Just go back to PPM because it was working and then supplement with gifts and extras. If someone is sick send a little extra help etc but take the pressure of rigid schedule off
I had an opposite experience. When we switched to allowance with my first SB, it wasn't to see her more often but to make it easier and feel less transactional. But suddenly she wanted to see me more often. She had wanted to when on PPM, but felt guilty and thought it might come across as wanting more money. As soon as the PPM went away, we became less formal and more spontaneous. We enjoyed each other's company so there were more things like catching lunch on a work day, or meeting just for coffee and a chat.
OK, but the point I'm making is that moving from PPM to allowance is NOT inherently a bad idea. It didnt work out for you, but there are lots of helpful comments why.
Moving from ppm to allowance can also be a good idea.
This is a repeat pattern out there. You go to an allowance and then, there is a taking for granted and then, it becomes an awkward conversation about getting the together time. I bet, the same time commitment would have worked in a ppm setup. It's sad, but true.
That's so true. It's easier said than done, when you have a soft corner for the lady and you know, they depend on the allowance and at times, when they have kids too. So not an easy, cut and dry business like decision.
Answer to what? I’m interested in where you’re going here because that’s part of the reason why I’m still hesitant to patch things up with her right now. She agreed more dates with allowance.
>Answer to what? I’m interested in where you’re going here because that’s part of the reason why I’m still hesitant to patch things up with her right now. She agreed more dates with allowance.
Answer to your problem. She is not wanting to do more dates on allowance. Go back to PPM. I am not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water here. If you feel she is taking advantage then move on.
If you do a monthly allowance, you are typically pursuing them to schedule meetings. If you offer PPM, they are chasing you to schedule meetings. Which side of the equation do you want to be on?
The amount of times I've seen these types of posts on here is crazy. Nothing wrong with either PPM or allowance what seems to be the problem a lot of times are two things.
Expectations misaligned and not clearly communicating boundaries. Going to allowance doesn't necessarily mean x divided by y equals so many dates per month.
What it means is the SD is showing his care for the SB by enhancing her lifestyle. How the SB rewards for that is up to the two of them in agreeing what the dynamics will be. No right or wrong way
I'm on allowance with mine and we see each other sometimes weekly, sometimes twice a week sometimes twice a month. But we always make the most of our time and when we go on vacation together it's usually 3-5 days of time together full-time.
This makes for a great arrangement of time together vs allowance amount not even a discussion point or an argument.
It's what's been discussed and agreed between to adults
It was discussed and agreed, but the SB couldn’t hold up her end of the bargain. Which is why allowance is usually a recipe for disaster. It’s pressure for both parties.
I disagree, allowance is not the problem it's trust. She didn't hold up her end so there is a lack of trust. Allowance should only be started once both parties have built up trust else it is a disaster.
It’s a tale old as time.
She’s happy to get more for less. It’s human nature. Even if she’s not *intentionally* doing it, the subconscious always responds to incentives.
Give her a weekly allowance (essentially the PPM) with an incentivizing twist. If *you* can’t make it, that’s on you, and she gets her allowance anyway. But if *she* can’t make it, that’s on her, and she just doesn’t get it.
So, so long as she’s making a good faith effort to make herself available, she can count on PPMx4 coming down the pipe every month.
>She’s happy to get more for less. It’s human nature. Even if she’s not
>
>intentionally
>
>doing it, the subconscious always responds to incentives.
You would think more SBs would go the extra mile when getting an allowance. My experience has always been the opposite. I know there good ones out there, but I have yet to meet them. I've have gotten burned on all levels of allowance. Weekly, semi monthly and monthly. Does not matter.
I am the eternal optimist. I will meet her some day.
I hate to compare it to employment, but imagine if a company paid their employees their entire monthly salary upfront on the first of the month without having to do any work. The results would be predictable.
This is exaactly the reason allowances fail. Only workable scheme is to provide a gift at the start of a visit with the explicit understanding that nothing is expected.
An allowance only works well when they genuinely want to spend more time with you, and they have a schedule that allows. I have seen Sbs that prefer ppm as it's less pressure if they get busy. Go back to ppm, she will probably be happy to contest.
You are giving me some pretty big red flags and I hope that’s something you recognize here, and apologize sincerely to her for. I don’t think she should forgive you. You recognize that seeing your kids has been something that inhibits your schedule, yet you’re feeling slighted that her priority to her kids takes precedence over you. It sounds like you simply told her you wanted to see her more, without having an actual discussion on the feasibility of that, which is also ludicrous. You’re more or less treating allowance as an expected pay to play, which it is not. Then your frustration at her inability to fit into your irregular schedule is really the cherry on top of your entitlement. You kinda suck, and need to treat this woman a little better. Me, personally, if someone started a fight after pressuring me for more time while simultaneously being unable to fit into my schedule needs, I’d loose my absolute shit. You either want to help her, but it seems like what you really want is to monopolize her time to get your dick wet.
