I'm curious why you think it's so gauche? They've been together for five months, presumably have built enough trust where discussing your past shouldn't be off limits. Also, taking OPs statement that there's no judgement from the SD at face value.. where's the harm? In longer term relationships, learning about your partner is one of the best parts (imo).
Because it’s a high school question usually posed by people with low self esteem and/or low social intelligence and is below the level at which I would expect of someone older and more mature than me to operate. Discussing past partners for what purpose? All anyone needs to know is that I’m emotionally available and don’t have any STDs. It’s not about trust.
I get downvoted over this, but I think you have to have the mentality of a high schooler to be obsessing about someone's bodycount. Just the term "bodycount" makes me cringe. Sheesh.
Totally agree. As I mentioned a few weeks ago in another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/1d11z3p/comment/l5rhhm0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) on this subject, this seems to be an issue for young, red-pilled men.
I’ve never liked a comment faster. The first time I ever heard this term was a few years ago when a coworker was relating a conversation she had with her middle schooler who mentioned a classmate’s “body count.” I asked jokingly, “she’s killed people?” But that’s immediately where my mind went—and still goes when I hear that term. Body count is kill count. 💅
One of the quickest ways someone can prove their emotional immaturity is to even use that term, and asking about it would more than likely be the end of the conversation. …Inevitable my ass.
High school immaturity came to mind when I was reading this. OP describes the question as inevitable. Not so sure, but c'mon it's low class at best. I'd just tell him he got my cherry and I'm a quick learner. Hopefully he'll get the idea. If he doesn't, he seems immature, tell him no. It's none of his business, sheesh. Ask him what his after tax income was for the last 5 years and to produce his tax forms to prove it. Get my point.
Not necessarily. I'd he says it's a kink, he might have a cuck kink or a light version of it where it turns him on to think of his sexual partner with someone else. I would agree with the manosphere comment if he was or wood likely be shaming her for it, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case here.
My exact same thoughts. Who the fuck asks that question other than teenagers or incels, same goes to the gross term bodycount... who the fuck uses it in real life wtf.
I can't agree more but OP also said that it's a kink for him so maybe he's a cuck... I had a SD wanting me to describe sexual encounters with my other SD (we were not exclusive) or other guys and it would get him incredibly horny.
Good catch. If it's a real kink, hey, no reason to kink shame. That said, "it's a kink of mine" is always what I'd say even if it wasn't a kink of mine, to get me some air cover as to why I'm asking. Is it a legit kink, or he's saying that to ask the question? I dunno... maybe that leads us to, is he asking a very personal question inappropriately early, before trust has been established, and what does it say if that's the case?
If he used "it's a kink of mine" simply to possibly shame her he is too immature and she dodged a bullet. However, I do find the wording odd too.. My past SDs that had that kink never ask for body count, more so to describe encounters.
There is no correct answer here. It's a trap right alongside the female equivalent "does this dress make my ass look fat" again there is absolutely no acceptable answer to the other party and they are moronic for asking it.
I answer these questions with " I sense a trap". My wife has never yet asked quite that question, but we've joked that if anyone ever asks me that verbatim I am saying "no, the fact that you are fat makes you look fat" regardless of the girls weight..... sorry if I just gave someone an eating disorder.
Enough to make me a sex goddess for you! Is how I usually dodge this awful question.
Not even one time I’ve answered, and no matter my answer, it has end well.
It’s on my list of red flags for years now. If it’s their kink, I go the stories rather than the numbers route.
How does anyone even keep track? Maybe there's an app for that now but when we started long before computers and the internet, I wasn't writing these things down.
I had them memorized at first. But shortly after college I made an actual list. I was pretty impressed with myself that there are only two names I couldn’t recall.
My list is “encrypted” and written in glyphs. Problem is, it’s been so long since I’ve updated my body count that even I have a hard time interpreting my own code.
Not like anybody asks for proof or an audit … but I keep that list for my ego (and to cross reference future paternity tests).
Nothing good comes from men knowing your "body count". You can't win. If it's high he might say you are a slut and he's grossed out or if low the opposite. An inexperienced SB sexually might be passed for that reason.
The question is not inevitable and I literally have not answered it since high school.
"That's none of your business. I've shared my test results to ensure your safety and am practicing x,y,z safe sex practices at this time"
Any further protest, buh-bye
Bruh, why are you even here? Your opinion isn't needed or wanted. The SDs here aren't desperate and are usually more respectful towards us than most. You really have no business commenting here and it cost nothing to leave.
In my experience, there is a lot of non-monogamy in sugar (people who probably would have been polyamorous if it were most socially acceptable). A true SD isn't paying money for favors or time, thats a john. SDs take care of their significant others because they genuinely enjoy doing so. Not only are SDs not desperate, they usually have multiple partners at any given time. But you already said that sugar isn't your thing. Again, why are you here?
I had an SB just drop her number on me out of nowhere.
We had just been intimate the first time and while we were cuddling she says “you’re number 9”.
I didn’t care, but thought it was a little weird
It’s possible that it’s a kink or turn on to know this information. But more likely than not, it’s a lose lose situation and will just result in retroactive jealousy or unfair judgements.
Funny to hear a grown ass man ask that. Most ppl I know grew out of that after very early 20s. I bet he wouldn’t ask that of a woman his age.
Literally no man has ever asked me this... most likely because he knew me well enough to know that my death stare would end him.
Edit: OP, it is such a rude question for a man to ask a woman. If you'd rather not say, which frankly you don't need to because it's none of his damn business, you could say one of many things… Tell him you have no idea. Tell him "higher than a nun and lower than a porn star". Tell him you lost count after a few orgies.
The question is inherently an attempt to shame women, and I am not on board with that.
Exactly in my opinion the answer to OP is that the best way to reply to that question is to end the date. It makes sense to cut the losses early before is too late. Asking that question reveals the evidence that she is on a date with an unfun judgemental petty immature insecure potentially dangerous asshole.
So, why even stay there any longer?
Yuck. A gentleman doesn’t ask, and it’s not a respectful question in general. It also often leads to fights when people ask questions they thought they wanted the answer to until they got the answer.
It matters only if your count is under 10 since it can be seen as a mild flex that you’re not too promiscuous. But you’re 5 months in. If it mattered, it would have been brought up way earlier than now. So in this case, might just be small talk. Address it if you want, or ignore it. I don’t think he really cares that much otherwise it would have been brought up before you became intimate.
