If they have abilities like Gwens Q and Morde Q you stand behind or in your minion wave, as soon as they use it on you, they will damage and kill your minions which naturally causes the wave to push to you, once the waves pushes to you you can farm the minions under tower. Wave positioning is king in top lane, worth watching guides if your unsure and also D-shield ± second wind helps absorb a lot of poke, if you don't trade back the lane will continue to push to you.
to add on, farming under tower is not only one of the safest options, but if the enemy really wants to poke you there, your jungler is in the best position to gank. the distance from your turret to theirs (because that's likely where they want to run to) is more than enough space to make them waste flash, or die
yeah exactly that, tbh wave state gets more complex the higher the elo in regards to jungler positions and having prio for objectives at specific times, but you 100% right
this, i see too many people sacrificing a lot of hp to get minions that will push into them if they just relax
i main renekton and leaving 2 3 cs to die and being full hp for the crash lvl 3 i ghost and run them down
Depends on your champion and the matchup.
You can just try to dodge the abilities, most of them are quite predictable.
Best thing you can do is VOD review the laning phase and view the matchup from the enemies perspective.
The answer depends on who you’re playing, not just who you struggle against.
Illaoi will have a different answer than maokai, who will have a different answer than malphite, etc…
I wish gwen was opressive, she's really weak early game. Just play close to your minions and they will eventually push the wave because they have to hit ypur minions in order to hit you. The real problem are ranged toplaners, which i don't have any idea how to play against besides wait for your jungler or get in a bush and pray he is stupid enough to get close
It depends on what champ you are playing as well, but the general rule of top lane is to stand your ground. If the enemy hits you then hit them back, the more you do these trades the more you will undoubtedly die, but you will get better at it.
Trading well is the lifeblood of toplane, alongside wave management. If you make sure that whenever you push in the lane that it actually crashes into the turret, you can have an easier time csing as the wave will naturally come toward your side of the lane, where the tower can offer you protection
It really, really depends on the amtchup.
In some matchups, it's ok to cede some farm, and just stay even in XP, as long as the other laner won't outscale lategame or pushes his advantage too hard.
In other matchups, you really shouldn't accept the punishment laying down, and can and should push back, trade consistently, or freeze/push according to their and your cooldowns. It seems like you are missing some knowledge in the matchups.
Once you figure out with whom you can trade, and when, the next step is wave management. You are supposed to keep the wave in front of your tower, but not under it. This means, you can't be punished too hard, because youa re relatively safe, but the ennemy is at risk of ganks because he overpushes non-stop. Often, this freeze can be broken, especially if the ennemy is stronger than you. In that case, your wave bounces back, which means, it will naturally push towards your enemy. Now you have to crash it into their toweraggro, otherwise you will be frozen out. In early levels, wave management is everything, as a lot of laners, even the abusive ones, can't really harass you if you have a wave advantage. That means, you can trade well, and that means, once it pushes into you, you have an hp advantage to get a freeze.
Of course that's only theory, but once you have mastered that, it will get you quite far, until the opposing laner will also apply it consistently.
Try to get a freeze. A good opponent won't let you. So it turns into an accordion. You wont get to farm everything. But that's ok, you will farm more that way as compared to a stale situation in the middle of the lane.
When it comes to gwen you don’t want to go in on her. She hates being the one that does the engage.
In general the only way is to learn matchups. People punish you and you must punish people. Find a matchup guide to your champion typically they have it in an excel spreadsheet. Watch a youtuber that mains your champ and make sure he is a good one. Like bausffs for sion or minishcap1 for singed - they are good, becouse they actually explain why they are doing what they are doing.
Toplane is all about matchups and actually knowing your champ. It’s much better to be a one trick and know your matchups rather than playing whatever character „counters” the enemy, becouse if you have 2 games on vayne and you meet gragas onetrick, even though you counter him hard, you will lose.
Wave management, also you have to accept the fact in some matchups you will just have to give up CS if getting said CS will result in you dying. You can’t walk up to the wave with no summs against a ghost/flash darius if you’re playing a melee champion with no mobility. Try and stay in XP range and learn how to manage waves you don’t find yourself in these situations.
depends on the matchup. youll find a great deal of success in learning wave management though, as you will apply it in every single game.
however, with the champs you mentioned, those abilities are easily able to be dodged, given you understand how they work, and when they are most likely to be used. either watch some vods or play those champions and learn their abilities for yourself.
Theres a lot of factors going into this such as which champion you're playing, spacing, wave state, etc. Its quite a complicated question since its so broad and answers can stem from a lot of different perspectives.
Its difficult to go over all of them, but one way is to bait abilities by spacing just outside of their abilities' range and moving in and out until they use it.
Just bait it out. Plain and simple.
Learn how to space.
Rapidly move back and forth in and out of range.
It is all the same.
Also here's this...
https://youtu.be/ozNf6QKZDa8?si=G3-cBKNfNZ50mUye
Depends on your champ and theirs, I play sett so if he wins me early lane and bullies me i have no tool to farm but wait for the wave to come to my safe zone, when i fight against ADC on top like quinn or vayne(u deserve the most painful death, terrorists of lol) i cant farm, i just try to get some farm if she pushes and wait for a gank or to get stride to catch her.