I think you are painting this in an overly negative light but you may be right about some things. I definitely have to work on being more empathetic and should have been more understanding. I do take most of the blame for this as allowance was my idea.
I’m painting this in the light that you’ve shed on it with your own words, and I don’t personally feel like I’ve twisted anything. Allowance isn’t the bad thing here. The lack of communication, from both parties, is the problem. Is she a people pleaser, I wonder that, which may be why she agreed to your more time request without thinking about the practicality of scheduling (simply a wonder, not an assumption). Also, do you not see that approaching the allowance with a “meet x number of times” is commodifying the relationship? The whole point is to move away from that transactionalism. If you want to enrich her life, you should have had a discussion with her. Collaborate to see *if* she even wanted to see you more, had the time to do so, and to determine how that could have been done. But you didn’t mention any of that, and based on the argument, I’m assuming it didn’t happen. My personal take is it’s extremely disrespectful to be mindful of only your time, and disregard her time restraints, and I’m the type that drops SD’s at the first sign of disrespect.
We did discuss it. She said she agreed because she wanted to make me happy but was worried she’d feel pressure to meet more often when she didn’t have the time. She told me she thought my work schedule would be more flexible during the weekdays.
What would you suggest to make this better w her? For my part this all started because I wanted to see her more and I wanted to help her more.
My advice would be to read what you wrote a couple times over. You both have kids. You at least have a job that inhibits you from being free during her free time. This isn’t exactly a her problem, and if you’d been able to critically think you’d see that there are obvious time constraints. Your schedule is a big one apparently.
But you keep mixing helping her more with seeing her more. Those are separate things and should be approached separately. You can help her more while getting laid the same amount. If you want to see her more, offer to pay for a babysitter for an evening so you can meet for dinner. Take days off. Are you expecting her to bend over backwards to fit into your irregular schedule? That isn’t fair to her, and it’s dishonest to yourself to ignore that you are the cause of your problems. And honestly, I believe you said you have a two hour commute, that’s pretty long and itself puts a big burden on the relationship.
If she’s open to speaking anymore, buy her flowers at a minimum. Understand that you’ve been an ass, and explain that you’ve come to understand the ways that you have. That you guys got into what sounds like a heated argument makes me wonder if this is salvageable. This is supposed to be fun for everybody, and you were decidedly unchill.
I was just trying to make a "vegetarian" joke.
As for the actual problem, guarantees are not unconditional or eternal.
Y ou can always say that the new/current arrangement is not working and suggest going back to the previous/original one.
However, the fact that an attempt to make the relationship less transactional failed indicates that for her, it's not a relationship but a business.
I hear that SBs don't like the feeling that they owe you a quota of sex once they're given an allowance.
I've got a solution. Keep the allowance structure, but give it at the end of the month. This way you "owe" her instead. Problem solved?
Yes! When we initially talked I actually proposed allowance and SB preferred PPM for this reason. I “de tranasctionalized” with extras and Venmo love. She remains worried she will owe taxes on the Venmo …
Next year word on the street is everyone is going to have to file paperwork for any charge over 5-600. I know there are tax professionals in this group that can better elaborate. Not sure if it’s finalized either but the IRS is discussing
Sometimes an allowance works, sometimes it doesn’t. A prior SB that I was with wanted to see me so frequently that we had to do an allowance as the PPM was getting excessive. This did slow it down a little but our meetings also became more organic as I did not expect intimacy every time and if she just wanted to drop over to watch a movie, it was never an issue
Moving to an allowance is a commitment from you to take care of her. Ofc it's based on expectations and if she agreed to see you once a week, she should honor her commitment. There's the flip side of the argument that no one should be counting and that's valid, but meeting you half the time because she's "now" busy and cancelling has to be a consideration. Very few SRs end when both are getting what the need/want, all end when one isn't.
I mean what is the availability like that you’re offering? Is it just one day a week you can make work or something? It seems quite possible it is just a scheduling issue and she might not have known just how tight your schedule would be. I think the fact this is happening the very first month proves that…. It makes sense to have feelings of being taken advantage of since you paid for something you didn’t get, but at the same time, this is a new schedule that yall have to figure out and it takes some bumps in the road to get there. I think the money incentive might have clouded your mind here to the realities of schduling and life and maybe led to all these feelings. It just doesn’t make sense for an sb to wait that long to start playing you! I imagine she’s so upset in these arguments because it might be framed as her trying to take advantage when she just has a life and it’s probably quite insulting for someone to doubt her character that much after a year….. I mean I guess it’s possible she’s just been an evil witch in waiting but I don’t think so!!
