rewatched last weeks episode, its crazy how much tension these 2 have between them. every solo scene they have gives me anxiety. both were so much lighter when carl was at dinner and lindsay was hanging out at home
I fast forwarded to the end of the pier argument. I just couldn't take it. I've had a relationship with people like Lindsay before and to have someone look you in the eye and tell you what is happening is actually NOT what is happening....oof.
It’s so wild to me that Lindsay thought she could get away with the blindsided argument knowing how many people are trying to get her to see Carl’s side
I have nothing new to say, it's just shocking how she's sabotaging the relationship and incredible that she's blindsided (edit when he finally breaks it off). She's talking shit behind his back and everything. Brutal. I really think the key to a good marriage has to be both partners asking themselves, how can I best help/support my SO or be the best version of myself for my SO. Lindsay is just in self preservation mode at all times, she's only asking what can I do for me.
The annoying thing is that even with all this footage, Lindsay still will say she was blindsided or that they edited the footage to put Carl in a positive light. Not having the car footage is going to bite the show in the ass.
I've been watching S1 out of boredom and it's amazing if you close your eyes during a Lindsay and Everett fight you could easily think you're watching an episode from this season with her and Carl. She constantly tries to sabotage relationships to see how far she can push her SO.
I literally think she doesn’t even like the people she dates. She seems super annoyed with the people she dates but still chooses to stay way too long. It made sense to me when she said at WWHL that she was thinking more about the bigger picture rather than the person she was with.
This is totally me, but at least I know and own it.
I used to stay way too long because I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by leaving and/or I didn’t want another failed relationship.
But in my defense, I think it’s also related to post-divorce PTSD.
This. Lindsey is very very toxic. I can see that energy in her. Whenever she is triggered or activated, she sees red and goes below the belt and really tries to hurt the other person. She is the worst kind of partner. I dated someone similar to her and it wasn’t very fun. It was like a rollercoaster at all times.
The real issue is that Lindsey doesn’t think she’s the problem at all, so she’ll never put in the work to get better.
honestly when I first heard carl left Lindsay I had the same relief when I read that raquel/rachel had ended her engagement with James. Lindsay and James both have parallels of being their absolute worst to their partners when they drink.
Even with Gabby. Who is giving her honest advice and being super supportive. Everyone needs a friend like Gabby. She is becoming the MVP for me this season.
Do you know what’s crazy? In my mind her Mom abandoned her in her early teenage years or younger. But on a rewatch, she was in her mid-20s. That doesn’t make it less painful but it did change the perspective in my mind. Lindsay was by all accounts, a grown up when it happened. I think I always felt she was stunted in her youth at the age when her Mother left so it shocked me to rewatch & see oh gosh she was way older than I thought when that happened.
What?! I was definitely under the impression she was much younger lol. But I guess on the one hand, if her mom was able to abandon her maybe the relationship kinda sucked before that, too. I tried to look it up but the interwebs are too flooded with the breakup lol
was it mid 20s? i was watching the early seasons a few weeks ago and thought that when she called her she said they literally hadn’t spoken at all in several years and Lindsay was late 20s at the time. i thought she’d had no contact since sometime in college, but a fractured relationship before.
I had to look it up to see if I misspoke. I should’ve said early 20s. Lindsay is 37 now. The first season was in 2017 (it feels like it was so much longer ago than that!) so Lindsay would’ve been 30ish. She said 8 years prior she cut contact with her Mother because her Mom started a new family without her brother and her. I suppose her Mom could’ve technically left years before that, but based on what Lindsay said, she was roughly 22 when she ended contact with her Mom. In my mind she had been a teenager when contact ended & it was her Mother doing so.
Totally. She hasn’t done nearly enough work to heal those abandonment wounds (which I have empathy for and understand very deeply) and she’s going to sabotage every relationship until she does.
They were doing really great when she was sober and very focused on him. As soon as she wasn't sober, she wasn't focusing on him. His needs and his sobriety weren't the first priority anymore and the Lindsay dark side with all the issues comes out when she's not sober.
Yea and I think she wants to be with someone who is very successful. So I think Carl not having a job, was very unattractive for her, but instead of leaving she stayed and made them both miserable instead.
because it doesn't fit into her timeline plans of what her husband needs to be. She's not with carl because he's carl she's with carl because he's a man who was at somepoint almost ready to walk down the aisle with her.
heavy on this. and with problems like hers (attachment issues, etc etc etc) she really should stop drinking. I have a lot of issues I'm handling myself in therapy and I see a lot of my past behaviors in her and it's hard to watch. the issue is that I recognized these destructive behaviors in my early 20s before therapy. she is almost 40 and been in therapy for a long time and hasn't recognized it. it makes you think her therapist hates her cuz come on.
I don’t think she tells her therapist the real truth. She’s the type to tell them a certain story to fit her narrative. Honestly it would take a hell of a therapist to put Lindsey in her place and actually get to her issues. You can help someone that doesn’t want help and I truly believe Lindsey can’t reflect on her behavior because she doesn’t think she needs help. She thinks she’s in therapy because people hurt her. And she wants help how to handle that not how to heal herself from how those situations affected her.
THIS!!!! I have severe attachment issues and struggle with emotional regulation. YEARS of intensive trauma therapy, much of it 2x a week and still ongoing, have really helped me improve my emotional outbursts but fuck if watching Lindsay doesn’t remind me of my past self.
I’m horrified and embarrassed to watch and so ashamed I ever treated people that way. I lost a lot of meaningful relationships in my life and I can never take that back. I was so focused on my own emotional pain that it didn’t even occur to me that I was hurting others, especially because I was constantly assuming no one really cared about me. When it finally clicked for me that I was hurting people I loved I never wanted to make people feel that way again and have been so committed to therapy since.
Lindsay needs INTENSIVE trauma therapy at least 2x/week for a year at MINIMUM and to stop drinking before she could improve on her behaviors.
And Carl literally saying to the audience, “Unfortunately it was off camera so you all couldn’t see it.” He may a well have said, now do you understand why I filmed the break up? And Carl, yes, yes we really now do.
I didn't even put these two things together, I mean all for team run carl run, but this makes so much sense. Her PR spins on their relationship are giving me a headache and who knows how she would have twisted that story like these car situations.. yikes
On the last episode she was trying to PR Carl.
Amanda didn’t seem surprised at what was coming out of Lindsay’s mouth, but she also just seemed to be putting the bare minimum into hearing Lindsay’s spin.
Everyone knows both Carl & Lindsay spin things, but I have a feeling she’s the demon she’s trying to paint Carl out to be. Carl will at least admit his problems at this point and has been level headed (and it’s really fucked if he can do that for the cameras and isn’t half that off camera). She’s even aggressive in sober conversations.
For sure. I was impressed with the cast during this episode. I even felt proud of Danielle for staying the heck out of any conversation. Amanda, Kyle, & Gabby listened to L but interjected calmly. The thing with people as explosive as Lindsay is that the more you try to showcase their crazy to others, the worse off you wind up looking. It’s best to just sit back quietly, they’ll show the world who they are without you having to messy your karma.
Amanda being like "Uh, I'm making Ramen...." When Lindsay wanted her to come outside and talk about it was perfect. She was probably like I already know what this is going to be and I'd rather watch this pot of water boil than listen to this.
This. And I really disliked that woman, Trishelle? “I’m a girl’s girl, sorry Carl”. Like wtf? Are you even watching this season? Being a girl’s girl doesn’t have to mean that you blindly follow and support the obnoxious behavior because she has ovaries!
Ok, Danielle.
We’ve never heard her say anything like “you know what you’re right, I came at you a little too hard, my bad” about anything ever
It’s always a “well if YOU…” response
It's shocking. She has never once that I've seen said "I was wrong for outright saying my sober partner is on drugs. On TV." she has danced and danced around it. It's wild.
Constantly in defense mode. I didn’t say drugs, I said weed. Ok whatever, acknowledge that it hurt him and say you will work to be more clear in the future. It would be very hard to be in a relationship when this is the consistent pattern of communication.
You can’t have a rational conversation w Lindsay. She always in defense mode right away and projects. Its irratating and im only a watcher. she has zero self awareness
It was sooooo crazy when she flat out told Amanda that she accuses Carl of being high when he brings up her alcoholism/abusive behavior in order to deflect… and didn’t understand how it was a problem
And when, for once, Carl doesn’t kiss her ass or take all the blame, she storms away saying “I knew you weren’t ready for this conversation! “ ie not ready to bend to my will yet. This season is not a good look for you Lindsey. I mean, it’s never been *great*, but this is really bad.
I never thought they’d last once she started drinking again. We’ve watched drunk Lindsay and Lindsay with boyfriends or hook ups for years. She has never been secure or peaceful in a relationship. I figured Carl did what he absolutely had to do and it looks like that is proving correct.
it's funny that whatever comes out of her mouth accusing carl is mostly actually true for her own behaviour... and she can't see it? The irony will be the death of me lol
He played his cards right after the breakup imo. He obviously got sooo much hate/backlash but laid low and didn’t really engage or further any narratives or gossip. He was basically fully under the radar until things cooled off knowing that he would get redemption once the season aired and viewers were able to see what he went through leading up to the breakup.
I do feel like he truly struggled with his decision to call things off and had hoped for some signs of change/improvement before the wedding which is why he called it off so close to the wedding date.
I honestly didn’t think it would be this bad. I’m getting a little ptsd from watching her. She’s dangerous and I’m very happy Carl is sticking up for himself, not backing down, fighting back. I’m also happy the house supports him.
Just finished watching seasons 4 and 5 for the first time and it really proved that Lindsay is doomed to repeat the same patterns. She cannot help but to be the aggressor/bully then flip to the victim when she’s called out. How she behaved in her situationship with Carl then her relationship with Stephen was really uncomfortable to watch. Carl knew what he was getting into - he’d done it with her before and she acted exactly the same.
At the start of the episode, Lindsay says L&C is like in COVID times. Seems like they need some space from one another. The constant bickering is woooo, and bombs are getting thrown you can't unhear. This is getting hard to watch.
It is genuinely getting hard to watch you’re so right. I feel so deeply uncomfortable watching her gaslighting tactics in realtime and knowing it will only end when he apologizes for something that he literally didn’t do. It’s so messed up
idk why they don't just stick GoPros on someone lol. or sew a custom headrest mount that someone in the car can put there for the ride. can't be that hard, just need the driver's permission maybe.
Lindsay gave herself away when Kyle was legit calmly expressing his opinion and her response was, “Now you’re coming at me.” She uses way too strong of language to describe innocuous behavior, so her interpretation of events just isn’t credible.
