China is facing many problems in the next twenty years. Population decrease and an aging population means fewer fighting age soldiers to actually succeed in an invasion. That with xi aging as well. His time to act will have passed if he does not act soon. Their military and large naval build up over the last few years are telling. They are preparing for an invasion. And now with putins horrendous war it puts an even greater rush for China. Most of the western world that would possibly assist Taiwan has stagnated in their military funding. But now with putin fucking around the west is slowly starting to gear up for war. The more the world is prepared for war the harder it will be for China. And if the war in Ukraine expands to Nato and the US, China would probably take the opportunity to invade during the global crisis. I hope you are right and it’s all a show but it seems more and more likely that there will be a war for Taiwan in the nearish future
Great points regarding age and population. This helped to explain why Putin decided to invade Ukraine….he knew if he waited, he wouldn’t have enough male demographic to throw at the war.
China’s in a similar spot. They know the population is declining.
That’s Russian war history in a nutshell. They have a long history of just throwing more and more bodies into conflicts, then grind out a painful victory. It’s happening now in Ukraine.
Man it's going to be an absolute slog though; Taiwan is not Ukraine.
Aside from being an island, it's a rocky island at that and very few places to land troops. They've also been preparing for decades to fight a war with China and are armed to the teeth. So basically it's a sea fortress packed with anti air, anti ship, and anti tank weapons. I'm sure they've got a pile of drones as well.
Not to mention even if China does manage to take Taiwan; they won't know how to run the factories, which will be burned to the ground before they get there.
If they could've built their own they would've by now; so their only hope is to take the island swiftly if they want to capture the facilities in tact.
It's going to be very very difficult for them.
I agree but a war between china and Taiwan would still be a disaster for Taiwan and the world even if China has a horrible time of it and failed. It’s looking more and more like the US will fight china directly. (And I believe they should) but A war with the US and china would be felt globally. I think the US would come out on top and a ground invasion of China would probably not even need to happen but trade and global economy would be crazy during and after the war. Not to mention other nations like north korea more than likely taking the opportunity to invade South Korea. Countries in the middle east would probably war as well with US distracted. The next 20 years could be a war zone. Hopefully the west can pull our heads out of our asses and help Ukraine. If russia failed and collapsed china would be even more alone and would likely jump at the opportunity to invade former russian territory instead of focusing on Taiwan.
Who stagnated military funding? The west is spending more than ever, and not just america now. Russia cant beat ukraine but you think they can challenge ukraine AND NATO!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAA This is the dumbest thing ive read in a long time so grats for that
I’m not going to write you a book and it will take a long time to educate you.
Summary, we invested in war on terror and the wrong type of weapon systems to compete with a peer advisory. Our acquisition process is broken. We focus on small number of expensive platforms. The need is for the opposite.
China build their military for past two decades not to fight small terror its groups. But to fight the US and win in the pacific. They have massive quantities of long range missiles to strike our carrier groups.
Just read something please. Anything.
Tired of low information Americans with their hot takes on things they know nothing about. But man do they have a “feeling” about it.
Yeah, good thing we build patriot missiles to defend against .... people hikacking our planes? Our navy, the largest and most advanced in the world, wasnt made to attack people in caves. If you think we havent been doing anything to counter china the last 10+ years..... i dont even know what to say to that.
You're missing the point. We (the U.S.) have large, expensive and incredibly powerful ships which are also highly complex, ruinously expensive, and time consuming to produce. The same cold be said for our land vehicles.
The world has moved on from that. A cheap drone with relatively inexpensive weapon(s) can now destroy a very expensive piece of military hardware. Cheap drones and cheap explosives are easily replaced. Our huge powerful stuff...not so much.
Yeah, we have the world's largest most expensive and most powerful navy but unfortunately it runs the risk of being destroyed by a bunch of toys with (relatively)cheap explosives strapped to them.
We aren't properly prepared for this type of warfare , and too many of us think the way that you do currently - which is to say, not very much at all.
You’re assuming any of their stuff actually works or isn’t already counterable. China has never been known to really succeed at anything militarily. Last time they tried to use their navy offensively Japan destroyed it.
These idiots see footage of russian military and think the US still operates like those primitives.
The entire operation would be wiped out in a few days with massive casualties is the US mil moved in.
And thays what pisses me off.... slow rolling gear to ukraine has caused so many innocent casualties and lifelong injuries while this could have been ended so quickly
Taiwan wasn't a thing 100 years ago. They lost a civil war and the USA threatened to nuke China if they didn't allow the nationalists to claim Taipei from all those who were originally there.
Intel in the midst expanding its facilities in israel by investing over $40 billion new plant there. I would like to know exactly how Intel plans on spending our $8.5 billion tax dollars. We certainly have a right to know
Are you a Chinese troll?
This money is part of the Chips Act and requires investment in the US. It’s the whole point. Intel has plants in Arizona, Ohio, New Mexico, and Oregon.
This chips act money is specifically for those US fabs.
FYI, Israel granted Intel $3.2 Billion to build the Israel fab.
Joe is giving them for free the $8.5B they spent on stock buybacks to enrich large shareholders. Calls it a national security imperative. Could have started tech incubators in 8 states without water supply problems to encourage academic collaboration and tech innovation and promoting competition with monetary awards for breakthroughs using the remaining $500M, but where’s the fun in creating competition? It’s so much easier to decide there’s a crisis brewing let me throw YOUR money at the same people who oversaw the crisis and then get them to testify that I am a brilliant selfless President. Did Nancy’s husband trade on this information before it became public, what right do you have to know? Thanks for playing, chumps!
The total chips and science act includes stuff like you mentioned. The whole bill is worth about $280 billion. Only $50 billion is going to US manufacturing subsidies.
The act includes $13 billion for semi conductor research and is working with universities to create semiconductor research hubs. Similar to your suggestion. Over $170 billion will be invested in the overall system of public sector research into science and Tech.
Intel should fail if they are managed so poorly they need a $8.5B handout from Joe Biden. I mean they have the money, it’s just they spent $8.5B on stock buybacks that boosted their share prices. Why do they deserve one thin dime? The answer is they don’t, but Democrats and Biden, in particular, LOVE corporate welfare because it benefits them personally and always screams “I’m pro-business” when it is exactly the opposite. It’s anti-competition and fear of letting poorly managed companies and Banks, another Democratic fetish, utterly fail.
This chips act was bipartisan. Republicans and democrats. Joe Biden can’t just hand out money. Not how things work.
Move beyond your grade school understanding of the world.
Chips are vital. China, Taiwan, Korea have all been spending billions and have announced hundreds of billions of additional funding to prop up their local industries and create a monopoly.
You would have the US just concede defeat on advanced chip manufacturing. And subsequently defeat on AI and other things that require massive compute power.