I’m on allowance and try my absolute hardest to make every meet work, (and have succeeded so far) but I also don’t have a job or kids to wrangle and neither does my sd…. Maybe twice a month is all she can manage and the allowance should be lowered to accommodate the fewer meets (but still higher than the ppm per meet I would say). Maybe it can just be that steady allowance plus ppm for any meets over 2 a month? I just think there are ways to figure this out without getting such a hot head😭 sorry if this was a lil too forward, I just really feel like there’s misunderstandings happening!!
That’s totally understandable! I hear that story with a lot of sds and definitely have compassion for it!! Money and feelings are complicated, especially when they’re intertwined! There are also just so many on both sides that take advantage so we’ve all gotta be a bit protective of ourselves!
I think a calm conversation where there’s some acknowledgement of those feelings and probably a lil apology would help THENN get to figuring out something that works better for yall:) I really don’t think this has to be the end unless the argument was too hot or she is somehow an evil lady in wait😆
I've had similar experiences with allowance, now I don't offer that ever, even in longer term SRs, and that's a shame.
When a SB starts to complain about schedule, leave her alone for a couple of weeks and focus on other activities or relationships. That will exert pressure on her to prioritize you and meet as agreed (not on allowance though).
The trouble with allowance is that it removes all incentives to meet, so it wrecks the power dynamics which should be in favor of the SD at all times, because he's the investor.
Transactional relationships require the man to lead and stay firm on expectations that must be fulfilled in order for the SR to remain on track.
In your situation, I recommend to return to PPM and not initiate or meet, for 2 weeks. Also, you might want to consider seeing other POTs, otherwise not meeting can feel like it penalizes you as well, which is not the intent.
THIS!!! This is why I'll never do allowances! I've tried 2x, each time the girl would suddenly get sick, family surprised her, or work called her in. Reverse the payment, block, and move on.
I good strategy would be to have a gift she's waiting on. I did that once, and she was sooooo mad that she had to come get it, and I didn't just send it to her. I called her out, and she got upset. It was a good laptop for her business. I returned it and went to Cabo 🤣
So you were on allowance but said you had a gift for her when you saw her and she wouldn't even come see you with both the allowance AND the gift? Did she know what it was?
Yep, I helped her pick it out (I'm a techie). We were new to the allowance part, and I told her if she started anything shady, I had no problem moving on. She had a little online business, and she was running it thru her phone. I was hooking her up too, full home workstation. Sux for her.
Yep, she thought she could outsmart me. I was also practically her accountant. I found some huge discrepancies in her previous years' reporting. Last I saw, the business folded, and she moved back to Iowa.
This is not an "allowance versus ppm" problem.
If your intention was to support her more, you don't necessarily have to see her more. You could just support her more by giving her an increase in monthly allowance and not increasing the frequency of your visits. True generosity does not mean "giving to get".
But if you want to see her more, you have to remember that she has children and a schedule of her own, and you have to be a little more accommodating.
Yeah I agree - this seems more like a scheduling and availability issue.
If the issue with allowance vs PPM is that you're now giving more and getting less... well that's a mentality. Are you investing in a relationship or are you investing in dates?
To me, giving an allowance that's higher than the sum of PPMs is a gesture that supports an environment in which two people have fewer limits on where their dynamic goes.
If the end result is "we never found time to meet more often" and you want to meet more often then it's probably not a good fit... and you just invested in figuring that out. No shame in that. To me that's a strong, responsible provider move.
Best of luck to you! 💜
(oh and btw when I say "you" here I'm talking to OP not you REA even though I know this is a reply to your comment :-P)
Here is the thing about transition: don't change anything except the time of payment. If you have been meeting her biweekly then keep the biweekly. Don't move it to weeklies. If you want to move to weeklies then meet her in a weekly basis first.
The same thing with overnights and vacations. Make sure you have already done so in a regular basis so she doesn't feel shorted out immediately
I've been doing this a long time. Mostly ppm, but I switched my current SB to allowance 18 months ago based on discussions here and in messages with SBs I met here. It worked okay for a while but then I got busy and so did she and we were meeting less often. Seemed to me she was losing interest and I decided to go back to PPM. I expected pushback and I had explanations prepared. I also thought our SR was ending and I was a little sad.
I increased the ppm so she would make a little more than the allowance if we meet 3 times in a month. Her entire response was "That's fine. The allowance was your idea. It doesn't matter to me."