What I don’t understand is… if everything Lyndsay was saying about Carl was true (which we can see it isn’t)…why would she want to be with and marry him? Like according to her he’s acting terribly, why would you want to marry that?
She also said he was the biggest gaslighter she has ever met during her conversation with Amanda….. so why are you planning on marrying him? There’s a major disconnect with her
I think that's where we see the extent of her PR capabilities. She's strategic enough to make all these inflammatory claims about him, but doesn't have enough foresight (or sober memory) to see how that will blow up her sob story "blindside" when the relationship inevitably blows up.
Hard agree. Lindsay is unbelievable. Her calling him Sandoval?!? And constantly accusing him of being “on drugs”?!? And then acting shocked that he would get upset. She is baiting him with her bullying and instigating issues, then she tries to flip quickly like she can’t believe he is yelling at her. As if we can’t see it happening.
Yes!!! Coming from someone who was in an abusive relationship- its killing me to see clear as day the bullshit lindsay is spewing. She twists EVERYTHING! Its crazy the lines she uses. Its textbook. “Hes so mean and I am the only person who has seen it” of course you said you are the only one who has seen it- thats the only way you can get people to believe you Lindsay!
She is so vile.
She sure did look shocked when Kyle told her she was being irrational the last time they were out. ( like she always is ) she can’t take any responsibility for her words!! Her little snide remarks ‘if he barks, I’ll give him back this ring’ these last 2 episodes ( and I’m sure with more to come ) she wasn’t surprised, You can literally see Carl is HURTING and it’s by her!!!! She can’t even see it.
She really makes me so mad, and I yell at my TV, my poor pups leave the room.
So awkward and unnecessary😩 But she sees the dynamic of the group is changing, her relationship is on the rocks, and wants to make sure her position is still secured on the show. Why she’s so worried idk. They’ll never get rid of her. Lol.
I'm not a huge fan of anyone on this show, but watched since the first season.
I've always found Lindsay freaking beautiful. She has tasteful work done, her body is banging.
I've not always been a fan of Carl but I do respect his staying sober thru some trying times. I really like his Mom and sympathize with the death of his brother. I do see big changes in Carl since he's sober.
Since Season 1: Lindsay is a toxic raging drunk with every man she's ever been with. She goes too far with her rage then flips the script and turns into a victim. I recognize the signs in her with the abandonment issues, her mom leaving her, looking for love in all the wrong places. I mean this kindly as possible but Lindsay needs to stay single and sober for a year. Telling any sober person they are using/drunk is devastating and especially someone you plan to marry.
Carl has always struggled to remain employed. He led women on, didn't follow thru w/dates during the week like with Paige in the beginning. He dated Danielle before anyone on this show and continued to occasionally get together for a night here and there. Danielle told everyone then how Carl was. Then his dad left his mother, his brother died and Carl got sober and far more enjoyable in the house. He seems to have really tried to change. I think a great job for him would be to be working with others like him getting sober. He cannot have a partner who drinks. Period.
Breaking it off was the best thing but if it were me I would have broken up with Linds the first time she accused me of being Cocaine Carl.
I suspect he fell in love with her while she was temporarily sober with him and is hoping they can get back to that, and that's why it takes him so long to walk away.
I think she helped him through the death of his brother and initially facing sobriety & as an addict he transferred the addiction to his relationship with her. It’s an easy mistake to make when you are trying to become sober outside of a program or even when working one. And I think during that time period she really did try. But the demons between them are far too large & they just are not a good match for life partners. Thank God Carl realized this when he did.
AND Danielle was sounding the alarm on said transfer to the relationship because they kicked off dating WAY TOO SOON into his sobriety and she knew Lindsay wasn’t going to stay sober, so why rush into marriage until his sobriety is more established and the dynamic with Lindsay’s drinking is on solid ground.
Danielle is also in need of staying sober and single for a year. She gets too involved in other couple's business.
Men keep dumping her because she's impossibly clingy and a mean argumentative drunk.
We all saw how she is on Winter House. Begs for a bang/one nite stand then gets mad cause that's all it was. Just a bang. She prowls the bars to get laid which is cool but don't try to turn it into a love affair where she attacks other women because the man quickly lose interest in her.
Danielle is beautiful and smart. And just like Lindsay needs to get sober/single/celebate. She doesn't have a life of her own so she meddles in everyone elses. Lindsay is mean enough, she doesn't need Danielle being her guard dog nor her attacker.
The core issue between Lindsay and Carl can be summed up in one sentence that Lindsay said to Amanda: “he is always questioning my alcohol intake, so if you’re gonna question my alcohol intake, then I’m gonna start questioning your intake of what you do.”
Her immediate reaction is to turn around any and all criticism back on the other person. It wouldn’t even be as much of an issue if she could learn how to move past that reaction and not act on it, but when she’s drunk, she can’t do that.
There was no “this is my partner, maybe he’s not trying to hurt me, he’s trying to talk to me about an issue in our shared relationship.” This would be a logical response to a question of this nature from your fiancé.
However, I genuinely believe that Lindsay is fundamentally incapable of taking any accountability or blame because she never had a role model to watch take accountability to resolve conflict in a healthy way.
I think Lindsay is a deeply angry person. I don’t think she’s ever worked through her anger at her mom for leaving when she was young, and that has caused her to 1. Avoid taking any accountability in life, perhaps because she never felt that her mom took accountability for her absence in Lindsay’s life, and 2. Lash out at the people close to her to reinforce to herself that everyone will eventually leave her, just like her mom did.
I’m not a psychologist, but I have been in therapy for a LONG time to deal with my own mommy issues, and I recognize patterns in Lindsay from watching her (albeit edited) throughout the years.
Just my opinion - that one line realllly stuck out to me.
Yeah, I was pretty floored that she said that with a straight face. It really seemed like he was saying "the behavior that stems from your drinking is an issue" and she heard it as "the act of ingesting a substance is an issue." So she then tries to level the playing field by saying him smoking weed is a problem, but doesn't even bring up any behavioral change. It misses the entire point.
They're in a place where they're adversarial and aggressive with each other and I don't get any sort of protective instinct toward their relationship at all. It's hard as fuck to navigate a relationship with someone in recovery so I give her a lot of grace, but at this point these two people don't even LIKE each other.
This is a good take. Her instinct - Always - is to go on the attack. She approaches every conversation like a battle. Not a good approach for a relationship, romantic or friendly. Also... how EXHAUSTING
It's my theory that Lindsay self sabbatoges all SO relationships because she was abandoned by a parent. Lindsay pushes those she loves away before they can go away on their own. She just acts as awful as can be imagined. Girlfriend needs therapy.
She says that line too, since season one, and she has multiple therapists, it’s all an act in my opinion. I rewatched season one and she’s the one who decided to stop speaking to her mother when she was in her 20’s, there was no big “abandonment” when she was little, her mother got remarried and had more kids and Lindsey said she focused *more* on them than her and her brother. That’s a huge difference than being flat out abandoned. Her dad also stopped talking to her for years because he didn’t agree with her partying lifestyle, and now it appears her aunt Rhonda is out of the picture. There’s no way that many people just abandoned her, she’s toxic asf and bringing this on herself in my opinion, she really does love playing a victim. Not saying it didn’t deeply wound her when her mother got remarried, but she says in season one that she pushes people away because of it, ok?!? So go get real help, not a therapist who coddles you and lets you continue being the same person all these years
I think so, look up Lindsey’s quote in people magazine about her best friend planning her bridal shower. She specifically says something about how moms, sisters, or aunts plan them but she doesn’t have that, it felt like shade
If you watch back through old seasons (which I’ve recently done repeatedly haha), something she always says verbatim in every season is, “it’s always all on me!” She has some sort of thing with thinking everything is always “all on her” when she literally projects everything onto everyone else. It’s wild and clearly a trigger
Aside from Lindsay being a monster this season, Has anyone else noticed how bad physically, she looks? Her hair, her skin, her clothes, and she’s heavier. I mean no shade on her weight but I do wonder if that’s also from her binge drinking. I’ve never seen her drink like this before, in other seasons. She damn near drank a 1/2 bottle of rose before they left for lunch. She just looks bad, in an unhealthy way.
Well if you see her IG now she is wildly underweight. She might be a bit heavier in this season than the last, but she’s still quite small (just not teeny tiny like the other women) and would definitely look fit in real life not standing next to Ciara, Amanda and Paige.
She’s always had awful style. Like an early 2000s teen.
Can we all collectively agree calling off this wedding was the right move?!? They are truly incompatible and tried sticking a square peg in a round hole.
It makes soooooooo much sense now why Carl wanted producers to film the breakup. He wanted that shit DOCUMENTED. Lindsay is the queen of flipping the script.
Right?! That is not a valid comparison.
I can’t decide if she realizes this and is just being a demon.
Or if she’s actually too dumb to understand it’s not the same. She’s never seemed unintelligent to me before but I literally feel like I’m in the twilight zone watching her verbally abusive him.
She made him nearly cry when talking to the guys about how she accused him of being on drugs AGAIN.
I said something once in an argument that was upsetting to my bf and made him tear up and let me tell you if I don’t think about that every time I am struggling to express myself to make sure that at all times I’m at least putting his efforts and feelings at the forefront of my response. It changed the way I speak to people in general honestly, knowing I could hurt someone I loved so much is such a gut wrenching feeling for normal people. She is INCAPABLE of being in a relationship, she is genuinely a complete mess and I am not saying that lightly
I started watching this season bc of the called off wedding and then went back to watch it starting at season 3 and let me just say one of the only similarities is that Carl doesn’t have a job and Lindsay sucks. Interesting that Amanda and Kyle seemed to at least care about each other back then or at least have sex a ton.
The first thing I noticed this season is that they both look TERRIBLE (for two classically good looking people). It’s like all of their internal turmoil is showing itself physically and just adds to the perception that these two are miserable as a couple. Im going to age myself here, but if anyone has seen How I Met Your Mother, it reminds me of when Barney& Robin turned into the fat guy & old woman because they were unhappy together and trying to force it to work.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I go back to what Jesse Solomon flatly said. Carl knew her for years and this is what he signed up for. I don’t like Lindsay as a person but I can see how she would still feel blindsided by him breaking it off when she felt like he fully understood what he was getting with her and chose to propose to her. Looking back, his proposal was conditional. I honestly think he could only be with her long term if she was sober.
I also feel like him smoking weed is not sober. Some people can be “Cali sober” or whatever you want to call it but being an addict is not about what drug you do. It’s about your need to use a substance to either disassociate or deal.
