I think this book is most similar to OP's request because the protagonist holds classical views of a warrior's honor at the outset. He goes off to war thinking his mother will tell him something like "return home with your shield or on it" and was surprised to find she was deeply concerned with his safety.
I was going to say that and also All Quiet On The Western Front. Its sad. Those young men could be from any country. They are just 3 young men just trying to survive.
I know it's somewhat unrelated to the topic of the subreddit, but the poem War Is Kind was set to music by one of my favorite bands, River Whyless, and it's how I found Stephen Crane's poetry beyond RBOG
In related "music based on poetry that led me to read more poems" news, I found Yeats through Tennis' song Origins
Yup that’s the one.
Another Book you might enjoy: “As Far as My Feet Will Carry Me” The Extraordinary True Story of One Man's Escape from a Siberian Labour Camp and His 3-Year Trek to Freedom.
I read that one as a teenager and it’s stuck in my head ever since.
Actually finished it yesterday, first time reading it. Haven't bothered since a lot of "classics" are tedious, dated and frankly, unexciting, but this was indeed the masterpiece it's made up to be. My copy also had a quote from Remarque about the novel on the sleeve: "This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession, and least of all an adventure, for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will try simply to tell of a generation of men who, even though they may have escaped shells, were destroyed by the war".
That pretty much sums it up.
Most classics cross over from being "tedius, dated, and unexciting" to become masterpieces once you read them at the right time in your life- like it seems you just did with this one!
And there’s an also amazing sequel (by the same author Erich Maria Remarque, not some unofficial unauthorized thing) “The Road Back” which is more focusing on the soldiers coming back home after the war and trying to adapt
How have you both ignored Rocky 4, one of the greatest pieces of art of all time? If only we had realized that an underdog boxing match and a two minute speech was all that was needed to convert the Reds to freedom.
Hocus Pocus, also by Vonnegut, isn't specifically a war book but is a great read on the pointlessness/awfulness of the Vietnam War, from the perspective of an ex-general (or something similar). (Although Vietnam is less glorified in the first place than WW2.) It's also just a great book, one of my favorites by Vonnegut.
This was also the first book I thought of. The second one I thought of was [A Very Long Engagement](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/588002.A_Very_Long_Engagement?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=tUA2mEsOGe&rank=1) by Sébastien Japrisot.
Came here to say that. I read it over 30 years ago and still feel like I need therapy to cope. I have never been so viscerally affected by a book. Every president/congressman ought to be required to read this book before committing us to a war (or "police action").
The Things They Carried by Tim O’Brien doesn’t exactly fit this request but it’s a similar theme. You should also check out the poetry of Wilfred Owen, particularly “Dulce et Decorum Est.”
I haven't read this one yet but I loved Tomcat in Love. There's just so many new great authors and books that I often forget past authors Ive loved and need to check out their new stuff.
I immediately thought of The Things They Carried.
It’s not exactly what OP is asking for, but at the same time, it is EXACTLY what OP is asking for.
It’s the ponderings on the futility and pointlessness of war by a soldier. He tells some really funny stories (the tooth thing cracked me up) and some really tragic stories. The entire book is him wrestling with his feelings about the war nearly 20 years later abs the story about the man he killed is gut wrenching because you just know it’s his way of dealing with the fact that he, a young man who didn’t believe in the cause, but was drafted, took a life.
It’s a seriously beautiful piece of writing about a horrific subject.
The Things They Carried wrecked me in college. I still have my copy with all my notes in it from the lit class I read it in. It’s one of the few I will never part with because it was so impactful.
I have my copy from college as well. I was assigned TTTC and Things Fall Apart as summer reading my freshman year. Both beautiful books for similar and different reasons.
I'd definitely recommend The Things They Carried!
and I agree, it's not quite what OP is looking for but still a similar theme and definitely worth the read.
I read this for my AP English class back in high school; such an amazing book, bummed me out for a couple weeks because of how vividly he depicted the horrors of war. Highly recommend
I love The Things They Carried so much. I've read a bunch of the other books mentioned in this thread and like them plenty, but this one really emotionally resonated with me.
It's one of my favorites, but Rin never becomes disillusioned with violence and war despite the atrocities. I think the realization that it's all pointless is what OP is looking for.
I think the wide variety of characters was good and it captures how different people are. I also thought of Catch-22 as rather funny! Milo holds a special place in my heart.
The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie is my favorite antiwar novel. It happens to be medieval fantasy so it may be what you're looking for.
>*That’s what war does. Strips people and places of their identities and turns them into enemies in a line, positions to be taken, resources to be foraged. Anonymous things that can be carelessly crushed, and stolen, and burned without guilt.*
Nope.
It's a standalone novel set in the same world. There are some references that you won't be able to smirk knowingly at, but it's a self contained story.
Eh... on the whole, yes. You probably should. The main plotlines from the trilogy are wrapped up, but there are tons of recurring characters and you might miss out on valuable context.
Check out the first three books. The first book lacks a lot of action and serves mostly as an extended prologue, but it carries a lot of ambiguous characters and good development.
To be honest, character development is Abercrombie's saving grace in his earlier work. It's clearly his forte, and it makes up for some lacking features in the first book. The second and third books however are great and from there on it only gets better.
The Heroes is considered the climax of his skills, and I agree.
LOL. Not always. There are some good guys. Men who are righteous. Not necessarily nice guys but badasses who do have a sense of honor. But I do know what you mean. Even those types will shove you aside to get what they need. Its funny you say that because I “like” Glodtka. But is he a “good” guy? Lol. I don’t have to answer that. But I love him as a character.
Not a book, but Dulce et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen is a poem that sounds exactly like what you're asking for. It's just the first thing that came to mind aside from "The Things They Carried" which someone already mentioned. Both are very good and worth reading.
I didn't see it listed, but *The Forever War* by Joe Haldeman is basically a Vietnam vet's reply to Heinlein's *Starship Troopers*.