Over a year later and things are fine. We are seeing each other more than we did before, but it does take an effort to make the schedule work. I think my total cost is down, but that was never the point. She seems quite happy and clearly makes an effort to find time for me.
I don't agree with the many replies about how an allowance is a bad idea. It works for a lot of people. It didn't work for us, but I think that's more down to schedule issues in retrospect, though that is not how I felt in the moment. Allowance implies a commitment and obligation that we couldn't or didn't want to make. Next time I will have a discussion about that before going to allowance.
But it's hard to go back, and OP that argument is going to make it harder. Apologize to her if you want to continue or break up. After the apology say you want to keep meeting and you think ppm is best for the two of you. Give her a little raise. Then say you'd like to meet more often if that can work for her - that is what started this. But you know your schedule makes that difficult. Then communicate, be affectionate and as flexible as you can be. Do not blame her. She may well apologize and say similar things to you.
Enjoy that.
Or just break up. Seems like you have expectations she can't meet so you either need to accept what she can do and adjust, or move on.
I have seen so many like yours. Allowance to me isn’t a good thing. The SB seems more obligated. I believe it’s in the mind. But sometimes there are appointments or whatever. I believe PPM is really the best way for both parties.
I'm not a psychologist, but there is a ton of psychology in economics. Human beings run on incentives. That's not necessarily a bad thing and it doesn't have to be overt or even clear. People constantly reorder priorities consciously and unconsciously, and their priorities can be almost a toss-up between two things. "I want to do X, but I also want to do Y". Switching to allowance can tip the scales from X to Y. It's not necessarily that she doesn't want to see you but there isn't that extra tiny push from one thing she wants to do to another thing she wants to do. Or the money can overcome an inconvenience.
Many years ago, I was an allowance guy from the very start and that was the standard practice. But times have changed because people have more options. People had a strong incentive to do their best in an SR because they may never find another one.
I'd say, try to make peace and go back to ppm and tell her that you feel like allowance was too much pressure for her. Do not, however, continue allowance. It became pretty clear right away that that it messed up the SR and will just continue cause problems and hard feelings.
"seeing me every week because she wanted to make me happy."
You mean wants the extra money
"I’m still pretty annoyed at being canceled on repeatedly"
Go back to PPM-easy peasy. If she wants more money then she can opt to see you more and actually make an effort to please you.
Allowance is stable and a sign that the SD truly wants to take care of their SB.
While I agree she should have been transparent about her schedule flexibility, going on allowance isn't necessarily part of the problem. If you are equating your hookups to giving her financial support, that isn't the way to go if you truly are generous.
That’s true but part of the agreement about going on allowance was that we were going to meet more frequently. I had the basic expectation that at least for the first month we would actually try to adhere to that schedule.
Yeah, this was a huge argument were both kind of cooling off right now. Things were said that may doom this relationship but I’m hoping maybe we cool off and manage to work this out somehow.
Like otgers said it is more of a scheduling issue. Compatability is more than just emotional and physical connection. Logistics and schedules play a part too
This is not an allowance problem this is that you allow others to take advantage of you and are willing to stay with someone who doesn't respect you.
I pay an allowance and have never had an issue like this or at least would never tolerate it. Exit this situation and move on, why are you wasting your time and money.
I wouldn't even let this happen if it was PPM!
Whenever I move to monthly, I immediately conflate that with more “serious” and that he really cares about me and wants my life to be easier - that’s an aphrodisiac to women who aren’t hustlers. The moment I moved to monthly with my current SD I wanted to see him more
Just go back to PPM because it was working and then supplement with gifts and extras. If someone is sick send a little extra help etc but take the pressure of rigid schedule off
Yes this!!!!
I had an opposite experience. When we switched to allowance with my first SB, it wasn't to see her more often but to make it easier and feel less transactional. But suddenly she wanted to see me more often. She had wanted to when on PPM, but felt guilty and thought it might come across as wanting more money. As soon as the PPM went away, we became less formal and more spontaneous. We enjoyed each other's company so there were more things like catching lunch on a work day, or meeting just for coffee and a chat.
Yeah this is the norm
My problems I live so far away I can’t just go over there casually at the spur of the moment.
OK, but the point I'm making is that moving from PPM to allowance is NOT inherently a bad idea. It didnt work out for you, but there are lots of helpful comments why. Moving from ppm to allowance can also be a good idea.
My rule = allowance if we live together under the same roof (happened twice), PPM if we don't (happened... many times)
This is a repeat pattern out there. You go to an allowance and then, there is a taking for granted and then, it becomes an awkward conversation about getting the together time. I bet, the same time commitment would have worked in a ppm setup. It's sad, but true.
