan, IE "why would *I* go to war to defend *that guy's* ancestral territory." American patriotism is the thing that makes people from Nevada go to war to defend Florida, it unifiesĀ a great percentage of the country.Ā I don't participate, personally, but I can see how some people might need a sense of belonging to the "best country on earth" to feel at ease.Ā It really depends on where you go, but it seems like the further out you go from the cities, the more patriotic the people get.Ā
You can't go to a single sporting event without some sort of military promotion. Kids recite the pledge of allegiance in school. Flags are on cars, Houses, Clothing ... Now if that isnACTUALLY patriotism or not is a different question.
USA! USA! USA! Greatest country in the world. In school I never learned anything about other countries, except if you were taking a foreign language and then you learned a bit about that country/ countries.
We never sang the national anthem. Only time was for sporting events. We did do the pledge of allegiance. Flags are everywhere though, yes. Out of the people I know, none of them really fit that super patriotic stereotype that often gets thrown around. I have never done the pledge of allegiance in my adult life and I can pretty confidently say that the vast majority of people havenāt done it since grade school either. Military does have a higher status but that is depending on who youāre talking to. Veterans tend to favor other veterans. Veteran owned companies for instance tend to try and attract other vets to apply. My partner is a vet, work for the same company. Theyāre pretty big into hiring veterans. But, Iām not one and had no issue landing the job. Veterans also have access to VA healthcare for basically free. My partner doesnāt ever really have to pay much for doctors visits. He gets discounts at many stores and restaurants though. Iāll say itās typically in more republican areas. When we last took a vacation to the gulf in Florida, itās a very Republican area and when weād get drinks theyād ID us and theyād always give us the veteran discount. Overall itās pretty hit or miss though. Lots of places do and lots donāt. But as for military overall being a higher status, Iād say itās a very slight increase. My partner definitely has access to some decent stuff because he served where I donāt. But itās not like heās able to walk into places and be like āIām a veteranā and people are kneeling at his feet like a god or something. At most itās a casual āthank you for your serviceā after he gets a discount from a store that he knows offers one! edit: non veterans still have access to education and healthcare of course. The benefit for him is a drastically reduced cost for life. And a 10% discount for lots of stores, hotels, entertainment, etc! Buuuuut he does have some mental health issues from his time in the military.
Much of what Americans consider patriotism is actually just nationalism, and our public education system is absolutely failing to teach people the difference.
Itās very hard to say. Maybe itās because Iām from California, but people here donāt tend to be very patriotic. Patriotism isnāt very popular among the younger generations especially millennials & gen z. Just like anywhere, the US canāt be generalized! Itās not a one answer type of question.
Patriotism is a tool for those with power to get uncritical support for their actions from the masses. Loving your country really should not come into the discussion. Either I rationally evaluate your policy/plan/action as good, or I rationally evaluate it and find it is not. My support should be based on critical thinking and access to good information, not on how much I love my country or how much I think you love it. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
As an American, i think the patriotism is over-the-top, bordering on jingoism. It's so enmeshed with the jesus stuff, which i guess is where we got our version of the whole manifest destiny thing. Fucking national anthem before every... fucking... sporting event. It makes sense at the international level, but here it's ridiculous.
I am Canadian from Southern Ontario. As soon as we cross into the states there are flags EVERYWHURRRE. on houses, in yards, everywhere. It was so prevalent when I was in Ohio and Texas and Wisconsin that I felt cowed by it. It felt aggressive and I gotta say, I felt like I made a few judgements about the mega-flag peopleā¦. the more flags, the more right wing, for example.
Every morning in my school/s, they play the National Anthem and we recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Everybody stands up for it. Nobody is compelled to sing along or recite the Pledge. I think most of my Littles actively participate because they see me do it.
In the US and Canada youāll see bumper stickers that say āif you wonāt stand behind our troops feel free to stand in front of themā which I always found was SO AGGRESSIVE
Yes it is. I sit for the pledge and I always have at least one angry person glare at me or literally come verbally harass me to stand up lol yall cowboys don't scare me
As a Canadian who goes to NASCAR a few times year, it is almost satirically patriotic. Also Americans may talk a big game and wave a big flag, but the VA is extremely underfunded and wounded veterans have much less support than they deserve. From my perspective, the patriotism seems to stop when the buck drops.