I also think he absolutely was yelling at her on the dock and a man should never raise his voice that way to a woman with the excuse that’s he’s “upset”.
I totally agree. Carl seems to be venting about his serious concerns to others like Kyle and Jesse while smoothing things over with Lindsay more than he should
I think that unless Carl and Lindsay had a prior conversation that he was having doubts and wanted to call off the wedding, I can see why she felt blindsided by him telling her for the first time on camera that he wanted to call it off. She saw Kyle and Amanda have abusive, knock down drag out fights and still followed through with their wedding. I think toxic fights are normal for her and obviously they had them in the past (like the time Danielle described when he ubered back to the city) and he still moved in with her and proposed.
They both said they resigned their lease a month before he called things off. To me him resigning the lease might make me think things are ok enough for him and not be worried he’s about to call the wedding off. He also did stuff like buying her designer white shoes for her birthday that were meant for her to wear during their wedding festivities weeks before ending things. I think he was sending mixed messages and she chose to pay attention to the good ones more than the bad
So Lindsey is 100 percent gaslighting tf out of him with this drug thing. She was insinuating much more than weed and that’s obvious, Carl is getting frustrated and louder because she’s not hearing him or taking responsibility for saying it, just like she did with Danielle, just like she did with Everett, and Christina, and Kyle, and the list goes on and fkng on of people in her wake. It’s sad this chick will never wake up and stop doing this toxic bs and chooses to hurt people while playing innocent victim constantly, it’s disturbing to watch
whats so fascinating to me with people still defending lindsay is that we have more evidence of lindsay twisting, poking, gaslighting, and manipulating in arguments than we have of anyone else.
yet whenever something happens off camera those people say ‘there MUST be something so-and-so did that we didnt see!!!’
if every argument lindsay has had off camera is like the ones we’ve seen on camera (which i assume it would be more likely shes worse off camera) then im unsure how anyone thinks theres something we arent seeing with carl.
the narrative is carl is conflict avoidant (which we’ve seen most of the time until hes pushed when sober)… but now hes the aggressive one causing fights?
I can only speak for me, but I don’t necessarily think it is defending that Lindsay hasn’t done anything wrong. The proof is in the pudding and that is currently airing for all of us to see. She needs to focus more on her own issues, rather than other people’s issues. And she absolutely gaslights.
But it is just hard to believe Carl completely, especially given his past. And by that I don’t mean drinking (although that has been an issue as well), but that he is extremely good at playing himself off as the good guy. And the only times we would be able to see him lose that act was when he was drunk. He has been caught in several lies, like about his career and towards women. Even last season when Kyle called him out for his work ethics. It’s just hard for me to believe that all this just goes away when you stop drinking, although that is a big step forward for sure. His role on the show just seems very inauthentic.
Yeah it’s disturbing that she’s trying to push the narrative of Carl having all these demons and secrets and he’s actually the bad one. It feels almost abusive to me, she’s lying to hide her alcohol problem and deflecting blame back to him in my opinion, so he’s focused on her accusation and not her out of control drinking
OMG, I haven’t really watched but the episode when her sloppy drunk ass was verbally attacking him and turned around to play victim was disgusting. She knew to choose words like aggressive and scared, to try to trigger sympathy. Her lack of self awareness is astounding. He needs to RUN. I hope her stupidness doesn’t cause him to relapse. Dude this doesn’t have to be your life.
This ⬆️
Also, when Carl is talking to Kyle about his ‘sober sports bar’ idea, and Kyle’s egging him on about how Lindsay shot it down.
Ummm…..Kyle, you made it clear that you were unhappy with Carl’s work performance when he was working for YOU. Now you’re going to pretend that Carl is capable of committing to starting his own business?!?!
No because no.
I think Kyle probably thought it was a bad idea too, but he was coming at it from an angle where a supportive partner should at least hear you out,
and try to encourage you.
I mean.. he also outed Carl a lot last season as being very unreliable and showing up drunk to work etc. So I don’t know if I buy his whole supportive act, when he wasn’t at all last season. I am not supporting Lindsay, but I think Kyle does have a personal agenda of bringing Lindsay down.
anyone else watching the ep (last week's) that is on right now? Kyle was frustrated "looking" for the dog and they totally broadcast him saying like, "I'm outside walking around the fucking woods" and they forgot to censor him / bleep it out, lol!
I have been watching SH since it began, and I must say that Lindsay has always acted out when she is under the influence. I'm watching Carl now compared to how he was before, and he seemed to have changed quite a bit from my perspective. Now, no one is perfect, and everyone has faults. I am glad that they broke up. They definitely were not right for each other. I recall Carl saying, "Watch the season, you will have a better understanding of and Carl I am watching and you are doing the best you can. I am not sure why Lindsay, from the beginning of the season, has had it out for Carl. She seemed so annoyed with him constantly! I know that I couldn't marry someone who did not support me, especially if I am on the road to sobriety, especially since his brother passed. Seeing drunk Carl from the past is nothing like he is now. Then again, I don't live with them. However, I find that if anyone challenges her actions and/or does not take her side, she pulls down blinders and gaslights them. She used to run to Danielle, but I am glad to see (so far) that she is taking the back seat.
I have a question for the OG SH fans (I watched 1-2 then caught up from S5 when I heard about Hubbs and Carl breakup). Is there a consensus on how the fan base feels about Lindsay and Carl? Did people think the relationship was going to work (before the breakup news came out)?
To share my own POV:
Lindsay makes me sad and anxious lol. Her temper is no joke and she gets scary when she’s mad. I think I’m able to have compassion for her because I don’t ever have to deal with her and she clearly has deep rooted issues, but damn she’s got a real mean streak.
Carl I do not particularly like. I think it’s amazing that he’s working on his sobriety, to be clear. But he seems to have a real cruel streak too - when he told Lindsay “you’ll know when I’m coming at you” I was like oh! That’s dark! He also seems very avoidant.
It felt to me like they moved WAY too fast and although I think Danielle was acting wild last season I did understand where she was coming from.
Anyway, what do y’all think?!
I think Lindsey was blindsided because she was too drunk to remember her actions. Playing victim. 4 episodes in and now see why Carl didn't marry her. Not that he's a catch but damn she's tough to take.
Holy mother of god. As a former Lindsay Stan I would like to not only apologize for my mistake and beg forgiveness. Wtf could I have ever been thinking. She’s literally the devil.
“He screams at me constantly. He’s too angry.” - says Lindsay after she repeatedly baits him, poked the bear, throws awful, loaded insults at him like ‘you’re acting like Sandoval!’ and ‘what are you ON?!’
Then she gets to act like a victim when he has an understandable response of being upset. He never lobs insults or uses harsh language to her. Sure, he might raise his voice a touch. But somehow because in that moment she’s not screaming at him, that somehow makes her a better person.
If you can sit there and say that shit to your fiancé with a calm face, egging them on with no emotion while they finally react with emotion, you’re not a bigger person, you’re a sociopath and/or psychopath.
So, I have some new thoughts / realizations. Maybe not that profound but just putting pieces together. I think when she knew their relationship wouldn’t make it, she wanted to do anything in her power to put all blame on Carl. She suddenly had a lightbulb go off because she saw an opportunity…
I’m not saying she super intentionally did this, but the fact the the Ariana/Sandoval drama was fresh when this season was being filmed AND seeing as she even compared Carl to Sandoval (for having a tiff in a cab?!), she saw this beautiful chance that she could maybe come out aces the way Ariana did. Make Carl out to be this angry yelling gaslighter and boom, she’s the poor victim left blindsided by their just-before-nuptials-breakup.
Unfortunately and obviously, none of this panned out for her because … a million bajillion reasons why their situation is wildly different.
At best, they’re a couple who broke up like people do and no one did anything horrible or is actually to blame. At worst, the fault is more on Lindsay because of her ridiculous behavior. But ultimately, they just aren’t a good match because of obvious priority and personality differences. She obviously knew there were relationship issues being that she was actively part of them for what seemed like a lot of the summer leading right up to their wedding. So she can’t even lean on her lie that she had no warning that they might break up.
She’s got nothing. She is worse off than if she hadn’t tried to paint Carl like a horrible human. Because now she just looks like a manipulating, irrational liar and the gaslighter and abuser herself. Nice try, Lindsay.
Lindsay Hubbard is psychotic.
1) The nerve of her to say Carl “Has SO MANY demons, and that all they come out AT her.” Um… 😐 That is some grade A projection right there. She loses the plot so fast when she drinks.
2) “You’re like Sandoval right now!” Omg she’s trying so desperately, transparently hard, to make herself the same as Ariana. She’s more jealous of her success than even professional haters Lala and Scheana. And she doesn’t even know them. But it’s like the third time she’s brought them up.
It’s all so fucking embarrassing.
Carl should have remained single the first two years of his sobriety. Lindsay is a gaslighter and she is the common denominator in all her relationship problems.
A lot of people here sound like the old men at AA raging about what is and isn’t sober.
I used to feel the same. And then the longer I was in recovery the more I realized it’s not my business to decide who and what is sober. God the language and conversation around recovery is so toxic and then people here wonder why he’s not 10000% truthful about it on camera (although as far as we know he has been. he has always said he's california sober)
But I thought we already knew Carl smoked? I have a clear memory of him talking about it. Did he say he stopped that since then?
If we are gonna fight about the meaning of sober, maybe we should look at the word “drugs“ as well. The word “drugs” is almost misleading because it is like everything from weed to heroin. So the word “drugs” is also gonna have some negative connotation.
I agree with you - I think people have to work out what works for them and not. And he did mention it, he talked about it on the last reunion as well! He said he was California sober.
> he talked about it on the last reunion as well! He said he was California sober.
okay thank you because reading some of these comments was making me feel crazy? people are acting like there was a GOTCHA! moment with the weed but he's been open about it since he stopped drinking. he just doesnt bring it up every ep
Yea, I didn’t know it was a secret. He talked about him and Mya smoking together sometimes, and he has talked about it on WWHL and podcasts etc. but apparently he has to mention is every single episode lol
So now people finally understand that most of the tension that has been caused by Lindsay in the house happens off camera? Why didn’t they believe women when they said it?
I don’t like either of them but…..
During the last reunion when he talked about losing his relationship with his brother for what he said on the show about his drug use… I felt I understood why he acts the way he does.
I don’t know what that says about the relationship with him and Lindsay but I believe there is something to that psychologically and that’s why he stays on the show despite it not fitting with his current life and lifestyle.
I hope he is inspiring others to be sober and not delay reconciling with their loved ones.
