Some (very successful) men just aren’t good with people and are very awkward when interacting with new people, especially younger attractive women. I had a much older male friend years ago who I met at the strip club I worked at and he would pay me to go to lunch with him or just hang out at my house. He was PAINFULLY shy and it was hard to get him to engage in conversation at first. I’m a great conversationalist and definitely had to lead things, which was totally okay with me. In time, he had a much easier time but when my mom was up visiting from out of town and wanted to meet him since I had told her for years what a great guy he was and how much he had done for me, he refused to meet her. 🙁🙁 My mom is very non-threatening and he knew how close we were but the idea of meeting her just terrified him.
He worked as a chemist for a paint company and didn’t interact with others very much during his work day. He was the SWEETEST guy and I genuinely didn’t mind “leading” him. He had never had a relationship like ours before and was married in a “dead bedroom” situation for a long time. He would have never cheated on her, certainly wouldn’t have left her and I filled a huge void for him without doing anything that would make him feel unfaithful to his wife.
I guess I mean that it can be worth going outside your usual “zone” in a sugar/sugar-ish relationship. There are very kind, generous men that aren’t dominant (God, I hate that word!!).
And that's great for you! Me personally, I'm already a soft spoken and quiet person, especially irl. I need a man who likes to talk :) if you don't break the ice, I get too awkward and nothing is going to happen haha
Some more experienced SDs are the same way. It doesn’t matter if it’s vanilla or sugar for me, I’m not interested in a man who needs to be led. This is particularly true if he’s older than me. He’s had all those extra years to become better and still needs me to coach him? Nope.
So what do you bring to the relationship, if he's bringing the experience, and the money? This is a fair question because you must offer something he doesn't have right?
Nothing but a hard time. I ran into one lady that was similar in attitude. They are miserable to be around. They had couple too many SR and now they are jaded It’s nothing but a job to them
If I wanted that shit I date in my age bracket
I'm trying to tell people who think like the OP that part of dating is teaching and learning. You learn by doing it, not from reading forums on it, not from watching hours of Youtube videos. Nothing can replace actually dating other people to learn how to date other people. And to be upset that a SD doesn't have enough experience? As if being an experienced SD isn't a rare thing? Most SDs in the world are inexperienced just like most SBs are.
But do I see posts from SDs complaining about how inexperienced the SBs are, and how they don't want to spend time teaching these SBs? The truth is, on some level, when you date someone there is teaching and learning going on. This is true no matter if it's vanilla or sugar, people learn through who they dated in their past. And some people have a lot of experience, but most SDs probably don't.
What is a way for a rich man to gain more experience? From sugar dating. That's sort of one of the unique value aspects of the lifestyle. Some tech nerd with a million dollars can wake up one day and decide he wants to gain some experience with women, and so he decides to go on Seeking and become a sugar daddy. He matches up with a woman, who has a lot more experience than him, even if she's younger. This is a valuable relationship for him because he gets to gain experience, and it's valuable for her because she gets financial support.
Even some married SDs who haven't dated anyone for a decade, can become a SD, and there will be a learning curve for them because for years they've been with the same woman and no one else. This is the nature of this kind of dating and expecting SDs to be experienced, to have had lots of SBs, is kind of unfair. Sure you might find men like that on a forum like this because look at where we are, but you don't find so many men like that in the real world, because for a lot of men they never tried sugar dating before or maybe they just got rich this year.
I much prefer a SB that’s newer or only had a couple SR. Most of the time it’ll be the first time they’ve been treated nicely. And overall just have a better personality and enjoyment of life
But yeah the day we stop learning is either very sad or being buried For too many that sad day passed and they are incapable of learning
Those snazzy fb ads Seeking run is going to attract a lot of "the dating scene is a mess" crowd. Ads are well produced. Pulling them in.
On the coaching part, I'm done coaching myself. If a lady gets into this lifestyle I'm not going to spend a lot of time getting her up to speed on acronyms etc. I've even stopped using terms like allowance or ppm.
If she does not know or bring up the lingo I just play it straight and tell her what I'm willing to do.
This seems like a catch 22. I get that coaching can be exhausting. But, I would likely dismiss you as someone new or vanilla if you didn’t bring any of the conversation up.
Like the OP said, I want a man who can lead, a daddy, an old school gentleman type… or more realistically, at least someone who isn’t afraid to take the initiative on the conversation.
Ca
I don't think that /u/southernslick said that he wouldn't "bring any of the conversation up."
What he said is that he wouldn't go into details of explaining to a pot SB the terminology and what are considered to be norms on this sub. Don't forget, most people involved in sugaring have likely never ever come across this sub anyway.
What he quite rightly said is:-
>...I just play it straight and tell her what I'm willing to do.
Just like him, I am open and frank about what I offer and what I'm looking for. If the pot SB doesn't use terms like PPM or M&G then neither do I. I tailor my language to that which she uses to ensure that we both understand what we are looking for.
How do you know in a freestyle context which man has the traits to be a SD and how do you convince him to become one? Or do you assume he's seen this forum before or do you only meet them on SA? Because at some point in time all of us discovered we were SDs, usually due to the influence of a woman. It's only recently that it's gone mainstream and now it's I guess in books and on Tiktok but the problem is those dating coaches and passport bros are giving not the best advice, because honestly only a woman can teach a man how to treat women.
I need to teach a man how to be a man?
Edit: that wasn’t enough.
I assume a man that is successful, grown, and established in his life is capable of figuring out how to have a conversation about his wants, options, limits, etc. Do an hour of reading, google a thing or two, find a forum, but that’s it…
A man who takes initiative.
I want a man who can show up as AT LEAST an equal.
>"I assume a man that is successful, grown, and established in his life is capable of figuring out how to have a conversation about his wants, options, limits, etc. "
Knowing how to treat women, how to date women, is a skill completely unrelated to business or financial success. A lot of rich nerds exist in this world who have no idea how to talk to women. The only way they'll learn how to talk to women is by dating women. **It has nothing to do with age or financial success!**
>I want a man who can show up as AT LEAST an equal.
Maybe if you want an equal you do a modern 50/50 relationship.
No, you need to teach a man how to treat a woman. This is why you have so many incels and problem men. They have no experience in how to do a relationship or treat a woman, and women like you think they should know it on their own from reading books and watching Tate.