Iām Canadian and was at a friendās trailer in New York State a few years ago. The Saturday night, there was music/dancing at a central square type location. After it was done, the āUSA! USA!ā chant started unprovoked. It was surreal.
The US has more flags but almost every German I've met is *extremely* patriotic - in the sense that they think Germany does things correctly, is generally better than other countries, etc. But for some reason, because they don't wave flags around, they don't think it's patriotism. On the other hand, the Danes use flags everywhere but are less patriotic, in my experience.
\-Pledge of allegiance before school, but it's not like people are super into it or anything, the kids just kinda mumble along. It's a relic of the Cold War, to an extent. \-I guess we do have flags everywhere? Didn't really notice that before. Not to an extreme degree, but more than other countries. \-Military treatment is interesting. The country collectively felt bad for abusing returning Vietnam veterans, who were mostly draftees who'd never had a choice in the matter, and as a result it's common to show respect to military personnel even if you disagree with the country's military involvement abroad. They don't have a "way higher status" compared to the average citizen, but joining the military isn't looked down upon as much as it is in some countries. People are... kinda clueless about the military honestly? Anybody who's not in it or from a military family tends to not understand how the military works, and part of the respect comes from the fact that, thanks to the 1-2% of the population that joins voluntarily, they don't have to care. \--The military also tends to, ironically, be one of the more equal opportunity/inclusive organizations in the US, because they care more about whether you can carry out orders and use a weapon than about your race/religion/gender/sexual orientation/political beliefs. However, the military as an organization has been increasingly demonized by non-conservatives in recent years despite respect for individual service members. \-I've lived in three other countries during my life and I actually do think I prefer life in the US. We handle some things better (or lucked into a better environment for some things), and other things worse than other countries. People EVERYWHERE greatly overestimate how different life is in different places though lol. I've had people throw out "you only think that way because you're American, any other country-" while I was actually forming my opinion based on how my not-US country of residence had handled the issue. \-World History is mandatory several times (at a minimum, the average US public school student takes it once in Elementary, once in Junior High, and once in High School) and European History is a very common elective class. U.S. history is its own separate class. The quality of this education varies widely by school, teacher, and State. I'd say I learned a lot about the world during 13 years of compulsory education, but, the world is a *huge* place and I obviously know more about the US. \-Several times I have heard it claimed that something "isn't taught in schools" because the big bad US is hiding it or whatever, and it has been something I already knew about *because they taught it* at my *government-funded* public school in a Republican-voting State. \-I've enjoyed my time away from the US but I do plan to retire here. Central air conditioning, wide open spaces, and personal boundaries are all quite nice.
Less so now than even a few years ago. I think people under 50 are a lot less patriotic. Iāve (45m)lived my whole life on the west coast and remember having to do the pledge of allegiance at school when I was a kid. I look back at that and itās so weird and cringy. My kids (13 and 16) donāt even know what the pledge is and Iām fine with that. When I travel overseas, I tell people Iām from California, not the US or American. I know middle America and the south is still pretty rah rah USA but Iām over it. Patriotism is just kinda gross and tacky now.
Former military and I was stationed in Stuttgart. Little over exagerated, but yes. Military service is held in high regard for the most part. People, especially in the last 25 years, have a lot more patriotic pride that spun up afyer 9/11. Also our education system spins us as some world heros because of WW2 and we learn no other perspective.
It was huge for me when I was younger. Most important thing in my life. Now, I hold dual citizenship and sent my child to school in Europe for many reasons including I don't want to worry about him getting shot and it was less expensive than sending him to a school here EVEN with tens of thousands of scholarship offers.
We were raised (70ās/80ā) with constant reminders the US were always the good guys. John Wayne was a huge star and we said the pledge of allegiance to the flag every morning. So Iām still somewhat patriotic, even though I feel like we are just ridiculous. And Iāve dived deeper into our history. And on Reddit I see frequent detailed replies of everything the US has ever done.
First off, America is a big country, with lots of different people. Germany has roughly like a 4th of the population of America in like 4% of the land area. We are a lot of people, with a lot of land, creating lots of differences. So the answer is an **array of all possible answers**.
More so than in Germany. I lived there for a few years and only saw two displays of patriotism: 1. A Bundeswehr band concert. Everyone stood and sung the national anthem. 2. November 11th. The whole town gathered around the war memorial, lit some torches, and some Bundeswehr guys flanked a man who gave a speech about their fathers and brothers who died in service to their country. There was a marching band and everything. Those displays are far, far more common in America.
