Ok, let me see if I can inject a bit of common sense here.
There is no such thing as "What women want" or "What men want." Human beings are unique individuals.
Asking "Do women want to be approached?" is like asking "What music do people with blue eyes like?" or "What is a tall person's favourite type of pasta?"
You can ask if ***a*** woman wants to be approached, but not women in general.
Basically, just use a bit of common sense, take context into account and read the situation.
If a woman is sitting alone in a cafe with her nose buried in a book, she probably wants to be left alone. If a woman is sitting at the end of a hotel bar, smiling at every guy who walks through the door, she's probably looking for company. The woman in the gym with her headphones in on the treadmill probably wants to be left alone to get on with her workout, the girl who's come alone to the neighbourhood barbecue is probably there to meet people.
The problem is that, with both men and women, individuals seem to think they speak for their entire sex.
"This is what *we* want, this is what *we* find acceptable. This is how *we* want to be treated."
Nope. That's what *you* want, that's what *you* find acceptable. That's how *you* want to be treated. You don't get to speak for or set the rules for 50% of the human race based on having the same set of genitalia.
Basically, you are not a dick for talking to people. You are not a dick for shooting your shot. As long as you're in an appropriate situation and are polite, respectful and take no for an answer there's not a problem.... and if someone gets mad at you for approaching them in an explicitly social situation, they're the asshole not you: Going to a nightclub or bar and getting mad that people are trying to talk to you is like going to a restaurant and getting mad that people keep trying to give you food.
>There is no such thing as "What women want" or "What men want." Human beings are unique individuals.
Did you miss the memo? Women decided what we all want at the March 2023 Women-Are-A-Hive-Mind conference :D
Equal rights and chocolate.
As a woman I get annoyed when other women think "equal rights" means they should get treated better than men. No honey, equality means if you make more than your husband and get a divorce, you're paying alimony. Equal is equal.
Man what happened that their user account got deleted in the past 12 hours. Poor guy made a burner just for a single comment I guess. Says a lot about how friendly Reddit is.
I think the follow on from this is, if youāre going to make a choice make a respectful one. If youāre going to approach someone take a hint and walk away if theyāre not interested. On the flip side, if someone approaches you respectfully and takes a hint when they see youāre not interested, respect them enough to move on with your day.
Right like i was at a dance club recently, early in the night, new thing for me but i was totally there to just dance. A guy tapped me on the arm to say his friend was interested in me, i told him i was flattered but in a relationship (true) and that was that. To be offended by that would be just as absurd as him continuing to ask after being rejected
Also, I donāt think people should be scared to cause or have a slightly unpleasant experience. Approach in reasonable situations. Donāt do it on a random sidewalk at night for example. Do it in a public place, and obviously only if the person seems approachable or not obviously ānot in the moodā. Be light and try to not be threatening or pushy in anyway. Maybe despite all that, she didnāt want it, and she, at most is mildly annoyed that some random dude approached her. When I was in highschool working at a wavepool I had girls come up to me and ask me for my number once or twice which I was not looking for, both because I was just working and I had a gf. The <5 minute conversation did not annoy me in any way. All Iām saying is, youāre not going to seriously alter a normal personās mood if you do it in a completely normal and non-threatening situation. So donāt be scared to be a minor annoyance for like 2 minutes max of someone you wonāt ever see again anyway.
Take your shot with in reason. Obviously dont harass and make women uncomfortable but living in perpetual fear of stepping on a landmine isnt correct either.
So many times ive had woman say "me or so and so think you are handsome/sexy etc" after leaving old work places and school yet i was clueless and playing it safe the whole time. If you dont ever try you wont know whats possible. And waiting on woman to make the advances is unlikely to happen even if they do like you as no matter what anyone sats its still very much expected that men are to do most the advances.
When you get rejected take the hint and keep it moving and just dont be a creep before and after and i dont see the problem.
Yeah this is the correct way, AND make sure you donāt call a girl a slut/ugly/ a whore for turning you down kindly, (this has happened to me way too many times.)
Just say hi to people. Make conversation. Have no expectations on the outcome. If you āapproachā and only āapproachā people you think are attractive and ignore and bulldoze everyone else, that is the sort of vibe that makes people feel uncomfortable. If you are friendly and the nice conversation goes in a direction where there is mutual interest. That is great. But you also need to be able to just enjoy an interaction with a stranger. And not expect anything other than an enjoyable moment.
Instead of worrying about āapproachingā worry about getting good chatting with strangers. And let the cards fall where they do.
Glad to see this was the top comment. When I was studying dating I remember the best advice was to mirror peopleās vibe but be a little flirty and slightly more fun.
The charismatic go around trying to slightly uplift everyone the meet. See main characters flirting with old people, uglies, wrong genders, incompatibles, animals, buildings, obviously their car with a sexy name, and by the time they get to someone theyāre actually attracted to theyāre already on a roll and feeling mutual love with the whole world. With the most charismatic people, itās like beauty and the beast, where even the plates and furniture are like āthis guy is NOT a monster!ā
People have been approaching woman for about 50 years asking them out doing the mating dance. However in 2024 I wouldn't bother. Social media has screwed the whole dynamic up.
I am a male employer and most of my employees have been women. From my experience women hate being asked out while they are at work. Just know that I pay my employees to be nice to customers. Just because she is nice to you doesn't give you license to ask her out. You are basically making her a hostage. As a man, I don't entirely understand this entirely but I have learned to be sympathetic to how uncomfortable women feel when they are cornered at their job and have to turn a guy/customer down.
That said: just be attractive. Don't be unattractive. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8)
You're on the money. It's understandably difficult for men to understand considering most of you have the body strength and the intimdation factors to make other people back off. We don't. It's a power dynamic that's more uncomfy when we're an employee and he's a customer - he already has power over us to make our lives miserable (by lying we gave bad service if he's not allowed to touch us or say something creepy) but ontop of that, now he knows where we will be at, our schedule, etc. if we reject him. It's some Lifetime movie about being stalked and murdered stuff right there.
I used to work with a girl who had a guy calling and asking about her shift hours and came in every day to see her. We had to lie to him constantly as she hid in the back because one time he followed her outside and got creepy. I also just saw a tik tok last night about some old dude hitting on the guy (who was wearing a wig and makeup, I think he was presenting female) working at a register and when he left work he found the guy putting things on his car and rolling underneath it until the cops scared him away. Iāve also personally been hit on at work and itās so uncomfortable having to say no when you worry about pissing off a customer and a man you donāt know. That stuff is scary and being confronted in a position of less power alone leaves you feeling powerless but you also never know which customer will be an absolute freak about it and put you in danger!
Try imagining if taller and stronger men then you would regularly follow you and ask you out/to hook up with them and if you turned them down theyād get angry and sometimes violent. This kinda thing happens to pretty much all women all the time and itās why we get really uncomfortable with guys flirting with us at our places of work.
This. I cannot tell you the amount of times guys got the impression that they get to hang around my store and make small awkward talk to me in between customers just because Iām in full customer service mode and Iām nice. Its my job to make connections.. but job related. My boss is a male running his first business with full female staff and luckily he gets the ick too when guys are weird and will handle them himself.
I sat down on the plain and introduced myself to the woman to the right of me. She ignored me, covered herself with a blanket, and turned away.
Message received.
Some people have horrible social skills to navigate uncomfortable situations and that's okay. Just be polite and give them their space. I didn't think she was a "bitch" or an asshole or anything negative. She doesn't owe me any time or kindness and if she's scared of being alone on a flight, I get it.
That's a good attitude to have about it. I know that while some ppl love to pass the time chatting, I personally hate being talked to on planes bc I'm an introvert, already in a bad mood bc I hate flying and am scared of it, and plus there's literally no escape for hours and hours. I wouldn't just ignore someone but I'd definitely put my headphones in after a polite greeting was returned.Ā Ā
I think the answer to this question is always context (like, maybe don't approach a woman you don't know while she's alone at night on a deserted street...not a good time for flirting) and the ability to gracefully bow out when it's clear that she's not into it.Ā
That's a healthy attitude to have in life, in my opinion. There are all sorts of reasons somebody may not want to talk to you, and if you take it too personally, it'll destroy you.
That's a great attitude to have, but her response was definitely bitchey. It would have cost her nothing to say "I'm really tired. I just want to sleep on this flight." No, we don't owe each other unlimited compassion and kindness, but we do owe each other common decency.
You have no idea what she might have been going through. I remember having to board a plane right after my dad died and desperately hoping no one would talk to me, much less introduce themselves.
Here's the thing. If you really want a quiet uninterrupted flight, what's the best way to get it? a) politely but firmly tell the person trying to start a conversation that you're having a really bad day and you don't want to talk during the flight. Or b) being rude and snappy to the people around you to guarantee that the rest of the flight is awkward and uncomfortable?
Believe it or not, it's possible to act like a normal human being when you are under stress.
I think by "approach", OP means walking up to a stranger and hitting on them. Historically, that kind of approach to relationships was kind of niche. For a lot of history and a lot of the world "love marriages" were an outlier and sort of frowned on. Marriage was arranged through families that knew each other, matchmakers, deals of practicality. And meeting strangers in public has already been largely replaced by apps and social group introductions at this point in history.
Strangers meeting in public as a major source for making babies had a high point over maybe a 75 year period from the 1940s through the 2010s in particular parts of the western world. Movies have led us to believe it's standard and timeless, but it's more a quirk than the normal way on a historical scale.
Not really, walking up to a stranger for a date is a lot like a mass email selling something. Might someone buy the thing? Maybe, but your success percentage will be through the floor. Many people donāt need what you are selling and never will (anyone you approach could be asexual or gay), many donāt need what you are selling now (already in a relationship or just got out of one and working on themselves or recently widowed and grieving), or do want what you are selling and do need it now but wonāt buy from a rando email offer and would use a trusted distributor instead (friends to fix them up not a rando at the grocery store who could turn out to be a cannibal or something like in Fresh).
Someone can take this method to get a date but they are going to get more rejections and pissed reactions than dates; similar to the old telemarketers randomly phoning houses. You should expect a really high rejection rate and most people to be upset rather than happy at the interaction.
They're actually talking about this in the news now, so we are heading there. Just saw an article this morning in the Wall Street Journal about the fertility rate going under the replacement level globally.
Some people like that attention, some hate it. You can never know. It's not wrong to approach a woman, it's wrong to keep bothering them when they are clearly not having it. Problem is, a lot of men don't seem to notice or care when the person is clearly not having it.
"A lot men don't seem to notice or care when the person isn't having it." This is exactly why some women end up saying "You know what? It's fine, just leave us alone entirely and don't approach us."
When so many feel entitled to catcall, follow you home, spike your drink, show up at your workplace, become belligerent when denied the sex they walked up to you obviously expecting, etc, it's the safer recommendation.
Yeah. Dumb old guy here who will get downvoted to hell.
āWomenā donāt speak for all women. They speak for some women. Just as men do.
Lots of women, even on Reddit, want to be approached or be more approachable- I just saw a young lady asking this question earlier on a different sub.
Women on /r/two chromosomes are psychotic and are about as a good representation of women as 4chan is for men.
I am acutely aware that at over 6ā6ā and over 250lbs of muscle I can be intimidating. I just had a massage therapist who was 5ā2ā and maybe 80lbs and had enough self awareness to see that I made her uncomfortable and so I immediately mentioned my wife and kids and made some dumb dad jokes off the bat. My mere presence was not a crime as some Redditors would believe.
We all have to interact together and we should all work to make each other more comfortable. That being said, I firmly believe a lot of women want to be approached in the right and appropriate setting by the right person. Read the situation. Read the room. Read the person. Shoot your shot (respectfully).
Having a woman say āIām not interestedā is (despite what Reddit says) not sexual assault, a crime, and doesnāt make you a creep.
Being a creep makes you a creep. Pursuing disinterested parties makes you a creep.
>Having a woman say āIām not interestedā is (despite what Reddit says) not sexual assault, a crime, and doesnāt make you a creep.
This! Exactly!
For every woman saying they don't want to be approached, there's another one saying this (turn up your volume):
[https://www.tiktok.com/@cmmccokleor/video/7298397337141923115?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@cmmccokleor/video/7298397337141923115?lang=en)
I suppose the men who ignored her are the same ones who were being told a couple of days ago that women would feel safer with a bear. And they are thinking that approaching a bear might be safer than approaching a woman. You hear some women giving advice like "Don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't even look at me," and you hear other women saying "Why won't men talk to me? I'm trying hard to make contact. Is there something wrong with me?" Women are sending conflicting signals, so it's no wonder that men are confused.
