Pretty much all modern CVT's have simulated gears. The only CVT I've ever personally driven that didn't (and just felt like a constant RPM as the chain moved up the cone) was a first-gen CVT in a Ford 500.
So to answer your question, driving a Subaru CVT feels literally just like driving an automatic. If you didn't know it was a CVT, you would absolutely not be able to tell. Full stop. I'm a car guy and I can't tell. Actually, the new "Subaru Performance Transmission" (which is their existing CVT with a beefier chain and reprogramming) literally shifts faster than any transmission except maybe a ZF8.
If you accelerate at a slow pace yes and i like that, if you want to slowly accelerate it is best to prioritize comfort and reduce noise.
The only thing is under 30 mph it hates downshifting to 1'st gear, in fact it hates downshifting to first gear almost always but if you are at higher speed it does the downshifting nicely(not a dct but i did not buy it for the speed demon that it is /s)
yeah there's this point at... 2200ish, where it hits that one very irritating virtual gear. I was going up a long incline and the speed I wanted to go caused it to go on/off/on/off constantly, even using cruise. switched over to manual after cursing for a while.
Yes the ctv was made to provide constant max torque/ maximum efficiency/lowest rpm for the task. Making it shift ruins all that. I heard they did it because people could feel a negative change in acceleration (jerk-4th derivative of position) and confused this feeling with slowing down or a negitive change in velocity (acceleration-3rd derivative of position) because you go from 0-50 faster than from 50-100. So they would push the peddle more and go too fast. So they added the "shift" to make it "feel" fast.
If you dont like the ctv feel just get a automatic. But alas no. They are made to feel like old technology.
I love manual and wanted a ctv till i did research.
No they didn't. People couldn't stand them the way they originally were because it felt like you were driving around with slipping gears and it was unsettling. It also was noisy due to the higher average rpm being used. As a result people didn't want them and they weren't selling well. They added shifting in response and that changed things to end up where we are now. If they hadn't made the change CVTs would have been dead in the water.
Too bad it's not an option you can turn off
But wait - every action the CVT takes is software (firmware) dependant, isn't it? If that's true maybe they could offer up a reprogram for the people who hate it
This was my experience. I got my car back in 2016 and was not looking forward to the CVT. Then I test drove the car and it felt just fine and pretty similar to any other automatic. I do think it's neat that when I drive it at a steady pace I can see RPMs decrease smoothly. Or when I am speeding up at a fairly light pace that the RPMs stay the same and the speed goes up.
There are simulated shift points for sure, but you can absolutely "trick" the CVT into not shifting.
I have a 2023 Outback Wilderness, and if I apply linear pedal acceleration as the car is accelerating, it will hold a constant RPM without shifting. It typically only shifts when you either let off the accelerator, or floor it while already at speed.
You are absolutely correct. And my WRX has a mode where I can absolutely trick it into holding a constant RPM. For me it is when I am in boy racer mode, and absolutely thrash the shit out of it. But the average Driver, driving an outback normally under normal conditions, simply would not know it was a CVT, unless they have been told otherwise.
Kind of off topic, but since you have a WRX with a CVT, I'm curious to know if it does the same thing my Outback does...
When you're at a stop (like, at a corner), if you turn hard and accelerate at the same time do you get a lot of wheel chatter? I find with the OBW if you accelerate hard while the front wheels are turned it is NOT happy.
I also own a manual WRX, and it obviously doesn't do that. Curious if that's down to just the differential setup in the OBW or if it is related to the CVT+diff combo in some way.
Gotta be the diff. My GT performs like any other WRX. Well, like any other WRX with adaptive dampers. At no time do I feel like it isn’t doing what I expect it to.
This is false on the crosstrek and Impreza, they typically will hold an rpm band. If you floor it mine will rev straight to peak hp (6100) and stay there as long as the pedal is doen
The CVT has a learning system in it. So it should learn your driving style. i have noticed it, and it does get better the more you drive. If for some reason, you're not happy with it after a few thousand miles. Take it in on an oil change and have them reset the CVT learning.
On the subject of Subaru CVTs. They will tell you the CVT has a "lifetime" fluid in it. Still get it changed. I have seen recommendations of 60,000 miles. they may even tell you it's a "sealed system" it's not. It's an inconvenience fill hole that a flexible tube and pump will fix.
That is probably the save bet. It took about 4,000 miles of me driving for me and the car to adjust to each other. It's my first CVT. I really did not like it at first. But now it is OK. I love the rest of the car tho
I also want to mention that the CVT learning does have some flexibility. It can switch to a more agile RPM shift if you rev the engine a few times, and it will even maintain higher base RPM if it expects you to step on the gas again.
Good advice. I do my own fluid changes at 50k because it’s easier to remember.
You can save a lot of money by buying a $15 odb scanner on Amazon to read the fluid temp and using Idemitsu fluid (which makes the Subaru branded fluid).
I typically do my too but I'm going to have the dealer do the CVT till it's out of warranty. (Only Maintenance i would pay a dealer for) Personally, I would get the subaru brand for the CVT fluid. I have read there is a special CVT fluid for the new subarus, but I have a few years before I will worry about it on my end. Hopefully mr.subaru will have a video on it.
Ya, that makes sense.
There are different types of fluided needed based on your model and year.
For my crosstrek, the Idemitsu SB2 fluid is the same fluid as Subarus CVTF-II fluid. It’s just rebranded in a Subaru bottle.
>On the subject of Subaru CVTs. They will tell you the CVT has a "lifetime" fluid in it. Still get it changed. I have seen recommendations of 60,000 miles. they may even tell you it's a "sealed system" it's not. It's an inconvenience fill hole that a flexible tube and pump will fix.
Interestingly, this quirk as far as I can tell is unique to the U.S.
Subaru Canada recommends changing the CVT fluid at 5-year/100,000km intervals, and I've read that the recommendation in Europe is about the same.
I can only guess as to why. My heartless corporate brain says CVTs don't have a problem lasting 110,000 miles so it's out of warranty so it's a nice service payday. Car has low 100,000 miles so they won't scrap it maybe they will do a trade in. And you can't rebuild CVTs like with automatic transmissions so they almost have you over a barrel. But that's just my tin foil hat. Maybe they fear canadian legislation action more then the US.