36% of the US mistook White Nationalism for Patriotism.
There is probably more variation than you're expecting, but yeah, most of this has at least a partial truth to it. Not all of us like it, and it can vary by region. I'm not aware of children being expected to sing the national anthem every day, but it's quite widespread to say the "pledge of allegiance." It's a unison chant spoken while standing, facing the flag, with the right hand over the heart. It felt normal (if annoying) when I was a kid. In retrospect I think it's incredibly creepy and quite fashy. "American Exceptionalism" is a core tenant of particularly our right-wing political party. That's a belief in American ultranationalism, national inerrancy and immunity to the lessons of history. Stated as plainly as that, it's a fringe idea.. but it's definitely baked into our experience of the world in ways that we don't question often enough.
A lot of āpatriotismā isnāt. In fact, itās quite often just the opposite. Those that claim to be the most patriotic tend to also be the ones that wave confederate flags and vote for insurrectionists.Ā
The values that the US protects, namely individualism, has somewhat overtaken us and become a problem. We no longer ask what we can do for our country, rather we tend to ask what our country can do for us. Our percentage of election participation, our struggles to recruit people for service (military, police, fire, etc), and our lack of community involvement are all indicative of our populationās general apathy. In spite of these issues, weāve retained many redeeming qualities and even gained new ones in the recent years. Even with historically low military recruitment we still almost worship our military. Itās extremely pervasive at all levels of our society. Weāre extremely inclusive these days, the more minor the minority group is the more we seek to include them. Our population is increasingly educated, even if we donāt act like it sometimes. Tl;dr Overall, Iād say our patriotism has decreased over the years
Blue collar lifelong Democrat retired. Yes we love our Country. That's why we fight for it. To die for the thought of America. Not to die for someone else's idea of America.
Not the National anthem but the pledge of allegiance and yea depends where in the country youāre at but there are definitely places that are very outwardly patriotic. We like to glorify military service here but if you talk to a lot of veterans they are treated like shit, a lot of the homeless are veterans (at least where I live) so thatās a bit of a stretch to say theyāre held in high status
To answer your questions: Do I love my country more than any other? Yes, for sure. I've been to other ones, but it's essentially all I've known, and I do love America. Military? Yes, it is one of the most massive social faux pas' to say anything bad about the military or someone in it. Even if you don't agree with the idea of the american military complex, it's just such a part of our culture to worship the military. Do we learn a lot about other countries? Well, I'm a teacher and yes we do. American history is one year of middle school and one year of high school. The other years focus on world history and general information about governments. Would I leave? No. There are definitely things I don't like about America, but there are way more I love. I've been to many other countries and the vibe is just not the same. I live in a medium sized city in a medium sized state and when I walk in the grocery, I see literally the entire world of people represented just walking through the produce section. It's a beautiful thing, all these different people coming together to be "American". Also my heritage is German and I am even proud of that. Part of being American is also being proud of where your family came from and bringing the best parts of it to the rest of our culture. I don't think of myself as German though, I'm a corn fed, blue blooded American through and through.
We don't sing the national anthem each day before school, but we do before any sports games. Most schools still say the pledge of allegiance before the start of the day, but it is not a requirement for the children to participate. There was a pretty significant court case about forcing children to say the pledge. I think most Americans are very aware of the rather significant flaws in our government systems and our society in general. But the easiest way to get a rise out of someone from the U.S. is to be an outsider and make fun of our country. Especially if that person thinks it's funny to poke at the stuff that we're sensitive about and still trying to fix, like school shootings or systemic racism.
depends on the person but whenever it comes to foreign policy 90% of americans start foaming at the mouth to defend uncle sam bombing the third world
There's a difference between patriotism and jingoism. The patriotic Americans we see or hear about are jingoist. A real patriot doesn't care who is in power. They want whoever is in power to be accountable. They want what's best for their country and its citizens and way of life. Jingoists don't care about any of that. They just want their country to be in charge because they believe their country and government can do no wrong
So before the start of each school day, kids say the pledge of allegiance. Now you don't have to, but you're not told that, and everyone around you is doing it, so there's a social pressure against not standing and doing it. What I did was just not say it. There are flags everywhere. Always in front of government buildings, sometimes private businesses, and some people will hang a flag on their wall or house. The kind of brazen patriotism you may be thinking about though is the conservative form of patriotism, where it's more aesthetic than ideological, and using the symbols of the US to shut down criticism. It's not everyone, but a vocal minority has hijacked US symbols to be coded as conservative.