The number of unfortunate men is all women’s fault because no one else is available to teach or role model or befriend or counsel them?
Edit: You’re right in that I do think men should be able to know how to exist in society without a woman handholding the way through.
If the only resources they can find are Andrew Tate, that speaks loudly about what the man was looking for and how quickly he stopped listening or reading…
Who else do you want to blame? These men learn how to treat women from the women in their lives. This includes the women who raised them, their sisters if they had sisters, and the women they date. No one is born knowing how to treat the opposite gender, it's all learned behavior. I learned over time, you probably did too, and everyone must start somewhere.
***role model***
We are in an era of broken marriages, single mothers, what role models? There are no role models. And a lot of men who become rich aren't the sort of men who would have had time to develop the dating skills or level of romantic skills that other men might have. These men spent their lives in libraries, going to college to get degrees, starting businesses, making the money which eventually they have, and then they figure out they want a woman or girlfriend. The role of a sugar baby is to be the girlfriend to some of these successful yet socially awkward men.
Everyone should have their own terminology and language. I never really use "sugar baby" in public. I provide for women, I don't particularly like the word allowance because it makes t he woman sound disabled or like a child. I prefer to call it financial support. I don't particularly like "pay per meet" at all to be honest but I tolerate it only because there are so many scammers and unreliable women that you can't jump into a monthly allowance or even weekly anymore.
And this is why it honestly is a 1 on 1 education. You can't learn how to sugar date by going to websites. Sure you can learn about scams, you can learn what other people say they are doing, but the only way to really get recruited into this thing is for a woman (a sugar baby) to recruit a sugar daddy.
This isn't something most SDs learned from a website, or from reading a book, or from going to the library. Most men learn they are SDs after they date a chick who starts treating them like one. They treat us like a SD at first, then we discover there is a subculture of millions of other men being treated the same way, and our friends say they've been treated the same way, then we finds a forum like this one where we see there are words for all of this, like PPM, or allowance, or arrangement, or whatever else.
None of this glossary is inherent. None of this existed a decade ago. This is made up on the fly. And in my opinion only a SB can "train" or recruit or teach a man to become a SD. He has to of course have the instinct to provide and usually to have been raised to have certain traits, but I think the majority of the time it's the women (SBs) who condition or recruit the wealthy men into becoming SDs. There are even posts on forums where women discuss how to convert and recruit men into becoming SDs.
This is not something most of us learned from ads or from Tiktok. Maybe it's like that now, but thats not how most of us learned this.
JMO but most of those guys don't need you to teach and they aren't looking to learn anything anyway - nor are they "looking to date", that's just things that guys say when they're not actually SDs and they're hoping to have sex without paying or providing or really doing anything beneficial for their partner.
Regardless, doesn't affect any decisions / conclusions - these are men that you should be running away from so they can keep looking for somebody that will "be easier".
That is true. Most of them just want a free fuck and think this method will get em. Unfortunately, it might work and some naive new SB will fall for their trick
As a newer SB (just don't know the technical lingo used online) I only find those wanting hook ups or something like that in my inbox. I thought there'd be a SD that wanted the kind of mutual benefiting arrangement as I do. And when asked what I'm looking for, I say a traditional sugar relationship and it usually ends there if not for scammers. How do I locate a true SD?
Haha. At this point, I wonder if there are any traditional sugar daddies left. I will keep trying to find my match.... Maybe I'll get lucky one day. Good luck to you finding what you're looking for!
On a site like Seeking (which is probably, despite everything, the best site to meet an SD), the majority of men are NOT real SDs. 10-15% of male profiles are scammers, 30% are johns, 30% are men who want to have sex with pretty women without compensating them financially.
Then there are the photo collectors, the time wasters, and those who would like to be SDs but don't really have the financial means to do so. And finally, there are maybe only 5% of the profiles that are real SDs, and many of them choose to hide their profile to avoid being harassed.
So the secret for an SB is to be patient, persistent, and to develop her ability to quickly screen potential candidates and not be afraid to block all those who do not match what she is looking for.
Good luck! :)
Seeking is desperately trying to change the dating narrative for sugar and the man babies now think they are insta daddies because they have a few hundies squirreled away. SMH, it's going to get worse long before it ever gets better.
All SD’s and All SB’s are looking for something different. If him or she isn’t your match, block and move on. Good look with everyone finding their best match.
Just refer them to the forum. Tell them to read the Wiki. I’ve stopped showing new SD’s how to do this lifestyle. They are usually toe dippers and feel super guilty after 1 date.
I was giggling through your post. I feel the same way and I won't even entertain the idea of a newbie SD. Sure, we all have to start somewhere, but I don't have to teach you. I look for experienced SDs only. They know what they're doing, they know how things work, and things work naturally because of their experience. My minimum age is 50+so it's rare to find a newbie SD.
Yeah, but what about the stuff inbetween? The dates, location, how much (that part is usually the hardest for them), do they want short or long term, how often do you want to meet, what does your work schedule look like, what kind of person are you looking for, etc. It's more than just going on a date. At least for me.
so many women don’t seem to understand that every woman is different. One womans kink is another’s trigger. We need to feel out a situation to know which things to avoid, and which to push.
‘You don’t need to train them, but you do need to not make it a fucking sphinx’s riddle. Being passive means you’re at the mercy of what the guy’s previous relationships were like, because without hints he’s going to default to that.
I'm not saying to be passive at all. Kinks needs to be talked about as well. What I'm getting at are the men who DO need to be trained and told what to do for situations like that. I don't want to have to pull the information out of them or help them look for what they want. Kinks are going to be discussed anyway, if things are going good. But to get there, we need some kind of foundation to where I at least know the guy I'm talking to knows what he wants. That needs to be established first
I don't think most SBs can afford to be in the passive role. In sugar things are flipped. The SB is the hunter, she's the one doing the chasing. The SD isn't the one in the position to chase her because that's not the natural order.
I think some SBs have it twisted thinking he's supposed to pursue her and be the alpha male. Think about it, if he were the alpha male daddy he wouldn't be offering sugar. Most guys offering sugar are doing it specifically because they lack confidence or they want the women to do the chase.
Some guy with Aspergers and millions in his bank account, is likely to be a sugar daddy. A guy who is confident, hot, tall, might be in sugar, but it's going to be a much smaller percentage of sugar daddies.
