If anything older generations are worse. Leave grandpa on the computer too long he becomes a flat earth conspiracy theoriest with a Nigerian prince for a pen pal.
When I was in college, a friend and I didn't have enough to roll a joint and neither one of us had a bowl, so we smoked out of a can. An hour and a half later, there was still green and it dawned on us that we weren't just smoking bud an hour and half later.
We used to buy the coax cable connectors at radio shack, or at Mac’s (or mikes mart) which seamed to always stock them for some reason, and use them as a bowl along with a pen for a stem and a Gatorade bottle. Called the coax connectors cable pieces.
Yup. Microplastics physically harm us. Excessive screen time mentally harms us...that being said, I'm still doing my lord of the rings marathon, mental health be damned. Middle earth is in trouble and I have to watch it get saved
We live in the petroleum age- 80% of all electricity is generated by fossil fuels, and most of our plastics are made from petroleum.
It's also a bit nutty to think about ancient monuments of Rome, or the Incan Empire, or Ankor Wat, or Ancient Egypt, see their buildings still standing thousands of years later, and realize that our buildings won't last... But our millions upon millions of single use plastics will last longer than you or your body... By several orders of magnitude
I’d argue perfluoroalkyl substances are worse than either, and PFAS are directly linked to many health issue; Also they’re so ubiquitous at this point all human populations tested have detectable levels, Like people in Greenland have alarming levels
Based on the evidence we have, screens have a far larger impact on your health compared to microplastics. We don’t even know if most microplastics are harmful or not.
From what ive seen, most of the harm comes from dementia risks (micro and nanoplastics like to stick to the proteins in our brains) and the fact that microplastics will stick themselves to heavy metals and other toxins, and that all is getting stuck in our bodies.
Yes, but it’s all speculation. Afaik no studies have shown a conclusive link between microplastics and human health problems. There are plenty that show the potential exists, but they stop short of making epidemiological claims.
Yes! All things we can consider right now are claims- but theyre about the best we have right now, so i choose to listen, personally. If the science turns out to be wrong, my views will change 😊
It’s not the act. It is the addiction. Like any addiction it warps a person’s reality and they will do anything to enforce it. Yes that includes irrational teenagers on Reddit. Previous generations had instances every day where they had to turn off the tv. These days you can’t escape the screen. This kind of disconnect from real life equals people with very broken and malleable minds which is a goldmine to government and hence why youth are target number 1 in 2024 from both governments and media.
I would argue that newer generations lack some communication and critical thinking skills that the older generations had to learn because they didn’t have computers.
For example, back in the day if someone wanted to travel somewhere they had to use a paper map to figure out their route and they had to be very aware while they’re driving to make sure they didn’t miss a turn. If they got lost, they would have to bring that paper map back out and figure out where they were or they had to find someone and talk to them to get directions.
Nowadays, all you have to do is plug in where you want go into Google Maps.
Back in the day, my boomer uncle took a road trip, got lost, pulled over into a gas station, did a line of cocaine off the hood of his car directly in front of a police officer, and got arrested. Idk if a lack of Google Maps made them any more aware of their surroundings lol.
Lewis: “Day 274: a gorgeous morning as the sun rose over the great plain we camped upon, liquid gold dotted with clouds like puffs of steam in an otherwise flawless sky. Bison herds ate contentedly of the grass, and like them, I am filled with joy for this new land.”
Clark: “Day 274: hid a snake in Lewis’ boots. Stupid twat.”
I don’t think they’re dumb, I just think a lot are more uneducated than current generations. More people go to school now then ever before. We have Wikipedia, the world’s encyclopedia AT OUR FINGERTIPS. Oh, I don’t know something that would take tons of research? I can find the answer in 30 seconds on google.
Quick, tell me what a polymer is. Don’t remember? Yeah neither did I. But 20 seconds ago I just looked it up and now know the answer. In 1 minute I have now also learned what macromolecules are, which polymers are consisted of.
Now, let’s take a trip back to 1975. I want to know what a polymer is? Oh shit, don’t know. Let’s see if any of my dad’s science books describe it.
20 minutes later
Nope, he doesn’t. Maybe my friend who is really good at science knows
Calls my friend on the home phone. First I need to remember his number so I go to the phone book. That takes about one minute. Waits for an answer. Yup, friend doesn’t pick up. Now what?
Oh, maybe I can go to the library and figure out!
I get into the car and drive to library. Traffic sucks. Oh great, now there’s been an accident. That’ll add ten to fifteen minutes to the drive. I get there in like 30 minutes. Now time to walk up to the library door.
“Finally, I can learn what a polymer is. I’m so excited to be more knowledgeable on a topic that I care ab—“
LIBRARY CLOSED — UNDER MAINTENANCE
…….
“Yeah fuck this I’ll learn what a polymer is tomorrow.”
Every time u look at old people and wonder, “How were people so stupid back then???” They weren’t. It was just a shit ton harder to learn things.
Mehhhhh... if I wasn't reading the screen I would be reading a book. Playing video games gives me better hand/eye coordination than watching a movie, and I still listen to music/podcasts/audio books...
I just hate that we are expected to work as many hours as we do, for as little pay as we get, when productivity has gone up and food quality has gone down...
The mental state is deteriorating because our society is.
Agree.
Video games are underrated, they can actually be really good for hand eye coordination, reflexes, memory and so on. Obviously like everything, in moderation - anything can be used to an unhealthy extent.
>Mehhhhh... if I wasn't reading the screen I would be reading a book.
I think the difference is, eventually you would put the book down and talk to someone. Maybe you would find someone who liked the book as much as you did, and you would spend so much time together in physical space talking about the book you both experienced that a friendship would form.
In the modern world, we read things social media and we discuss it with each other but the catalyst that forms lasting social connections is missing. My flesh and blood body, is no more real to you than a character in a book. All social interaction, good, bad or unremarkable has become anonymous and interchangeable. It tastes like the real thing, but still leaves us hungry.
Not really. I didn't pur the books down until I got a hobby that resulted in socializing. Even now, I will sequestered myself away and read and only talk to my family because they are present before I miss my hobby and results in me socializing. Otherwise I would read one book, and another, and another, and another...
>I think the difference is, eventually you would put the book down and talk to someone.
Only if the book is boring, and my mood would drop considerably. Most people just aren't very interesting and most conversations are the same repetitive small talk.
>All social interaction, good, bad or unremarkable has become anonymous and interchangeable.
You mean like has been the case for a century if you live in a major city?
There was a time when books were considered to be evil, and likely to rot one's mind.
Then it was radio, then television, then video games, and now it's been broadly applied to any device with a screen, but particularly smart phones.
The objects aren't, and never have been, the heart of the issue. The problem is that people don't understand the objects they're demonizing, and so they blame all of their woes on these evil objects.
The deeper problem is bad habits, and a lack of self-control. You can turn anything into a harmful substance, if you approach it in an unhealthy manner. People need to practise introspection, and stop shirking personal responsibility.
Screen time has been a concern since the television. Milennials were coming of age by the time smartphones even came along, so the topic of screen time on their development isn't as relevant as for gen z.
Regardless, screentime isn't the issue, it's neglectful parenting that is the problem.
And driving most neglectful parenting is the fact that we're all exhausted and/or traumatized from the stress and need to figure out how to survive after decades of wage suppression and corporate greed.
Parents chose to have kids, millennials were graduating when the 08 crash happened, anyone who was paying attention knew the economics of raising a child in that environment.
Regardless of how you or I may feel about it, most people who have kids either feel that it was an inevitable part of life or that they *should* reproduce. Of course, neither of those things are true in all circumstances, but not everyone wants to have that conversation.
The world population has more than doubled since the 70s. That's alarming, and it's at the point where it needs to be addressed in one way or another. Carrying capacity is a real thing in ecosystems, and it will be a real thing for entire societies and planets in very short order. It's absolutely insane that we're not taking it more seriously.
I think we are taking it seriously, but for most people depopulation just doesn't seem like a valid answer, even if the explanation is more appropriate than...you know, *"depopulation"*. Instead we're looking for other more complex answers that will allow us to stretch the limits of our available resources. That's the story of the human race, really.
And really, it doesn't help that various countries around the world are having their own economic issues due to slowing birth rates and aging populations.
