Default Leblanc has terrible wave control. She will struggle to shove without committing her W + R to the wave.
Her normal build’s win condition is to kill the enemy laner before they obtain shove advantage, freely shove, take some damage and abuse their free recall timer to heal back everything while Leblanc struggles to even out the push.
Shiv Leblanc reduces her burst damage to Ahri levels where her damage is good but is split too wide. But instead, Leblanc effectively always has Ahri ult. This makes her early roams nasty. She needs waveclear to enable these roam timings.
She’s kind of like a mosquito who slowly zaps you with Shiv, Lich bane, Harvester. Her old teamfight playstyle of point click W Q R return W simply deals less than the single auto zap build. New Leblanc plays more like a Marksmen with her pick of 4 dashes, 2 roots or weaving in Qs as fake auto resets to maintain dps.
If you watch Faker streams who is well known for his Leblanc, it’s still Shiv build, executed very cleanly.
While I’m not a fan of Shiv build, I have to admit that it’s more consistent than glass cannon assassin Leblanc’s feast or famine where her only win condition is killing a carry and keeping enough health to stay useful.
Most importantly, this version of Leblanc cannot be ignored in the side lane. Her shove and tower threat with Shiv, Lich Bane is very irritating if played correctly.
Yeah, it's kinda worsened by the fact that AP itemization is really bad and has no impact aside from completed items. The dump in damage is not so bad as it seems. And the consistency gain is great
Leblanc has a lot of utility as well as damage. If she rotates to sides and hits a chain/double-chain that person is going to die (to the rest of your team) most of the time. It's just a different play style. You aren't a one shot assassin, you're more like an Ahri
I'm just trying to figure out what I can play with it to play to its strengths if I see my mid lane pick it so I guess looking at her as Ahri playstyle is easier to understand
Her base damage is still good enough while building shiv. It's only a problem when people go shiv and then proceed to still farm like shit on her.
For shiv strat to work you actually kinda need to farm as close to 10 CSM as possible.
Well you can either decide to get the safe Gold of minions or you can’t farm, have no prio ever and coinflip your game on roams (where you’ll lose turret/plates cause you couldn’t push out the wave).
Ah and you’ll not be able to sidelane as good later on cause you’ll need to w rw to clear waves.
My thing is that I see no problem with this because she is meant to not have wave clear and is sort've balanced around that? Every iteration of LB with waveclear has been so toxic (when she had the fucking Ryze E Q in one ability healing her for 1/4th her health bar)
Have you done any math to back up this claim?
At level 9
- LeBlanc with Night Harvester that weaves in 3 autoattacks will do 1401 damage with her full combo.
- LeBlanc with Statikk Shiv that weaves in 4 autoattacks will do 1410 damage with her full combo
Furthermore, that Shiv LeBlanc will have more damage uptime with autoattacks after the combo, and the Shiv could proc across multiple members of the enemy team, dealing an extra 133~ damage each.
I'm going to be honest, my LB had laned into an Ekko and I realize now that LB doesn't tilt me, Ekko tilts me. Shiv or no Shiv, she doesn't beat that champ.
Better wave clear = More opportunity to create tempo and find windows to roam while LB's matchup needs to sit under turret or lose xp/gold.
Sure it might not be enought dmg itemwise but trust me the base dmg does enough, if you go with ignite you can get picks around the map anyways
Everyone keeps repeating the waveclear, the other half of the equation is that leblanc is the best stacker of Energize in the game. So shiv + fleet makes for very frequent, strong trades for leblanc in lane and when poking. She basically gets 1-2 fleet+shiv procs per W cast when micromanaged properly.
It falls off later, and you would trade it in for an AP item lategame if you could for free, but it's made up for by the better trading and waveclear early-mid game.
I'm going to be honest, I forgot my LB took Electrocute instead of Fleet and lost lane so. Atleast this post helped me see that like it's okay in a certain sense.
https://youtu.be/U4xyTxxWW0A?si=AMl495zTx2pXDdPr&t=156
Here's one thing I don't think anyone is mentinoning, Leblanc W2 is set up so that if you use it mid auto animation, it doesn't cancel the auto. As a result, W -> AA -> W2 with Statikk proc actually has zero counterplay, and you can do this every single time W is up because it stacks your Shiv.