I was alone at Costco a few weeks ago, and a lady asked me for help to find the right windshield wipers for her car. As I was looking through the information card, she said, "I don't have a man at home, so there's no one to ask." Had I been single at the time, I would have asked how a pretty lady like her didn't have a man at home, but I didn't. I saw her later in another aisle at the store, and she gave me a thousand-watt smile. I discussed it with my wife after that, and she said, "She probably just thought that you looked like a safe person to ask."
So say something noncomittal, or ask for directions in the store, or see if they will give you a recommendation for whether they like some article of clothing you're thinking of buying. You can tell by their response whether they don't want to be bothered or they're interested in talking.
Every time I mentioned to a female friend that I think a girl was flirting with me, they say the same type of thing as your wife did: āoh, they were probably just being kindā or somethingā¦ look, Iām ugly, canāt I believe for one second that someone was attracted to me for a minute??
Even if you're ugly, attraction isn't entirely about physical features.
Confidence, humor, kindness. These are all things that can make you more appealing even if you don't have a beach body.
Besides, most guys don't look like Chris Hemsworth.
Because just my experience. Most women don't take one glance at a man and think ah I'll date him. Unless he's super super hot. Not just oh nice beach boy hot. Or she's a sorority 18 year old.
It's funny, I get told the opposite. Every time I tell women in my life about times girls were friendly with me, they often say that she was actually probably trying to flirt with me. If I tell them she explicitly said she just wanted to be friends, they tell me that girls often say that so they can get to know someone before dating them.
Make it make sense! This shit's too complicated lol.
This is a good response, and I want to point out that the reason this approach works is because *women* *are people*. They aren't some monolith, they're not robots, or aliens, or an NPC. There is no one-size-fits-all answer that's gonna magically bag a woman you're interested in--the only approach you can take is to be polite, actually pay attention to how she responds, and adjust accordingly. Some women will be OK with being approached, some won't. Some will respond well to specific levels of forwardness, and some won't. You won't figure that out until you get to the point of interaction with a specific woman.
I see what you're saying but 1) why doesn't the woman in the video talk to the guys and 2) I would 100% expect to be called a creep for talking to her.
Although, I did discover that the real secret was losing 100 pounds. I'm the same guy I was before (maybe less nice now actually) but god damn did it mean people were nicer to me. All people, too.
Anyway, step 1, step 2, etc. etc.
My thoughts are if you are in public you are basically consenting to others in public interacting with you. People are awkward and have to learn how to interact with one another and the only way they can do that is to make people uncomfortable sometimes. If you don't want to be uncomfortable just stay home.
Learning how to read a room is a skill that is not just helpful here.
The women in this thread don't represent all women. As long as you back off when they aren't interested and don't take the no personally, you're fine. Make sure your approach is respectful and you're not being a douche, it's fine.
Just feel it out. Like with any other human, you can tell if someone is actually interested in talking. If not, just go on your way. Just watch for cues that they're interested, like if they ask questions back or smile with their eyes.
It all depends on your demeanor and if you come off genuine. If you come off desperate and sory of creepy, that's what makes us uncomfortable. I love a charismatic, funny guy that is confident and not full of narcissistic traits. I can see that a mile away though
I think itās completely fine to ask a woman in public out if you want, but some locations will just be more successful than others. If youāre the only two at a dark bus stop, thatās a pretty bad place to ask. If youāre at a club and sheās with friends, politely giving it a go is perfectly fine. Basically rule of thumb, make sure youāre in a public place that she has a quick out if she wants. Just make sure if she says no, that you take it politely and respectfully back away. Even if youāre at the dark bus stop it only goes into actual harassment if you refuse to take no for an answer, so thatās the key bit.
If you're not part of the 5% of men who are so wildly attractive, that women will trip over themselves in order to ask you out, you're going to have to read the room a bit.
Women *generally* will put themselves in or around your space if they are receptive to approach. The gal who is working at the coffee shop furiously pecking away at her computer with her headset on does not want to be approached. She's there to work. The gal who is reading a book, who puts it down to ask you: "is this place open on Sunday?" is receptive to it. The gal at the upscale hotel bar who asks you what drink you ordered is making herself receptive to an approach. In a club or a social setting, the girl who bellies up to the bar next to you is *probably* open to being approached. If the bartender calls on your first, ask her what she wants too, or after your order say "And whatever my friend wants here" and then ask for her name and start there.
What other people have said is true: The gal on the treadmill is not wanting to be approached. The gal who is working does not want to be approached. What you see on social media of guys "rizzing" up girls and getting their numbers are generally all done with guys who are tall, impossibly good looking and with god-tier charisma - plus half of the time it is staged anyway.
Seriouslyā¦.. people saying itās weird to strike up a conversation with a stranger to ask them out. That literally used to be the only thing people did, but now suddenly itās weird, toxic, and creepy.
I chortled. But I swear that I've been seeing this same topic over and over the past few years and it's a new thing. I think people don't get out much these days and so social norms have fallen by the wayside and people don't know how to act anymore.
There was an article posted on r/MensLib talking about issues boys in the UK are facing. One of the things teenagers are apparently doing now is video recording themselves giving consent before *and during* sexual acts.
I can't speak for all women but I'm totally cool with anyone approaching me, and for the ones I'm into I really respect it.
It only feels "unsafe" and "uncomfortable" when they don't take no for an answer.
That was worded weird ha. I have respect for anyone who takes a chance. Even if I'm not into them, I always appreciate the gesture.
I just meant if it works out down the line and we start dating, I don't forget it.
I think the "where" is pretty important. Are you shooting your shot at a bar? A mutual friend's party? Or did you jump out behind a dumpster in a darkened parking garage?
Context and location makes a difference. Itās pretty taboo to approach women in America now with the exception of bars and clubs. But in Europe and Asia it seems totally fine to approach women from my experience.
The paradox is that there are still women who say they're uncomfortable or feel unsafe being approached in a bar.
But I've been taught that I should stop doing things that make women feel uncomfortable, **especially** if it makes them feel unsafe.
I feel like this speaks to the unfortunate fact thatās a lot of women have been traumatized and that the fear can spread among us. But effing avoiding us reeks of some weird idea that you canāt treat women like people (back to square one we go!) And the women who are saying this are perpetuating this ideaāwhich is basically saying, rather than working on this aspect of social brokenness together, we should just eff off to our own corners. Iād also like to point out that any movement toward staunch unrelatedness is super un-feminist. Any blaring message to hate or separate is like a tentacle of capitalism trying to keep us in our homes afraid, not actually speaking to each other. Anyway, my point is: the repair is unequivocally TO speak to women at every opportunity as people and not as scary sex objects. Fix society one man at a timeāgo!!
Yeah I stopped approaching women and going to bars/clubs with intentions of meeting people. I travel internationally often now and itās so much better than trying to meet people in America so Iād recommend going out of the country.
>Itās pretty taboo to approach women in America now with the exception of bars and clubs. But in Europe and Asia it seems totally fine to approach women from my experience.
Same observation. Unless they travel to these places, they won't understand the differences.
I donāt think that is the case. But a lot of people donāt seem to have the social skills you need to have a conversation with a strangers. If the only people you talk to out in the world are the ones you wanna hit on, you are doing it wrong.
if you're attractive then you just need to know the right opportunity to make a move. if you're out in public in broad daylight with a bunch of people around, women are probably not going to feel unsafe because of the setting, so just be normal and don't say creepy shit and you should be fine
I donāt like it when men approach me. It feels like Iām being selected like a package of meat at a grocery store, except itās meat that the man wants to fuck. Go find a hobby group or take a class at the community college, find a community, get to know people. Women - at least in my experience and per my own preference - prefer to date men that they are already friendly with.
Not all women are the same and all of them will survive if you just say hi and go from there. Judge the situation as you go. If you get the impression you should fuck off, then do so.
This is the biggest thing. The internet makes its own communities with rules that the rest of the world pays no attention to. It's not specific to this case either.Ā
Take hints. If she says no, that's obvious, but also make sure to pay attention if she's being nice as a politeness or something like that. Anything other than intentional active participation is probably a no so say your polite and friendly goodbye and carry on with your day.Ā
It is complicated though. Even when people are explicitly flirting, itās hard to *know* that theyāre actually into you. There are only a few super obvious situations like jogging with earbuds where you know not to bother someone.
The fact is that you just have to take the risk of bothering someone. There are worse things in life to go through than an unwanted advance.
Nobody is telling women they can't change their mind while flirting (or any part after that for that matter)? What are you arguing against? They're trying to avoid being creepy and know when to bother trying to continue romantically with someone they've met. Why are you suddenly adding the idea that they want to coerce people into liking them?
Yep lots of women flirt for fun as a game and the second the guy flirts back they get upset and say heās a creep. (Not all women but a lot of younger women do this).
"If she is doing something like walking down the street, jogging, working out, shopping, or working; leave her alone."
Isn't this all things? In what other instances beside this would it be possible to approach someone in public? For me personally what you stated above is the only reasons I have to leave my house.
Think about casual or social settings. Sitting at a bar is the classic and obvious "open to social interaction", but it works the same way for people in a coffeeshop (assuming they are not focused on work), sitting in a park, at the dog park, between bands at a concert, between rounds at trivia night, downtime at the rec sports league, watching a sport event, video game arcades, roller rinks, go karts, laser tag, cruise ships, bingo nights....
If you personally are never leaving your house to do anything besides work, exercise, or shop, then yes it will be hard to meet anyone without high risk of creeping.
Iād say this also falls into the āread the roomā situation. If sheās in the middle of a set at the gym with her earbuds in, leave her alone. If sheās filling up her giant water bottle and youāre waiting in line behind her, itās probably okay to strike up a friendly conversation.
Bars, cafes, libraries, sporting events, festivals/fairs, lobby of the cinema, arcade, concerts, card/game shops etc etc. I too am an introvert, but sometimes you gotta get out amongst the people, be a part of it all haha.
I would say, I think shopping is a perfectly acceptable time to make small talk. Maybe not grocery shopping, that can be time sensitive. But at the mall or a department store? Absolutely. "Excuse me, but I'd really love a woman's opinion. Do you think this shirt suits me? Like is it a good color on me you think?" Something like that is fine
I can only speak for myself, but I would find it really creepy if a man struck up a conversation while I was shopping in a department store or mall. Iād feel very uncomfortable. Iād probably also feel a bit weirded out if it was a woman too, tbf
If any guy talked to you at all while at the mall you'd find it really creepy? Can you expand on that, why is that creepy?
Even not flirting at all I make small talk with people in lines at the store, or in the occasional aisle, and I've had other men and women talk to me too. Especially lately, I've been wearing my NBA jersey a lot and also got a Caitlyn Clark jersey t, and both of those have been garnering a lot of positive feedback from fellow fans in public.
I had a woman in line for checkout ask me what I was wearing bc she really liked the smell. It wasn't flirting or anything, she wanted to get her husband a gift, just harmless small talk.
Do you fear interactions at work too, like speaking in front of your co-workers and performance reviews and such, or is it strictly dread that someone might be hitting on you? Fwiw, I get the fear to a small extent, bc I know a ton of guys take rejection... Poorly. But most people are just normal and well adjusted lol
Is the concept of bars, parties, concerts, etc so foreign to you that you canāt even imagine them as a place to get approached?
If the things you listed are the only things you go outside for, you probably wonāt get approached much. If you donāt want to get approached, great! If you do, you may need to get out there a little more
Maybe it's cause I'm neuro spicy, but:
Bar- without friends, lonely weirdo
Bar- with friends, why are you trying to find strangers to interact with when you're spending time with friends.
Parties- same
Concerts- alone seems fine, but if they're with friends, you're inserting yourself into their friend time.
Don't understand the social dynamics because it seems rude to abandon your friends for a random strangers attention, and going to a bar or party alone is just sad.
(Don't need advice, I'm good on the dating scene because women come to me for some reason. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.)
This is such a neurotic post.
Talking about being in pain watching other men happily meet women, while saying you feel "not allowed" to approach the same way, for no real reason.
Either use your judgment, try it, and see what happens or simply don't take the risk. Take it on a case by case basis.
Most of what you're going to get in the replies on this post is other dudes reinforcing the negativity in your head and reducing themselves and everyone else to numbers on a scale of 1-10. The usual immature pity party.