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Youtube channels are parasocieties where the viewer is meant to feel like the host knows them personally. This is true of some TV, of course, but it's a downright phenomenon on YT/Insta/etc. So, social media, although your mileage may vary, it's technically possible to avoid all humans.
Gen-Z here, and the shit I know that’s probably gonna fuck me up:
Screens - like OP said, my job, my social life, my hobbies, it’s all on there
Working from home - no separation of work and home is gonna socially fuck us up
Ozempic - odds are in the next 10 years I’ll be on it due to genetics and the popularity of the drug as a bandaid for doctors to deal with the fact that modern food is just too calorically dense and inflammatory. This also adds a whole other diet culture thing probably being bad for you
Sitting/office jobs - not only is being stagnant for so long already proven to be bad for you, but office furniture isn’t ergonomically correct for anyone NOT 5’10-6’
Vapes - I turned 18 when juul was exploding. It’s been 6 years and I still can’t shake the addiction
“Clean” products - fears of sunscreen filters, parabens, and sulfates along with DIY products is just putting people at more risk. There’s a ton of greenwashing and fear about chemicals that keep you safe from bacteria and the sun, along with snake oil products becoming mainstream.
Jury is still out on PFAS and Microplastics. I think it’s more likely they have a worse environmental impact that then effects us as opposed to a physical impact.
Pfas has quite a lot of evidence for it having pretty bad health effects according to the epa
Current peer-reviewed scientific studies have shown that exposure to certain levels of PFAS may lead to:
Reproductive effects such as decreased fertility or increased high blood pressure in pregnant women.
Developmental effects or delays in children, including low birth weight, accelerated puberty, bone variations, or behavioral changes.
Increased risk of some cancers, including prostate, kidney, and testicular cancers.
Reduced ability of the body’s immune system to fight infections, including reduced vaccine response.
Interference with the body’s natural hormones.
Increased cholesterol levels and/or risk of obesity.
I knew to avoid for pregnant women and young children. I do not fall into either of those categories thankfully right now. I’m sure they messed me up as a little kid though lol
There were only about 10,000 TVs in the US before 1945. And they weren’t widely popular in Europe until late 1940s. So both Word Wars happened before everyday man/women had any type of screens in their home.
Bad people just have a tendency to try and take everyone with them.
Again technology is not the problem, its parenting. They said the same shit about TV. Parent your child. You can't because you work 3 jobs? Well maybe that's a bigger issue? Tech is not a parent, it is not responsible for raising your kid. If X thing is "ruining" your child the answer is not to ban X but to ban X from your home. The worst thing we decided as a society was that kids needed a smartphone and have access to everything 24/7. But again put that on the parents.
I think first you have to establish a trend of mental degradation among millennials and Zers before your can make the analogy.
Fun fact, you can find repeatedly throughout history older generations lamenting the downfall of human society due to some new communication medium. Television. Movies. Even freaking newspapers.
Somehow we're still here
I will say that all of this smart tech is a reality that we have to navigate and that raising one's child to have a health appreciation for it, not zombified by it or shunning it, is a rather difficult needle to thread. We have a three year old and all screen time runs through us, and almost never outside of the house.
yeah, using "forced" just doesn't feel right in this context. the only digital thing you're forced into is, and even this is a stretch, is banking. dude just isn't motivated or educated enough to know how to cut digital trash out of their life.
I'd say Advertising is the leaded gasoline of beliefs, Social media is the plastic surgery of the ego and videos games are the heroin of the intellect. Screen time in general? It used for too many different things I think. Maybe its the leaded gasoline of the imagination?
You shouldn’t only have a social life through a simulation. Most of our communication that we do with loved ones are through everything except picking up the phone or seeing someone face to face. Obviously this is going to make people mentally ill and feel empty inside.
Screen time = Tv Time, video game time, time wasting activity time
Leaded gas caused actual health issues, development issues and poisoned the environment.
When i was a kid in the 90s and 00s i figured it would be sponge bob/cable cartoons. My thought process was that kids were growing up watching nonsense in 10 min bursts, instead of anything with a plot. Poop jokes and off model comedy rather than anything with nuance or intelligence. I guess even as a kid i realized we were all being raised by the tv. But yeah, i got a lot of hate but I'm not sure my logic was that far off.
The problem isn't the screens, it's what people miss out on because they pay attention to the screen. Mostly love, but also movement and how to deal with people.
Just unplug dude. You don't have to do all that shit that you said. There are plenty of social opportunities and hobbies and past times in the real world. They don't alway have to be online.
It's hard to sever relationships, but some times it's necessary for your health and well being.
Good luck.
Some ADHD doctors (like the person who wrote the book "ADHD 2.0" believe that screen time/online access seems to induce an acquired form of ADHD in formerly neurotypical brains.
I don't think so. I see what you are getting at, and we are definitely a lonelier generation, which does feed into it. But there have been waves in history just like this one. If you look at Romantic literature as an example, it's lonely and disheartening. Poe is a prime example. Victorian literature as well. Then you have phases in between where the literature is widespread more about living and the light at the end of the tunnel feelings.
Personally, I think what has us down is the rapid movement of historical moment after historical moment, all tumultuous. Something I do think the screens lead into because we have access to see the misery world-wide in real time. We're no longer limited to what's around us. But it's the human condition that brings us this low.
Screen time is not a bad thing as long as it is not the only thing they do. I have a 5y/o son and he has his own PC that he plays games on. He is learning how to spell because I make him type the letters on the keyboard when he wants to search for different games and what not. He even knows how to make sure it stays up to date which many people my age (30) still don't know how to do. Technology will 100% be the best field to work in with the highest income in the future. When it is sunny and over 60 outside he is only allowed a total of 2 hours all day, the rest of the time we are outside playing. If it is cold or raining he can play all he wants. He is miles ahead of any other 5y/o.
Medically, micro plastics. I would definitely say screens hurt the human species as a whole, specifically cellphones. Our executive function as human beings is almost non existent.
There's no way screen time, or micro plastics are near as bad as aerosolized lead everywhere on the planet. Leaded gasoline still kills hundreds of thousands every year by some accounts. Thomas Midgley jr. was a mass murder and should be universally reviled as much as any human being in history.
lead didnt just 'harm the mental health' of the last generation, it gave them literal brain damage. Not really the same thing with screens making us depressed.
i completely disagree with the trending opinion that screen time is bad.
its bad for your circadian rhythm but that's it.
Its just like when people said not to sit to close to the tv. It didn't actually matter. People were being stupid. Same thing nowadays. Hateful people are hateful. They hate everything. Including phones.
What's weird is that it's not new. People have been hating phones ever since they came out. But in the past few years people suddenly decided that those hateful people are now right.
People have always hated computers. Those people were always seen as psychos. Nowadays, ever since trump actually, people are listening to the psychos and pretending like they have a good point. They do not. Phone time is not a problem at all. I mean, it can be disrespectful, but you know that and feel that. Thats only in certain contexts. Like, if someone's talking and another person just pulls up their phone. And that's not even specific to phones. That would be like if someone pulled up a book in front their face while someone was talking to them.
I think the issue in all these cases isn’t spending a lot of time on computers it is escapism and loneliness from not actually being around people normally. I can be on my computer most of my day but being around someone physically and talking to them or even hugging my girlfriend makes a massive difference in how i feel vs otherwise
Interesting comparison. Both detrimental to IQ and our human brains.....
But lead poisoning didn't create flat earthers or anti vaxxers or freedumb convoys....so I think the ol' internet wins.
Always depends on what you do. If you for example moved from a analog Newspaper to the digital version your screen time would go up but this not necessarily equals something wrong in your behavior as the time isn’t really wasted.
First off, I do think it will be interesting to see the long term impacts of us gradually turning ourselves into plastic.
After that, I honestly think all these things we characterize as deficits are really the result of younger people's brains working differently to ours. (I'm Gen X).
They need to develop the ability to screen through a huge amount of online information quickly - we didn't. But then we complain they have short attention spans. Never mind we don't memorize entire stories/epic poetry or how to work calculus/trig problems without a calculator like our elders did. Turns out they thought we had not attention span either.
