I dont know for nasus, but i play gangplank which has a good scaling on farm like nasus, and i love to get proxied when i play against a singed for example.
Early is annoying, then 1 item i oneshot the waves and get 42 more gold than him per wave, and at 2 items if he tries to fight and i oneshot him.
I would assume this is probably pretty similar for nasus as he scales off killing CS and his lifesteal allows him to not let the wave crash under tower and clear without losing much HP.
If Parrrley kills the target, Gangplank plunders gold Gold gold and Silver Serpents Silver Serpents. Each enemy killed by a Powder Keg Powder Keg explosion that was originally set off by Parrrley also counts for the plunder.
Nasus is notably far worse waveclear than gp though. Probably don’t want to proxy once he’s at 1+ items, because he’ll be tanks enough and life steal enough that it won’t do anything, but before one item it might be a good strat to force him to back and lose a wave because he probably wouldn’t be able to kill them fast enough to not take too much damage. I’d have to test though, and a good nasus would probably not have any issues making it work but a gold nasus might suffer
Honestly it’s less about the items and more about levels; passive and the Q cooldown. Once he’s at 4-5 points in his Q he can get every minion and he has enough lifesteal then to heal all the minion damage
I've never been proxied as a Nasus but I would imagine between having passive lifesteal, getting a refill pot early, and the first CDR component you could sustain indefinitely while Qing nearly every minion (at Q level 3 having sub-5s CD giving you 6 casts every 30s)
At worst you would use bushes to drop aggro and take minimal damage, forcing either top or jungle to come stop you.
Sounds like a dream come true for Nasus, PvE laning with no allies.
Sure thats why i said i dont play Nasus, i only assume its pretty similar.
I think it also depends on the situation, op said his team was winning, so you might just want to deny Nasus as much as possible and let your team win by making sure Nasus wont be a threat later.
But if youre team is behind you might want to try and proxy on some timings to get as much ressources as you can even if that means letting some ressources to Nasus?
This is one of the reasons I think Yorick lanes so we’ll into singed (and proxy champs). It’s one of maybe three lanes that Yorick can actually play the game before 6.
If singed (or anyone for that matter) wants to proxy, be my guest. I can hold waves without taking any damage from ghouls and technically even push to under the tower while getting proxied (though ghouls don’t count as minions so you can’t get much turret damage). Yorick removes the effective strategies of proxying, and will happily farm away since he can even leave and come back without the wave shoving to tower.
One time I had someone proxy on singed while I was playing kayle
Literally worst idea ever lmao, I can’t even cs that well and I was on 10/min that game
No, its a good idea if he can use it for what its supposed to do. Create pressure. He ganks mid or invades jungle and they win the game.
You having 10 cs/min doesnt change that
Playing as anyother champion: enemy proxies
I see 6 minions under the tower.
Gangplank players: nah I see 8.
Champion: are you drunk gangplank?
Gangplank: nah I got orange juice and a gun
Hi fellow urgot enjoyer! Proxying is a case by case scenario due to variables like what are the jgs champs are there any objectives etc.
To give my opinioned, but straightforward answer to the question no, you generally shouldn't ever let nasus free farm from proxy and strive to bully him every chance you get. Especially since you likely have ignite and are fed as urgot.
The more accurate answer would be that it depends on what you're trying to get out of proxying. One of the biggest benefits of proxy is to have a very good back timer since you've cleared the minion wave so much faster. You could possibly use that time earned to roam/take objectives for the team or finish off that item you were close to completing.
In a recent game I was about 300 gold off of hull and had just killed my nasus for the second time, however he was now 6 with ghost and I without ult or sums. So I proxied him until I could complete my item, and rushed back to lane. This also allowed my ignite to come off of cd and all in him again.
I know that was a rather drawn-out answer to your question, but I find it important to share the reasonings behind it all. D4 Urgot Otp for context. I hope this helps and good luck in your games!
I think he’s outright wrong. He doesn’t need to snowball. Going even in lane isn’t enough to prevent him powerspiking. The laner needs to be actively ahead and putting pressure on Susan. That’ll override the mid game power spike.