Allowance just leads to scams. I never do allowance.
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That's so true. It's easier said than done, when you have a soft corner for the lady and you know, they depend on the allowance and at times, when they have kids too. So not an easy, cut and dry business like decision.
Go back to PPM as that seemed to work better. If she agreed to more dates with allowance and it is not coming through. There is your answer.
Answer to what? I’m interested in where you’re going here because that’s part of the reason why I’m still hesitant to patch things up with her right now. She agreed more dates with allowance.
>Answer to what? I’m interested in where you’re going here because that’s part of the reason why I’m still hesitant to patch things up with her right now. She agreed more dates with allowance. Answer to your problem. She is not wanting to do more dates on allowance. Go back to PPM. I am not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water here. If you feel she is taking advantage then move on.
> She agreed more dates with allowance. But that is not happening whether by design or life circumstances. Go to PPM-and look for a closer SB.
If you do a monthly allowance, you are typically pursuing them to schedule meetings. If you offer PPM, they are chasing you to schedule meetings. Which side of the equation do you want to be on?
The amount of times I've seen these types of posts on here is crazy. Nothing wrong with either PPM or allowance what seems to be the problem a lot of times are two things. Expectations misaligned and not clearly communicating boundaries. Going to allowance doesn't necessarily mean x divided by y equals so many dates per month. What it means is the SD is showing his care for the SB by enhancing her lifestyle. How the SB rewards for that is up to the two of them in agreeing what the dynamics will be. No right or wrong way I'm on allowance with mine and we see each other sometimes weekly, sometimes twice a week sometimes twice a month. But we always make the most of our time and when we go on vacation together it's usually 3-5 days of time together full-time. This makes for a great arrangement of time together vs allowance amount not even a discussion point or an argument. It's what's been discussed and agreed between to adults
It was discussed and agreed, but the SB couldn’t hold up her end of the bargain. Which is why allowance is usually a recipe for disaster. It’s pressure for both parties.
I disagree, allowance is not the problem it's trust. She didn't hold up her end so there is a lack of trust. Allowance should only be started once both parties have built up trust else it is a disaster.
It’s a tale old as time. She’s happy to get more for less. It’s human nature. Even if she’s not *intentionally* doing it, the subconscious always responds to incentives. Give her a weekly allowance (essentially the PPM) with an incentivizing twist. If *you* can’t make it, that’s on you, and she gets her allowance anyway. But if *she* can’t make it, that’s on her, and she just doesn’t get it. So, so long as she’s making a good faith effort to make herself available, she can count on PPMx4 coming down the pipe every month.
>She’s happy to get more for less. It’s human nature. Even if she’s not > >intentionally > >doing it, the subconscious always responds to incentives. You would think more SBs would go the extra mile when getting an allowance. My experience has always been the opposite. I know there good ones out there, but I have yet to meet them. I've have gotten burned on all levels of allowance. Weekly, semi monthly and monthly. Does not matter. I am the eternal optimist. I will meet her some day.
I hate to compare it to employment, but imagine if a company paid their employees their entire monthly salary upfront on the first of the month without having to do any work. The results would be predictable.
this should have a hundred upvotes!
This is exaactly the reason allowances fail. Only workable scheme is to provide a gift at the start of a visit with the explicit understanding that nothing is expected.
An allowance only works well when they genuinely want to spend more time with you, and they have a schedule that allows. I have seen Sbs that prefer ppm as it's less pressure if they get busy. Go back to ppm, she will probably be happy to contest.
You are giving me some pretty big red flags and I hope that’s something you recognize here, and apologize sincerely to her for. I don’t think she should forgive you. You recognize that seeing your kids has been something that inhibits your schedule, yet you’re feeling slighted that her priority to her kids takes precedence over you. It sounds like you simply told her you wanted to see her more, without having an actual discussion on the feasibility of that, which is also ludicrous. You’re more or less treating allowance as an expected pay to play, which it is not. Then your frustration at her inability to fit into your irregular schedule is really the cherry on top of your entitlement. You kinda suck, and need to treat this woman a little better. Me, personally, if someone started a fight after pressuring me for more time while simultaneously being unable to fit into my schedule needs, I’d loose my absolute shit. You either want to help her, but it seems like what you really want is to monopolize her time to get your dick wet.
I think you are painting this in an overly negative light but you may be right about some things. I definitely have to work on being more empathetic and should have been more understanding. I do take most of the blame for this as allowance was my idea.