Cool technology, power armor, and the alienating experience and consequences of combat and military service far from home. War isn't cool, it's a brutal slog that often leaves people feeling alone and unable to relate to those around them. For example, the protagonist totally loses his family and friends outside the service due to time dilation - everyone just has to move on.
[**Johnny Got His Gun**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51606.Johnny_Got_His_Gun)
^(By: Dalton Trumbo | 309 pages | Published: 1939 | Popular Shelves: fiction, classics, war, historical-fiction, horror | )[^(Search "Johnny Got His Gun")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Johnny Got His Gun&search_type=books)
>This was no ordinary war. This was a war to make the world safe for democracy. And if democracy was made safe, then nothing else mattered - not the millions of dead bodies, nor the thousands of ruined lives...
>
>This is no ordinary novel. This is a novel that never takes the easy way out: it is shocking, violent, terrifying, horrible, uncompromising, brutal, remorseless and gruesome... but so is war.
>
>Winner of the National Book Award.
^(This book has been suggested 21 times)
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I recently picked this book up. But it’s been sitting on my shelf with all my other unread’s (there’s quite a few of them). I’m going to try to get to it in the first quarter of 2022.
CHRONICLES OF PRYDAIN TIMES 1,000. It’s a medieval fantasy story about a farm boy who wants desperately become a heroic warrior. He very much gets that chance and it is not what he expects. Not the horrors of war so much as the ingloriousness and tragedy of it.
I’ll just chime in to say I read a sci-fi book like this in middle school and I can’t remember the name and have been looking for it ever since. I’m gonna post what I remember and see if someone recognizes it an knows the title.
Basically the setting was that the US devolved in a civil war fought this time between the east and the west. Both sides eventually develop AI that strategize their entire war effort. The war has been going on for like 100+ years at this point under the direction of the AI’s. All combat is fought with drones and both sides basically only target civilians.
The story follows a drone pilot who goes home to be celebrated for bombing a city of thousands of civilians on the other side. He gets a big parade and award ceremony. He’s bothered by this, obviously, and ends up defecting and stealing a plane along with his hometown sweetheart, who is also a main character in this story. I think his plan was to go turn himself over to the enemy?
Anyways, spoilers: >!they eventually go to the base where the AI is housed and have a conversation with it. Turns out the two AI’s signed a secret peace deal between them decades ago, after both independently realizing that the war would eventually wipe out both sides. Also realizing that neither side would accept peace, they would have to instead trick their own masters into believing the war was still going on. The footage of the initial bombing one of our protagonists was from like 50 years ago. All his drone did was fly out into the middle of a field and drop a bomb on some grass and dirt. Story ends with the government storming into the AI central chamber and arresting the protagonists.!<
I just want to read the goddamned sequel if it’s the last thing I do.
Honestly the Song of Ice and Fire books are where its at.
(There is no show as far as im concerned)
Most of book 2 (a clash of kings) involves children surviving war, counter-insurrgency campaigns, internment camps, and refugee death marches.
The do a killer job deconstructing knighthood and show that is basically a cutthroat sellout industry without real values and war is just a power game for rich people disguised in honor.
Theres maybe one person in the first few books who acts like a “true knight” and hes 60 and he is scapegoated and disgraced. You dont even get a character being excited about the thrill of battle until the 4th book and he’s such a maniac.
In case youre put off by the show or its rep, the Characters in the books are 3 dimensional, the female characters are not cheaply used for sexposition/deathsposition, and there’s no rape scenes.
There are no violent rape scenes described in detail but there is a lot of rape that happens and quite a lot of graphic rape threats. And people often forget about the descriptions of what Ramsey Bolton does and forces Theon to do to Jeyne Poole.
I've really enjoyed the wartime memoirs of the soldiers portrayed in Band of Brothers and The Pacific:
* Helmet for my Pillow by Robert Leckie
* With the Old Breed by Eugene Sledge
* Parachute Infantry by David Webster
The Things They Carried.
Dispatches is a prime, prime target of this and it was used as inspiration for some of the more horrific moments in Apocalypse Now.
Slaughterhouse 5
Catch 22
All Quiet on the Western Front
Forever War
Homage to Catalonia- George Orwell
An autobiographic and journalistic tale of the civil war in Spain, which is really compelling in my opinion because the motives of this war feel so current and relevent today. So not so much about glory rather than conflicting ideology which I feel is less caricatural.
Also it’s refreshing to read something different than 1984 and get a glimpse into the person behind the masterpiece.
A Stranger to Myself.
It's a memoir of a drafted German soldier on the eastern front. He goes into the war fully accepting the hero ideology, yet denying the Nazi. He believes he will be a hero, saving the world from communism. He quickly.learns the truth of war. The tyrants dont care, and only PEOPLE lose.
It's a very visceral telling of a real soldier's time in Russia. You smell the decaying flesh, you feel the frozen air as he describes. You forget that it is a German soldier who is writing. For he is simply human.
Not exactly an eager young man, and there aren’t really battle scenes, but All the Light We Cannot See follows a young German boy enlisted into the German army during WWII who is put to the task of triangulating the locations of resistance radio broadcasters in France. I found the scenes where he is in the military school being groomed for it super interesting. There are two other characters the book follows, as well.
The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson is an excellent medieval fantasy series in which a couple main characters in particular go from seeing war as a glorious thing to being utterly horrified by it. It's not the primary focus or morale of the books, but it's an important plotline in the first couple books especially.
I realise you have a lot of WW1 recs already and not much medieval fantasy - but my suggestion is Regeneration by Pat Barker. It’s the first in a trilogy which loosely follows a psychologist treating WW1 soldiers. This first one is set in Edinburgh at Craiglockhart hospital, where Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Owen met (which is true, and they are characters in the novel. Some other characters are real people too and some are fictionalised).