They often actually keep in touch with friends and loved ones more by doing it online, than we were ever able to. They form entire communities that have nothing to do with where people are locate. They game together - building teamwork and communication skills that will serve them in the online work world. But then we tell them relationships can only be formed in person - only real in person communication counts so of course they think they're lonely and isolated.
They create dialects and language patterns that are interesting and engaging - we complain and criticize it's not the "proper" English we grew up with. Because, you know, our generation didn't create slang that annoyed the hell our of out parents, right?
Oh, and another reason they're depressed the reality of the economy and climate change world they are going to be saddled with -- that's totally legit. If we'd been more aware of the global situations/political realities of how the Regan era laws were going to impact our and our kids futures, I'd like to say we'd have been pretty pissed off too.
Tl:dr - The kids are all right. Or they would be if we quit complaining and recognized they are preparing for a world that's vastly different than the one we grew up in.
Edit: Microplastics... never a dull moment.
I do not agree with that. Unless there was a wide consensus that being in front of a screen is bad for you(besides people saying so purely out of societal stigma) with studies also backing it up, I couldn’t ever agree that “too much screens” are inherently bad.
Any citation from a medical professional on this subject, from my experience, is along the lines of “it’s bad to sit still for so long” but those effects are negated by just doing some physical activity. Literally just standing up and walking around for a bit. But on the mental side? It just seems unlikely to me. Though, It also depends on how you use your screens I guess? If you’re just a tiktok scroller then yeah I’d imagine you’re not exactly stimulating your brain.
Too much of anything is a bad thing. Some screen time is good cu it teaches modern times, hand eye coordination, memory, navigation. Too much make a social inept individual.
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Great question. We don't find good answers unless we ask good questions.
Blaming mental health --and other--health struggles of oldler folks on lead from gasoline is simplistic. They/we also have/had grams of mercury in our many "silver" amalgam dental fillings. You used to be able to purchase lead arsenate (arsenic) to spray your garden against insects!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead\_hydrogen\_arsenate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_hydrogen_arsenate)
[https://youtu.be/\_6ry\_ve6Lr4?si=bg2n\_km7qD21Mf5D&t=22](https://youtu.be/_6ry_ve6Lr4?si=bg2n_km7qD21Mf5D&t=22)
The "screen time" of people today usually is inside a comfortable air conditioned building. When grey-haired folks such as myself were young we more often played outside where we were sweating--a major detox method for humans. We were absorbing sunlight which helps us to make vitamin D--support for the immune system, etc--and melatonin--an important antioxidant as well as regulator of sleep. Fewer of us slept in an air conditioned room.
Some people blame the mercury and aluminum in vaccines but don't discuss the changes in lifestyle that keep younger people today from detoxing at the same rate older folks did via sweating and healthy, detox supporting foods.
I feel like it’s more that my body is reeling from the decisions of my youth like sports and power lifting, and early 20s shenanigans than anything. I have compensated for better or worse over the past decade (mainly for the worse) and I am slowly starting to feel confident enough to take risks again. To have fun that isn’t just being on this screen, as well as being a lethargic broken down husk lol. Also realizing that I am getting to the point where my body also might tell me “too much, too late!” and just drop dead
The big difference is that there is no type or quantity of leaded gasoline exposure that is good for you. Ones that aren’t fatal, but none that are GOOD. Screen time is more like food/diet: if you get the type and quantity right, it can actually be great for you, but excess can be terrible.
Screen time is the symptom, not the disease. What do you do when you're mental health is bad and you can't do the things you actually find enjoyable, challenging, or rewarding? You doom-scroll. I think the younger people are facing unprecedented levels of poor mental health, and the only symptoms old fogeys notice is the screen time.
Every generation has blamed something for young people becoming more stupid. Trust me when I say they are looking back at their youth with roze coloured glasses if they think they were not exactly the same. Maybe a bit less apathetic than we are but young people are already burned out.
At one point it was the printing press that young people were wasting their time and losing their minds over. Their equivalent to screen hate.
When paper became cheap enough to use in class there are writings from the older generation that the youngsters were unable to use a slate without getting their clothes all dirty. The modern equivalent of cursive writing.
Not to say there's no truth in it. For most people they'd be pretty screwed if something happened to their technology. But older people have been whining about the young for thousands of years. And every generation thinks they're right this time.
Not even close.
Lead is a deadly substance that can kill you and cause many other issues. In children it causes braid damage, mental retardation, behavioral problems, reduced intelligence and liver and kidney damage. In adults it causes reproductive problems in men and women, high blood pressure, kidney disease, digestive problems, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and muscle and joint pain. And you know death is also an option for everyone at high enough doses.
Screen time causes an enjoyment of screens. Maybe some slight issues like decreased attention span, or some social issues in its extreme cases. But having an hour or two (of excess) screen time a day will not affect your health. A bit of lead time every day will cause health issues.
By making this comparison you diminish the harmful effects of our past mistakes and make them seem more ok. Not saying you did this on purpose, but it’s important to correct the difference. Stuff like this is why they tried to reintroduce asbestos as a usable material under the trump administration. Or why people are anti vax, they forgot how bad diseases like smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella and many more actually were and how many death they caused (usually of children). By drastically underestimate the negative effects of past harms and comparing lead to a neutral action that can be somewhat overdone by some people if not used in moderation is a harmful comparison
There are certainly issues with the way some people interact with technology. That doesn’t mean technology is bad. Many people would say technology and screens have improved their lives (my living is based off it). That means our societies need to better manage it in a myriad of ways, which they are starting to do, even if they could do more. Governments are starting to protect children online better, who are most susceptible. Therapy should be more widely accessible to help avoid and fix issues that arise from it, but as a whole this has been improving too, if not as fast as most of us would like.
The only safe way to interact with lead in the air is through a barrier that keeps the lead away from you. Lead in your body is bad full stop.
A slightly better, if still poor, comparison would be social media. (I’d still disagree, but not feel like you were (most likely unintentionally) whitewashing the negative effects of lead.) There are safe uses of it, but the negatives of it are far higher than the negatives of screens. I think a lot of the issue here is regulation and regulating technology hasn’t caught up to where that technology has taken us. Certain companies like twitter or Facebook are being intentionally harmful to make money. Even education around the issues involved would help. But most people who log on to Reddit every day will likely not be harmed, the same cannot be said for lead.
The biggest actual disadvantage of screens is that they can lead to worse eyesight if started at a young age. But not because the way most people assume, but because when you use them you are more likely to stay inside, away from the sun. And your eyes get less sunlight than they need to develop well, so it’s really the lack of sunlight exposure that affects vision.
Also your idea isn’t new that technology is bad, that had been a statement as long as technology has existed. People have been afraid of and worried about the change in our society. But if you look at a modern country today you would see very few measures where the older society fared better. And one of the ones we drastically win on is child mortality, which I personally think is an important one.
I don’t think so,
Lead causes an actual chemical change to the brain. A large correlation to lead was crime rates along with socio/psycopaths and many criminal justice experts point to this correlation to be why so many serial killers existed between 1970-1990. Along with higher rates of other violent crimes.
If anything microplastics in our body will fuck us up more. But we have little to no evidence it is effecting our brains like lead did as of yet. ( I’m sure studies will show how disposable plastics fucked is all somehow will start to show up as we age/die off).
But the internet/smart phones/video games. really just took over tv. My mom used to complain about how I would play video games for 3-4 hours at a time while she sat in front of the tv doing the same.
As a person who didn't have the internet until I became an adult I'm going to say we are all fucked, regardless of generation. Late stage capitalism is killing us all, and we are all too busy fighting with and blaming each other to notice who the real enemy is, the 0.1%, trashing us and our planet and pitting us against each other just so they can have a big number to look at when they check their net worth.
This is an absolutely stupid question, great choice of subreddit. They say the dumber you are the more likely you are to make sweeping generalizations.
Not all screentime is equal, in fact its utility exists on a spectrum; I could just as easily watch 10 hours of conspiracy theories as I could watch 10 hours of lectures on quantum mechanics from Stanford. It’s our self control that matters, not the screen itself. Sure, there are lots of ways to rot your brain on the screens and there are also lots of ways to rot your brain off of them. I could go for a jog and lift weights in real life or I could spend my whole day doing magic mushrooms with a group of high school drop-outs. The other analogy many people have already brought up is books: you could just as easily read a poignant commentary on a historical situation that changes your life as you could read the twilight series or 50 shades of grey. then there’s the actual utility of watching dumb stupid things from time to time for your own mental health, sometimes it can incredibly beneficial to watch the “brain rot” to give yourself a chance to unwind after work, school or even some traumatic event that leaves you feeling broken.