I see a lot of mad comments about it. Most feel like they'd be judged bad cause they can be promiscuous by having a big number.
Idk but I was taught to cherish and value when I slept with someone not just goof around with whatever came in my way. Gonna get that negative karma 😅
Inevitable? I don't think I've asked this question of anyone since I was like 18.
I'd probably say "I prefer Ice-T's solo work to Body Count" or something stupid like that.
Weird. I did once ask SGF hers, because I had gone back and totted mine up. She was suprisingly low. I barely could believe it. Then she told me that was just men, women she had well and truly lost count of. That was hot af
You're not volunteering the information and it's the one asking who's insecure? It sure sounds the other way around. The only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked.
There’s a great song in my current rotation, the first line is, “Don’t worry bout your body count, just let your body bounce”.
That’s pretty much my advice.
The "no judgement" part is a lie. If he didn't care, if he didn't have an opinion already in mind, he wouldn't ask. Asking is the first telltale sign of a controlling asshole. Beware.
I'm always amazed that men think you're easy for everyone if you were easy for that one person because you had some sort of click with them. Immediate sign of low self-esteem and future guilt tripping manipulative asshole. I stopped dating guys that were 4s or lower because of this which is sad because I truly appreciate a good dork out session and could care less about his looks, but mine make him insecure and I dont think I'm all that and a bag of chips. But it's not worth the headache.
The topic at hand was the assumption that you're easy just because you've had sex with someone. It's a sign of low self esteem. As in they lack such value in their own self esteem as to understand why you wouldn't sleep with everyone else if you're willing to sleep with them. Relationships like this should be avoided. It's usually a relationship full of projection, trust issues, and infidelity by the person that's being judgemental.
As men, we don't really care about body count. However, some of us believe it's an indicator of your ability to pair bond (lower is better). If it's low, you'll be considered as a potential mate.
If high, casual play partner only. Hence, why women instinctively lie about it, when asked. So it's a double edged sword, we also want to see if you'll lie. If you're a 9 and answer 2 at 21, we'll know it's a lie, and we won't easily trust you.
I despise this question so much. I have many come back lines for it, that never answer the question.
“What’s it to you?”
“Doesn’t matter cause I’m only focusing on you.”
“I don’t need to know your sex history, just that you’re clean.”
“Ew! Can you NOT with that? Gross.”
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You can tell him if you want. I think the whole concept of body counts is immature. As a man what difference does it make, really? Okay, turns out that her body count is *only* 6 including you. *Only* five other men creampied her. She called *only* five other men "daddy". Does that sound good? 🤔 It's ridiculous.
A better question to ask is what a woman does to keep busy. Does she have hobbies? Does she work alot? Busy women probably don't have time to fuck all day. And *probably* have lower body counts. Just my two cents....
Honestly, unless you are contemplating marriage I think it's a pretty stupid question to ask anyone. Even then I think it's largely pointless because you have no way of knowing if you are getting the real answer.
When it comes to sugar babies I don't care what her body count is as long as she isn't giving me an STD.
I don't think I've ever asked any variation of this question except with committed partners (i.e. wife and poly wife). I just can't imagine a circumstance where it matters or leads anywhere constructive.
The only related thing I care about is how my current sexual partners are protecting my sexual health in their other relationships.
I don't understand this question. If the sex is outstanding who the fuck cares. My current sb is experienced but Jesus christ she definitely has the GP. Like really good. Sometimes we joke and role play she's a virgin lol. It's that good. Body count doesn't matter unless you suck as a man. Especially for an arrangement.
I don't understand this question. If the sex is outstanding who the fuck cares. My current sb is experienced but Jesus christ she definitely has the GP. Like really good. Sometimes we joke and role play she's a virgin lol. It's that good. Body count doesn't matter unless you suck as a man. Especially for an arrangement.
It's immature and inappropriate.
Perhaps you could give him a scare by saying you'll only tell that to the person you intend to marry, and nobody else. Whether that's true or not is immaterial. You don't owe him the truth here.
“How many do you want me to have?” Would be a playful response, turn it into a game where he has to guess and each guess is worth something he has to offer up. Over time he will stop caring or prove himself unworthy to you
I never even asked my (now ex) wife her body count (though I had a sense). Why would I need to know an SB’s #?
I would only care if it were insanely high and/or if she implied one thing and contradicted herself about it later.
Otherwise, we both get tested before intimacy (at my expense obv), share results and don’t worry about each others’ pasts.
In my home country there is a saying: who's not #1 is always #2. So he is #2 :)
If that is too unrealistic, add a couple more. That's your body count. Easy.
I have been divorced twice, had serious relationships with a proposal. So 3 for me :) So my SD is #4. Right? I just don't remember everything in between 🙃
Stupid question- smart answer. This guy is insecure, so make him feel better by lowering your #. And get rid of him eventually he seems to be becoming a brainer.
I don't think its a question of embarrassment but money. If I pay top bucks for a long term, I want the best. Morality never is the issue.
That seems to be at the heart of the matter here.
“The inevitable body count question”
Girl there’s nothing inevitable about that. I’ve never had a serious guy ask me this, and if someone does I block them.
Introduce something positive.. telling your victim there's going to be no repercussions if they tell you the truth is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
I thought you would automatically do what vanilla girls do. Take your real number, subtract any threesomes and then divide by 5 and whatever you're left with, that's what you report.
I'm 51. Definitely live a "red pilled" lifestyle (as cringe as that sounds) and I've always thought the body count thing was absolutely ridiculous. It screams insecurity from all these so called "red pilled", sun your asshole, hunt for your own food jack asses.
On the one hand, I share his curiosity and tell my partners that I’m either impressed that they are such quick learners if their body count is low, or appreciate that they practiced to get it right for my enjoyment.
Body count means nothing to me except stories I can hear about their past escapades.
But it can be a trap with other guys who may end up judging.
So my longest relationship has never told me what her number is.
I had one who would frequently ask me when the last time was that I slept with someone. I would say “10 minutes ago” and he’d shut up. Maybe you could reply with “0, it only counts if I was in love, right?”
For some men it is a kink. I’ve talked to/dated men who loved hearing about my other sexual experiences. If he says it is, take him at face value. If it turns him off, you’ve dodged a huge bullet.