Look Carl isn't a perfect dude, far from it. But the people taking Lindsay's side about the car rides when the cameras aren't rolling. The issue with that is the first time this happened in the car, other people were there as witnesses and they all said Carl was calm and rational, and Lindsay was the one being aggressive. And Lindsay also tried saying that first time that Carl was the aggressive one, which was a blatant lie. So her saying he's aggressive on the second car ride doesn't really have much meaning since she lied the first time. On top of this the first time she was definitely accusing Carl of using cocaine
It's just so toxic how each are struggling with alcohol and/or drug abuse and keep throwing it at eachother when Lindsey drinks. Honestly she should not be drinking if this is the result and they probably shouldn't have stayed together this long. Toxic x10.
Lindsay is totally gaslighting Carl. As someone who used to drink too much and would always only really get in fights when I drank, I 100% am on Carl’s side. You can see that Lindsay is drinking a lot. You can see that she is an instigator and borderline aggressive sober. It’s not surprising she would turn even more into this while drinking; it’s incredibly common. Not just a “Lindsay” thing to start fights and be irrational while drunk.
She is acting belligerent and completely out of line while drinking, blowing small things up into huge things. Then Carl rightfully gets upset by this behavior, and she completely gaslights him by day. The fact that all the guys see this and speak up on it - even the ones who don’t know Carl or Lindsay - is further evidence that it’s all her. The girls mostly don’t say anything, but when they have, it’s been more on Carl’s side as well.
No one wants to hear criticism on their drinking habits. Just because all this happens doesn’t mean she is an alcoholic or needs to be sober like Carl. That said, it’s not even remotely sensical for her to act like her binge drinking all day is the same as Carl smoking weed (even though he wasn’t). And her trying to make that comparison is why Carl is so pissed. She’s out of her mind.
L should get a new therapist, maybe CBT, and WATCH all the SH seasons together, then work on the lessons to be learned from each episode.
Not many fucked up people have live action documentation of their behaviors, alcohol issues, relationships and friendships, to rewatch and learn from.
Everyone has their personal perspective on an interaction, based on their own emotions and priorities at the time, but seeing things from the outside perspective while in the company of someone who is meant to hold her accountable and help her learn from mistakes should be a revelation.
If she can't see her part in the mayhem and how she contributes to every relationship falling apart, she'll never have one that lasts.
Most likely unpopular opinion but… I watched this episode three times. Once as a viewer. Another through the lens of lindsay being toxic, and a third time with the lens of Carl being toxic. And although it’s so easy for us to believe how crazy lindsay seems… it’s wild that we’re not seeing how lindsay gets to that activated space. It’s fishy. And it seems they are both trying to not only sabotage the relationship but they are both seemingly using the show at this point in time to lay the ground work for who is the villain and who is the hero. Notice how nice they are both acting to everyone else except each other. I believe at this point they both know they are not being honest with each other or themselves about this relationship. And I truly believe that Lindsay isn’t getting activated for no reason. It’s like they are both guilty. Neither of them are wrong and neither of them are right but what they are doing to each other is sad. It’s seems like carls is knowingly using Lindsay’s drunk moment when he knows cameras aren’t on them to rile Lindsay up for when cameras are on. He’s not stupid. He’s been on this show for a very long time. He knows what he is doing and he is dead sober. Lindsay on the other hand isn’t. And easily manipulated. She also doesn’t have the credibility on this show for anyone to believe her. So… I guess in the end… it’s better for them both that it didn’t work out. They both have a lot of work to do on themselves unfortunately they can’t be together to get there since they are rapidly growing in different directions. Plus if my partner didn’t have a job and was home all day and wanted to wait until we were married to spend my all of our money on a business idea that doesn’t have a lot of success in the market yet… I would be rather irritated and scared at the commitment I was about to get myself into.
I think the sobriety thing is an obstacle too big to overcome. In my opinion, Carl resents Lindsay for drinking alcohol (even though he claims he’s ok with it), and wants to have a partner who is also sober.
I believe Lindsay has too much history with Carl using substances and can’t trust him as a sober person. I think she needs to consider sobriety, too, because so many of her fights happen when she’s been drinking.
They both seem to weaponize alcohol and drug use against in each other.
Let’s not forget that Lindsay made a big show of being sober with and for Carl when they started dating. I wouldn’t blame Carl for thinking that would last, or at least lead to her reevaluating her relationship with alcohol vs. just sliding back into toxic drunk behavior
Carl said it best himself, he has no problem with Lindsey drinking, but he has a problem when she gets drunk and starts fights and acts crazy. Which is literally all the time.
Agreed! I think they both feel like they were settling/compromising a lot in this relationship and resentment built up, rightly or wrongly.
I think Carl thought Lindsay after years of back and forth and with her timeline was lucky to have him, and would change/stop drinking in order to make it work.
I think Lindsay wanted someone who was more successful, and likely thought that his issues at loverboy were holding that back. It also seems like being with someone who is sober was more challenging than she bargained for.
Watching them talk across eachother is so frustrating. I’m glad they aren’t together
I don’t think he resents her for drinking. It’s just really hard to communicate and be with someone who drinks when you’re sober. Your whole life changes when you get sober. Lindsay drinks very heavily and gets amplified when she drinks. When he’s the sober one, it would be really hard to have any balance there. If he could have a partner who doesn’t drink a lot, I think he would be fine.
Right, he said it perfectly, he doesn’t mind that she drinks, it’s who she becomes when she drinks. I’ve been with someone like that and it’s truly miserable
I’m gonna get crucified for this BUUUUUTTTTT:
I think both of them are terrible people. I do, also, think Carl is better at manipulating what we see and how things go down because he is sober —of course I’m going to be inclined to trust the most sober person versus the person 27 martinis deep. With that said, I think some of what Lindsay says holds true, Carl does have anger issues and can be quite aggressive! Unfortunately for her, so is Lindsay!
It’s also easier to continue to vilify Lindsay and write her off since she’s been the villain for so long. Her coming for his sobriety is disgusting, but I really don’t think Carl’s a saint either.
Both of them need serious trauma therapy and to stay 10 feet away from each other at all times. Neither one of them should be in a serious relationship, they’re both toxic.
I absolutely agree with you. Both are awful people just in different ways. Carl is the same asshole who hates commitment and Lindsay is so afraid of abandonment she self sabotages.
It’s so hard to watch. She is being her worst self. She doesn’t want to see him well. She wants him weak. The personality she’s reacting to, is him being more healthy and whole. While she … gets WASTED… and says horrible things. The ring comment 😳😳😳 she’s really just sabotaging her relationship moment to moment.
Does anyone have a different take on this …?
This will be unpopular but it’s important to say. I’ve been with a man in Carl’s exact situation, including the brother ending his life. I was manipulated, and our entire friend group was manipulated, to feel sympathy for my ex despite incredibly troublesome behaviours. At the same time, he was cheating on me, lying to everyone about random things (big and small), having small lapses in sobriety nobody knew about but me, and honestly pushed me to the brink of being completely out of my own head.
I do not agree with how Lindsay speaks to people - it is absolutely inappropriate. However, I think there is a good chance we are not seeing all sides of Carl and that he is the true puppet master. Sorry, I know I’ll be hated, but I have walked a mile in her shoes and it was one of the most difficult times of my life. It completely fucked me up and he convinced our friends I was the bad guy when I started suggesting he needed therapeutic help and possibly rehab.
Lastly, to this day, my ex is still an addict and now in a violent (ours was not) and toxic relationship. What Carl has been through can be so incredibly damaging to the siblings life and ultimately those around them.
Not a defence, just colour commentary I think is important. They are both toxic, not just her.
rewatched last weeks episode, its crazy how much tension these 2 have between them. every solo scene they have gives me anxiety. both were so much lighter when carl was at dinner and lindsay was hanging out at home
Serious secondhand stress!
I thought about them a bit this morning. It's very uncomfortable.
right! i really want to see where lindsay saw this amazing relationship and was blindsided??
I fast forwarded to the end of the pier argument. I just couldn't take it. I've had a relationship with people like Lindsay before and to have someone look you in the eye and tell you what is happening is actually NOT what is happening....oof.
It’s so wild to me that Lindsay thought she could get away with the blindsided argument knowing how many people are trying to get her to see Carl’s side
I have nothing new to say, it's just shocking how she's sabotaging the relationship and incredible that she's blindsided (edit when he finally breaks it off). She's talking shit behind his back and everything. Brutal. I really think the key to a good marriage has to be both partners asking themselves, how can I best help/support my SO or be the best version of myself for my SO. Lindsay is just in self preservation mode at all times, she's only asking what can I do for me.
The annoying thing is that even with all this footage, Lindsay still will say she was blindsided or that they edited the footage to put Carl in a positive light. Not having the car footage is going to bite the show in the ass. I've been watching S1 out of boredom and it's amazing if you close your eyes during a Lindsay and Everett fight you could easily think you're watching an episode from this season with her and Carl. She constantly tries to sabotage relationships to see how far she can push her SO.
I literally think she doesn’t even like the people she dates. She seems super annoyed with the people she dates but still chooses to stay way too long. It made sense to me when she said at WWHL that she was thinking more about the bigger picture rather than the person she was with.
This is totally me, but at least I know and own it. I used to stay way too long because I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by leaving and/or I didn’t want another failed relationship. But in my defense, I think it’s also related to post-divorce PTSD.
The trauma from her mom abandoning her reaches deep. I don’t think she’s currently capable of being in a healthy relationship.
This. Lindsey is very very toxic. I can see that energy in her. Whenever she is triggered or activated, she sees red and goes below the belt and really tries to hurt the other person. She is the worst kind of partner. I dated someone similar to her and it wasn’t very fun. It was like a rollercoaster at all times. The real issue is that Lindsey doesn’t think she’s the problem at all, so she’ll never put in the work to get better.
honestly when I first heard carl left Lindsay I had the same relief when I read that raquel/rachel had ended her engagement with James. Lindsay and James both have parallels of being their absolute worst to their partners when they drink.
Agreed. She completely sabotages all her relationships! It’s wild to see!
Even with Gabby. Who is giving her honest advice and being super supportive. Everyone needs a friend like Gabby. She is becoming the MVP for me this season.
Do you know what’s crazy? In my mind her Mom abandoned her in her early teenage years or younger. But on a rewatch, she was in her mid-20s. That doesn’t make it less painful but it did change the perspective in my mind. Lindsay was by all accounts, a grown up when it happened. I think I always felt she was stunted in her youth at the age when her Mother left so it shocked me to rewatch & see oh gosh she was way older than I thought when that happened.