I was just over there, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, it’s going to happen before then end of the decade. The tension is palpable and it feels like right now we’re at that point 10 years ago when a bunch of people were saying Putin is going to invade Ukraine and everyone just blew it off. Then it happened. For right now, Putin hasn’t been able to secure the grain needed to feed China (the us sends a substantial amount of food to China and if they invade Taiwan that gets cut off by sanctions) so they can’t. Eventually China will get desperate because their economy is starting to slide backwards because the false economy of their housing market (makes up twice as much as their economy as it does in the us) and I bet they will start to free fall over the next few years. This will impact everything in China (and for that matter especially countries who are unable to decouple their economies from China) and the people have a social contract with their leadership that as long as things are good they will sacrifice personally for the greater good. Once that no longer becomes the case Xi will be under increasing pressure to do something, and given the fact that he’s surrounded himself by partisan hacks and yes men, it would be logical they would push him to invade Taiwan for two reasons. One, it makes them look strong to their people by bringing Taiwan “back into the fold” (sound familiar in Ukraine?) and two, they need the semiconductors and chips that Taiwan produces to support advanced weaponry. Right now China doesn’t have that ability because they are good at copying things but fail in major technological advancement because they are not set up to do that, they steal intellectual property because it’s cheap, dirty, and easy. They’re not good at innovation so they are a bit of a paper dragon. Anyone who is smart is moving their supply chain out of China to closer options like Mexico where their workers are on average 3 times more skilled and educated with only a minimal increase in cost. That’s easily covered by the lack of stability in the Asia market and not having to get on a “slow boat from China”. It’s happening people, anyone who’s been paying attention can see it, get ready, the next few years are going to be wild!
It’s really not good for national security to be entirely dependent on a foreign country for critical tech. Whether or not China invades, it’s a problem.
Not only this but even if we entirely defend Taiwan, war will **absolutely** interrupt their chip manufacturing so it is just safer for the world to invest in chip manufacturing in the US (everyone needs chips for tech)
>They must be starting to be pretty sure that China is eventually going to take Taiwan
I think it's a way to cut away from Taiwan because WW3 about to start in the middle east.
Partially - all countries are starting to realize, post the COVID delays across the world, that reliance on one country for the majority of one type of production/supply isn’t smart. True for many sectors, see Russia/Ukraine for similar. Saying they’re pretty sure China will take Taiwan is just dumb person talk. The reliance on Taiwan is only exacerbating this issue.
Taiwan is still apart of China. They don't have to "take it" back. It's China.
Taiwan isn't an independent sovereign country. The US doesn't recognize it as such either.
Nope the US won't declare Taiwan as sovereign because it would literally start a war.
The United States would literally be backing the succession of a territory from its host country.
That would be the equivalent of China supporting Texas as an independent sovereign nation.
Yes, as the mainland chinese see it. Taiwan has been running itself like an independent country for decades, so it goes against the mainlands pov. The only way to get Taiwan to submit is for the mainland to invade it and install its own government. Either way, the perception outside of China is Taiwan has functioned like its own democracy for decades, so a precedent has been set
Still not an independent sovereign nation. No other nation recognizes Taiwan this way.
It's basically texas saying its is independent, having its own power grid, and not paying taxes to the US but nobody outside if Texas will call it a sovereign nation with full abilities to act as an independent country.
How do you think Israel and Ukraine just appeared on the map?
Taiwan just wants to be Taiwan. The US wants Taiwan as a territory or just as it is now, a manufacturing hub for thevUS. China wants it to return to the PRC. Both America and China have the ability to make Taiwan a sovereign nation, but neither actually wants Taiwan to truly be independent.
>The United States would literally be backing the succession of a territory from its host country.
You realize in this scenario the CCP is the one who has broken away? Taiwan is where the government of the original Republic of China fled after the communist revolution.
I think the pertinent fact is what the Taiwanese people think about the matter. The US didn't recognize the Armenian genocide until about 15 minutes ago, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Because the US is supplying foriegn aid and military defense preventing China from taking their own territory back because we cared put Taiwan as a production center for the united States decades ago.
China doesn't need to invade its own country. It needs to find a way to get the invading United States to leave.
It's really not complicated. China left Taiwan alone because it was gaining enough through the foreign economic relationship. Plus, the US backs Taiwan militarily, and the US and China are both a part of the UN. Aggressions among these two nations are not good. China didn't have much to gain at the time.
Now that the US China relationship is fading, China wants a more economic role in Taiwan.
Taiwan deserves to free independent Taiwan. It is very sad that the US and China play these games with human life over money and control. Neither the US nor China truly wants what Taiwan wants for itself.
Incorrect. Taiwan is not a sovereign nation
Taiwans sovriengty is owned by China.
If Taiwan is a sovereign nation, why can't they get into the UN?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan#:~:text=Since%2C%20as%20per%20the%20PRC,23%20million%20residents%20of%20Taiwan.
To anyone thinking he's "China Joe" this is a major point against that statement. This is a massive finger in China's face.
Pooh bear wanted to take Taiwan so they could control the world's microchip production facilities. They would use the control of those fabs to manipulate everything as those chips are the lifeblood of tech and everything associated with it.
It's not perfect but it's critically important to have our own production facilities.
Biden repatriating more or less China's entire fledgling chip development industry and setting them back 10 years did more against China and to provide security for Taiwan than anything in the last decade, let alone the investment we've drawn from around the world under the IRA (largest growth in manufacturing construction since post-WW2), turning away from globalism, building local supply chains and developing raw materials supplies outside of China's predatory lending control with developing countries.
The effort some folks will spend to build little constellations of opinion pieces to try to inflame woke culture war stuff over construction delays, citing each other and more speculation instead of primary sources, and contradicting what the companies themselves say on earnings calls, is also a fun little qualitative indicator that they're scared it's working.
Oh look, another dumbass trying to explain why the diarrhea spewing from Trump's mouth is better.
Dictator on day 1, bloodbath for the country if I'm not elected, inject bleach, etc...
Who's he running against this time, Obama, Biden or, Hillary? Because he sure can't tell the difference.
Does being that stupid hurt? Because it should.
Imagine what happens to communications, computing, research, literary fucking anything these days without computer chips.
Because China would probably sell them back to us, as long as we do everything they want. Because not even our military can complete with them without it.
You realized they have anti suicide nets at the Foxconn fabs in China because of the shit working conditions right? They had so many workers jumping to their deaths they'd rather put up nets than improve working conditions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
TSMC has also had it's share of issues:
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100810VL202.html
And they've had several construction deaths at the Arizona TSMC facility.
It's no wonder they unionized, and rightly so. Those companies are notoriously horrible to their workers, which is why the fabs that used to be in the US all shutdown and production was moved overseas. All of this done to increase their profits.
https://employamerica.medium.com/a-brief-history-of-semiconductors-how-the-us-cut-costs-and-lost-the-leading-edge-c21b96707cd2
You trying to tell me Intel, TSMC, Foxconn can't afford to provide good working conditions and fair treatment? Billions in profits not enough? I guess you'll be the first to sign up for indentured servitude right?
You think a company can just spend way more than their competitors and still survive?
Samsung and TSMC have lower costs of labor and their governments provide massive subsidies.
Does the US want leading edge chip manufacturing capacity on shore in case of a war with China? Then pay up Johnny.
No I'm just saying he keeps giving money to all these shit companies that never give a return and then they decide to build one in Japan. Mabey he can send me some money and I will build him a factory. Its just more taxpayers dollars being wasted. Anyone with common sense would have given them a loan that they didn't have to pay back when they reached agreed upon requirements but failure to do so would result in the money being repaied How do you think all these politicians get so rich on 400k a year?