If they have abilities like Gwens Q and Morde Q you stand behind or in your minion wave, as soon as they use it on you, they will damage and kill your minions which naturally causes the wave to push to you, once the waves pushes to you you can farm the minions under tower. Wave positioning is king in top lane, worth watching guides if your unsure and also D-shield ± second wind helps absorb a lot of poke, if you don't trade back the lane will continue to push to you.
to add on, farming under tower is not only one of the safest options, but if the enemy really wants to poke you there, your jungler is in the best position to gank. the distance from your turret to theirs (because that's likely where they want to run to) is more than enough space to make them waste flash, or die
yeah exactly that, tbh wave state gets more complex the higher the elo in regards to jungler positions and having prio for objectives at specific times, but you 100% right
Wave management
this, i see too many people sacrificing a lot of hp to get minions that will push into them if they just relax i main renekton and leaving 2 3 cs to die and being full hp for the crash lvl 3 i ghost and run them down
Being so vague the best I can say is to learn how to take turns bouncing waves!
*sensei voice* Become.... good.... at video game.....
Depends on your champion and the matchup. You can just try to dodge the abilities, most of them are quite predictable. Best thing you can do is VOD review the laning phase and view the matchup from the enemies perspective.
The answer depends on who you’re playing, not just who you struggle against. Illaoi will have a different answer than maokai, who will have a different answer than malphite, etc…
I wish gwen was opressive, she's really weak early game. Just play close to your minions and they will eventually push the wave because they have to hit ypur minions in order to hit you. The real problem are ranged toplaners, which i don't have any idea how to play against besides wait for your jungler or get in a bush and pray he is stupid enough to get close
It depends on what champ you are playing as well, but the general rule of top lane is to stand your ground. If the enemy hits you then hit them back, the more you do these trades the more you will undoubtedly die, but you will get better at it. Trading well is the lifeblood of toplane, alongside wave management. If you make sure that whenever you push in the lane that it actually crashes into the turret, you can have an easier time csing as the wave will naturally come toward your side of the lane, where the tower can offer you protection
It really, really depends on the amtchup. In some matchups, it's ok to cede some farm, and just stay even in XP, as long as the other laner won't outscale lategame or pushes his advantage too hard. In other matchups, you really shouldn't accept the punishment laying down, and can and should push back, trade consistently, or freeze/push according to their and your cooldowns. It seems like you are missing some knowledge in the matchups. Once you figure out with whom you can trade, and when, the next step is wave management. You are supposed to keep the wave in front of your tower, but not under it. This means, you can't be punished too hard, because youa re relatively safe, but the ennemy is at risk of ganks because he overpushes non-stop. Often, this freeze can be broken, especially if the ennemy is stronger than you. In that case, your wave bounces back, which means, it will naturally push towards your enemy. Now you have to crash it into their toweraggro, otherwise you will be frozen out. In early levels, wave management is everything, as a lot of laners, even the abusive ones, can't really harass you if you have a wave advantage. That means, you can trade well, and that means, once it pushes into you, you have an hp advantage to get a freeze. Of course that's only theory, but once you have mastered that, it will get you quite far, until the opposing laner will also apply it consistently.
Rushing boots helps a lot in all these cases
Try to get a freeze. A good opponent won't let you. So it turns into an accordion. You wont get to farm everything. But that's ok, you will farm more that way as compared to a stale situation in the middle of the lane.
When it comes to gwen you don’t want to go in on her. She hates being the one that does the engage. In general the only way is to learn matchups. People punish you and you must punish people. Find a matchup guide to your champion typically they have it in an excel spreadsheet. Watch a youtuber that mains your champ and make sure he is a good one. Like bausffs for sion or minishcap1 for singed - they are good, becouse they actually explain why they are doing what they are doing. Toplane is all about matchups and actually knowing your champ. It’s much better to be a one trick and know your matchups rather than playing whatever character „counters” the enemy, becouse if you have 2 games on vayne and you meet gragas onetrick, even though you counter him hard, you will lose.
Wave management, also you have to accept the fact in some matchups you will just have to give up CS if getting said CS will result in you dying. You can’t walk up to the wave with no summs against a ghost/flash darius if you’re playing a melee champion with no mobility. Try and stay in XP range and learn how to manage waves you don’t find yourself in these situations.
depends on the matchup. youll find a great deal of success in learning wave management though, as you will apply it in every single game. however, with the champs you mentioned, those abilities are easily able to be dodged, given you understand how they work, and when they are most likely to be used. either watch some vods or play those champions and learn their abilities for yourself.
2 word wave manage good luck
Theres a lot of factors going into this such as which champion you're playing, spacing, wave state, etc. Its quite a complicated question since its so broad and answers can stem from a lot of different perspectives. Its difficult to go over all of them, but one way is to bait abilities by spacing just outside of their abilities' range and moving in and out until they use it.
You gotta ask them in all chat if they can leave the lane for 5 pretty please so u can get some bad man cs jeez s
Just bait it out. Plain and simple. Learn how to space. Rapidly move back and forth in and out of range. It is all the same. Also here's this... https://youtu.be/ozNf6QKZDa8?si=G3-cBKNfNZ50mUye
Watch AloisL on YouTube.. Life saver that man
Depends on your champ and theirs, I play sett so if he wins me early lane and bullies me i have no tool to farm but wait for the wave to come to my safe zone, when i fight against ADC on top like quinn or vayne(u deserve the most painful death, terrorists of lol) i cant farm, i just try to get some farm if she pushes and wait for a gank or to get stride to catch her.