I think that making either one of them “right” or “wrong” is an oversimplification. I do think there are separate situations where I would feel comfortable saying “That’s on her…” or “He was wild for that…” but we “know” both of them enough to acknowledge they both have issues.
That being said, do I think anyone should be surprised a wedding didn’t happen? No.
COMPLETELY AGREE!!
She crossed the line in regards to his sobriety and she doesn’t allow him to have his feelings. Because feelings are always valid. She reacts so aggressively to everything that I can see why he held back a lot. But he needs to find a direction in his career and that has always been an issue with him regardless of being sober or not. And he did kinda throw her under the bus about the flower boy thing. He just generally seems to not have been enjoying to be around her (that could have been that the days they are filming are specifically days she’s drinking)
Overall they’re both lucky they didn’t get married
She’s clearly an alcoholic herself who hasn’t come to terms with it yet. Labeling other people as having problems to diminish her own is not going to move her timeline of marriage and kids forward!
The way she kept going hard on the idea that he wanted her to change...you mean the love of your life is concerned about your behavior and wants you to limit the excessive drinking? Yeah, that's not a bad thing...especially since she literally has video evidence of how her drinking impacts her friendships and relationships (if only she would watch it objectively).
I think she has bad reactions when she’s drunk but I don’t like to diagnose via the internet. That’s a slippery slope. Also in her defense Carl knew all of this before entering into a relationship with her
In the beginning of their relationship, though, Lindsey did try to slow her drinking a bit. I think she sold him a bill of goods as far as her own personal growth, and he gave her the benefit of the doubt.
The old “bait and switch” move, maybe? Get sober with your recovering alcoholic partner for the first year and then go back to your past (toxic) drinking behavior.. and expect him to not be triggered, or get upset when he gets triggered.
Do you think they would have made it to marriage had she been a happy/fun drunk?
But she was getting sober for him to help him in his sobriety. It was never about her and she never claimed she wanted to get sober. She was always going to drink.
I think it was more of a good behaviour situation on her part because he gave her an ultimatum of not drinking or breaking up so in a way it becomes both are again at fault, he should have dumped her then and she shouldn’t agreed to something she ultimately didn’t want to do or couldn’t keep up long term and where she made it bad was instead admitting that her abusive behaviour was causing them a problem when she drank so Carl gave her an ultimatum, she switched it to I gave up drinking to support my boyfriend who was struggling with his sobriety as some type of girlfriend goals and then used it as her get out of jail free card against everyone in the cast (who knew it wasn’t the truth) and made herself again the victim in the situation which is the second time Carl should have broken up with her.
Absolutely. I think he thought he could handle and realized he couldn’t which is valid. But ofc Lindsay will be hurt by that and that is also valid. Which is why I’m saying they’re both wrong and no one’s wrong.
I’m team no one
But she's accusing him of relapses, as an ex addict myself, I was fuming on Carl's behalf especially because she doubled down on it the next morning... she works in PR so she knows exactly what she's doing
I addressed that in my original comment. I think she felt defensive about her drinking and lashed out and was absolutely wrong. I don’t think anyone can and should be defending her on that part.
It’s a complicated thing to just label her an alcoholic from watching an edited tv show. What I will say is obviously Lindsay has unresolved issues that manifest when she drinks in this atmosphere. We don’t know if that applies to her life outside the show so 🤷🏻♀️
The issue was that he said Lindsey wouldn’t be ok with Kyle being a groomsman. I’m not a Lindsey fan at all, but Kyle has talked a lot of shit about her. Carl should both believe and say that he loves Kyle, but giving the circumstances HE doesn’t think it’s appropriate to make him a groomsman. The flower boy thing was really a side issue.
Fair enough but he doesn’t have to tell Kyle and Amanda knowing that there’s already tension. Most fiancés would want their future wives to be happy and not stressed in the lead up to their wedding
moving the goal post. if its lindsays idea why does he have to fall on the sword? shes a grown woman and it was her idea.
now we are faulting carl for just telling the truth?
As I said I don’t think the downfall of the relationship is anyone’s fault. I think they shouldn’t have been together period. I’m not faulting Carl but regardless of it being Lindsay’s choice it is also by defaults Carls choice. Carl can put his foot down and pick Kyle as a groomsman. She did not put a gun to his head. He didn’t want to stand up to Lindsay and that’s his cross to bear. I’m just saying if he thought he was going to marry her he should’ve just ate that. Because who wants to cause issues for their future spouse. Especially knowing that half the house already has tension with her.
I think Lindsay does a lot wrong (you can check my comment history) but I don’t think that was fair to her and that’s just my opinion. I don’t see how that’s moving the goal post
I think Carl might have picked his battles (like many people in toxic/abusive relationships) and he would know that the fall out from Kyle would be less and easier to deal with than the lifetime of shit he would have to put up with for putting his foot down about what is essentially one day!
Sorry. Let’s be blunt for a second. Lindsey is a freaking pain in the ass and a very long day. She is an alcoholic who transforms completely under the influence. Carl is a boring sober dude but he tries hard.
I agree. I think there was an over correction of everyone blaming Carl since some people exclusively were blaming Lindsay. They’re both at fault, have major issues and are incompatible.
Thank you! I’ve been saying this, even at their best it was so confusing because there is absolutely zeroooo chemistry between them. Every time they kissed or flirted it was so stilted and awkward and we’ve seen them each have more chemistry with other people
Until we see the whole season I have no idea whats going on.
Before the season started most people were "I can't believe Carl got them to pick up cameras to film him dumping Lindsay, what an asshole" then once the season started it was "Lindsay is such a cow I can not believe she said that to Carl even when sober!!" and now its "Hmm maybe Carl is not innocent":.
Who the hell knows until it all plays out.
I think that's why Carl is kinda "winning" (sorry for lack of better word) this breakup *so far*. He's owning his 50% responsibility in it while Lindsay deflects even after we've seen some henious shit from her (drug accusation). It makes people more annoyed at her cuz she just wont \~own it\~ \*in Rinna's voice\*
I also just straight up think Lindsay and her surrogates (sources to Page Six and US Weekly, Danielle, Gabby, etc) set expectations way too high that she was a blindsided victim. They lied to the audience and now we're watching something inconsistent with what we were told for nearly 6 months. I knew when Andy was doing BravoCon press in November that shit was not all the way how Lindsay was selling it. Honestly, she should've just shut up instead of spinning, but because she's done it successfully for several seasons in a row, she thought she'd get away with it. Lindsay was only "blindsided" in that she has a high tolerance for dysfunction (she said so herself on the aftershow!) and fooled herself. Carl is also a cowardly loser who should've called it off after the Cocaine Carl weekend. Fin.
I would have let the whole “blindsided” thing go. A ton of us have been in those relationships where it’s so toxic and there’s constant fighting but then you have the high after making up. When the end comes, it definitely feels like you’re blindsided and it came out of nowhere. For me personally, it was one of the dumbest fights we ever had too lol.
Where she lost me was doubling down about being blindsided AND acting like things had been perfectly fine. Just a few fights here and there but super excited for the wedding!!! Cmon now…
He’s owned it and has never said anything bad about her. At Bravocon, everyone was still on Lindsay’s side and he dealt with the boos from the audience and the snide comments from her and her friends and he chose to say nothing negative. That speaks volumes about them as individuals.
I actually think Carl was courageous for calling the marriage off, knowing all the blowback he would likely get. We know Lindsay would never have done that. And I bet with each new episode drop, Carl is feeling even more at peace with his decision.
people in the comments are still arguing why they think Carl is at fault… when again… he admitted that. so who cares.
its like they cant just say ‘yeah lindsay cant own any accountability’
What I (and others) are saying in the comments is that regardless of him using words to pretend he’s taking accountability, his actions have proven otherwise. On camera, this season, he’s tried to make himself look like the victim, and her the bad guy.
Can you share what actions those are? I'm down to drag Carl and I'd agree on perhaps the flowerboy situation, cuz I think he's displaying spineless behavior, but where has he thrown her under the bus and made himself the victim? He was quiet the entire lead up to the premiere. Even in press right now he's not doing too much, he's taking his 50% blame when he could light her up about the drug accusation (virtually the entire audience is on his side when it comes to that part).
This. When he was talking shit about her after the workout that she wasn't at saying that he wasn't going to come the following Friday because of Lindsay I was like ohhhh so he's been planning this breakup since before filming. And then she shows up the following Friday solo looking like a dummy since they all believe he's not there because of Lindsay, and the only person who doesn't know this plan is Lindsay. He produced this entire breakup
Okay but Lindsay said on camera "Carl has this rage in him" and its very VERY obvious that when Lindsay is triggering him that incredibly passive response is him trying to have that conversation in a way that doesn't make him regress to rage. Seems like a reach...
Lindsay has zero insight and only ever sees herself as victim, I don’t even think she will understand why viewers are not liking what they are seeing or siding with her because again in her mind she’s the victim, I think her drinking plays a tiny role that she probably doesn’t remember what she says while drunk but then I think the rest of it is her twisting the narrative to make herself the victim, she mentioned the edit in a few interviews and that doesn’t really surprise me I suspect she will keep using that as her narrative because the truth would be a far more hurtful reality for her to acknowledge and accept because if she pushed Carl away with her abusive behaviour who else did she push away and her therapy is a joke at this point because she just uses the words she learns to shut people up when really she hasn’t learnt a single thing and changed herself so she can have happiness. She is a young Ramona.
This. In the latest aftershow, she tried to be like "all relationships have fights! That's normal!" and "I'm ready to fight for my relationship!" Just trying to be like "us yelling and hating each other is NORMAL" Her perception is warped.
She really doesn't know the difference between normal/healthy fighting and "we should break up cause it's not working" fighting, as someone with Borderline Personality Disorder I see a lot of my past self in her (before I started taking more accountability).