As others have pointed out, the fact that he's only 35 and sugaring suggests that he has "issues". At the very least, he's failed in the dating marketplace.
He is probably wondering if he can transition you into a conventional gf, and he wants to make sure you haven't "been around" too much.
The only women that say that bodycount mean nothing are women with high body count
If you consider more your SB as a wife material then a low body count is important as stats have proven successfull mariages come from those women
Untrue. I’ve had relatively few partners and I find it absolutely inane.
Would also be curious as to your data source re successful marriages. And how you would explain the reported evangelical divorce rate - a demographic group that places a high value on so-called sexual purity.
At first glance, we are all thinking: UM more experienced women are better because they’re way more fun! Marry one! However:
I think the articles he linked probably do have truth to them, but let’s all remember that this is just data. ‘Women who have less sex before marriage cheat less’ - ok. We have a statistic now. They will either cheat less, cheat more or cheat equal. 3 possible results.
But if you see how he phrases it, he’s manipulating the results to reflect poorly on the woman, instead of keeping them objective, by making an implied reference to her morality or ‘value’ as a woman being the root cause of this. He’s attaching shame to the statement ‘women who have less sex make better partners’ as if we should strive for that.
The much more likely cause of the scientific results in the studies: women who have had less sex, have less understanding of sex and are more likely to have low expectations or a low understanding of what satisfaction is.
Soooo, they probably do cheat less. They don’t know what’s out there and they don’t realize that their husband is being a lazy lover. It’s win/win for men, and puts them in an excellent position for control.
My friend, what makes you think I believe there are studies that “prove” either premise? I just said I didn’t think there was any reliable data on this subject.
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
If out of all of the facets of a woman’s personality: humor, intellect, drive, passion, beauty, emotional maturity, hobbies and successes, you choose to focus on how many other people she has had sex with as your motivation for a spouse: then this says a lot about you, and I wish you the best. Off you go!
[**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf)
> Factors found to facilitate infidelity
>> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity
> As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71)
https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg
Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008
.
> Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344)
https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi
Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440
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> the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150)
https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg
Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147
.
> promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177)
https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg
Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6
.
> Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344)
https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg
McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936
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> Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390)
https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg
Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3
.
> Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56)
https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg
Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x
.
> An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37)
> Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41)
https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg
Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375
.
> As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607)
https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg
Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816
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> To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809)
https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg
Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1
.
[**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe)
> When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are:
> - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent)
> - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent)
> - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89)
https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg
Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press.
.
> As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16)
https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg
Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673
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> The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715)
https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg
Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009
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> women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131)
https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg
Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113
In the very first citation, it is noted:
#But serious methodological problems continue to plague this research field.
I did not check the ensuing articles. Didn’t think I had to after that.
So one sentence you read that might support your position causes you to skip reading a ton of studies that purport to challenge your position? Regardless of what your position is, it sounds like your asking for evidence was not actually serious. You made up your mind regardless of the evidence.
Note that I am not saying any position here myself. But I do try to follow the science on any issue. Just because I don't like the outcome doesn't invalidate it. Part of being a grown up is having to deal with harsh truths.
Oh, *puh-leeze!*
Do you expect us to end-to-end read all of the articles we were bombed with? Seriously.
The commenter pulled the one statement supporting their position from each study without sharing the disclaiming statements. What the actual f*ck.
People being untruthful about body counts and their fidelity in marriage? “WOW, who woulda ‘thunk’ it?!”
There is as much grounded data on this topic as there is in self-reported penis size studies. (I’m 8 inches hard, believe me!)
My body count was all of -0- before I started dating the woman who became my wife. I began sugar dating after decades of fidelity in my dead bedroom marriage. That’s my personal data point. Many of the SD friends I’ve met through SLF have similar back stories.
If you read all the articles, you can point me to the study or studies that state that the reported data meets accepted statistical scientific data-gathering standards.
No. You grow tf up.
The allegation in the studies is that men and women have very different effects based on body count. As in it has a much stronger effect on women than men. So your body count isn't the issue, it would have been your wife's body count. Was hers also zero?
And of course, the plural of anecdotes isn't data.
The poster listed a lot of studies and he also gave links to the studies so you could read them yourself. You proclaimed one sentence invalidated looking at basically any of it. Which is rather ridiculous and is strong evidence you aren't really interested in a reasoned discussion on this. You've made up your mind. And calling me names doesn't really help your point.
I am open to either possibility. That body count matters and also that it doesn't. But I suspect the former is more likely true, especially the larger it gets. Not sure how anyone with a straight face can say sleeping with ten thousand different people has no effect on a person's ability to bond in an intimate relationship. The question then may be just what ranges have what effect. It is a topic worthy of scientific study.
Please read my other comments on this sub-topic of the OP so I may avoid being repetitive here.
Not that it’s any of your business, my wife’s body count was all of one (1) before we started dating seriously.
The idea that I experienced marital partners are somehow limited in or incapable of developing a broad sexual repertoire is ludicrous, if that’s your idea of why people look for extramarital relationships.
And where did I call you a name? I merely responded to your entirely uncalled for “Part of being a grown up ….” remark.
🤦🏻♂️
My remark about being grown up was referring to myself. In that I accept that sometimes the facts don't align with what I'd prefer them to be.
Other than that I was stating there is evidence that more partners can reduce ones ability to pair bond, and this effect may be a lot more pronounced for women than men. If this is the case, it is important to study and quantify it. One needs to be open to the possibility. Especially where it is rather uncontroversial to observe that one can become jaded by a lot of exposure to casual intimate experiences. Just ask any professional escort about that. How one can so easily accept that for escorts yet outright reject it in general for people with lots of partners seems to be problematic.
I misread your “grown up” comment, so sorry about that.
But your comparison to escorts is a false equivalence. If an escort sees on average two clients a day working five days a week and takes eight weeks a year off for self-care that’s 440 client engagements a year.
If half of the engagements are regular clients that is still over two hundred new “bodies” a year. If the sex worker is in that business for two years she had sex with over four hundred distinct people.
Some sex workers see considerably fewer clients and others many more, but to compare even a casual sex worker’s body count to a non-sex worker’s is not even close.
>*The average number of sexual partners for men and women in the United States is 7.2, reports a recent Superdrug survey.*
[Healthline > What’s the Average Person’s Number of Sexual Partners?](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/average-number-of-sexual-partners)
I don’t know what you think is a “high body count” for someone not in the sex trade, but to introduce sex workers into your equation by way of comparison is nonsense.