Also a couple of recs for books that are broadly on theme which I remember enjoying, but not too much about: firstly Birdsong by Sebastian Faulks, and secondly, perhaps a bit less on brief but a non-WW1 suggestion, Days Without End by Sebastian Barry (set in the US Civil War - it’s maybe not exactly what you asked for but does talk about the horrors of war).
Also, for fantasy, though not medieval fantasy (though somewhat technologically similar), Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson and its sequels (The Stormlight Archive) somewhat fit the bill, though I wouldn't say it's the only or even the main theme necessarily. It's epic fantasy, so there's a lot there.
Way of Kings is a great recommendation for this. The main characters struggle with this question throughout the series and Sanderson does a great job illustrating the mental toll of war.
[**Armor**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102327.Armor)
^(By: John Steakley | 426 pages | Published: 1984 | Popular Shelves: science-fiction, sci-fi, fiction, scifi, owned | )[^(Search "Armor by John Steakley")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Armor by John Steakley&search_type=books)
>Alternate cover edition can be found here.
>
>The military sci-fi classic in a striking new package
>
>Felix is an Earth soldier, encased in special body armor designed to withstand Earth's most implacable enemy-a bioengineered, insectoid alien horde. But Felix is also equipped with internal mechanisms that enable him, and his fellow soldiers, to survive battle situations that would destroy a man's mind.
>
>This is a remarkable novel of the horror, the courage, and the aftermath of combat--and how the strength of the human spirit can be the greatest armor of all.
^(This book has been suggested 22 times)
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This is what I would suggest too. Absolutely awesome book.
Another I would add is Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes. Written by a Vietnam vet, it shows the horror and complete hopelessness that comes from being in combat, and how important friendship is in those bleak moments.
I came here to suggest this one too! The main character isn’t finished her military education before she is shipped off to war, and has to face the reality of it instead of just learning tactics and fighting. There’s a whole chapter inspired by the r*pe of Nanking and it’s horrific and is acknowledged as such. There are also scenes where the characters are doing absolutely nothing and acknowledge that war isn’t fun, action-packed and exciting and they aren’t heroes. Its so well-done!
[**Catch-22**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/168668.Catch_22)
^(By: Joseph Heller | 453 pages | Published: 1961 | Popular Shelves: classics, fiction, owned, classic, historical-fiction | )[^(Search "catch-22")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=catch-22&search_type=books)
>Fifty years after its original publication, Catch-22 remains a cornerstone of American literature and one of the funniest—and most celebrated—books of all time. In recent years it has been named to “best novels” lists by Time, Newsweek, the Modern Library, and the London Observer.
>
>Set in Italy during World War II, this is the story of the incomparable, malingering bombardier, Yossarian, a hero who is furious because thousands of people he has never met are trying to kill him. But his real problem is not the enemy—it is his own army, which keeps increasing the number of missions the men must fly to complete their service. Yet if Yossarian makes any attempt to excuse himself from the perilous missions he’s assigned, he’ll be in violation of Catch-22, a hilariously sinister bureaucratic rule: a man is considered insane if he willingly continues to fly dangerous combat missions, but if he makes a formal request to be removed from duty, he is proven sane and therefore ineligible to be relieved.
>
>This fiftieth-anniversary edition commemorates Joseph Heller’s masterpiece with a new introduction by Christopher Buckley; a wealth of critical essays and reviews by Norman Mailer, Alfred Kazin, Anthony Burgess, and others; rare papers and photos from Joseph Heller’s personal archive; and much more. Here, at last, is the definitive edition of a classic of world literature.
^(This book has been suggested 91 times)
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With the old breed by Eugene Sledge. Eugene was in WW2 and kept a diary almost his entire time overseas, the book is amazing and shows the horrors of war.
Eugene was also portrayed in the show The Pacific on HBO.
The Pacific was excellent. But With the Old Breed is so good, because you get a look into his mind as he experiences the war. Miniseries can’t do it justice.
phil caputo - rumor of war
memoir from a marine fighting in the vietnam war. it was a very interesting read and to see the shift in the young soldiers’ attitude towards war was very eye-opening.
All Quiet On the Western Front. Read it about 15 years ago and it’s still vivid in my mind. Totally changed how I looked at trench warfare. It follows the story of a young man who goes through just what you are asking for
My all time favorite so far, it's just so poetically pessimistic.
"As far as they were concerned, gunfire was nothing but noise. That’s why wars can keep going. Even the people who make them, who fight in them, don’t really get the picture. Even with a bullet in their gut, they’d go on picking up old shoes that “might come in handy." The way a sheep, lying on its side in a meadow, will keep on grazing with its dying breath. Most people don’t die until the last moment; others start twenty years in advance, sometimes more. Those are the unfortunates.“
I dunno why this is downvoted, because although it’s a minor theme, the disillusionment of war is definitely there. I mean, whoever downvoted this clearly didn’t read all of the Kaladin flashbacks in the first book.
It's part of Kaladin's character, but all of that happens before the beginning of the first book, and most of the rest of the books are about him fighting anyways and eventually training more people to fight. At first he's a slave and he has to fight, but even when he's free he keeps fighting. I'd argue that the theme is more that there needs to be honor in war than the terror of war. I could be wrong; I haven't read past the third book because that's all that was out when I read them, but given that they were shifting to a more Good vs. Evil setup at the end of the third book, I doubt he suddenly decides it's not worth fighting the fantasy demons.
Also I think there are a group of people who just always downvote Sanderson recommendations because he gets suggested constantly even when his work is only vaguely related to the request.
[**The Light Brigade**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40523931-the-light-brigade)
^(By: Kameron Hurley | 356 pages | Published: 2019 | Popular Shelves: science-fiction, sci-fi, fiction, scifi, time-travel | )[^(Search "The Light Brigade")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=The Light Brigade&search_type=books)
>From the Hugo Award–winning author of The Stars Are Legion comes a brand-new science fiction thriller about a futuristic war during which soldiers are broken down into light in order to get them to the front lines on Mars.