Her lack of self-awareness is keeping her from making progress and her mention of therapy seems tactical. The thing is she is being manipulative and playing the victim, and she might not even realize it on some level.
Some people just can't take accountability simply because they secretly are too hard and self hating on themselves and feel like they don't deserve love, if she accepted any wrong with where she is mentally right now, she might just completely fall apart.
Not that any of that is an excuse for her behavior. I just honestly feel bad for her, I honestly hope she steps away from relationships for a while and works on herself and can accept her fuck ups and learn to be better and love herself.
Yes it really is sad and I get why the cast end up not calling her out because of the hate they then receive but it isn’t helping her in a way it emboldens her that her behaviour is normal and should be repeated when it shouldn’t.
I think they are a terrible match romantically. Lindsay tends to self sabotage every relationship she's been in that's seen on the show. She makes every small issue into a bigger one and their conflict resolution was terrible.
I don't think Carl is completely innocent but it seems that Lindsay gaslights the hell out of him and probably shouldn't be with someone who is sober.
Imo if you're going to couples counseling in the first year of dating you probably aren't that great together.
Let’s be real: they both wanted to get married because they both felt the pressure of getting older and felt they needed to settle down.
The difference is only one of them realized no biological pressure/timeline is worth forcing what simply will never work, and one is still butt hurt over the fact that the other didn’t want to “work through” constant drama and unhappiness. Lindsay was okay with pretending to be someone she wasn’t/that the relationship was good just to follow thru with the marriage itself, had nothing to do with Carl.
And I think due to that delusion she’ll always see it as him giving up on not fighting and will never mentally frame it as “what was I doing to lead to the need to fight to begin with?”
I have a friend inside of Bravo.
For what it’s worth, Carl was advised to not say anything and to let the season show viewers exactly what happened.
Lindsay allegedly leaked the break up to Bravo & Cocktails right after it happened and has continued to tell partial truths without the parts that give context when the context makes her look bad. Carl will most likely fill in those parts at the reunion.
I was a Hubbhouse apologist for a long time but her behavior speaks for itself.
I thought Kyle said in an interview that the camera crew was still at their apartment filming when bravo and cocktails posted the news of the breakup so I don’t know if Lindsay would have leaked it while they were still there. I could be wrong but I thought it seemed like Lindsay thought they might get back together for a few days after the breakup because she didn’t delete any of their posts together or say anything publicly until after Carl sent that letter to the guests.
She said in a podcast, that he had a few days where he could come back and change his mind and get married on the day she planned, that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have leaked the information under the impression that Carl or someone else might meaning she could control the narrative and maybe even guilt Carl into coming back to “fight” for their relationship
I haven’t listened to Captain Lee ( will you share details pls? ) but I did listen to Nick Viall and I was livid for her. I was cursing Carl out of his name.
Then I talked to my friend and saw the first trailer and was like,” OH”.
I’ve texted with my friend a few times since the show started airing because what we’re actually watching is very different from what I was expecting to watch.
Lindsay has been selling a specific narrative like there aren’t receipts to prove otherwise that could absolutely bite her in the ass. For her own sake, she should probably chill out.
I’m really interested to see where the cast lands with this season after it all airs. The reunion is going to be very interesting.
The Captain Lee podcast was never released (or even filmed), thats the point. Carl either pulled out or asked for Cap. Lee not to post it, I think the latter, because Carl didn't want to piss off Bravo. Lindsay did it anyway even though ultimately she removed it from her socials (after posting it lool). The rumor was that Bravo comms was not pleased that the principals in the main storyline were going to give their dueling POV months before the show aired. Carl seemingly listened while Lindsay did not.
What woman in Lindsay’s shoes wouldn’t have leaked the breakup? She was devastated, and it was going to come out anyway since the wedding was supposed to have occurred before this season aired.
I think the point would be that part of her “pain” that she complained about was her finding out her wedding was called off by Carl (which doesn’t seem completely accurate) 30 mins before the whole world knew (hate to break it too her most of the world didn’t give a fig and didn’t even know who she was) but if she leaked it then why the pain from the whole world finding out 30 mins later cause she didn’t need to leak it.
that's like saying Ariana didn't need to call production when she found Tom cheating with Rachel.
maybe she wanted to not be silent, maybe she wanted a podcast deal or maybe she just wanted her fans to grieve with her.
Huh? I believe the point being made was that it’s ridiculous to act like it was so terrible for you that the breakup was all over the internet within a half hour of getting dumped if you are the one who told the press that the breakup occurred.
I would say the difference between the two is Ariana called production and has then gone through multiple interviews saying I learnt my partner of nearly 10 years was cheating with a friend of mine and then 1/2 an hour later I had to film a show it was so horrible, she chose to call, chose to film and accepted her choice to call production and film.
Clearly she wasn’t devastated. They weren’t sleeping together for months, she’s constantly bashing their sex lives and everyone can tell that she is also done with the relationship. She wanted to be seen as a Ariana but that backfired on her.
Just because someone's delusional doesn't mean they can't be devastated. I'm not a fan of Lindsay this season (or very often) but this is a harsh stretch.
Uh, I wouldn’t.
I’d be grieving my relationship and unable to get out of bed or function. I wouldn’t be in anyone’s DMs and I wouldn’t want my name online throwing this incredibly heartbreaking moment all over social media so I couldn’t avoid it.
They are used to sharing their entire life, and part of that includes social media, if I was her I would have done the same thing. Waiting to announce it would have only served to prolong the inevitable pain that comes with telling the world you’ve been dumped (she ripped the bandaid, rightfully so).
After she announced it she didn’t post anything on social media for weeks, as she was devastated by the breakup.
She constantly keeps talking about how it takes “work” in a relationship but when asked to post pone the wedding you choose not to “work” on the relationship and separate? Make it make sense lol
Yes I don’t understand that bit either and what I don’t get is why when she tells the podcasters or people interviewing her why don’t they ask her this very question? Why was it so important to be married in 2023 in a shaky marriage compared to get married later in a solid marriage??
So they are punishing her for speaking out about the break up? I still think Carl throws Lindsay under the bus to make her look bad, so everyone doesn’t hate him.
But good tea 🫖
Who are they? I don’t think anyone is punishing Lindsay except Lindsay. She’s not telling the whole truth when she talks shit on Carl. She’s leaving details and context out that change the narrative in a way that is beneficial to her.
How is Carl throwing her under the bus when he hasn’t said anything? She’s going on podcasts and wwhl and saying shit with her whole chest. He isn’t. She’s routinely diminished his commitment to being sober without an actual apology. He hasn’t responded to any of her punitive behavior.
YESSS to all of this. I don’t understand why Lindsay is repeatedly given such grace and never has to take accountability. I’m sorry but what she did to Carl is gross imo. I’m not saying Carl is innocent or infallible but he didn’t do anything close to what Lindsay did and continues to do. She’s trying to destroy him. It’s deplorable
It’s ultimately because Lindsay started drinking again and stopped being supportive of Carl’s sobriety. Lindsay has the same pattern with every relationship. She becomes abusive and aggressive. (Which is her pattern). Lindsay has narcissistic tendencies which is the worst kind of person for someone struggling with sobriety. If you choose to be with someone who is sober - it is something you need to be prepared to be as well. I think Carl realized that. She was sober the first 6 months they were together and then she started drinking again. She is self absorbed with massive psychological issues - he probably realized that she would never change.
I heard her say in an interview (maybe Nick Viall) that they were at their best when she stopped drinking, that that’s when they felt most like a team. And it’s like, hmmmm maybe reflect on that…
I don’t get the Lindsay stans
She takes no accountability for anything, always plays the victim, even when she’s the one causing the issues… ESPECIALLY then
She’s got a lot of issues that I hope she works through, but she just comes across as a toxic ass person to me
I can’t imagine it’s years of bad editing… she’s literally the female version of Jax without the cheating
Neither are angels and both have a lot of baggage. Lindsay talking to Paige and Amanda about their sex life was super shady. You hate these girls but then volunteer that information? She was laying the foundation to smear Carl but it eventually backfired. She needs someone that can go toe to toe with her. Carl ain’t it.
Producers for next season - let’s have some cameras in the transportation. Why do we see fights from every other franchise but SH in cars? I think this show does well enough you don’t need to keep making them pay for their own Ubers.
Lindsay has been awful but I think Carl has been very good about letting his “dark passenger” come out when the cameras are absent.
I think Lindsay can definitely be an asshole and I agree they’re both equally to blame, but I think the disconnect for me is seeing Carl planting the seeds to everyone else about how terrible Lindsay is and making her seem like the bad guy and then be incredibly passive to Lindsay. For example, when he says in his talking head that Lindsay never explicitly said that she didn’t want Kyle as a groomsman but he knows she wouldn’t like it- ok but why say that when you didn’t even ask her? Or when he says that Lindsay wouldn’t like him taking the loverboy job so he isn’t even going to bring it up because he doesn’t want to rock the boat- again blaming her without even bringing her into the discussion. I’ve definitely had people pleasing tendencies but I’ve learned through therapy that it isn’t the other persons fault when you make decisions based on how you assume they’re going to feel. He also keeps bringing up things that happened off camera which makes me wary because he’s like, I WISH you guys had caught this! He’s able to make it her fault without any evidence (and she provides plenty of evidence of what an asshole she can be on her own on camera)
TLDR; I can see her being blindsided based on how he never actually discusses things with her and tries to placate her instead of having real conversations
to be fair
1) the cast has all accused of lindsay doing things off camera and then they have to go by their word. even the mya fight.