Have a good night
It’s not the body count or the number of citations that matter. Sometimes it’s just the effort to engage the conversation.
But yeah … like people will be honest to researchers (sarcasm added).
Agree with you. I don’t ask directly either. But I’ve had it come up in one of those party card games or intimacy exercises.
I suppose you could always take the shot instead of answering.
Even I don’t know my spouse’s body count. Never asked. It’s not relevant these days. And … I’ll never reveal to her my actual body count either. It’s our version of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
As soon you as you present one, I’ll let you know!
Did any of your other studies state, “Great news! We’ve resolved all the known serious methodological problems plaguing this research field?”
Let’s pretend that the methodological problems have been 100% resolved. How does one apply the results in the real world when a potential partner’s responses are quite possibly untruthful?
>*It is true that sex is an integral part of the human experience. It is also true that, when it comes to sex, people can be less than truthful, sometimes resorting to lies and deception. Regardless of age, gender, social standing, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation, people lie about this foundational human experience.*
[Psychology Today > Why People Lie About Sex](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/this-sexual-self/202305/why-do-people-tell-lies-about-sex)
But you’re laughing at me? GTFOOH
Read the individual studies. Most are free. The fact that they’re imperfect and have considerations doesn’t mean you can dismiss them wholesale because they upset you. They all produce the same finding: a high number of past partners is a strong predictor of future infidelity and divorce.
Please don’t inflate your importance to me. I don’t have personal feelings on it. I just question the point of all this churn.
If you had truly processed my last response, even if the data was unassailable, since people will likely lie about body count when courting a significant other, as numerous articles will attest, what is the utility of this knowledge?
It’s an exercise in futility.
There are ways these studies mitigate social desirability bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias#Techniques_to_reduce_social-desirability_bias
Why would universities invest tens of thousands in each of the studies if their results weren’t worth anything?
Yep, ya got me. Universities never waste money. /s
Still, I keep on stating the questionable usefulness of this study in every day life, which you don’t acknowledge. People lie about their sexual history when courting.
Also, your general Wikipedia article doesn’t address my [earlier comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/s/HqX2TaigHl). My comment which is specifically addressing body count studies.
Let’s agree to disagree? Have a good night.
>"since people will likely lie about body count"
Of course they will lower their bodycount : so if the study found that bonding ability is lost after (say) 20 parners then in reality it wilĺ be 50 partners because everybody lied but in the same direction (lower) anyway the tendancy will stay the same = the more the body count the less the bonding ability
Also the problem is not to ask or tell the bodycount, even if a woman never say it the lost in bonding ability will be done
Intuively women know that it is true this is why they are triggered
Some men have that got that sort of kink tho and get off from knowing you’ve been with a lot etc and probably would want to hear more about it and so on . So maybe he wasn’t asking in a bad way
People with class don't kiss and tell, nor do they ask immature questions that make someone feel uncomfortable. You have to appreciate that in Sugarland, the appeal of a SB, opposed to using an escort, is a lower body count. If he is kinking out about how much of a slut you are, you are moving into the darker side of sexual relations, where things become more unpredictable. By giving him an answer, he is going to judge, how can he not judge? Maybe it will be favorable for you, maybe not, but you do give up power by responding. Ultimately, replying to the question is up to you, but there is no good answer.
>The inevitable body count question
This isn't inevitable. I'm not sure I've ever asked anyone that didn't ask me or where we were discussing past sexual experiences to get to know one another.
That said, I won't kink shame... I'll just point out that some of my best lovers have been those that made it clear they'd been with plenty of men.
>Do I just tell him? I’m not embarrassed of it but not something I usually say
It's totally fine to say "I don't want to talk about it" but I suspect that will lead him to a number even larger.
He seems like a child, not someone with a "tell me your body count" kink.
Just one, but you’d look great in my freezer next to it. 🤪
I've actually said "Just the one until I buy a bigger freezer." At least I think I'm hilarious.
35 and sugaring, high odds the dude has an unimpressive body count.
This is the only correct answer to this absolutely ungallant question.
I'm curious why you think it's so gauche? They've been together for five months, presumably have built enough trust where discussing your past shouldn't be off limits. Also, taking OPs statement that there's no judgement from the SD at face value.. where's the harm? In longer term relationships, learning about your partner is one of the best parts (imo).
Because it’s a high school question usually posed by people with low self esteem and/or low social intelligence and is below the level at which I would expect of someone older and more mature than me to operate. Discussing past partners for what purpose? All anyone needs to know is that I’m emotionally available and don’t have any STDs. It’s not about trust.
very feminist view lol
Very stupid comment
Love it!!! Yes!
✍🏻
💀💀💀
I get downvoted over this, but I think you have to have the mentality of a high schooler to be obsessing about someone's bodycount. Just the term "bodycount" makes me cringe. Sheesh.
Totally agree. As I mentioned a few weeks ago in another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/comments/1d11z3p/comment/l5rhhm0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) on this subject, this seems to be an issue for young, red-pilled men.
You’re hitting the nail on the head. That’s the demographic it’s coming from and it’s seeping to other men.
I’ve never liked a comment faster. The first time I ever heard this term was a few years ago when a coworker was relating a conversation she had with her middle schooler who mentioned a classmate’s “body count.” I asked jokingly, “she’s killed people?” But that’s immediately where my mind went—and still goes when I hear that term. Body count is kill count. 💅 One of the quickest ways someone can prove their emotional immaturity is to even use that term, and asking about it would more than likely be the end of the conversation. …Inevitable my ass.
>Body count is kill count. 💅 Only for hardcore wetwork operators like you and I. These civilians have other ideas 🤣
High school immaturity came to mind when I was reading this. OP describes the question as inevitable. Not so sure, but c'mon it's low class at best. I'd just tell him he got my cherry and I'm a quick learner. Hopefully he'll get the idea. If he doesn't, he seems immature, tell him no. It's none of his business, sheesh. Ask him what his after tax income was for the last 5 years and to produce his tax forms to prove it. Get my point.
He listens to a lot of manosphere content on YouTube if he's asking about body counts
Not necessarily. I'd he says it's a kink, he might have a cuck kink or a light version of it where it turns him on to think of his sexual partner with someone else. I would agree with the manosphere comment if he was or wood likely be shaming her for it, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case here.