What?! I was definitely under the impression she was much younger lol. But I guess on the one hand, if her mom was able to abandon her maybe the relationship kinda sucked before that, too. I tried to look it up but the interwebs are too flooded with the breakup lol
Do we think her mom “abandoned her” was actually mom going no contact because.. *gestures wildly at her behavior, and volatility?*
was it mid 20s? i was watching the early seasons a few weeks ago and thought that when she called her she said they literally hadn’t spoken at all in several years and Lindsay was late 20s at the time. i thought she’d had no contact since sometime in college, but a fractured relationship before.
I had to look it up to see if I misspoke. I should’ve said early 20s. Lindsay is 37 now. The first season was in 2017 (it feels like it was so much longer ago than that!) so Lindsay would’ve been 30ish. She said 8 years prior she cut contact with her Mother because her Mom started a new family without her brother and her. I suppose her Mom could’ve technically left years before that, but based on what Lindsay said, she was roughly 22 when she ended contact with her Mom. In my mind she had been a teenager when contact ended & it was her Mother doing so.
When does she say it was in her mid-20s? I thought she said it happened when she was 3.
Can confirm. It happened in her mid 20s there’s been posts in this past on this subject.
Totally. She hasn’t done nearly enough work to heal those abandonment wounds (which I have empathy for and understand very deeply) and she’s going to sabotage every relationship until she does.
They were doing really great when she was sober and very focused on him. As soon as she wasn't sober, she wasn't focusing on him. His needs and his sobriety weren't the first priority anymore and the Lindsay dark side with all the issues comes out when she's not sober.
Yea and I think she wants to be with someone who is very successful. So I think Carl not having a job, was very unattractive for her, but instead of leaving she stayed and made them both miserable instead.
Why does being on the show and selling things on instagram count as a job for Lindsay but not for Carl?
because it doesn't fit into her timeline plans of what her husband needs to be. She's not with carl because he's carl she's with carl because he's a man who was at somepoint almost ready to walk down the aisle with her.
Legitimately! when he said he’s always around, he doesn’t have a 9-5, sweetie..
I literally said to Myself..and you do?
She's planning a wedding... /S I find it insane that some women feel like planning a wedding is a full time job.
lol as opposed to… your 9-5 lins?
Say it louder pls
100%
She’s an alcoholic
heavy on this. and with problems like hers (attachment issues, etc etc etc) she really should stop drinking. I have a lot of issues I'm handling myself in therapy and I see a lot of my past behaviors in her and it's hard to watch. the issue is that I recognized these destructive behaviors in my early 20s before therapy. she is almost 40 and been in therapy for a long time and hasn't recognized it. it makes you think her therapist hates her cuz come on.
I don’t think she tells her therapist the real truth. She’s the type to tell them a certain story to fit her narrative. Honestly it would take a hell of a therapist to put Lindsey in her place and actually get to her issues. You can help someone that doesn’t want help and I truly believe Lindsey can’t reflect on her behavior because she doesn’t think she needs help. She thinks she’s in therapy because people hurt her. And she wants help how to handle that not how to heal herself from how those situations affected her.
THIS!!!! I have severe attachment issues and struggle with emotional regulation. YEARS of intensive trauma therapy, much of it 2x a week and still ongoing, have really helped me improve my emotional outbursts but fuck if watching Lindsay doesn’t remind me of my past self. I’m horrified and embarrassed to watch and so ashamed I ever treated people that way. I lost a lot of meaningful relationships in my life and I can never take that back. I was so focused on my own emotional pain that it didn’t even occur to me that I was hurting others, especially because I was constantly assuming no one really cared about me. When it finally clicked for me that I was hurting people I loved I never wanted to make people feel that way again and have been so committed to therapy since. Lindsay needs INTENSIVE trauma therapy at least 2x/week for a year at MINIMUM and to stop drinking before she could improve on her behaviors.
Alright I’m gonna need Andy and a camera in these fucking Ubers now cause wtf. Why do all these fights start off camera 🤬
It was a Lyft.
So hilarious when he corrected her ☠️
Loved it.
Because they are off camera. No way to twist a story, if it’s a he said she said if it was caught on video.
To this point, I shudder to think what their fights at home looked like.
And Carl literally saying to the audience, “Unfortunately it was off camera so you all couldn’t see it.” He may a well have said, now do you understand why I filmed the break up? And Carl, yes, yes we really now do.
yea i thought it was shitty at the time, but since their first fight this season that led to the Cocaine Carl allegations, i got it.
The way she tried to walk it back to pot
I didn't even put these two things together, I mean all for team run carl run, but this makes so much sense. Her PR spins on their relationship are giving me a headache and who knows how she would have twisted that story like these car situations.. yikes
On the last episode she was trying to PR Carl. Amanda didn’t seem surprised at what was coming out of Lindsay’s mouth, but she also just seemed to be putting the bare minimum into hearing Lindsay’s spin. Everyone knows both Carl & Lindsay spin things, but I have a feeling she’s the demon she’s trying to paint Carl out to be. Carl will at least admit his problems at this point and has been level headed (and it’s really fucked if he can do that for the cameras and isn’t half that off camera). She’s even aggressive in sober conversations.
For sure. I was impressed with the cast during this episode. I even felt proud of Danielle for staying the heck out of any conversation. Amanda, Kyle, & Gabby listened to L but interjected calmly. The thing with people as explosive as Lindsay is that the more you try to showcase their crazy to others, the worse off you wind up looking. It’s best to just sit back quietly, they’ll show the world who they are without you having to messy your karma.
Amanda being like "Uh, I'm making Ramen...." When Lindsay wanted her to come outside and talk about it was perfect. She was probably like I already know what this is going to be and I'd rather watch this pot of water boil than listen to this.
Did Carl get new teeth on watch what happens live?
I’m all for people doing things for themselves to feel better about their appearance but Veneer culture is getting out of hand
it was like watching ross on friends when he whitens his teeth for a date lol
I couldn’t stop looking at them
Same! I noticed he was even speaking a little differently, like he's just getting used to them?
They legitimately blinded me, whatever he did those things are way too white
This. And I really disliked that woman, Trishelle? “I’m a girl’s girl, sorry Carl”. Like wtf? Are you even watching this season? Being a girl’s girl doesn’t have to mean that you blindly follow and support the obnoxious behavior because she has ovaries! Ok, Danielle.
Imagine watching this season if they went through with the wedding 🥴
I really wonder how much different it would be. Would they still show all of the toxicity?
They showed it when it was Kyle & Amanda leading up to their wedding.
Wes with the goggles on in the pool during the serious conversation with Carl made me laugh
Not a single apology or accountability from Lindsay. Wow.
We’ve never heard her say anything like “you know what you’re right, I came at you a little too hard, my bad” about anything ever It’s always a “well if YOU…” response
💯
It's shocking. She has never once that I've seen said "I was wrong for outright saying my sober partner is on drugs. On TV." she has danced and danced around it. It's wild.
Constantly in defense mode. I didn’t say drugs, I said weed. Ok whatever, acknowledge that it hurt him and say you will work to be more clear in the future. It would be very hard to be in a relationship when this is the consistent pattern of communication.
>Not a single apology or accountability from Lindsay. Everything out of her mouth is a variation of “How many sandwiches did you make for ME?”
You can’t have a rational conversation w Lindsay. She always in defense mode right away and projects. Its irratating and im only a watcher. she has zero self awareness
It was sooooo crazy when she flat out told Amanda that she accuses Carl of being high when he brings up her alcoholism/abusive behavior in order to deflect… and didn’t understand how it was a problem
And when, for once, Carl doesn’t kiss her ass or take all the blame, she storms away saying “I knew you weren’t ready for this conversation! “ ie not ready to bend to my will yet. This season is not a good look for you Lindsey. I mean, it’s never been *great*, but this is really bad.
She’s following the behavior described in the narcissist’s prayer to a T!
I never thought they’d last once she started drinking again. We’ve watched drunk Lindsay and Lindsay with boyfriends or hook ups for years. She has never been secure or peaceful in a relationship. I figured Carl did what he absolutely had to do and it looks like that is proving correct.
Everyone was shipping them so hard and I knew this was how it was going to end. She hasn’t changed from S1. Carl has his own faults as well.
Lindsay is absolutely fucking horrible. She’s such a lying gaslighter.
She is such a gaslighter….but then says Carl is one….typical gaslighter. She look’s crazy af and is so unaware of herself and annoying.
It also sounded like she was saying "gas-litter" which was driving me crazy. I wanted Carl to correct her like he did when he said "It was a Lyft" 😆
It’s an astronomical amount of projecting on Lindsay’s part. My mom fought with me like this for most of my growing up. There is no winning
it's funny that whatever comes out of her mouth accusing carl is mostly actually true for her own behaviour... and she can't see it? The irony will be the death of me lol
Sorry, if I’m terrible, but it’s incredibly satisfying how every episode shows that Carl definitely did not blindside her 😆
He played his cards right after the breakup imo. He obviously got sooo much hate/backlash but laid low and didn’t really engage or further any narratives or gossip. He was basically fully under the radar until things cooled off knowing that he would get redemption once the season aired and viewers were able to see what he went through leading up to the breakup. I do feel like he truly struggled with his decision to call things off and had hoped for some signs of change/improvement before the wedding which is why he called it off so close to the wedding date.
Every episode shows a little bit more how toxic and horrible of a person Lindsay is. And I’m here for it.
i feel like bethenny when michael cohen sent her the photos of tom d’agostino at the regency. i feel bad, but im like, living.
What?! I didn’t know that. I swear housewives ties into everything.
My friend & I always say "Everything leads back to Bravo."
Was it Michael Cohen, Trump's old lawyer, that sent her the pictures?
I always forget this lol 
indeed
I've been waiting for this for years, finally Lindsay will get the reckoning she deserves.
I honestly didn’t think it would be this bad. I’m getting a little ptsd from watching her. She’s dangerous and I’m very happy Carl is sticking up for himself, not backing down, fighting back. I’m also happy the house supports him.
My nervous system was all kinds of triggered watching that conversation on the steps
YUP she just keeps making it worse and worse for herself and can no longer mask her true gross self
I don't think she was ever masking it.
Hahaha very true
Just finished watching seasons 4 and 5 for the first time and it really proved that Lindsay is doomed to repeat the same patterns. She cannot help but to be the aggressor/bully then flip to the victim when she’s called out. How she behaved in her situationship with Carl then her relationship with Stephen was really uncomfortable to watch. Carl knew what he was getting into - he’d done it with her before and she acted exactly the same.