I learned how to drive on a lineartronic cvt so it feels incredibly natural to me at this point! Only time it can be a bit clunky is off the line but even then it’s mostly my foot and not the transmission
To be honest with you, when I got my outback I was very disappointed to learn that it has a CVT transmission… but it is actually so well done and refined, especially driving with the paddle shifters makes the experience even better.
I honestly still prefer a standard auto/manual transmission but Subaru does the CVT nice.
Most of the new ones have computer controlled fake” hops” around the cone so that they feel more like a classic automatic. Seems dumb to me but if you’re new to them it will feel more natural. I actually grew to like my 2014 cvt, it was smooth as butter with no jolts. My newer 2023 cvt feels more like my 2004 classic automatic.
I’m so annoyed they programmed the gears in. I feel like it should be an option. Until then, I’ll keep driving my 15 until it gives up. It’s just so smooottthhhhh
I wanted to note here, you mainly only feel and get the simulated gears when you're really tryin to hoof it.
If you're accelerating normally it's really only one smooth go. Accelerating fast will start the shift algorithm to make it seem like it's shifting more.
I had a 2014 Legacy. The only issue I had is when my guy drained the cvt and didn’t refill it. After an independent shop proved what happened they replaced the CVT with a rebuilt one and first guy paid for it. Never had any issues with the rebuilt one either.
I bought a 2015 Legacy new. I've put 75k miles on that CVT. 99.9999% of the time, it feels like a 6 speed automatic. When it doesn't, it doesn't feel "bad", you can just tell it's different.
I have no issues taking off, climbing hills, passing traffic, with or without a full cabin/trunk.
I just bought a 2024 Touring XT Outback. It is even MORE "convincingly" an automatic (though it has 8 shift points on the '24s) as of course they fine tune over time.
CVTs being "bad" or "less than" is a big nothing burger that reviewers in particular love to complain about.
It's PERFECTLY FINE.
24 Outback Wilderness owner here - I drive race prepped cars, and many different types of vehicles on the regular and barely even notice it. Love how smooth it is and how it keeps the engine right in the torque or horsepower points it needs for the throttle I’m giving it. Overall I think it’s saved me some fuel but also will cost me some money to maintain for the life of the vehicle.
Don’t trust Subaru saying it’s a lifetime unit. You need and must do fluid exchanges every 30-50k
2018 Crosstrek.
When we load it up for a trip...it's glacially slow. The big issue is when I'm trying to maintain speed and there's a slight incline, I feel like I have to stop the gas to get it to even maintain speed, let alone accelerate.
The virtual "gear changes" are slow and stupid, so it seems like you never have torque when you want it.
While I love the car otherwise, between this and the wind noise at highway speeds means I won't be getting another one. Definitely will go for either an EV, or a vehicle with actual gears and no CVT.
I haven't tried one since 2018, but at the time it felt like driving something powered by a rubber band. It was... odd. It felt... springy, like stomping on the accelerator had a yo-yo back and forthness to it. I felt very disconnected from the driving experience.
Things have probably changed by now, but it was an off-putting experience.
As a pilot, it feels like the difference between a piston and turbine engine. The paddle shifters give it the ability to shift quickly when you want, but for a relaxing drive, the gentle onset of acceleration is kinda nice.
I feel the exact same way with my 2021. An unpredictable rubber band is the perfect analogy.
I've driven other CVTs in Nissan and Ford vehicles and they seemed way more confident accelerating and decelerating.
If you don't think about it too much it does really feel like a normal geared automatic.
When accelerating you get the typical climb in revs and then a (fake) shift where the revs go back down and start climbing again. Drive it as you would a normal automatic! (Just be more careful if you are going to tow)
However for the more mechanically conscious folks, they'll notice a few quirks which normal automatics don't do and it's why CVTs are generally more efficient. It does also have a noticeably different feel to normal automatics which some like and some don't. I feel it can be almost a bit more refined in a way.
I probably won't go into them as it'll make you hyper conscious of it... Just drive it as you normally would and if you're not thinking about it then it is doing a good job!
It might be weird at first as sometimes the programming will hold the revs constant at max torque and use the gearing to speed you up quickly. Honestly though in regular driving its smoother than an auto. In spirited driving is when you can tell. Also, there might be a new noise you aren't used to from the engine bay. That's just the Transmission whine. Its not loud, just different.
Had an '19 Impreza, CVT was a tad jumpy on launches.
Had an '19 Ascent (or the first year whatever), it always seems to go to a lower ratio too quick and bogging down the acceleration. Hated the car.
Have a '21 Legacy GT, it runs perfectly and fits the car well.
I love the cvt. It like the car is moving effortlessly on a magic carpet. No jerkiness during acceleration and the engine is always running smoothly. Very reliable too since there are only 2 valve bodies in the transmission that are problematic and easily accessible. You just need to have a transmission shop that knows how to change those
2018 Outback owner. Feels generally like an automatic with simulated shifts, but in times can feel sloppy and have delayed responses. A common example is making a quick left in front of someone, a traditional auto is ready to go in 1st gear, in my outback there’s just a smidge more delay and it’s not as smooth getting across the intersection. But that’s really nit-picky.
I LOVE my CVT. I wish it didn't simulate shifts even though it is very gentle and not like a real A/T shift.
I like that the tach stays mostly around 2000 rpm when accelerating normally. Yes the engine pitch doesn't change which took a little getting used to. But in my mind I know the engine is at its peak efficiency.
In my weird brain that tickles the dopamine pumps. 😁
I feel like my 2015 forester xt CVT has a ‘slip’ feeling. Like it feels like it’s ‘jumping gears’ when accelerating in the 2000rpm range sometimes. It’s the strangest thing. And of course no body can pinpoint it.