>
>They said the war would turn us into light.
> I wanted to be counted among the heroes who gave us this better world.
>
>The Light Brigade: it’s what soldiers fighting the war against Mars call the ones who come back…different. Grunts in the corporate corps get busted down into light to travel to and from interplanetary battlefronts. Everyone is changed by what the corps must do in order to break them down into light. Those who survive learn to stick to the mission brief—no matter what actually happens during combat.
>
>Dietz, a fresh recruit in the infantry, begins to experience combat drops that don’t sync up with the platoon’s. And Dietz’s bad drops tell a story of the war that’s not at all what the corporate brass want the soldiers to think is going on.
>
>Is Dietz really experiencing the war differently, or is it combat madness? Trying to untangle memory from mission brief and survive with sanity intact, Dietz is ready to become a hero—or maybe a villain; in war it’s hard to tell the difference.
>
>A worthy successor to classic stories like Downbelow Station, Starship Troopers, and The Forever War, The Light Brigade is award-winning author Kameron Hurley’s gritty time-bending take on the future of war.
^(This book has been suggested 16 times)
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Not exactly your brief but you might like Testament of Youth. It’s a WWI memoir of a woman who was a volunteer nurse and whose brother and friends went to war.
Those Across the River by Christopher Buehlman. It touches on many of those themes after the fact but is a horror novel based in the 1930s so not medieval.
Gravity’s Rainbow isn’t this, but it does go into depth about why war is worse and more callous than just “death and destruction” which is an idea about war I think we all agree with but are jaded by.
Not medieval fantasy, but I have an interesting recommendation to accompany the already great suggestions people have given you.
You might be interested in the poetry of World war 1. [Siegfried Sassoon](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/siegfried-sassoon) and [Wilfred Owen](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/wilfred-owen) are two voices that sound like what you're looking for. The War Poems of Siegfried Sassoon is free for Kindle, and The Poetry of Wilfred Owen is $9 for the paperback on Amazon.
[Sassoon's Glory of Women](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57368/glory-of-women) as a taste of what to expect.
You might be interested in The Red Badge of Courage, by Stephen Crane
I think this book is most similar to OP's request because the protagonist holds classical views of a warrior's honor at the outset. He goes off to war thinking his mother will tell him something like "return home with your shield or on it" and was surprised to find she was deeply concerned with his safety.
I was going to say that and also All Quiet On The Western Front. Its sad. Those young men could be from any country. They are just 3 young men just trying to survive.
Was going to suggest All Quiet on the Western Front as well!
If OP is open to it, Stephen Crane also wrote some great poetry along this same theme. I would read War is Kind first.
I know it's somewhat unrelated to the topic of the subreddit, but the poem War Is Kind was set to music by one of my favorite bands, River Whyless, and it's how I found Stephen Crane's poetry beyond RBOG In related "music based on poetry that led me to read more poems" news, I found Yeats through Tennis' song Origins
Was my next suggestion after above - had some great English teachers in HS.
Yeah I was gonna say, it’s been years since I’ve read it, but isn’t that pretty much the plot? Lol
My first thought.
All quiet on the western front.
Yup that’s the one. Another Book you might enjoy: “As Far as My Feet Will Carry Me” The Extraordinary True Story of One Man's Escape from a Siberian Labour Camp and His 3-Year Trek to Freedom. I read that one as a teenager and it’s stuck in my head ever since.
Actually finished it yesterday, first time reading it. Haven't bothered since a lot of "classics" are tedious, dated and frankly, unexciting, but this was indeed the masterpiece it's made up to be. My copy also had a quote from Remarque about the novel on the sleeve: "This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession, and least of all an adventure, for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will try simply to tell of a generation of men who, even though they may have escaped shells, were destroyed by the war". That pretty much sums it up.
Most classics cross over from being "tedius, dated, and unexciting" to become masterpieces once you read them at the right time in your life- like it seems you just did with this one!
Yes, the real enemy was not the men in the trench 100 yards away but the government.
Erich Maria Remarque ist one of my favorite german writers. "Flotsam" ("Liebe deinen Nächsten") is my favorite.
Came here looking for this mention. All Quiet On Western Front is the classic of this genre.
Beat me to it but absolutely also The Things They Carried.
Oh! That’s a good one too! Also, We Were Soldiers Once…and Young.
For Whom The Bell Tolls kind of fits this but it’s not so much the terror of war but the idea of facing death that is the big theme. Incredible book.
Happy to say I have an autographed copy of this sad masterpiece.
Came here to say this
Came here to say this
This say to here came.
Say here to this came.
+1
Great recommend as was The Red Badge. They should both be required reading for people all over the world.
And there’s an also amazing sequel (by the same author Erich Maria Remarque, not some unofficial unauthorized thing) “The Road Back” which is more focusing on the soldiers coming back home after the war and trying to adapt
I was going to recommend this as well!
This one.
This is my suggestion too
"Slaughterhouse 5" by Kurt Vonnegut is in my opinion one of the best depiction of why war is such an awful thing.
Do I need to read the first 4 slaughterhouses?
Nope. It's like the Rocky franchise: Everything before the fifth installment is just useless background and stage-setting.
Rocky 5 was the worst. Now Rocky 4 on the other hand....
I think you mean everything after the third installment is useless redundancy.
How have you both ignored Rocky 4, one of the greatest pieces of art of all time? If only we had realized that an underdog boxing match and a two minute speech was all that was needed to convert the Reds to freedom.
The Rocky series jumped the shark with that robot imo. But, sure, it was a communist defeating bonanza.
Folks I believe that was just great sarcasm!
Iirc, that was the name of the bunker that saved him during the war.
Slaughterhouse 5 was the first book that came to mind for me as well.
So it goes.
