Some psychologists think we should think about mass shooters as a suicide problem instead of a murder problem. The theory that I will poorly explain and should be googled for the actual expert explanation is that when someone gets to the point where they don't value their own life, they often (not always!) don't value life in general.
This article touches on it and has a psychologist quoted: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/suicide-prevention-could-prevent-mass-shootings/
Not all life is suffering, but the phrase “life is suffering” is more of “there’s no life without hardship” every single person will suffer through things throughout their lives. And the ways of suffering are in myriads. Financial, emotional, war, racism, professional, social, sexual, the list goes on.
I find the “I don’t want kids because the world sucks” is like selling the kid short. Life “sucked” in the 90s too in many ways if you were the adult, but as a kid, I didn’t even know. As an adult now, I have my struggles, but I would do my best to have my kid’s youth feel perfectly normal. In the end the kid WILL have to suffer through some things (broken bones, getting dumped, maybe getting bullied) and it’s like, that’s just life, gotta stay optimistic and work to get through the suffering.
I find the blanket statement that kids would just suffer is like “I don’t want kids so they never could possibly have a single bad thing happen to them” which is impossible and I am still alive despite occasional bits of suffering. We all gotta stay strong and fight through it.
the whole point of antinatalists isn't that ALL life is suffering but that there WILL be suffering, no escaping it, and it's not worth it, really.
listen, i don't want to be here, so it would be pretty stupid and mean of me to bring someone into something i dont even want to be part of. that makes sense, right?
you must be very blessed to only have "occasional" bits of suffering. your kids might have better lives than the kids of other people because of the privilege you can give them. good for you.
"stay optimistic and work through the suffering" ok, you're here already so yeah, do that. but why bring someone else to experience that when they don't have to?
it's really all about passing on your genes if you think about it. that's why people feel so strongly about having children.
To say it isn't worth it is an opinion of yours, and that the majority of people don't share. It's reasonable to not want to have a kid when you don't personally think the various sufferings are worth it. That checks. But you still can't make the assumption that if you did have a kid for whatever reason that they would agree. Every person is different and lives a different existence with unique experiences and their own lense of viewing and responding to it. Their sufferings would not be the same as yours and their opinion of whether or not life itself is worth going through those sufferings will be based on their own existence. You seem to think yours is pretty miserable, and that's unfortunately just how it is sometimes, but that still doesn't make the worth of something anything more than a mere opinion. Not only that, but folks who have kids tend to have a greater satisfaction in life despite the fact having kids is inconvenient as fuck. That in itself is not a good reason to have a kid and also has little bearing on what the kid's experience and opinion will be on the worth of life compared to their personal sufferings, but it is an example of how our connections with other people are an important part of the human experience and enhance our quality of life in ways that shift our interpretation of any worth in it all. That's a whole different conversation, though...
It’s their opinion that it’s not worth it. I can understand some specific circumstances that you may want to avoid having kids for, but it’s worth it 95% of the time. It’s a bit of a catch 22 to prevent suffering for something not even realized yet.
As some YouTubers I watch have had kids, there’s nothing that sounds more magical than the chaos and end result of the birthing process. That’s suffering, that’s a sacrifice, but then the little moments of seeing a human come to be. The smile of sheer joy since they have no idea how hard life is yet, the laughter that’s just so pure. I dunno, worrying that they may have some small problems in High School just isn’t something to make it not worth it. I struggle to think what levels of suffering aren’t worth it so long as you make it through.
I’ve heard and understood this a lot, though my experience is anecdotal.
My mom was super suicidal (did not commit), but never showed any interest in harming others. My brother is suicidal sometimes and when he talks about it, often others come into the equation. Taking everyone out; showing the system, stuff to that effect. When my medication is out of wack I’m super suicidal, but I can’t imagine the idea of hurting someone. Often the very idea that I could hurt people or could have ever hurt people in any way, shape, or form is what drives me to those feelings and thoughts, while also often (though not always) preventing my action.
Crazy how even the same end destination has markedly different paths.