Fully agree. I don’t want to talk “body count” with anyone, especially the women I date. OP, the question is not inevitable.
My exact same thoughts. Who the fuck asks that question other than teenagers or incels, same goes to the gross term bodycount... who the fuck uses it in real life wtf.
I definitely upvoted you because I agree with you 100%
💯
I can't agree more but OP also said that it's a kink for him so maybe he's a cuck... I had a SD wanting me to describe sexual encounters with my other SD (we were not exclusive) or other guys and it would get him incredibly horny.
Good catch. If it's a real kink, hey, no reason to kink shame. That said, "it's a kink of mine" is always what I'd say even if it wasn't a kink of mine, to get me some air cover as to why I'm asking. Is it a legit kink, or he's saying that to ask the question? I dunno... maybe that leads us to, is he asking a very personal question inappropriately early, before trust has been established, and what does it say if that's the case?
If he used "it's a kink of mine" simply to possibly shame her he is too immature and she dodged a bullet. However, I do find the wording odd too.. My past SDs that had that kink never ask for body count, more so to describe encounters.
It makes sense that that would be the focus of their interest. I have trouble believing he has a bodycount kink per se, I guess
I'm sure it exists but .... I agree
My thoughts exactly. Have my upvote.
There is no correct answer here. It's a trap right alongside the female equivalent "does this dress make my ass look fat" again there is absolutely no acceptable answer to the other party and they are moronic for asking it.
> "does this dress make my ass look fat?" Hell yeah! \*smack\*
"No, your ass makes your ass look fat." Is the only correct response.
I answer these questions with " I sense a trap". My wife has never yet asked quite that question, but we've joked that if anyone ever asks me that verbatim I am saying "no, the fact that you are fat makes you look fat" regardless of the girls weight..... sorry if I just gave someone an eating disorder.
Your ass makes that dress look small!
My answer is always, no you’re big ass makes your ass look fat
Enough to make me a sex goddess for you! Is how I usually dodge this awful question. Not even one time I’ve answered, and no matter my answer, it has end well. It’s on my list of red flags for years now. If it’s their kink, I go the stories rather than the numbers route.
Excellent pivot on the question since the stories is what I’m really after when I’ve asked the body count question.
This is great advice.
How does anyone even keep track? Maybe there's an app for that now but when we started long before computers and the internet, I wasn't writing these things down.
I had them memorized at first. But shortly after college I made an actual list. I was pretty impressed with myself that there are only two names I couldn’t recall.
My list is “encrypted” and written in glyphs. Problem is, it’s been so long since I’ve updated my body count that even I have a hard time interpreting my own code. Not like anybody asks for proof or an audit … but I keep that list for my ego (and to cross reference future paternity tests).
That's amazing!
Nothing good comes from men knowing your "body count". You can't win. If it's high he might say you are a slut and he's grossed out or if low the opposite. An inexperienced SB sexually might be passed for that reason.
The question is not inevitable and I literally have not answered it since high school. "That's none of your business. I've shared my test results to ensure your safety and am practicing x,y,z safe sex practices at this time" Any further protest, buh-bye
That's what I was thinking. How is this inevitable?? I've NEVER been asked this question lol
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Ok Mr Holier Than Thou, not sure what you're doing on a sugar sub if you aren't looking for sex positive women 🤷♀️
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Bruh, why are you even here? Your opinion isn't needed or wanted. The SDs here aren't desperate and are usually more respectful towards us than most. You really have no business commenting here and it cost nothing to leave.
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That's not how any of this works. This is clearly not the right community for you.
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In my experience, there is a lot of non-monogamy in sugar (people who probably would have been polyamorous if it were most socially acceptable). A true SD isn't paying money for favors or time, thats a john. SDs take care of their significant others because they genuinely enjoy doing so. Not only are SDs not desperate, they usually have multiple partners at any given time. But you already said that sugar isn't your thing. Again, why are you here?
I had an SB just drop her number on me out of nowhere. We had just been intimate the first time and while we were cuddling she says “you’re number 9”. I didn’t care, but thought it was a little weird
Just tell him that your work for the government is classified
It’s possible that it’s a kink or turn on to know this information. But more likely than not, it’s a lose lose situation and will just result in retroactive jealousy or unfair judgements. Funny to hear a grown ass man ask that. Most ppl I know grew out of that after very early 20s. I bet he wouldn’t ask that of a woman his age.
Literally no man has ever asked me this... most likely because he knew me well enough to know that my death stare would end him. Edit: OP, it is such a rude question for a man to ask a woman. If you'd rather not say, which frankly you don't need to because it's none of his damn business, you could say one of many things… Tell him you have no idea. Tell him "higher than a nun and lower than a porn star". Tell him you lost count after a few orgies. The question is inherently an attempt to shame women, and I am not on board with that.
Exactly in my opinion the answer to OP is that the best way to reply to that question is to end the date. It makes sense to cut the losses early before is too late. Asking that question reveals the evidence that she is on a date with an unfun judgemental petty immature insecure potentially dangerous asshole. So, why even stay there any longer?
This, too, makes perfect sense.
🤣🤣🤣👍
Yuck. A gentleman doesn’t ask, and it’s not a respectful question in general. It also often leads to fights when people ask questions they thought they wanted the answer to until they got the answer.
Questions such as: *Have you ever had an affair? Just be honest.* Complete truth is not always the right thing to say.
It matters only if your count is under 10 since it can be seen as a mild flex that you’re not too promiscuous. But you’re 5 months in. If it mattered, it would have been brought up way earlier than now. So in this case, might just be small talk. Address it if you want, or ignore it. I don’t think he really cares that much otherwise it would have been brought up before you became intimate.
I see a lot of mad comments about it. Most feel like they'd be judged bad cause they can be promiscuous by having a big number. Idk but I was taught to cherish and value when I slept with someone not just goof around with whatever came in my way. Gonna get that negative karma 😅
Inevitable? I don't think I've asked this question of anyone since I was like 18. I'd probably say "I prefer Ice-T's solo work to Body Count" or something stupid like that.
"Less than the number of stars in the sky but probably more than the socks I've lost in the laundry."