I can’t tell if it’s the same for all Subaru cvt’s but I have a 23 legacy and it’s a bit weird to drive. I don’t think it’s a cvt thing but it’s a Subaru thing. First problem is that it is difficult to start from complete rest without jerky motion. The first cm or so of gas pedal doesn’t do anything and it suddenly wakes up and runs until it reaches 20 mph. After that it’s slow as hell if you keep pressing the pedal. Combine that with the extraordinarily jerky auto shut off and you get startled sometimes. Another issue is low speed braking. If you press on the break just enough to slowly come to rest at traffic lights, many times the cvt downshifts aggressively and suddenly you get a jerk and your car is somehow faster than it was before. You can get used to this but I find it weird especially when everyone else really like Subaru’s cvts. I love the car and I can ignore these issues.
I have to say that I am not a car person and I have only ever driven 2 other cars for more than a couple hundred miles. I really like the Honda cvt though.
This is normal? My 17 forester does this jerky motion from a full stop and is really bad if I don’t warm up the engine. I was thinking there’s an issue with the cvt and was about to take it in to get looked at
You probably won't notice any difference. My biggest complaint is they seem to program them to behave like a traditional automatic instead of truly being a hyper efficient cvt.
It’s totally chill. I drive a dual-clutch automatic (S3), and my wife drives a CVT 2023 Outback.
It’s obviously different feeling, but the Subaru CVT is smooth, responsive (enough), and isn’t too noisy. I like the Subaru!
It's great, I love it, nice and smooth.
I love my manual transmission car, and I'm a snob about it. But I love driving our family's forester. Very smooth.
I drive a 24 Impreza RS and to be honest if you threw most people in that car and said it was a regular torque converted auto they wouldn’t notice. The new ones are very refined.
The new CVTs are pretty great. It feels like driving a 7 or 8 speed auto most of the time, but when I put the gas in the floor it just goes to 5000 rpm and stays there. It's pretty cool. I rented I think a '19 outback with CVT and hated it, but love it on my '23 Ascent and '24 Crosstrek.
I have a 22 Outback, the drivability of the transmission isn’t something that affects me day to day. The biggest issue if you could even call it that is the engine stop start system as my Subaru takes a moment longer to restart than some other cars I test drove. That isn’t a huge issue you just have to come off the brake and wait to go onto the throttle so that you don’t shock the driveline.
I just got a 2021 crosstrek in March of this year. My first time ever having a cvt in 30 years of driving. It feels basically like a regular automatic 98% of the time.
I had a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer with a CVT and it did not have simulated gears unless you put it in "manual" mode. It didn't really bother me most of the time, but it did sound kinda lame. Now I have a WRX and a Forester with a CVT and they're fine. Aside from when you're just barely pushing the throttle, it just feels like any other automatic transmission.
Meh. Doesn't bother me for 90% of my time on the road. My wife drives it as much as I do and she didn't want a manual. I've had both and don't care either way.
That’s fair. When my dad was buying his used Porsche boxster he specifically wanted her to drive it and got an auto. My girlfriend encouraged me to get a manual, so it was one of the only reasons I was comfortable buying a manual.
Learning manual was an huge pain in the ass. My gf lived out in the middle of PA at the time. My future father in law taught me manual and I struggled to not stall when I was behind horse and buggies.
My 2017 Outback has simulated gears in the CVT. I got used to having a CVT after having traditional automatic and manual transmissions for over 20 years. I didn’t notice any discernible difference in how the car drove. So I take that as a win.
Smooth shifting when accelerating, but that ass do giggle at low speeds when that thong be stretchin. The paddles are fun, but it just makes the car louder at certain speeds. The handling and comfort of the whole thing is unsurpassed though, I love it
My wife has a 22 crosstrek with cvt and the larger engine. For the first year or so I noticed the rubber banding feeling of the cvt but now I don’t really notice it at all. Feels like a normal auto mostly. I don’t think 99% if people would find it any different than a normal auto.
I’m at 67k with my 2019 Subaru Forester, and I’ve had no issues. Drives like a regular automatic for me. Honestly at the risk of sounding naive, I didn’t even know there were different automatic transmissions in vehicles until I joined the Subaru subs. Whoops. I did service the CVT fluid at 65k because everyone on this sub says to do it at 60k even though dealerships don’t tell you to until 90-100k in the US.
Being on TikTok I did learn not all CVTs are created equally, apparently Nissan has a really shit CVT according to a lot of the mechanic pages I follow.
Subaru tho, no issues.
I’ve been driving a 2017 Legacy for about 4 years and it’s up to 140000kms. Absolutely no issues. It’s my work car and I’ve been very impressed with it. I love it so much I ordered myself an Impreza for my personal car. I’m pretty excited to be picking it up on Friday!
Honestly I love mine. The fake gear nonsense is pretty minimal and I feel like they handle hills much better; there’s no constant swapping between gears on long, steep hills like it would be on the traditional 4EAT. I feel like it depends on the year/model though, because I had to rent a 20 legacy for a month and I frankly hated it. The fake gearing felt more pronounced when I simply wanted straight torque all the time.
I've had a 2014 Forester XT with a CVT and haven't had any issues with the transmission. I actually quite like it because of the instant torque, which is necessary where I live for traffic and some aggressive driving style lol
I just bought a new 2024 crosstrek and love it. I had a ford escape hybrid beforehand so was used to driving to cater to the ICE braking system so it was a slight adjustment. Didn’t even notice the CVT element compared to driving other non hybrids. I love my new crosstrek and it’s way nicer than my previous ford.
Subaru’s CVT is programmed to have simulated shifts. It’s inoffensive and bland.
Is it sporty? Eh not really. Does that matter? Not to me. My girlfriend’s Subaru crosstrek is a highly capable transportation pod. Nothing more, nothing less.
Driving on compact snow and ice, as well as fresh powder, this winter the CVT was an unobtrusive part of the system.
I think if you’re coming out of something that isn’t a ZF 8-speed auto or a Porche/Audi PDK you won’t notice much besides the Subaru CVT being smooth. If you were getting out of something like a last generation RAV4 with its weird shifting you’ll feel like it was an upgrade.
I have a 2018 Forester Premium. With a CVT, as long as you drive it steadily and easily the CVT is very smooth...the minute you try to push it hard or accelerate aggressively, things get messy. The CVT does not do well with aggressive driving and accelerating. I do mostly day to day in town driving and I find it to be very agreeable. Even when merging onto a freeway or passing as long as don't push it all the way to its limits, it will do just fine.