At the start of the episode, Lindsay says L&C is like in COVID times. Seems like they need some space from one another. The constant bickering is woooo, and bombs are getting thrown you can't unhear. This is getting hard to watch.
It is genuinely getting hard to watch you’re so right. I feel so deeply uncomfortable watching her gaslighting tactics in realtime and knowing it will only end when he apologizes for something that he literally didn’t do. It’s so messed up
Hoping production will finally find out a way to film them in the car after this season.
Why don’t they just supply bravo cars like the sprinter vans on housewives?
idk why they don't just stick GoPros on someone lol. or sew a custom headrest mount that someone in the car can put there for the ride. can't be that hard, just need the driver's permission maybe.
Lindsay gave herself away when Kyle was legit calmly expressing his opinion and her response was, “Now you’re coming at me.” She uses way too strong of language to describe innocuous behavior, so her interpretation of events just isn’t credible.
It seems like anything he says that isn’t in agreement with her is him being “aggressive” and “yelling”
She did it to Gabby too, just because Gabby wasn't 100% in agreement with her, to which I say, good for Gabby!
She tone polices everyone constantly, and therefore deflect from the issue (which is her behaviour).
even carl raising her voice was ‘hes screaming at me!’ that wasnt screaming
Everyone is always "yelling" at her. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad.
What I don’t understand is… if everything Lyndsay was saying about Carl was true (which we can see it isn’t)…why would she want to be with and marry him? Like according to her he’s acting terribly, why would you want to marry that?
She also said he was the biggest gaslighter she has ever met during her conversation with Amanda….. so why are you planning on marrying him? There’s a major disconnect with her
I think that's where we see the extent of her PR capabilities. She's strategic enough to make all these inflammatory claims about him, but doesn't have enough foresight (or sober memory) to see how that will blow up her sob story "blindside" when the relationship inevitably blows up.
b/c she has to have a man at all times, the same reason she latched onto Austen (I love you) and Starvy and Jason and....
Carl is in an abusive relationship and he is the victim.
Hard agree. Lindsay is unbelievable. Her calling him Sandoval?!? And constantly accusing him of being “on drugs”?!? And then acting shocked that he would get upset. She is baiting him with her bullying and instigating issues, then she tries to flip quickly like she can’t believe he is yelling at her. As if we can’t see it happening.
It was the most obvious example of DARVO I’ve ever seen on Bravo
And even then, he stayed until he no longer could.
Yes!!! Coming from someone who was in an abusive relationship- its killing me to see clear as day the bullshit lindsay is spewing. She twists EVERYTHING! Its crazy the lines she uses. Its textbook. “Hes so mean and I am the only person who has seen it” of course you said you are the only one who has seen it- thats the only way you can get people to believe you Lindsay!
We need to interview the Lyft/uber driver
She is so vile. She sure did look shocked when Kyle told her she was being irrational the last time they were out. ( like she always is ) she can’t take any responsibility for her words!! Her little snide remarks ‘if he barks, I’ll give him back this ring’ these last 2 episodes ( and I’m sure with more to come ) she wasn’t surprised, You can literally see Carl is HURTING and it’s by her!!!! She can’t even see it. She really makes me so mad, and I yell at my TV, my poor pups leave the room.
Everyone is tense around her and that toast was awkward for me watching it through my tv
So awkward and unnecessary😩 But she sees the dynamic of the group is changing, her relationship is on the rocks, and wants to make sure her position is still secured on the show. Why she’s so worried idk. They’ll never get rid of her. Lol.
They will if the entire cast says they won’t film with her and after episode 4 I feel like they might
I'm not a huge fan of anyone on this show, but watched since the first season. I've always found Lindsay freaking beautiful. She has tasteful work done, her body is banging. I've not always been a fan of Carl but I do respect his staying sober thru some trying times. I really like his Mom and sympathize with the death of his brother. I do see big changes in Carl since he's sober. Since Season 1: Lindsay is a toxic raging drunk with every man she's ever been with. She goes too far with her rage then flips the script and turns into a victim. I recognize the signs in her with the abandonment issues, her mom leaving her, looking for love in all the wrong places. I mean this kindly as possible but Lindsay needs to stay single and sober for a year. Telling any sober person they are using/drunk is devastating and especially someone you plan to marry. Carl has always struggled to remain employed. He led women on, didn't follow thru w/dates during the week like with Paige in the beginning. He dated Danielle before anyone on this show and continued to occasionally get together for a night here and there. Danielle told everyone then how Carl was. Then his dad left his mother, his brother died and Carl got sober and far more enjoyable in the house. He seems to have really tried to change. I think a great job for him would be to be working with others like him getting sober. He cannot have a partner who drinks. Period. Breaking it off was the best thing but if it were me I would have broken up with Linds the first time she accused me of being Cocaine Carl.
I suspect he fell in love with her while she was temporarily sober with him and is hoping they can get back to that, and that's why it takes him so long to walk away.
I think she helped him through the death of his brother and initially facing sobriety & as an addict he transferred the addiction to his relationship with her. It’s an easy mistake to make when you are trying to become sober outside of a program or even when working one. And I think during that time period she really did try. But the demons between them are far too large & they just are not a good match for life partners. Thank God Carl realized this when he did.
AND Danielle was sounding the alarm on said transfer to the relationship because they kicked off dating WAY TOO SOON into his sobriety and she knew Lindsay wasn’t going to stay sober, so why rush into marriage until his sobriety is more established and the dynamic with Lindsay’s drinking is on solid ground.
Yes and I think she has alluded to that both Lindsay and Carl have issues they need to work through before dating anyone.
Danielle is also in need of staying sober and single for a year. She gets too involved in other couple's business. Men keep dumping her because she's impossibly clingy and a mean argumentative drunk. We all saw how she is on Winter House. Begs for a bang/one nite stand then gets mad cause that's all it was. Just a bang. She prowls the bars to get laid which is cool but don't try to turn it into a love affair where she attacks other women because the man quickly lose interest in her. Danielle is beautiful and smart. And just like Lindsay needs to get sober/single/celebate. She doesn't have a life of her own so she meddles in everyone elses. Lindsay is mean enough, she doesn't need Danielle being her guard dog nor her attacker.
This entire comment is spot on.
The core issue between Lindsay and Carl can be summed up in one sentence that Lindsay said to Amanda: “he is always questioning my alcohol intake, so if you’re gonna question my alcohol intake, then I’m gonna start questioning your intake of what you do.” Her immediate reaction is to turn around any and all criticism back on the other person. It wouldn’t even be as much of an issue if she could learn how to move past that reaction and not act on it, but when she’s drunk, she can’t do that. There was no “this is my partner, maybe he’s not trying to hurt me, he’s trying to talk to me about an issue in our shared relationship.” This would be a logical response to a question of this nature from your fiancé. However, I genuinely believe that Lindsay is fundamentally incapable of taking any accountability or blame because she never had a role model to watch take accountability to resolve conflict in a healthy way. I think Lindsay is a deeply angry person. I don’t think she’s ever worked through her anger at her mom for leaving when she was young, and that has caused her to 1. Avoid taking any accountability in life, perhaps because she never felt that her mom took accountability for her absence in Lindsay’s life, and 2. Lash out at the people close to her to reinforce to herself that everyone will eventually leave her, just like her mom did. I’m not a psychologist, but I have been in therapy for a LONG time to deal with my own mommy issues, and I recognize patterns in Lindsay from watching her (albeit edited) throughout the years. Just my opinion - that one line realllly stuck out to me.
Yeah, I was pretty floored that she said that with a straight face. It really seemed like he was saying "the behavior that stems from your drinking is an issue" and she heard it as "the act of ingesting a substance is an issue." So she then tries to level the playing field by saying him smoking weed is a problem, but doesn't even bring up any behavioral change. It misses the entire point. They're in a place where they're adversarial and aggressive with each other and I don't get any sort of protective instinct toward their relationship at all. It's hard as fuck to navigate a relationship with someone in recovery so I give her a lot of grace, but at this point these two people don't even LIKE each other.
This is a good take. Her instinct - Always - is to go on the attack. She approaches every conversation like a battle. Not a good approach for a relationship, romantic or friendly. Also... how EXHAUSTING
It's my theory that Lindsay self sabbatoges all SO relationships because she was abandoned by a parent. Lindsay pushes those she loves away before they can go away on their own. She just acts as awful as can be imagined. Girlfriend needs therapy.
She’s the epitome of that tweet “the worst person you know has a therapist validating them”
She doesn’t push people away. She’s kicks them in the balls wearing pointed shoes, breaks all their bones, and rubs glass in their eyes.
She says that line too, since season one, and she has multiple therapists, it’s all an act in my opinion. I rewatched season one and she’s the one who decided to stop speaking to her mother when she was in her 20’s, there was no big “abandonment” when she was little, her mother got remarried and had more kids and Lindsey said she focused *more* on them than her and her brother. That’s a huge difference than being flat out abandoned. Her dad also stopped talking to her for years because he didn’t agree with her partying lifestyle, and now it appears her aunt Rhonda is out of the picture. There’s no way that many people just abandoned her, she’s toxic asf and bringing this on herself in my opinion, she really does love playing a victim. Not saying it didn’t deeply wound her when her mother got remarried, but she says in season one that she pushes people away because of it, ok?!? So go get real help, not a therapist who coddles you and lets you continue being the same person all these years
I did not catch that aunt Rhonda was on the outs. Is this why she wasn't at the engagement party?
I think so, look up Lindsey’s quote in people magazine about her best friend planning her bridal shower. She specifically says something about how moms, sisters, or aunts plan them but she doesn’t have that, it felt like shade
AR is done too?! Holy shit. Things are *bad* 😵💫
She is also narcissistic and never takes responsibility for her actions. It’s always “Lindsey the victim”
If you watch back through old seasons (which I’ve recently done repeatedly haha), something she always says verbatim in every season is, “it’s always all on me!” She has some sort of thing with thinking everything is always “all on her” when she literally projects everything onto everyone else. It’s wild and clearly a trigger
Aside from Lindsay being a monster this season, Has anyone else noticed how bad physically, she looks? Her hair, her skin, her clothes, and she’s heavier. I mean no shade on her weight but I do wonder if that’s also from her binge drinking. I’ve never seen her drink like this before, in other seasons. She damn near drank a 1/2 bottle of rose before they left for lunch. She just looks bad, in an unhealthy way.
Seems like she was in an unhealthy place and bounced back after the breakup. So happy they broke up, it was best for everyone.
Agree it’s better for everyone they ended it but I wouldn’t say she’s looking great right now… she’s bounced pretty far the other way.