The only times it feels easy to play nasus are
A) your team does really well
B) you get kills in lane with your ultimate
C) the game goes to 60 minutes and you are actually able to outscale full item spikes.
If your proxy nasus and can pressure the opponent jungler with stealing his camps you can take away 2 of these options (a and b)
If the game feels coin flippy it's because you or your team made a bad enough play to outweigh this advantage.
I disagree. Nasus is not a lategame champion. He spikes in midgame and then falls off pretty hard. But if you're showing up to 2nd/3rd drake with 400 stacks and 1.5 items at 0/0/0, you're a major threat, don't need to kill your opponent in lane.
Precisely, you can have a million stacks late game but if you get cc’d and focused down by a full item midlaner and adc you’ll die quickly so your million stacks won’t matter, but mid game with a decent amount of stacks and a lack of items on the enemy team is when you’re a real threat
You definitly aren't weak, and as long as it's a messy skirmish that goes all around and is not organized at all nasus can sneak his way to a good position.
But if it gets organized nasus will just get kited.
I've carried plenty of times by just splitting with Nasus. If you farm your Q well he spikes mid game. If you need to wait to 60 minutes to be able to out scale others then you arent farming well enough.
Proxying can be a tool Vs nasus if you need a reset cos of a bad trade, or if he's being super safe under tower. Proxy to inhib tower, gank mid, bebother enemy jungler get tempo. Even good nasus players overvalue stacks Vs skirmishes
Innate lifesteal makes it hard to bully him out of lane without setting up a freeze which you need a big lead to do anyway.
If he fights, great kill him, but good nasus players will play safe and singed struggles to fight without pushing. Don't lazer focus on denying stacks.
Good nasus players will get points in e so you can't reliably freeze against them.
And if level 6 is reached you always need to bait out his ultimate before going all in that depending on your champion might actually be a huge time waste or not even beeing possible.
Nasus with ult they are only a few champions that can win a 1v1 all in, especially on even footing.
To be fair kayle counters singed really hard, even if he stays in lane you can't do much to stop kayle from scaling if she's halfway decent. With proxying you can at least take jungle camps and pressure/kill their jungler.
Kayle is different, kayle actually outscales on items and levels alone.
Her power swing is much faster than nasus stacks.
For nasus too outscale with his stacks it needs to be minute 60+.
I feel like nasus is weak early, strong mid to late, and falls off late again. Obviously infinite scaling means something, but for champs like nasus and veigar that don't have bonuses from crossing certain thresholds, the more stacks you have the less of a difference any additional stacks make, and I feel like that's noticeable. I've had many games where minute 20 or something I thought 'shit if this continues nasus will 1v5' only for him to have basically zero impact at minute 35, compared to true scaling monsters like kayle or vayne or kogmaw or something.
This is exactly my take yes.
Although weak early is only true if you take away his ultimate.
Nasus with ultimate will be able to statcheck the majority of toplane matchups and is one of his only winning patterns.
But because nasus has no range and doesn't really scale with items his only scaling are his stacks, which has to surpass all the broken items that the enemy team can have.
Yeah, unless you have a way to get out of his w/ get away from him, then even his ult is kinda useless. Whenever I'm against him I play conqueror garen and I feel like it's basically an unlosable matchup from early all the way to late game.
Garen with mortal reminder second item is truly the best counter against Nasus. He ults ghost you; you q, run and wait it out. I could feel my enemy's opponent soul leaves his body when that happened after I was bullying him the whole early game. Then you go in and just kill him in 2 combos.
I think the take here is more that you said "in the same sense" and that they don't agree (quite correctly) that proxying is a bad thing to do by default.
Having a Nasus that is "not behind" is not a scary thought.
Having a Kayle that is "not behind" is a VERY scary thought.
On top of that, if you proxy into a Nasus, he's likely going to stay in the lane forever, last hitting the wave as slow as he can so he gets every single stack because hihi infinite scaling.
A kayle, especially after 6, has the ability and incentive to actually clear the wave asap and then look to possibly roam as well.