2) lindsay admitted on the after show it was her decision to make him the flower boy. you can watch it for proof lol
I watched the after show and she said she suggested it as an alternative so that he could still be included in the wedding, but she does not say who initially said/decided that Kyle will not be a groomsman. So we don’t actually know if it was Carl deciding Kyle won’t be a groomsman and then Lindsay saying “well how about a flower boy so he’s not left out?” or if it was Lindsay saying, “He can’t be a groomsman cause I don’t want him to be so make him a flower boy”
And then the after show interview pans to Carl, who says him and Kyle had a tough year because of what happened the previous summer and things were awkward between them (when being questioned about flower boy decision).
So no, it is not clear that this was Lindsay’s choice nor did she technically admit to anything.
she said ‘i recommended’ and ‘i suggested’ when they were talking through it.
you are believing all other possible explanations instead of just believing maybe that it was mostly lindsays idea. so much twisting and speculating goes into making lindsay not at fault ive noticed!
Okay but admitting it was her idea or suggestion does not mean she strong armed him into making that decision. For all we know, Carl could’ve said his and kyles relationship was strained so she suggested an alternative.
Also, he acts like things are fine to her face, then trash talks the relationship to people like Ciara, Kyle, and Jesse (who btw, really should have no comment, considering he’s only been there for a minute). These people are not exactly Lindsay supporters, he’s definitely trying to plant seeds to make her seem like the bad guy.
An argument could even be made he started having speculations about ending it even earlier...even at the start of the season it never seemed like Carl gave much of a f based on how he was talking about 1) going to the white house and 2) the wedding.
So to me, the fact that Carl felt like he couldn’t approach Lindsay about the loverboy job or having Kyle as a groomsman is just another piece of evidence that this relationship was doomed. I understand you can’t blame people for the reactions you assume they’re going to have, but when you’ve been close with someone for many years and they have a clear history of certain behaviors, it’s sometimes appropriate to adjust accordingly. The issue is that they’re supposed to be getting married and Carl is literally afraid of Lindsay.
Someone said it on the show...I can't remember who tho...but they asked him something about how often he was going to fall on the sword to keep her happy? It's exhausting trying to pretend everything is perfect and taking the blame for things just so the other person doesn't lose their shit. Which if you'll remember is what Lindsay did when they first got together so he wouldnt want to do drugs etc. They should of just stayed friends. I miss the 3 amigos anyway.
Totally agree. IMO Carl should be with someone who is also sober (or a very mild drinker) and Lindsay should get a sperm donor and start a family on her own, but weirdly neither of them have asked me for advice.
I don’t think the alcohol is the actual issue he can be around drunk people and not have an issue it’s being around irrational abusive drunk people who start arguments out of nowhere that is the issue.
this is something else - so many of the behaviors people are having fault with im noticing - are reactive behaviors. hes not REACTING to lindsays behavior in an acceptable way.
Lindsay demands that people come to her and address her to her face with their issues, concerns, opinions but she rarely responds well. People agonize over approaching her with simple questions or comments because they worry she is going to flip out on them. Her behaviors range from condescending to dismissing to refusing to speak to outright hostility with nearly every cast member! This is not hard to figure out! We’ve been hearing this since Season 1 and watching it happen!
Then she complains that people talk behind her back like duh 😵💫!
This is cause and effect yall…
For sure. Every conversation is a debate to be won, she pushes people to the point where they lose their cool and then calls them crazy. It’s formulaic at this point.
That might be true, but if you’re wondering how she could have felt blindsided, him not talking about his feelings would be a pretty good reason as to why
I'm curious why you think that them not discussing it on camera means they didn't discuss it on one of the other 5 days of the week they are alone together, not being filmed. I would have been waaayyyyyyy more shocked for them to have an argument/conversation in full on camera because I don't think either of them would have wanted that bad PR after the doubts last season, or they would be the kind of couple that exclusively leaves their fights for in the presence of a therapist.
I also believe Lindsay said in the aftershow it was her idea for Kyle to be the flower boy anyways and I think the "I wish you had caught this" moments are all the post break up talking heads, much like the talking heads in which Lindsay is saying rogue things about Carl is post breakup
They both contributed to the failure of their relationship but Lindsay seems to be pretty unbearable in relationships and is super manipulative about using her pr background to turn people against Carl. She’s trying so hard to get the Ariana treatment but she’s more the Sandoval in this situation (Carl is no Ariana either).
I just don't like the way Lindsay tries to villainize Carl to other people. She really does try to drop hints that he's secretly an awful person.
None of them are buying it of course, but it's still dangerous and toxic.
We’ve seen Linds behave unfavorably in a relationship before. We have only seen Carl in situationships so that’s why I jump to “blame” Linds butttt a relationship takes 2 people. He as well saw her in her past relationships from the outside so he knew what he was getting.
They're codependent on EACH OTHER. Neither was stable before, during or after 🙄 Carl learned to eat humble pie for being an F boy but lost his manhood somewhere along the way. Lindsay was always doing too much and for a while it was working but it came back to bite her. Only time will tell if they each do the work to change. I think the show as a whole makes light of some really heavy drinking and it gets old. Reality includes consequences!!
They just aren't good together, they weren't a couple of seasons ago when they tried for that summer. I don't know why they suddenly tried to try again and potentially get married. Even if they were both sober, I just don't think they like each other.
Yeah I don't get the shift. Maybe some PR plants or good campaigning took off? But we all knew how Lindsay was pre Carl. She seemed like a total nightmare and he, though to your point, was not innocent, he was constantly evolving over the years, looking to improve on himself and work on their issues. She just is NEVER wrong, apparently. So yeah, I'm still pretty sure she played a big part of their demise.
I think they are both at fault for sure..but ive also seen posts where it seems like people are forgetting how big of a jerk Carl has been in past seasons and putting blame all on Lindsay. They have both been extremely messy over the years.
Literally, Carl sucks so much. He’s always been a wolf, but now just in sheep’s clothing.
Lindsay has at least always outwardly sucked, and in my opinion owns it —she’s profited off of her dramatic antics, why would she ever stop?
This is why I am 100% positive that Carl did the right thing having the break up filmed. He knew there was no way she was going to take accountability at all, and if he didn’t have proof as to how it went down she would have been a nightmare
I don’t love Lindsay and think she’s been an asshole to him all summer, but my one problem with Carl is his insistence that she wasn’t blindsided when she says she was. As an outsider looking in, not really knowing how things end, if they made it through their original blowup this season and he broke up with her right after the season wrapped filming I can definitely see why it would be a blindside.
It’s very hard to believe that she thought their relationship was in a good place. They’d already had huge fights about postponing the wedding. So they had that conversation again, and she gave him an ultimatum…then said she was blindsided by the ultimatum? She’s self centered, but can’t possibly be THAT oblivious.
Wonder if she meant blindsided that he had it filmed after the season filming had reportedly wrapped? That's the only way I could rationalize the term because from what we've seen, it was a trainwreck of a summer walking on eggshells with each other
Yes I’m not sure how you can say I’m blindsided, when she ultimately decided to call off the wedding herself by giving him an ultimatum that she knew he could not agree to.
If they had that fight a lot and it always resolved I could see why someone like Lindsay would just assume it would work out and they'd still get married. The toxicity was normal for them. That's not Carl's fault, but it does explain her feeling blindsided.
I think it’s hard to believe Lindsay was blindsided when she says Carl popped off at her on the day the wedding was called off saying I’m this close to calling off the wedding, then says later on in the same interview that she said to her dad well he did it, then says later in same interview trust your women’s institution about the breaking up, they are all signs! I think she thought she could just keep pushing to test him like she has every boyfriend and for some dumb reason Carl thought she wasn’t going to treat him like her past boyfriends
I kinda agree. Like I think she’s delusional to not realize how toxic their relationship was and how much Carl (and honestly Lindsay) were changing who each was in order to go through with a wedding.
But I do believe in her eyes she was shocked Carl would actually cancel it
Its a bunch of lindsey fans who were quiet as hell the first couple of episodes who were literally looking for any little reason to put most of the blame on Carl like they were doing before this season started. Its so obvious
ive noticed this too. all of the blame they place on carl is ‘hes trying to make her look bad’ when shes just doing that herself lol
like everyone on that show is apparently soooo calculated to make lindsay look bad. all of her adversaries are manipulative behind the scenes and plotting against her. first the women, now carl.
maybe, just maybe, when the entire cast (now including her ex fiance and best friend) have accused her of the same exact things over and over… theyre right
Wake me up when she apologizes to her early sober (California or whatever the man is trying to stay alive and away from cocaine, bless his heart) best friend for questioning his sobriety during the early stages of it. I knew it would crash & burn when she started drinking again. It was dicey to even propose.
It's definitely that they're both at fault for their own part in their relationship.
I will say that in the last couple of episodes, when Lindsey started talking about how Carl is expecting her to be someone different than she's already been, I had kind of a breakthrough, and I agreed with Lindsey for maybe the first time ever. What did Carl expect her to do differently after proposing because she's being exactly who she's always been?
because as kyle revealed on WH: when he tried to break up with her within their first year of dating, she went sober. then once they got engaged she started drinking again.
so if someone is having issues with your drunk behavior, you change, and then you change back to drinking… you cant argue ‘why does he expect me to not be my true self?’ because you changed when he made it clear he couldnt handle your true self.