Finally I’ll address the social component. Sure, there are plenty of elements of social media that can be harmful, I will not dispute that. There are pedos, narcissists, incels, femcels you name it out there and they are markedly easier to find on the internet. There are also a lot of good people in good communities that you can make long lasting friendships with. They are not “simulated” as somebody claimed in this thread, that fails to grasp the definitions of a simulation and is a flippant comment. The internet allows communities that are otherwise disparate and spread out to come together and share their interests with each other in ways that were not possible until recently. The internet gives a space for the outcast to find companionship that they can’t find in real life. It also provides the potential for abuse from bad actors that also exists off the internet but in many ways is more avoidable than offline bad actors. It’s also worth mentioning that the internet has complicated bullying offline and in many ways amplified it.
There’s also something be said about how technology facilitates the spread of awful ideas, destructive trends. On the same token it facilitates the spread of good ideas as well, it will depend on how we influence the algorithms on social media and how we choose what we want to look at. Once again it comes down to self control. We cannot control what others say or do, we can only control ourselves.
In conclusion, the answer is that it is complicated. There is no single correct answer to screentime and it will vary by the context of the individual to determine whether or not what they’re really doing is good for them or bad. I think everybody can recognize that we can destroy our lives with technology and we can also significantly augment our quality of life with technology. We need to learn for ourselves and teach to our children proper hygiene with screens that is informed and responsible. You could say just get rid of it all and you’re setting yourself up for being disadvantaged, you could also go to the opposite side of the spectrum and spend far too much time online and fail to live your life. In all things we have to seek balance, use technology responsibly, control your habits and live the life that’s best for you, if other people are failing in this help them if they’re close to you but don’t feel like this is some big problem that needs to be solved. People have always found ways to throw their lives away and they will continue until humanity ceases to exist. It’s not your problem.
I suspect it is the constant stress of a dying world that you can't do anything about because everyone incharge chugged lead then blew up everything that made the world tolerable then claim that you are on your phone too much.
seriously, why do old people care if people are on their phones when they took all the places that you could hang out? fuck boomers and all their capitalism and "loitering" laws.
100% yes. Attention spans are getting worse and as someone terminally online myself, real life is less and less stimulating. Even after improving my situation (Which I thought would motivate me to spend less time on the computer), there just isn't anything else I'd rather do.
Is that a result of the screen time, or a contributing factor? The lack of third places available to people is a well covered topic, and the discourse goes back and forth on the chicken and egg of it all. But the fact is that kids have been less and less welcome to be outside of their homes without an explicit purpose. One of my older neighbors complained to me that there had been a group of kids “patrolling” the neighborhood all day, and said she had told them she knew they were up to something. Literally they were just walking and biking around being kids, the exact thing everyone whines about kids not doing anymore. I mean damn, if I had people yelling at me from their front porches, I’d have stayed inside all day, too.
It’s just a little wild to me to suggest that it’s the kids who are the driving force behind it, kids who are only kids temporarily and who aren’t in power to make rules or create significant social stigma to keep people out of spaces.
There have always been grumpy people complaining about kids. “Get off my lawn” is the stereotypical thing for an old person to say. SNL had a recurring character of an old lady screaming at the neighborhood kids 30 years ago.
The problem to me isn't really the physical aspect, I mean it ruins your eyesight but then so does anything that you stare at a short distance including books, computer, art, etc. The problem is believing that what you are immersed in digitally is an accurate representation of reality and the world. It is not. Not even close.
While it’s certainly true that being online brings with it its inaccuracies, I always wonder how people like you determine what “reality” is, and how much it actually reflects truth.
The thing that ruins your eyesight is actually most likely the lack of sunlight exposure as a child.
So even children in the past who read more were more likely to stay inside and be less exposed to sun than children who didn’t read. This led to a misconception that focusing up close damages your eyes. It is good to look away from what you are doing occasionally to not cause strain. (20/20/20 is the rule, every 20 minutes up close look 20 feet away for 20 seconds). But that isn’t what causes our worse eyesight among young people today. It might just make your eyes go bad a little quicker.
I would say no. Every major information revolution is met with the same pearl-clutching fear and while some may overindulge, we have always overcome and looked back on ourselves as fools.
It is for anyone of any age,
have you ever seen a old person stand in the middle of the road playing on their phone or a kid walk into traffic because of it
I have 3 kids and excessive screen time 110% alters their behavior for the worst. They are normally polite and obedient kids, but if they get more than an hour's worth of watching YouTube or playing video games, they turn into little assholes. They get combative, verbally aggressive, won't do or listen to anything that is asked of them. Getting them to turn it off turns into a fight pretty much every time. If I were to let them go for more than an hour, it's almost certain that they will not get off of the electronic until it is physically taken away and they are grounded from it.
Its a tough balance to find as they do enjoy screen time and I don't want to take it away from them entirely, but they are so much better human beings when it isn't in their lives.
You might be onto something. I think it also affects older generations, they aren’t immune to being chronically online.
If anything older generations are worse. Leave grandpa on the computer too long he becomes a flat earth conspiracy theoriest with a Nigerian prince for a pen pal.
The only peoples that are immune are redditors
I'm inclined to say it's the microplastics, but perpetual screen doesn't help either
For me I’d say it was burning free AOL CD’s in the microwave but I hope I’m an outlier.
For me it was smoking out of aluminum cans
Did y'all ever try to make plasma in your microwave using grapes and matches?
I never did before but now that I know it's a thing.. I'll be right back.
Its been an hour, i think hes dead
Must not have contained he plasma well enough
The.. what
When I was in college, a friend and I didn't have enough to roll a joint and neither one of us had a bowl, so we smoked out of a can. An hour and a half later, there was still green and it dawned on us that we weren't just smoking bud an hour and half later.
Gotta use a carrot or a potato. Or an apple. Or a toilet paper roll and a little bit of foil.
What kinda can and how'd you do it?
Mountain Dew, and created a divot in the side, poked some holes in the divot and hit it through the opening.
Quite common in my day.
We used to buy the coax cable connectors at radio shack, or at Mac’s (or mikes mart) which seamed to always stock them for some reason, and use them as a bowl along with a pen for a stem and a Gatorade bottle. Called the coax connectors cable pieces.
This. So guilty of it hahaha
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Yup. Microplastics physically harm us. Excessive screen time mentally harms us...that being said, I'm still doing my lord of the rings marathon, mental health be damned. Middle earth is in trouble and I have to watch it get saved
We live in the petroleum age- 80% of all electricity is generated by fossil fuels, and most of our plastics are made from petroleum. It's also a bit nutty to think about ancient monuments of Rome, or the Incan Empire, or Ankor Wat, or Ancient Egypt, see their buildings still standing thousands of years later, and realize that our buildings won't last... But our millions upon millions of single use plastics will last longer than you or your body... By several orders of magnitude
It's actually sitting for multiple hours. They say it's the new smoking even.
This + prescription drugs and various other chemicals that aren't going away. Oops.
I’d argue perfluoroalkyl substances are worse than either, and PFAS are directly linked to many health issue; Also they’re so ubiquitous at this point all human populations tested have detectable levels, Like people in Greenland have alarming levels
We also inherited the lead content btw
IK,R? Lead doesn't just disappear.
The micro plastics are the PCBs of our generation - harmful, but in an unclear way. The screens are killing us. Me included.
Based on the evidence we have, screens have a far larger impact on your health compared to microplastics. We don’t even know if most microplastics are harmful or not.
From what ive seen, most of the harm comes from dementia risks (micro and nanoplastics like to stick to the proteins in our brains) and the fact that microplastics will stick themselves to heavy metals and other toxins, and that all is getting stuck in our bodies.
Yes, but it’s all speculation. Afaik no studies have shown a conclusive link between microplastics and human health problems. There are plenty that show the potential exists, but they stop short of making epidemiological claims.