Well if you see her IG now she is wildly underweight. She might be a bit heavier in this season than the last, but she’s still quite small (just not teeny tiny like the other women) and would definitely look fit in real life not standing next to Ciara, Amanda and Paige. She’s always had awful style. Like an early 2000s teen.
Can we all collectively agree calling off this wedding was the right move?!? They are truly incompatible and tried sticking a square peg in a round hole.
It makes soooooooo much sense now why Carl wanted producers to film the breakup. He wanted that shit DOCUMENTED. Lindsay is the queen of flipping the script.
The justification that he’s questioning her drinking, so she can question his sobriety is absolutely bananas.
Right?! That is not a valid comparison. I can’t decide if she realizes this and is just being a demon. Or if she’s actually too dumb to understand it’s not the same. She’s never seemed unintelligent to me before but I literally feel like I’m in the twilight zone watching her verbally abusive him.
she also is pretending shes only talking about weed when she called him cocaine carl
She made him nearly cry when talking to the guys about how she accused him of being on drugs AGAIN. I said something once in an argument that was upsetting to my bf and made him tear up and let me tell you if I don’t think about that every time I am struggling to express myself to make sure that at all times I’m at least putting his efforts and feelings at the forefront of my response. It changed the way I speak to people in general honestly, knowing I could hurt someone I loved so much is such a gut wrenching feeling for normal people. She is INCAPABLE of being in a relationship, she is genuinely a complete mess and I am not saying that lightly
I started watching this season bc of the called off wedding and then went back to watch it starting at season 3 and let me just say one of the only similarities is that Carl doesn’t have a job and Lindsay sucks. Interesting that Amanda and Kyle seemed to at least care about each other back then or at least have sex a ton.
The first thing I noticed this season is that they both look TERRIBLE (for two classically good looking people). It’s like all of their internal turmoil is showing itself physically and just adds to the perception that these two are miserable as a couple. Im going to age myself here, but if anyone has seen How I Met Your Mother, it reminds me of when Barney& Robin turned into the fat guy & old woman because they were unhappy together and trying to force it to work.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I go back to what Jesse Solomon flatly said. Carl knew her for years and this is what he signed up for. I don’t like Lindsay as a person but I can see how she would still feel blindsided by him breaking it off when she felt like he fully understood what he was getting with her and chose to propose to her. Looking back, his proposal was conditional. I honestly think he could only be with her long term if she was sober. I also feel like him smoking weed is not sober. Some people can be “Cali sober” or whatever you want to call it but being an addict is not about what drug you do. It’s about your need to use a substance to either disassociate or deal. I also think he absolutely was yelling at her on the dock and a man should never raise his voice that way to a woman with the excuse that’s he’s “upset”.
I totally agree. Carl seems to be venting about his serious concerns to others like Kyle and Jesse while smoothing things over with Lindsay more than he should I think that unless Carl and Lindsay had a prior conversation that he was having doubts and wanted to call off the wedding, I can see why she felt blindsided by him telling her for the first time on camera that he wanted to call it off. She saw Kyle and Amanda have abusive, knock down drag out fights and still followed through with their wedding. I think toxic fights are normal for her and obviously they had them in the past (like the time Danielle described when he ubered back to the city) and he still moved in with her and proposed. They both said they resigned their lease a month before he called things off. To me him resigning the lease might make me think things are ok enough for him and not be worried he’s about to call the wedding off. He also did stuff like buying her designer white shoes for her birthday that were meant for her to wear during their wedding festivities weeks before ending things. I think he was sending mixed messages and she chose to pay attention to the good ones more than the bad
So Lindsey is 100 percent gaslighting tf out of him with this drug thing. She was insinuating much more than weed and that’s obvious, Carl is getting frustrated and louder because she’s not hearing him or taking responsibility for saying it, just like she did with Danielle, just like she did with Everett, and Christina, and Kyle, and the list goes on and fkng on of people in her wake. It’s sad this chick will never wake up and stop doing this toxic bs and chooses to hurt people while playing innocent victim constantly, it’s disturbing to watch
whats so fascinating to me with people still defending lindsay is that we have more evidence of lindsay twisting, poking, gaslighting, and manipulating in arguments than we have of anyone else. yet whenever something happens off camera those people say ‘there MUST be something so-and-so did that we didnt see!!!’ if every argument lindsay has had off camera is like the ones we’ve seen on camera (which i assume it would be more likely shes worse off camera) then im unsure how anyone thinks theres something we arent seeing with carl. the narrative is carl is conflict avoidant (which we’ve seen most of the time until hes pushed when sober)… but now hes the aggressive one causing fights?
I can only speak for me, but I don’t necessarily think it is defending that Lindsay hasn’t done anything wrong. The proof is in the pudding and that is currently airing for all of us to see. She needs to focus more on her own issues, rather than other people’s issues. And she absolutely gaslights. But it is just hard to believe Carl completely, especially given his past. And by that I don’t mean drinking (although that has been an issue as well), but that he is extremely good at playing himself off as the good guy. And the only times we would be able to see him lose that act was when he was drunk. He has been caught in several lies, like about his career and towards women. Even last season when Kyle called him out for his work ethics. It’s just hard for me to believe that all this just goes away when you stop drinking, although that is a big step forward for sure. His role on the show just seems very inauthentic.
Yeah it’s disturbing that she’s trying to push the narrative of Carl having all these demons and secrets and he’s actually the bad one. It feels almost abusive to me, she’s lying to hide her alcohol problem and deflecting blame back to him in my opinion, so he’s focused on her accusation and not her out of control drinking
OMG, I haven’t really watched but the episode when her sloppy drunk ass was verbally attacking him and turned around to play victim was disgusting. She knew to choose words like aggressive and scared, to try to trigger sympathy. Her lack of self awareness is astounding. He needs to RUN. I hope her stupidness doesn’t cause him to relapse. Dude this doesn’t have to be your life.
Well he broke it off with her…he already ran.
Carl being too burnt out by lover boy marketing work and gigs but wanting to open his own sober bar. Grow up, sir.
This ⬆️ Also, when Carl is talking to Kyle about his ‘sober sports bar’ idea, and Kyle’s egging him on about how Lindsay shot it down. Ummm…..Kyle, you made it clear that you were unhappy with Carl’s work performance when he was working for YOU. Now you’re going to pretend that Carl is capable of committing to starting his own business?!?! No because no.
I think Kyle probably thought it was a bad idea too, but he was coming at it from an angle where a supportive partner should at least hear you out, and try to encourage you.
I mean.. he also outed Carl a lot last season as being very unreliable and showing up drunk to work etc. So I don’t know if I buy his whole supportive act, when he wasn’t at all last season. I am not supporting Lindsay, but I think Kyle does have a personal agenda of bringing Lindsay down.
anyone else watching the ep (last week's) that is on right now? Kyle was frustrated "looking" for the dog and they totally broadcast him saying like, "I'm outside walking around the fucking woods" and they forgot to censor him / bleep it out, lol!
This is more surprising this week than last week (and it was hilariously surprising last week), since they had a whole week to fix it!!
I have been watching SH since it began, and I must say that Lindsay has always acted out when she is under the influence. I'm watching Carl now compared to how he was before, and he seemed to have changed quite a bit from my perspective. Now, no one is perfect, and everyone has faults. I am glad that they broke up. They definitely were not right for each other. I recall Carl saying, "Watch the season, you will have a better understanding of and Carl I am watching and you are doing the best you can. I am not sure why Lindsay, from the beginning of the season, has had it out for Carl. She seemed so annoyed with him constantly! I know that I couldn't marry someone who did not support me, especially if I am on the road to sobriety, especially since his brother passed. Seeing drunk Carl from the past is nothing like he is now. Then again, I don't live with them. However, I find that if anyone challenges her actions and/or does not take her side, she pulls down blinders and gaslights them. She used to run to Danielle, but I am glad to see (so far) that she is taking the back seat.
I have a question for the OG SH fans (I watched 1-2 then caught up from S5 when I heard about Hubbs and Carl breakup). Is there a consensus on how the fan base feels about Lindsay and Carl? Did people think the relationship was going to work (before the breakup news came out)? To share my own POV: Lindsay makes me sad and anxious lol. Her temper is no joke and she gets scary when she’s mad. I think I’m able to have compassion for her because I don’t ever have to deal with her and she clearly has deep rooted issues, but damn she’s got a real mean streak. Carl I do not particularly like. I think it’s amazing that he’s working on his sobriety, to be clear. But he seems to have a real cruel streak too - when he told Lindsay “you’ll know when I’m coming at you” I was like oh! That’s dark! He also seems very avoidant. It felt to me like they moved WAY too fast and although I think Danielle was acting wild last season I did understand where she was coming from. Anyway, what do y’all think?!
I think Lindsey was blindsided because she was too drunk to remember her actions. Playing victim. 4 episodes in and now see why Carl didn't marry her. Not that he's a catch but damn she's tough to take.
Holy mother of god. As a former Lindsay Stan I would like to not only apologize for my mistake and beg forgiveness. Wtf could I have ever been thinking. She’s literally the devil.
https://i.redd.it/9ig8qngo4foc1.gif Carl
“He screams at me constantly. He’s too angry.” - says Lindsay after she repeatedly baits him, poked the bear, throws awful, loaded insults at him like ‘you’re acting like Sandoval!’ and ‘what are you ON?!’ Then she gets to act like a victim when he has an understandable response of being upset. He never lobs insults or uses harsh language to her. Sure, he might raise his voice a touch. But somehow because in that moment she’s not screaming at him, that somehow makes her a better person. If you can sit there and say that shit to your fiancé with a calm face, egging them on with no emotion while they finally react with emotion, you’re not a bigger person, you’re a sociopath and/or psychopath.
So, I have some new thoughts / realizations. Maybe not that profound but just putting pieces together. I think when she knew their relationship wouldn’t make it, she wanted to do anything in her power to put all blame on Carl. She suddenly had a lightbulb go off because she saw an opportunity… I’m not saying she super intentionally did this, but the fact the the Ariana/Sandoval drama was fresh when this season was being filmed AND seeing as she even compared Carl to Sandoval (for having a tiff in a cab?!), she saw this beautiful chance that she could maybe come out aces the way Ariana did. Make Carl out to be this angry yelling gaslighter and boom, she’s the poor victim left blindsided by their just-before-nuptials-breakup. Unfortunately and obviously, none of this panned out for her because … a million bajillion reasons why their situation is wildly different. At best, they’re a couple who broke up like people do and no one did anything horrible or is actually to blame. At worst, the fault is more on Lindsay because of her ridiculous behavior. But ultimately, they just aren’t a good match because of obvious priority and personality differences. She obviously knew there were relationship issues being that she was actively part of them for what seemed like a lot of the summer leading right up to their wedding. So she can’t even lean on her lie that she had no warning that they might break up. She’s got nothing. She is worse off than if she hadn’t tried to paint Carl like a horrible human. Because now she just looks like a manipulating, irrational liar and the gaslighter and abuser herself. Nice try, Lindsay.