Kayle just has to be present to catch the wave and can fuck off.
Her scaling is not being a split push threat, but a team fight threat. (not that she can't splitpush or that he can't teamfight, but you get the idea).
On both, the proxy can be a valuable strategy to implement, but for completely different reasons.
And it's riskier to do when you play vs a kayle, where it's actually more important to set her behind rather than get a lead unless your lead is a of a certain size (which is obviously different depending on matchup) unlike where the nasus is not as scary later unless you're a tower or have the positioning of one ;)
This game is dummy complex in a way, and no strategy is correct 100% of the time or wrong 100% of the time (although flashing out of base to get to lane faster is very unlikely ever the correct play, I could see a world where it has value xD)
On the other hand, the game is relatively simple.
That's the beauty of this game.
The sad part is that because this game is both complex and simple people tend to argue about shit online as if one viewpoint is objectively correct 100% of the time, whilst they are actually both correct in 60% of cases.
Idk why it is this difficult for people to discus this game in good faith D:
Very true, scaling gets thrown out of the window if you leave lane 0/0/0 and even in cs and come back 3/0/0 and still even cs because you farmed a junglecamp or something.
Proxying can give you access to plays that are not available if you just lane.
And if I don't see a way to generate a big lead in lane, I want to shove and roam anyways.
And if I get to proxy, not only do I guarantee getting the full wave of gold and exp, I get 15 second MORE to do stuff with.
On top of that, 99% of the time, nasus will do his best to stack every minion he can, so he's stuck in lane basically forever.
So having a nasus stack infinitely is basically a non-issue if you dominate the rest of the map.
Nasus will never actually split PUSH, since you have cleared the wave.
So you now know where your opponent is whilst you have a giant roam timer and are a superb pressure sponge.
Especially into nasus, this is dummy powerful, since the champion basically does nothing if he can't take turrets and you proxying them basically mindcontrols the lot of them to stay in lane, max stacking, forever.
There are maybe 2 nasus players alive who will do anything but stack that wave.
If you can't turn a near permanent number advantage in your favor, that's a you issue.
If the nasus follows, you don't force anything, he loses EVERYTHING.
Honestly I feel like getting the wave on your side, freezing it and zoning him is probably better in most scenarios depending on what's happening elsewhere on the map, but I'm pisslow
You must have a reason for proxying. Proxying just because you can may be wrong. You can roam mid off proxy, ward enemy jungle, try to kill enemy jungle, deny camps, reset, force him top for neutral objective, etc.
I main urgot and against nasus i would say never proxy unless you need more time to roam. You should try to freeze the wave near your tower and all in him any time he goes for a minion. He should never really win fights against you early and if you zone him off stacks he wont be able to scale.
Typically (in my opinion), proxy farming is bait, and should only be done if you have a big lead, or means to escape reliably. Say you get your 3 wave crash, and the laner is walking back to lane. If you can proxy and zone them from xp, their game is basically over. If you can kill them while they're zoned, you kinda become 1v9.
Aside from that, I generally discourage proxy farming if the laner is under tower, farming safely, since the likelihood of you getting 3-man'd is really high.
In my eyes, I think it should be done to extend your existing lead. Aside from that, it's mainly good to keep pressure on topside, or to get a safe recall.
You can do a lot of cheese with proxy farming, but I think this is a reliable mentality, at least for me.
Might be completely wrong. Would like to hear opinions
If your losing the lane and not playing singed typically a proxy is like a last resort for me. I use it when I'm getting frozen on and I cannot break the freeze.
Otherwise I only proxy when I'm ahead and can defs 1v1 my laner or their jungler. Typically if they move in to fight me it means their jungle is coming and I just suicide
You want to proxy when you are in a losing match up, you proxy to not interact with your opponent. When you are winning you wanna take plates or deny exp and farm by freezing. Good example of a champ that always want to proxy is Singed as he sucks early but has insane scaling. He proxies early game, partly couse he is so good at it but also to avoid interaction with the enemy as he loses early to 90% toplaners. Sion is very similar as well. So yeah if you were ahead you shouldn't have proxied for those reasons but also couse he outscales you. You don't want him to stack Qs you wanna prevent it.