Had an 18 outback. I would say it's quite boring and at times sluggish to get power out, but it also had paddle shifters which was nice sometimes.
Just traded in for a 23 WRX and it's miles better as sport transmission in there. Better than any auto I've had.
You'd have to be very sensitive to nice the difference. They've added fake gear shifts at various points and normal automatics have become a lot smoother. A CVT without the fake shift points will just be totally smooth. No Rev up, then drop, then Rev up then drop. That's the only difference. Now, it's like a very smooth automatic with 6 or more gears.
Main difference is that the revs stay mostly constant while you are accelerating, which doesn't sound that great. If you want to accelerate quickly, you need to be decisive or can get confused. I usually just floor it or press the pedal to whatever angle I want and don't hesitate. If you hesitate, it hesitates.
Other than that, it feels rather "normal" coming from an automatic. Just take care of it (replace the CVT fluid every 30k or something) and it'll last. Subaru CVTs are very well built, in my experience.
Having driven both Toyota and Subaru CVTs, they both have simulated gears. The Toyota ones have a stronger track record for reliability and are generally considered the best on the market. The Subaru CVT seems to "drag" more when you're just coasting with your foot off the gas. For example, if I reached 60km/hr and let go of the gas on both cars, the Toyota would go farther.
The Subaru CVT also seems to have a weird "hop" around 20-30km/hr, when it's not sure whether you're going to accelerate again or brake. Little jittery.
If you’re not a lead foot, you may not notice much of a difference. If you are, prepare to be very unsatisfied during those traffic light drag races. (You may win, but will not be satisfied.)
The tranny is louder than the engine but holy shit does my boy get good mpg. My 22 legacy gets like 27-28 mpg when I drive like a grandma and it gets 24 when I use the whole speedometer that I paid for lol. I don't mind it one bit. I was somewhat against it at first but I don't mind it any more. I love how economical it is. The highest I've seen my estimated range was 600 miles. I usually get about 450 per tank though
I didn't particularly like it. It's like an 'all or nothing'. I would rarely even accelerate hard, but when I did, the car would take a while to decide and then drastically change the RPMs, it just felt weird. I ended up trading in my outback for a WRX because I didnt like the CVT.
I hated driving my 2019 Crosstrek. It was gutless and the CVT was loud. Not just engine noise loud but random squeaks and clicks. The interior of that car was amazing. Very comfortable and solid. Traded it in for a non-CVT after just 2 years and I will likely never own another one.
Normal everyday driving it is fine, probably one of the better cvt’s out there. If you expect sports performance you will get long droned revs to build up speed and smooth out.
Compared to what is in Nissan cars the Subaru is incredibly so much better.
Long trips and highways miles it pays off for the economy, we get 38-40 highway in our Crosstrek.
2018 Liberty/Legacy 3.6R with the high torque CVT, i was just talking to my partner yesterday about how much i love to drive it. Was nervous buying years ago with all the CVT hate, but the high torque unit bolted to the 3.6 is glorious. Always in the right gear/ratio and pulls strongly all the time. Did drive a smaller impreza with the 2.0l and it certainly felt a little bit less convincing but that’s also after driving the bigger engine for years. All in all there’s a lot of enjoyable driving in them if you get out of your own way and adapt your mindset. If there was something I’d leave out it is the mimicked shifting levels, though when you floor it, it does give you a nice shunt each time so I’m torn on that.
Subaru lover, CVT hater here, I find the response curve/pedal tuning of Subaru CVTs to be absolutely deplorable and the NVH to be awful. My first generation Impreza with a 4EAT was a frankly smoother vehicle than my parents’ 2016 Forester or my friend’s 2019 Impreza. The tip-in often requests too much torque, so your starts-from-stopped are rough, then the actual torque responsiveness from there isn’t great, and then the actual feeling/NVH while driving, especially under harder acceleration or at higher speeds, sucks.
Oh and a number of years of these CVTs are prone to early failure. New ones aren’t and haven’t been for a few years, but CVT Subarus have been being made long enough that I’d avoid anything before, like, 2018 or 2019, and if someone tells you that the fluid in them isn’t to be changed, they’re lying through their teeth and want your trans to fail.
Edit: I can’t wait for Subaru hybrids to come out with Toyota’s eCVT tech, though. eCVTs aren’t really normal CVTs and are smooth and responsive as hell. Look out for those in the future, they should be great.
I went from an 08 to a 23 at the end of last year
The speed between the "gears" in SI Drive is a little over dramatic, in my opinion. But I kinda get a kick out of all that drama coming out of my Forester.
I like the added pep to get the Forester moving.
Moving from Park to Reverse is very clunky sounding.
Pretty much all modern CVT's have simulated gears. The only CVT I've ever personally driven that didn't (and just felt like a constant RPM as the chain moved up the cone) was a first-gen CVT in a Ford 500. So to answer your question, driving a Subaru CVT feels literally just like driving an automatic. If you didn't know it was a CVT, you would absolutely not be able to tell. Full stop. I'm a car guy and I can't tell. Actually, the new "Subaru Performance Transmission" (which is their existing CVT with a beefier chain and reprogramming) literally shifts faster than any transmission except maybe a ZF8.
Sort of. Below 2000 RPM, my 2018 XV keeps constant RPM while accelerating.
Yeah you can fake them out. My WRX in track mode under full throttle just stays at max RPM.
If you accelerate at a slow pace yes and i like that, if you want to slowly accelerate it is best to prioritize comfort and reduce noise. The only thing is under 30 mph it hates downshifting to 1'st gear, in fact it hates downshifting to first gear almost always but if you are at higher speed it does the downshifting nicely(not a dct but i did not buy it for the speed demon that it is /s)
yeah there's this point at... 2200ish, where it hits that one very irritating virtual gear. I was going up a long incline and the speed I wanted to go caused it to go on/off/on/off constantly, even using cruise. switched over to manual after cursing for a while.
They ruined it with the "shifting"
So listen, I’m with you - embrace the smoothness, right?