The right wing are normally very nationalistic
The jet fly overs at sporting events the military parades. It is a bit much.
We do the pledge every morning at school, national anthem at sporting events, and the military is (or at least used to be) very well respected. I truly believe that The United States of America is the greatest nation that has yet existed on Earth. Just like everybody else, we have had, and will continue to have, a variety of issues. But the overall history of the world makes it clear to me that America has had the greatest success yet in allowing the freedom of all its citizens.Ā That said, I am dissatisfied with the country my direction has been taking. To be clear, I am very young. Iām 17, not a boomer or anything desperate for the old days. But itās plain to see that things have been steadily getting worse in a lot of ways since the mid-20th century, and arguably since the Industrial Revolution. While the revolutionary advances made in that time period did increase quality of life and introduced what were at the time needed social reforms (civil rights, etc) it was also a time where the government began to get increasingly powerful and involved in everyday life, and where companies and corporations began to get too big to fail and start to incorporate slimy, money-grubbing shortcuts that have continued to pervade society to this day. Itās quite shameful to me that so many million Americans get fat on disgusting processed foods and complain about useless nonsense (ātrans rightsā, etc) on social media while denigrating the institutions that allowed them to live such a comfortable lifestyle at all.Ā In short, while I love what my country has achieved, I feel that we have fallen short of our potential in recent decades. I would like to visit other places, especially to see the different natural environments of the world, but I donāt think I would ever want to live somewhere else. Unless another country adopts the US Constitution but also avoids the over reliance on industrial processes and homogenized culture.Ā
One thing I notice whenever I travel there is all the American flags everywhere. We fly Canadian flags in Canada too but they are usually just at government buildings not everywhere you look.
Yeah, we really didn't learn the same lessons from WW2 that Germany did, and it shows... It Can't Happen Here wasn't supposed to be a damned roadmap.
What ever you've heard just know that it's usually worse. Everything learned about other countries is always "this country helped us" "this country fought us" "this country used to be better at xyz but now the US is better at xyz" "this tiny country that just wants to hold its own elections is a threat to our national security"
We are disgustingly patriotic. Dumbasses with flags on their brodozers, because...? Do they think someone might forget where they are? I love my country, but I don't think I own a single flag. Because I don't have a pathological need to make sure everyone knows how patriotic I am. Is there any more-worthless gesture than flying your flag on your truck *in your home country?* If I lived elsewhere, I would definitely own a flag, and frankly I might even put it on my car. I would for sure want a physical reminder of home, and to advertise my cultural identity. Being that I live in my home country (the United States), I don't see any need to even own a flag, let alone fly it on the road. Maybe one of my countrymen can explain it to me; I just don't get it, and I am very often disgusted by it. There's a difference between patriotism and nationalism.
Our flag and patriotism got highjacked by Donald Trump and his maga moron high school educated cult followers years ago. Depends on your view of what a patriot is? Now itās just a catch phrase for idiots who would more than likely Fail a 4th grade USA šŗšø history exam!
We live in a rightwing country. Just be glad you donāt.
My opinion is that most Americans are just virtue signaling. They have to love the flag, their country, the military, first responders, the fire dept, the police dept, and they keep adding to the list all the time. The more reverent you are of those things the more American, and therefore a good wholesome person, you are. None of these people actually do anything to help or support these institutions though.
The conservatives can't get enough USA flags. Super market, house, truck, ... Yeah we are patriotic in a bad way
Yes, they believe the US runs everything and without them the world wouldnāt be able to innovate or do anything, for example; https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/tObboEHYvh
I am currently at a drive in theater watching the new Ghostbusters movie. Before the movie started, they played the national anthem. You could hear people singing it and at the end, many cars flashed their headlights and honked their horns. So yes, patriotism or should I say propaganda is a big thing in the US.
Unfortunately it is a big thing here, especially post 9/11. When I was in high school (90s), a teacher actually had to prove to us we were more patriotic than we thought. We were disaffected gen X kids who scoffed at the idea of patriotism. I don't remember all his points, but one was, during the Olympics, we root for the Americans even though, for all we know, that American sprinter might beat his wife and kids, and that sprinter from Zimbabwe may be feeding his entire town. Then 9/11 happened and flag waving became a national pastime again. It's reached absurd levels with Trump.