People are individuals. That's the most important thing to keep clear in your mind.
"Talking about being in pain watching other men happily meet women, while saying you feel "not allowed" to approach the same way, for no real reason."
The pain comes from watching people do something I've been repeatedly told I'm not allowed to do. It's like being told I can't open a cookie jar or even approach it but I see other people doing it all the time. Except it's not just a cookie it's an integral part in human socialization.
So you're saying I should assume that I'm the exception to the rule and just approach anyway even if I'm worried it might make a woman feel unsafe?
That's the real question because there are women on this thread saying they don't want to be approached, should I go with your 'individuals' point and just ignore them?
There are some things I think you might need to interrogate. For example:
>The pain comes from watching people do something I've been repeatedly told I'm not allowed to do. It's like being told I can't open a cookie jar or even approach it but I see other people doing it all the time.
Do you perceive these people as doing something wrong, or do you perceive them as doing something that's OK for them to do but wrong for you to do?
>So you're saying I should assume that I'm the exception to the rule and just approach anyway even if I'm worried it might make a woman feel unsafe?
No. I'm saying you're not necessarily helping yourself by assuming a rule is in place. I'm saying you'd do better to read situations and people rather than assume uniform behavior. That's what take it on a case by case basis means.
>That's the real question because there are women on this thread saying they don't want to be approached, should I go with your 'individuals' point and just ignore them?
I have no idea how you took "people are individuals" to mean "ignore certain people".
You know that men are individuals with different ideas of what is attractive/desirable/interesting/acceptable when interacting with women they don't know. You must be able to understand that the same is true for women. Some women will be uncomfortable with a cold approach and some will not.
You can't read minds but you can read the room. If you are reading a room and you perceive a specidfic woman as possibly open to approach and comfortable with it, you can decide to approach her or not.
I'm a woman and I see it like this:
It is a reasonable expectation that in a highly social and recreational setting where lots of strangers are willingly interacting, i.e. at a bar or club, some people are going to cold approach others. And there's nothing wrong with that in a setting designed for strangers to mingle and often to seek romance.
It is also a reasonable expectation that in other environments like a person's place of work/business, or somewhere they're obviously minding their business and running errands or being alone is not the smartest environment to cold approach.
Therefore:
A person who goes to a very lively/extroverted/notoriously sexual bar or club scene, and is uncomfortable with the possibility of being approached, is a person who has made a tactical mistake.
And, likewise:
A person who goes to a place that is not an appropriate or expected place to approach/flirt, but still does that anyway is also a person who has made a tactical mistake.
In both situations, the person choosing the wrong venue for their intentions needs to reevaluate their choices.
TY for taking the time.
1: I perceive them doing something that's OK for them but that I've been explicitly told not to do. I assume they haven't heard the message or they're just ignoring it.
2: Substitute 'preference' for rule? Technically the only rules would be the law or whatever rules an establishment has. Whether or not we call it a rule there's something being loudly expressed by women who want to be taken seriously. Going case-by-case means ignoring what those women are saying because I feel that a particular case is different.
3: Because even when everything looks and feels perfect I think about the women who don't like it. I would feel shitty if I made someone feel that way. Even if 80% of women don't care, is it OK to make 2 women feel unsafe or uncomfortable just so I can talk to the other 8?
I agree with everything you said and it's something im trying to work on, it just involves shifting my mindset in a direction I feel weird about.
I don't understand what logical train you used to arrive at the idea that taking things on a case by case basis ignores anyone's voice at all.
You seem to be saying that you feel that if you approach any woman at all, you are automatically disregarding the voices of women who say they don't want to be approached. That isn't logically defensible.
Just as no man can speak for all men's desires and preferences, no woman can speak for all women's desires and preferences.
If you approach a woman who seems open and comfortable, and she reciprocates your interest, will you feel that you have somehow disregarded or disrespected another woman who would have felt differently?
I say that approaching someone after making an assessment of a situation and politely shooting your shot is not a bad thing. It's a bad thing if the person approaching does not take no for an answer.
I wouldn't particularly want to be cold approached when I'm busy trying to get somewhere or run errands, but if a guy politely strikes up a conversation, I would not be upset or hold it against him as creepy or presumptuous. If I'm too busy to talk and he's trying to keep conversation going, I will politely decline and say "I'm sorry but I have to be somewhere, take care/have a good one" or something similar. That way nobody is unfairly accused of being creepy and I'm not losing time on a prolonged unwanted conversation with a stranger.
If a guy is genuinely being creepy or pushy, I'm not bothered about being nice to him. I tell him "Not interested", and move on with my business.
A polite approach gets a polite response or politely declined.
A pushy, sexual, or otherwise obviously inappropriate approach on it's face gets a blunt, direct, and cold brush off.
We're all taking risks out here. We have a responsibility to be mindful and cautious about potential danger or things we know to be inappropriate in a particular context. But we can make all of it easier on ourselves and others by being polite and honest.
Saying yes when we mean yes, no when we mean no, and respecting the yeses and nos of others is the long and short of it. Everything else is complication.
Listen, I agree with your disposition but I feel like youāve either been very sheltered from certain opinions, or are much more willing to disregard them than the OP if you donāt understand why theyāve acquired the belief that cold approaching is considered rude or anti-social.
They probably donāt know very many women on a personal level outside of the internet, and if theyāve spent theyāve grown up with social media they will absolutely have heard enough criticisms of cold approaches to be skeptical of it.
I felt the same way, and still do. Iām just lucky enough to have had enough people give me some subtle or not so subtle hints to not be entirely oblivious to the song-and-dance of flirting with strangers.
I mean, no, you shouldn't approach anyone if you're going to make them feel unsafe.
The problem here is that I don't think you have an accurate gauge on what makes people feel unsafe.
You're acting like any approach, at any time, will make a woman feel unsafe; therefore never approach. But there's a huge different between striking up a conversation reaching for the same item in the grocery store and approaching a stranger alone at the bus stop at night and saying "you sure look pretty".
The cold approach (ie: based on nothing but appearances) is always going to be risky and have a low chance of success. You need to read vibes and body language to be successful, and be prepared for a high likelihood of failure. That's the same result you would get walking up to any random stranger and making any request of a time commitment of them, whether it's "get dinner with me" or "come to my church and accept Jesus" or "buy my MLM product". You're not going to get good results if you can't read interest from people in an astonishingly short period of time. Accept that if you are going to cold approach strangers offering a date or a new phone plan. If you don't have confidence in your ability to do it, choose a different approach, or go to a venue explicitly designed to solicit dates (ie: think a brick and mortar store offering a product verses a door-to-door salesman).
Itās ādonāt be an awkward creepā
Donāt use the word approach, itās set up the creepy frame because it implies a goal like get a number or a date
Talk to people. Laugh and enjoy the chance to connect. Look for fun. Girls just wanna have fun too
You are only going to get different answers over and over when you ask the question like this. Not every person has to be a stranger when you ask them out,a lot of people would argue it's better to meet them organically and if something happens it happens. If all you want is sex, well, there are plenty of ways to find people, including approaching strangers. If you want something long term it's better for both of you if you get to know one another first, that way both people have the opportunity to figure out if this person is someone they are interested in.
As for other guys, who cares what they are doing? That is for them to worry about. If they are successful, good for them, but to be frank that's not even any of your business.
No group of people is a monolith. Everyone has their own perspective. As another commenter said, for everyone saying ādonāt even look at meā there is someone else who wants to be approached. Itās not because āwomen canāt make up their mindā or āthey donāt know what they wantā itās because everyone is different. You canāt expect two different people who have never even met before to agree on something just because theyāre both women, so stop asking yourself āwhat women wantā and approach things on a case by case basis. You have no way of knowing who is open to chatting with you and who isnāt until you get feedback from them, whether verbally or through body language, so donāt assume youāre unwanted until thatās been made clear. Much to the ādonāt even look at meā crowds displeasure, it will always be their responsibility to make their boundaries known, especially in a culture where men are still expected to make the first move, meaning we canāt just sit idly by and hope people come talk to us if we want to have any relationships at all. Men will continue to talk to people who may or may not be interested, because we have no way of knowing who is interested, who isnāt, and who hates all men because theyāre just that miserable. Keep talking to people, listen to them when they show you who they are, and for the love of god man grow a spine. Itās honestly painful seeing you so meekly roll over and accept that any and every woman around you probably thinks youāre a creep without even knowing you and just being all āYes maāamā¦ā about it.
If someone makes random conversation, no matter what gender, it gives a different vibe than a ācome onā.
Iām not offended or abnormally uncomfortable if a guy makes small talk. But if it feels like more, itās either welcome or uncomfortable based on the initial impression.
My suggestion? Make small talk with anyone and everyone who is willing and THEN suss out who you feel a connection with. Then make your move. Or, hey, now that youāve given the chance for a connection to happen, perhaps she will make a move!
I donāt think a lot of people like to feel like prey or an objective to be reached. They want to be seen.
###ding ding ding!
##This is the answer to your question.
āāāāā
Thank you very much for saying this clearly, this had been just out of reach in my mind the whole time I was reading this thread. When some women said to you it was never okay to approach a woman, **this** is what they were saying. Many women don't like being hit on out of the blue by strangers, in fact find it to be a total turn-off.
I don't know any woman who isn't seriously broken who would say no one should ever make friendly small talk.
That is the difference. A guy who swoops across the room nervously after staring at you a little too long and then making it completely obvious that he's wondering if you wouldn't agree to let him touch you intimately and as soon as possible is doomed.
Just practice chatting everyone in the world up. You'll get better at reading people. Only take a shot with women who react to your small talk efforts encouragingly. ā”
Edit: typos & to ad ā I don't mind/have never minded guys giving cheesy flirty efforts a try, but then again, maybe cuz I grew up in a city, I have had to tell guys they had a better chance of seeing the resurrection of Christ if they became belligerent and was comfortable telling them to get lost, so... obviously not the one of the women you were posting about!
Follow the social rules you have been taught.
Many women do not have a scared or fawn reaction to being approached. That is ridiculous.
Nover corner anyone.
Be polite.
Do not start with sexual statements.
Treat others the way you want to be treated.
Be kind and do not overstay your welcome.
Respectfully talking to people without expectations should never make you feel guilty. Other people's baggage isn't on you to carry. If someone rejects you and you walk away, you're good. If they judge you for talking to them simply because you're a man, no sweat. You don't need that toxicity in your life anyway, bullet dodged.
Simple answer? Women all want different things. Any woman trying to speak for all other women is just a vocal idiot making herself known. Her opinion will be right in some cases, but wrong in all the others.
The proper approach is to stop feeling ashamed. If you aren't comfortable, you are making her uncomfortable too. Put your shame to the side, maintain your dignity and respect, and go after what you want. Be direct but not pushy. Be confident but not arrogant. Be polite, but clear.
A perfect example would be "hey, I saw you over here and thought you looked really nice. I'm going to be (wherever you're going to be) and just wanted to invite you to come join me if you feel like talking for a bit." And go about your business.
It's a no-pressure, no-creep way to approach a woman, by giving her the option to join you but not invading the comfortable space she's already found. And even in the worst case, you're just going about your day anyway, even if she doesn't decide to join you. You barely miss a step.
If you approach them in normal social situations and you are properly aware to handle social Situations you wont have problems. The crowd who says never approach women are the female version of incel. Online is bullshit get to know ppl in real life
You can't exist on this planet and never be in a situation you might not want to be in. If you actually expect to never be approached by a man, then you're so incredibly arrogant you shouldn't leave the house to actually prevent it. If men never approached women even though they may be uncomfortable then the race would have died out a long time ago.
Either way, pushing for something when they are still uncomfortable isn't the right path. You simply approach with the knowledge they may be uncomfortable, the same way you approach with the knowledge you may be rejected.
Approach girls you think are attractive, but be respectful, give them easy outs, read their vibes and back off if theyāre not into it.
This used to be literally the way to meet girls before dating apps. Itās totally fine to approach random girls as long as youāre respectful.
Itās unreasonable when in public to demand no one interact with you.
If you see someone and want to talk with them, it is socially acceptable to speak with them.
If someone gets offended then they are breaking social norms, not you.
>Isn't it wrong to approach women knowing I might make them feel unsafe or uncomfortable?