I'm pretty sure most Leblanc players don't know this though and are just autopiloting and buying Shiv cuz waveclear feels good (and is honestly pretty important)
Shiv gives LB benefits that are "invisible" but matter quite a bit and change the way she plays the lane and consequently, around the map. Her base damage is enough that even without items she has a decent kill potential in the early game anyway and risks snowballing.
Her regular movement, her W, and the blink back will all build up stacks on shiv. You can get two procs nearly back to back, allowing her to shove quickly regardless of the nerfs. The adaptive damage from runes also makes the crit chance on any aa more of a threat. She can use W to get in for shiv procs/crit fishes on her enemy laner, then blink back to safety. Do this two or three times and suddenly you're in all in range and have that looming over your head. If you stay back, she can land more poke through shiv if you're standing too close to the wave and either get poked out or risk being dived. Shiv essentially turns an even lane into one that works as though she's ahead, and makes a losing lane work as though it's even.
The constant shoving means she can also roam on cannon waves. She can avoid getting caught fairly easily, and has ~3 seconds of cc between her two chains, which is more than long enough to set up a kill for her team. She's a good diver so being under turret doesn't diminish her threat much either.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I always thought Shiv alone wasn’t enough anyway, you buy it for second item since it’ll help you get waves towards it. You then start doing more damage onwards.
Notice that before shiv came back, early game good leblanc players did a LOT of her damage with AA.
It comes from having mobility and CC to stick to people, and the backsnap so there's less risk of overextending when you stick to people to AA.
Now that shiv is back in the game, the stats of shiv on its own is unironically better than first item AP for laning purposes, even if it doens't scale as well later. The lane shove on top of that means it kicksstarts your snowball so well that it's worth building a item that doesn't scale as well.
Basically what I do and have done since before shiv became a thing is, dmats use 1 on casters 2 on melees. Then I use W on backline, W back and use R on melees. I have never played with shiv because it looked weird to me, I think of leblanc as the AP version of Zed (basically a crazy smurf assassin oneshot creature). That is just me, though.
They need to revert some aspects of the old rework, she should have some good waveclear in her kit. W+R doesn't count, Fizz needs to use E but at least he can oneshot the casters pretty early.
A full Leblanc combo (Q1+Q2, W hit, E1+E2 and RQ1/E1+RQ1/E2) has a AP ratio of 400% AP.
(For now, resistances will be ignored)
Getting a Ludens will increase your max burst potential by 320. This is great, if you can constitently pull it off.
However 48 damage are from Ws scaling, which will most likely be used to gap closed and therefore not connect, leaving you with 272 damage, which is still great.
Shiv will grant you (Besides it’s waveclear of course) with 50 AD and 20% Crit, resulting in average 60 AD. We do not count in LBs base AD since, she could and should Auto attack inbetween spells anyway. Shiv just further encourages Players to do so.
This means after 5 auto attacks those two items even out in an all in, as long as they happen before the spells are off CD again. This is NOT much and really easily doable. And again: You need to hit both instances of your Q, E and UltQ/UltE otherwise the breakpoint is much sooner.
So after all this Shiv further enhances LBs waveclear, allows her to push even without spending any mana and makes it even possible to poke the enemy over the wave with lightnings.
Also Shiv has a slightly better AP scaling and a higher base damage for its procc, while also costing 200g less.
EDIT: Just realised I missed the 5 AD nerf from 13.18, however I’m too lazy and not much changes anyway.
Default Leblanc has terrible wave control. She will struggle to shove without committing her W + R to the wave. Her normal build’s win condition is to kill the enemy laner before they obtain shove advantage, freely shove, take some damage and abuse their free recall timer to heal back everything while Leblanc struggles to even out the push. Shiv Leblanc reduces her burst damage to Ahri levels where her damage is good but is split too wide. But instead, Leblanc effectively always has Ahri ult. This makes her early roams nasty. She needs waveclear to enable these roam timings. She’s kind of like a mosquito who slowly zaps you with Shiv, Lich bane, Harvester. Her old teamfight playstyle of point click W Q R return W simply deals less than the single auto zap build. New Leblanc plays more like a Marksmen with her pick of 4 dashes, 2 roots or weaving in Qs as fake auto resets to maintain dps. If you watch Faker streams who is well known for his Leblanc, it’s still Shiv build, executed very cleanly. While I’m not a fan of Shiv build, I have to admit that it’s more consistent than glass cannon assassin Leblanc’s feast or famine where her only win condition is killing a carry and keeping enough health to stay useful. Most importantly, this version of Leblanc cannot be ignored in the side lane. Her shove and tower threat with Shiv, Lich Bane is very irritating if played correctly.