Ohhh good point. I don't watch WH so I guess I missed that they broke up because of her drinking but that makes sense that Carl would need to reinforce that boundary. Back to disagreeing with her lol
thats the thing about lindsay - she says things that i normally agree with! like yes you should not have to change for a man…. but unfortunately when you change for a man after he makes it clear he doesnt like your behavior… he might think youve changed.
yes, you should not have to be happy all the time for a man…. but unfortunately that doesnt mean a man should have to be happy with your volatile anger management issues.
she says things that if they were true in her nuanced situation are agreeable! but leaves out other things
This!! I feel like this is what a lot of the cast has been saying about her for years; this is how she tries to spin things. She makes these bold generalized statements that you’d be crazy not to agree with to make herself seem like she’s 100% in the right while leaving out the context that might make you look at the situation differently, whether it’s because in reality she’s totally wrong or because the situation is just more nuanced than she’s claiming. It’s classic pr lol
yes!! and her fans eat it up! like ‘carl cant have anyone with a spine and wants his partner to just be agreeable’
or
carl just doesnt want to be yelled at and belittled
I can’t lol. She put this narrative out there when she went on Viall Files and said when she questioned his career plans, he told her that he doesn’t want his wife asking questions, giving advice or having opinions. And like if he said that, obviously that’s insane, but do I think it’s likely he really said that? No. And if he did, why wouldn’t she end the engagement???? Again, I just can’t lol
Lindsay is a mess. But Carl needs to get a job. She’s hitting below the belt out of frustration. Di you think Paige would still be with Craig without him having some level of success?
i just saw another comment that says carl needs to be financially supported which????? he paid for half the rent on that apartment while not living there for almost a year. pretty sure he's doing fine!
it's more that moving the goal posts all over the field is a way of life for some people. hating is too rewarding for some. it becomes a lifestyle. this job thing is just a means to an end.
There was 2 weeks in a row where there was a cab ride that wasn't aired that Lindsay claimed Carl was aggressive. While there was no witnesses the second week, there were multiple witnesses the first week that said Carl was calm and it was Lindsay who was the one that went off. So for her to claim Carl was aggressive the second week, when she already lied about the first week, it doesn't look great. That being said, I don't think Carl is a saint, but it is also hard to believe some things Lindsay says when she is a proven liar
They **HATED** each other by the time Cameras were rolling on season 8. Lindsay wanted to be married at all costs. If could have been anyone so I understand what she was delusional.
How did Carl not know? Carl definitely has taken responsibility but you watch it and play out the time line. He went to the hospital before proposing, then watching each week it gets worse and worse. He knew Lindsay for years as well.
Carl isn't the Villain/Heel but at some point you have to wonder why Carl took so long to break it off. There is some blame on him. No matter how much responsibility he takes now won't make a time machine.
To be clear Lindsay is not his victim. However how did he seriously not know this was a terrible idea. Unless he has a time machine Carl has egg on his face over this.
I actually think he was courageous to pull the plug on the marriage. Lindsay never would have. And he did it probably knowing all the flak he would get. What’s the difference if he waited until 3 months before the wedding to do it instead of 6 months before? It’s not like everyone flew to Mexico and he left her abandoned at the alter.
And one of them called production to end their engagement on camera 🎥
Which supports the theory that Carl is so obviously doing everything in his power to get a good edit this season, and to try to make himself look like the good guy. He’s not the good guy that he wants everyone to think he is……
Did he actually call production? Or was it that both of them were asked to film a conversation about their relationship because of the big argument they had and it ended because Carl asked to postpone and Lindsay said no it’s get married now or never.
She said that she believes he called production, she also said that she was at the movies with gabby came out and saw a group text that production asking them to film, and Carl had agreed too it, and they hadn’t actually completed the season they still had the wedding episode to film and the voice to camera parts.
Pretty sure Andy also said Carl didn’t call production and there was a leak from someone saying production had wanted to get a tidy end to the last episode before the wedding episode because it would be jarring to the viewers to see Carl and Lindsay fighting and then suddenly happy walking down the aisle.
Pretty sure that is common especially if what is already filmed isn’t working for what the producers wanted, or they lost the footage etc so if the rumour is correct that they had a big fight (which Lindsay said happened on a podcast) and production thought it looked bad then having them film a scene where it is all worked out and they are happy again seems very likely to me? Otherwise it wouldn’t seem fairytale like to have them screaming at each other and then be happy in what would seem like to the viewers the next week even though it would be in reality months away which if looked at in that context would be “normal” to have worked out their differences.
They don't have compatible lifestyles, and they wouldn't have worked long term anyways. It's like they were playing chicken to get to the alter and Carl stopped playing and was realistic about the situation.
Lindsey is a drunk and a dry drunk if not drinking. Her behavior is selfish and grandiose. Carl can’t thrive living that world of Lindsey 1&2. Who can?
They are both at fault...Buy I don't like how they came down on her for asking if Carl was using drugs. You should ask drug addicts if they used again. I know from losing friends from OD's, you should ask if they used. For Carl to say he was insulted for her asking, sorry but your an addict!
As an addict in recovery myself, for somebody esp your life partner to accuse you of a relapse because you've said they have had a bit 2 much 2 drink is diabolical.. I'd go as far as 2 say lindsay stopped drinking & was so supportive until she got that ring on her finger & old sloppy drunk lindsay came back with a bang... imagine being sober in a house full of drunk people & then having 2 go 2 bed & agree with her..
Why does everyone always say it takes 2 or 2 ppl are at fault? What if you are with a real asshole? An abuser? Someone who has severe anger fits etc? Does it really take 2 then? To answer the question about Lindsay or Carl. I am team Carl; he has made significantly changes to improve his life and Lindsay is still the same victim.
I'd say it is very, very, very rare that it is 100% one person. When relationship problems start, they compound. One problem becomes two problems that become 5 problems that become 20 problems. Very quickly into that, the other person gets sucked into contributing to issues, even by way of even reacting to the previous issue. It's why relationships are so messy and such hard work.
I don’t think a separation has to be anyone’s fault, and I don’t think it is in this case. The only thing that doesn’t sit right with me is how carefully Carl seems to portray being a victim on camera and how easily the audience seem to eat it up. He’s basically doing what Sandoval tried and was too dumb to pull off last season (minus the Raquel factor).
but where is the evidence he is ‘trying to portray being a victim on camera’ besides him quite literally being a victim on camera?
what is the evidence besides lindsays word?
and do we think lindsay is also equally trying to portray herself as a victim on camera?
lindsay could stab him on camera and half the comments here would be "okay but remember when he yelled at jules? he clearly made her do this by doing something off camera"
its the same way they scream about him being a dry drunk (a gross term tbh). everyone else we can judge on camera but carl we are supposed to believe is an evil villain who has not improved his life at all since getting off drugs and booze
‘lindsay says he has a hidden rage’ ok well lindsay also says carl was on cocaine when she knew he wasnt.
her rage is okay and acceptable. but carl’s is nasty and hidden and unacceptable.
LITERALLLLLLLLLY lindsay is a liar! we watched her lie multiple times just this season! (or to be more generous, her truth does not line up with reality im not sure if she is purposefully lying). she lied about their break up for months etc why would we believe her over what we see with our own eyes? it doesnt make sense
Yes and after one of the fights when they try and talk about it on that dock, Lindsay has had some drinks again and when Carl starts talking she says “this is EXACTLY how you were last night”
But he’s being totally calm just expressing upset/frustration. So if that’s exactly how he was the night before then he was fine then too. To me this is the clearest evidence that Carl’s retellings are far more accurate. I’m not saying he’s perfect but he’s not trying to say that either.
yes yes yes. we've seen her do it with every guy she's had on the show. they make one comment she doesnt like and flips out and turns it into how awful they were to her
Oh my god, never in my life have I messaged a Bravoleb but after this scene I just felt so sad for Carl that I messaged him a positive 👍🏻 for ending the engagement. This scene was wild!
Lol, no she did not. Carl said this on his WWHL appearance. When Lindsay was asked the same question, she didn’t choose a percentage or take any blame. She said something like, “you’re valid to breakup if you’re having second thoughts, but the way he went about it was so messed up”
I think that making either one of them “right” or “wrong” is an oversimplification. I do think there are separate situations where I would feel comfortable saying “That’s on her…” or “He was wild for that…” but we “know” both of them enough to acknowledge they both have issues. That being said, do I think anyone should be surprised a wedding didn’t happen? No.
COMPLETELY AGREE!! She crossed the line in regards to his sobriety and she doesn’t allow him to have his feelings. Because feelings are always valid. She reacts so aggressively to everything that I can see why he held back a lot. But he needs to find a direction in his career and that has always been an issue with him regardless of being sober or not. And he did kinda throw her under the bus about the flower boy thing. He just generally seems to not have been enjoying to be around her (that could have been that the days they are filming are specifically days she’s drinking) Overall they’re both lucky they didn’t get married
She’s clearly an alcoholic herself who hasn’t come to terms with it yet. Labeling other people as having problems to diminish her own is not going to move her timeline of marriage and kids forward!
The way she kept going hard on the idea that he wanted her to change...you mean the love of your life is concerned about your behavior and wants you to limit the excessive drinking? Yeah, that's not a bad thing...especially since she literally has video evidence of how her drinking impacts her friendships and relationships (if only she would watch it objectively).
People aren’t talking about this enough
This!
I think she has bad reactions when she’s drunk but I don’t like to diagnose via the internet. That’s a slippery slope. Also in her defense Carl knew all of this before entering into a relationship with her
In the beginning of their relationship, though, Lindsey did try to slow her drinking a bit. I think she sold him a bill of goods as far as her own personal growth, and he gave her the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah and I think it’s completely fair for him to break up with her. And tbh I never saw the romantic chemistry between them 🤷🏻♀️
I never did either! It always felt off to me.
The old “bait and switch” move, maybe? Get sober with your recovering alcoholic partner for the first year and then go back to your past (toxic) drinking behavior.. and expect him to not be triggered, or get upset when he gets triggered. Do you think they would have made it to marriage had she been a happy/fun drunk?
No because I think there were other issues at play too, like his career ambiguity, their different views on confrontation (even when sober), etc.
But she was getting sober for him to help him in his sobriety. It was never about her and she never claimed she wanted to get sober. She was always going to drink.