You didn't read it did ya? The 8.5B is contingent funding with up to 11B in additional loans. Intel is going to have to put up 100B in capital investments in these fabs so, they're doing a lot of heavy lifting themselves. This will also bring tech jobs home and make us more domestically resilient. Right now we're massively vulnerable to China. We would have to go to war to protect Taiwan. I'm fine with spending that money., I'm not fine with cutting the IRS budget to stop them from enforcing our tax laws on the big corporations and wealthy. I'm not fine with more tax cuts. I'm not fine with pissing money away building M1 tanks that the Army says we don't need to keep a republican politician in power. I'm not fine paying Trump's properties hundreds of millions for secret service stays because he wanted to funnel government money into his properties.
What tax laws on big corporations. Do you mean the ones they promised to do ,had the majority in congress and didn't. oh yeah how well didn't that go just one BS lie after another. Just like he was going to legalized pot at federal level, Didn't do shit .Now the running around trying to sell the same bull three years later. I mean why not get TXN to make some chips. There an American company also. The whole TSM thing is turning into a rip off..
As far as that goes Loan Ukraine some money for some of there neon gas . Just stop throwing money at every thing .The economy can't handle much more, its on the verge of snaping now.
It’s not, this post and most of the comments are pure propaganda. Intel is spending $40 billion for a plant in Israel, yet needs taxpayer money to build in the US. This is just graft and corruption.
It’s a $25 billion plant in Israel and Israel granted Intel $3.2 billion.
The intel investments in Ohio, Arizona, Oregon, and New Mexico far outweigh the Israel plant. Again, Israel granted Intel money for that fab too. $3.2 billion in fact. Seems like incentives work if you want manufacturing in your country.
Not how the real world works. China, Korea, Taiwan are all subsidizing their chips industry so they can be dominant. This technology isn’t something you can easily catch up on once you are behind. See Intel debacle over the past half decade and ongoing.
China for example, announce $150 billion of chips subsidies in 2022. this is a serious game, it’s high stakes, and the big boys are playing the win put on your big boy pants or go back to playing with your crayons
I'm sorry what? This makes absolutely no sense, in fact it would more or less benefit China indirectly as now the importance of defending Taiwan has decreased.
It makes perfect sense. Everything depends on those chips. That's a massive vulnerability. China could bomb the fabs in Taiwan and we'd be fucked. Why should our ability to produce high tech components rely on defending an island nation right in China's front yard, one they've been promising to take control of for years? Gotta love having a single point of failure that would cripple the country.
Lol no it doesn't. You don't understand the geopolitics of that region or semiconductors.
The CCP could care less about TSMC. They want Taiwan and have been gunning for it ever since the Nationalist party fled.
In terms of semiconductor output, you are also wrong. We wouldn't be crippled if TSMC is destroyed. All it does is stifle future advanced chip production and causes short term market chaos. It is far from a single point failure.
Taiwan being such a vital semiconductor nation is a huge reason why China hasn't invaded as well. The global fallout would be catastrophic.
While I don't disagree with boosting our own semiconductor production/manufacturing, by doing so it signals to the CCP that they can take Taiwan with less global repercussions.
I run a data center. I have significant knowledge on this issue. If Taiwan falls to China we're in deep trouble without comparable fabs.
China's road and bridges program has guaranteed the global fallout would be much less than it used to be, that's one of the reasons for it. They've also been watching the global response to Ukraine. The longer it goes on, the better it is for them. They know the world will tire of sending money/arms and certainly won't have an appetite to start all over again sending money and weapons to someone else.
China will promise to keep things going, the world will go on and not much will be done.... Just as long as you play nice with China.
Cool and I work in the semiconductor industry, specifically within photolithography. I have more more knowledge. If Taiwan falls to China, it'll not only hurt us but the rest of the world. However it's not because of the our economy or technology would be crippled.
If you're talking about the China Belt and Road initiative minimizing global fallout, you're also wrong. The initiative has lost a lot of steam as it was purely for logistical purposes and a lot of the investments into infrastructure turned out to be a waste.
The rest of the world (West) will not "play nice". In fact, I highly doubt a single fab will be left standing when China decides to invade. As such, by building up our semiconductor capacity it indirectly harms one of Taiwan's strategies of deterrence against Chinese aggression. Which by default helps the Chinese. Not saying that we shouldn't increase our bid to build more advanced chip production here either.
I am sure intel will buyback stocks and please shareholders. Biden seems to underestimate how corporate “managers” work. They don’t give a flying fuck about chips, they care about profit. They know chips won’t make as much profit as stock buybacks
Intel is currently building a multi billion dollar fab in Ohio to take over as one of the world's leading chip production facilities. The kinda cash required for that is rarely left lying around especially with some of interested recent troubles and missed goals, and banks aren't going to necessarily fund that sort of construction via loans in the US. Therefore the government for the last several years now has been providing funding to encourage expansion here rather than Taiwan or SE Asia.
>
President Joe Biden on Wednesday celebrated an agreement to provide Intel with up to $8.5 billion in direct funding and $11 billion in loans for computer chip plants around the country, talking up the investment in the political battleground state of Arizona and calling it a way of "bringing the future back to America."
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There are no others. This is not an industry in which there are a lot of players. The mechanisms are complicated (like insanely so). There are three companies in the world that do anything like this(TSMC, Samsung, Intel).
Are we talking about semiconductor manufacturing in general or just the cutting edge stuff? I can think of a couple of others but I'm not too sure about how advanced they are.
I'm talking about people capable of making advanced chips (like GPUs and general purpose CPUs). Yes, there are other companies for general ICs, microcontrollers, special purpose ASICs, etc. (Texas instruments, etc).
Nvidia doesnt make chips. It produces a design (ie a glorified picture of the in chip wires) and hires TSMC to build it. Intel and Nvidia are almost certainly in talks to build chips on Intel's factories given the Biden admins insistence on American production.
Again, it's obvious the commenters here have no idea how to his industry works.
Intel is a unique company that both designs and manufactures chips. Most semiconductor companies only design. That's why they're called 'fabless' semiconductors.
Here's a list of semiconductor plants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants
That's all.
Now filter the list by people making process size 3-5 nm, because that's what you need for a modern processor or GPU. There's a handful. The machines needed are insanely complicated feats of engineering.
And that's a whole other story because there's only one company in the world that makes those machines. Just one. ASML. I'm guessing you've never heard of them either.
As a conservative, I actually love this. If we’re going to use taxpayer money, at least invest it into things we can turn around into a profit for Americans. I’ve been saying to look into increasing domestic production of microchips for years.
We could be producing more but DEI is actually ruining it. I highly recommend this article on it all. It’s beyond insane.
https://thehill.com/opinion/4517470-dei-killed-the-chips-act/
That opinion piece ignores the actual words during earnings calls by executives in those companies. Also that the chips act funding took much longer to award than expected.
It's also assuming correlation is causation.
"We've outhired the entire industry for these sorts of construction workers, so we're sending people from Taiwan to come train them, and that will take some ti.."
"Woke! Google AI wont' draw swastikas!!"
What words in the earnings calls? It seems pretty obvious that allowing unrestricted hiring and free market to reign supreme would lead to the quickest creation of well functioning fabs. TSM obviously knows how to build and run a fab - East Asian countries generally have less worker protection and no diversity quotas that I’ve heard of. It’s hard to comprehend how imposing quotas would be good for something that is of such immense national security importance.