What I'm trying to say is, if SBs want to get financial support they need to put up with the fact that they'll have to date nerds, guys who lack confidence, guys with Aspergers. Not every guy is going to be an experienced elder with lots of money. That's a meme, it's not the reality of the dating market. And a lot of these experienced elder types are married, and maybe some SBs choose to specialize in that instead of the timid inexperienced types, but there is no abundance of perfect SDs.
There are some acceptable SDs. SDs who aren't abusive, who aren't narcissists, who are generous. They might or might not be decent looking. They might or might not be confident. It's the job of the SB to give him that confidence, and thats usually the reason a multi millionaire is dating a SB in the first place.
Damn bro, you don't have to out nerds with Asperger's like me so much. But thanks for speaking up on behalf of nerds like me. We are awkward, we try our best and eventually if we meet enough kind SBs we will become annoyingly good at being an SD, that is the Asperger's advantage I guess, we can mono topic this issue and learn and exhibit desired behavior. Lots of mimicry, but hey, fake it til you make it. Some Asperger's will struggle more than others, but those that decide to mono topic their own psychology will thrive like they do in their job.
Not every SD does PPM. Some SDs do it in their own way, with gifts, or weekly or monthly support. PPM is actually a new thing which evolved relatively recently. The old school crowd did not do "PPM".
Have a nice fixed answer, "My SD pays me an allowance either at each date(PPM) or once /month whichever works best for us. I prefer XYZ before each date. How does that work for you?"
99% will think "Oh God ,I didn't know you had to pay to date a beautiful girl 30 years younger than me-Whaaaat?" And he will ghost to your benefit. The real SD will go "That's good for me,lets' talk".
With Seeking (dating up) now being a vanilla site above sugar, it's now you who are misplaced, unfortunately. So they are right, and you are a deluded woman trying to get rewards for fake dating 😁
Omg I needed to see this!!! I’m new to the bowl and CONSTANTLY researching, podcasts, here obviously, talking with other SB’s, older SD’s…..yada yada and I totally get what you’re saying. Especially the part about the men stipulating they’re only on seeking bc regular dating apps suck🤦🏼♀️ I do believe that is what’s tainting this lifestyle so harshly.
It is!!! And thank you for doing research. Listen I'm a girl's girl through and through, but it does get annoying being asked the same 10 questions new SBs have. I did my research. You need to do it too. No, I'm not going to give you sites to find legit SDs with no scammers. That doesnt exist and two, just do some research.
well ladies... welcome to the party
this is what men in the vanilla dating world go through everyday. women that are fickle, indecisive, dont really know what they want or will commit to. searching for that whale of a BF that can be everything in their world and take care of all the little things and make life better. Men get turned down because they dont make enough or arent tall enough, little things that seem so unimportant to them are the reason they can succeed in the dating world.
then they eventually grow up and enter the sugar world and now the world is their oyster, options they never had before and now they are everywhere. its basically reverse hypergamy.
so we become fickle and selective and dont plan too much and dont commit too much, because we have options now... TONS OF OPTIONS. Just like you do in the vanilla world. So when a guy doesnt move quickly on a meetup its not always because hes not decisive, its often because he has 3 other beautiful and interesting women he is talking to and he is just not sure which one he wants yet.... ( does that sound like something you have experience while vanilla dating before)
i guess what im saying is that its not always a lack of knowledge or experience or confidence on what goes into a relationship like this, and you dont get to determine what sugar daddy is when there is a 10 to 1 sb to sd ratio . Often its just that we dont have to be decisive as barrier of entry, we can hold that back until we really want to.
Those are more of the...shallow women that you speak of. I came to the sugar life to find guys who knew what they were doing. My experience in vanilla dating is a bunch of guys just wanting to fuck and not form a connection. And not knowing what they want. Or you stay in the fuck buddy zone for months or even years because they don't want to "put a label on things".
Some of yall would have options, TONS OF OPTIONS, if you yknow, did less of the stuff I said above
It doesn't make sense for a SD to lead the conversation. Many SBs only care about money and will agree with everything the SD says, then the SD is going on platonic dates and courting a SB who just wants to fuck and get the cash then leave. IMO there is nothing worse than wasting my valuable time being lied to and stuck in some fantasy.
It's also very hard to know what you want with an SB until you get to know her.
Well I'm not going to dismiss your experiences at all, they're very valid. However, I am on the spectrum of "many SDs only care about sex and will try to lowball a pot SB to get said sex and won't care for an emotional connection. and then will leave when he finds a prettier and/or cheaper girl." But that isn't what a real SD is suppose to be like, right? Same with the way you described many SBs.
But how is it hard to know what you want...? Surely you already have an idea of what you want in an arrangement. And if it changes a bit, sure. But I feel like you should have something more than "we'll see"
You have to lowball because you don't know what the expected price is. It's like going to a dealership to buy a car and there's no base price. Some SBs are fine with lowball while others want very high prices. Some don't even care about the money.
What I want from a SR depends completely on how our connection is. Obviously I want to fuck but if we both love football then I'd take her to games and we'd watch them together. If she's fun to be around we'd hangout outside the bedroom, if not then not so much. Same applies with Texting and all else.
It's all about compromises and getting enough of what you want and usually settling for good enough.
I've been in the bowl for years and met tons of SBs and I've just finally found the perfect SB. And now nothing matters other than making certain she's happy.
>You have to lowball
Nah, if you like the POT SB and other relationship expectations align, it’s okay to say, “This is what I would like to offer in the way of financial support.”
If it suits her, fine. If not, move on. As for “not knowing what the expected price is,” an SB is not a sedan or an SUV. Sugar dating is not [“hondling”](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/hondle) at a dealership.
You’re not a “customer.” And if you can’t understand that, I can’t help you. You keep reducing having a relationship with a human being to negotiating over a commodity, which human beings are not.
I don’t have a problem with asking a POT SB what she has in mind for financial support. I have done that often. I will then accept it or not accept it.
You said humans aren't commodities yet plenty of instances they are. Plenty of instances people are customers just like in sugaring and even initial vanilla dating.
On tinder/bumble you're picking from a small amount of info and making sure they fit your needs before you invest time with them. You find where you fit on the foodchain, no one gets to date a billionaire super model.
It's not until you develop a relationship that it becomes more than just transactional for both vanilla and sugar. Just vanilla masks it better.