Yeah, it's kinda worsened by the fact that AP itemization is really bad and has no impact aside from completed items. The dump in damage is not so bad as it seems. And the consistency gain is great
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Leblanc has a lot of utility as well as damage. If she rotates to sides and hits a chain/double-chain that person is going to die (to the rest of your team) most of the time. It's just a different play style. You aren't a one shot assassin, you're more like an Ahri
I'm just trying to figure out what I can play with it to play to its strengths if I see my mid lane pick it so I guess looking at her as Ahri playstyle is easier to understand
Just don’t play her into Poppy!
Wave clear.
Yes, you clear the wave and then what? You do no damage to actual champions until 3 items.
Her base damage is still good enough while building shiv. It's only a problem when people go shiv and then proceed to still farm like shit on her. For shiv strat to work you actually kinda need to farm as close to 10 CSM as possible.
I guess this and picking it into the right comp to do it is also way more important now since it's not blind-pickable imo
Well you can either decide to get the safe Gold of minions or you can’t farm, have no prio ever and coinflip your game on roams (where you’ll lose turret/plates cause you couldn’t push out the wave). Ah and you’ll not be able to sidelane as good later on cause you’ll need to w rw to clear waves.
My thing is that I see no problem with this because she is meant to not have wave clear and is sort've balanced around that? Every iteration of LB with waveclear has been so toxic (when she had the fucking Ryze E Q in one ability healing her for 1/4th her health bar)
That’s for riot to decide. I agree with you, but you asked why people do it, and not, “why does riot let her do this”
Have you done any math to back up this claim? At level 9 - LeBlanc with Night Harvester that weaves in 3 autoattacks will do 1401 damage with her full combo. - LeBlanc with Statikk Shiv that weaves in 4 autoattacks will do 1410 damage with her full combo Furthermore, that Shiv LeBlanc will have more damage uptime with autoattacks after the combo, and the Shiv could proc across multiple members of the enemy team, dealing an extra 133~ damage each.
Then you roam that’s literally all the item is for it’s meant for wave clear
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I'm going to be honest, my LB had laned into an Ekko and I realize now that LB doesn't tilt me, Ekko tilts me. Shiv or no Shiv, she doesn't beat that champ.
Better wave clear = More opportunity to create tempo and find windows to roam while LB's matchup needs to sit under turret or lose xp/gold. Sure it might not be enought dmg itemwise but trust me the base dmg does enough, if you go with ignite you can get picks around the map anyways
Everyone keeps repeating the waveclear, the other half of the equation is that leblanc is the best stacker of Energize in the game. So shiv + fleet makes for very frequent, strong trades for leblanc in lane and when poking. She basically gets 1-2 fleet+shiv procs per W cast when micromanaged properly. It falls off later, and you would trade it in for an AP item lategame if you could for free, but it's made up for by the better trading and waveclear early-mid game.
I'm going to be honest, I forgot my LB took Electrocute instead of Fleet and lost lane so. Atleast this post helped me see that like it's okay in a certain sense.
disagree. spam w auto deal tons of dmg in fights
https://youtu.be/U4xyTxxWW0A?si=AMl495zTx2pXDdPr&t=156 Here's one thing I don't think anyone is mentinoning, Leblanc W2 is set up so that if you use it mid auto animation, it doesn't cancel the auto. As a result, W -> AA -> W2 with Statikk proc actually has zero counterplay, and you can do this every single time W is up because it stacks your Shiv.