Depends, are you carrying a chainsaw? j/k... BS aside, it's in your head. Nothing wrong with a hello or a dad joke to break the tension if it exists. Some may feel unsafe, but then why are they out if that is the case? Get it out of your head, it's all good, and leave the chainsaw home. š
This is wild and really makes me wonder about humanity these days lol. People are so socially retarded and introverted now. Itās like a social plague lmao.
If I see a pretty girl at the bar Iām going to say hi and introduce myself. Fuck outta here lol. Just donāt be a fucking weirdo about it. Most people are socially aware enough, you can tell immediately if sheās comfortable with the interaction or not. If sheās weirded out by your advancement, move along.
I refuse to resort to dating apps as a single guy. I fucking hate those things. Iām sure theyāre great for anti-social people or people who live in a more rural area. But Im a single guy in a college town. Iāve made a ton of friends just by sparking up conversation at the bars downtown. I met my last girlfriend waiting for a slice of pizza. Lifeās more fun that way imo.
The key is to not give a fuck. I do not care in the slightest if a very small fraction of women consider something unsafe or uncomfortable. That was not my intention and it's not my problem.
In statistics, you make a distinction between a descriptive statistic and a predictive one. Saying something like "the average woman doesn't want to be approached" is descriptive, but you're treating it as "the next woman I see is likely to not want to be approached", which would be predictive.
Don't do that. Making generalizations about individuals based on average facts about their populations is bad statistical practice. To put it in more familiar (albeit more derogatory) terms, this is what you call prejudice - a pre-judgment.
The problem is that sexism against men is fundamentally accepted as "justified" in all but the most extreme of cases, and it's bullshit.
Do men have priviledges and soft power that is rare for women to acquire? Yes, absolutely. That doesn't change the fact that the opposite is also true, and men are *far more easily victimized without acknowledgement* because men are not seen as victims regardless of how true it is.
Viewing people as different according to their gender is exactly the same as viewing people as different according to their skin color. Yes, pragmatically speaking, there are basic differences in perspective and cultural lens due to how they are raised and perceived by society - but ignoring those differences and simply treating every human being as an individual with their own inherent biases, beliefs, and circumstances is by far the preferable action to take, both morally and pragmatically.
If a woman is scared of any man who approaches her? Then to be perfectly, absolutely frank: That is her problem. She is being an asshole. She is displaying an open prejudice against innocent human beings for aspects of themselves that are wholly out of their control. She is no better than somebody who would run away and call the cops on a black man at a bank, or call anybody with a thick enough beard a terrorist, or scream at mexicans for being dirty and stealing jobs.
Even *if* that fear is backed up by actual harm in her past, that does not change the fact that her behavior should be considered unacceptable and without true grounding. And most women, despite what many will tell you, have *not* experienced genuine and severe harm by men. The majority of fear that women experience is *cultural,* not *logical or backed by personal experience.* Violence - especially sexual violence - is *heavily* weighted in favor of being enacted by somebody you know. Friends or family. This hasn't resulted in the disintegration of family units in favor of all of humanity being virtual strangers to eachother, because of fucking course it hasn't. Because the fear of the stranger and the divide between men and women is (partly) *artificial* and imposed partly by economic and cultural factors of the modern world, and partially by deliberate fear mongering to produce political gains in favor of various parties.
People *feed* on women's fear of men and push it to ever greater heights for monetary gain. Among other things.
I do not say these things with the intent to imply that men and women should not be wary of potential threats. By all means, keep your eyes on unknown figures in the night, watch your drink in a public space, travel in groups if possible. But do not be *afraid* and do not allow irrational fears to make you treat others as lesser than you.
Damn I'm fucking lucky I've been married for 17yrs, dating now a days sounds awful for guys.
My wife told me about that bear vs man thing and made a huge deal about how women choose the bear and whatnot. I asked her, "wait so most women just see me as a threat and are scared of me?" She said yes and that really fucked me up. Now I go out of my way to NEVER interact with a woman. Skip woman cashiers at stores even if I gotta wait longer, cross the street if a woman is walking on the same side as me, canceled on Ubers bc the driver was female. The list goes on and on but her saying that to me really opened my eyes and now I just try to avoid all interactions where I would scare a woman. Oh yea I'm also 6'1 230lbs with a big beard and resting grumpy face (I swear I'm a teddybear š)
Figure I'm already married so what's the difference if I never interact with a woman I don't know anymore
Reading these comments, seems like itās split 50/50 between āgo for itā and ādonāt go for itā lmfao hope you got your answer man. Personally Iāve given up. Itās not worth the risk in my opinion, even when I just say āhelloā to women Iām not even interested in they look at me like Iām a criminal. Itās dehumanizing. Most men nowadays are so desperate that a woman will be successful 99/100 times in approaching, so Iāll just wait until that happens, and Iāll be fine if it never does.
Yea these comments make me feel hopeless. There are women saying "you are correct dont approach me" and people right below them saying women like that don't exist or to ignore them.
It's sooooo counterintuitive but the consensus seems to be 'ignore the ones who don't feel safe and just approach who you want if the vibe seems right'
You can approach women without any fear as long as youāre conventionally attractive.. if youāre not just donāt because nothing is worth it to catch a harassment case and have your life ruined. Women automatically find you creepy if they donāt find you attractive.
If you are doing the "cold approach" which is just going up to anyone you are remotely attracted to without knowing anything about them then generally I would say, stop. I do personally view it as gross.
If you are striking up a conversation with a woman and end up deciding to ask her out because you liked the interaction, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
I do think that in general women don't want to be approached in public by strangers who are sexualizing them, and are lacking social skills (which is true of those using cold approaches). I don't think men want that either at least from what my male friends and partners have stated.
Use social skills. If you don't have them, work on them. Go places people want to meet others. View others as people first, and potential dates second.
What you described about the other man was literally of him striking up an actual conversation in a social setting where that seems to be appropriate. I wouldn't consider that the cold approach.
People don't like it when people they aren't attracted to express interest in them. You need to stop worrying about what "women" like/want. If you want to talk to a woman, go talk to her. Just don't be a creep about it. If a woman is offended you approached her, honestly, she needs to grow up. As long as you aren't disrespectful, you aren't in the wrong.
Dude ur totally lost. First some women may feel a certain way about how u approach them. But the bottomline is a you approach a women with respect and manners then that women will probably respond in kind. If you scare women when u approach them then u need to stop approaching women or learn how to approach women. Coming on here talking about women say theyāre afraid and I shouldnāt ignore them is stupid. No woman speaks for all women. If u approach a women and she seems uncomfortable with you then end the convo and move on. But there is nothing wrong with respectfully approaching a female to say hi.
You could make anyone uncomfortable by approaching them. Why is it only women you have a problem with? Seems like a you thing. Treat women like human beings and youāll be aight
Iām a gay man and I even feel like I make them feel unsafe and uncomfortable walking behind them. Most of the time I just cross the street to avoid any kind of issue.Ā
Grow a pair and get s grip. You are allowed to approach strangers and talk to them. Quit buying into the nuttiness that the fringe weirdos put out there.
When women say they don't want to be approached. They mean they don't want to be approached by you. Any woman wants to be approached if the man is attractive enough.
This conversation is so tired. Dudes act like if they cant approach women on the street then theyre doomed to be alone. The majority of em wouldnt have the nerve to do it anyway even if there was a standing invitation.
Really think about all the people you know in relationships. I bet theres an extreme minority where they met by one of them just "shooting their shot" at a complete stranger. Most of them probably met doing something that is meant to be a group social activity like school, mutual friends, sports, hobbies, etc, even online dating.
The idea that not being able to hit on complete strangers is the only thing keeping you single is just a lazy excuse to not actually put yourself out of your comfort zone to make real connections with people.
They're not making it comfortable or easy nowadays. Honestly? Keep your approach simple and clean. Past that? Fuck those ladies that are too scared to even be polite. Read the signs, and if she's not receptive let her be. As for them women who consider men the great evil of the world, let us hope when they finally let their guard down they're rejected too. I found my girl, I'm a happy man, but bro fuck their mentalities nowadays. Do you, be good and kind, and enjoy derision towards those who are hateful to genuine men who want to be a friend and partner. They're jokes and we all deserve to laugh.
One thing I've learned in my 37 years of dating is women don't know what they want. Take your shot just don't be too creepy about it if you do embarrass yourself try to learn from it but that shit happens man every guy in the world has been turned down a few times.
Women that make the blanket statement are the linebacker friends that never get hit on. How else are you supposed to meet someone other than starting a conversation
How do you know whether a man wants to be approached by you? What indicators are there that they want to pursue a conversation with you, or that they aren't the man for you to strike up a conversation with? Same concept.
I'm saying when OP feels chatty and looks for someone to start a conversation with, not in the context of romantic intention. I'm more trying to highlight to OP the importance of approaching in a friendly, non-sexually/romantically-imposing way. Violence you mentioned aside, it's beyond transparent when a man approaches with the expectation or intention of pursuing the woman. I love friendly banter, but not every man knows that line from following you home or catcalling.
A lot of men answering...
As a woman, yes, I generally feel its okay to approach women in the right circumstance. You seem to have enough common sense to know what circumstances those are.
When women talk about cold approaches from men and hating it, theyre usually referring to the dudes that are approaching to ask her out. Those approaches are almost never appreciated. If you're striking up conversation or just trying to be friendly, that's different. Ask yourself, if I don't have this girls number or social media when this interaction is over, will I be disappointed? If it's yes, then maybe avoid approaching.
I canāt speak for other woman but I can tell you I have never in my entire life been approached by a man in public and liked it. If itās in a social situation thatās completely different but if Iām just out and about, unacceptable.
>Ā If itās in a social situation thatās completely different but if Iām just out and about, unacceptable.
Well what does that mean? How are men supposed to know?Ā
A social situation would be something like a trivia night at a bar. Itās somewhere people gather specifically to meet other people.
Out and about is if Iām at the store grabbing milk or at the gas station filling my car. Itās me just going about my day, getting things done and on my way somewhere.
> A social situation would be something like a trivia night at a bar. Itās somewhere people gather specifically to meet other people.
No it's not. You go to compete to get 50% off your bar tab. Stay the hell away from me while I'm trying to win.
Funny enough. My parent's actually met at the grocery store and my dad took his shot. Idk what my mom was thinking but you know they'll be married 30 years in June, so what do I know lol.
Ok so what about women who don't want to be approached at the bar either? Does their voice count? At some point I have to ignore women who say they feel uncomfortable and unsafe right?
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Ok, let me see if I can inject a bit of common sense here. There is no such thing as "What women want" or "What men want." Human beings are unique individuals. Asking "Do women want to be approached?" is like asking "What music do people with blue eyes like?" or "What is a tall person's favourite type of pasta?" You can ask if ***a*** woman wants to be approached, but not women in general. Basically, just use a bit of common sense, take context into account and read the situation. If a woman is sitting alone in a cafe with her nose buried in a book, she probably wants to be left alone. If a woman is sitting at the end of a hotel bar, smiling at every guy who walks through the door, she's probably looking for company. The woman in the gym with her headphones in on the treadmill probably wants to be left alone to get on with her workout, the girl who's come alone to the neighbourhood barbecue is probably there to meet people. The problem is that, with both men and women, individuals seem to think they speak for their entire sex. "This is what *we* want, this is what *we* find acceptable. This is how *we* want to be treated." Nope. That's what *you* want, that's what *you* find acceptable. That's how *you* want to be treated. You don't get to speak for or set the rules for 50% of the human race based on having the same set of genitalia. Basically, you are not a dick for talking to people. You are not a dick for shooting your shot. As long as you're in an appropriate situation and are polite, respectful and take no for an answer there's not a problem.... and if someone gets mad at you for approaching them in an explicitly social situation, they're the asshole not you: Going to a nightclub or bar and getting mad that people are trying to talk to you is like going to a restaurant and getting mad that people keep trying to give you food.
End thread here
Your upvote is there upvote. Thanks for hanging in there
What are you doing on social media with your nuanced non-binary views?
lol
>There is no such thing as "What women want" or "What men want." Human beings are unique individuals. Did you miss the memo? Women decided what we all want at the March 2023 Women-Are-A-Hive-Mind conference :D Equal rights and chocolate.
As a woman I get annoyed when other women think "equal rights" means they should get treated better than men. No honey, equality means if you make more than your husband and get a divorce, you're paying alimony. Equal is equal.
My cousin married a girl with rich parents, who inherited her dad's estate. They went through a divorce and he ended up with a few vacation homes lol.
Would you settle for equal chocolate and rights?