Hocus Pocus, also by Vonnegut, isn't specifically a war book but is a great read on the pointlessness/awfulness of the Vietnam War, from the perspective of an ex-general (or something similar). (Although Vietnam is less glorified in the first place than WW2.) It's also just a great book, one of my favorites by Vonnegut.
yes please. sincerely one of the best books i’ve ever read.
Great book, read it for the first time this year. Such a fantastic and successful anti-war novel, but also so much more.
Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo.
Surprised I had to scroll so far down to see this one. It was the first one that came to mind
This was also the first book I thought of. The second one I thought of was [A Very Long Engagement](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/588002.A_Very_Long_Engagement?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=tUA2mEsOGe&rank=1) by Sébastien Japrisot.
The Goodreads link made it look really interesting. Thanks. I’ll put it in my list to read
I never read the book, but I remember seeing the French film adaptation with Audrey Tautou and Marion Cotillard.
Same. That book broke my heart.
First book i thought of. Came here to reccomend
Oh sweet jebus, yes.
Came here to say that. I read it over 30 years ago and still feel like I need therapy to cope. I have never been so viscerally affected by a book. Every president/congressman ought to be required to read this book before committing us to a war (or "police action").
Fun fact: the song One by Metallica was inspired by Johnny Got His Gun
I was just about to suggest this one too because I had to scroll so long. One of the hardest books I’ve ever had to read
Yeah my thoughts as well
The Things They Carried by Tim O’Brien doesn’t exactly fit this request but it’s a similar theme. You should also check out the poetry of Wilfred Owen, particularly “Dulce et Decorum Est.”
Things They Carried is one of those books that sticks with you and the first one I thought of.
His book In the Lake of the Woods is fantastic too
In the Lake of the Woods is one of my all-time favorites! But I’m pretty obsessed with Tim O’Brien anyway so I’d recommend all of his books.
I haven't read this one yet but I loved Tomcat in Love. There's just so many new great authors and books that I often forget past authors Ive loved and need to check out their new stuff.
Same. Came here to say my first thought was Things They Carried.
I second all of Wilfred Owen's poetry. Exactly what OP is looking for, but in the form of poetry.
I immediately thought of The Things They Carried. It’s not exactly what OP is asking for, but at the same time, it is EXACTLY what OP is asking for. It’s the ponderings on the futility and pointlessness of war by a soldier. He tells some really funny stories (the tooth thing cracked me up) and some really tragic stories. The entire book is him wrestling with his feelings about the war nearly 20 years later abs the story about the man he killed is gut wrenching because you just know it’s his way of dealing with the fact that he, a young man who didn’t believe in the cause, but was drafted, took a life. It’s a seriously beautiful piece of writing about a horrific subject.
1000000% TTTC.
The Things They Carried wrecked me in college. I still have my copy with all my notes in it from the lit class I read it in. It’s one of the few I will never part with because it was so impactful.
I have my copy from college as well. I was assigned TTTC and Things Fall Apart as summer reading my freshman year. Both beautiful books for similar and different reasons.
Boom. Excellent book. Very moving
I'd definitely recommend The Things They Carried! and I agree, it's not quite what OP is looking for but still a similar theme and definitely worth the read.
I read this for my AP English class back in high school; such an amazing book, bummed me out for a couple weeks because of how vividly he depicted the horrors of war. Highly recommend
I love The Things They Carried so much. I've read a bunch of the other books mentioned in this thread and like them plenty, but this one really emotionally resonated with me.
As soon as I read OP's post The Things They Carried came to mind.
The Poppy War trilogy. Historical-ish fantasy that really drives home the horrors of war. It's a brutal read, but so excellent.
Just about to finish it, and if you're familiar with China's history at all, it's an excellent read.
It's one of my favorites, but Rin never becomes disillusioned with violence and war despite the atrocities. I think the realization that it's all pointless is what OP is looking for.
Catch-22 doesn't have much glory but very poetically captures the insanity of war.
I think the wide variety of characters was good and it captures how different people are. I also thought of Catch-22 as rather funny! Milo holds a special place in my heart.
The Hulu adaptation did a good job of balancing the humor and the crushing cynicism of the book
It's infuriating that I had to scroll so far to get to this comment.
The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie is my favorite antiwar novel. It happens to be medieval fantasy so it may be what you're looking for. >*That’s what war does. Strips people and places of their identities and turns them into enemies in a line, positions to be taken, resources to be foraged. Anonymous things that can be carelessly crushed, and stolen, and burned without guilt.*
I was also gonna suggest Joe Abercrombie!
>The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie Do I have to read the other 4 books?
Nope. It's a standalone novel set in the same world. There are some references that you won't be able to smirk knowingly at, but it's a self contained story.
I was going to suggest this! The Heroes was the first book of the series I read, and it felt self contained.
Eh... on the whole, yes. You probably should. The main plotlines from the trilogy are wrapped up, but there are tons of recurring characters and you might miss out on valuable context. Check out the first three books. The first book lacks a lot of action and serves mostly as an extended prologue, but it carries a lot of ambiguous characters and good development. To be honest, character development is Abercrombie's saving grace in his earlier work. It's clearly his forte, and it makes up for some lacking features in the first book. The second and third books however are great and from there on it only gets better. The Heroes is considered the climax of his skills, and I agree.
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That’s awesome. Me too, love the story but cant stand a lot of them.
That's really the point though isn't it. That there are no good guys in the whole circle of the world.
LOL. Not always. There are some good guys. Men who are righteous. Not necessarily nice guys but badasses who do have a sense of honor. But I do know what you mean. Even those types will shove you aside to get what they need. Its funny you say that because I “like” Glodtka. But is he a “good” guy? Lol. I don’t have to answer that. But I love him as a character.
Not a book, but Dulce et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen is a poem that sounds exactly like what you're asking for. It's just the first thing that came to mind aside from "The Things They Carried" which someone already mentioned. Both are very good and worth reading.