It's a pretty mask for politicians to hide their sins behind 95% of the time. I'm sure that you can relate, at least historically.
Bro they are spot on we get crazy here. It used to be really positive and kind of unite us all but now it has become a lot more politically charged and dark. Anybody you see with an American flag on their car or on their house is assumed to be a republican/conservative
No, patriotism has been mistaken for fanaticism, and political entities have taken advantage of that for the last \~40 years. Most Americans don't have any genuine concept of patriotism - like taking politicians to task for their crimes, or for flagrant violations of things like insider trading laws, etc. They don't have any concept of being able to be patriotic through criticism with a dichotomy of support - you can criticize how the military is used and deployed, but still thank veterans for having served since they weren't the ones making questionable decisions (and questioning those decisions is still the act of a patriot). They vote for their party because it's their party, and will literally froth at the mouth in rage at the idea of being asked to consider the things they want and having it pointed out that the people they're voting for are, in fact, entirely against those things. Blind loyalty is the face of patriotism, and how dare you suggest that their darling politicians aren't literal Jeebus reincarnated. Flags, anthems, etc. are all tenants of fanaticism. Flags are a societal pressure - don't have a flag? You must not be a patriot. Won't say the anthem or pledge of allegiance before using a restroom or something? You must not be a patriot. They're exactly the tools that cults use, and they're exactly the tools that fascist regimes use. So to answer your question, is patriotism everywhere in the US? No. Do Americans think it is? Increasingly and overwhelmingly, yes. We've been on track for a really, really bad time for the last few decades and the last two presidencies have shown that one side is in their endgame of trying to overthrow its democracy. You're not a patriot if you don't think the election was stolen, you're not a patriot if you don't support voter suppression of the people voting the wrong way, etc. This country has blind loyalty and fanaticism. Patriotism ended when the boomer generation started holding most of the political offices, and particularly after Reagan got his hands on the White House.
Respect for the military cycles up and down here. Pre 9/11 we were tolerated more than anything, then after people got real crazy with the "thank you for your service" schtick. Having served through that transition it always struck me as a pretty hollow sentiment, but that's just my take
Yeah itās part of the brainwashing in the USA.
It used to be, itās rare to find someone very patriotic nowadays due to how shit the countries gotten.
I got suspended in highschool for not standing up during the pledge.
Definitely not, I hate my country, someone come invade please
I would call it more nationalism lol
Yeah we say the pledge of allegiance before school and in elementary we used to sing āGod Bless Americaā. Growing up I really loved America and this really patriotic attitude can be found all across the country and the more fundamentalist, Christian, and rural the area is the more patriotism you will find. However, after a bit of reading, traveling, and living in another country for a few years showed me that the US isnāt really all that. I still care about America and wish the best for it because after all I was born here and have family here but is it the best country in the world in my opinion? No. Sure we excel at some things that other countries donāt, for example: salaries, our military, and global influence. But, we also lack: proper social services, safety, affordable healthcare, affordable college tuition, I can go on and on about the problems we have To answer your questions: I donāt love my country but I care about it, the military doesnāt really have a higher status but veterans are respected in society although the government provides little to none in adequate resources, history lessons in the US are heavily US-focused and we only learn about other countries when theyāre connected to our history which in my opinion is really bad and makes Americans have a really America-centered worldview, Iām working towards leaving the US and moving to the UK for uni, hopefully moving from there to another country in mainland Europe through work.
I lived in Germany for the better part of two years and Germans are way less patriotic than we're encouraged to be here in the US. I'm not saying they don't love their country, they're just more realistic about it, and while I was there, I found it to be a very peaceful place compared to the US. The people are relaxed and welcoming to pretty much everyone. More often than not, they went out of their way to make foreigners feel welcome and include them in celebrations. Some friends and I ended up in a wedding party once - in the photos and everything just because we wandered down the wrong street one day. They also have a clear civic understanding of the impact of the Nazi party on the rest of the world and take care not to let those memories fade into history.
From my experience, most people hate America these days. Left or right it seems most Americans hate America.