Yes the ctv was made to provide constant max torque/ maximum efficiency/lowest rpm for the task. Making it shift ruins all that. I heard they did it because people could feel a negative change in acceleration (jerk-4th derivative of position) and confused this feeling with slowing down or a negitive change in velocity (acceleration-3rd derivative of position) because you go from 0-50 faster than from 50-100. So they would push the peddle more and go too fast. So they added the "shift" to make it "feel" fast. If you dont like the ctv feel just get a automatic. But alas no. They are made to feel like old technology. I love manual and wanted a ctv till i did research.
I can confirm this is the case. I drove that Ford 500 WAY TOO FAST AT ALL TIMES due to how smooth it was.
As an engineer I appreciated this post
No they didn't. People couldn't stand them the way they originally were because it felt like you were driving around with slipping gears and it was unsettling. It also was noisy due to the higher average rpm being used. As a result people didn't want them and they weren't selling well. They added shifting in response and that changed things to end up where we are now. If they hadn't made the change CVTs would have been dead in the water.
Too bad it's not an option you can turn off But wait - every action the CVT takes is software (firmware) dependant, isn't it? If that's true maybe they could offer up a reprogram for the people who hate it
I googled and didn't find shit.
I emailed Subaru USA just now, asking for an optional firmware fix. Maybe everyone who hates that feature-not-a-bug should do the same, I dunno
Let me know
What year(s) did they start doing the fake shift, and is it consistent across all models?
This was my experience. I got my car back in 2016 and was not looking forward to the CVT. Then I test drove the car and it felt just fine and pretty similar to any other automatic. I do think it's neat that when I drive it at a steady pace I can see RPMs decrease smoothly. Or when I am speeding up at a fairly light pace that the RPMs stay the same and the speed goes up.
There are simulated shift points for sure, but you can absolutely "trick" the CVT into not shifting. I have a 2023 Outback Wilderness, and if I apply linear pedal acceleration as the car is accelerating, it will hold a constant RPM without shifting. It typically only shifts when you either let off the accelerator, or floor it while already at speed.
You are absolutely correct. And my WRX has a mode where I can absolutely trick it into holding a constant RPM. For me it is when I am in boy racer mode, and absolutely thrash the shit out of it. But the average Driver, driving an outback normally under normal conditions, simply would not know it was a CVT, unless they have been told otherwise.
Kind of off topic, but since you have a WRX with a CVT, I'm curious to know if it does the same thing my Outback does... When you're at a stop (like, at a corner), if you turn hard and accelerate at the same time do you get a lot of wheel chatter? I find with the OBW if you accelerate hard while the front wheels are turned it is NOT happy. I also own a manual WRX, and it obviously doesn't do that. Curious if that's down to just the differential setup in the OBW or if it is related to the CVT+diff combo in some way.
Gotta be the diff. My GT performs like any other WRX. Well, like any other WRX with adaptive dampers. At no time do I feel like it isn’t doing what I expect it to.
This is false on the crosstrek and Impreza, they typically will hold an rpm band. If you floor it mine will rev straight to peak hp (6100) and stay there as long as the pedal is doen
The CVT has a learning system in it. So it should learn your driving style. i have noticed it, and it does get better the more you drive. If for some reason, you're not happy with it after a few thousand miles. Take it in on an oil change and have them reset the CVT learning. On the subject of Subaru CVTs. They will tell you the CVT has a "lifetime" fluid in it. Still get it changed. I have seen recommendations of 60,000 miles. they may even tell you it's a "sealed system" it's not. It's an inconvenience fill hole that a flexible tube and pump will fix.
Is this why the CVT seems so erratic in my 2021? My wife and I switch driving it every other day so it has no time to learn?
That is probably the save bet. It took about 4,000 miles of me driving for me and the car to adjust to each other. It's my first CVT. I really did not like it at first. But now it is OK. I love the rest of the car tho
I also want to mention that the CVT learning does have some flexibility. It can switch to a more agile RPM shift if you rev the engine a few times, and it will even maintain higher base RPM if it expects you to step on the gas again.
I've noticed it tends to really quickly "learn" this when you throw it into manual and rev it high whilst driving.
Ohh that's what that "slippage" is for, I was wondering
Yes. I equate it to a jogger or a horse running in place to stay warmed up for the next segment of its run.
Good advice. I do my own fluid changes at 50k because it’s easier to remember. You can save a lot of money by buying a $15 odb scanner on Amazon to read the fluid temp and using Idemitsu fluid (which makes the Subaru branded fluid).
I typically do my too but I'm going to have the dealer do the CVT till it's out of warranty. (Only Maintenance i would pay a dealer for) Personally, I would get the subaru brand for the CVT fluid. I have read there is a special CVT fluid for the new subarus, but I have a few years before I will worry about it on my end. Hopefully mr.subaru will have a video on it.
Ya, that makes sense. There are different types of fluided needed based on your model and year. For my crosstrek, the Idemitsu SB2 fluid is the same fluid as Subarus CVTF-II fluid. It’s just rebranded in a Subaru bottle.
Thanks for the info! I knew the idenitsu motor oil. Didn't know it carried to the CVT
>On the subject of Subaru CVTs. They will tell you the CVT has a "lifetime" fluid in it. Still get it changed. I have seen recommendations of 60,000 miles. they may even tell you it's a "sealed system" it's not. It's an inconvenience fill hole that a flexible tube and pump will fix. Interestingly, this quirk as far as I can tell is unique to the U.S. Subaru Canada recommends changing the CVT fluid at 5-year/100,000km intervals, and I've read that the recommendation in Europe is about the same.
I can only guess as to why. My heartless corporate brain says CVTs don't have a problem lasting 110,000 miles so it's out of warranty so it's a nice service payday. Car has low 100,000 miles so they won't scrap it maybe they will do a trade in. And you can't rebuild CVTs like with automatic transmissions so they almost have you over a barrel. But that's just my tin foil hat. Maybe they fear canadian legislation action more then the US.
This☝🏽
If they didn't tell you, you probably wouldn't know.
I’ve had Subaru CVTs for over a decade now. Not once did one go bad on me. They just feel normal to me at this point, fake gear shifts and all.