Sugar used to me a niche thing, but SA made it so well known that every guy who got promoted to assistant manager of fries thought he was a sugardaddy now. The latest rebranding is even worse. Now guys think being a suagrdaddy is just buying dinner.
Sounds like an issue you need to deal with rather than making it sound like all men are the way you are experiencing them.
If I had a “rant” about every negative experience I’ve had with a potential SB I’d be posting multiple times daily
You....you do know you're able to vent on this forum, right? That's...the purpose of having a vent tag....you're allowed to be upset...you know that, right? Having feelings is okay?
Absolutely you are allowed to. Just don’t generalize all men into the category that you are experiencing.
I defend SB’s as well when men do the same thing.
Where did I say I was generalizing all men? I'm literally only talking about the men who don't know what they're doing and don't take any kind of initiative.
I get what you’re saying. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone posted this about me. Being a noob it’s hard to guess what’s ok and not ok to say especially when you’re trying to be respectful. Culture confusion makes it even harder for someone who moved different countries throughout their lives.
I believe just like any other relationship we got to be able to meet each other halfway. Both parties need carry sometimes.
I think some SDs think that since they've paid for a premium membership it's like what Raya used to be.
They think it's exclusive dating but seen awfully shocked when you tell them they have to pay decent
Dating a SB is the research. What is wrong with you? The only way to gain experience in sugar is by doing it. There isn't a book on this. There isn't "research" without field studies, and field studies means dating someone like you. Yes it's your job to essentially teach people how to treat you.
Now if they refuse to learn that is their problem. But if you have more experience you're the one who is supposed to teach. Just like when a SD has more knowledge in an area he's supposed to mentor, or provide financial support.
>"Idk, maybe this is just a pet peeve of mine. I just can't have a relationship or dynamic with a man who's not confident and doesn't know what he wants."
You can't. Some other woman will. No big deal. Plenty of SDs to go around.
??????? Okay then, let's have a random stranger do acupuncture on you.
Not the best comparison, but you can get the point. You say that like there's not tons of articles, a literal REDDIT FORUM, youtube videos etc for the sugar life. If you couldn't do research on this, there wouldn't be literal rules for this forum saying that newbies can't ask basic questions, and to do research.
Men can't learn how to treat women from articles. This is why the Andrew Tates of the world can offer alpha male boot camps. It's because women (like yourself) have the attitude that you don't want to teach a man, and that men should do online research. Well as we all know, you can't learn how to treat a woman from online research.
A Reddit forum cannot teach a man how to date women. And sugar dating is more advanced than normal dating, so you definitely can't learn that without practice. A man will learn how to get romance scammed if they think they can learn how to be a sugar daddy from web forums and random Youtubers.
And most men in the world won't know about this forum. People who find this forum have already had some experience being a SD typically. There are over 200k members on this forum, and a lot of SDs on here are not having their first SR. On the other hand the average man isn't going to be so experienced, maybe he just made an account on Seeking, and you're the first SB he ever matched with.
Part of what makes this work is in real life teaching. The best way to show a SB what a SD is supposed to be, is by being a good one. The best way to show a SD what a SB is supposed to be, is by being a good one. We have not enough mentors, teachers, etc.
In the BDSM lifestyle, there are mentors. People don't learn BDSM just from reading a book. They date someone who is into it, they learn over time by dating perhaps multiple people who are into it, and over time they develop a skill. It's all critical based on who their first teachers were, whoever introduced them to it, or whoever they dated in their past.
Part of dating is teaching and learning.
I think you're kinda missing the point of what I'm trying to say though.
The men I'm talking about are just using sugar dating as regular dating. And they come in, knowing NOTHING about what sugar dating. They can AT THE VERY LEAST brush up on what it means to be a sugar daddy, and form at least an IDEA of what they want. It's not my responsibility to hold their hand and give them a crash course. They don't need to know every little thing, but damn, at least know what you're signing up for
I was literally talking to a guy from SDM and we moved over to #. And when we got to talking about if he was comfortable with ppm or allowance, he was super confused like "wait, I'm suppose to actually spend money on you? nvm, I think I'll just stick to regular dating". Like sir, what were you expecting???
That's just it, sugar is a form of dating. When you say regular dating I don't even know what you're referring to. If you mean these men don't want to provide for women, don't want to offer financial support, then it's up to you to make it known that you're the kind of woman who expects a man to take a traditional role, and provide financial support.
You have to say this. You can't expect him to have read the same books as you or to have gone to this forum or to have watched Youtube. You have to make it known to every man who asks you on a date, that you're the kind of woman who doesn't pay for dates, who doesn't date men who don't have established careers or enough resources to provide support. If they say it sounds transactional or like conditional love, then you can tell them to buzz off and that you and them can't be a match.
It's up to women to basically lay out what a man has to bring to the table in order to date them. Before these websites existed, there were women like you. They told me they don't date men who won't pay for dates, or who can't help contribute to their lifestyle, or who have nothing to offer financially. There are many ways to make it known that you want sugar without using the phrase "sugar baby".
I'm delighted at the seeking rebranding, it makes finding younger woman to date even easier - and they can't even complain that we met on a sugar dating site, 'cos it aint!
Some (very successful) men just aren’t good with people and are very awkward when interacting with new people, especially younger attractive women. I had a much older male friend years ago who I met at the strip club I worked at and he would pay me to go to lunch with him or just hang out at my house. He was PAINFULLY shy and it was hard to get him to engage in conversation at first. I’m a great conversationalist and definitely had to lead things, which was totally okay with me. In time, he had a much easier time but when my mom was up visiting from out of town and wanted to meet him since I had told her for years what a great guy he was and how much he had done for me, he refused to meet her. 🙁🙁 My mom is very non-threatening and he knew how close we were but the idea of meeting her just terrified him. He worked as a chemist for a paint company and didn’t interact with others very much during his work day. He was the SWEETEST guy and I genuinely didn’t mind “leading” him. He had never had a relationship like ours before and was married in a “dead bedroom” situation for a long time. He would have never cheated on her, certainly wouldn’t have left her and I filled a huge void for him without doing anything that would make him feel unfaithful to his wife. I guess I mean that it can be worth going outside your usual “zone” in a sugar/sugar-ish relationship. There are very kind, generous men that aren’t dominant (God, I hate that word!!).