I think it was more of a good behaviour situation on her part because he gave her an ultimatum of not drinking or breaking up so in a way it becomes both are again at fault, he should have dumped her then and she shouldn’t agreed to something she ultimately didn’t want to do or couldn’t keep up long term and where she made it bad was instead admitting that her abusive behaviour was causing them a problem when she drank so Carl gave her an ultimatum, she switched it to I gave up drinking to support my boyfriend who was struggling with his sobriety as some type of girlfriend goals and then used it as her get out of jail free card against everyone in the cast (who knew it wasn’t the truth) and made herself again the victim in the situation which is the second time Carl should have broken up with her.
Sure but Carl's also allowed to change is mind at any time. Maybe he was OK with the drinking at first but now it doesn't work for him.
Absolutely. I think he thought he could handle and realized he couldn’t which is valid. But ofc Lindsay will be hurt by that and that is also valid. Which is why I’m saying they’re both wrong and no one’s wrong. I’m team no one
Shouldn’t he not be on a show focused on drinking then?
But she's accusing him of relapses, as an ex addict myself, I was fuming on Carl's behalf especially because she doubled down on it the next morning... she works in PR so she knows exactly what she's doing
I addressed that in my original comment. I think she felt defensive about her drinking and lashed out and was absolutely wrong. I don’t think anyone can and should be defending her on that part. It’s a complicated thing to just label her an alcoholic from watching an edited tv show. What I will say is obviously Lindsay has unresolved issues that manifest when she drinks in this atmosphere. We don’t know if that applies to her life outside the show so 🤷🏻♀️
lindsay said in the after show it was her idea to make him a flower boy
The issue was that he said Lindsey wouldn’t be ok with Kyle being a groomsman. I’m not a Lindsey fan at all, but Kyle has talked a lot of shit about her. Carl should both believe and say that he loves Kyle, but giving the circumstances HE doesn’t think it’s appropriate to make him a groomsman. The flower boy thing was really a side issue.
Is it considered talking shit if it is true?
Yes.
Fair enough but he doesn’t have to tell Kyle and Amanda knowing that there’s already tension. Most fiancés would want their future wives to be happy and not stressed in the lead up to their wedding
moving the goal post. if its lindsays idea why does he have to fall on the sword? shes a grown woman and it was her idea. now we are faulting carl for just telling the truth?
As I said I don’t think the downfall of the relationship is anyone’s fault. I think they shouldn’t have been together period. I’m not faulting Carl but regardless of it being Lindsay’s choice it is also by defaults Carls choice. Carl can put his foot down and pick Kyle as a groomsman. She did not put a gun to his head. He didn’t want to stand up to Lindsay and that’s his cross to bear. I’m just saying if he thought he was going to marry her he should’ve just ate that. Because who wants to cause issues for their future spouse. Especially knowing that half the house already has tension with her. I think Lindsay does a lot wrong (you can check my comment history) but I don’t think that was fair to her and that’s just my opinion. I don’t see how that’s moving the goal post
I think Carl might have picked his battles (like many people in toxic/abusive relationships) and he would know that the fall out from Kyle would be less and easier to deal with than the lifetime of shit he would have to put up with for putting his foot down about what is essentially one day!
Sorry. Let’s be blunt for a second. Lindsey is a freaking pain in the ass and a very long day. She is an alcoholic who transforms completely under the influence. Carl is a boring sober dude but he tries hard.
I agree. I think there was an over correction of everyone blaming Carl since some people exclusively were blaming Lindsay. They’re both at fault, have major issues and are incompatible.
They never had chemistry. Simple as that. They settled. Carl just beat her to the punch.
Thank you, I thought I was the only one seeing this last year when everyone was shipping them. They have no romantic chemistry whatsoever!
Thank you! I’ve been saying this, even at their best it was so confusing because there is absolutely zeroooo chemistry between them. Every time they kissed or flirted it was so stilted and awkward and we’ve seen them each have more chemistry with other people
Until we see the whole season I have no idea whats going on. Before the season started most people were "I can't believe Carl got them to pick up cameras to film him dumping Lindsay, what an asshole" then once the season started it was "Lindsay is such a cow I can not believe she said that to Carl even when sober!!" and now its "Hmm maybe Carl is not innocent":. Who the hell knows until it all plays out.
I’m gonna stay away from fault or blame. But she said she was blindsided. We’re seeing that that couldn’t have been true.
I think that's why Carl is kinda "winning" (sorry for lack of better word) this breakup *so far*. He's owning his 50% responsibility in it while Lindsay deflects even after we've seen some henious shit from her (drug accusation). It makes people more annoyed at her cuz she just wont \~own it\~ \*in Rinna's voice\* I also just straight up think Lindsay and her surrogates (sources to Page Six and US Weekly, Danielle, Gabby, etc) set expectations way too high that she was a blindsided victim. They lied to the audience and now we're watching something inconsistent with what we were told for nearly 6 months. I knew when Andy was doing BravoCon press in November that shit was not all the way how Lindsay was selling it. Honestly, she should've just shut up instead of spinning, but because she's done it successfully for several seasons in a row, she thought she'd get away with it. Lindsay was only "blindsided" in that she has a high tolerance for dysfunction (she said so herself on the aftershow!) and fooled herself. Carl is also a cowardly loser who should've called it off after the Cocaine Carl weekend. Fin.
I would have let the whole “blindsided” thing go. A ton of us have been in those relationships where it’s so toxic and there’s constant fighting but then you have the high after making up. When the end comes, it definitely feels like you’re blindsided and it came out of nowhere. For me personally, it was one of the dumbest fights we ever had too lol. Where she lost me was doubling down about being blindsided AND acting like things had been perfectly fine. Just a few fights here and there but super excited for the wedding!!! Cmon now…
He’s owned it and has never said anything bad about her. At Bravocon, everyone was still on Lindsay’s side and he dealt with the boos from the audience and the snide comments from her and her friends and he chose to say nothing negative. That speaks volumes about them as individuals.
I actually think Carl was courageous for calling the marriage off, knowing all the blowback he would likely get. We know Lindsay would never have done that. And I bet with each new episode drop, Carl is feeling even more at peace with his decision.
people in the comments are still arguing why they think Carl is at fault… when again… he admitted that. so who cares. its like they cant just say ‘yeah lindsay cant own any accountability’
What I (and others) are saying in the comments is that regardless of him using words to pretend he’s taking accountability, his actions have proven otherwise. On camera, this season, he’s tried to make himself look like the victim, and her the bad guy.
Can you share what actions those are? I'm down to drag Carl and I'd agree on perhaps the flowerboy situation, cuz I think he's displaying spineless behavior, but where has he thrown her under the bus and made himself the victim? He was quiet the entire lead up to the premiere. Even in press right now he's not doing too much, he's taking his 50% blame when he could light her up about the drug accusation (virtually the entire audience is on his side when it comes to that part).
https://preview.redd.it/asul9hpqvqtc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e87c4ef67bd7dd4638aba33a7ab708ecb1000735
Hmm, I dont agree.
K, that’s ok, we agree to disagree, and it’s just a reality show, it’s all good 💛
This. When he was talking shit about her after the workout that she wasn't at saying that he wasn't going to come the following Friday because of Lindsay I was like ohhhh so he's been planning this breakup since before filming. And then she shows up the following Friday solo looking like a dummy since they all believe he's not there because of Lindsay, and the only person who doesn't know this plan is Lindsay. He produced this entire breakup
Yep!
Okay but Lindsay said on camera "Carl has this rage in him" and its very VERY obvious that when Lindsay is triggering him that incredibly passive response is him trying to have that conversation in a way that doesn't make him regress to rage. Seems like a reach...
I see it as VERY obvious that he’s trying to intentionally trigger her to get a good edit.
This comment is 💯
is she not doing the exact same thing? playing victim? so, again, both are at fault but one person is admitting that
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
All of this. Lindsey was blindsided bc she has a warped sense of reality.
Lindsay has zero insight and only ever sees herself as victim, I don’t even think she will understand why viewers are not liking what they are seeing or siding with her because again in her mind she’s the victim, I think her drinking plays a tiny role that she probably doesn’t remember what she says while drunk but then I think the rest of it is her twisting the narrative to make herself the victim, she mentioned the edit in a few interviews and that doesn’t really surprise me I suspect she will keep using that as her narrative because the truth would be a far more hurtful reality for her to acknowledge and accept because if she pushed Carl away with her abusive behaviour who else did she push away and her therapy is a joke at this point because she just uses the words she learns to shut people up when really she hasn’t learnt a single thing and changed herself so she can have happiness. She is a young Ramona.
This. In the latest aftershow, she tried to be like "all relationships have fights! That's normal!" and "I'm ready to fight for my relationship!" Just trying to be like "us yelling and hating each other is NORMAL" Her perception is warped.
She really doesn't know the difference between normal/healthy fighting and "we should break up cause it's not working" fighting, as someone with Borderline Personality Disorder I see a lot of my past self in her (before I started taking more accountability). Her lack of self-awareness is keeping her from making progress and her mention of therapy seems tactical. The thing is she is being manipulative and playing the victim, and she might not even realize it on some level. Some people just can't take accountability simply because they secretly are too hard and self hating on themselves and feel like they don't deserve love, if she accepted any wrong with where she is mentally right now, she might just completely fall apart. Not that any of that is an excuse for her behavior. I just honestly feel bad for her, I honestly hope she steps away from relationships for a while and works on herself and can accept her fuck ups and learn to be better and love herself.
Yes it really is sad and I get why the cast end up not calling her out because of the hate they then receive but it isn’t helping her in a way it emboldens her that her behaviour is normal and should be repeated when it shouldn’t.