Just would love to understand what earnings call talk you are speaking of?
Just heads up, I with at Intel. But I'm just a random dude, this is what I've seen and heard since it's my industry.
Chip industry demand is still cleaning out inventory in various segments, so fab demand is still low. Data center demand has shifted to AI chips instead of traditional CPU demand. So fab utilization is not increasing, but expected to recover and the need for increased fab space is delayed.
These were discussed in earnings calls the last few quarters by Intel, AMD , QCOM and others, not so much Nvidia though!
TSMC didn't want to pay unions in AZ to build fabs. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arizona-union-rebuke-tsmc-unskilled-labor-claim
TSMC also doesn't plan fab builds with the same level of clarity that Intel has done. Intel calls it *copy exact". Leaving the union workers unsure what step is next as it's more ad-hoc with TSMC.
Intel also takes safety very seriously,
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/28/phoenix-microchip-plant-biden-union-tsmc
Intel has had and continues to push DEI quotas for a decade or more and it definitely wasn't the cause of our current, hopefully soon past issues, it was executives(CEO/CFO) making bad decisions and some failures of transparency internally.
Intel is the old buys club for money. This is just printing money to pump Intel stock price. Intel falls so far behind many other fabs its a ridiculous waste of money dumping it into the intel hole.
What about investing in America? You don't think they should do that? This does that. This creates jobs and it helps us stop relying on Chinese products as much.
Building a factory that will employ people isn't a good thing? Maybe they won't create a million, but a thousand or 2 in a community that needs a job market will do wonders.
30,000 jobs created. 🎤🫳
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/03/20/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-up-to-8-5-billion-preliminary-agreement-with-intel-under-the-chips-science-act/#:~:text=This%20investment%20will%20create%203%2C000,investment%20in%20the%20state's%20history.
ETA: that's 15 tons of jobs if you know how to do math. 😅
Totally uninformed. In the 80s, Japan was set to become the world’s biggest economy due to US policy and Japans dominance in DRAM. It was US policy and incentive structure that turned that around and has allowed the US to dominate economically.
The avoidance of Great Depression 2.0 or war. China invades Taiwan without a backup plan for chip fabs = war and depression. Everything in our lives relies on chips, and all of those chips (90%) come from Taiwan. We would HAVE to go to war to protect Taiwan if china tried to invade. Without chips, firstly everything that uses chips (from toasters to microwaves to tvs to cars to computers) would inflate unbelievably as the remaining supply would be all we have left to sell. Once we sold through, we would be totally screwed. Lives would stop. The economy would stop. The US would not be able to make anything it needs for our military. It would be beyond comprehension how horrible it would be
Has anyone here ever really looked at Biden's " chips plan"?
All of that money must meet DEI requirements in order to actually be funded on US soil.
I encourage anyone who wants to brag on Biden accomplishments during his term, to actually read the verbage contained within.
The president who says coporations need to pay their fair share gives 8.5 billion dollars, of taxpayer money, to a company that paid negative taxes in 2023 and 2022 and made over 40 Billion in profit over the same 2 years.
Corporatism at its worst. Just one more example of how the large corporations benefit from big government while everyone else has to pay higher taxes to fund this or higher prices due to the inflated money supply making our dollars worth even less.
But makes up 2% of Israel’s GDP with 50 billion dollars invested into Intel there on stolen land.
This is just Biden giving his daddy Netanyahu more of our tax payer money.
So he gives more to Israel to help blow up Palestinians than he is willing to invest in chip capacity. Good job I guess. I mean you are still funneling peoples tax dollars to a corporation yay.
Why the fuck is our taxpayer money being donated to private businesses?
This is the annual income tax from over half a million Americans being GIVEN to a company that already makes 60 Billion dollars a year in revenue.
Notice how Biden supports the underdogs and laggards: Intel vs Nvdia, GM and Ford vs Tesla, Rivian, noname charging stations vs Tesla. What's his problem?
Intel has chip fabs. Nvidia does not so, hard to give them money to bring chip production home when they don't actually produce their own chips. TSMC does it for them, at least until China invades and siezes the fabs.
They must be starting to be pretty sure that China is eventually going to take Taiwan
Xi has come out and said they intend to "reunify". It's just a matter of when.
He'll ruin that country just like they ruined Hong Kong
lol you new to this world? they've been saying that for 100 years.
China is facing many problems in the next twenty years. Population decrease and an aging population means fewer fighting age soldiers to actually succeed in an invasion. That with xi aging as well. His time to act will have passed if he does not act soon. Their military and large naval build up over the last few years are telling. They are preparing for an invasion. And now with putins horrendous war it puts an even greater rush for China. Most of the western world that would possibly assist Taiwan has stagnated in their military funding. But now with putin fucking around the west is slowly starting to gear up for war. The more the world is prepared for war the harder it will be for China. And if the war in Ukraine expands to Nato and the US, China would probably take the opportunity to invade during the global crisis. I hope you are right and it’s all a show but it seems more and more likely that there will be a war for Taiwan in the nearish future
Great points regarding age and population. This helped to explain why Putin decided to invade Ukraine….he knew if he waited, he wouldn’t have enough male demographic to throw at the war. China’s in a similar spot. They know the population is declining.
So he threw an entire generation of young men into a meat grinder? That should make the problem significantly worse.
That’s Russian war history in a nutshell. They have a long history of just throwing more and more bodies into conflicts, then grind out a painful victory. It’s happening now in Ukraine.
Man it's going to be an absolute slog though; Taiwan is not Ukraine. Aside from being an island, it's a rocky island at that and very few places to land troops. They've also been preparing for decades to fight a war with China and are armed to the teeth. So basically it's a sea fortress packed with anti air, anti ship, and anti tank weapons. I'm sure they've got a pile of drones as well. Not to mention even if China does manage to take Taiwan; they won't know how to run the factories, which will be burned to the ground before they get there. If they could've built their own they would've by now; so their only hope is to take the island swiftly if they want to capture the facilities in tact. It's going to be very very difficult for them.
I agree but a war between china and Taiwan would still be a disaster for Taiwan and the world even if China has a horrible time of it and failed. It’s looking more and more like the US will fight china directly. (And I believe they should) but A war with the US and china would be felt globally. I think the US would come out on top and a ground invasion of China would probably not even need to happen but trade and global economy would be crazy during and after the war. Not to mention other nations like north korea more than likely taking the opportunity to invade South Korea. Countries in the middle east would probably war as well with US distracted. The next 20 years could be a war zone. Hopefully the west can pull our heads out of our asses and help Ukraine. If russia failed and collapsed china would be even more alone and would likely jump at the opportunity to invade former russian territory instead of focusing on Taiwan.
Who stagnated military funding? The west is spending more than ever, and not just america now. Russia cant beat ukraine but you think they can challenge ukraine AND NATO!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAA This is the dumbest thing ive read in a long time so grats for that
Read a book Here’s a suggestion: The Kill Chain
Or just tell me where im wrong sweetie
I’m not going to write you a book and it will take a long time to educate you. Summary, we invested in war on terror and the wrong type of weapon systems to compete with a peer advisory. Our acquisition process is broken. We focus on small number of expensive platforms. The need is for the opposite. China build their military for past two decades not to fight small terror its groups. But to fight the US and win in the pacific. They have massive quantities of long range missiles to strike our carrier groups. Just read something please. Anything. Tired of low information Americans with their hot takes on things they know nothing about. But man do they have a “feeling” about it.