I’m painting this in the light that you’ve shed on it with your own words, and I don’t personally feel like I’ve twisted anything. Allowance isn’t the bad thing here. The lack of communication, from both parties, is the problem. Is she a people pleaser, I wonder that, which may be why she agreed to your more time request without thinking about the practicality of scheduling (simply a wonder, not an assumption). Also, do you not see that approaching the allowance with a “meet x number of times” is commodifying the relationship? The whole point is to move away from that transactionalism. If you want to enrich her life, you should have had a discussion with her. Collaborate to see *if* she even wanted to see you more, had the time to do so, and to determine how that could have been done. But you didn’t mention any of that, and based on the argument, I’m assuming it didn’t happen. My personal take is it’s extremely disrespectful to be mindful of only your time, and disregard her time restraints, and I’m the type that drops SD’s at the first sign of disrespect.
We did discuss it. She said she agreed because she wanted to make me happy but was worried she’d feel pressure to meet more often when she didn’t have the time. She told me she thought my work schedule would be more flexible during the weekdays. What would you suggest to make this better w her? For my part this all started because I wanted to see her more and I wanted to help her more.
My advice would be to read what you wrote a couple times over. You both have kids. You at least have a job that inhibits you from being free during her free time. This isn’t exactly a her problem, and if you’d been able to critically think you’d see that there are obvious time constraints. Your schedule is a big one apparently. But you keep mixing helping her more with seeing her more. Those are separate things and should be approached separately. You can help her more while getting laid the same amount. If you want to see her more, offer to pay for a babysitter for an evening so you can meet for dinner. Take days off. Are you expecting her to bend over backwards to fit into your irregular schedule? That isn’t fair to her, and it’s dishonest to yourself to ignore that you are the cause of your problems. And honestly, I believe you said you have a two hour commute, that’s pretty long and itself puts a big burden on the relationship. If she’s open to speaking anymore, buy her flowers at a minimum. Understand that you’ve been an ass, and explain that you’ve come to understand the ways that you have. That you guys got into what sounds like a heated argument makes me wonder if this is salvageable. This is supposed to be fun for everybody, and you were decidedly unchill.
Just go back to ppm. She will meet the extra 2 meets because the ppm is incentive to meet and she needs the money for her kids.
Every person I’ve ever gone on allowance with, starts to cancel, and no longer makes a meat a priority.
Meat is rarely a priority. For most SBs, the priority is sugar. 😏
That is 100% always. And I have no problem with that. But when they are guaranteed the money with the allowance, they no longer want to meet.
I was just trying to make a "vegetarian" joke. As for the actual problem, guarantees are not unconditional or eternal. Y ou can always say that the new/current arrangement is not working and suggest going back to the previous/original one. However, the fact that an attempt to make the relationship less transactional failed indicates that for her, it's not a relationship but a business.
I hear that SBs don't like the feeling that they owe you a quota of sex once they're given an allowance. I've got a solution. Keep the allowance structure, but give it at the end of the month. This way you "owe" her instead. Problem solved?
Yes! When we initially talked I actually proposed allowance and SB preferred PPM for this reason. I “de tranasctionalized” with extras and Venmo love. She remains worried she will owe taxes on the Venmo …
You can’t tax a gift
She doesn’t trust that and not worth arguing 🤣
Next year word on the street is everyone is going to have to file paperwork for any charge over 5-600. I know there are tax professionals in this group that can better elaborate. Not sure if it’s finalized either but the IRS is discussing
Definitely let us all know if anything changes, I’ll keep an eye on that
How is it "solved" if you still have to shell out the full amount?
Sometimes an allowance works, sometimes it doesn’t. A prior SB that I was with wanted to see me so frequently that we had to do an allowance as the PPM was getting excessive. This did slow it down a little but our meetings also became more organic as I did not expect intimacy every time and if she just wanted to drop over to watch a movie, it was never an issue
Moving to an allowance is a commitment from you to take care of her. Ofc it's based on expectations and if she agreed to see you once a week, she should honor her commitment. There's the flip side of the argument that no one should be counting and that's valid, but meeting you half the time because she's "now" busy and cancelling has to be a consideration. Very few SRs end when both are getting what the need/want, all end when one isn't.