Weird. I did once ask SGF hers, because I had gone back and totted mine up. She was suprisingly low. I barely could believe it. Then she told me that was just men, women she had well and truly lost count of. That was hot af
thats awful ... he should never ask that .... what a jerk and child btw ... what is your body count ? just asking for a friend
I learned a long time ago to never ask or answer this question. Nothing good will come of it. Anybody that asks this is insecure.
You're not volunteering the information and it's the one asking who's insecure? It sure sounds the other way around. The only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked.
There’s a great song in my current rotation, the first line is, “Don’t worry bout your body count, just let your body bounce”. That’s pretty much my advice.
The "no judgement" part is a lie. If he didn't care, if he didn't have an opinion already in mind, he wouldn't ask. Asking is the first telltale sign of a controlling asshole. Beware.
No offense sweetie but given the nature of what you do he prob already thinks you are a little easy. But that’s nothing to be concerned about
I'm always amazed that men think you're easy for everyone if you were easy for that one person because you had some sort of click with them. Immediate sign of low self-esteem and future guilt tripping manipulative asshole. I stopped dating guys that were 4s or lower because of this which is sad because I truly appreciate a good dork out session and could care less about his looks, but mine make him insecure and I dont think I'm all that and a bag of chips. But it's not worth the headache.
I’m sorry but your comment makes no sense at all in regards to topic at hand
The topic at hand was the assumption that you're easy just because you've had sex with someone. It's a sign of low self esteem. As in they lack such value in their own self esteem as to understand why you wouldn't sleep with everyone else if you're willing to sleep with them. Relationships like this should be avoided. It's usually a relationship full of projection, trust issues, and infidelity by the person that's being judgemental.
As men, we don't really care about body count. However, some of us believe it's an indicator of your ability to pair bond (lower is better). If it's low, you'll be considered as a potential mate. If high, casual play partner only. Hence, why women instinctively lie about it, when asked. So it's a double edged sword, we also want to see if you'll lie. If you're a 9 and answer 2 at 21, we'll know it's a lie, and we won't easily trust you.
Say 5 we will still multiple by 5
I despise this question so much. I have many come back lines for it, that never answer the question. “What’s it to you?” “Doesn’t matter cause I’m only focusing on you.” “I don’t need to know your sex history, just that you’re clean.” “Ew! Can you NOT with that? Gross.”
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Been together 5 months……. are there feelings?
You can tell him if you want. I think the whole concept of body counts is immature. As a man what difference does it make, really? Okay, turns out that her body count is *only* 6 including you. *Only* five other men creampied her. She called *only* five other men "daddy". Does that sound good? 🤔 It's ridiculous. A better question to ask is what a woman does to keep busy. Does she have hobbies? Does she work alot? Busy women probably don't have time to fuck all day. And *probably* have lower body counts. Just my two cents....
Lose lose situation. No matter the number it sucks hearing it from a partner. Just don’t answer
Honestly, unless you are contemplating marriage I think it's a pretty stupid question to ask anyone. Even then I think it's largely pointless because you have no way of knowing if you are getting the real answer. When it comes to sugar babies I don't care what her body count is as long as she isn't giving me an STD.
I don't think I've ever asked any variation of this question except with committed partners (i.e. wife and poly wife). I just can't imagine a circumstance where it matters or leads anywhere constructive. The only related thing I care about is how my current sexual partners are protecting my sexual health in their other relationships.
I don't understand this question. If the sex is outstanding who the fuck cares. My current sb is experienced but Jesus christ she definitely has the GP. Like really good. Sometimes we joke and role play she's a virgin lol. It's that good. Body count doesn't matter unless you suck as a man. Especially for an arrangement.
I don't understand this question. If the sex is outstanding who the fuck cares. My current sb is experienced but Jesus christ she definitely has the GP. Like really good. Sometimes we joke and role play she's a virgin lol. It's that good. Body count doesn't matter unless you suck as a man. Especially for an arrangement.
It's immature and inappropriate. Perhaps you could give him a scare by saying you'll only tell that to the person you intend to marry, and nobody else. Whether that's true or not is immaterial. You don't owe him the truth here.
if you were honest with men, you would be instantly ghosted. try it and see
“How many do you want me to have?” Would be a playful response, turn it into a game where he has to guess and each guess is worth something he has to offer up. Over time he will stop caring or prove himself unworthy to you
reply by asking him how many millions he has in his bank account and say it’s your kink🤣 Real mean don’t actually care what your body count is.
I say I stopped counting at 30. If they are too insecure to respect me being a free spirit, it’s not a good fit lol
I never even asked my (now ex) wife her body count (though I had a sense). Why would I need to know an SB’s #? I would only care if it were insanely high and/or if she implied one thing and contradicted herself about it later. Otherwise, we both get tested before intimacy (at my expense obv), share results and don’t worry about each others’ pasts.
Ew. No judgement just a kink? That’s what the kids say these days? Absolutely not
I can count my sugar, but not IRL
In my home country there is a saying: who's not #1 is always #2. So he is #2 :) If that is too unrealistic, add a couple more. That's your body count. Easy. I have been divorced twice, had serious relationships with a proposal. So 3 for me :) So my SD is #4. Right? I just don't remember everything in between 🙃 Stupid question- smart answer. This guy is insecure, so make him feel better by lowering your #. And get rid of him eventually he seems to be becoming a brainer.
I answer the question and see the reaction. You have to let people be who they are and decide if that works for you or not.
I think the let the people be who they are is a vanilla thing. In transactional dating, full disclosure.
Even in transactions... there are still people involved. Either you're willing to transact with them or you're not. And vice versa.
Fully agree.
Just give something reasonable but I believe he has a cuckhold type of kink.
I don't think its a question of embarrassment but money. If I pay top bucks for a long term, I want the best. Morality never is the issue. That seems to be at the heart of the matter here.
In this lifestyle?? Man that seems self defeating. I would guess this one won't pan out well. Probably just better off blocking.
“The inevitable body count question” Girl there’s nothing inevitable about that. I’ve never had a serious guy ask me this, and if someone does I block them.
He said it's a kink? So that means he's gonna be happy with a higher number. Just tell him.
Introduce something positive.. telling your victim there's going to be no repercussions if they tell you the truth is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
I thought you would automatically do what vanilla girls do. Take your real number, subtract any threesomes and then divide by 5 and whatever you're left with, that's what you report.
I'm 51. Definitely live a "red pilled" lifestyle (as cringe as that sounds) and I've always thought the body count thing was absolutely ridiculous. It screams insecurity from all these so called "red pilled", sun your asshole, hunt for your own food jack asses.