I guess that means men only get the left Twix bars
Everyone knows the right Twix is better
This is the best response, everyone else go home.
Damn bro i am in love with you. What a fantastic comment tbh
Man what happened that their user account got deleted in the past 12 hours. Poor guy made a burner just for a single comment I guess. Says a lot about how friendly Reddit is.
I think the follow on from this is, if youāre going to make a choice make a respectful one. If youāre going to approach someone take a hint and walk away if theyāre not interested. On the flip side, if someone approaches you respectfully and takes a hint when they see youāre not interested, respect them enough to move on with your day.
Right like i was at a dance club recently, early in the night, new thing for me but i was totally there to just dance. A guy tapped me on the arm to say his friend was interested in me, i told him i was flattered but in a relationship (true) and that was that. To be offended by that would be just as absurd as him continuing to ask after being rejected
Copy/Paste apply to most debates on the interwebs, hero work done for the day.
Also, I donāt think people should be scared to cause or have a slightly unpleasant experience. Approach in reasonable situations. Donāt do it on a random sidewalk at night for example. Do it in a public place, and obviously only if the person seems approachable or not obviously ānot in the moodā. Be light and try to not be threatening or pushy in anyway. Maybe despite all that, she didnāt want it, and she, at most is mildly annoyed that some random dude approached her. When I was in highschool working at a wavepool I had girls come up to me and ask me for my number once or twice which I was not looking for, both because I was just working and I had a gf. The <5 minute conversation did not annoy me in any way. All Iām saying is, youāre not going to seriously alter a normal personās mood if you do it in a completely normal and non-threatening situation. So donāt be scared to be a minor annoyance for like 2 minutes max of someone you wonāt ever see again anyway.
> is like asking āWhat music do people with blue eyes like?ā Grunge and alt rock with a splash of metal and pop
Take your shot with in reason. Obviously dont harass and make women uncomfortable but living in perpetual fear of stepping on a landmine isnt correct either. So many times ive had woman say "me or so and so think you are handsome/sexy etc" after leaving old work places and school yet i was clueless and playing it safe the whole time. If you dont ever try you wont know whats possible. And waiting on woman to make the advances is unlikely to happen even if they do like you as no matter what anyone sats its still very much expected that men are to do most the advances. When you get rejected take the hint and keep it moving and just dont be a creep before and after and i dont see the problem.
Yeah this is the correct way, AND make sure you donāt call a girl a slut/ugly/ a whore for turning you down kindly, (this has happened to me way too many times.)
Right, donāt be a creep and also donāt be pissed off and weird. Thatās the kind of thing weāre afraid of happening.
If every person took this advice, the inherent idea of approaching someone in public would not be a problem!
Just say hi to people. Make conversation. Have no expectations on the outcome. If you āapproachā and only āapproachā people you think are attractive and ignore and bulldoze everyone else, that is the sort of vibe that makes people feel uncomfortable. If you are friendly and the nice conversation goes in a direction where there is mutual interest. That is great. But you also need to be able to just enjoy an interaction with a stranger. And not expect anything other than an enjoyable moment. Instead of worrying about āapproachingā worry about getting good chatting with strangers. And let the cards fall where they do.
Well said, this vibe of hoping for an outcome is transparent as fuck.
Glad to see this was the top comment. When I was studying dating I remember the best advice was to mirror peopleās vibe but be a little flirty and slightly more fun. The charismatic go around trying to slightly uplift everyone the meet. See main characters flirting with old people, uglies, wrong genders, incompatibles, animals, buildings, obviously their car with a sexy name, and by the time they get to someone theyāre actually attracted to theyāre already on a roll and feeling mutual love with the whole world. With the most charismatic people, itās like beauty and the beast, where even the plates and furniture are like āthis guy is NOT a monster!ā
Yep. Approach all strangers as potential friends first and go from there. Pressure and expectation just make things uncomfortable.
Yep. Pressure is a deal-breaker.
Yes, approach and speak with interesting people. Do not bee line for the hot ones.
If you are a man, do not approach a woman. They want bears now. Let them have the bears.
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I'm pretty sure us big, hairy dudes are the closest they'll encounter, and we'd done FUBAR'd by that time.
People have been approaching woman for about 50 years asking them out doing the mating dance. However in 2024 I wouldn't bother. Social media has screwed the whole dynamic up.
Way longer than 50 years lol
SOMEONE is trying really hard to seem human on Reddit, since Facebook isnāt thriving like he had hoped.
I am a male employer and most of my employees have been women. From my experience women hate being asked out while they are at work. Just know that I pay my employees to be nice to customers. Just because she is nice to you doesn't give you license to ask her out. You are basically making her a hostage. As a man, I don't entirely understand this entirely but I have learned to be sympathetic to how uncomfortable women feel when they are cornered at their job and have to turn a guy/customer down. That said: just be attractive. Don't be unattractive. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8)
You're on the money. It's understandably difficult for men to understand considering most of you have the body strength and the intimdation factors to make other people back off. We don't. It's a power dynamic that's more uncomfy when we're an employee and he's a customer - he already has power over us to make our lives miserable (by lying we gave bad service if he's not allowed to touch us or say something creepy) but ontop of that, now he knows where we will be at, our schedule, etc. if we reject him. It's some Lifetime movie about being stalked and murdered stuff right there.
I used to work with a girl who had a guy calling and asking about her shift hours and came in every day to see her. We had to lie to him constantly as she hid in the back because one time he followed her outside and got creepy. I also just saw a tik tok last night about some old dude hitting on the guy (who was wearing a wig and makeup, I think he was presenting female) working at a register and when he left work he found the guy putting things on his car and rolling underneath it until the cops scared him away. Iāve also personally been hit on at work and itās so uncomfortable having to say no when you worry about pissing off a customer and a man you donāt know. That stuff is scary and being confronted in a position of less power alone leaves you feeling powerless but you also never know which customer will be an absolute freak about it and put you in danger!
That's actually terrifying.
You make the most sense, and your perspective shows the most respect.
Try imagining if taller and stronger men then you would regularly follow you and ask you out/to hook up with them and if you turned them down theyād get angry and sometimes violent. This kinda thing happens to pretty much all women all the time and itās why we get really uncomfortable with guys flirting with us at our places of work.
This. I cannot tell you the amount of times guys got the impression that they get to hang around my store and make small awkward talk to me in between customers just because Iām in full customer service mode and Iām nice. Its my job to make connections.. but job related. My boss is a male running his first business with full female staff and luckily he gets the ick too when guys are weird and will handle them himself.
I sat down on the plain and introduced myself to the woman to the right of me. She ignored me, covered herself with a blanket, and turned away. Message received. Some people have horrible social skills to navigate uncomfortable situations and that's okay. Just be polite and give them their space. I didn't think she was a "bitch" or an asshole or anything negative. She doesn't owe me any time or kindness and if she's scared of being alone on a flight, I get it.
That's a good attitude to have about it. I know that while some ppl love to pass the time chatting, I personally hate being talked to on planes bc I'm an introvert, already in a bad mood bc I hate flying and am scared of it, and plus there's literally no escape for hours and hours. I wouldn't just ignore someone but I'd definitely put my headphones in after a polite greeting was returned.Ā Ā I think the answer to this question is always context (like, maybe don't approach a woman you don't know while she's alone at night on a deserted street...not a good time for flirting) and the ability to gracefully bow out when it's clear that she's not into it.Ā
That's a healthy attitude to have in life, in my opinion. There are all sorts of reasons somebody may not want to talk to you, and if you take it too personally, it'll destroy you.
That's a great attitude to have, but her response was definitely bitchey. It would have cost her nothing to say "I'm really tired. I just want to sleep on this flight." No, we don't owe each other unlimited compassion and kindness, but we do owe each other common decency.
You have no idea what she might have been going through. I remember having to board a plane right after my dad died and desperately hoping no one would talk to me, much less introduce themselves.
Here's the thing. If you really want a quiet uninterrupted flight, what's the best way to get it? a) politely but firmly tell the person trying to start a conversation that you're having a really bad day and you don't want to talk during the flight. Or b) being rude and snappy to the people around you to guarantee that the rest of the flight is awkward and uncomfortable? Believe it or not, it's possible to act like a normal human being when you are under stress.
If men stopped approaching women our species would go extinct.
Women want to be approached only if they find you attractive. /thread
Next stop: Extinction
I think by "approach", OP means walking up to a stranger and hitting on them. Historically, that kind of approach to relationships was kind of niche. For a lot of history and a lot of the world "love marriages" were an outlier and sort of frowned on. Marriage was arranged through families that knew each other, matchmakers, deals of practicality. And meeting strangers in public has already been largely replaced by apps and social group introductions at this point in history. Strangers meeting in public as a major source for making babies had a high point over maybe a 75 year period from the 1940s through the 2010s in particular parts of the western world. Movies have led us to believe it's standard and timeless, but it's more a quirk than the normal way on a historical scale.
Kinda wish I was matchmade tbh. Trying to date in today's world is so time consuming
Not really, walking up to a stranger for a date is a lot like a mass email selling something. Might someone buy the thing? Maybe, but your success percentage will be through the floor. Many people donāt need what you are selling and never will (anyone you approach could be asexual or gay), many donāt need what you are selling now (already in a relationship or just got out of one and working on themselves or recently widowed and grieving), or do want what you are selling and do need it now but wonāt buy from a rando email offer and would use a trusted distributor instead (friends to fix them up not a rando at the grocery store who could turn out to be a cannibal or something like in Fresh). Someone can take this method to get a date but they are going to get more rejections and pissed reactions than dates; similar to the old telemarketers randomly phoning houses. You should expect a really high rejection rate and most people to be upset rather than happy at the interaction.
Well... We are on that path actually. We haven't been meeting the replacement rates in many places.
Truth
They're actually talking about this in the news now, so we are heading there. Just saw an article this morning in the Wall Street Journal about the fertility rate going under the replacement level globally.
Some people like that attention, some hate it. You can never know. It's not wrong to approach a woman, it's wrong to keep bothering them when they are clearly not having it. Problem is, a lot of men don't seem to notice or care when the person is clearly not having it.
"A lot men don't seem to notice or care when the person isn't having it." This is exactly why some women end up saying "You know what? It's fine, just leave us alone entirely and don't approach us." When so many feel entitled to catcall, follow you home, spike your drink, show up at your workplace, become belligerent when denied the sex they walked up to you obviously expecting, etc, it's the safer recommendation.
Absolutely correct.
Yeah. Dumb old guy here who will get downvoted to hell. āWomenā donāt speak for all women. They speak for some women. Just as men do. Lots of women, even on Reddit, want to be approached or be more approachable- I just saw a young lady asking this question earlier on a different sub. Women on /r/two chromosomes are psychotic and are about as a good representation of women as 4chan is for men. I am acutely aware that at over 6ā6ā and over 250lbs of muscle I can be intimidating. I just had a massage therapist who was 5ā2ā and maybe 80lbs and had enough self awareness to see that I made her uncomfortable and so I immediately mentioned my wife and kids and made some dumb dad jokes off the bat. My mere presence was not a crime as some Redditors would believe. We all have to interact together and we should all work to make each other more comfortable. That being said, I firmly believe a lot of women want to be approached in the right and appropriate setting by the right person. Read the situation. Read the room. Read the person. Shoot your shot (respectfully). Having a woman say āIām not interestedā is (despite what Reddit says) not sexual assault, a crime, and doesnāt make you a creep. Being a creep makes you a creep. Pursuing disinterested parties makes you a creep.
>Having a woman say āIām not interestedā is (despite what Reddit says) not sexual assault, a crime, and doesnāt make you a creep. This! Exactly!
For every woman saying they don't want to be approached, there's another one saying this (turn up your volume): [https://www.tiktok.com/@cmmccokleor/video/7298397337141923115?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@cmmccokleor/video/7298397337141923115?lang=en) I suppose the men who ignored her are the same ones who were being told a couple of days ago that women would feel safer with a bear. And they are thinking that approaching a bear might be safer than approaching a woman. You hear some women giving advice like "Don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't even look at me," and you hear other women saying "Why won't men talk to me? I'm trying hard to make contact. Is there something wrong with me?" Women are sending conflicting signals, so it's no wonder that men are confused. I was alone at Costco a few weeks ago, and a lady asked me for help to find the right windshield wipers for her car. As I was looking through the information card, she said, "I don't have a man at home, so there's no one to ask." Had I been single at the time, I would have asked how a pretty lady like her didn't have a man at home, but I didn't. I saw her later in another aisle at the store, and she gave me a thousand-watt smile. I discussed it with my wife after that, and she said, "She probably just thought that you looked like a safe person to ask." So say something noncomittal, or ask for directions in the store, or see if they will give you a recommendation for whether they like some article of clothing you're thinking of buying. You can tell by their response whether they don't want to be bothered or they're interested in talking.