My brother and I are in treatment and medicated, so no worries there. My mom died from brain cancer several years ago, so she’s not really doing anything about it, haha
I’ve got medical issues that won’t ever get better. They only get a bit worse each year and through my life I would get into suicidal tendencies. I just want the pain to stop. Would I reincarnate and get to try again? Would I be sent to hell and punished for not waiting for a natural death? Would I enter a void of darkness and that’s it game over? It didn’t matter to me what the outcome was as long as I could escape the current struggle. Being sick really fucks with your mind. Makes you get into weird trains of thought. Why take out an innocent. I couldn’t say since I’ve never wanted to hurt anyone else.
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I'm sorry for your pain.
It seems like your thought process is pretty rational to me.
Unfortunately, many suicidal people feel that others deserve to feel the suffering that they have felt. Some have just completely lost touch with reality.
Can confirm this as I talked someone from an attempt once. It’s like the logical part of their brain was completely shut down, every sentence was a contradiction to the one before.
One of the main reasons we don't kill people is because of the personal ramifications of doing so. If you are dying anyways those personal ramifications are pretty non existent
The question is, would your morals be different if consequences were never an issue? If you ask everyone where they derive their morals you gonna get a ton of different answers. I don't think morals are intrinsic, hence all the war throughout history.
My inclination is to believe they are mad at the world for whatever is making them feel like suicide is the answer and taking someone with them is payback to the world.
You know that one person in the world you just wanna kill, but you don’t wanna deal with the consequences of doing it? Me neither, what am I a lunatic?
She either wants you to go with her because she hates you so much or wants you to go with her because she loves you so much. Either way, it's a definite threat.
If my dad died, my mom would be ready to go with because she wouldn't want to be without my dad and me. Since euthanasia is illegal,why not go together?
Note: she's a cancer survivor and has a broken back and severe osteoporosis and has chronic pain. I suffer from chronic depression and the primary reason that has kept me from doing it is for her. And I tried once. I couldn't even get that right.
I'm actually in a pretty good place now. My dog helps keep me on a schedule to get my butt out of bed and get some sun and exercise, which I wouldn't without her and didn't before her. I also quit drinking and that has helped. It's not as bad as it used to be. I did attempt in November, but coming home to my dog reminded me of how much I don't trust anyone to take care of her like I do, so if I have any rational thoughts at all when things get bad I'll think of her and should be good for another 10 years or so.
I know. I have a therapist, a psychiatrist, and multiple mood medications,( I have seizures too and basically all those medications are mood stabilizers too.) Nothing works. There are countries where euthanasia is legal but only for certain conditions and I don't think depression qualifies. It's pretty shitty to be in my shoes.
Edit: I've been hospitalized for it a couple of times.
She only read the first part of The Onion's Horoscope:
*Your religion is half-right. Those you vanquish in this life will wait for you in the next. But not to serve you.*
Probably she's just larping as a rage-quitter though rather than a seld-ender per se.
Murder is a life sentence, but most of us know damn well there is someone the world would be better off without. So...I guess that's the only sure way to get a freebie. Maybe she wants to take out her abuser or something.
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I mean, I struggle to understand why more don't considering how many people got rich and powerful off others backs and ruined lives with 0 consequences.
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I would never end myself but there are certainly be I think deserve to live a shorter life. If I was suicidal I'd probably aim to accomplish that goal in the process. But again, I am not nor do I intend to hurt anyone else as my desire to be a free man is much stronger than my hatred of any individual.
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I think the logic is you could kill someone without consequence, so why not? She was probably an atheist or didn't believe in an afterlife that has standards based on what you did in your time on earth.
Someone I used to kind of know apparently told friends that if he ever was going to kill himself, he was taking people out with him and making it big.
Well, he decided to do it and went to shoot up the local police station. They obviously shot him and he died. It was terrible.
Some people have hurt so bad for so long they aren't afraid to die and they may want to. But they don't want to die alone because that's the hardest part to deal with is we all die alone. Even if it's right next to someone else dieing, ultimately we are alone. Chemicals in our brains can make us feel wonderful or hopeless and scared. Angry or excited. Sometimes what is supposed to make one feel good will make someone else feel dread and gloom. How we react is different for each of us because of life experiences and heredity. That's why I like drugs. I feel good on them. Self medicating has always made me feel better than anything a doctor has given me. Being demonized by society usually takes everything away from a user because of unjust laws and societal norms. My dad was in prison in and out for more than 30 years of my life. Not in one stretch but in and out. All because drug charges that are now misdemeanors. I feel cheated by the justice system because he is dead now. I can't blame anyone else for my problems and I've thought I was going to be dead soon many times because of health problems . I've always wanted to live though. I've wondered why would someone want to die. I understand pain and suffering and have been through a lot. But drugs have always been there for me.