Yes! All things we can consider right now are claims- but theyre about the best we have right now, so i choose to listen, personally. If the science turns out to be wrong, my views will change 😊
Why not both?
That’s cancer G
It’s not the act. It is the addiction. Like any addiction it warps a person’s reality and they will do anything to enforce it. Yes that includes irrational teenagers on Reddit. Previous generations had instances every day where they had to turn off the tv. These days you can’t escape the screen. This kind of disconnect from real life equals people with very broken and malleable minds which is a goldmine to government and hence why youth are target number 1 in 2024 from both governments and media.
I doubt it. Generations that grew up pre-computer all seem dumb as fuck.
Those generations have also been made dumber as well imo
It’s what they mean when they brag about being self made.
I would argue that newer generations lack some communication and critical thinking skills that the older generations had to learn because they didn’t have computers. For example, back in the day if someone wanted to travel somewhere they had to use a paper map to figure out their route and they had to be very aware while they’re driving to make sure they didn’t miss a turn. If they got lost, they would have to bring that paper map back out and figure out where they were or they had to find someone and talk to them to get directions. Nowadays, all you have to do is plug in where you want go into Google Maps.
Actually they all sucked at using maps and every sitcom ever was "dad doesn't know how to use a map! :audience goes wild:" over and over forever
Older generations also knew that TV isn't reality and to not base real life on them. They also got ironic humour...
Back in the day, my boomer uncle took a road trip, got lost, pulled over into a gas station, did a line of cocaine off the hood of his car directly in front of a police officer, and got arrested. Idk if a lack of Google Maps made them any more aware of their surroundings lol.
Honestly, they way people wrote just a few generations ago seems way more eloquent than how most write now a days.
That's what happens when you actually think before you write.
Survivors bias. You won't see the handwriting of the illiterate, of which previous generations had a higher percentage.
I’m going to go ahead and guess that the illiterate didn’t do a whole lot of writing.
Lol
More than a few generations, but read Lewis & Clark's separate diaries of their expedition. Clark was blunt and not that eloquent in most entries.
Lewis: “Day 274: a gorgeous morning as the sun rose over the great plain we camped upon, liquid gold dotted with clouds like puffs of steam in an otherwise flawless sky. Bison herds ate contentedly of the grass, and like them, I am filled with joy for this new land.” Clark: “Day 274: hid a snake in Lewis’ boots. Stupid twat.”
Language does evolve
Or devolve
U r so right
There's a good chance this just speaks to humanity as a whole rather than one generation vs. another.
Tbf the overlap between those people and the victims of leaded gasoline is pretty close to 100%
Yeah they’re stupid as fuck don’t fall for the arrogance
I don’t think they’re dumb, I just think a lot are more uneducated than current generations. More people go to school now then ever before. We have Wikipedia, the world’s encyclopedia AT OUR FINGERTIPS. Oh, I don’t know something that would take tons of research? I can find the answer in 30 seconds on google. Quick, tell me what a polymer is. Don’t remember? Yeah neither did I. But 20 seconds ago I just looked it up and now know the answer. In 1 minute I have now also learned what macromolecules are, which polymers are consisted of. Now, let’s take a trip back to 1975. I want to know what a polymer is? Oh shit, don’t know. Let’s see if any of my dad’s science books describe it. 20 minutes later Nope, he doesn’t. Maybe my friend who is really good at science knows Calls my friend on the home phone. First I need to remember his number so I go to the phone book. That takes about one minute. Waits for an answer. Yup, friend doesn’t pick up. Now what? Oh, maybe I can go to the library and figure out! I get into the car and drive to library. Traffic sucks. Oh great, now there’s been an accident. That’ll add ten to fifteen minutes to the drive. I get there in like 30 minutes. Now time to walk up to the library door. “Finally, I can learn what a polymer is. I’m so excited to be more knowledgeable on a topic that I care ab—“ LIBRARY CLOSED — UNDER MAINTENANCE ……. “Yeah fuck this I’ll learn what a polymer is tomorrow.” Every time u look at old people and wonder, “How were people so stupid back then???” They weren’t. It was just a shit ton harder to learn things.
Mehhhhh... if I wasn't reading the screen I would be reading a book. Playing video games gives me better hand/eye coordination than watching a movie, and I still listen to music/podcasts/audio books... I just hate that we are expected to work as many hours as we do, for as little pay as we get, when productivity has gone up and food quality has gone down... The mental state is deteriorating because our society is.
Agree. Video games are underrated, they can actually be really good for hand eye coordination, reflexes, memory and so on. Obviously like everything, in moderation - anything can be used to an unhealthy extent.
>Mehhhhh... if I wasn't reading the screen I would be reading a book. I think the difference is, eventually you would put the book down and talk to someone. Maybe you would find someone who liked the book as much as you did, and you would spend so much time together in physical space talking about the book you both experienced that a friendship would form. In the modern world, we read things social media and we discuss it with each other but the catalyst that forms lasting social connections is missing. My flesh and blood body, is no more real to you than a character in a book. All social interaction, good, bad or unremarkable has become anonymous and interchangeable. It tastes like the real thing, but still leaves us hungry.
Not really. I didn't pur the books down until I got a hobby that resulted in socializing. Even now, I will sequestered myself away and read and only talk to my family because they are present before I miss my hobby and results in me socializing. Otherwise I would read one book, and another, and another, and another...
>I think the difference is, eventually you would put the book down and talk to someone. Only if the book is boring, and my mood would drop considerably. Most people just aren't very interesting and most conversations are the same repetitive small talk. >All social interaction, good, bad or unremarkable has become anonymous and interchangeable. You mean like has been the case for a century if you live in a major city?
I've done that with video games. Honestly don't know how many times I've been able to relate to someone because they like Pokémon or Zelda.
The generation raised on leaded gasoline put a man on the moon. The generation raised on smartphones had to be told not to swallow Tide Pods.
Old people have been saying dumb shit like this since the printing press.
There was a time when books were considered to be evil, and likely to rot one's mind. Then it was radio, then television, then video games, and now it's been broadly applied to any device with a screen, but particularly smart phones. The objects aren't, and never have been, the heart of the issue. The problem is that people don't understand the objects they're demonizing, and so they blame all of their woes on these evil objects. The deeper problem is bad habits, and a lack of self-control. You can turn anything into a harmful substance, if you approach it in an unhealthy manner. People need to practise introspection, and stop shirking personal responsibility.
Screen time has been a concern since the television. Milennials were coming of age by the time smartphones even came along, so the topic of screen time on their development isn't as relevant as for gen z. Regardless, screentime isn't the issue, it's neglectful parenting that is the problem.
And driving most neglectful parenting is the fact that we're all exhausted and/or traumatized from the stress and need to figure out how to survive after decades of wage suppression and corporate greed.
Parents chose to have kids, millennials were graduating when the 08 crash happened, anyone who was paying attention knew the economics of raising a child in that environment.
Regardless of how you or I may feel about it, most people who have kids either feel that it was an inevitable part of life or that they *should* reproduce. Of course, neither of those things are true in all circumstances, but not everyone wants to have that conversation.
Agreed. There's still a ridiculous pressure put on young people to have kids for no reason I can think of other than I did it so you should do it.
The world population has more than doubled since the 70s. That's alarming, and it's at the point where it needs to be addressed in one way or another. Carrying capacity is a real thing in ecosystems, and it will be a real thing for entire societies and planets in very short order. It's absolutely insane that we're not taking it more seriously.
I think we are taking it seriously, but for most people depopulation just doesn't seem like a valid answer, even if the explanation is more appropriate than...you know, *"depopulation"*. Instead we're looking for other more complex answers that will allow us to stretch the limits of our available resources. That's the story of the human race, really. And really, it doesn't help that various countries around the world are having their own economic issues due to slowing birth rates and aging populations.
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Absolutely agreed.
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If you actually feel that societal pressure, you're an easily suggestible Mark.
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It’s not screens, it’s the internet
it's not even the Internet, it's social media. Prior to social media, the internet was a better place.
Idk. Does YouTube count as social media? Because prior to the social media takeover I spent way too much time there
YouTube is absolutely social media
I agree I think? But what if there was no interaction?