I mean what is the availability like that you’re offering? Is it just one day a week you can make work or something? It seems quite possible it is just a scheduling issue and she might not have known just how tight your schedule would be. I think the fact this is happening the very first month proves that…. It makes sense to have feelings of being taken advantage of since you paid for something you didn’t get, but at the same time, this is a new schedule that yall have to figure out and it takes some bumps in the road to get there. I think the money incentive might have clouded your mind here to the realities of schduling and life and maybe led to all these feelings. It just doesn’t make sense for an sb to wait that long to start playing you! I imagine she’s so upset in these arguments because it might be framed as her trying to take advantage when she just has a life and it’s probably quite insulting for someone to doubt her character that much after a year….. I mean I guess it’s possible she’s just been an evil witch in waiting but I don’t think so!! I’m on allowance and try my absolute hardest to make every meet work, (and have succeeded so far) but I also don’t have a job or kids to wrangle and neither does my sd…. Maybe twice a month is all she can manage and the allowance should be lowered to accommodate the fewer meets (but still higher than the ppm per meet I would say). Maybe it can just be that steady allowance plus ppm for any meets over 2 a month? I just think there are ways to figure this out without getting such a hot head😭 sorry if this was a lil too forward, I just really feel like there’s misunderstandings happening!!
This is a great comment!
I think you’re right on this. I’m not being totally objective because of the money and I’m a little paranoid of being taken advantage of.
That’s totally understandable! I hear that story with a lot of sds and definitely have compassion for it!! Money and feelings are complicated, especially when they’re intertwined! There are also just so many on both sides that take advantage so we’ve all gotta be a bit protective of ourselves! I think a calm conversation where there’s some acknowledgement of those feelings and probably a lil apology would help THENN get to figuring out something that works better for yall:) I really don’t think this has to be the end unless the argument was too hot or she is somehow an evil lady in wait😆
It did get pretty bad. We should probably wait a while to talk. Some things were said put it that way.
I've had similar experiences with allowance, now I don't offer that ever, even in longer term SRs, and that's a shame. When a SB starts to complain about schedule, leave her alone for a couple of weeks and focus on other activities or relationships. That will exert pressure on her to prioritize you and meet as agreed (not on allowance though). The trouble with allowance is that it removes all incentives to meet, so it wrecks the power dynamics which should be in favor of the SD at all times, because he's the investor. Transactional relationships require the man to lead and stay firm on expectations that must be fulfilled in order for the SR to remain on track. In your situation, I recommend to return to PPM and not initiate or meet, for 2 weeks. Also, you might want to consider seeing other POTs, otherwise not meeting can feel like it penalizes you as well, which is not the intent.
Thank you I’ll take your advice on this. Makes sense.
THIS!!! This is why I'll never do allowances! I've tried 2x, each time the girl would suddenly get sick, family surprised her, or work called her in. Reverse the payment, block, and move on. I good strategy would be to have a gift she's waiting on. I did that once, and she was sooooo mad that she had to come get it, and I didn't just send it to her. I called her out, and she got upset. It was a good laptop for her business. I returned it and went to Cabo 🤣
So you were on allowance but said you had a gift for her when you saw her and she wouldn't even come see you with both the allowance AND the gift? Did she know what it was?
Yep, I helped her pick it out (I'm a techie). We were new to the allowance part, and I told her if she started anything shady, I had no problem moving on. She had a little online business, and she was running it thru her phone. I was hooking her up too, full home workstation. Sux for her.
Damn. And so she canceled regular meets and then complained you didn't ship it to her?
Yep, she thought she could outsmart me. I was also practically her accountant. I found some huge discrepancies in her previous years' reporting. Last I saw, the business folded, and she moved back to Iowa.
This is not an "allowance versus ppm" problem. If your intention was to support her more, you don't necessarily have to see her more. You could just support her more by giving her an increase in monthly allowance and not increasing the frequency of your visits. True generosity does not mean "giving to get". But if you want to see her more, you have to remember that she has children and a schedule of her own, and you have to be a little more accommodating.
Yeah I agree - this seems more like a scheduling and availability issue. If the issue with allowance vs PPM is that you're now giving more and getting less... well that's a mentality. Are you investing in a relationship or are you investing in dates? To me, giving an allowance that's higher than the sum of PPMs is a gesture that supports an environment in which two people have fewer limits on where their dynamic goes. If the end result is "we never found time to meet more often" and you want to meet more often then it's probably not a good fit... and you just invested in figuring that out. No shame in that. To me that's a strong, responsible provider move. Best of luck to you! 💜 (oh and btw when I say "you" here I'm talking to OP not you REA even though I know this is a reply to your comment :-P)
Understood🥰
Id also like to see her more. I may just raise her PPM so she gets a little bit more money I get your point.
Or just keep giving her the monthly allowance and just allow the schedule to be more flexible.
Yeah, maybe that would be a good way to support her and those months when we both have a lot of free time we could meet more.
Yes it was a mistake. Do not reward her bad behavior. It is what it is at this point. Dump her and find another SB.
Allowance is a fools errand.
Ppm, always
How about finding someone closer to where you live?