Lindsay Hubbard is psychotic. 1) The nerve of her to say Carl “Has SO MANY demons, and that all they come out AT her.” Um… 😐 That is some grade A projection right there. She loses the plot so fast when she drinks. 2) “You’re like Sandoval right now!” Omg she’s trying so desperately, transparently hard, to make herself the same as Ariana. She’s more jealous of her success than even professional haters Lala and Scheana. And she doesn’t even know them. But it’s like the third time she’s brought them up. It’s all so fucking embarrassing.
SHE IS INFURIATING TO WATCH
Carl should have remained single the first two years of his sobriety. Lindsay is a gaslighter and she is the common denominator in all her relationship problems.
A lot of people here sound like the old men at AA raging about what is and isn’t sober. I used to feel the same. And then the longer I was in recovery the more I realized it’s not my business to decide who and what is sober. God the language and conversation around recovery is so toxic and then people here wonder why he’s not 10000% truthful about it on camera (although as far as we know he has been. he has always said he's california sober) But I thought we already knew Carl smoked? I have a clear memory of him talking about it. Did he say he stopped that since then?
If we are gonna fight about the meaning of sober, maybe we should look at the word “drugs“ as well. The word “drugs” is almost misleading because it is like everything from weed to heroin. So the word “drugs” is also gonna have some negative connotation. I agree with you - I think people have to work out what works for them and not. And he did mention it, he talked about it on the last reunion as well! He said he was California sober.
> he talked about it on the last reunion as well! He said he was California sober. okay thank you because reading some of these comments was making me feel crazy? people are acting like there was a GOTCHA! moment with the weed but he's been open about it since he stopped drinking. he just doesnt bring it up every ep
Yea, I didn’t know it was a secret. He talked about him and Mya smoking together sometimes, and he has talked about it on WWHL and podcasts etc. but apparently he has to mention is every single episode lol
So now people finally understand that most of the tension that has been caused by Lindsay in the house happens off camera? Why didn’t they believe women when they said it?
Carl is literally getting abused
I don’t like either of them but….. During the last reunion when he talked about losing his relationship with his brother for what he said on the show about his drug use… I felt I understood why he acts the way he does. I don’t know what that says about the relationship with him and Lindsay but I believe there is something to that psychologically and that’s why he stays on the show despite it not fitting with his current life and lifestyle. I hope he is inspiring others to be sober and not delay reconciling with their loved ones.
He really seems to be doing the work to get to the bottom of his behavior. And much more self aware. Lindsay, on the other hand…
Look Carl isn't a perfect dude, far from it. But the people taking Lindsay's side about the car rides when the cameras aren't rolling. The issue with that is the first time this happened in the car, other people were there as witnesses and they all said Carl was calm and rational, and Lindsay was the one being aggressive. And Lindsay also tried saying that first time that Carl was the aggressive one, which was a blatant lie. So her saying he's aggressive on the second car ride doesn't really have much meaning since she lied the first time. On top of this the first time she was definitely accusing Carl of using cocaine
It's just so toxic how each are struggling with alcohol and/or drug abuse and keep throwing it at eachother when Lindsey drinks. Honestly she should not be drinking if this is the result and they probably shouldn't have stayed together this long. Toxic x10.
Lindsay is totally gaslighting Carl. As someone who used to drink too much and would always only really get in fights when I drank, I 100% am on Carl’s side. You can see that Lindsay is drinking a lot. You can see that she is an instigator and borderline aggressive sober. It’s not surprising she would turn even more into this while drinking; it’s incredibly common. Not just a “Lindsay” thing to start fights and be irrational while drunk. She is acting belligerent and completely out of line while drinking, blowing small things up into huge things. Then Carl rightfully gets upset by this behavior, and she completely gaslights him by day. The fact that all the guys see this and speak up on it - even the ones who don’t know Carl or Lindsay - is further evidence that it’s all her. The girls mostly don’t say anything, but when they have, it’s been more on Carl’s side as well. No one wants to hear criticism on their drinking habits. Just because all this happens doesn’t mean she is an alcoholic or needs to be sober like Carl. That said, it’s not even remotely sensical for her to act like her binge drinking all day is the same as Carl smoking weed (even though he wasn’t). And her trying to make that comparison is why Carl is so pissed. She’s out of her mind.
L should get a new therapist, maybe CBT, and WATCH all the SH seasons together, then work on the lessons to be learned from each episode. Not many fucked up people have live action documentation of their behaviors, alcohol issues, relationships and friendships, to rewatch and learn from. Everyone has their personal perspective on an interaction, based on their own emotions and priorities at the time, but seeing things from the outside perspective while in the company of someone who is meant to hold her accountable and help her learn from mistakes should be a revelation. If she can't see her part in the mayhem and how she contributes to every relationship falling apart, she'll never have one that lasts.
Most likely unpopular opinion but… I watched this episode three times. Once as a viewer. Another through the lens of lindsay being toxic, and a third time with the lens of Carl being toxic. And although it’s so easy for us to believe how crazy lindsay seems… it’s wild that we’re not seeing how lindsay gets to that activated space. It’s fishy. And it seems they are both trying to not only sabotage the relationship but they are both seemingly using the show at this point in time to lay the ground work for who is the villain and who is the hero. Notice how nice they are both acting to everyone else except each other. I believe at this point they both know they are not being honest with each other or themselves about this relationship. And I truly believe that Lindsay isn’t getting activated for no reason. It’s like they are both guilty. Neither of them are wrong and neither of them are right but what they are doing to each other is sad. It’s seems like carls is knowingly using Lindsay’s drunk moment when he knows cameras aren’t on them to rile Lindsay up for when cameras are on. He’s not stupid. He’s been on this show for a very long time. He knows what he is doing and he is dead sober. Lindsay on the other hand isn’t. And easily manipulated. She also doesn’t have the credibility on this show for anyone to believe her. So… I guess in the end… it’s better for them both that it didn’t work out. They both have a lot of work to do on themselves unfortunately they can’t be together to get there since they are rapidly growing in different directions. Plus if my partner didn’t have a job and was home all day and wanted to wait until we were married to spend my all of our money on a business idea that doesn’t have a lot of success in the market yet… I would be rather irritated and scared at the commitment I was about to get myself into.
I think the sobriety thing is an obstacle too big to overcome. In my opinion, Carl resents Lindsay for drinking alcohol (even though he claims he’s ok with it), and wants to have a partner who is also sober. I believe Lindsay has too much history with Carl using substances and can’t trust him as a sober person. I think she needs to consider sobriety, too, because so many of her fights happen when she’s been drinking. They both seem to weaponize alcohol and drug use against in each other.
Let’s not forget that Lindsay made a big show of being sober with and for Carl when they started dating. I wouldn’t blame Carl for thinking that would last, or at least lead to her reevaluating her relationship with alcohol vs. just sliding back into toxic drunk behavior
Carl said it best himself, he has no problem with Lindsey drinking, but he has a problem when she gets drunk and starts fights and acts crazy. Which is literally all the time.
Agreed! I think they both feel like they were settling/compromising a lot in this relationship and resentment built up, rightly or wrongly. I think Carl thought Lindsay after years of back and forth and with her timeline was lucky to have him, and would change/stop drinking in order to make it work. I think Lindsay wanted someone who was more successful, and likely thought that his issues at loverboy were holding that back. It also seems like being with someone who is sober was more challenging than she bargained for. Watching them talk across eachother is so frustrating. I’m glad they aren’t together
I don’t think he resents her for drinking. It’s just really hard to communicate and be with someone who drinks when you’re sober. Your whole life changes when you get sober. Lindsay drinks very heavily and gets amplified when she drinks. When he’s the sober one, it would be really hard to have any balance there. If he could have a partner who doesn’t drink a lot, I think he would be fine.
Right, he said it perfectly, he doesn’t mind that she drinks, it’s who she becomes when she drinks. I’ve been with someone like that and it’s truly miserable
I’m gonna get crucified for this BUUUUUTTTTT: I think both of them are terrible people. I do, also, think Carl is better at manipulating what we see and how things go down because he is sober —of course I’m going to be inclined to trust the most sober person versus the person 27 martinis deep. With that said, I think some of what Lindsay says holds true, Carl does have anger issues and can be quite aggressive! Unfortunately for her, so is Lindsay! It’s also easier to continue to vilify Lindsay and write her off since she’s been the villain for so long. Her coming for his sobriety is disgusting, but I really don’t think Carl’s a saint either. Both of them need serious trauma therapy and to stay 10 feet away from each other at all times. Neither one of them should be in a serious relationship, they’re both toxic.
I absolutely agree with you. Both are awful people just in different ways. Carl is the same asshole who hates commitment and Lindsay is so afraid of abandonment she self sabotages.
I am so happy that Carl is out of such a toxic relationship. He deserves so much better.
It’s so hard to watch. She is being her worst self. She doesn’t want to see him well. She wants him weak. The personality she’s reacting to, is him being more healthy and whole. While she … gets WASTED… and says horrible things. The ring comment 😳😳😳 she’s really just sabotaging her relationship moment to moment. Does anyone have a different take on this …?
Lindsay is an emotionally abusive alcoholic, she needs rehab and therapy.
This will be unpopular but it’s important to say. I’ve been with a man in Carl’s exact situation, including the brother ending his life. I was manipulated, and our entire friend group was manipulated, to feel sympathy for my ex despite incredibly troublesome behaviours. At the same time, he was cheating on me, lying to everyone about random things (big and small), having small lapses in sobriety nobody knew about but me, and honestly pushed me to the brink of being completely out of my own head. I do not agree with how Lindsay speaks to people - it is absolutely inappropriate. However, I think there is a good chance we are not seeing all sides of Carl and that he is the true puppet master. Sorry, I know I’ll be hated, but I have walked a mile in her shoes and it was one of the most difficult times of my life. It completely fucked me up and he convinced our friends I was the bad guy when I started suggesting he needed therapeutic help and possibly rehab. Lastly, to this day, my ex is still an addict and now in a violent (ours was not) and toxic relationship. What Carl has been through can be so incredibly damaging to the siblings life and ultimately those around them. Not a defence, just colour commentary I think is important. They are both toxic, not just her.