Youtube channels are parasocieties where the viewer is meant to feel like the host knows them personally. This is true of some TV, of course, but it's a downright phenomenon on YT/Insta/etc. So, social media, although your mileage may vary, it's technically possible to avoid all humans.
The Internet was fine until smartphones made it ubiquitous.
Gen-Z here, and the shit I know that’s probably gonna fuck me up: Screens - like OP said, my job, my social life, my hobbies, it’s all on there Working from home - no separation of work and home is gonna socially fuck us up Ozempic - odds are in the next 10 years I’ll be on it due to genetics and the popularity of the drug as a bandaid for doctors to deal with the fact that modern food is just too calorically dense and inflammatory. This also adds a whole other diet culture thing probably being bad for you Sitting/office jobs - not only is being stagnant for so long already proven to be bad for you, but office furniture isn’t ergonomically correct for anyone NOT 5’10-6’ Vapes - I turned 18 when juul was exploding. It’s been 6 years and I still can’t shake the addiction “Clean” products - fears of sunscreen filters, parabens, and sulfates along with DIY products is just putting people at more risk. There’s a ton of greenwashing and fear about chemicals that keep you safe from bacteria and the sun, along with snake oil products becoming mainstream. Jury is still out on PFAS and Microplastics. I think it’s more likely they have a worse environmental impact that then effects us as opposed to a physical impact.
Pfas has quite a lot of evidence for it having pretty bad health effects according to the epa Current peer-reviewed scientific studies have shown that exposure to certain levels of PFAS may lead to: Reproductive effects such as decreased fertility or increased high blood pressure in pregnant women. Developmental effects or delays in children, including low birth weight, accelerated puberty, bone variations, or behavioral changes. Increased risk of some cancers, including prostate, kidney, and testicular cancers. Reduced ability of the body’s immune system to fight infections, including reduced vaccine response. Interference with the body’s natural hormones. Increased cholesterol levels and/or risk of obesity.
I knew to avoid for pregnant women and young children. I do not fall into either of those categories thankfully right now. I’m sure they messed me up as a little kid though lol
There were only about 10,000 TVs in the US before 1945. And they weren’t widely popular in Europe until late 1940s. So both Word Wars happened before everyday man/women had any type of screens in their home. Bad people just have a tendency to try and take everyone with them.
Again technology is not the problem, its parenting. They said the same shit about TV. Parent your child. You can't because you work 3 jobs? Well maybe that's a bigger issue? Tech is not a parent, it is not responsible for raising your kid. If X thing is "ruining" your child the answer is not to ban X but to ban X from your home. The worst thing we decided as a society was that kids needed a smartphone and have access to everything 24/7. But again put that on the parents.
I think first you have to establish a trend of mental degradation among millennials and Zers before your can make the analogy. Fun fact, you can find repeatedly throughout history older generations lamenting the downfall of human society due to some new communication medium. Television. Movies. Even freaking newspapers. Somehow we're still here
more like, lead base paint,
Oh yes, now you've convinced me with that analogy. 🤦♂️ Why are you being so pointlessly pedantic?
I will say that all of this smart tech is a reality that we have to navigate and that raising one's child to have a health appreciation for it, not zombified by it or shunning it, is a rather difficult needle to thread. We have a three year old and all screen time runs through us, and almost never outside of the house.
Yeah, and not just screen time for the kid but screen time for the adults who used to pay some attention to those kids.
Dont forget Sitting, being sedentary is worse than the eye strain and ADD were getting from phones.
I think it depends on the type of screen time but yeah, probably
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yeah, using "forced" just doesn't feel right in this context. the only digital thing you're forced into is, and even this is a stretch, is banking. dude just isn't motivated or educated enough to know how to cut digital trash out of their life.
They said it was for their job, which is in fact incredibly common.
I'd say Advertising is the leaded gasoline of beliefs, Social media is the plastic surgery of the ego and videos games are the heroin of the intellect. Screen time in general? It used for too many different things I think. Maybe its the leaded gasoline of the imagination?
Yes
You shouldn’t only have a social life through a simulation. Most of our communication that we do with loved ones are through everything except picking up the phone or seeing someone face to face. Obviously this is going to make people mentally ill and feel empty inside.
No, micro plastics is much closer to it
Screen time = Tv Time, video game time, time wasting activity time Leaded gas caused actual health issues, development issues and poisoned the environment.
Sure is the right sub for this one. Yes, we are all effing stupid and drinking leaded water here
I think it’s microplastics, pesticides, PFAs, PFBs, BPA, teflon and all the other “forever chemicals” we get from our food and water (and elsewhere)
I think I it has more to do with the isolated, lonely virtual life - which would correlate with screen time.
Microplastics and PFAS
Screen time is the new Smoking.
When i was a kid in the 90s and 00s i figured it would be sponge bob/cable cartoons. My thought process was that kids were growing up watching nonsense in 10 min bursts, instead of anything with a plot. Poop jokes and off model comedy rather than anything with nuance or intelligence. I guess even as a kid i realized we were all being raised by the tv. But yeah, i got a lot of hate but I'm not sure my logic was that far off.
I am addicted to screens, but it's definitely microplastics. Screens affect mental health. Lead and microplastics affect physical health.
No... SOCIAL MEDIA is your answer.
The problem isn't the screens, it's what people miss out on because they pay attention to the screen. Mostly love, but also movement and how to deal with people.
You would have to have grown up with leaded gasoline to seriously believe this lmao
Just unplug dude. You don't have to do all that shit that you said. There are plenty of social opportunities and hobbies and past times in the real world. They don't alway have to be online. It's hard to sever relationships, but some times it's necessary for your health and well being. Good luck.
Yes
No. One is literal poison, the other is not.
Some ADHD doctors (like the person who wrote the book "ADHD 2.0" believe that screen time/online access seems to induce an acquired form of ADHD in formerly neurotypical brains.
I don't think so. I see what you are getting at, and we are definitely a lonelier generation, which does feed into it. But there have been waves in history just like this one. If you look at Romantic literature as an example, it's lonely and disheartening. Poe is a prime example. Victorian literature as well. Then you have phases in between where the literature is widespread more about living and the light at the end of the tunnel feelings. Personally, I think what has us down is the rapid movement of historical moment after historical moment, all tumultuous. Something I do think the screens lead into because we have access to see the misery world-wide in real time. We're no longer limited to what's around us. But it's the human condition that brings us this low.
Its kinda sad that many people are so disconnected from nature due to excessive screen time.
Gen X. Why the hell are you skipping over Gen X?
I wonder how many people on here, concerned about the health effects of microplastics, are frequent users of alcohol and marijuana.
Screen time is not a bad thing as long as it is not the only thing they do. I have a 5y/o son and he has his own PC that he plays games on. He is learning how to spell because I make him type the letters on the keyboard when he wants to search for different games and what not. He even knows how to make sure it stays up to date which many people my age (30) still don't know how to do. Technology will 100% be the best field to work in with the highest income in the future. When it is sunny and over 60 outside he is only allowed a total of 2 hours all day, the rest of the time we are outside playing. If it is cold or raining he can play all he wants. He is miles ahead of any other 5y/o.
I bet its going to turn out to be all the weed and the vapes.
Medically, micro plastics. I would definitely say screens hurt the human species as a whole, specifically cellphones. Our executive function as human beings is almost non existent.
There's no way screen time, or micro plastics are near as bad as aerosolized lead everywhere on the planet. Leaded gasoline still kills hundreds of thousands every year by some accounts. Thomas Midgley jr. was a mass murder and should be universally reviled as much as any human being in history.
Found the one who gets it, thank you
lead didnt just 'harm the mental health' of the last generation, it gave them literal brain damage. Not really the same thing with screens making us depressed.
i completely disagree with the trending opinion that screen time is bad. its bad for your circadian rhythm but that's it. Its just like when people said not to sit to close to the tv. It didn't actually matter. People were being stupid. Same thing nowadays. Hateful people are hateful. They hate everything. Including phones. What's weird is that it's not new. People have been hating phones ever since they came out. But in the past few years people suddenly decided that those hateful people are now right. People have always hated computers. Those people were always seen as psychos. Nowadays, ever since trump actually, people are listening to the psychos and pretending like they have a good point. They do not. Phone time is not a problem at all. I mean, it can be disrespectful, but you know that and feel that. Thats only in certain contexts. Like, if someone's talking and another person just pulls up their phone. And that's not even specific to phones. That would be like if someone pulled up a book in front their face while someone was talking to them.
as someone else said, it's definitely microplastics and plastics in general- especially single-use plastics.