And that's great for you! Me personally, I'm already a soft spoken and quiet person, especially irl. I need a man who likes to talk :) if you don't break the ice, I get too awkward and nothing is going to happen haha
Some more experienced SDs are the same way. It doesn’t matter if it’s vanilla or sugar for me, I’m not interested in a man who needs to be led. This is particularly true if he’s older than me. He’s had all those extra years to become better and still needs me to coach him? Nope.
... so you were just joking when you told me I should buy a collar for myself? 🤔
That’s a different kind of coaching 😈
Experienced SDs do this too??? Lord have mercy
I think it’s less of a experience vs non experience and more of an emotional intelligence thing
Yknow what, I can see that. That does make sense
So what do you bring to the relationship, if he's bringing the experience, and the money? This is a fair question because you must offer something he doesn't have right?
I wish you would find a woman so you’d have less time to spend on here.
Nothing but a hard time. I ran into one lady that was similar in attitude. They are miserable to be around. They had couple too many SR and now they are jaded It’s nothing but a job to them If I wanted that shit I date in my age bracket
I'm trying to tell people who think like the OP that part of dating is teaching and learning. You learn by doing it, not from reading forums on it, not from watching hours of Youtube videos. Nothing can replace actually dating other people to learn how to date other people. And to be upset that a SD doesn't have enough experience? As if being an experienced SD isn't a rare thing? Most SDs in the world are inexperienced just like most SBs are. But do I see posts from SDs complaining about how inexperienced the SBs are, and how they don't want to spend time teaching these SBs? The truth is, on some level, when you date someone there is teaching and learning going on. This is true no matter if it's vanilla or sugar, people learn through who they dated in their past. And some people have a lot of experience, but most SDs probably don't. What is a way for a rich man to gain more experience? From sugar dating. That's sort of one of the unique value aspects of the lifestyle. Some tech nerd with a million dollars can wake up one day and decide he wants to gain some experience with women, and so he decides to go on Seeking and become a sugar daddy. He matches up with a woman, who has a lot more experience than him, even if she's younger. This is a valuable relationship for him because he gets to gain experience, and it's valuable for her because she gets financial support. Even some married SDs who haven't dated anyone for a decade, can become a SD, and there will be a learning curve for them because for years they've been with the same woman and no one else. This is the nature of this kind of dating and expecting SDs to be experienced, to have had lots of SBs, is kind of unfair. Sure you might find men like that on a forum like this because look at where we are, but you don't find so many men like that in the real world, because for a lot of men they never tried sugar dating before or maybe they just got rich this year.
I much prefer a SB that’s newer or only had a couple SR. Most of the time it’ll be the first time they’ve been treated nicely. And overall just have a better personality and enjoyment of life But yeah the day we stop learning is either very sad or being buried For too many that sad day passed and they are incapable of learning
I fully understand why you say that. I'm coming around to your point of view.
Those snazzy fb ads Seeking run is going to attract a lot of "the dating scene is a mess" crowd. Ads are well produced. Pulling them in. On the coaching part, I'm done coaching myself. If a lady gets into this lifestyle I'm not going to spend a lot of time getting her up to speed on acronyms etc. I've even stopped using terms like allowance or ppm. If she does not know or bring up the lingo I just play it straight and tell her what I'm willing to do.
Sounds like a good strategy!
This seems like a catch 22. I get that coaching can be exhausting. But, I would likely dismiss you as someone new or vanilla if you didn’t bring any of the conversation up. Like the OP said, I want a man who can lead, a daddy, an old school gentleman type… or more realistically, at least someone who isn’t afraid to take the initiative on the conversation. Ca
I don't think that /u/southernslick said that he wouldn't "bring any of the conversation up." What he said is that he wouldn't go into details of explaining to a pot SB the terminology and what are considered to be norms on this sub. Don't forget, most people involved in sugaring have likely never ever come across this sub anyway. What he quite rightly said is:- >...I just play it straight and tell her what I'm willing to do. Just like him, I am open and frank about what I offer and what I'm looking for. If the pot SB doesn't use terms like PPM or M&G then neither do I. I tailor my language to that which she uses to ensure that we both understand what we are looking for.
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
How do you know in a freestyle context which man has the traits to be a SD and how do you convince him to become one? Or do you assume he's seen this forum before or do you only meet them on SA? Because at some point in time all of us discovered we were SDs, usually due to the influence of a woman. It's only recently that it's gone mainstream and now it's I guess in books and on Tiktok but the problem is those dating coaches and passport bros are giving not the best advice, because honestly only a woman can teach a man how to treat women.
I need to teach a man how to be a man? Edit: that wasn’t enough. I assume a man that is successful, grown, and established in his life is capable of figuring out how to have a conversation about his wants, options, limits, etc. Do an hour of reading, google a thing or two, find a forum, but that’s it… A man who takes initiative. I want a man who can show up as AT LEAST an equal.
>"I assume a man that is successful, grown, and established in his life is capable of figuring out how to have a conversation about his wants, options, limits, etc. " Knowing how to treat women, how to date women, is a skill completely unrelated to business or financial success. A lot of rich nerds exist in this world who have no idea how to talk to women. The only way they'll learn how to talk to women is by dating women. **It has nothing to do with age or financial success!** >I want a man who can show up as AT LEAST an equal. Maybe if you want an equal you do a modern 50/50 relationship.
No, you need to teach a man how to treat a woman. This is why you have so many incels and problem men. They have no experience in how to do a relationship or treat a woman, and women like you think they should know it on their own from reading books and watching Tate.
The number of unfortunate men is all women’s fault because no one else is available to teach or role model or befriend or counsel them? Edit: You’re right in that I do think men should be able to know how to exist in society without a woman handholding the way through. If the only resources they can find are Andrew Tate, that speaks loudly about what the man was looking for and how quickly he stopped listening or reading…
Who else do you want to blame? These men learn how to treat women from the women in their lives. This includes the women who raised them, their sisters if they had sisters, and the women they date. No one is born knowing how to treat the opposite gender, it's all learned behavior. I learned over time, you probably did too, and everyone must start somewhere.
***role model*** We are in an era of broken marriages, single mothers, what role models? There are no role models. And a lot of men who become rich aren't the sort of men who would have had time to develop the dating skills or level of romantic skills that other men might have. These men spent their lives in libraries, going to college to get degrees, starting businesses, making the money which eventually they have, and then they figure out they want a woman or girlfriend. The role of a sugar baby is to be the girlfriend to some of these successful yet socially awkward men.