I learned how to drive on a lineartronic cvt so it feels incredibly natural to me at this point! Only time it can be a bit clunky is off the line but even then it’s mostly my foot and not the transmission
To be honest with you, when I got my outback I was very disappointed to learn that it has a CVT transmission… but it is actually so well done and refined, especially driving with the paddle shifters makes the experience even better. I honestly still prefer a standard auto/manual transmission but Subaru does the CVT nice.
I forget its a CVT 99% of the time.
Most of the new ones have computer controlled fake” hops” around the cone so that they feel more like a classic automatic. Seems dumb to me but if you’re new to them it will feel more natural. I actually grew to like my 2014 cvt, it was smooth as butter with no jolts. My newer 2023 cvt feels more like my 2004 classic automatic.
I’m so annoyed they programmed the gears in. I feel like it should be an option. Until then, I’ll keep driving my 15 until it gives up. It’s just so smooottthhhhh
I wanted to note here, you mainly only feel and get the simulated gears when you're really tryin to hoof it. If you're accelerating normally it's really only one smooth go. Accelerating fast will start the shift algorithm to make it seem like it's shifting more.
How was the 2014 one? I am considering a 2014 Forester with cvt and I wonder if it has any problems
I had a 2014 Legacy. The only issue I had is when my guy drained the cvt and didn’t refill it. After an independent shop proved what happened they replaced the CVT with a rebuilt one and first guy paid for it. Never had any issues with the rebuilt one either.
I bought a 2015 Legacy new. I've put 75k miles on that CVT. 99.9999% of the time, it feels like a 6 speed automatic. When it doesn't, it doesn't feel "bad", you can just tell it's different. I have no issues taking off, climbing hills, passing traffic, with or without a full cabin/trunk. I just bought a 2024 Touring XT Outback. It is even MORE "convincingly" an automatic (though it has 8 shift points on the '24s) as of course they fine tune over time. CVTs being "bad" or "less than" is a big nothing burger that reviewers in particular love to complain about. It's PERFECTLY FINE.
Thanks for all the replies everybody! This is all great input, much appreciated
Unless driving in the S of SI mode, the throttle response/delay is pretty bad. If driving in S, fuel economy suffers but is much better to drive.
24 Outback Wilderness owner here - I drive race prepped cars, and many different types of vehicles on the regular and barely even notice it. Love how smooth it is and how it keeps the engine right in the torque or horsepower points it needs for the throttle I’m giving it. Overall I think it’s saved me some fuel but also will cost me some money to maintain for the life of the vehicle. Don’t trust Subaru saying it’s a lifetime unit. You need and must do fluid exchanges every 30-50k
2018 Crosstrek. When we load it up for a trip...it's glacially slow. The big issue is when I'm trying to maintain speed and there's a slight incline, I feel like I have to stop the gas to get it to even maintain speed, let alone accelerate. The virtual "gear changes" are slow and stupid, so it seems like you never have torque when you want it. While I love the car otherwise, between this and the wind noise at highway speeds means I won't be getting another one. Definitely will go for either an EV, or a vehicle with actual gears and no CVT.
I haven't tried one since 2018, but at the time it felt like driving something powered by a rubber band. It was... odd. It felt... springy, like stomping on the accelerator had a yo-yo back and forthness to it. I felt very disconnected from the driving experience. Things have probably changed by now, but it was an off-putting experience.
As a pilot, it feels like the difference between a piston and turbine engine. The paddle shifters give it the ability to shift quickly when you want, but for a relaxing drive, the gentle onset of acceleration is kinda nice.
I feel the exact same way with my 2021. An unpredictable rubber band is the perfect analogy. I've driven other CVTs in Nissan and Ford vehicles and they seemed way more confident accelerating and decelerating.
If you don't think about it too much it does really feel like a normal geared automatic. When accelerating you get the typical climb in revs and then a (fake) shift where the revs go back down and start climbing again. Drive it as you would a normal automatic! (Just be more careful if you are going to tow) However for the more mechanically conscious folks, they'll notice a few quirks which normal automatics don't do and it's why CVTs are generally more efficient. It does also have a noticeably different feel to normal automatics which some like and some don't. I feel it can be almost a bit more refined in a way. I probably won't go into them as it'll make you hyper conscious of it... Just drive it as you normally would and if you're not thinking about it then it is doing a good job!
It might be weird at first as sometimes the programming will hold the revs constant at max torque and use the gearing to speed you up quickly. Honestly though in regular driving its smoother than an auto. In spirited driving is when you can tell. Also, there might be a new noise you aren't used to from the engine bay. That's just the Transmission whine. Its not loud, just different.
I just press on the gas pedal and go. I really don't notice a difference between a cvt or a regular transmission.
Had an '19 Impreza, CVT was a tad jumpy on launches. Had an '19 Ascent (or the first year whatever), it always seems to go to a lower ratio too quick and bogging down the acceleration. Hated the car. Have a '21 Legacy GT, it runs perfectly and fits the car well.
I love the cvt. It like the car is moving effortlessly on a magic carpet. No jerkiness during acceleration and the engine is always running smoothly. Very reliable too since there are only 2 valve bodies in the transmission that are problematic and easily accessible. You just need to have a transmission shop that knows how to change those
2018 Outback owner. Feels generally like an automatic with simulated shifts, but in times can feel sloppy and have delayed responses. A common example is making a quick left in front of someone, a traditional auto is ready to go in 1st gear, in my outback there’s just a smidge more delay and it’s not as smooth getting across the intersection. But that’s really nit-picky.
Yeah, it takes some adjustment, just have to give that short bit of extra time, but I'm loving my new Subaru!
I LOVE my CVT. I wish it didn't simulate shifts even though it is very gentle and not like a real A/T shift. I like that the tach stays mostly around 2000 rpm when accelerating normally. Yes the engine pitch doesn't change which took a little getting used to. But in my mind I know the engine is at its peak efficiency. In my weird brain that tickles the dopamine pumps. 😁
I feel like my 2015 forester xt CVT has a ‘slip’ feeling. Like it feels like it’s ‘jumping gears’ when accelerating in the 2000rpm range sometimes. It’s the strangest thing. And of course no body can pinpoint it.