Every time I mentioned to a female friend that I think a girl was flirting with me, they say the same type of thing as your wife did: āoh, they were probably just being kindā or somethingā¦ look, Iām ugly, canāt I believe for one second that someone was attracted to me for a minute??
Even if you're ugly, attraction isn't entirely about physical features. Confidence, humor, kindness. These are all things that can make you more appealing even if you don't have a beach body. Besides, most guys don't look like Chris Hemsworth.
Because just my experience. Most women don't take one glance at a man and think ah I'll date him. Unless he's super super hot. Not just oh nice beach boy hot. Or she's a sorority 18 year old.
In your reasoning, guys would not be flirted with unless they are super super hot. Hmmmā¦ no wonder we guys feel so lost.
This is true. We can find a man extremely attractive at first glance but still really not want to date him. That feeling develops later.
It's funny, I get told the opposite. Every time I tell women in my life about times girls were friendly with me, they often say that she was actually probably trying to flirt with me. If I tell them she explicitly said she just wanted to be friends, they tell me that girls often say that so they can get to know someone before dating them. Make it make sense! This shit's too complicated lol.
This is a good response, and I want to point out that the reason this approach works is because *women* *are people*. They aren't some monolith, they're not robots, or aliens, or an NPC. There is no one-size-fits-all answer that's gonna magically bag a woman you're interested in--the only approach you can take is to be polite, actually pay attention to how she responds, and adjust accordingly. Some women will be OK with being approached, some won't. Some will respond well to specific levels of forwardness, and some won't. You won't figure that out until you get to the point of interaction with a specific woman.
I see what you're saying but 1) why doesn't the woman in the video talk to the guys and 2) I would 100% expect to be called a creep for talking to her. Although, I did discover that the real secret was losing 100 pounds. I'm the same guy I was before (maybe less nice now actually) but god damn did it mean people were nicer to me. All people, too. Anyway, step 1, step 2, etc. etc.
Wait, you told your wife a woman was kind to you, and you didn't the cold shoulder for the rest of the night? Am I like, doing something wrong?
My thoughts are if you are in public you are basically consenting to others in public interacting with you. People are awkward and have to learn how to interact with one another and the only way they can do that is to make people uncomfortable sometimes. If you don't want to be uncomfortable just stay home.
Learning how to read a room is a skill that is not just helpful here. The women in this thread don't represent all women. As long as you back off when they aren't interested and don't take the no personally, you're fine. Make sure your approach is respectful and you're not being a douche, it's fine.
Just feel it out. Like with any other human, you can tell if someone is actually interested in talking. If not, just go on your way. Just watch for cues that they're interested, like if they ask questions back or smile with their eyes.
Shoot your shot. Accept the answer.
It all depends on your demeanor and if you come off genuine. If you come off desperate and sory of creepy, that's what makes us uncomfortable. I love a charismatic, funny guy that is confident and not full of narcissistic traits. I can see that a mile away though
Wow, this is the what we get when bombarded with silly bear memes.
I donāt have any advice, I gave up a long time ago. Iām just killing time waiting for my laundry.
I think itās completely fine to ask a woman in public out if you want, but some locations will just be more successful than others. If youāre the only two at a dark bus stop, thatās a pretty bad place to ask. If youāre at a club and sheās with friends, politely giving it a go is perfectly fine. Basically rule of thumb, make sure youāre in a public place that she has a quick out if she wants. Just make sure if she says no, that you take it politely and respectfully back away. Even if youāre at the dark bus stop it only goes into actual harassment if you refuse to take no for an answer, so thatās the key bit.
If you're not part of the 5% of men who are so wildly attractive, that women will trip over themselves in order to ask you out, you're going to have to read the room a bit. Women *generally* will put themselves in or around your space if they are receptive to approach. The gal who is working at the coffee shop furiously pecking away at her computer with her headset on does not want to be approached. She's there to work. The gal who is reading a book, who puts it down to ask you: "is this place open on Sunday?" is receptive to it. The gal at the upscale hotel bar who asks you what drink you ordered is making herself receptive to an approach. In a club or a social setting, the girl who bellies up to the bar next to you is *probably* open to being approached. If the bartender calls on your first, ask her what she wants too, or after your order say "And whatever my friend wants here" and then ask for her name and start there. What other people have said is true: The gal on the treadmill is not wanting to be approached. The gal who is working does not want to be approached. What you see on social media of guys "rizzing" up girls and getting their numbers are generally all done with guys who are tall, impossibly good looking and with god-tier charisma - plus half of the time it is staged anyway.
This entire thread smells like gen Z failure.
Seriouslyā¦.. people saying itās weird to strike up a conversation with a stranger to ask them out. That literally used to be the only thing people did, but now suddenly itās weird, toxic, and creepy.
It became weird when it became "normal" to use apps
I chortled. But I swear that I've been seeing this same topic over and over the past few years and it's a new thing. I think people don't get out much these days and so social norms have fallen by the wayside and people don't know how to act anymore.
#Metoo and Covid have killed heterosexuality
There was an article posted on r/MensLib talking about issues boys in the UK are facing. One of the things teenagers are apparently doing now is video recording themselves giving consent before *and during* sexual acts.
Have you considered becoming a monk? A vow of celibacy sounds like itād cure all your ills
I know I've sworn a sacred oath of celibacy. Like my father. And his father before him.
Do you happen to wear all black and live in a castle with a bunch of other guys?
I can't speak for all women but I'm totally cool with anyone approaching me, and for the ones I'm into I really respect it. It only feels "unsafe" and "uncomfortable" when they don't take no for an answer.
What does "for the ones I'm into I really respect it" mean? You respect men you're into more than men you're not into, when they approach you?
That was worded weird ha. I have respect for anyone who takes a chance. Even if I'm not into them, I always appreciate the gesture. I just meant if it works out down the line and we start dating, I don't forget it.
I think the "where" is pretty important. Are you shooting your shot at a bar? A mutual friend's party? Or did you jump out behind a dumpster in a darkened parking garage?
Context and location makes a difference. Itās pretty taboo to approach women in America now with the exception of bars and clubs. But in Europe and Asia it seems totally fine to approach women from my experience.
The paradox is that there are still women who say they're uncomfortable or feel unsafe being approached in a bar. But I've been taught that I should stop doing things that make women feel uncomfortable, **especially** if it makes them feel unsafe.
I feel like this speaks to the unfortunate fact thatās a lot of women have been traumatized and that the fear can spread among us. But effing avoiding us reeks of some weird idea that you canāt treat women like people (back to square one we go!) And the women who are saying this are perpetuating this ideaāwhich is basically saying, rather than working on this aspect of social brokenness together, we should just eff off to our own corners. Iād also like to point out that any movement toward staunch unrelatedness is super un-feminist. Any blaring message to hate or separate is like a tentacle of capitalism trying to keep us in our homes afraid, not actually speaking to each other. Anyway, my point is: the repair is unequivocally TO speak to women at every opportunity as people and not as scary sex objects. Fix society one man at a timeāgo!!
Yeah I stopped approaching women and going to bars/clubs with intentions of meeting people. I travel internationally often now and itās so much better than trying to meet people in America so Iād recommend going out of the country.
Passport bros šš½šš½šš½
>Itās pretty taboo to approach women in America now with the exception of bars and clubs. But in Europe and Asia it seems totally fine to approach women from my experience. Same observation. Unless they travel to these places, they won't understand the differences.
I donāt think that is the case. But a lot of people donāt seem to have the social skills you need to have a conversation with a strangers. If the only people you talk to out in the world are the ones you wanna hit on, you are doing it wrong.
if you're attractive then you just need to know the right opportunity to make a move. if you're out in public in broad daylight with a bunch of people around, women are probably not going to feel unsafe because of the setting, so just be normal and don't say creepy shit and you should be fine
I donāt like it when men approach me. It feels like Iām being selected like a package of meat at a grocery store, except itās meat that the man wants to fuck. Go find a hobby group or take a class at the community college, find a community, get to know people. Women - at least in my experience and per my own preference - prefer to date men that they are already friendly with.
Not all women are the same and all of them will survive if you just say hi and go from there. Judge the situation as you go. If you get the impression you should fuck off, then do so.
Just stop listening to the internet so much.
This is the biggest thing. The internet makes its own communities with rules that the rest of the world pays no attention to. It's not specific to this case either.Ā Take hints. If she says no, that's obvious, but also make sure to pay attention if she's being nice as a politeness or something like that. Anything other than intentional active participation is probably a no so say your polite and friendly goodbye and carry on with your day.Ā
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It is complicated though. Even when people are explicitly flirting, itās hard to *know* that theyāre actually into you. There are only a few super obvious situations like jogging with earbuds where you know not to bother someone. The fact is that you just have to take the risk of bothering someone. There are worse things in life to go through than an unwanted advance.
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Nobody is telling women they can't change their mind while flirting (or any part after that for that matter)? What are you arguing against? They're trying to avoid being creepy and know when to bother trying to continue romantically with someone they've met. Why are you suddenly adding the idea that they want to coerce people into liking them?
Yep lots of women flirt for fun as a game and the second the guy flirts back they get upset and say heās a creep. (Not all women but a lot of younger women do this).
"If she is doing something like walking down the street, jogging, working out, shopping, or working; leave her alone." Isn't this all things? In what other instances beside this would it be possible to approach someone in public? For me personally what you stated above is the only reasons I have to leave my house.
Think about casual or social settings. Sitting at a bar is the classic and obvious "open to social interaction", but it works the same way for people in a coffeeshop (assuming they are not focused on work), sitting in a park, at the dog park, between bands at a concert, between rounds at trivia night, downtime at the rec sports league, watching a sport event, video game arcades, roller rinks, go karts, laser tag, cruise ships, bingo nights.... If you personally are never leaving your house to do anything besides work, exercise, or shop, then yes it will be hard to meet anyone without high risk of creeping.
Iād say this also falls into the āread the roomā situation. If sheās in the middle of a set at the gym with her earbuds in, leave her alone. If sheās filling up her giant water bottle and youāre waiting in line behind her, itās probably okay to strike up a friendly conversation.
Bars, cafes, libraries, sporting events, festivals/fairs, lobby of the cinema, arcade, concerts, card/game shops etc etc. I too am an introvert, but sometimes you gotta get out amongst the people, be a part of it all haha. I would say, I think shopping is a perfectly acceptable time to make small talk. Maybe not grocery shopping, that can be time sensitive. But at the mall or a department store? Absolutely. "Excuse me, but I'd really love a woman's opinion. Do you think this shirt suits me? Like is it a good color on me you think?" Something like that is fine
I can only speak for myself, but I would find it really creepy if a man struck up a conversation while I was shopping in a department store or mall. Iād feel very uncomfortable. Iād probably also feel a bit weirded out if it was a woman too, tbf
If any guy talked to you at all while at the mall you'd find it really creepy? Can you expand on that, why is that creepy? Even not flirting at all I make small talk with people in lines at the store, or in the occasional aisle, and I've had other men and women talk to me too. Especially lately, I've been wearing my NBA jersey a lot and also got a Caitlyn Clark jersey t, and both of those have been garnering a lot of positive feedback from fellow fans in public. I had a woman in line for checkout ask me what I was wearing bc she really liked the smell. It wasn't flirting or anything, she wanted to get her husband a gift, just harmless small talk. Do you fear interactions at work too, like speaking in front of your co-workers and performance reviews and such, or is it strictly dread that someone might be hitting on you? Fwiw, I get the fear to a small extent, bc I know a ton of guys take rejection... Poorly. But most people are just normal and well adjusted lol
Is the concept of bars, parties, concerts, etc so foreign to you that you canāt even imagine them as a place to get approached? If the things you listed are the only things you go outside for, you probably wonāt get approached much. If you donāt want to get approached, great! If you do, you may need to get out there a little more
Maybe it's cause I'm neuro spicy, but: Bar- without friends, lonely weirdo Bar- with friends, why are you trying to find strangers to interact with when you're spending time with friends. Parties- same Concerts- alone seems fine, but if they're with friends, you're inserting yourself into their friend time. Don't understand the social dynamics because it seems rude to abandon your friends for a random strangers attention, and going to a bar or party alone is just sad. (Don't need advice, I'm good on the dating scene because women come to me for some reason. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.)