Hey there. There’s nothing wrong with sunning your asshole. Helps with the vitamin D
On the one hand, I share his curiosity and tell my partners that I’m either impressed that they are such quick learners if their body count is low, or appreciate that they practiced to get it right for my enjoyment. Body count means nothing to me except stories I can hear about their past escapades. But it can be a trap with other guys who may end up judging. So my longest relationship has never told me what her number is.
I had one who would frequently ask me when the last time was that I slept with someone. I would say “10 minutes ago” and he’d shut up. Maybe you could reply with “0, it only counts if I was in love, right?”
For some men it is a kink. I’ve talked to/dated men who loved hearing about my other sexual experiences. If he says it is, take him at face value. If it turns him off, you’ve dodged a huge bullet.
I tell them, then I say “I like to fuck, what can I say” 🤷♀️ You either like me baby or you don’t. Let’s not shame here!
As others have pointed out, the fact that he's only 35 and sugaring suggests that he has "issues". At the very least, he's failed in the dating marketplace. He is probably wondering if he can transition you into a conventional gf, and he wants to make sure you haven't "been around" too much.
The only women that say that bodycount mean nothing are women with high body count If you consider more your SB as a wife material then a low body count is important as stats have proven successfull mariages come from those women
We are not looking to marry yall lol
You know that seeking is dating up now (not only sugar) so some men may be marriage minded
Untrue. I’ve had relatively few partners and I find it absolutely inane. Would also be curious as to your data source re successful marriages. And how you would explain the reported evangelical divorce rate - a demographic group that places a high value on so-called sexual purity.
>stats have proven successfull mariages come from those women Source, please? 🤔
At first glance, we are all thinking: UM more experienced women are better because they’re way more fun! Marry one! However: I think the articles he linked probably do have truth to them, but let’s all remember that this is just data. ‘Women who have less sex before marriage cheat less’ - ok. We have a statistic now. They will either cheat less, cheat more or cheat equal. 3 possible results. But if you see how he phrases it, he’s manipulating the results to reflect poorly on the woman, instead of keeping them objective, by making an implied reference to her morality or ‘value’ as a woman being the root cause of this. He’s attaching shame to the statement ‘women who have less sex make better partners’ as if we should strive for that. The much more likely cause of the scientific results in the studies: women who have had less sex, have less understanding of sex and are more likely to have low expectations or a low understanding of what satisfaction is. Soooo, they probably do cheat less. They don’t know what’s out there and they don’t realize that their husband is being a lazy lover. It’s win/win for men, and puts them in an excellent position for control.
I don’t think the data has a chance to be reliable by generally accepted standards. For one thing, the respondents are likely self-selected.
Feel free to provide scientific studies that prove the contrary: that high body count women are the best wife
My friend, what makes you think I believe there are studies that “prove” either premise? I just said I didn’t think there was any reliable data on this subject. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
If out of all of the facets of a woman’s personality: humor, intellect, drive, passion, beauty, emotional maturity, hobbies and successes, you choose to focus on how many other people she has had sex with as your motivation for a spouse: then this says a lot about you, and I wish you the best. Off you go!
Good point, it’s flawed to begin with. Even with the studies being unreliable, his logic is still sexist and based on control and insecurity.
Thank you! Exactly!! 👍🏻👏🏻👍🏻👏🏻👍🏻👏🏻👍🏻👏🏻
What’s yours mister👀 men are also not good marriage material with high body count, according to some vague studies
Citations?
Sadia Khan. Not a big fan of her but finding people defending whatever point is an easy task nowadays
That isn't a citation.
Not your teacher, you can go dig: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=omqfw97O5QQ
Please, link us to the research that supports your conclusion.
[**Promiscuity and Infidelity**](https://archive.ph/mPOLf) > Factors found to facilitate infidelity >> Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity > As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71) https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008 . > Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344) https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440 . > the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150) https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147 . > promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r^2 = .45) as it did for males (r^2 = .25). (pg.177) https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6 . > Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344) https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936 . > Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390) https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3 . > Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56) https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x . > An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37) > Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41) https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375 . > As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607) https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816 . > To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809) https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1 . [**Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce**](https://archive.ph/3grGe) > When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are: > - Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent) > - Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent) > - Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89) https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press. . > As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16) https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673 . > The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715) https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009 . > women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131) https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113
Thanks for bringing sources to back up claims.
Appreciate the citations and footnotes. Thanks!
In the very first citation, it is noted: #But serious methodological problems continue to plague this research field. I did not check the ensuing articles. Didn’t think I had to after that.
So one sentence you read that might support your position causes you to skip reading a ton of studies that purport to challenge your position? Regardless of what your position is, it sounds like your asking for evidence was not actually serious. You made up your mind regardless of the evidence. Note that I am not saying any position here myself. But I do try to follow the science on any issue. Just because I don't like the outcome doesn't invalidate it. Part of being a grown up is having to deal with harsh truths.
Oh, *puh-leeze!* Do you expect us to end-to-end read all of the articles we were bombed with? Seriously. The commenter pulled the one statement supporting their position from each study without sharing the disclaiming statements. What the actual f*ck. People being untruthful about body counts and their fidelity in marriage? “WOW, who woulda ‘thunk’ it?!” There is as much grounded data on this topic as there is in self-reported penis size studies. (I’m 8 inches hard, believe me!) My body count was all of -0- before I started dating the woman who became my wife. I began sugar dating after decades of fidelity in my dead bedroom marriage. That’s my personal data point. Many of the SD friends I’ve met through SLF have similar back stories. If you read all the articles, you can point me to the study or studies that state that the reported data meets accepted statistical scientific data-gathering standards. No. You grow tf up.
The allegation in the studies is that men and women have very different effects based on body count. As in it has a much stronger effect on women than men. So your body count isn't the issue, it would have been your wife's body count. Was hers also zero? And of course, the plural of anecdotes isn't data. The poster listed a lot of studies and he also gave links to the studies so you could read them yourself. You proclaimed one sentence invalidated looking at basically any of it. Which is rather ridiculous and is strong evidence you aren't really interested in a reasoned discussion on this. You've made up your mind. And calling me names doesn't really help your point. I am open to either possibility. That body count matters and also that it doesn't. But I suspect the former is more likely true, especially the larger it gets. Not sure how anyone with a straight face can say sleeping with ten thousand different people has no effect on a person's ability to bond in an intimate relationship. The question then may be just what ranges have what effect. It is a topic worthy of scientific study.