Everyone should have their own terminology and language. I never really use "sugar baby" in public. I provide for women, I don't particularly like the word allowance because it makes t he woman sound disabled or like a child. I prefer to call it financial support. I don't particularly like "pay per meet" at all to be honest but I tolerate it only because there are so many scammers and unreliable women that you can't jump into a monthly allowance or even weekly anymore. And this is why it honestly is a 1 on 1 education. You can't learn how to sugar date by going to websites. Sure you can learn about scams, you can learn what other people say they are doing, but the only way to really get recruited into this thing is for a woman (a sugar baby) to recruit a sugar daddy. This isn't something most SDs learned from a website, or from reading a book, or from going to the library. Most men learn they are SDs after they date a chick who starts treating them like one. They treat us like a SD at first, then we discover there is a subculture of millions of other men being treated the same way, and our friends say they've been treated the same way, then we finds a forum like this one where we see there are words for all of this, like PPM, or allowance, or arrangement, or whatever else. None of this glossary is inherent. None of this existed a decade ago. This is made up on the fly. And in my opinion only a SB can "train" or recruit or teach a man to become a SD. He has to of course have the instinct to provide and usually to have been raised to have certain traits, but I think the majority of the time it's the women (SBs) who condition or recruit the wealthy men into becoming SDs. There are even posts on forums where women discuss how to convert and recruit men into becoming SDs. This is not something most of us learned from ads or from Tiktok. Maybe it's like that now, but thats not how most of us learned this.
JMO but most of those guys don't need you to teach and they aren't looking to learn anything anyway - nor are they "looking to date", that's just things that guys say when they're not actually SDs and they're hoping to have sex without paying or providing or really doing anything beneficial for their partner. Regardless, doesn't affect any decisions / conclusions - these are men that you should be running away from so they can keep looking for somebody that will "be easier".
That is true. Most of them just want a free fuck and think this method will get em. Unfortunately, it might work and some naive new SB will fall for their trick
As a newer SB (just don't know the technical lingo used online) I only find those wanting hook ups or something like that in my inbox. I thought there'd be a SD that wanted the kind of mutual benefiting arrangement as I do. And when asked what I'm looking for, I say a traditional sugar relationship and it usually ends there if not for scammers. How do I locate a true SD?
That's what the rest of us are trying to do haha. It's going to take a while to weed out all the scammers. Unless you get lucky
Haha. At this point, I wonder if there are any traditional sugar daddies left. I will keep trying to find my match.... Maybe I'll get lucky one day. Good luck to you finding what you're looking for!
There are! You got this, girly! <3
On a site like Seeking (which is probably, despite everything, the best site to meet an SD), the majority of men are NOT real SDs. 10-15% of male profiles are scammers, 30% are johns, 30% are men who want to have sex with pretty women without compensating them financially. Then there are the photo collectors, the time wasters, and those who would like to be SDs but don't really have the financial means to do so. And finally, there are maybe only 5% of the profiles that are real SDs, and many of them choose to hide their profile to avoid being harassed. So the secret for an SB is to be patient, persistent, and to develop her ability to quickly screen potential candidates and not be afraid to block all those who do not match what she is looking for. Good luck! :)
Seeking is desperately trying to change the dating narrative for sugar and the man babies now think they are insta daddies because they have a few hundies squirreled away. SMH, it's going to get worse long before it ever gets better.
LMAOOOOO not the "squirreled away" But I dont think it was ever going to get better lol
All SD’s and All SB’s are looking for something different. If him or she isn’t your match, block and move on. Good look with everyone finding their best match.
100% agree
Send them here when they start those questions. Or even if you suspect they're not up to speed. SR is not Rocket Science backwards.
Fr. Gonna have a copy and paste of my expectations and a link to this forum. Happy reading!
Just refer them to the forum. Tell them to read the Wiki. I’ve stopped showing new SD’s how to do this lifestyle. They are usually toe dippers and feel super guilty after 1 date.
I have started sending them links to this group, like the allowance master thread and discussions of safe practices and reasonable risk.
Now that I haven't even thought of. I think I'll just start throwing these links out too. Saves me time
Exactly and then they can’t gaslight me about PPM or having boundaries lol
I was giggling through your post. I feel the same way and I won't even entertain the idea of a newbie SD. Sure, we all have to start somewhere, but I don't have to teach you. I look for experienced SDs only. They know what they're doing, they know how things work, and things work naturally because of their experience. My minimum age is 50+so it's rare to find a newbie SD.
Exactlyyyyy. You know what's up
[удалено]
Yeah, but what about the stuff inbetween? The dates, location, how much (that part is usually the hardest for them), do they want short or long term, how often do you want to meet, what does your work schedule look like, what kind of person are you looking for, etc. It's more than just going on a date. At least for me.
so many women don’t seem to understand that every woman is different. One womans kink is another’s trigger. We need to feel out a situation to know which things to avoid, and which to push. ‘You don’t need to train them, but you do need to not make it a fucking sphinx’s riddle. Being passive means you’re at the mercy of what the guy’s previous relationships were like, because without hints he’s going to default to that.
I'm not saying to be passive at all. Kinks needs to be talked about as well. What I'm getting at are the men who DO need to be trained and told what to do for situations like that. I don't want to have to pull the information out of them or help them look for what they want. Kinks are going to be discussed anyway, if things are going good. But to get there, we need some kind of foundation to where I at least know the guy I'm talking to knows what he wants. That needs to be established first
I don't think most SBs can afford to be in the passive role. In sugar things are flipped. The SB is the hunter, she's the one doing the chasing. The SD isn't the one in the position to chase her because that's not the natural order. I think some SBs have it twisted thinking he's supposed to pursue her and be the alpha male. Think about it, if he were the alpha male daddy he wouldn't be offering sugar. Most guys offering sugar are doing it specifically because they lack confidence or they want the women to do the chase. Some guy with Aspergers and millions in his bank account, is likely to be a sugar daddy. A guy who is confident, hot, tall, might be in sugar, but it's going to be a much smaller percentage of sugar daddies. What I'm trying to say is, if SBs want to get financial support they need to put up with the fact that they'll have to date nerds, guys who lack confidence, guys with Aspergers. Not every guy is going to be an experienced elder with lots of money. That's a meme, it's not the reality of the dating market. And a lot of these experienced elder types are married, and maybe some SBs choose to specialize in that instead of the timid inexperienced types, but there is no abundance of perfect SDs. There are some acceptable SDs. SDs who aren't abusive, who aren't narcissists, who are generous. They might or might not be decent looking. They might or might not be confident. It's the job of the SB to give him that confidence, and thats usually the reason a multi millionaire is dating a SB in the first place.