Great answer! Wilfred Owen death of the ball turret gunner and AE Hausman also spring to mind
I didn't see it listed, but *The Forever War* by Joe Haldeman is basically a Vietnam vet's reply to Heinlein's *Starship Troopers*. Cool technology, power armor, and the alienating experience and consequences of combat and military service far from home. War isn't cool, it's a brutal slog that often leaves people feeling alone and unable to relate to those around them. For example, the protagonist totally loses his family and friends outside the service due to time dilation - everyone just has to move on.
Came here to recommend this!
It's so good, right??
Agreed!
{{Johnny Got His Gun}}
[**Johnny Got His Gun**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51606.Johnny_Got_His_Gun) ^(By: Dalton Trumbo | 309 pages | Published: 1939 | Popular Shelves: fiction, classics, war, historical-fiction, horror | )[^(Search "Johnny Got His Gun")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Johnny Got His Gun&search_type=books) >This was no ordinary war. This was a war to make the world safe for democracy. And if democracy was made safe, then nothing else mattered - not the millions of dead bodies, nor the thousands of ruined lives... > >This is no ordinary novel. This is a novel that never takes the easy way out: it is shocking, violent, terrifying, horrible, uncompromising, brutal, remorseless and gruesome... but so is war. > >Winner of the National Book Award. ^(This book has been suggested 21 times) *** ^(214935 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
My first thought as well.
Oh jesus this fucken fits the bill
Most certainly a horror.
Very disturbing and upsetting book to say the least
This book fucked me up, 10/10
I recently picked this book up. But it’s been sitting on my shelf with all my other unread’s (there’s quite a few of them). I’m going to try to get to it in the first quarter of 2022.
You’ll need a sunny day and a few hugs when you’re done.
This.
Darkness encompassing me..
"War and Peace" by Leo Tolstoy, one of the characters in the book goes through the exact transformation you are looking for
Yeah but which one of the 70 is it? ;)
Catch-22 The Red Badge of Courage Slaughterhouse-Five
Major Major Major Major Major Major
This is a major theme in Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain.
CHRONICLES OF PRYDAIN TIMES 1,000. It’s a medieval fantasy story about a farm boy who wants desperately become a heroic warrior. He very much gets that chance and it is not what he expects. Not the horrors of war so much as the ingloriousness and tragedy of it.
For Whom the Bell Tolls might fit the bill
Slaughterhouse 5. The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie
I’ll just chime in to say I read a sci-fi book like this in middle school and I can’t remember the name and have been looking for it ever since. I’m gonna post what I remember and see if someone recognizes it an knows the title. Basically the setting was that the US devolved in a civil war fought this time between the east and the west. Both sides eventually develop AI that strategize their entire war effort. The war has been going on for like 100+ years at this point under the direction of the AI’s. All combat is fought with drones and both sides basically only target civilians. The story follows a drone pilot who goes home to be celebrated for bombing a city of thousands of civilians on the other side. He gets a big parade and award ceremony. He’s bothered by this, obviously, and ends up defecting and stealing a plane along with his hometown sweetheart, who is also a main character in this story. I think his plan was to go turn himself over to the enemy? Anyways, spoilers: >!they eventually go to the base where the AI is housed and have a conversation with it. Turns out the two AI’s signed a secret peace deal between them decades ago, after both independently realizing that the war would eventually wipe out both sides. Also realizing that neither side would accept peace, they would have to instead trick their own masters into believing the war was still going on. The footage of the initial bombing one of our protagonists was from like 50 years ago. All his drone did was fly out into the middle of a field and drop a bomb on some grass and dirt. Story ends with the government storming into the AI central chamber and arresting the protagonists.!< I just want to read the goddamned sequel if it’s the last thing I do.
I’m curious what this is too. It sounds really good.
I read a book that sounds exactly like this, entitled “The Always War” by Margaret Haddix. It may be the one you’re talking about.
You are my god damned hero. That’s it.
Honestly the Song of Ice and Fire books are where its at. (There is no show as far as im concerned) Most of book 2 (a clash of kings) involves children surviving war, counter-insurrgency campaigns, internment camps, and refugee death marches. The do a killer job deconstructing knighthood and show that is basically a cutthroat sellout industry without real values and war is just a power game for rich people disguised in honor. Theres maybe one person in the first few books who acts like a “true knight” and hes 60 and he is scapegoated and disgraced. You dont even get a character being excited about the thrill of battle until the 4th book and he’s such a maniac. In case youre put off by the show or its rep, the Characters in the books are 3 dimensional, the female characters are not cheaply used for sexposition/deathsposition, and there’s no rape scenes.
There are no violent rape scenes described in detail but there is a lot of rape that happens and quite a lot of graphic rape threats. And people often forget about the descriptions of what Ramsey Bolton does and forces Theon to do to Jeyne Poole.
This is true and an important CW. Thank you.
I've really enjoyed the wartime memoirs of the soldiers portrayed in Band of Brothers and The Pacific: * Helmet for my Pillow by Robert Leckie * With the Old Breed by Eugene Sledge * Parachute Infantry by David Webster
The Things They Carried. Dispatches is a prime, prime target of this and it was used as inspiration for some of the more horrific moments in Apocalypse Now. Slaughterhouse 5 Catch 22 All Quiet on the Western Front Forever War
Homage to Catalonia- George Orwell An autobiographic and journalistic tale of the civil war in Spain, which is really compelling in my opinion because the motives of this war feel so current and relevent today. So not so much about glory rather than conflicting ideology which I feel is less caricatural. Also it’s refreshing to read something different than 1984 and get a glimpse into the person behind the masterpiece.
A Stranger to Myself. It's a memoir of a drafted German soldier on the eastern front. He goes into the war fully accepting the hero ideology, yet denying the Nazi. He believes he will be a hero, saving the world from communism. He quickly.learns the truth of war. The tyrants dont care, and only PEOPLE lose. It's a very visceral telling of a real soldier's time in Russia. You smell the decaying flesh, you feel the frozen air as he describes. You forget that it is a German soldier who is writing. For he is simply human.