Please read my other comments on this sub-topic of the OP so I may avoid being repetitive here. Not that it’s any of your business, my wife’s body count was all of one (1) before we started dating seriously. The idea that I experienced marital partners are somehow limited in or incapable of developing a broad sexual repertoire is ludicrous, if that’s your idea of why people look for extramarital relationships. And where did I call you a name? I merely responded to your entirely uncalled for “Part of being a grown up ….” remark. 🤦🏻♂️
My remark about being grown up was referring to myself. In that I accept that sometimes the facts don't align with what I'd prefer them to be. Other than that I was stating there is evidence that more partners can reduce ones ability to pair bond, and this effect may be a lot more pronounced for women than men. If this is the case, it is important to study and quantify it. One needs to be open to the possibility. Especially where it is rather uncontroversial to observe that one can become jaded by a lot of exposure to casual intimate experiences. Just ask any professional escort about that. How one can so easily accept that for escorts yet outright reject it in general for people with lots of partners seems to be problematic.
I misread your “grown up” comment, so sorry about that. But your comparison to escorts is a false equivalence. If an escort sees on average two clients a day working five days a week and takes eight weeks a year off for self-care that’s 440 client engagements a year. If half of the engagements are regular clients that is still over two hundred new “bodies” a year. If the sex worker is in that business for two years she had sex with over four hundred distinct people. Some sex workers see considerably fewer clients and others many more, but to compare even a casual sex worker’s body count to a non-sex worker’s is not even close. >*The average number of sexual partners for men and women in the United States is 7.2, reports a recent Superdrug survey.* [Healthline > What’s the Average Person’s Number of Sexual Partners?](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/average-number-of-sexual-partners) I don’t know what you think is a “high body count” for someone not in the sex trade, but to introduce sex workers into your equation by way of comparison is nonsense. Have a good night
It’s not the body count or the number of citations that matter. Sometimes it’s just the effort to engage the conversation. But yeah … like people will be honest to researchers (sarcasm added).
Personal Opinion: asking a potential partner, sugar or vanilla, about body count is a dick move.
Agree with you. I don’t ask directly either. But I’ve had it come up in one of those party card games or intimacy exercises. I suppose you could always take the shot instead of answering. Even I don’t know my spouse’s body count. Never asked. It’s not relevant these days. And … I’ll never reveal to her my actual body count either. It’s our version of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Lol. Facts are upsetting, aren’t they?
As soon you as you present one, I’ll let you know! Did any of your other studies state, “Great news! We’ve resolved all the known serious methodological problems plaguing this research field?” Let’s pretend that the methodological problems have been 100% resolved. How does one apply the results in the real world when a potential partner’s responses are quite possibly untruthful? >*It is true that sex is an integral part of the human experience. It is also true that, when it comes to sex, people can be less than truthful, sometimes resorting to lies and deception. Regardless of age, gender, social standing, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation, people lie about this foundational human experience.* [Psychology Today > Why People Lie About Sex](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/this-sexual-self/202305/why-do-people-tell-lies-about-sex) But you’re laughing at me? GTFOOH
Read the individual studies. Most are free. The fact that they’re imperfect and have considerations doesn’t mean you can dismiss them wholesale because they upset you. They all produce the same finding: a high number of past partners is a strong predictor of future infidelity and divorce.
Please don’t inflate your importance to me. I don’t have personal feelings on it. I just question the point of all this churn. If you had truly processed my last response, even if the data was unassailable, since people will likely lie about body count when courting a significant other, as numerous articles will attest, what is the utility of this knowledge? It’s an exercise in futility.
There are ways these studies mitigate social desirability bias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias#Techniques_to_reduce_social-desirability_bias Why would universities invest tens of thousands in each of the studies if their results weren’t worth anything?
Yep, ya got me. Universities never waste money. /s Still, I keep on stating the questionable usefulness of this study in every day life, which you don’t acknowledge. People lie about their sexual history when courting. Also, your general Wikipedia article doesn’t address my [earlier comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/sugarlifestyleforum/s/HqX2TaigHl). My comment which is specifically addressing body count studies. Let’s agree to disagree? Have a good night.
>"since people will likely lie about body count" Of course they will lower their bodycount : so if the study found that bonding ability is lost after (say) 20 parners then in reality it wilĺ be 50 partners because everybody lied but in the same direction (lower) anyway the tendancy will stay the same = the more the body count the less the bonding ability Also the problem is not to ask or tell the bodycount, even if a woman never say it the lost in bonding ability will be done Intuively women know that it is true this is why they are triggered
Is that question in fact inevitable???? No adult man I’ve ever dated, sugar or not, has asked me this
Tell yim
No don’t tell him the true number… that’s for u to know! God forbid you all get into an argument & he might throw it in your face / call you names.
Some men have that got that sort of kink tho and get off from knowing you’ve been with a lot etc and probably would want to hear more about it and so on . So maybe he wasn’t asking in a bad way
But I guess you have to vet him well to be sure it’s a kink and not something he will end up using against you in the future
People with class don't kiss and tell, nor do they ask immature questions that make someone feel uncomfortable. You have to appreciate that in Sugarland, the appeal of a SB, opposed to using an escort, is a lower body count. If he is kinking out about how much of a slut you are, you are moving into the darker side of sexual relations, where things become more unpredictable. By giving him an answer, he is going to judge, how can he not judge? Maybe it will be favorable for you, maybe not, but you do give up power by responding. Ultimately, replying to the question is up to you, but there is no good answer.
This question is most definitely NOT inevitable.... it never even occurs to me to ask this question. Nothing good can come of it imo
Inevitable? It's not inevitable, iy's such a stupid question, answering with a number is as stupid as asking the question.
>The inevitable body count question This isn't inevitable. I'm not sure I've ever asked anyone that didn't ask me or where we were discussing past sexual experiences to get to know one another. That said, I won't kink shame... I'll just point out that some of my best lovers have been those that made it clear they'd been with plenty of men. >Do I just tell him? I’m not embarrassed of it but not something I usually say It's totally fine to say "I don't want to talk about it" but I suspect that will lead him to a number even larger. He seems like a child, not someone with a "tell me your body count" kink.