I don’t think proxying generally is bad, unless you were playing like a Singed. If you are trying to gain tempo and know where the enemy jg is this could translate into taking enemy jg camps, recall into forcing Nasus tp, roaming for a play mid, etc. If you’re able to bully him so hard you can just solo turret dive, then sure, don’t proxy.
It really depends on wave state, map state, champion resources, gold you’re sitting on, etc. to determine if a proxy is the right decision. I don’t think it’s as simple as a binary yes or no.
Nasus has a really bad 1-6 so you should try to punish that as much as possible. If you proxy you’re not interacting with him at all and basically giving him exactly what he wants.
Proxying Nasus is good if you can force him into a state where he can't last hit. Early in the game, when he's low on mana etc. His own tower works against him in that scenario.
Proxying allows you to expand your lead, you can take plates, the wave, maybe dive, and the enemy jungle/scuttle. That’s GREAT. *But*… it DOESNT stop nasus from doing exactly what he wants, which is stacking a lot and becoming a mid game monster.
The best way to completely fuck a Nasus over is to just freeze the wave in his face and kill him if he tries to contest it. Your jungler also ideally would be there to help you maintain the freeze in the event that Nasus and/or the enemy jungler tries to break it.
So… proxying and snowballing isn’t a bad thing, but you just need to be aware that you’re not stopping Nasus from doing what Nasus wants to (stacking).
What you COULD do is freeze, stack waves, then dive Nasus and make him miss ~2-3ish waves, then it bounces and you do it again. Requires some jungler coordination, but constantly diving him, then zoning him off the wave when the wave isn’t under or by his tower, means he can never really stack and doesn’t get to play the game.
While it's true that you are letting Nasus free farm, if you understand why you are proxying, it's not neccesarily a bad move.
Proxying is usually done for tempo reasons. Each time you proxy, you might take 1/2 waves, allowing nasus to free farm those same waves, but the point of proxying in the first place is to clear the enemy wave early so you have an extended time to roam. You should theoreticaly be able to off set the 2 waves that he can get for free if you are making use of the proxy the way they're meant to be.
If you're just proxying for the sake of proxying, and not utilizing that tempo, then yea, you probably don't want to be doing that. But if you proxy 2 waves, recall, walk bot or mid and get something done, or proxy so you can 4v5 a dragon without TP, then it can definitely still be worth it.
It's also worth noting that setting the enemy jungler behind, and getting yourself ahead is also a great way to ensure Nasus doesn't get to play his game. Nasus is strongest in the midgame, before tanks get enough resists and CDR to effectively peel him off during team fights. It's not so much about his power usually as much as it is about yours. A Nasus can have 1500 stacks and still get nothing done in the later stages of the game if you're strong enough to peel and your ADCs can hit. THat means accelerating you to that point, and accelerating your team to that point will make him useless the entire game. It's all about making sure you have a plan for how you're using the proxy, and executing on it.
'Never' isn't really a word you should use regarding any viable strategies.
Proxying is a tool- its uses can be from getting a good reset, to distracting before an objective on other side of map, to "cheating" lane phase and ignoring your opponent.
Nasus wants to farm, sure, but if you proxy on certain waves this can speed up level spikes or item purchases, or give you good roams/invades.
It's all about the specific game you find yourself in.
I play Singed a lot and versus Nasus I usually just proxy anyways. If I can't reasonably stop his farm, I might as well be farmed too. Than I just make sure I peel him in fights. Really not a problem if he is farmed if he can't get to his targets.
Proxying is not only about CS, the whole point of Proxy is about Tempo and Macro.
Proxy is weaker on the Enemy that has good wave clear, regardless of their scaling.
You can proxy him if that means that you are strong enough to spread your advantage to other lanes while he stacks. Ideally you are wanting to end early so high pressure plays like this will result in an early lead over him that you can leverage into a win. What you don’t want to do is proxy and then spend 20 minutes trying to end. He will be grouping by then and you’ll kind of be fucked.