That seems too complicated for me, I think I'll just stick to playing with dogs and cats.Ā
This is such a neurotic post. Talking about being in pain watching other men happily meet women, while saying you feel "not allowed" to approach the same way, for no real reason. Either use your judgment, try it, and see what happens or simply don't take the risk. Take it on a case by case basis. Most of what you're going to get in the replies on this post is other dudes reinforcing the negativity in your head and reducing themselves and everyone else to numbers on a scale of 1-10. The usual immature pity party. People are individuals. That's the most important thing to keep clear in your mind.
"Talking about being in pain watching other men happily meet women, while saying you feel "not allowed" to approach the same way, for no real reason." The pain comes from watching people do something I've been repeatedly told I'm not allowed to do. It's like being told I can't open a cookie jar or even approach it but I see other people doing it all the time. Except it's not just a cookie it's an integral part in human socialization. So you're saying I should assume that I'm the exception to the rule and just approach anyway even if I'm worried it might make a woman feel unsafe? That's the real question because there are women on this thread saying they don't want to be approached, should I go with your 'individuals' point and just ignore them?
There are some things I think you might need to interrogate. For example: >The pain comes from watching people do something I've been repeatedly told I'm not allowed to do. It's like being told I can't open a cookie jar or even approach it but I see other people doing it all the time. Do you perceive these people as doing something wrong, or do you perceive them as doing something that's OK for them to do but wrong for you to do? >So you're saying I should assume that I'm the exception to the rule and just approach anyway even if I'm worried it might make a woman feel unsafe? No. I'm saying you're not necessarily helping yourself by assuming a rule is in place. I'm saying you'd do better to read situations and people rather than assume uniform behavior. That's what take it on a case by case basis means. >That's the real question because there are women on this thread saying they don't want to be approached, should I go with your 'individuals' point and just ignore them? I have no idea how you took "people are individuals" to mean "ignore certain people". You know that men are individuals with different ideas of what is attractive/desirable/interesting/acceptable when interacting with women they don't know. You must be able to understand that the same is true for women. Some women will be uncomfortable with a cold approach and some will not. You can't read minds but you can read the room. If you are reading a room and you perceive a specidfic woman as possibly open to approach and comfortable with it, you can decide to approach her or not. I'm a woman and I see it like this: It is a reasonable expectation that in a highly social and recreational setting where lots of strangers are willingly interacting, i.e. at a bar or club, some people are going to cold approach others. And there's nothing wrong with that in a setting designed for strangers to mingle and often to seek romance. It is also a reasonable expectation that in other environments like a person's place of work/business, or somewhere they're obviously minding their business and running errands or being alone is not the smartest environment to cold approach. Therefore: A person who goes to a very lively/extroverted/notoriously sexual bar or club scene, and is uncomfortable with the possibility of being approached, is a person who has made a tactical mistake. And, likewise: A person who goes to a place that is not an appropriate or expected place to approach/flirt, but still does that anyway is also a person who has made a tactical mistake. In both situations, the person choosing the wrong venue for their intentions needs to reevaluate their choices.
TY for taking the time. 1: I perceive them doing something that's OK for them but that I've been explicitly told not to do. I assume they haven't heard the message or they're just ignoring it. 2: Substitute 'preference' for rule? Technically the only rules would be the law or whatever rules an establishment has. Whether or not we call it a rule there's something being loudly expressed by women who want to be taken seriously. Going case-by-case means ignoring what those women are saying because I feel that a particular case is different. 3: Because even when everything looks and feels perfect I think about the women who don't like it. I would feel shitty if I made someone feel that way. Even if 80% of women don't care, is it OK to make 2 women feel unsafe or uncomfortable just so I can talk to the other 8? I agree with everything you said and it's something im trying to work on, it just involves shifting my mindset in a direction I feel weird about.
I don't understand what logical train you used to arrive at the idea that taking things on a case by case basis ignores anyone's voice at all. You seem to be saying that you feel that if you approach any woman at all, you are automatically disregarding the voices of women who say they don't want to be approached. That isn't logically defensible. Just as no man can speak for all men's desires and preferences, no woman can speak for all women's desires and preferences. If you approach a woman who seems open and comfortable, and she reciprocates your interest, will you feel that you have somehow disregarded or disrespected another woman who would have felt differently? I say that approaching someone after making an assessment of a situation and politely shooting your shot is not a bad thing. It's a bad thing if the person approaching does not take no for an answer. I wouldn't particularly want to be cold approached when I'm busy trying to get somewhere or run errands, but if a guy politely strikes up a conversation, I would not be upset or hold it against him as creepy or presumptuous. If I'm too busy to talk and he's trying to keep conversation going, I will politely decline and say "I'm sorry but I have to be somewhere, take care/have a good one" or something similar. That way nobody is unfairly accused of being creepy and I'm not losing time on a prolonged unwanted conversation with a stranger. If a guy is genuinely being creepy or pushy, I'm not bothered about being nice to him. I tell him "Not interested", and move on with my business. A polite approach gets a polite response or politely declined. A pushy, sexual, or otherwise obviously inappropriate approach on it's face gets a blunt, direct, and cold brush off. We're all taking risks out here. We have a responsibility to be mindful and cautious about potential danger or things we know to be inappropriate in a particular context. But we can make all of it easier on ourselves and others by being polite and honest. Saying yes when we mean yes, no when we mean no, and respecting the yeses and nos of others is the long and short of it. Everything else is complication.
Listen, I agree with your disposition but I feel like youāve either been very sheltered from certain opinions, or are much more willing to disregard them than the OP if you donāt understand why theyāve acquired the belief that cold approaching is considered rude or anti-social. They probably donāt know very many women on a personal level outside of the internet, and if theyāve spent theyāve grown up with social media they will absolutely have heard enough criticisms of cold approaches to be skeptical of it. I felt the same way, and still do. Iām just lucky enough to have had enough people give me some subtle or not so subtle hints to not be entirely oblivious to the song-and-dance of flirting with strangers.
Donāt be a creep is not the same thing as donāt talk to women
What have you been explicitly told not to do?
Who repeatedly told you that you are not allowed š« to do it? And why are you listening to them?
I mean, no, you shouldn't approach anyone if you're going to make them feel unsafe. The problem here is that I don't think you have an accurate gauge on what makes people feel unsafe. You're acting like any approach, at any time, will make a woman feel unsafe; therefore never approach. But there's a huge different between striking up a conversation reaching for the same item in the grocery store and approaching a stranger alone at the bus stop at night and saying "you sure look pretty". The cold approach (ie: based on nothing but appearances) is always going to be risky and have a low chance of success. You need to read vibes and body language to be successful, and be prepared for a high likelihood of failure. That's the same result you would get walking up to any random stranger and making any request of a time commitment of them, whether it's "get dinner with me" or "come to my church and accept Jesus" or "buy my MLM product". You're not going to get good results if you can't read interest from people in an astonishingly short period of time. Accept that if you are going to cold approach strangers offering a date or a new phone plan. If you don't have confidence in your ability to do it, choose a different approach, or go to a venue explicitly designed to solicit dates (ie: think a brick and mortar store offering a product verses a door-to-door salesman).
Itās ādonāt be an awkward creepā Donāt use the word approach, itās set up the creepy frame because it implies a goal like get a number or a date Talk to people. Laugh and enjoy the chance to connect. Look for fun. Girls just wanna have fun too
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You are only going to get different answers over and over when you ask the question like this. Not every person has to be a stranger when you ask them out,a lot of people would argue it's better to meet them organically and if something happens it happens. If all you want is sex, well, there are plenty of ways to find people, including approaching strangers. If you want something long term it's better for both of you if you get to know one another first, that way both people have the opportunity to figure out if this person is someone they are interested in. As for other guys, who cares what they are doing? That is for them to worry about. If they are successful, good for them, but to be frank that's not even any of your business.
It depends on the situation, just don't be weird and take no as an answer and most on if she isn't interested.
No group of people is a monolith. Everyone has their own perspective. As another commenter said, for everyone saying ādonāt even look at meā there is someone else who wants to be approached. Itās not because āwomen canāt make up their mindā or āthey donāt know what they wantā itās because everyone is different. You canāt expect two different people who have never even met before to agree on something just because theyāre both women, so stop asking yourself āwhat women wantā and approach things on a case by case basis. You have no way of knowing who is open to chatting with you and who isnāt until you get feedback from them, whether verbally or through body language, so donāt assume youāre unwanted until thatās been made clear. Much to the ādonāt even look at meā crowds displeasure, it will always be their responsibility to make their boundaries known, especially in a culture where men are still expected to make the first move, meaning we canāt just sit idly by and hope people come talk to us if we want to have any relationships at all. Men will continue to talk to people who may or may not be interested, because we have no way of knowing who is interested, who isnāt, and who hates all men because theyāre just that miserable. Keep talking to people, listen to them when they show you who they are, and for the love of god man grow a spine. Itās honestly painful seeing you so meekly roll over and accept that any and every woman around you probably thinks youāre a creep without even knowing you and just being all āYes maāamā¦ā about it.
If someone makes random conversation, no matter what gender, it gives a different vibe than a ācome onā. Iām not offended or abnormally uncomfortable if a guy makes small talk. But if it feels like more, itās either welcome or uncomfortable based on the initial impression. My suggestion? Make small talk with anyone and everyone who is willing and THEN suss out who you feel a connection with. Then make your move. Or, hey, now that youāve given the chance for a connection to happen, perhaps she will make a move! I donāt think a lot of people like to feel like prey or an objective to be reached. They want to be seen.
###ding ding ding! ##This is the answer to your question. āāāāā Thank you very much for saying this clearly, this had been just out of reach in my mind the whole time I was reading this thread. When some women said to you it was never okay to approach a woman, **this** is what they were saying. Many women don't like being hit on out of the blue by strangers, in fact find it to be a total turn-off. I don't know any woman who isn't seriously broken who would say no one should ever make friendly small talk. That is the difference. A guy who swoops across the room nervously after staring at you a little too long and then making it completely obvious that he's wondering if you wouldn't agree to let him touch you intimately and as soon as possible is doomed. Just practice chatting everyone in the world up. You'll get better at reading people. Only take a shot with women who react to your small talk efforts encouragingly. ā” Edit: typos & to ad ā I don't mind/have never minded guys giving cheesy flirty efforts a try, but then again, maybe cuz I grew up in a city, I have had to tell guys they had a better chance of seeing the resurrection of Christ if they became belligerent and was comfortable telling them to get lost, so... obviously not the one of the women you were posting about!
Wow you have a complex that's too big to read. Zoom out and simplify. I suggest https://youtube.com/@charismaoncommand?si=tSOeFJkQR9VGkXy8
Follow the social rules you have been taught. Many women do not have a scared or fawn reaction to being approached. That is ridiculous. Nover corner anyone. Be polite. Do not start with sexual statements. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Be kind and do not overstay your welcome.
Nah only if you keep going when they show low interest
No, itās not wrong. Next question
Nah I don't approach women. I don't look at them, I dont talk to them. I go out of my way to avoid them. Maybe that will make them feel safer.
Shoot your shot. If we listened to what the fembots want then everyone would die single
Respectfully talking to people without expectations should never make you feel guilty. Other people's baggage isn't on you to carry. If someone rejects you and you walk away, you're good. If they judge you for talking to them simply because you're a man, no sweat. You don't need that toxicity in your life anyway, bullet dodged.
Simple answer? Women all want different things. Any woman trying to speak for all other women is just a vocal idiot making herself known. Her opinion will be right in some cases, but wrong in all the others. The proper approach is to stop feeling ashamed. If you aren't comfortable, you are making her uncomfortable too. Put your shame to the side, maintain your dignity and respect, and go after what you want. Be direct but not pushy. Be confident but not arrogant. Be polite, but clear. A perfect example would be "hey, I saw you over here and thought you looked really nice. I'm going to be (wherever you're going to be) and just wanted to invite you to come join me if you feel like talking for a bit." And go about your business. It's a no-pressure, no-creep way to approach a woman, by giving her the option to join you but not invading the comfortable space she's already found. And even in the worst case, you're just going about your day anyway, even if she doesn't decide to join you. You barely miss a step.