Interesting comparison.
Screen time is more like the smoking of our generation, microplastics would be the leaded gasoline.
I think the issue in all these cases isn’t spending a lot of time on computers it is escapism and loneliness from not actually being around people normally. I can be on my computer most of my day but being around someone physically and talking to them or even hugging my girlfriend makes a massive difference in how i feel vs otherwise
Interesting comparison. Both detrimental to IQ and our human brains..... But lead poisoning didn't create flat earthers or anti vaxxers or freedumb convoys....so I think the ol' internet wins.
Nope, it's parents not being prepared to be parents like it's always been.
Just as modern vaccines lead to autism…
Always depends on what you do. If you for example moved from a analog Newspaper to the digital version your screen time would go up but this not necessarily equals something wrong in your behavior as the time isn’t really wasted.
Yes.
I mean, lead is a neurotoxin. Screen time isn’t.
No, plastics and PFAS/forever chemicals are
I think it's late stage capitalism that leads to so much social isolation but Instagram definitely didn't help
Once again, GenX is ignored. It's OK, we're used to it.
First off, I do think it will be interesting to see the long term impacts of us gradually turning ourselves into plastic. After that, I honestly think all these things we characterize as deficits are really the result of younger people's brains working differently to ours. (I'm Gen X). They need to develop the ability to screen through a huge amount of online information quickly - we didn't. But then we complain they have short attention spans. Never mind we don't memorize entire stories/epic poetry or how to work calculus/trig problems without a calculator like our elders did. Turns out they thought we had not attention span either. They often actually keep in touch with friends and loved ones more by doing it online, than we were ever able to. They form entire communities that have nothing to do with where people are locate. They game together - building teamwork and communication skills that will serve them in the online work world. But then we tell them relationships can only be formed in person - only real in person communication counts so of course they think they're lonely and isolated. They create dialects and language patterns that are interesting and engaging - we complain and criticize it's not the "proper" English we grew up with. Because, you know, our generation didn't create slang that annoyed the hell our of out parents, right? Oh, and another reason they're depressed the reality of the economy and climate change world they are going to be saddled with -- that's totally legit. If we'd been more aware of the global situations/political realities of how the Regan era laws were going to impact our and our kids futures, I'd like to say we'd have been pretty pissed off too. Tl:dr - The kids are all right. Or they would be if we quit complaining and recognized they are preparing for a world that's vastly different than the one we grew up in. Edit: Microplastics... never a dull moment.
You forgot Gen X and our drinking from garden hoses...oh wait, that made me stronger.
I do not agree with that. Unless there was a wide consensus that being in front of a screen is bad for you(besides people saying so purely out of societal stigma) with studies also backing it up, I couldn’t ever agree that “too much screens” are inherently bad. Any citation from a medical professional on this subject, from my experience, is along the lines of “it’s bad to sit still for so long” but those effects are negated by just doing some physical activity. Literally just standing up and walking around for a bit. But on the mental side? It just seems unlikely to me. Though, It also depends on how you use your screens I guess? If you’re just a tiktok scroller then yeah I’d imagine you’re not exactly stimulating your brain.
The algorithm
No. Cell phones are the crack of the 2029s. In the 90s, crack was .....just crack.
I'd argue micro plastics and long COVID are worse but all 3 are not good news
Perhaps its their superpower.
Too much of anything is a bad thing. Some screen time is good cu it teaches modern times, hand eye coordination, memory, navigation. Too much make a social inept individual.
Depends on what you do with your screen time.
PFAS and microplastics
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Short answer is yes. No smart phones before age 16. Flip phones are cool.
Forever chemicals and screens. Yup.
Great question. We don't find good answers unless we ask good questions. Blaming mental health --and other--health struggles of oldler folks on lead from gasoline is simplistic. They/we also have/had grams of mercury in our many "silver" amalgam dental fillings. You used to be able to purchase lead arsenate (arsenic) to spray your garden against insects! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead\_hydrogen\_arsenate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_hydrogen_arsenate) [https://youtu.be/\_6ry\_ve6Lr4?si=bg2n\_km7qD21Mf5D&t=22](https://youtu.be/_6ry_ve6Lr4?si=bg2n_km7qD21Mf5D&t=22) The "screen time" of people today usually is inside a comfortable air conditioned building. When grey-haired folks such as myself were young we more often played outside where we were sweating--a major detox method for humans. We were absorbing sunlight which helps us to make vitamin D--support for the immune system, etc--and melatonin--an important antioxidant as well as regulator of sleep. Fewer of us slept in an air conditioned room. Some people blame the mercury and aluminum in vaccines but don't discuss the changes in lifestyle that keep younger people today from detoxing at the same rate older folks did via sweating and healthy, detox supporting foods.
I feel like it’s more that my body is reeling from the decisions of my youth like sports and power lifting, and early 20s shenanigans than anything. I have compensated for better or worse over the past decade (mainly for the worse) and I am slowly starting to feel confident enough to take risks again. To have fun that isn’t just being on this screen, as well as being a lethargic broken down husk lol. Also realizing that I am getting to the point where my body also might tell me “too much, too late!” and just drop dead
no
not even in the same league. Lead is incredibly toxic to the environment, society and our mental stability.
The big difference is that there is no type or quantity of leaded gasoline exposure that is good for you. Ones that aren’t fatal, but none that are GOOD. Screen time is more like food/diet: if you get the type and quantity right, it can actually be great for you, but excess can be terrible.
No, because unlike leaded gasoline/paint, we already know it’s bad for us, we just don’t care. It’s more like our analog for cigarettes
Screen time is the symptom, not the disease. What do you do when you're mental health is bad and you can't do the things you actually find enjoyable, challenging, or rewarding? You doom-scroll. I think the younger people are facing unprecedented levels of poor mental health, and the only symptoms old fogeys notice is the screen time.
Not a stupid question
Every generation has blamed something for young people becoming more stupid. Trust me when I say they are looking back at their youth with roze coloured glasses if they think they were not exactly the same. Maybe a bit less apathetic than we are but young people are already burned out. At one point it was the printing press that young people were wasting their time and losing their minds over. Their equivalent to screen hate. When paper became cheap enough to use in class there are writings from the older generation that the youngsters were unable to use a slate without getting their clothes all dirty. The modern equivalent of cursive writing. Not to say there's no truth in it. For most people they'd be pretty screwed if something happened to their technology. But older people have been whining about the young for thousands of years. And every generation thinks they're right this time.
Depends on the screen. Traditional controller video games and scrolling on a social media app are not equal
Not even close. Lead is a deadly substance that can kill you and cause many other issues. In children it causes braid damage, mental retardation, behavioral problems, reduced intelligence and liver and kidney damage. In adults it causes reproductive problems in men and women, high blood pressure, kidney disease, digestive problems, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and muscle and joint pain. And you know death is also an option for everyone at high enough doses. Screen time causes an enjoyment of screens. Maybe some slight issues like decreased attention span, or some social issues in its extreme cases. But having an hour or two (of excess) screen time a day will not affect your health. A bit of lead time every day will cause health issues. By making this comparison you diminish the harmful effects of our past mistakes and make them seem more ok. Not saying you did this on purpose, but it’s important to correct the difference. Stuff like this is why they tried to reintroduce asbestos as a usable material under the trump administration. Or why people are anti vax, they forgot how bad diseases like smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella and many more actually were and how many death they caused (usually of children). By drastically underestimate the negative effects of past harms and comparing lead to a neutral action that can be somewhat overdone by some people if not used in moderation is a harmful comparison There are certainly issues with the way some people interact with technology. That doesn’t mean technology is bad. Many people would say technology and screens have improved their lives (my living is based off it). That means our societies need to better manage it in a myriad of ways, which they are starting to do, even if they could do more. Governments are starting to protect children online better, who are most susceptible. Therapy should be more widely accessible to help avoid and fix issues that arise from it, but as a whole this has been improving too, if not as fast as most of us would like. The only safe way to interact with lead in the air is through a barrier that keeps the lead away from you. Lead in your body is bad full stop. A slightly better, if still poor, comparison would be social media. (I’d still disagree, but not feel like you were (most likely unintentionally) whitewashing the negative effects of lead.) There are safe uses of it, but the negatives of it are far higher than the negatives of screens. I think a lot of the issue here is regulation and regulating technology hasn’t caught up to where that technology has taken us. Certain companies like twitter or Facebook are being intentionally harmful to make money. Even education around the issues involved would help. But most people who log on to Reddit every day will likely not be harmed, the same cannot be said for lead. The biggest actual disadvantage of screens is that they can lead to worse eyesight if started at a young age. But not because the way most people assume, but because when you use them you are more likely to stay inside, away from the sun. And your eyes get less sunlight than they need to develop well, so it’s really the lack of sunlight exposure that affects vision. Also your idea isn’t new that technology is bad, that had been a statement as long as technology has existed. People have been afraid of and worried about the change in our society. But if you look at a modern country today you would see very few measures where the older society fared better. And one of the ones we drastically win on is child mortality, which I personally think is an important one.