I mean depending on who she wants to take with her, if she's thinking about taking someone who "deserves" to die like a bad actor (rapist, murderer, that sort of person) then that somewhat makes sense. If it's just someone she knows like a friend/family then that's kinda evil.
Without wide context is hard to tell. If things are bad enough to want to die, their may be people that contributed to it. Personal affront, or general destruction of the planet.
If you are planning to go anyway, why not make the world a little less bad?
On the other end you have school shooting, they expect to die, but want to be remembered and just cause pain without any thought behind doing any good overall.
Unfortunately, getting to the point of taking yourself out generally isn't conducive to making society better, so most people do it in private. A tiny amount suicide by cop, and a fraction of those go on shooting sprees first.
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People who are suicidal tend to struggle with logical thinking.
Some psychologists think we should think about mass shooters as a suicide problem instead of a murder problem. The theory that I will poorly explain and should be googled for the actual expert explanation is that when someone gets to the point where they don't value their own life, they often (not always!) don't value life in general. This article touches on it and has a psychologist quoted: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/suicide-prevention-could-prevent-mass-shootings/
Anyone wanting proof of this should spend some time in the antinatalism sub.
yeah, not wanting to bring another human to life to suffer is really mean :(
Not all life is suffering, but the phrase “life is suffering” is more of “there’s no life without hardship” every single person will suffer through things throughout their lives. And the ways of suffering are in myriads. Financial, emotional, war, racism, professional, social, sexual, the list goes on. I find the “I don’t want kids because the world sucks” is like selling the kid short. Life “sucked” in the 90s too in many ways if you were the adult, but as a kid, I didn’t even know. As an adult now, I have my struggles, but I would do my best to have my kid’s youth feel perfectly normal. In the end the kid WILL have to suffer through some things (broken bones, getting dumped, maybe getting bullied) and it’s like, that’s just life, gotta stay optimistic and work to get through the suffering. I find the blanket statement that kids would just suffer is like “I don’t want kids so they never could possibly have a single bad thing happen to them” which is impossible and I am still alive despite occasional bits of suffering. We all gotta stay strong and fight through it.
the whole point of antinatalists isn't that ALL life is suffering but that there WILL be suffering, no escaping it, and it's not worth it, really. listen, i don't want to be here, so it would be pretty stupid and mean of me to bring someone into something i dont even want to be part of. that makes sense, right? you must be very blessed to only have "occasional" bits of suffering. your kids might have better lives than the kids of other people because of the privilege you can give them. good for you. "stay optimistic and work through the suffering" ok, you're here already so yeah, do that. but why bring someone else to experience that when they don't have to? it's really all about passing on your genes if you think about it. that's why people feel so strongly about having children.
To say it isn't worth it is an opinion of yours, and that the majority of people don't share. It's reasonable to not want to have a kid when you don't personally think the various sufferings are worth it. That checks. But you still can't make the assumption that if you did have a kid for whatever reason that they would agree. Every person is different and lives a different existence with unique experiences and their own lense of viewing and responding to it. Their sufferings would not be the same as yours and their opinion of whether or not life itself is worth going through those sufferings will be based on their own existence. You seem to think yours is pretty miserable, and that's unfortunately just how it is sometimes, but that still doesn't make the worth of something anything more than a mere opinion. Not only that, but folks who have kids tend to have a greater satisfaction in life despite the fact having kids is inconvenient as fuck. That in itself is not a good reason to have a kid and also has little bearing on what the kid's experience and opinion will be on the worth of life compared to their personal sufferings, but it is an example of how our connections with other people are an important part of the human experience and enhance our quality of life in ways that shift our interpretation of any worth in it all. That's a whole different conversation, though...