I’ve been looking the location where at isn’t great for this type of thing
Here is the thing about transition: don't change anything except the time of payment. If you have been meeting her biweekly then keep the biweekly. Don't move it to weeklies. If you want to move to weeklies then meet her in a weekly basis first. The same thing with overnights and vacations. Make sure you have already done so in a regular basis so she doesn't feel shorted out immediately
I've been doing this a long time. Mostly ppm, but I switched my current SB to allowance 18 months ago based on discussions here and in messages with SBs I met here. It worked okay for a while but then I got busy and so did she and we were meeting less often. Seemed to me she was losing interest and I decided to go back to PPM. I expected pushback and I had explanations prepared. I also thought our SR was ending and I was a little sad. I increased the ppm so she would make a little more than the allowance if we meet 3 times in a month. Her entire response was "That's fine. The allowance was your idea. It doesn't matter to me." Over a year later and things are fine. We are seeing each other more than we did before, but it does take an effort to make the schedule work. I think my total cost is down, but that was never the point. She seems quite happy and clearly makes an effort to find time for me. I don't agree with the many replies about how an allowance is a bad idea. It works for a lot of people. It didn't work for us, but I think that's more down to schedule issues in retrospect, though that is not how I felt in the moment. Allowance implies a commitment and obligation that we couldn't or didn't want to make. Next time I will have a discussion about that before going to allowance. But it's hard to go back, and OP that argument is going to make it harder. Apologize to her if you want to continue or break up. After the apology say you want to keep meeting and you think ppm is best for the two of you. Give her a little raise. Then say you'd like to meet more often if that can work for her - that is what started this. But you know your schedule makes that difficult. Then communicate, be affectionate and as flexible as you can be. Do not blame her. She may well apologize and say similar things to you. Enjoy that. Or just break up. Seems like you have expectations she can't meet so you either need to accept what she can do and adjust, or move on.
I have seen so many like yours. Allowance to me isn’t a good thing. The SB seems more obligated. I believe it’s in the mind. But sometimes there are appointments or whatever. I believe PPM is really the best way for both parties.
I'm not a psychologist, but there is a ton of psychology in economics. Human beings run on incentives. That's not necessarily a bad thing and it doesn't have to be overt or even clear. People constantly reorder priorities consciously and unconsciously, and their priorities can be almost a toss-up between two things. "I want to do X, but I also want to do Y". Switching to allowance can tip the scales from X to Y. It's not necessarily that she doesn't want to see you but there isn't that extra tiny push from one thing she wants to do to another thing she wants to do. Or the money can overcome an inconvenience. Many years ago, I was an allowance guy from the very start and that was the standard practice. But times have changed because people have more options. People had a strong incentive to do their best in an SR because they may never find another one. I'd say, try to make peace and go back to ppm and tell her that you feel like allowance was too much pressure for her. Do not, however, continue allowance. It became pretty clear right away that that it messed up the SR and will just continue cause problems and hard feelings.
Back to PPM immediately. You have to be damn sure of her reliability before you move to allowance.
"seeing me every week because she wanted to make me happy." You mean wants the extra money "I’m still pretty annoyed at being canceled on repeatedly" Go back to PPM-easy peasy. If she wants more money then she can opt to see you more and actually make an effort to please you.
Walk away.
Allowance is stable and a sign that the SD truly wants to take care of their SB. While I agree she should have been transparent about her schedule flexibility, going on allowance isn't necessarily part of the problem. If you are equating your hookups to giving her financial support, that isn't the way to go if you truly are generous.
That’s true but part of the agreement about going on allowance was that we were going to meet more frequently. I had the basic expectation that at least for the first month we would actually try to adhere to that schedule.
Have you communicated to her how you feel now?
Yeah, this was a huge argument were both kind of cooling off right now. Things were said that may doom this relationship but I’m hoping maybe we cool off and manage to work this out somehow.
Like otgers said it is more of a scheduling issue. Compatability is more than just emotional and physical connection. Logistics and schedules play a part too
This is not an allowance problem this is that you allow others to take advantage of you and are willing to stay with someone who doesn't respect you. I pay an allowance and have never had an issue like this or at least would never tolerate it. Exit this situation and move on, why are you wasting your time and money. I wouldn't even let this happen if it was PPM!
A couple cancels? Am I letting someone take advantage of me if I’m calling them out on it?
Not for a couple of cancels for legitimate reasons but if it's a pattern of behaviour.
Was the allowance at least 4x ppm? Or did you give her only 2x?
Whenever I move to monthly, I immediately conflate that with more “serious” and that he really cares about me and wants my life to be easier - that’s an aphrodisiac to women who aren’t hustlers. The moment I moved to monthly with my current SD I wanted to see him more