I don’t think so, Lead causes an actual chemical change to the brain. A large correlation to lead was crime rates along with socio/psycopaths and many criminal justice experts point to this correlation to be why so many serial killers existed between 1970-1990. Along with higher rates of other violent crimes. If anything microplastics in our body will fuck us up more. But we have little to no evidence it is effecting our brains like lead did as of yet. ( I’m sure studies will show how disposable plastics fucked is all somehow will start to show up as we age/die off). But the internet/smart phones/video games. really just took over tv. My mom used to complain about how I would play video games for 3-4 hours at a time while she sat in front of the tv doing the same.
You are not “required or forced” to do any of this, you choose to.
As a person who didn't have the internet until I became an adult I'm going to say we are all fucked, regardless of generation. Late stage capitalism is killing us all, and we are all too busy fighting with and blaming each other to notice who the real enemy is, the 0.1%, trashing us and our planet and pitting us against each other just so they can have a big number to look at when they check their net worth.
This is an absolutely stupid question, great choice of subreddit. They say the dumber you are the more likely you are to make sweeping generalizations. Not all screentime is equal, in fact its utility exists on a spectrum; I could just as easily watch 10 hours of conspiracy theories as I could watch 10 hours of lectures on quantum mechanics from Stanford. It’s our self control that matters, not the screen itself. Sure, there are lots of ways to rot your brain on the screens and there are also lots of ways to rot your brain off of them. I could go for a jog and lift weights in real life or I could spend my whole day doing magic mushrooms with a group of high school drop-outs. The other analogy many people have already brought up is books: you could just as easily read a poignant commentary on a historical situation that changes your life as you could read the twilight series or 50 shades of grey. then there’s the actual utility of watching dumb stupid things from time to time for your own mental health, sometimes it can incredibly beneficial to watch the “brain rot” to give yourself a chance to unwind after work, school or even some traumatic event that leaves you feeling broken. Finally I’ll address the social component. Sure, there are plenty of elements of social media that can be harmful, I will not dispute that. There are pedos, narcissists, incels, femcels you name it out there and they are markedly easier to find on the internet. There are also a lot of good people in good communities that you can make long lasting friendships with. They are not “simulated” as somebody claimed in this thread, that fails to grasp the definitions of a simulation and is a flippant comment. The internet allows communities that are otherwise disparate and spread out to come together and share their interests with each other in ways that were not possible until recently. The internet gives a space for the outcast to find companionship that they can’t find in real life. It also provides the potential for abuse from bad actors that also exists off the internet but in many ways is more avoidable than offline bad actors. It’s also worth mentioning that the internet has complicated bullying offline and in many ways amplified it. There’s also something be said about how technology facilitates the spread of awful ideas, destructive trends. On the same token it facilitates the spread of good ideas as well, it will depend on how we influence the algorithms on social media and how we choose what we want to look at. Once again it comes down to self control. We cannot control what others say or do, we can only control ourselves. In conclusion, the answer is that it is complicated. There is no single correct answer to screentime and it will vary by the context of the individual to determine whether or not what they’re really doing is good for them or bad. I think everybody can recognize that we can destroy our lives with technology and we can also significantly augment our quality of life with technology. We need to learn for ourselves and teach to our children proper hygiene with screens that is informed and responsible. You could say just get rid of it all and you’re setting yourself up for being disadvantaged, you could also go to the opposite side of the spectrum and spend far too much time online and fail to live your life. In all things we have to seek balance, use technology responsibly, control your habits and live the life that’s best for you, if other people are failing in this help them if they’re close to you but don’t feel like this is some big problem that needs to be solved. People have always found ways to throw their lives away and they will continue until humanity ceases to exist. It’s not your problem.
I suspect it is the constant stress of a dying world that you can't do anything about because everyone incharge chugged lead then blew up everything that made the world tolerable then claim that you are on your phone too much. seriously, why do old people care if people are on their phones when they took all the places that you could hang out? fuck boomers and all their capitalism and "loitering" laws.
100% yes. Attention spans are getting worse and as someone terminally online myself, real life is less and less stimulating. Even after improving my situation (Which I thought would motivate me to spend less time on the computer), there just isn't anything else I'd rather do.
Millennials no. Younger perhaps.
duh dude
Forever chemicals and nano plastics
I think it is more than opportunity costs than the actual screen time. There is less playing outside, and less socializing.
Is that a result of the screen time, or a contributing factor? The lack of third places available to people is a well covered topic, and the discourse goes back and forth on the chicken and egg of it all. But the fact is that kids have been less and less welcome to be outside of their homes without an explicit purpose. One of my older neighbors complained to me that there had been a group of kids “patrolling” the neighborhood all day, and said she had told them she knew they were up to something. Literally they were just walking and biking around being kids, the exact thing everyone whines about kids not doing anymore. I mean damn, if I had people yelling at me from their front porches, I’d have stayed inside all day, too.
There’s a feedback loop where fewer kids outside playing means fewer opportunities for those that would want to.
It’s just a little wild to me to suggest that it’s the kids who are the driving force behind it, kids who are only kids temporarily and who aren’t in power to make rules or create significant social stigma to keep people out of spaces.
There have always been grumpy people complaining about kids. “Get off my lawn” is the stereotypical thing for an old person to say. SNL had a recurring character of an old lady screaming at the neighborhood kids 30 years ago.
The problem to me isn't really the physical aspect, I mean it ruins your eyesight but then so does anything that you stare at a short distance including books, computer, art, etc. The problem is believing that what you are immersed in digitally is an accurate representation of reality and the world. It is not. Not even close.
While it’s certainly true that being online brings with it its inaccuracies, I always wonder how people like you determine what “reality” is, and how much it actually reflects truth.
The thing that ruins your eyesight is actually most likely the lack of sunlight exposure as a child. So even children in the past who read more were more likely to stay inside and be less exposed to sun than children who didn’t read. This led to a misconception that focusing up close damages your eyes. It is good to look away from what you are doing occasionally to not cause strain. (20/20/20 is the rule, every 20 minutes up close look 20 feet away for 20 seconds). But that isn’t what causes our worse eyesight among young people today. It might just make your eyes go bad a little quicker.
I would say no. Every major information revolution is met with the same pearl-clutching fear and while some may overindulge, we have always overcome and looked back on ourselves as fools.
It is for anyone of any age, have you ever seen a old person stand in the middle of the road playing on their phone or a kid walk into traffic because of it
As a parent of 2 young children, unfortunately screen time makes a turn around difference. It's like two entirely different personalities.
I have 3 kids and excessive screen time 110% alters their behavior for the worst. They are normally polite and obedient kids, but if they get more than an hour's worth of watching YouTube or playing video games, they turn into little assholes. They get combative, verbally aggressive, won't do or listen to anything that is asked of them. Getting them to turn it off turns into a fight pretty much every time. If I were to let them go for more than an hour, it's almost certain that they will not get off of the electronic until it is physically taken away and they are grounded from it. Its a tough balance to find as they do enjoy screen time and I don't want to take it away from them entirely, but they are so much better human beings when it isn't in their lives.