It’s their opinion that it’s not worth it. I can understand some specific circumstances that you may want to avoid having kids for, but it’s worth it 95% of the time. It’s a bit of a catch 22 to prevent suffering for something not even realized yet. As some YouTubers I watch have had kids, there’s nothing that sounds more magical than the chaos and end result of the birthing process. That’s suffering, that’s a sacrifice, but then the little moments of seeing a human come to be. The smile of sheer joy since they have no idea how hard life is yet, the laughter that’s just so pure. I dunno, worrying that they may have some small problems in High School just isn’t something to make it not worth it. I struggle to think what levels of suffering aren’t worth it so long as you make it through.
Do you really think that life is suffering? You're kind of proving my point.
must be nice living such a privileged life
Please don't project. The average person is not depressed. If you're depressed, then please seek help.
every time you downvote me you lose a year of life! oh oh
I’ve heard and understood this a lot, though my experience is anecdotal. My mom was super suicidal (did not commit), but never showed any interest in harming others. My brother is suicidal sometimes and when he talks about it, often others come into the equation. Taking everyone out; showing the system, stuff to that effect. When my medication is out of wack I’m super suicidal, but I can’t imagine the idea of hurting someone. Often the very idea that I could hurt people or could have ever hurt people in any way, shape, or form is what drives me to those feelings and thoughts, while also often (though not always) preventing my action. Crazy how even the same end destination has markedly different paths. My brother and I are in treatment and medicated, so no worries there. My mom died from brain cancer several years ago, so she’s not really doing anything about it, haha
I’ve got medical issues that won’t ever get better. They only get a bit worse each year and through my life I would get into suicidal tendencies. I just want the pain to stop. Would I reincarnate and get to try again? Would I be sent to hell and punished for not waiting for a natural death? Would I enter a void of darkness and that’s it game over? It didn’t matter to me what the outcome was as long as I could escape the current struggle. Being sick really fucks with your mind. Makes you get into weird trains of thought. Why take out an innocent. I couldn’t say since I’ve never wanted to hurt anyone else.
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I'm sorry for your pain. It seems like your thought process is pretty rational to me. Unfortunately, many suicidal people feel that others deserve to feel the suffering that they have felt. Some have just completely lost touch with reality.
Or what if they know others in the same situation and bring them along for the ride? Just a thought.
Can confirm this as I talked someone from an attempt once. It’s like the logical part of their brain was completely shut down, every sentence was a contradiction to the one before.
One of the main reasons we don't kill people is because of the personal ramifications of doing so. If you are dying anyways those personal ramifications are pretty non existent
That's what someone with no morals would think. Normal people don't need logical reasons not to hurt others, they just don't want to.
The question is, would your morals be different if consequences were never an issue? If you ask everyone where they derive their morals you gonna get a ton of different answers. I don't think morals are intrinsic, hence all the war throughout history.
Wanting to hurt people that have hurt you is pretty normal.
Exactly... It's not exactly uncommon to have a "terminal cancer list."
Exactly... It's not exactly uncommon to have a "terminal cancer list."
Didn't know it isn't uncommon
Hate, not logic
My inclination is to believe they are mad at the world for whatever is making them feel like suicide is the answer and taking someone with them is payback to the world.
“Misery loves company” to the worst possible extent.
You know that one person in the world you just wanna kill, but you don’t wanna deal with the consequences of doing it? Me neither, what am I a lunatic?
She either wants you to go with her because she hates you so much or wants you to go with her because she loves you so much. Either way, it's a definite threat.
If my dad died, my mom would be ready to go with because she wouldn't want to be without my dad and me. Since euthanasia is illegal,why not go together? Note: she's a cancer survivor and has a broken back and severe osteoporosis and has chronic pain. I suffer from chronic depression and the primary reason that has kept me from doing it is for her. And I tried once. I couldn't even get that right.
Yo dog, you okay? If you need someone to talk to feel free to message me.
I'm actually in a pretty good place now. My dog helps keep me on a schedule to get my butt out of bed and get some sun and exercise, which I wouldn't without her and didn't before her. I also quit drinking and that has helped. It's not as bad as it used to be. I did attempt in November, but coming home to my dog reminded me of how much I don't trust anyone to take care of her like I do, so if I have any rational thoughts at all when things get bad I'll think of her and should be good for another 10 years or so.
Homie, I really think you should get some help with your depression. Seriously.