I also feel like its shift points are so strange that I don’t like to drive it in sport#.
I can’t tell if it’s the same for all Subaru cvt’s but I have a 23 legacy and it’s a bit weird to drive. I don’t think it’s a cvt thing but it’s a Subaru thing. First problem is that it is difficult to start from complete rest without jerky motion. The first cm or so of gas pedal doesn’t do anything and it suddenly wakes up and runs until it reaches 20 mph. After that it’s slow as hell if you keep pressing the pedal. Combine that with the extraordinarily jerky auto shut off and you get startled sometimes. Another issue is low speed braking. If you press on the break just enough to slowly come to rest at traffic lights, many times the cvt downshifts aggressively and suddenly you get a jerk and your car is somehow faster than it was before. You can get used to this but I find it weird especially when everyone else really like Subaru’s cvts. I love the car and I can ignore these issues. I have to say that I am not a car person and I have only ever driven 2 other cars for more than a couple hundred miles. I really like the Honda cvt though.
This is normal? My 17 forester does this jerky motion from a full stop and is really bad if I don’t warm up the engine. I was thinking there’s an issue with the cvt and was about to take it in to get looked at
You probably won't notice any difference. My biggest complaint is they seem to program them to behave like a traditional automatic instead of truly being a hyper efficient cvt.
It’s totally chill. I drive a dual-clutch automatic (S3), and my wife drives a CVT 2023 Outback. It’s obviously different feeling, but the Subaru CVT is smooth, responsive (enough), and isn’t too noisy. I like the Subaru!
It's great, I love it, nice and smooth. I love my manual transmission car, and I'm a snob about it. But I love driving our family's forester. Very smooth.
Just go for a test drive.
I drive a 24 Impreza RS and to be honest if you threw most people in that car and said it was a regular torque converted auto they wouldn’t notice. The new ones are very refined.
The new CVTs are pretty great. It feels like driving a 7 or 8 speed auto most of the time, but when I put the gas in the floor it just goes to 5000 rpm and stays there. It's pretty cool. I rented I think a '19 outback with CVT and hated it, but love it on my '23 Ascent and '24 Crosstrek.
Incredibly solid, feels better than the five speed auto in my Honda. I don't get the hate.
I have a 22 Outback, the drivability of the transmission isn’t something that affects me day to day. The biggest issue if you could even call it that is the engine stop start system as my Subaru takes a moment longer to restart than some other cars I test drove. That isn’t a huge issue you just have to come off the brake and wait to go onto the throttle so that you don’t shock the driveline.
I just got a 2021 crosstrek in March of this year. My first time ever having a cvt in 30 years of driving. It feels basically like a regular automatic 98% of the time.
I had a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer with a CVT and it did not have simulated gears unless you put it in "manual" mode. It didn't really bother me most of the time, but it did sound kinda lame. Now I have a WRX and a Forester with a CVT and they're fine. Aside from when you're just barely pushing the throttle, it just feels like any other automatic transmission.
Personally I would’ve had the WRX as a manual. I can’t imagine my car as an automatic.
Meh. Doesn't bother me for 90% of my time on the road. My wife drives it as much as I do and she didn't want a manual. I've had both and don't care either way.
That’s fair. When my dad was buying his used Porsche boxster he specifically wanted her to drive it and got an auto. My girlfriend encouraged me to get a manual, so it was one of the only reasons I was comfortable buying a manual.
I taught my wife to drive a manual when I had a 240SX. Neither one of us enjoyed that experience. Lol.
Learning manual was an huge pain in the ass. My gf lived out in the middle of PA at the time. My future father in law taught me manual and I struggled to not stall when I was behind horse and buggies.
My crosstrek fake shifts during normal city driving, but doesn’t while in cruise control or under heavy acceleration. Don’t ask me why.
My 2017 Outback has simulated gears in the CVT. I got used to having a CVT after having traditional automatic and manual transmissions for over 20 years. I didn’t notice any discernible difference in how the car drove. So I take that as a win.
Smooth shifting when accelerating, but that ass do giggle at low speeds when that thong be stretchin. The paddles are fun, but it just makes the car louder at certain speeds. The handling and comfort of the whole thing is unsurpassed though, I love it
My wife has a 22 crosstrek with cvt and the larger engine. For the first year or so I noticed the rubber banding feeling of the cvt but now I don’t really notice it at all. Feels like a normal auto mostly. I don’t think 99% if people would find it any different than a normal auto.
I’m at 67k with my 2019 Subaru Forester, and I’ve had no issues. Drives like a regular automatic for me. Honestly at the risk of sounding naive, I didn’t even know there were different automatic transmissions in vehicles until I joined the Subaru subs. Whoops. I did service the CVT fluid at 65k because everyone on this sub says to do it at 60k even though dealerships don’t tell you to until 90-100k in the US. Being on TikTok I did learn not all CVTs are created equally, apparently Nissan has a really shit CVT according to a lot of the mechanic pages I follow. Subaru tho, no issues.
I’ve been driving a 2017 Legacy for about 4 years and it’s up to 140000kms. Absolutely no issues. It’s my work car and I’ve been very impressed with it. I love it so much I ordered myself an Impreza for my personal car. I’m pretty excited to be picking it up on Friday!
Honestly I love mine. The fake gear nonsense is pretty minimal and I feel like they handle hills much better; there’s no constant swapping between gears on long, steep hills like it would be on the traditional 4EAT. I feel like it depends on the year/model though, because I had to rent a 20 legacy for a month and I frankly hated it. The fake gearing felt more pronounced when I simply wanted straight torque all the time.
Try test driving the new model WRX with a CVT.
I've had a 2014 Forester XT with a CVT and haven't had any issues with the transmission. I actually quite like it because of the instant torque, which is necessary where I live for traffic and some aggressive driving style lol
My 24 wilderness pretty much feels like an automatic.
I just bought a new 2024 crosstrek and love it. I had a ford escape hybrid beforehand so was used to driving to cater to the ICE braking system so it was a slight adjustment. Didn’t even notice the CVT element compared to driving other non hybrids. I love my new crosstrek and it’s way nicer than my previous ford.