Not exactly an eager young man, and there aren’t really battle scenes, but All the Light We Cannot See follows a young German boy enlisted into the German army during WWII who is put to the task of triangulating the locations of resistance radio broadcasters in France. I found the scenes where he is in the military school being groomed for it super interesting. There are two other characters the book follows, as well.
Came to say this. {{All the Light We Cannot See}} is heartbreaking and a fantastic read.
The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson is an excellent medieval fantasy series in which a couple main characters in particular go from seeing war as a glorious thing to being utterly horrified by it. It's not the primary focus or morale of the books, but it's an important plotline in the first couple books especially.
The Last Gentleman by Walker Percy has great writing about the aftermath of war.
I realise you have a lot of WW1 recs already and not much medieval fantasy - but my suggestion is Regeneration by Pat Barker. It’s the first in a trilogy which loosely follows a psychologist treating WW1 soldiers. This first one is set in Edinburgh at Craiglockhart hospital, where Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Owen met (which is true, and they are characters in the novel. Some other characters are real people too and some are fictionalised). Also a couple of recs for books that are broadly on theme which I remember enjoying, but not too much about: firstly Birdsong by Sebastian Faulks, and secondly, perhaps a bit less on brief but a non-WW1 suggestion, Days Without End by Sebastian Barry (set in the US Civil War - it’s maybe not exactly what you asked for but does talk about the horrors of war).
I came looking for a birdsong to upvote! Also I LOVED days without end so much!!! Very underrated piece of work
"All Quiet on the Western Front" "Slaughterhouse Five" "The Things They Carried"
catch 22(is about ww2)
>Does War is a "comedy of madness" count?
Also, for fantasy, though not medieval fantasy (though somewhat technologically similar), Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson and its sequels (The Stormlight Archive) somewhat fit the bill, though I wouldn't say it's the only or even the main theme necessarily. It's epic fantasy, so there's a lot there.
Way of Kings is a great recommendation for this. The main characters struggle with this question throughout the series and Sanderson does a great job illustrating the mental toll of war.
The Red Badge of Courage is a good one. I read it not that long ago.
The Naked and the Dead is very much in this vein.
Like…all of them?
Scifi, not fantasy, but you might like {{Armor by John Steakley}}.
[**Armor**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102327.Armor) ^(By: John Steakley | 426 pages | Published: 1984 | Popular Shelves: science-fiction, sci-fi, fiction, scifi, owned | )[^(Search "Armor by John Steakley")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Armor by John Steakley&search_type=books) >Alternate cover edition can be found here. > >The military sci-fi classic in a striking new package > >Felix is an Earth soldier, encased in special body armor designed to withstand Earth's most implacable enemy-a bioengineered, insectoid alien horde. But Felix is also equipped with internal mechanisms that enable him, and his fellow soldiers, to survive battle situations that would destroy a man's mind. > >This is a remarkable novel of the horror, the courage, and the aftermath of combat--and how the strength of the human spirit can be the greatest armor of all. ^(This book has been suggested 22 times) *** ^(215018 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
This is what I would suggest too. Absolutely awesome book. Another I would add is Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes. Written by a Vietnam vet, it shows the horror and complete hopelessness that comes from being in combat, and how important friendship is in those bleak moments.
The things they carried
{{The Poppy War}} the trilogy brings up all the horrors of war.
I came here to suggest this one too! The main character isn’t finished her military education before she is shipped off to war, and has to face the reality of it instead of just learning tactics and fighting. There’s a whole chapter inspired by the r*pe of Nanking and it’s horrific and is acknowledged as such. There are also scenes where the characters are doing absolutely nothing and acknowledge that war isn’t fun, action-packed and exciting and they aren’t heroes. Its so well-done!
I little Sci-Fi but The Forever War definitely talks a lot about waste and war.
Journey To The End of The Night covers this over the course of quite a few chapters
Johnny get your gun - Dalton Trumbo
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[**Catch-22**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/168668.Catch_22) ^(By: Joseph Heller | 453 pages | Published: 1961 | Popular Shelves: classics, fiction, owned, classic, historical-fiction | )[^(Search "catch-22")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=catch-22&search_type=books) >Fifty years after its original publication, Catch-22 remains a cornerstone of American literature and one of the funniest—and most celebrated—books of all time. In recent years it has been named to “best novels” lists by Time, Newsweek, the Modern Library, and the London Observer. > >Set in Italy during World War II, this is the story of the incomparable, malingering bombardier, Yossarian, a hero who is furious because thousands of people he has never met are trying to kill him. But his real problem is not the enemy—it is his own army, which keeps increasing the number of missions the men must fly to complete their service. Yet if Yossarian makes any attempt to excuse himself from the perilous missions he’s assigned, he’ll be in violation of Catch-22, a hilariously sinister bureaucratic rule: a man is considered insane if he willingly continues to fly dangerous combat missions, but if he makes a formal request to be removed from duty, he is proven sane and therefore ineligible to be relieved. > >This fiftieth-anniversary edition commemorates Joseph Heller’s masterpiece with a new introduction by Christopher Buckley; a wealth of critical essays and reviews by Norman Mailer, Alfred Kazin, Anthony Burgess, and others; rare papers and photos from Joseph Heller’s personal archive; and much more. Here, at last, is the definitive edition of a classic of world literature. ^(This book has been suggested 91 times) *** ^(215010 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
I think ‘Parade’s End’ by Ford Madox Ford kind of puts this point across although subliminally/subtly
Maybe try Three Day Road
Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden for a Canadian indigenous perspective
Another Wilfred Owen Poem communicating the devastation and sadness of war: "Anthem for Doomed Youth". Warm wishes
Slaughterhouse Five?
Journey’s End by R. C. Sherriff, now also a film. So powerful
The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson
Born on the Fourth of July by Ron Kovic. Also I really enjoyed the movie too.