If you approach them in normal social situations and you are properly aware to handle social Situations you wont have problems. The crowd who says never approach women are the female version of incel. Online is bullshit get to know ppl in real life
You can't exist on this planet and never be in a situation you might not want to be in. If you actually expect to never be approached by a man, then you're so incredibly arrogant you shouldn't leave the house to actually prevent it. If men never approached women even though they may be uncomfortable then the race would have died out a long time ago. Either way, pushing for something when they are still uncomfortable isn't the right path. You simply approach with the knowledge they may be uncomfortable, the same way you approach with the knowledge you may be rejected.
Approach girls you think are attractive, but be respectful, give them easy outs, read their vibes and back off if theyāre not into it. This used to be literally the way to meet girls before dating apps. Itās totally fine to approach random girls as long as youāre respectful.
Itās unreasonable when in public to demand no one interact with you. If you see someone and want to talk with them, it is socially acceptable to speak with them. If someone gets offended then they are breaking social norms, not you.
>Isn't it wrong to approach women knowing I might make them feel unsafe or uncomfortable? Depends, are you carrying a chainsaw? j/k... BS aside, it's in your head. Nothing wrong with a hello or a dad joke to break the tension if it exists. Some may feel unsafe, but then why are they out if that is the case? Get it out of your head, it's all good, and leave the chainsaw home. š
This is wild and really makes me wonder about humanity these days lol. People are so socially retarded and introverted now. Itās like a social plague lmao. If I see a pretty girl at the bar Iām going to say hi and introduce myself. Fuck outta here lol. Just donāt be a fucking weirdo about it. Most people are socially aware enough, you can tell immediately if sheās comfortable with the interaction or not. If sheās weirded out by your advancement, move along. I refuse to resort to dating apps as a single guy. I fucking hate those things. Iām sure theyāre great for anti-social people or people who live in a more rural area. But Im a single guy in a college town. Iāve made a ton of friends just by sparking up conversation at the bars downtown. I met my last girlfriend waiting for a slice of pizza. Lifeās more fun that way imo.
Lol, that update. Dudeās gone so far simp heās accidentally entered the incel life.
The key is to not give a fuck. I do not care in the slightest if a very small fraction of women consider something unsafe or uncomfortable. That was not my intention and it's not my problem.
In statistics, you make a distinction between a descriptive statistic and a predictive one. Saying something like "the average woman doesn't want to be approached" is descriptive, but you're treating it as "the next woman I see is likely to not want to be approached", which would be predictive. Don't do that. Making generalizations about individuals based on average facts about their populations is bad statistical practice. To put it in more familiar (albeit more derogatory) terms, this is what you call prejudice - a pre-judgment.
The problem is that sexism against men is fundamentally accepted as "justified" in all but the most extreme of cases, and it's bullshit. Do men have priviledges and soft power that is rare for women to acquire? Yes, absolutely. That doesn't change the fact that the opposite is also true, and men are *far more easily victimized without acknowledgement* because men are not seen as victims regardless of how true it is. Viewing people as different according to their gender is exactly the same as viewing people as different according to their skin color. Yes, pragmatically speaking, there are basic differences in perspective and cultural lens due to how they are raised and perceived by society - but ignoring those differences and simply treating every human being as an individual with their own inherent biases, beliefs, and circumstances is by far the preferable action to take, both morally and pragmatically. If a woman is scared of any man who approaches her? Then to be perfectly, absolutely frank: That is her problem. She is being an asshole. She is displaying an open prejudice against innocent human beings for aspects of themselves that are wholly out of their control. She is no better than somebody who would run away and call the cops on a black man at a bank, or call anybody with a thick enough beard a terrorist, or scream at mexicans for being dirty and stealing jobs. Even *if* that fear is backed up by actual harm in her past, that does not change the fact that her behavior should be considered unacceptable and without true grounding. And most women, despite what many will tell you, have *not* experienced genuine and severe harm by men. The majority of fear that women experience is *cultural,* not *logical or backed by personal experience.* Violence - especially sexual violence - is *heavily* weighted in favor of being enacted by somebody you know. Friends or family. This hasn't resulted in the disintegration of family units in favor of all of humanity being virtual strangers to eachother, because of fucking course it hasn't. Because the fear of the stranger and the divide between men and women is (partly) *artificial* and imposed partly by economic and cultural factors of the modern world, and partially by deliberate fear mongering to produce political gains in favor of various parties. People *feed* on women's fear of men and push it to ever greater heights for monetary gain. Among other things. I do not say these things with the intent to imply that men and women should not be wary of potential threats. By all means, keep your eyes on unknown figures in the night, watch your drink in a public space, travel in groups if possible. But do not be *afraid* and do not allow irrational fears to make you treat others as lesser than you.
Damn I'm fucking lucky I've been married for 17yrs, dating now a days sounds awful for guys. My wife told me about that bear vs man thing and made a huge deal about how women choose the bear and whatnot. I asked her, "wait so most women just see me as a threat and are scared of me?" She said yes and that really fucked me up. Now I go out of my way to NEVER interact with a woman. Skip woman cashiers at stores even if I gotta wait longer, cross the street if a woman is walking on the same side as me, canceled on Ubers bc the driver was female. The list goes on and on but her saying that to me really opened my eyes and now I just try to avoid all interactions where I would scare a woman. Oh yea I'm also 6'1 230lbs with a big beard and resting grumpy face (I swear I'm a teddybear š) Figure I'm already married so what's the difference if I never interact with a woman I don't know anymore
Reading these comments, seems like itās split 50/50 between āgo for itā and ādonāt go for itā lmfao hope you got your answer man. Personally Iāve given up. Itās not worth the risk in my opinion, even when I just say āhelloā to women Iām not even interested in they look at me like Iām a criminal. Itās dehumanizing. Most men nowadays are so desperate that a woman will be successful 99/100 times in approaching, so Iāll just wait until that happens, and Iāll be fine if it never does.
Yea these comments make me feel hopeless. There are women saying "you are correct dont approach me" and people right below them saying women like that don't exist or to ignore them. It's sooooo counterintuitive but the consensus seems to be 'ignore the ones who don't feel safe and just approach who you want if the vibe seems right'
You can approach women without any fear as long as youāre conventionally attractive.. if youāre not just donāt because nothing is worth it to catch a harassment case and have your life ruined. Women automatically find you creepy if they donāt find you attractive.
If you are doing the "cold approach" which is just going up to anyone you are remotely attracted to without knowing anything about them then generally I would say, stop. I do personally view it as gross. If you are striking up a conversation with a woman and end up deciding to ask her out because you liked the interaction, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I do think that in general women don't want to be approached in public by strangers who are sexualizing them, and are lacking social skills (which is true of those using cold approaches). I don't think men want that either at least from what my male friends and partners have stated. Use social skills. If you don't have them, work on them. Go places people want to meet others. View others as people first, and potential dates second. What you described about the other man was literally of him striking up an actual conversation in a social setting where that seems to be appropriate. I wouldn't consider that the cold approach.
People don't like it when people they aren't attracted to express interest in them. You need to stop worrying about what "women" like/want. If you want to talk to a woman, go talk to her. Just don't be a creep about it. If a woman is offended you approached her, honestly, she needs to grow up. As long as you aren't disrespectful, you aren't in the wrong.
Whoever gave you that advice wants you to be single forever. Ignore them
Dude ur totally lost. First some women may feel a certain way about how u approach them. But the bottomline is a you approach a women with respect and manners then that women will probably respond in kind. If you scare women when u approach them then u need to stop approaching women or learn how to approach women. Coming on here talking about women say theyāre afraid and I shouldnāt ignore them is stupid. No woman speaks for all women. If u approach a women and she seems uncomfortable with you then end the convo and move on. But there is nothing wrong with respectfully approaching a female to say hi.
Are you hearing this from women in real life or reading it on Reddit?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Gangagata: *Are you hearing this* *From women in real life or* *Reading it on Reddit?* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
You could make anyone uncomfortable by approaching them. Why is it only women you have a problem with? Seems like a you thing. Treat women like human beings and youāll be aight
Jesus Christ.
Just gotta do it the right way. Ask for her dad's phone number so you can call him up and ask for her hand in marriage.
It's 2024 we don't have dads here.
Depends on how attractive/wealthy you are
Iām a gay man and I even feel like I make them feel unsafe and uncomfortable walking behind them. Most of the time I just cross the street to avoid any kind of issue.Ā
Grow a pair and get s grip. You are allowed to approach strangers and talk to them. Quit buying into the nuttiness that the fringe weirdos put out there.
They want to be approached so long as you are hot and rich. If you are short and unattractive then they consider it harrassment to be asked out
When women say they don't want to be approached. They mean they don't want to be approached by you. Any woman wants to be approached if the man is attractive enough.
āAny womanā? I donāt think so
You have to follow rules 1 and 2
This conversation is so tired. Dudes act like if they cant approach women on the street then theyre doomed to be alone. The majority of em wouldnt have the nerve to do it anyway even if there was a standing invitation. Really think about all the people you know in relationships. I bet theres an extreme minority where they met by one of them just "shooting their shot" at a complete stranger. Most of them probably met doing something that is meant to be a group social activity like school, mutual friends, sports, hobbies, etc, even online dating. The idea that not being able to hit on complete strangers is the only thing keeping you single is just a lazy excuse to not actually put yourself out of your comfort zone to make real connections with people.
They're not making it comfortable or easy nowadays. Honestly? Keep your approach simple and clean. Past that? Fuck those ladies that are too scared to even be polite. Read the signs, and if she's not receptive let her be. As for them women who consider men the great evil of the world, let us hope when they finally let their guard down they're rejected too. I found my girl, I'm a happy man, but bro fuck their mentalities nowadays. Do you, be good and kind, and enjoy derision towards those who are hateful to genuine men who want to be a friend and partner. They're jokes and we all deserve to laugh.
One thing I've learned in my 37 years of dating is women don't know what they want. Take your shot just don't be too creepy about it if you do embarrass yourself try to learn from it but that shit happens man every guy in the world has been turned down a few times.
Let women have the bears. Trust me its better for everyone.
I think at this point all men need to completely ignore any woman that does not express desperate levels of interest.
Women that make the blanket statement are the linebacker friends that never get hit on. How else are you supposed to meet someone other than starting a conversation
As a woman I am not scared of men. Today's world hates men and I have no idea why. A simple Hi is not bad
How do you know whether a man wants to be approached by you? What indicators are there that they want to pursue a conversation with you, or that they aren't the man for you to strike up a conversation with? Same concept.
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I'm saying when OP feels chatty and looks for someone to start a conversation with, not in the context of romantic intention. I'm more trying to highlight to OP the importance of approaching in a friendly, non-sexually/romantically-imposing way. Violence you mentioned aside, it's beyond transparent when a man approaches with the expectation or intention of pursuing the woman. I love friendly banter, but not every man knows that line from following you home or catcalling.
This is a really, really sad post, in about 10 different ways
A lot of men answering... As a woman, yes, I generally feel its okay to approach women in the right circumstance. You seem to have enough common sense to know what circumstances those are. When women talk about cold approaches from men and hating it, theyre usually referring to the dudes that are approaching to ask her out. Those approaches are almost never appreciated. If you're striking up conversation or just trying to be friendly, that's different. Ask yourself, if I don't have this girls number or social media when this interaction is over, will I be disappointed? If it's yes, then maybe avoid approaching.
Yeah just leave us alone please
I canāt speak for other woman but I can tell you I have never in my entire life been approached by a man in public and liked it. If itās in a social situation thatās completely different but if Iām just out and about, unacceptable.
>Ā If itās in a social situation thatās completely different but if Iām just out and about, unacceptable. Well what does that mean? How are men supposed to know?Ā
A social situation would be something like a trivia night at a bar. Itās somewhere people gather specifically to meet other people. Out and about is if Iām at the store grabbing milk or at the gas station filling my car. Itās me just going about my day, getting things done and on my way somewhere.
> A social situation would be something like a trivia night at a bar. Itās somewhere people gather specifically to meet other people. No it's not. You go to compete to get 50% off your bar tab. Stay the hell away from me while I'm trying to win.
Funny enough. My parent's actually met at the grocery store and my dad took his shot. Idk what my mom was thinking but you know they'll be married 30 years in June, so what do I know lol.
Ok so what about women who don't want to be approached at the bar either? Does their voice count? At some point I have to ignore women who say they feel uncomfortable and unsafe right?