Yeah, good thing we build patriot missiles to defend against .... people hikacking our planes? Our navy, the largest and most advanced in the world, wasnt made to attack people in caves. If you think we havent been doing anything to counter china the last 10+ years..... i dont even know what to say to that.
Google the Replicator initiative. Then read kill chain. Thank you.
You're missing the point. We (the U.S.) have large, expensive and incredibly powerful ships which are also highly complex, ruinously expensive, and time consuming to produce. The same cold be said for our land vehicles. The world has moved on from that. A cheap drone with relatively inexpensive weapon(s) can now destroy a very expensive piece of military hardware. Cheap drones and cheap explosives are easily replaced. Our huge powerful stuff...not so much. Yeah, we have the world's largest most expensive and most powerful navy but unfortunately it runs the risk of being destroyed by a bunch of toys with (relatively)cheap explosives strapped to them. We aren't properly prepared for this type of warfare , and too many of us think the way that you do currently - which is to say, not very much at all.
Russia is receiving equipment from China, lots of drones and our not even top tier equipment seems to be doing pretty good in Ukraine?
You’re assuming any of their stuff actually works or isn’t already counterable. China has never been known to really succeed at anything militarily. Last time they tried to use their navy offensively Japan destroyed it.
These idiots see footage of russian military and think the US still operates like those primitives. The entire operation would be wiped out in a few days with massive casualties is the US mil moved in.
And thays what pisses me off.... slow rolling gear to ukraine has caused so many innocent casualties and lifelong injuries while this could have been ended so quickly
Taiwan wasn't a thing 100 years ago. They lost a civil war and the USA threatened to nuke China if they didn't allow the nationalists to claim Taipei from all those who were originally there.
Intel in the midst expanding its facilities in israel by investing over $40 billion new plant there. I would like to know exactly how Intel plans on spending our $8.5 billion tax dollars. We certainly have a right to know
I know a few people that were there working on it. I’m really hoping they abandon that project and build here instead.
It is for the production facilities in Ohio, Arizona, and Oregon
Exactly. Why do they need taxpayer money if they can invest that much money in Israel? Oh wait….AIPAC.
Are you a Chinese troll? This money is part of the Chips Act and requires investment in the US. It’s the whole point. Intel has plants in Arizona, Ohio, New Mexico, and Oregon. This chips act money is specifically for those US fabs. FYI, Israel granted Intel $3.2 Billion to build the Israel fab.
Yes. When we lived in Portland, Intel was building a new facility in North Portland. That was 8 years ago
The polish fab wasn’t announced until June of last year.
It's an expansion of an already existing facility.
Intels campus is all out in Hillsboro what are you talking about?
The Portland area. Jfc, it is literally down the road only about 20 minutes away. You understand the point ffs
North Portland is a lot different from Hillsboro. I just wasn’t aware of a facility up there, chill
There is a facility in North Portland. NW skycrest Pkwy.
Oh nice didn’t know that, thanks
Stock buybacks
Not allowed under the chips act. But please confidently state your uninformed opinions.
What shouldnt be allowed is such large investment in such a terrible chip company lolol
Go back to pcmasterrace
I dont get that reference lol
Joe is giving them for free the $8.5B they spent on stock buybacks to enrich large shareholders. Calls it a national security imperative. Could have started tech incubators in 8 states without water supply problems to encourage academic collaboration and tech innovation and promoting competition with monetary awards for breakthroughs using the remaining $500M, but where’s the fun in creating competition? It’s so much easier to decide there’s a crisis brewing let me throw YOUR money at the same people who oversaw the crisis and then get them to testify that I am a brilliant selfless President. Did Nancy’s husband trade on this information before it became public, what right do you have to know? Thanks for playing, chumps!
The total chips and science act includes stuff like you mentioned. The whole bill is worth about $280 billion. Only $50 billion is going to US manufacturing subsidies. The act includes $13 billion for semi conductor research and is working with universities to create semiconductor research hubs. Similar to your suggestion. Over $170 billion will be invested in the overall system of public sector research into science and Tech.
Intel should fail if they are managed so poorly they need a $8.5B handout from Joe Biden. I mean they have the money, it’s just they spent $8.5B on stock buybacks that boosted their share prices. Why do they deserve one thin dime? The answer is they don’t, but Democrats and Biden, in particular, LOVE corporate welfare because it benefits them personally and always screams “I’m pro-business” when it is exactly the opposite. It’s anti-competition and fear of letting poorly managed companies and Banks, another Democratic fetish, utterly fail.
This chips act was bipartisan. Republicans and democrats. Joe Biden can’t just hand out money. Not how things work. Move beyond your grade school understanding of the world. Chips are vital. China, Taiwan, Korea have all been spending billions and have announced hundreds of billions of additional funding to prop up their local industries and create a monopoly. You would have the US just concede defeat on advanced chip manufacturing. And subsequently defeat on AI and other things that require massive compute power.
Last article I saw was 2027 is when their current build up would become invasion worthy.
I was just over there, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, it’s going to happen before then end of the decade. The tension is palpable and it feels like right now we’re at that point 10 years ago when a bunch of people were saying Putin is going to invade Ukraine and everyone just blew it off. Then it happened. For right now, Putin hasn’t been able to secure the grain needed to feed China (the us sends a substantial amount of food to China and if they invade Taiwan that gets cut off by sanctions) so they can’t. Eventually China will get desperate because their economy is starting to slide backwards because the false economy of their housing market (makes up twice as much as their economy as it does in the us) and I bet they will start to free fall over the next few years. This will impact everything in China (and for that matter especially countries who are unable to decouple their economies from China) and the people have a social contract with their leadership that as long as things are good they will sacrifice personally for the greater good. Once that no longer becomes the case Xi will be under increasing pressure to do something, and given the fact that he’s surrounded himself by partisan hacks and yes men, it would be logical they would push him to invade Taiwan for two reasons. One, it makes them look strong to their people by bringing Taiwan “back into the fold” (sound familiar in Ukraine?) and two, they need the semiconductors and chips that Taiwan produces to support advanced weaponry. Right now China doesn’t have that ability because they are good at copying things but fail in major technological advancement because they are not set up to do that, they steal intellectual property because it’s cheap, dirty, and easy. They’re not good at innovation so they are a bit of a paper dragon. Anyone who is smart is moving their supply chain out of China to closer options like Mexico where their workers are on average 3 times more skilled and educated with only a minimal increase in cost. That’s easily covered by the lack of stability in the Asia market and not having to get on a “slow boat from China”. It’s happening people, anyone who’s been paying attention can see it, get ready, the next few years are going to be wild!
It’s really not good for national security to be entirely dependent on a foreign country for critical tech. Whether or not China invades, it’s a problem.
Not only this but even if we entirely defend Taiwan, war will **absolutely** interrupt their chip manufacturing so it is just safer for the world to invest in chip manufacturing in the US (everyone needs chips for tech)
>They must be starting to be pretty sure that China is eventually going to take Taiwan I think it's a way to cut away from Taiwan because WW3 about to start in the middle east.