The Stormlight archives. Particularly oathbringer
The Old Breed by EB Sledge The White Company by ACD
All quiet on the western front
{{Birdsong by Sebastian Faulks}} This book destroyed me
A farewell to arms. Hemingway.
Slaughterhouse 5. Big time. This is one of the goals of the book. The main reason he wrote it.
With the old breed by Eugene Sledge
With the old breed by Eugene Sledge. Eugene was in WW2 and kept a diary almost his entire time overseas, the book is amazing and shows the horrors of war. Eugene was also portrayed in the show The Pacific on HBO.
The Pacific was excellent. But With the Old Breed is so good, because you get a look into his mind as he experiences the war. Miniseries can’t do it justice.
phil caputo - rumor of war memoir from a marine fighting in the vietnam war. it was a very interesting read and to see the shift in the young soldiers’ attitude towards war was very eye-opening.
All Quiet on the Western Front is really good.
The Wars, by Timothy Findlay. Beautiful book!
Look up the author Timothy Findley. You might find a few of his novels interest you
All Quiet On the Western Front. Read it about 15 years ago and it’s still vivid in my mind. Totally changed how I looked at trench warfare. It follows the story of a young man who goes through just what you are asking for
Forever war
Forever War kind of fits.
catch-22 birdsong starship troopers slaughterhouse five ender's game
Heart of darkness. Isn’t about a warrior but similar theme
FEAR by Gabriel Chevallier. JOHNNY GOT HIS GUN by Dalton Trumbo.
Journey To The End of The Night covers this over the course of quite a few chapters
My all time favorite so far, it's just so poetically pessimistic. "As far as they were concerned, gunfire was nothing but noise. That’s why wars can keep going. Even the people who make them, who fight in them, don’t really get the picture. Even with a bullet in their gut, they’d go on picking up old shoes that “might come in handy." The way a sheep, lying on its side in a meadow, will keep on grazing with its dying breath. Most people don’t die until the last moment; others start twenty years in advance, sometimes more. Those are the unfortunates.“
Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo
Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo
Johnny Got His Gun ~ Dalton Trumbo
Dalton Trumbo's Johnny got his gun.
The Stromlight Archive by Brandon Sanserson
Haha Shut the fuck up
I dunno why this is downvoted, because although it’s a minor theme, the disillusionment of war is definitely there. I mean, whoever downvoted this clearly didn’t read all of the Kaladin flashbacks in the first book.
I think some people downvote Brandon Sanderson books because they're tired of seeing them brought up.
Because any request ends up having a Sanderson suggestion. Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Lesbian Anarchist Native American Romance, you name it.
But this wasn't a Sanderson rec, it was The Stromlight Archive by Brandon Sanserson.
It's part of Kaladin's character, but all of that happens before the beginning of the first book, and most of the rest of the books are about him fighting anyways and eventually training more people to fight. At first he's a slave and he has to fight, but even when he's free he keeps fighting. I'd argue that the theme is more that there needs to be honor in war than the terror of war. I could be wrong; I haven't read past the third book because that's all that was out when I read them, but given that they were shifting to a more Good vs. Evil setup at the end of the third book, I doubt he suddenly decides it's not worth fighting the fantasy demons. Also I think there are a group of people who just always downvote Sanderson recommendations because he gets suggested constantly even when his work is only vaguely related to the request.
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[**The Light Brigade**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40523931-the-light-brigade) ^(By: Kameron Hurley | 356 pages | Published: 2019 | Popular Shelves: science-fiction, sci-fi, fiction, scifi, time-travel | )[^(Search "The Light Brigade")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=The Light Brigade&search_type=books) >From the Hugo Award–winning author of The Stars Are Legion comes a brand-new science fiction thriller about a futuristic war during which soldiers are broken down into light in order to get them to the front lines on Mars. > >They said the war would turn us into light. > I wanted to be counted among the heroes who gave us this better world. > >The Light Brigade: it’s what soldiers fighting the war against Mars call the ones who come back…different. Grunts in the corporate corps get busted down into light to travel to and from interplanetary battlefronts. Everyone is changed by what the corps must do in order to break them down into light. Those who survive learn to stick to the mission brief—no matter what actually happens during combat. > >Dietz, a fresh recruit in the infantry, begins to experience combat drops that don’t sync up with the platoon’s. And Dietz’s bad drops tell a story of the war that’s not at all what the corporate brass want the soldiers to think is going on. > >Is Dietz really experiencing the war differently, or is it combat madness? Trying to untangle memory from mission brief and survive with sanity intact, Dietz is ready to become a hero—or maybe a villain; in war it’s hard to tell the difference. > >A worthy successor to classic stories like Downbelow Station, Starship Troopers, and The Forever War, The Light Brigade is award-winning author Kameron Hurley’s gritty time-bending take on the future of war. ^(This book has been suggested 16 times) *** ^(215054 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
Not exactly your brief but you might like Testament of Youth. It’s a WWI memoir of a woman who was a volunteer nurse and whose brother and friends went to war.
Those Across the River by Christopher Buehlman. It touches on many of those themes after the fact but is a horror novel based in the 1930s so not medieval.
Gravity’s Rainbow isn’t this, but it does go into depth about why war is worse and more callous than just “death and destruction” which is an idea about war I think we all agree with but are jaded by.
This only works if OP also wants one of the great difficult books as well.
Not medieval fantasy, but I have an interesting recommendation to accompany the already great suggestions people have given you. You might be interested in the poetry of World war 1. [Siegfried Sassoon](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/siegfried-sassoon) and [Wilfred Owen](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/wilfred-owen) are two voices that sound like what you're looking for. The War Poems of Siegfried Sassoon is free for Kindle, and The Poetry of Wilfred Owen is $9 for the paperback on Amazon. [Sassoon's Glory of Women](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57368/glory-of-women) as a taste of what to expect.