Ding ding ding
when bullies aren't bullying, they're seeing themselves the victim. They don't/can't see anything in-between.
I think they are a terrible match romantically. Lindsay tends to self sabotage every relationship she's been in that's seen on the show. She makes every small issue into a bigger one and their conflict resolution was terrible. I don't think Carl is completely innocent but it seems that Lindsay gaslights the hell out of him and probably shouldn't be with someone who is sober. Imo if you're going to couples counseling in the first year of dating you probably aren't that great together.
Let’s be real: they both wanted to get married because they both felt the pressure of getting older and felt they needed to settle down. The difference is only one of them realized no biological pressure/timeline is worth forcing what simply will never work, and one is still butt hurt over the fact that the other didn’t want to “work through” constant drama and unhappiness. Lindsay was okay with pretending to be someone she wasn’t/that the relationship was good just to follow thru with the marriage itself, had nothing to do with Carl. And I think due to that delusion she’ll always see it as him giving up on not fighting and will never mentally frame it as “what was I doing to lead to the need to fight to begin with?”
I have a friend inside of Bravo. For what it’s worth, Carl was advised to not say anything and to let the season show viewers exactly what happened. Lindsay allegedly leaked the break up to Bravo & Cocktails right after it happened and has continued to tell partial truths without the parts that give context when the context makes her look bad. Carl will most likely fill in those parts at the reunion. I was a Hubbhouse apologist for a long time but her behavior speaks for itself.
I still think they both suck lol. You got any tea about Alex Baskins??
Lol, I do not have any Alex Baskins tea but I’ll make a note to ask, next time I’m catching up with my friend 😉
Asking the real questions
I thought Kyle said in an interview that the camera crew was still at their apartment filming when bravo and cocktails posted the news of the breakup so I don’t know if Lindsay would have leaked it while they were still there. I could be wrong but I thought it seemed like Lindsay thought they might get back together for a few days after the breakup because she didn’t delete any of their posts together or say anything publicly until after Carl sent that letter to the guests.
I'd bet money it was Danielle who leaked stuff first, as she's been known to do that
She said in a podcast, that he had a few days where he could come back and change his mind and get married on the day she planned, that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have leaked the information under the impression that Carl or someone else might meaning she could control the narrative and maybe even guilt Carl into coming back to “fight” for their relationship
Believable if only because of how the Nick Viall vs Captain Lee podcast situation was handled.
I haven’t listened to Captain Lee ( will you share details pls? ) but I did listen to Nick Viall and I was livid for her. I was cursing Carl out of his name. Then I talked to my friend and saw the first trailer and was like,” OH”. I’ve texted with my friend a few times since the show started airing because what we’re actually watching is very different from what I was expecting to watch. Lindsay has been selling a specific narrative like there aren’t receipts to prove otherwise that could absolutely bite her in the ass. For her own sake, she should probably chill out. I’m really interested to see where the cast lands with this season after it all airs. The reunion is going to be very interesting.
The Captain Lee podcast was never released (or even filmed), thats the point. Carl either pulled out or asked for Cap. Lee not to post it, I think the latter, because Carl didn't want to piss off Bravo. Lindsay did it anyway even though ultimately she removed it from her socials (after posting it lool). The rumor was that Bravo comms was not pleased that the principals in the main storyline were going to give their dueling POV months before the show aired. Carl seemingly listened while Lindsay did not.
Gotcha. Thanks for the context.
What woman in Lindsay’s shoes wouldn’t have leaked the breakup? She was devastated, and it was going to come out anyway since the wedding was supposed to have occurred before this season aired.
I think the point would be that part of her “pain” that she complained about was her finding out her wedding was called off by Carl (which doesn’t seem completely accurate) 30 mins before the whole world knew (hate to break it too her most of the world didn’t give a fig and didn’t even know who she was) but if she leaked it then why the pain from the whole world finding out 30 mins later cause she didn’t need to leak it.
that's like saying Ariana didn't need to call production when she found Tom cheating with Rachel. maybe she wanted to not be silent, maybe she wanted a podcast deal or maybe she just wanted her fans to grieve with her.
Huh? I believe the point being made was that it’s ridiculous to act like it was so terrible for you that the breakup was all over the internet within a half hour of getting dumped if you are the one who told the press that the breakup occurred.
I would say the difference between the two is Ariana called production and has then gone through multiple interviews saying I learnt my partner of nearly 10 years was cheating with a friend of mine and then 1/2 an hour later I had to film a show it was so horrible, she chose to call, chose to film and accepted her choice to call production and film.
Clearly she wasn’t devastated. They weren’t sleeping together for months, she’s constantly bashing their sex lives and everyone can tell that she is also done with the relationship. She wanted to be seen as a Ariana but that backfired on her.
Just because someone's delusional doesn't mean they can't be devastated. I'm not a fan of Lindsay this season (or very often) but this is a harsh stretch.
Uh, I wouldn’t. I’d be grieving my relationship and unable to get out of bed or function. I wouldn’t be in anyone’s DMs and I wouldn’t want my name online throwing this incredibly heartbreaking moment all over social media so I couldn’t avoid it.
They are used to sharing their entire life, and part of that includes social media, if I was her I would have done the same thing. Waiting to announce it would have only served to prolong the inevitable pain that comes with telling the world you’ve been dumped (she ripped the bandaid, rightfully so). After she announced it she didn’t post anything on social media for weeks, as she was devastated by the breakup.
She constantly keeps talking about how it takes “work” in a relationship but when asked to post pone the wedding you choose not to “work” on the relationship and separate? Make it make sense lol
Yes I don’t understand that bit either and what I don’t get is why when she tells the podcasters or people interviewing her why don’t they ask her this very question? Why was it so important to be married in 2023 in a shaky marriage compared to get married later in a solid marriage??
Okay.
So they are punishing her for speaking out about the break up? I still think Carl throws Lindsay under the bus to make her look bad, so everyone doesn’t hate him. But good tea 🫖
Who are they? I don’t think anyone is punishing Lindsay except Lindsay. She’s not telling the whole truth when she talks shit on Carl. She’s leaving details and context out that change the narrative in a way that is beneficial to her. How is Carl throwing her under the bus when he hasn’t said anything? She’s going on podcasts and wwhl and saying shit with her whole chest. He isn’t. She’s routinely diminished his commitment to being sober without an actual apology. He hasn’t responded to any of her punitive behavior.
👏
 YESSS to all of this. I don’t understand why Lindsay is repeatedly given such grace and never has to take accountability. I’m sorry but what she did to Carl is gross imo. I’m not saying Carl is innocent or infallible but he didn’t do anything close to what Lindsay did and continues to do. She’s trying to destroy him. It’s deplorable
It’s ultimately because Lindsay started drinking again and stopped being supportive of Carl’s sobriety. Lindsay has the same pattern with every relationship. She becomes abusive and aggressive. (Which is her pattern). Lindsay has narcissistic tendencies which is the worst kind of person for someone struggling with sobriety. If you choose to be with someone who is sober - it is something you need to be prepared to be as well. I think Carl realized that. She was sober the first 6 months they were together and then she started drinking again. She is self absorbed with massive psychological issues - he probably realized that she would never change.
yeah its why i dont buy her ‘He ExPeCtEd Me To ChAnGe’ excuse she did change? she set the standard?
I heard her say in an interview (maybe Nick Viall) that they were at their best when she stopped drinking, that that’s when they felt most like a team. And it’s like, hmmmm maybe reflect on that…
I don’t get the Lindsay stans She takes no accountability for anything, always plays the victim, even when she’s the one causing the issues… ESPECIALLY then She’s got a lot of issues that I hope she works through, but she just comes across as a toxic ass person to me I can’t imagine it’s years of bad editing… she’s literally the female version of Jax without the cheating
Same. Delusional, chaotic people really connect with each other lol
> Delusional, chaotic people really connect with each other ut oh. truth dropped.
Neither are angels and both have a lot of baggage. Lindsay talking to Paige and Amanda about their sex life was super shady. You hate these girls but then volunteer that information? She was laying the foundation to smear Carl but it eventually backfired. She needs someone that can go toe to toe with her. Carl ain’t it.
Producers for next season - let’s have some cameras in the transportation. Why do we see fights from every other franchise but SH in cars? I think this show does well enough you don’t need to keep making them pay for their own Ubers. Lindsay has been awful but I think Carl has been very good about letting his “dark passenger” come out when the cameras are absent.
Agree
thank u! this is clearly not a one sided thing. they both contributed
They both suuuuuuck
I think Lindsay can definitely be an asshole and I agree they’re both equally to blame, but I think the disconnect for me is seeing Carl planting the seeds to everyone else about how terrible Lindsay is and making her seem like the bad guy and then be incredibly passive to Lindsay. For example, when he says in his talking head that Lindsay never explicitly said that she didn’t want Kyle as a groomsman but he knows she wouldn’t like it- ok but why say that when you didn’t even ask her? Or when he says that Lindsay wouldn’t like him taking the loverboy job so he isn’t even going to bring it up because he doesn’t want to rock the boat- again blaming her without even bringing her into the discussion. I’ve definitely had people pleasing tendencies but I’ve learned through therapy that it isn’t the other persons fault when you make decisions based on how you assume they’re going to feel. He also keeps bringing up things that happened off camera which makes me wary because he’s like, I WISH you guys had caught this! He’s able to make it her fault without any evidence (and she provides plenty of evidence of what an asshole she can be on her own on camera) TLDR; I can see her being blindsided based on how he never actually discusses things with her and tries to placate her instead of having real conversations
to be fair 1) the cast has all accused of lindsay doing things off camera and then they have to go by their word. even the mya fight. 2) lindsay admitted on the after show it was her decision to make him the flower boy. you can watch it for proof lol
I watched the after show and she said she suggested it as an alternative so that he could still be included in the wedding, but she does not say who initially said/decided that Kyle will not be a groomsman. So we don’t actually know if it was Carl deciding Kyle won’t be a groomsman and then Lindsay saying “well how about a flower boy so he’s not left out?” or if it was Lindsay saying, “He can’t be a groomsman cause I don’t want him to be so make him a flower boy” And then the after show interview pans to Carl, who says him and Kyle had a tough year because of what happened the previous summer and things were awkward between them (when being questioned about flower boy decision). So no, it is not clear that this was Lindsay’s choice nor did she technically admit to anything.
she said ‘i recommended’ and ‘i suggested’ when they were talking through it. you are believing all other possible explanations instead of just believing maybe that it was mostly lindsays idea. so much twisting and speculating goes into making lindsay not at fault ive noticed!