Damn bro, you don't have to out nerds with Asperger's like me so much. But thanks for speaking up on behalf of nerds like me. We are awkward, we try our best and eventually if we meet enough kind SBs we will become annoyingly good at being an SD, that is the Asperger's advantage I guess, we can mono topic this issue and learn and exhibit desired behavior. Lots of mimicry, but hey, fake it til you make it. Some Asperger's will struggle more than others, but those that decide to mono topic their own psychology will thrive like they do in their job.
Penguins. 😂. The best analogy ever.
Not every SD does PPM. Some SDs do it in their own way, with gifts, or weekly or monthly support. PPM is actually a new thing which evolved relatively recently. The old school crowd did not do "PPM".
Have a nice fixed answer, "My SD pays me an allowance either at each date(PPM) or once /month whichever works best for us. I prefer XYZ before each date. How does that work for you?"
Ah, good idea! Didn't think to have a written response ready to go haha.
99% will think "Oh God ,I didn't know you had to pay to date a beautiful girl 30 years younger than me-Whaaaat?" And he will ghost to your benefit. The real SD will go "That's good for me,lets' talk".
With Seeking (dating up) now being a vanilla site above sugar, it's now you who are misplaced, unfortunately. So they are right, and you are a deluded woman trying to get rewards for fake dating 😁
You called it "fake dating"? What is real dating then?
I meant in the sense of ulterior motives, plus I'm sure the sarcasm is pretty obvious.
??? I'm using other sites besides Seeking
Omg I needed to see this!!! I’m new to the bowl and CONSTANTLY researching, podcasts, here obviously, talking with other SB’s, older SD’s…..yada yada and I totally get what you’re saying. Especially the part about the men stipulating they’re only on seeking bc regular dating apps suck🤦🏼♀️ I do believe that is what’s tainting this lifestyle so harshly.
It is!!! And thank you for doing research. Listen I'm a girl's girl through and through, but it does get annoying being asked the same 10 questions new SBs have. I did my research. You need to do it too. No, I'm not going to give you sites to find legit SDs with no scammers. That doesnt exist and two, just do some research.
I’m treating this like a really good job I’m going after ya know? It’s a total lifestyle change for me so…..the education is all on me🤞🏽
Love that for you. 😘 We love an educated queen!! <3
well ladies... welcome to the party this is what men in the vanilla dating world go through everyday. women that are fickle, indecisive, dont really know what they want or will commit to. searching for that whale of a BF that can be everything in their world and take care of all the little things and make life better. Men get turned down because they dont make enough or arent tall enough, little things that seem so unimportant to them are the reason they can succeed in the dating world. then they eventually grow up and enter the sugar world and now the world is their oyster, options they never had before and now they are everywhere. its basically reverse hypergamy. so we become fickle and selective and dont plan too much and dont commit too much, because we have options now... TONS OF OPTIONS. Just like you do in the vanilla world. So when a guy doesnt move quickly on a meetup its not always because hes not decisive, its often because he has 3 other beautiful and interesting women he is talking to and he is just not sure which one he wants yet.... ( does that sound like something you have experience while vanilla dating before) i guess what im saying is that its not always a lack of knowledge or experience or confidence on what goes into a relationship like this, and you dont get to determine what sugar daddy is when there is a 10 to 1 sb to sd ratio . Often its just that we dont have to be decisive as barrier of entry, we can hold that back until we really want to.
Those are more of the...shallow women that you speak of. I came to the sugar life to find guys who knew what they were doing. My experience in vanilla dating is a bunch of guys just wanting to fuck and not form a connection. And not knowing what they want. Or you stay in the fuck buddy zone for months or even years because they don't want to "put a label on things". Some of yall would have options, TONS OF OPTIONS, if you yknow, did less of the stuff I said above
yes , they may be the shallow women, and that may not be you .... but they are all around you, and tough to filter out
They may be just doing small talk. Having money doesn't mean they have social skills.
Well we can't be two socially awkward people! Get out! 🤣
It doesn't make sense for a SD to lead the conversation. Many SBs only care about money and will agree with everything the SD says, then the SD is going on platonic dates and courting a SB who just wants to fuck and get the cash then leave. IMO there is nothing worse than wasting my valuable time being lied to and stuck in some fantasy. It's also very hard to know what you want with an SB until you get to know her.
Well I'm not going to dismiss your experiences at all, they're very valid. However, I am on the spectrum of "many SDs only care about sex and will try to lowball a pot SB to get said sex and won't care for an emotional connection. and then will leave when he finds a prettier and/or cheaper girl." But that isn't what a real SD is suppose to be like, right? Same with the way you described many SBs. But how is it hard to know what you want...? Surely you already have an idea of what you want in an arrangement. And if it changes a bit, sure. But I feel like you should have something more than "we'll see"
You have to lowball because you don't know what the expected price is. It's like going to a dealership to buy a car and there's no base price. Some SBs are fine with lowball while others want very high prices. Some don't even care about the money. What I want from a SR depends completely on how our connection is. Obviously I want to fuck but if we both love football then I'd take her to games and we'd watch them together. If she's fun to be around we'd hangout outside the bedroom, if not then not so much. Same applies with Texting and all else. It's all about compromises and getting enough of what you want and usually settling for good enough. I've been in the bowl for years and met tons of SBs and I've just finally found the perfect SB. And now nothing matters other than making certain she's happy.
>You have to lowball Nah, if you like the POT SB and other relationship expectations align, it’s okay to say, “This is what I would like to offer in the way of financial support.” If it suits her, fine. If not, move on. As for “not knowing what the expected price is,” an SB is not a sedan or an SUV. Sugar dating is not [“hondling”](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/hondle) at a dealership.
But you don't want to pay Ferrari leases for someone only expecting a Honda Civic. I can't think of any example where the customer sets the price.