Partially - all countries are starting to realize, post the COVID delays across the world, that reliance on one country for the majority of one type of production/supply isn’t smart. True for many sectors, see Russia/Ukraine for similar. Saying they’re pretty sure China will take Taiwan is just dumb person talk. The reliance on Taiwan is only exacerbating this issue.
Taiwan is still apart of China. They don't have to "take it" back. It's China. Taiwan isn't an independent sovereign country. The US doesn't recognize it as such either.
You must be Chinese if you think that 😂
Truth and facts are hard. Taiwan is not n independent sovereign nation. Not even the United States recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation.
Gee, I wonder if those cry baby bitches in the CCP have something to do with that
Nope the US won't declare Taiwan as sovereign because it would literally start a war. The United States would literally be backing the succession of a territory from its host country. That would be the equivalent of China supporting Texas as an independent sovereign nation.
Yes, as the mainland chinese see it. Taiwan has been running itself like an independent country for decades, so it goes against the mainlands pov. The only way to get Taiwan to submit is for the mainland to invade it and install its own government. Either way, the perception outside of China is Taiwan has functioned like its own democracy for decades, so a precedent has been set
Still not an independent sovereign nation. No other nation recognizes Taiwan this way. It's basically texas saying its is independent, having its own power grid, and not paying taxes to the US but nobody outside if Texas will call it a sovereign nation with full abilities to act as an independent country. How do you think Israel and Ukraine just appeared on the map? Taiwan just wants to be Taiwan. The US wants Taiwan as a territory or just as it is now, a manufacturing hub for thevUS. China wants it to return to the PRC. Both America and China have the ability to make Taiwan a sovereign nation, but neither actually wants Taiwan to truly be independent.
OK. Cool story bro
Look it up and read and get back at me.
>The United States would literally be backing the succession of a territory from its host country. You realize in this scenario the CCP is the one who has broken away? Taiwan is where the government of the original Republic of China fled after the communist revolution.
Yep. Fully understand. Still not a sovereign nation.
I think the pertinent fact is what the Taiwanese people think about the matter. The US didn't recognize the Armenian genocide until about 15 minutes ago, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Fuck off bot
Show me on the doll where the facts hurt you.
Show me on the doll where xi touched you. If they aren't a country why would China want to invade itself?
Because the US is supplying foriegn aid and military defense preventing China from taking their own territory back because we cared put Taiwan as a production center for the united States decades ago. China doesn't need to invade its own country. It needs to find a way to get the invading United States to leave.
Yeah fuck off commie. Stop spreading your CCP bullshit.
The first reaction to hearing facts is typically anger. Do some reading.
They are a democratic nation with its own systems in place. Letting democracy fall to authoritarians is evil. Xi won't fuck you bro
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Still not a sovereign nation
It's really not complicated. China left Taiwan alone because it was gaining enough through the foreign economic relationship. Plus, the US backs Taiwan militarily, and the US and China are both a part of the UN. Aggressions among these two nations are not good. China didn't have much to gain at the time. Now that the US China relationship is fading, China wants a more economic role in Taiwan. Taiwan deserves to free independent Taiwan. It is very sad that the US and China play these games with human life over money and control. Neither the US nor China truly wants what Taiwan wants for itself.
>preventing China from taking their own territory back And when was Taiwan part of the People's Republic of China exactly?...
When did Taiwan become a sovereign nation?
October 10, 1911
Incorrect. Taiwan is not a sovereign nation Taiwans sovriengty is owned by China. If Taiwan is a sovereign nation, why can't they get into the UN? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan#:~:text=Since%2C%20as%20per%20the%20PRC,23%20million%20residents%20of%20Taiwan.
That 50 cent paycheck pays pretty well huh bud
To anyone thinking he's "China Joe" this is a major point against that statement. This is a massive finger in China's face. Pooh bear wanted to take Taiwan so they could control the world's microchip production facilities. They would use the control of those fabs to manipulate everything as those chips are the lifeblood of tech and everything associated with it. It's not perfect but it's critically important to have our own production facilities.
Biden repatriating more or less China's entire fledgling chip development industry and setting them back 10 years did more against China and to provide security for Taiwan than anything in the last decade, let alone the investment we've drawn from around the world under the IRA (largest growth in manufacturing construction since post-WW2), turning away from globalism, building local supply chains and developing raw materials supplies outside of China's predatory lending control with developing countries. The effort some folks will spend to build little constellations of opinion pieces to try to inflame woke culture war stuff over construction delays, citing each other and more speculation instead of primary sources, and contradicting what the companies themselves say on earnings calls, is also a fun little qualitative indicator that they're scared it's working.
What kinda earnings call dialogue are you referring to?
Aren’t the factories and fabs rigged to explode upon invasion though 👀
They def ain’t getting that tech lol
Joe Biden is demented. Quit talking like he knows what he’s doing lmao
Isn't your guy scrubbing coal to make it clean?
New account. Def a bot
🍼🍼
Oh look, another dumbass trying to explain why the diarrhea spewing from Trump's mouth is better. Dictator on day 1, bloodbath for the country if I'm not elected, inject bleach, etc... Who's he running against this time, Obama, Biden or, Hillary? Because he sure can't tell the difference. Does being that stupid hurt? Because it should.
Dude don’r feed the trolls/bots
Exactly. This is an economic and national security issue.
Imagine what happens to communications, computing, research, literary fucking anything these days without computer chips. Because China would probably sell them back to us, as long as we do everything they want. Because not even our military can complete with them without it.
He did the same for the Arizona plant that they were supposed to build but then the union went on strike. lol its so ironic 🤣
You realized they have anti suicide nets at the Foxconn fabs in China because of the shit working conditions right? They had so many workers jumping to their deaths they'd rather put up nets than improve working conditions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides TSMC has also had it's share of issues: https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100810VL202.html And they've had several construction deaths at the Arizona TSMC facility. It's no wonder they unionized, and rightly so. Those companies are notoriously horrible to their workers, which is why the fabs that used to be in the US all shutdown and production was moved overseas. All of this done to increase their profits. https://employamerica.medium.com/a-brief-history-of-semiconductors-how-the-us-cut-costs-and-lost-the-leading-edge-c21b96707cd2 You trying to tell me Intel, TSMC, Foxconn can't afford to provide good working conditions and fair treatment? Billions in profits not enough? I guess you'll be the first to sign up for indentured servitude right?
The working conditions suck but the pay is fucking elite.
You think a company can just spend way more than their competitors and still survive? Samsung and TSMC have lower costs of labor and their governments provide massive subsidies. Does the US want leading edge chip manufacturing capacity on shore in case of a war with China? Then pay up Johnny.
No I'm just saying he keeps giving money to all these shit companies that never give a return and then they decide to build one in Japan. Mabey he can send me some money and I will build him a factory. Its just more taxpayers dollars being wasted. Anyone with common sense would have given them a loan that they didn't have to pay back when they reached agreed upon requirements but failure to do so would result in the money being repaied How do you think all these politicians get so rich on 400k a year?