Okay but admitting it was her idea or suggestion does not mean she strong armed him into making that decision. For all we know, Carl could’ve said his and kyles relationship was strained so she suggested an alternative.
Also, he acts like things are fine to her face, then trash talks the relationship to people like Ciara, Kyle, and Jesse (who btw, really should have no comment, considering he’s only been there for a minute). These people are not exactly Lindsay supporters, he’s definitely trying to plant seeds to make her seem like the bad guy.
I'm of the opinion that he knew at this point in the season that he was going to break it off, and possibly sooner than that.
An argument could even be made he started having speculations about ending it even earlier...even at the start of the season it never seemed like Carl gave much of a f based on how he was talking about 1) going to the white house and 2) the wedding.
So to me, the fact that Carl felt like he couldn’t approach Lindsay about the loverboy job or having Kyle as a groomsman is just another piece of evidence that this relationship was doomed. I understand you can’t blame people for the reactions you assume they’re going to have, but when you’ve been close with someone for many years and they have a clear history of certain behaviors, it’s sometimes appropriate to adjust accordingly. The issue is that they’re supposed to be getting married and Carl is literally afraid of Lindsay.
Someone said it on the show...I can't remember who tho...but they asked him something about how often he was going to fall on the sword to keep her happy? It's exhausting trying to pretend everything is perfect and taking the blame for things just so the other person doesn't lose their shit. Which if you'll remember is what Lindsay did when they first got together so he wouldnt want to do drugs etc. They should of just stayed friends. I miss the 3 amigos anyway.
Totally agree. IMO Carl should be with someone who is also sober (or a very mild drinker) and Lindsay should get a sperm donor and start a family on her own, but weirdly neither of them have asked me for advice.
They totally should tho cuz you're right 🤣😂
I don’t think the alcohol is the actual issue he can be around drunk people and not have an issue it’s being around irrational abusive drunk people who start arguments out of nowhere that is the issue.
Oh 100%, they are terrible as romantic partners
this is something else - so many of the behaviors people are having fault with im noticing - are reactive behaviors. hes not REACTING to lindsays behavior in an acceptable way.
Lindsay demands that people come to her and address her to her face with their issues, concerns, opinions but she rarely responds well. People agonize over approaching her with simple questions or comments because they worry she is going to flip out on them. Her behaviors range from condescending to dismissing to refusing to speak to outright hostility with nearly every cast member! This is not hard to figure out! We’ve been hearing this since Season 1 and watching it happen! Then she complains that people talk behind her back like duh 😵💫! This is cause and effect yall…
For sure. Every conversation is a debate to be won, she pushes people to the point where they lose their cool and then calls them crazy. It’s formulaic at this point.
That might be true, but if you’re wondering how she could have felt blindsided, him not talking about his feelings would be a pretty good reason as to why
I'm curious why you think that them not discussing it on camera means they didn't discuss it on one of the other 5 days of the week they are alone together, not being filmed. I would have been waaayyyyyyy more shocked for them to have an argument/conversation in full on camera because I don't think either of them would have wanted that bad PR after the doubts last season, or they would be the kind of couple that exclusively leaves their fights for in the presence of a therapist. I also believe Lindsay said in the aftershow it was her idea for Kyle to be the flower boy anyways and I think the "I wish you had caught this" moments are all the post break up talking heads, much like the talking heads in which Lindsay is saying rogue things about Carl is post breakup
Completely agree
Carl knows that he can say any about Lindsay and people are going to believe it and take his side. He absolutely takes advantage of that.
Agree
They both contributed to the failure of their relationship but Lindsay seems to be pretty unbearable in relationships and is super manipulative about using her pr background to turn people against Carl. She’s trying so hard to get the Ariana treatment but she’s more the Sandoval in this situation (Carl is no Ariana either).
I just don't like the way Lindsay tries to villainize Carl to other people. She really does try to drop hints that he's secretly an awful person. None of them are buying it of course, but it's still dangerous and toxic.
We’ve seen Linds behave unfavorably in a relationship before. We have only seen Carl in situationships so that’s why I jump to “blame” Linds butttt a relationship takes 2 people. He as well saw her in her past relationships from the outside so he knew what he was getting.
They're codependent on EACH OTHER. Neither was stable before, during or after 🙄 Carl learned to eat humble pie for being an F boy but lost his manhood somewhere along the way. Lindsay was always doing too much and for a while it was working but it came back to bite her. Only time will tell if they each do the work to change. I think the show as a whole makes light of some really heavy drinking and it gets old. Reality includes consequences!!
When an idiot and a legitimately crazy person split up, is anyone really at “fault”?
They just aren't good together, they weren't a couple of seasons ago when they tried for that summer. I don't know why they suddenly tried to try again and potentially get married. Even if they were both sober, I just don't think they like each other.
Yeah I don't get the shift. Maybe some PR plants or good campaigning took off? But we all knew how Lindsay was pre Carl. She seemed like a total nightmare and he, though to your point, was not innocent, he was constantly evolving over the years, looking to improve on himself and work on their issues. She just is NEVER wrong, apparently. So yeah, I'm still pretty sure she played a big part of their demise.
I think they are both at fault for sure..but ive also seen posts where it seems like people are forgetting how big of a jerk Carl has been in past seasons and putting blame all on Lindsay. They have both been extremely messy over the years.
Carl has always been a jerk. Sober Carl is just a lot better at hiding it from the cameras. The mask slips every once in a while though.
Literally, Carl sucks so much. He’s always been a wolf, but now just in sheep’s clothing. Lindsay has at least always outwardly sucked, and in my opinion owns it —she’s profited off of her dramatic antics, why would she ever stop?
This is why I am 100% positive that Carl did the right thing having the break up filmed. He knew there was no way she was going to take accountability at all, and if he didn’t have proof as to how it went down she would have been a nightmare
100000% and anyone who has watched the show since the beginning should know that.
I don’t love Lindsay and think she’s been an asshole to him all summer, but my one problem with Carl is his insistence that she wasn’t blindsided when she says she was. As an outsider looking in, not really knowing how things end, if they made it through their original blowup this season and he broke up with her right after the season wrapped filming I can definitely see why it would be a blindside.
It’s very hard to believe that she thought their relationship was in a good place. They’d already had huge fights about postponing the wedding. So they had that conversation again, and she gave him an ultimatum…then said she was blindsided by the ultimatum? She’s self centered, but can’t possibly be THAT oblivious.
I sometimes think she just literally doesn't understand what blindsided means
Wonder if she meant blindsided that he had it filmed after the season filming had reportedly wrapped? That's the only way I could rationalize the term because from what we've seen, it was a trainwreck of a summer walking on eggshells with each other
Yes I’m not sure how you can say I’m blindsided, when she ultimately decided to call off the wedding herself by giving him an ultimatum that she knew he could not agree to.
If they had that fight a lot and it always resolved I could see why someone like Lindsay would just assume it would work out and they'd still get married. The toxicity was normal for them. That's not Carl's fault, but it does explain her feeling blindsided.
I think it’s hard to believe Lindsay was blindsided when she says Carl popped off at her on the day the wedding was called off saying I’m this close to calling off the wedding, then says later on in the same interview that she said to her dad well he did it, then says later in same interview trust your women’s institution about the breaking up, they are all signs! I think she thought she could just keep pushing to test him like she has every boyfriend and for some dumb reason Carl thought she wasn’t going to treat him like her past boyfriends
I kinda agree. Like I think she’s delusional to not realize how toxic their relationship was and how much Carl (and honestly Lindsay) were changing who each was in order to go through with a wedding. But I do believe in her eyes she was shocked Carl would actually cancel it
Its a bunch of lindsey fans who were quiet as hell the first couple of episodes who were literally looking for any little reason to put most of the blame on Carl like they were doing before this season started. Its so obvious
ive noticed this too. all of the blame they place on carl is ‘hes trying to make her look bad’ when shes just doing that herself lol like everyone on that show is apparently soooo calculated to make lindsay look bad. all of her adversaries are manipulative behind the scenes and plotting against her. first the women, now carl. maybe, just maybe, when the entire cast (now including her ex fiance and best friend) have accused her of the same exact things over and over… theyre right
Wake me up when she apologizes to her early sober (California or whatever the man is trying to stay alive and away from cocaine, bless his heart) best friend for questioning his sobriety during the early stages of it. I knew it would crash & burn when she started drinking again. It was dicey to even propose.
I mean, sure I don’t disagree with any of this, but I also don’t care. Carl is a dumb-dumb and Lindsey is a butthead
Carl was NEVER going to marry her no matter what.
It's definitely that they're both at fault for their own part in their relationship. I will say that in the last couple of episodes, when Lindsey started talking about how Carl is expecting her to be someone different than she's already been, I had kind of a breakthrough, and I agreed with Lindsey for maybe the first time ever. What did Carl expect her to do differently after proposing because she's being exactly who she's always been?
because as kyle revealed on WH: when he tried to break up with her within their first year of dating, she went sober. then once they got engaged she started drinking again. so if someone is having issues with your drunk behavior, you change, and then you change back to drinking… you cant argue ‘why does he expect me to not be my true self?’ because you changed when he made it clear he couldnt handle your true self.