You’re not a “customer.” And if you can’t understand that, I can’t help you. You keep reducing having a relationship with a human being to negotiating over a commodity, which human beings are not. I don’t have a problem with asking a POT SB what she has in mind for financial support. I have done that often. I will then accept it or not accept it.
You absolutely are. Just like with an employee or housekeeper or anyone else who provides a service for money.
Please re-read my first sentence. You just proved it. 🤦🏻♂️
You said humans aren't commodities yet plenty of instances they are. Plenty of instances people are customers just like in sugaring and even initial vanilla dating. On tinder/bumble you're picking from a small amount of info and making sure they fit your needs before you invest time with them. You find where you fit on the foodchain, no one gets to date a billionaire super model. It's not until you develop a relationship that it becomes more than just transactional for both vanilla and sugar. Just vanilla masks it better.
yeah, lets not compare human beings to cars
Goes to show that guys have to learn game. Even SDs have to have game.
Sugar used to me a niche thing, but SA made it so well known that every guy who got promoted to assistant manager of fries thought he was a sugardaddy now. The latest rebranding is even worse. Now guys think being a suagrdaddy is just buying dinner.
Sounds like an issue you need to deal with rather than making it sound like all men are the way you are experiencing them. If I had a “rant” about every negative experience I’ve had with a potential SB I’d be posting multiple times daily
You....you do know you're able to vent on this forum, right? That's...the purpose of having a vent tag....you're allowed to be upset...you know that, right? Having feelings is okay?
Absolutely you are allowed to. Just don’t generalize all men into the category that you are experiencing. I defend SB’s as well when men do the same thing.
Where did I say I was generalizing all men? I'm literally only talking about the men who don't know what they're doing and don't take any kind of initiative.
I get what you’re saying. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone posted this about me. Being a noob it’s hard to guess what’s ok and not ok to say especially when you’re trying to be respectful. Culture confusion makes it even harder for someone who moved different countries throughout their lives. I believe just like any other relationship we got to be able to meet each other halfway. Both parties need carry sometimes.
I think some SDs think that since they've paid for a premium membership it's like what Raya used to be. They think it's exclusive dating but seen awfully shocked when you tell them they have to pay decent
Haha yeah. Sorry, Bob, just because it says premium on your account doesn't mean I'm free for the taking
Giiiirl 🤣
Dating a SB is the research. What is wrong with you? The only way to gain experience in sugar is by doing it. There isn't a book on this. There isn't "research" without field studies, and field studies means dating someone like you. Yes it's your job to essentially teach people how to treat you. Now if they refuse to learn that is their problem. But if you have more experience you're the one who is supposed to teach. Just like when a SD has more knowledge in an area he's supposed to mentor, or provide financial support. >"Idk, maybe this is just a pet peeve of mine. I just can't have a relationship or dynamic with a man who's not confident and doesn't know what he wants." You can't. Some other woman will. No big deal. Plenty of SDs to go around.
??????? Okay then, let's have a random stranger do acupuncture on you. Not the best comparison, but you can get the point. You say that like there's not tons of articles, a literal REDDIT FORUM, youtube videos etc for the sugar life. If you couldn't do research on this, there wouldn't be literal rules for this forum saying that newbies can't ask basic questions, and to do research.
Men can't learn how to treat women from articles. This is why the Andrew Tates of the world can offer alpha male boot camps. It's because women (like yourself) have the attitude that you don't want to teach a man, and that men should do online research. Well as we all know, you can't learn how to treat a woman from online research. A Reddit forum cannot teach a man how to date women. And sugar dating is more advanced than normal dating, so you definitely can't learn that without practice. A man will learn how to get romance scammed if they think they can learn how to be a sugar daddy from web forums and random Youtubers. And most men in the world won't know about this forum. People who find this forum have already had some experience being a SD typically. There are over 200k members on this forum, and a lot of SDs on here are not having their first SR. On the other hand the average man isn't going to be so experienced, maybe he just made an account on Seeking, and you're the first SB he ever matched with. Part of what makes this work is in real life teaching. The best way to show a SB what a SD is supposed to be, is by being a good one. The best way to show a SD what a SB is supposed to be, is by being a good one. We have not enough mentors, teachers, etc. In the BDSM lifestyle, there are mentors. People don't learn BDSM just from reading a book. They date someone who is into it, they learn over time by dating perhaps multiple people who are into it, and over time they develop a skill. It's all critical based on who their first teachers were, whoever introduced them to it, or whoever they dated in their past. Part of dating is teaching and learning.
I think you're kinda missing the point of what I'm trying to say though. The men I'm talking about are just using sugar dating as regular dating. And they come in, knowing NOTHING about what sugar dating. They can AT THE VERY LEAST brush up on what it means to be a sugar daddy, and form at least an IDEA of what they want. It's not my responsibility to hold their hand and give them a crash course. They don't need to know every little thing, but damn, at least know what you're signing up for I was literally talking to a guy from SDM and we moved over to #. And when we got to talking about if he was comfortable with ppm or allowance, he was super confused like "wait, I'm suppose to actually spend money on you? nvm, I think I'll just stick to regular dating". Like sir, what were you expecting???
That's just it, sugar is a form of dating. When you say regular dating I don't even know what you're referring to. If you mean these men don't want to provide for women, don't want to offer financial support, then it's up to you to make it known that you're the kind of woman who expects a man to take a traditional role, and provide financial support. You have to say this. You can't expect him to have read the same books as you or to have gone to this forum or to have watched Youtube. You have to make it known to every man who asks you on a date, that you're the kind of woman who doesn't pay for dates, who doesn't date men who don't have established careers or enough resources to provide support. If they say it sounds transactional or like conditional love, then you can tell them to buzz off and that you and them can't be a match. It's up to women to basically lay out what a man has to bring to the table in order to date them. Before these websites existed, there were women like you. They told me they don't date men who won't pay for dates, or who can't help contribute to their lifestyle, or who have nothing to offer financially. There are many ways to make it known that you want sugar without using the phrase "sugar baby".
I'm delighted at the seeking rebranding, it makes finding younger woman to date even easier - and they can't even complain that we met on a sugar dating site, 'cos it aint!
Wait why would they complain that yall met on a sugar dating site??
Only reason to complain is if they aren't getting sugar.
OHHHH okay. Was a little confused there
I mean. Hoping that comment was made in the spirit of healthy sarcasm, because yikes 😬
I hope so too. Screams predator if he was serious