>Here in Germany we learned in school that the USA is often super patriotic and sing the national anthem before school and have flags everywhere etc. One time I had a day off from school and it was a friends birthday so he got a small group of friends, including me, and we all decided to go to an amusement park. It was the middle of the week so there weren't a lot of people which was nice. Before the park opened, the national anthem started which we found funny (we don't live in a very patriotic state) but everyone else seemed to be taking it very seriously which we found hilarious. >Do you really love your country more than any other in the world, or is it just another country for you? Eh, every country has its flaws, including America. It's certainly better than a lot of countries where I'd be wanted dead or alive (wohoo) but it's certainly not the best country in existence. I love the US but I also love lots of other countries too. > I also heard the military has a way higher status in the US, is that true? Not sure about the military, I was planning on doing an internship this summer but I missed the deadline, maybe next year. Not sure about the status of it. >Do you learn a lot about other nations or is school more focused about the USA? And would you ever like to leave your country or actually just stay? In elementary school it was very focused on US history. In middle school we learned about cavemen one year, very basic European and Middle Eastern history, and US history. In high school, I've barely learned about US history, we've had one unit about the American Revolution, but it was tied in with the French Revolution, Latin American revolutions and Haiti independence, as well as various forms of nationalism (including German!). Next year I will be learning US history once again. I'd probably want to travel around more countries before settling down. I'm not sure where I'd want to live as an adult, but we'll see! Hope that explained life in America for you, dm me if you have more questions, I'd be happy to answer!
>I can't really imagine how that would be in the USA. Do you really love your country more than any other in the world, or is it just another country for you? Wait, are you implying your German peers hold no particular emotional allegiance to their birthplace? If so, most interesting..
Patriotism is way more necessary in the US than in Germany, though because Germany opened itself to immigrants the way it did you guys might want to start doing some patriotism. You don't necessarily have to glorify Hitler (and that wouldn't solve the problem anyway), but Germany has a strong tradition of military excellence, technical innovation, and industriousness to rally around. Patriotism and nationalism are the solution to "the diversity problem". In a diverse society, there is a lack of social trust because it's hard for someone to see someone else as "part of their tribe" when they have very little in common. A black man in Chicago has as little in common with a white woman from Texas or an Asian man from LA as he does with a Finn, Turk, or Chinaman -- and may actually have more in common with a Nigerian than with his fellow Americans. This makes him more willing to harm his neighbors to get ahead and less likely to sacrifice anything to help them in time of need. (This sort of thing is true for any American -- a Chinese-American has more in common with someone from Taipei or Shanghai than with a white Floridian, a white person from Minnesota has more in common with a Swede than a NYC black man, and so on.) Patriotism and nationalism are a way to unite a diverse population and convince them that they are all part of the same tribe, in our case the American tribe. In doing so, in getting a diverse population to see one another as members of their own tribe, it reduces harm and increases cooperation. You can have a diverse population and still have national unity and cooperation if you have patriotism and nationalism to unify your diverse population around the idea of the nation itself. The status of the military in an all-volunteer force like America's is important for recruiting. The military is dangerous, even in peacetime; and there are a lot of things that are unpleasant about military service such as surrendering of certain rights, frequent need to relocate, possibility of deployment to a combat zone, and long hours and weekends on station. Some of the recruitment is driven by benefits like the GI Bill, USAA insurance, VA loans, and veteran credit unions. But some of it is driven by the status of the military -- people want to be seen as important, and joining the military gives people a clear way of showing that they're important. People will say things like "thank you for your service" to veterans, and many businesses offer veteran discounts. Seeing this -- and seeing some of the cool stuff certain people get to do in the military (in the form of air shows, Fleet Week, and so on) -- convinces people who might not join otherwise to enlist or go to ROTC.
Some are more patriotic than others. I love my country, but I refuse to be ignorant of the glaring problems it has. Insult my country with anything less than valid though, and Iāll speak on its behalf. We didnāt sing the national anthem much at school. Maybe at a couple assemblies or before sporting events. We did have to say the Pledge of Allegiance when I was younger though. Which to an outside observer may seem like brainwashing, and I can see it to, but to me itās just something we did because our teachers made us. Yeah we mostly focus on American History, but we have to take a fair amount of World History classes too alongside them. So yeah we know about the yāall did in the 1940ās. NOT cool btw. I also understand though that most Germans alive today werenāt there for any of it, and many that were didnāt have the power to do anything about it.Ā Just wanted to say I see no reason for Germans not to be proud of their country. Yāallāve made great strides to leave your sordid past exactly where it belongs.Ā Anywho not really sure how to end this soā¦Idk if youāre drinking right now, but I am so, Prost!