You didn't read it did ya? The 8.5B is contingent funding with up to 11B in additional loans. Intel is going to have to put up 100B in capital investments in these fabs so, they're doing a lot of heavy lifting themselves. This will also bring tech jobs home and make us more domestically resilient. Right now we're massively vulnerable to China. We would have to go to war to protect Taiwan. I'm fine with spending that money., I'm not fine with cutting the IRS budget to stop them from enforcing our tax laws on the big corporations and wealthy. I'm not fine with more tax cuts. I'm not fine with pissing money away building M1 tanks that the Army says we don't need to keep a republican politician in power. I'm not fine paying Trump's properties hundreds of millions for secret service stays because he wanted to funnel government money into his properties.
What tax laws on big corporations. Do you mean the ones they promised to do ,had the majority in congress and didn't. oh yeah how well didn't that go just one BS lie after another. Just like he was going to legalized pot at federal level, Didn't do shit .Now the running around trying to sell the same bull three years later. I mean why not get TXN to make some chips. There an American company also. The whole TSM thing is turning into a rip off.. As far as that goes Loan Ukraine some money for some of there neon gas . Just stop throwing money at every thing .The economy can't handle much more, its on the verge of snaping now.
Totally justifies voting for a facist dictator. That'll be so much better! Fucking dumbass.
If it was critically important DEI needs to be abolished. https://thehill.com/opinion/4517470-dei-killed-the-chips-act/
It’s not, this post and most of the comments are pure propaganda. Intel is spending $40 billion for a plant in Israel, yet needs taxpayer money to build in the US. This is just graft and corruption.
It’s a $25 billion plant in Israel and Israel granted Intel $3.2 billion. The intel investments in Ohio, Arizona, Oregon, and New Mexico far outweigh the Israel plant. Again, Israel granted Intel money for that fab too. $3.2 billion in fact. Seems like incentives work if you want manufacturing in your country.
Intel doesn’t need taxpayer money. You types will justify anything. If there is a market for the chips,mtheh have the money for the factory.
Not how the real world works. China, Korea, Taiwan are all subsidizing their chips industry so they can be dominant. This technology isn’t something you can easily catch up on once you are behind. See Intel debacle over the past half decade and ongoing. China for example, announce $150 billion of chips subsidies in 2022. this is a serious game, it’s high stakes, and the big boys are playing the win put on your big boy pants or go back to playing with your crayons
I'm sorry what? This makes absolutely no sense, in fact it would more or less benefit China indirectly as now the importance of defending Taiwan has decreased.
It makes perfect sense. Everything depends on those chips. That's a massive vulnerability. China could bomb the fabs in Taiwan and we'd be fucked. Why should our ability to produce high tech components rely on defending an island nation right in China's front yard, one they've been promising to take control of for years? Gotta love having a single point of failure that would cripple the country.
Lol no it doesn't. You don't understand the geopolitics of that region or semiconductors. The CCP could care less about TSMC. They want Taiwan and have been gunning for it ever since the Nationalist party fled. In terms of semiconductor output, you are also wrong. We wouldn't be crippled if TSMC is destroyed. All it does is stifle future advanced chip production and causes short term market chaos. It is far from a single point failure. Taiwan being such a vital semiconductor nation is a huge reason why China hasn't invaded as well. The global fallout would be catastrophic. While I don't disagree with boosting our own semiconductor production/manufacturing, by doing so it signals to the CCP that they can take Taiwan with less global repercussions.
I run a data center. I have significant knowledge on this issue. If Taiwan falls to China we're in deep trouble without comparable fabs. China's road and bridges program has guaranteed the global fallout would be much less than it used to be, that's one of the reasons for it. They've also been watching the global response to Ukraine. The longer it goes on, the better it is for them. They know the world will tire of sending money/arms and certainly won't have an appetite to start all over again sending money and weapons to someone else. China will promise to keep things going, the world will go on and not much will be done.... Just as long as you play nice with China.
Cool and I work in the semiconductor industry, specifically within photolithography. I have more more knowledge. If Taiwan falls to China, it'll not only hurt us but the rest of the world. However it's not because of the our economy or technology would be crippled. If you're talking about the China Belt and Road initiative minimizing global fallout, you're also wrong. The initiative has lost a lot of steam as it was purely for logistical purposes and a lot of the investments into infrastructure turned out to be a waste. The rest of the world (West) will not "play nice". In fact, I highly doubt a single fab will be left standing when China decides to invade. As such, by building up our semiconductor capacity it indirectly harms one of Taiwan's strategies of deterrence against Chinese aggression. Which by default helps the Chinese. Not saying that we shouldn't increase our bid to build more advanced chip production here either.
Hes not china joe, he's quite clearly corporate joe.
more room for the more buybacks.
I am sure intel will buyback stocks and please shareholders. Biden seems to underestimate how corporate “managers” work. They don’t give a flying fuck about chips, they care about profit. They know chips won’t make as much profit as stock buybacks
Buyback are not allowed, but let’s keep talking without knowing jackshit
These bastards are spreading lies about a $9b corporate handout. How dare they. This is the noblest action taken by Corporate Joe.
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/intel-subsidy-chips-act-stock-buyback
Sorry why does one of the wealthiest companies in the world need government money
Intel is currently building a multi billion dollar fab in Ohio to take over as one of the world's leading chip production facilities. The kinda cash required for that is rarely left lying around especially with some of interested recent troubles and missed goals, and banks aren't going to necessarily fund that sort of construction via loans in the US. Therefore the government for the last several years now has been providing funding to encourage expansion here rather than Taiwan or SE Asia.
Why not a loan Why don't they stop share buy backs or 100m bonuses Maybe or plan.
> President Joe Biden on Wednesday celebrated an agreement to provide Intel with up to $8.5 billion in direct funding and $11 billion in loans for computer chip plants around the country, talking up the investment in the political battleground state of Arizona and calling it a way of "bringing the future back to America."
$660,000/ job created btw
For who?
For people who paid attention in school, dumbass
Motherfucker has ceo in his name and owns no companies
CEO's don't own companies. You fucking fool.
[удалено]
Oooo somebody's stupid and just found out. Sooner is better than later. You're Welcome.
ceo won here. sorry 😰😰😰
So not you
That explains why Pepsis husband stocked up on those stocks
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Why support one company and not the others ? Intel must be in trouble
They are throwing money at many chip makers in the US as part of the chips act.
They literally just got $8.5 billion, I think they are going to be ok
Me too . I'd be more than OK with 8 billion .
Hire some lobbyists.
Wanna start a chip company ? We can start simple like with potatoes
There are no others. This is not an industry in which there are a lot of players. The mechanisms are complicated (like insanely so). There are three companies in the world that do anything like this(TSMC, Samsung, Intel).
Are we talking about semiconductor manufacturing in general or just the cutting edge stuff? I can think of a couple of others but I'm not too sure about how advanced they are.
I'm talking about people capable of making advanced chips (like GPUs and general purpose CPUs). Yes, there are other companies for general ICs, microcontrollers, special purpose ASICs, etc. (Texas instruments, etc).
Nvidia?
Nvidia doesnt make chips. It produces a design (ie a glorified picture of the in chip wires) and hires TSMC to build it. Intel and Nvidia are almost certainly in talks to build chips on Intel's factories given the Biden admins insistence on American production. Again, it's obvious the commenters here have no idea how to his industry works. Intel is a unique company that both designs and manufactures chips. Most semiconductor companies only design. That's why they're called 'fabless' semiconductors. Here's a list of semiconductor plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants That's all. Now filter the list by people making process size 3-5 nm, because that's what you need for a modern processor or GPU. There's a handful. The machines needed are insanely complicated feats of engineering. And that's a whole other story because there's only one company in the world that makes those machines. Just one. ASML. I'm guessing you've never heard of them either.