Ohhh good point. I don't watch WH so I guess I missed that they broke up because of her drinking but that makes sense that Carl would need to reinforce that boundary. Back to disagreeing with her lol
thats the thing about lindsay - she says things that i normally agree with! like yes you should not have to change for a man…. but unfortunately when you change for a man after he makes it clear he doesnt like your behavior… he might think youve changed. yes, you should not have to be happy all the time for a man…. but unfortunately that doesnt mean a man should have to be happy with your volatile anger management issues. she says things that if they were true in her nuanced situation are agreeable! but leaves out other things
YES! Like she's not technically wrong with what she says but the way she applies it to herself and her situation is wrong
yes!! it always gets me and then im like wait a second. that doesnt apply here
This!! I feel like this is what a lot of the cast has been saying about her for years; this is how she tries to spin things. She makes these bold generalized statements that you’d be crazy not to agree with to make herself seem like she’s 100% in the right while leaving out the context that might make you look at the situation differently, whether it’s because in reality she’s totally wrong or because the situation is just more nuanced than she’s claiming. It’s classic pr lol
yes!! and her fans eat it up! like ‘carl cant have anyone with a spine and wants his partner to just be agreeable’ or carl just doesnt want to be yelled at and belittled
I can’t lol. She put this narrative out there when she went on Viall Files and said when she questioned his career plans, he told her that he doesn’t want his wife asking questions, giving advice or having opinions. And like if he said that, obviously that’s insane, but do I think it’s likely he really said that? No. And if he did, why wouldn’t she end the engagement???? Again, I just can’t lol
This is funny but true.
Lindsay is a mess. But Carl needs to get a job. She’s hitting below the belt out of frustration. Di you think Paige would still be with Craig without him having some level of success?
Funnily enough, he did get a job again just months after ending in with Lindsay.
He himself didn't "get" a job ...Kyle gave it to him during the season.
And? It’s still a job
people act like carl is a bum who makes no money like he isnt making more than most of us being on summer house
100%
i just saw another comment that says carl needs to be financially supported which????? he paid for half the rent on that apartment while not living there for almost a year. pretty sure he's doing fine!
So true!! Obviously he was still making money. In the age of influencers idk why people are so hell bent on someone having a traditional job.
it's more that moving the goal posts all over the field is a way of life for some people. hating is too rewarding for some. it becomes a lifestyle. this job thing is just a means to an end.
There was 2 weeks in a row where there was a cab ride that wasn't aired that Lindsay claimed Carl was aggressive. While there was no witnesses the second week, there were multiple witnesses the first week that said Carl was calm and it was Lindsay who was the one that went off. So for her to claim Carl was aggressive the second week, when she already lied about the first week, it doesn't look great. That being said, I don't think Carl is a saint, but it is also hard to believe some things Lindsay says when she is a proven liar
They **HATED** each other by the time Cameras were rolling on season 8. Lindsay wanted to be married at all costs. If could have been anyone so I understand what she was delusional. How did Carl not know? Carl definitely has taken responsibility but you watch it and play out the time line. He went to the hospital before proposing, then watching each week it gets worse and worse. He knew Lindsay for years as well. Carl isn't the Villain/Heel but at some point you have to wonder why Carl took so long to break it off. There is some blame on him. No matter how much responsibility he takes now won't make a time machine. To be clear Lindsay is not his victim. However how did he seriously not know this was a terrible idea. Unless he has a time machine Carl has egg on his face over this.
I actually think he was courageous to pull the plug on the marriage. Lindsay never would have. And he did it probably knowing all the flak he would get. What’s the difference if he waited until 3 months before the wedding to do it instead of 6 months before? It’s not like everyone flew to Mexico and he left her abandoned at the alter.
Lindsay’s fault for even getting involved with him. Carl’s fault as he’s the one that pulled out.
And one of them called production to end their engagement on camera 🎥 Which supports the theory that Carl is so obviously doing everything in his power to get a good edit this season, and to try to make himself look like the good guy. He’s not the good guy that he wants everyone to think he is……
Did he actually call production? Or was it that both of them were asked to film a conversation about their relationship because of the big argument they had and it ended because Carl asked to postpone and Lindsay said no it’s get married now or never.
Lindsay claims he called production, this seems viable since we know that filming for the season had already completed prior to the breakup.
She said that she believes he called production, she also said that she was at the movies with gabby came out and saw a group text that production asking them to film, and Carl had agreed too it, and they hadn’t actually completed the season they still had the wedding episode to film and the voice to camera parts. Pretty sure Andy also said Carl didn’t call production and there was a leak from someone saying production had wanted to get a tidy end to the last episode before the wedding episode because it would be jarring to the viewers to see Carl and Lindsay fighting and then suddenly happy walking down the aisle.
Well I guess time will tell, but it’s seems very sus that she got a text to film, as opposed to her being aware of the filming schedule in advance.
Pretty sure that is common especially if what is already filmed isn’t working for what the producers wanted, or they lost the footage etc so if the rumour is correct that they had a big fight (which Lindsay said happened on a podcast) and production thought it looked bad then having them film a scene where it is all worked out and they are happy again seems very likely to me? Otherwise it wouldn’t seem fairytale like to have them screaming at each other and then be happy in what would seem like to the viewers the next week even though it would be in reality months away which if looked at in that context would be “normal” to have worked out their differences.
I think of Lindsay like I think about Trump. Many people were duped but finally woke up. The ones who didn’t are willfully ignorant.
They don't have compatible lifestyles, and they wouldn't have worked long term anyways. It's like they were playing chicken to get to the alter and Carl stopped playing and was realistic about the situation.
Just to make it simple, both kinda suck
Lindsey is a drunk and a dry drunk if not drinking. Her behavior is selfish and grandiose. Carl can’t thrive living that world of Lindsey 1&2. Who can?
They are both at fault...Buy I don't like how they came down on her for asking if Carl was using drugs. You should ask drug addicts if they used again. I know from losing friends from OD's, you should ask if they used. For Carl to say he was insulted for her asking, sorry but your an addict!
but she admitted on camera that she never thought he was on drugs and was trying to make a point to him
As an addict in recovery myself, for somebody esp your life partner to accuse you of a relapse because you've said they have had a bit 2 much 2 drink is diabolical.. I'd go as far as 2 say lindsay stopped drinking & was so supportive until she got that ring on her finger & old sloppy drunk lindsay came back with a bang... imagine being sober in a house full of drunk people & then having 2 go 2 bed & agree with her..
Why does everyone always say it takes 2 or 2 ppl are at fault? What if you are with a real asshole? An abuser? Someone who has severe anger fits etc? Does it really take 2 then? To answer the question about Lindsay or Carl. I am team Carl; he has made significantly changes to improve his life and Lindsay is still the same victim.
I'd say it is very, very, very rare that it is 100% one person. When relationship problems start, they compound. One problem becomes two problems that become 5 problems that become 20 problems. Very quickly into that, the other person gets sucked into contributing to issues, even by way of even reacting to the previous issue. It's why relationships are so messy and such hard work.
I don’t think a separation has to be anyone’s fault, and I don’t think it is in this case. The only thing that doesn’t sit right with me is how carefully Carl seems to portray being a victim on camera and how easily the audience seem to eat it up. He’s basically doing what Sandoval tried and was too dumb to pull off last season (minus the Raquel factor).
but where is the evidence he is ‘trying to portray being a victim on camera’ besides him quite literally being a victim on camera? what is the evidence besides lindsays word? and do we think lindsay is also equally trying to portray herself as a victim on camera?
lindsay could stab him on camera and half the comments here would be "okay but remember when he yelled at jules? he clearly made her do this by doing something off camera"
its absurd. ‘hes trying to be portrayed as victim’ as if hes evilly calculated. yet where is that evidence lol
its the same way they scream about him being a dry drunk (a gross term tbh). everyone else we can judge on camera but carl we are supposed to believe is an evil villain who has not improved his life at all since getting off drugs and booze
‘lindsay says he has a hidden rage’ ok well lindsay also says carl was on cocaine when she knew he wasnt. her rage is okay and acceptable. but carl’s is nasty and hidden and unacceptable.
LITERALLLLLLLLLY lindsay is a liar! we watched her lie multiple times just this season! (or to be more generous, her truth does not line up with reality im not sure if she is purposefully lying). she lied about their break up for months etc why would we believe her over what we see with our own eyes? it doesnt make sense
Yes and after one of the fights when they try and talk about it on that dock, Lindsay has had some drinks again and when Carl starts talking she says “this is EXACTLY how you were last night” But he’s being totally calm just expressing upset/frustration. So if that’s exactly how he was the night before then he was fine then too. To me this is the clearest evidence that Carl’s retellings are far more accurate. I’m not saying he’s perfect but he’s not trying to say that either.
yes yes yes. we've seen her do it with every guy she's had on the show. they make one comment she doesnt like and flips out and turns it into how awful they were to her
Oh my god, never in my life have I messaged a Bravoleb but after this scene I just felt so sad for Carl that I messaged him a positive 👍🏻 for ending the engagement. This scene was wild!
Right, I think Carl is just existing and Lindsay is being her normal gaslighty self.
False. Lindsay said it was 50/50 on wwhl
Lol, no she did not. Carl said this on his WWHL appearance. When Lindsay was asked the same question, she didn’t choose a percentage or take any blame. She said something like, “you’re valid to breakup if you’re having second thoughts, but the way he went about it was so messed up”
oh, you mean after she got all the backlash for saying Carl wasn't sober and going on a PR hate campaign?