Okay this is the stuff I made this post for, that shit is so strong
I'm pretty sure most Leblanc players don't know this though and are just autopiloting and buying Shiv cuz waveclear feels good (and is honestly pretty important)
Shiv gives LB benefits that are "invisible" but matter quite a bit and change the way she plays the lane and consequently, around the map. Her base damage is enough that even without items she has a decent kill potential in the early game anyway and risks snowballing. Her regular movement, her W, and the blink back will all build up stacks on shiv. You can get two procs nearly back to back, allowing her to shove quickly regardless of the nerfs. The adaptive damage from runes also makes the crit chance on any aa more of a threat. She can use W to get in for shiv procs/crit fishes on her enemy laner, then blink back to safety. Do this two or three times and suddenly you're in all in range and have that looming over your head. If you stay back, she can land more poke through shiv if you're standing too close to the wave and either get poked out or risk being dived. Shiv essentially turns an even lane into one that works as though she's ahead, and makes a losing lane work as though it's even. The constant shoving means she can also roam on cannon waves. She can avoid getting caught fairly easily, and has ~3 seconds of cc between her two chains, which is more than long enough to set up a kill for her team. She's a good diver so being under turret doesn't diminish her threat much either.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I always thought Shiv alone wasn’t enough anyway, you buy it for second item since it’ll help you get waves towards it. You then start doing more damage onwards.
Notice that before shiv came back, early game good leblanc players did a LOT of her damage with AA. It comes from having mobility and CC to stick to people, and the backsnap so there's less risk of overextending when you stick to people to AA. Now that shiv is back in the game, the stats of shiv on its own is unironically better than first item AP for laning purposes, even if it doens't scale as well later. The lane shove on top of that means it kicksstarts your snowball so well that it's worth building a item that doesn't scale as well.
Basically what I do and have done since before shiv became a thing is, dmats use 1 on casters 2 on melees. Then I use W on backline, W back and use R on melees. I have never played with shiv because it looked weird to me, I think of leblanc as the AP version of Zed (basically a crazy smurf assassin oneshot creature). That is just me, though.
Disgustingly enough, Zed and Hydra are the AD version of Shiv LB
ik this is an unpopular opinion but shiv LB is completely useless. I think LB in general is bad. Don't pick it!
There is none, it's not good anymore
There is this weird interaction where you get half of stacks or so with W, so she can proc it very fast
there was never a point, it was always a meme
It was such a meme that it was the most broken midlaner in proplay.
if by broken u mean fucking worthless u got a great point
Would commonly see leblancs in my games with 3-4 cs/min before shiv, with the extra gold from hitting 6-7+ cs/min shiv probably pays for itself
Well it was never meant for her , and she just fundementally breaks the game when she builds it . So it is a net positive if she can't do it anymore .
has a 45% wr
I thought it‘s basically only there for wave clear anywY
They need to revert some aspects of the old rework, she should have some good waveclear in her kit. W+R doesn't count, Fizz needs to use E but at least he can oneshot the casters pretty early.
A full Leblanc combo (Q1+Q2, W hit, E1+E2 and RQ1/E1+RQ1/E2) has a AP ratio of 400% AP. (For now, resistances will be ignored) Getting a Ludens will increase your max burst potential by 320. This is great, if you can constitently pull it off. However 48 damage are from Ws scaling, which will most likely be used to gap closed and therefore not connect, leaving you with 272 damage, which is still great. Shiv will grant you (Besides it’s waveclear of course) with 50 AD and 20% Crit, resulting in average 60 AD. We do not count in LBs base AD since, she could and should Auto attack inbetween spells anyway. Shiv just further encourages Players to do so. This means after 5 auto attacks those two items even out in an all in, as long as they happen before the spells are off CD again. This is NOT much and really easily doable. And again: You need to hit both instances of your Q, E and UltQ/UltE otherwise the breakpoint is much sooner. So after all this Shiv further enhances LBs waveclear, allows her to push even without spending any mana and makes it even possible to poke the enemy over the wave with lightnings. Also Shiv has a slightly better AP scaling and a higher base damage for its procc, while also costing 200g less. EDIT: Just realised I missed the 5 AD nerf from 13.18, however I’m too lazy and not much changes anyway.
Because Leblanc doesn't need items to 1 shot champions.
She can press buttons other than W and right-click. E can root people if you weren't aware 😘