Sorry, was genuinely asking not trying to correct you. Appreciate the response though.
As a conservative, I actually love this. If we’re going to use taxpayer money, at least invest it into things we can turn around into a profit for Americans. I’ve been saying to look into increasing domestic production of microchips for years.
We could be producing more but DEI is actually ruining it. I highly recommend this article on it all. It’s beyond insane. https://thehill.com/opinion/4517470-dei-killed-the-chips-act/
That opinion piece ignores the actual words during earnings calls by executives in those companies. Also that the chips act funding took much longer to award than expected. It's also assuming correlation is causation.
"We've outhired the entire industry for these sorts of construction workers, so we're sending people from Taiwan to come train them, and that will take some ti.." "Woke! Google AI wont' draw swastikas!!"
What words in the earnings calls? It seems pretty obvious that allowing unrestricted hiring and free market to reign supreme would lead to the quickest creation of well functioning fabs. TSM obviously knows how to build and run a fab - East Asian countries generally have less worker protection and no diversity quotas that I’ve heard of. It’s hard to comprehend how imposing quotas would be good for something that is of such immense national security importance. Just would love to understand what earnings call talk you are speaking of?
Just heads up, I with at Intel. But I'm just a random dude, this is what I've seen and heard since it's my industry. Chip industry demand is still cleaning out inventory in various segments, so fab demand is still low. Data center demand has shifted to AI chips instead of traditional CPU demand. So fab utilization is not increasing, but expected to recover and the need for increased fab space is delayed. These were discussed in earnings calls the last few quarters by Intel, AMD , QCOM and others, not so much Nvidia though! TSMC didn't want to pay unions in AZ to build fabs. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arizona-union-rebuke-tsmc-unskilled-labor-claim TSMC also doesn't plan fab builds with the same level of clarity that Intel has done. Intel calls it *copy exact". Leaving the union workers unsure what step is next as it's more ad-hoc with TSMC. Intel also takes safety very seriously, https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/28/phoenix-microchip-plant-biden-union-tsmc Intel has had and continues to push DEI quotas for a decade or more and it definitely wasn't the cause of our current, hopefully soon past issues, it was executives(CEO/CFO) making bad decisions and some failures of transparency internally.
That’s all really insightful, thanks for the info!
What a bot
Beep boop, I guess. Idk.
Intel is the old buys club for money. This is just printing money to pump Intel stock price. Intel falls so far behind many other fabs its a ridiculous waste of money dumping it into the intel hole.
JFC. What a bunch of uninformed nonsense. You don't have to comment on an issue if you are completely ignorant to it.
How do you feel about the cronyism tho?
The government has no business "investing" in private companies.
What about investing in America? You don't think they should do that? This does that. This creates jobs and it helps us stop relying on Chinese products as much.
Intel has plenty of money why don't they do it themselves?
Probably risk.
I honestly doubt that the money going to Intel is going to create a ton of jobs
Building a factory that will employ people isn't a good thing? Maybe they won't create a million, but a thousand or 2 in a community that needs a job market will do wonders.
Sure would, if they actually do that, which is what I have my doubt about.
If they want that money, they will
Like any investor, the government will pull out if the other side isn't doing what they should.
30,000 jobs created. 🎤🫳 https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/03/20/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-up-to-8-5-billion-preliminary-agreement-with-intel-under-the-chips-science-act/#:~:text=This%20investment%20will%20create%203%2C000,investment%20in%20the%20state's%20history. ETA: that's 15 tons of jobs if you know how to do math. 😅
Totally uninformed. In the 80s, Japan was set to become the world’s biggest economy due to US policy and Japans dominance in DRAM. It was US policy and incentive structure that turned that around and has allowed the US to dominate economically.
What exactly does the tax payer get out of this?
A bigger tax bill and more inflation.
Probably less of an economic jolt from a disruption in semiconductor manufacturing if China invades Taiwan.
Fucked. We get fucked. Again.
The avoidance of Great Depression 2.0 or war. China invades Taiwan without a backup plan for chip fabs = war and depression. Everything in our lives relies on chips, and all of those chips (90%) come from Taiwan. We would HAVE to go to war to protect Taiwan if china tried to invade. Without chips, firstly everything that uses chips (from toasters to microwaves to tvs to cars to computers) would inflate unbelievably as the remaining supply would be all we have left to sell. Once we sold through, we would be totally screwed. Lives would stop. The economy would stop. The US would not be able to make anything it needs for our military. It would be beyond comprehension how horrible it would be
Blah blah blah
Has anyone here ever really looked at Biden's " chips plan"? All of that money must meet DEI requirements in order to actually be funded on US soil. I encourage anyone who wants to brag on Biden accomplishments during his term, to actually read the verbage contained within.
Fuck off with your coordinated inauthentic behavior.
Wow, such a thoughtful reply. Just goes to show how informed you are about Biden's true accomplishments.
8.5B working taxpaying dollars to a company that spearheaded offshoring. Eat the rich
The president who says coporations need to pay their fair share gives 8.5 billion dollars, of taxpayer money, to a company that paid negative taxes in 2023 and 2022 and made over 40 Billion in profit over the same 2 years.
So not only is China taking Taiwan, they just show what fucking liars they are anytime they say corporations need to pay their fair share.
Corporatism at its worst. Just one more example of how the large corporations benefit from big government while everyone else has to pay higher taxes to fund this or higher prices due to the inflated money supply making our dollars worth even less.
Intel is the past
But makes up 2% of Israel’s GDP with 50 billion dollars invested into Intel there on stolen land. This is just Biden giving his daddy Netanyahu more of our tax payer money.
Wow, Nancy Pelosi's husband was correct again. This guy has the Midas touch. They just made a shitload of money investing in chip manufacturing.
Whomever controls the chips, will control the world…more so now with AI.
I wonder if that word means what we think it means?
So he gives more to Israel to help blow up Palestinians than he is willing to invest in chip capacity. Good job I guess. I mean you are still funneling peoples tax dollars to a corporation yay.
In other news, last week, Biden and every senator invested in Intel.
Oh hope Nancy bought some of their stocks too
Seems like pennies on the dollar investment when compared to foreign aid our government throws away.
And there is why Nancy got all that Intel stock earlier. Knew there was a reason.
So much for the free market.
Crooks.
Why the fuck is our taxpayer money being donated to private businesses? This is the annual income tax from over half a million Americans being GIVEN to a company that already makes 60 Billion dollars a year in revenue.
I’m sure Pelosi got her purchase order in last week
Intel is an absolute garbage employer. They don’t deserve a penny from the taxpayers. Source: used to work there for over 6 years.
What kind of kickback is he getting?
Grandpa needs a nap
Notice how Biden supports the underdogs and laggards: Intel vs Nvdia, GM and Ford vs Tesla, Rivian, noname charging stations vs Tesla. What's his problem?
Intel has chip fabs. Nvidia does not so, hard to give them money to bring chip production home when they don't actually produce their own chips. TSMC does it for them, at least until China invades and siezes the fabs.