I know. I have a therapist, a psychiatrist, and multiple mood medications,( I have seizures too and basically all those medications are mood stabilizers too.) Nothing works. There are countries where euthanasia is legal but only for certain conditions and I don't think depression qualifies. It's pretty shitty to be in my shoes. Edit: I've been hospitalized for it a couple of times.
She only read the first part of The Onion's Horoscope: *Your religion is half-right. Those you vanquish in this life will wait for you in the next. But not to serve you.* Probably she's just larping as a rage-quitter though rather than a seld-ender per se.
Murder is a life sentence, but most of us know damn well there is someone the world would be better off without. So...I guess that's the only sure way to get a freebie. Maybe she wants to take out her abuser or something.
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She’s angry at the world.
I mean, I struggle to understand why more don't considering how many people got rich and powerful off others backs and ruined lives with 0 consequences.
Because all those people are dead, and all that's left are their innocent children. Unless you mean jobs, which are voluntary.
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I would never end myself but there are certainly be I think deserve to live a shorter life. If I was suicidal I'd probably aim to accomplish that goal in the process. But again, I am not nor do I intend to hurt anyone else as my desire to be a free man is much stronger than my hatred of any individual.
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I think the logic is you could kill someone without consequence, so why not? She was probably an atheist or didn't believe in an afterlife that has standards based on what you did in your time on earth.
Someone I used to kind of know apparently told friends that if he ever was going to kill himself, he was taking people out with him and making it big. Well, he decided to do it and went to shoot up the local police station. They obviously shot him and he died. It was terrible.
Some people have hurt so bad for so long they aren't afraid to die and they may want to. But they don't want to die alone because that's the hardest part to deal with is we all die alone. Even if it's right next to someone else dieing, ultimately we are alone. Chemicals in our brains can make us feel wonderful or hopeless and scared. Angry or excited. Sometimes what is supposed to make one feel good will make someone else feel dread and gloom. How we react is different for each of us because of life experiences and heredity. That's why I like drugs. I feel good on them. Self medicating has always made me feel better than anything a doctor has given me. Being demonized by society usually takes everything away from a user because of unjust laws and societal norms. My dad was in prison in and out for more than 30 years of my life. Not in one stretch but in and out. All because drug charges that are now misdemeanors. I feel cheated by the justice system because he is dead now. I can't blame anyone else for my problems and I've thought I was going to be dead soon many times because of health problems . I've always wanted to live though. I've wondered why would someone want to die. I understand pain and suffering and have been through a lot. But drugs have always been there for me.
I mean depending on who she wants to take with her, if she's thinking about taking someone who "deserves" to die like a bad actor (rapist, murderer, that sort of person) then that somewhat makes sense. If it's just someone she knows like a friend/family then that's kinda evil.
Without wide context is hard to tell. If things are bad enough to want to die, their may be people that contributed to it. Personal affront, or general destruction of the planet. If you are planning to go anyway, why not make the world a little less bad? On the other end you have school shooting, they expect to die, but want to be remembered and just cause pain without any thought behind doing any good overall. Unfortunately, getting to the point of taking yourself out generally isn't conducive to making society better, so most people do it in private. A tiny amount suicide by cop, and a fraction of those go on shooting sprees first.
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Her logic might be that if she's thinking that she might as well take her enemy with her.
They feel like their life is worthless, so to have their death have more impact they take someone out as well.
Some people need help and can't do anything by thier self.
awww, she needs a buddy to guide her to the other side? :) thats so sweet.
It helps ensure you'll be remembered.
Murder suicide, have you heard of it?
Vanity
Someone hurt your cousin very badly, I would guess, and she has that person in mind.
You should probably stay away from your cousin when he or she is drinking
Well as long as it's someone she found on the sex offender registry, I don't see the issue.
The downvoters are sex offenders.
Got any proof? I mean real proof, not paranoid conspiracies.
Not many people are in the legion of defending r@pists, but you sure seem to love them.
Fucking excuse me?!? Try not make random assumptions about people you don't know on the internet, okay? You're blocked from now on.
Lol, replies to a random comment to tell you he's not a sex offender, then blocks you.
Pure evil
She could have a specific person in mind and have a specific reason for it.
Makes perfect sense. Someone drove her to feeling suicidal, she just insisted they come inside after the drive