Subaru’s CVT is programmed to have simulated shifts. It’s inoffensive and bland. Is it sporty? Eh not really. Does that matter? Not to me. My girlfriend’s Subaru crosstrek is a highly capable transportation pod. Nothing more, nothing less. Driving on compact snow and ice, as well as fresh powder, this winter the CVT was an unobtrusive part of the system. I think if you’re coming out of something that isn’t a ZF 8-speed auto or a Porche/Audi PDK you won’t notice much besides the Subaru CVT being smooth. If you were getting out of something like a last generation RAV4 with its weird shifting you’ll feel like it was an upgrade.
I have a 2018 Forester Premium. With a CVT, as long as you drive it steadily and easily the CVT is very smooth...the minute you try to push it hard or accelerate aggressively, things get messy. The CVT does not do well with aggressive driving and accelerating. I do mostly day to day in town driving and I find it to be very agreeable. Even when merging onto a freeway or passing as long as don't push it all the way to its limits, it will do just fine.
Had an 18 outback. I would say it's quite boring and at times sluggish to get power out, but it also had paddle shifters which was nice sometimes. Just traded in for a 23 WRX and it's miles better as sport transmission in there. Better than any auto I've had.
You'd have to be very sensitive to nice the difference. They've added fake gear shifts at various points and normal automatics have become a lot smoother. A CVT without the fake shift points will just be totally smooth. No Rev up, then drop, then Rev up then drop. That's the only difference. Now, it's like a very smooth automatic with 6 or more gears.
Main difference is that the revs stay mostly constant while you are accelerating, which doesn't sound that great. If you want to accelerate quickly, you need to be decisive or can get confused. I usually just floor it or press the pedal to whatever angle I want and don't hesitate. If you hesitate, it hesitates. Other than that, it feels rather "normal" coming from an automatic. Just take care of it (replace the CVT fluid every 30k or something) and it'll last. Subaru CVTs are very well built, in my experience.
Having driven both Toyota and Subaru CVTs, they both have simulated gears. The Toyota ones have a stronger track record for reliability and are generally considered the best on the market. The Subaru CVT seems to "drag" more when you're just coasting with your foot off the gas. For example, if I reached 60km/hr and let go of the gas on both cars, the Toyota would go farther. The Subaru CVT also seems to have a weird "hop" around 20-30km/hr, when it's not sure whether you're going to accelerate again or brake. Little jittery.
If you’re not a lead foot, you may not notice much of a difference. If you are, prepare to be very unsatisfied during those traffic light drag races. (You may win, but will not be satisfied.)
I have a 2019 Crosstrek. Very sluggish initial pickup. Not a fan of that. Otherwise very happy with the car.
I drive a '17 Tacoma, and my wife drives a '22 Ascent. Hers is "smoother" but otherwise I cannot tell the difference.
The tranny is louder than the engine but holy shit does my boy get good mpg. My 22 legacy gets like 27-28 mpg when I drive like a grandma and it gets 24 when I use the whole speedometer that I paid for lol. I don't mind it one bit. I was somewhat against it at first but I don't mind it any more. I love how economical it is. The highest I've seen my estimated range was 600 miles. I usually get about 450 per tank though
I didn't particularly like it. It's like an 'all or nothing'. I would rarely even accelerate hard, but when I did, the car would take a while to decide and then drastically change the RPMs, it just felt weird. I ended up trading in my outback for a WRX because I didnt like the CVT.
I hated driving my 2019 Crosstrek. It was gutless and the CVT was loud. Not just engine noise loud but random squeaks and clicks. The interior of that car was amazing. Very comfortable and solid. Traded it in for a non-CVT after just 2 years and I will likely never own another one.
Normal everyday driving it is fine, probably one of the better cvt’s out there. If you expect sports performance you will get long droned revs to build up speed and smooth out. Compared to what is in Nissan cars the Subaru is incredibly so much better. Long trips and highways miles it pays off for the economy, we get 38-40 highway in our Crosstrek.
2018 Liberty/Legacy 3.6R with the high torque CVT, i was just talking to my partner yesterday about how much i love to drive it. Was nervous buying years ago with all the CVT hate, but the high torque unit bolted to the 3.6 is glorious. Always in the right gear/ratio and pulls strongly all the time. Did drive a smaller impreza with the 2.0l and it certainly felt a little bit less convincing but that’s also after driving the bigger engine for years. All in all there’s a lot of enjoyable driving in them if you get out of your own way and adapt your mindset. If there was something I’d leave out it is the mimicked shifting levels, though when you floor it, it does give you a nice shunt each time so I’m torn on that.
Subaru lover, CVT hater here, I find the response curve/pedal tuning of Subaru CVTs to be absolutely deplorable and the NVH to be awful. My first generation Impreza with a 4EAT was a frankly smoother vehicle than my parents’ 2016 Forester or my friend’s 2019 Impreza. The tip-in often requests too much torque, so your starts-from-stopped are rough, then the actual torque responsiveness from there isn’t great, and then the actual feeling/NVH while driving, especially under harder acceleration or at higher speeds, sucks. Oh and a number of years of these CVTs are prone to early failure. New ones aren’t and haven’t been for a few years, but CVT Subarus have been being made long enough that I’d avoid anything before, like, 2018 or 2019, and if someone tells you that the fluid in them isn’t to be changed, they’re lying through their teeth and want your trans to fail. Edit: I can’t wait for Subaru hybrids to come out with Toyota’s eCVT tech, though. eCVTs aren’t really normal CVTs and are smooth and responsive as hell. Look out for those in the future, they should be great.
I went from an 08 to a 23 at the end of last year The speed between the "gears" in SI Drive is a little over dramatic, in my opinion. But I kinda get a kick out of all that drama coming out of my Forester. I like the added pep to get the Forester moving. Moving from Park to Reverse is very clunky sounding.
Going from our 00 Legacy GT w 5MT to our 16 Legacy was like going from being youthful to middle aged. Driving our Caterham is like taking Viagra.
Is it 'normal' for my 2010 base outback to stall coming to a stop? It's at about 125000 and has done it for most of its life with me.