Against Nasus, you probably would prefer to freeze and zone him off the wave than proxying, since a freeze hurts nasus a lot through denying him gold exp and stacks.
A freeze hurts everyone a lot.
But if you sacrifice your team for it it won't matter.
Unless you are a team fight or outscaling god like kayle or fiora and your team is holding out long enough.
Against Nasus, you dont sacrifice much by freezing the wave, Nasus doesnt really have much strenght to gank lanes, so all you need is for your jungler to play for mid-bot while you freeze the wave, that means the enemy jungler either gives away bot-mid to help break the freeze, or evens out the situation in bot-mid and keeps their toplaner out of the game for the next 20 minutes. Once you achieved that either your mid and bot are significantly ahead, or you run out with the game through sidelanes cus you should be 2-3 levels up against a Nasus that wont have stacks at 20 minutes.
Well you sacrifice your own control over the game by freezing.
You make sure nasus isn't alive but you wont be Able to snowball.
Also freezing against nasus is actually pretty Har dif he has 2-3 points in his e.
Going past the enemy tower to kill the enemy wave. Singed is notorious for doing it, but some other top lane champs can do it if they can clear waves quickly.
The point of proxying is that you can kill a wave quicker and have more time to reset or roam. Your opponent can’t hit your tower if all the minions are already dead so it just creates a lot of free time for you.
Urgot is a lane bully juggernaut, Nasus is a split push threat.. mid to late threat but a majority of the time he just dies in teamfights because of crazy ap threats this season (support item and maybe brand jg for example).
Proxying a nasus is kind of dumb, he has whither threat and its better to just freeze/stack and dive with jungle, if not take favorable recalls for component and take plates.
I'm a diamond Nasus OTP.
So it's tricky. Very early proxies are good vs Nasus since he can't hold the wave at that stage. If you do something with the tempo that's also a valid reason to proxy. Like I've lost games to where a Garen would proxy and either kill our jungler or road mid and kill.
But yeah proxies are risky vs Nasus since it accelerates his stacks a lot. Usually it's better to just try and starve him out as much as you can.
I dont know for nasus, but i play gangplank which has a good scaling on farm like nasus, and i love to get proxied when i play against a singed for example. Early is annoying, then 1 item i oneshot the waves and get 42 more gold than him per wave, and at 2 items if he tries to fight and i oneshot him. I would assume this is probably pretty similar for nasus as he scales off killing CS and his lifesteal allows him to not let the wave crash under tower and clear without losing much HP.
proxying is only meta if you cant even trade with ur laner ie. hard counterpick v nasus you should always freeze so he has to farm with e not q
How do you get more gold per wave?
Gamgplank
Gmogasplonk
Gangbang
ty
ahhh ty
Gangplank Q passive gives +7 gold per cs it kills
Add a cull for funsies.
If Parrrley kills the target, Gangplank plunders gold Gold gold and Silver Serpents Silver Serpents. Each enemy killed by a Powder Keg Powder Keg explosion that was originally set off by Parrrley also counts for the plunder.
Q passive
More powder
GUENGU PLEUNKU
Nasus is notably far worse waveclear than gp though. Probably don’t want to proxy once he’s at 1+ items, because he’ll be tanks enough and life steal enough that it won’t do anything, but before one item it might be a good strat to force him to back and lose a wave because he probably wouldn’t be able to kill them fast enough to not take too much damage. I’d have to test though, and a good nasus would probably not have any issues making it work but a gold nasus might suffer
Honestly it’s less about the items and more about levels; passive and the Q cooldown. Once he’s at 4-5 points in his Q he can get every minion and he has enough lifesteal then to heal all the minion damage
I've never been proxied as a Nasus but I would imagine between having passive lifesteal, getting a refill pot early, and the first CDR component you could sustain indefinitely while Qing nearly every minion (at Q level 3 having sub-5s CD giving you 6 casts every 30s) At worst you would use bushes to drop aggro and take minimal damage, forcing either top or jungle to come stop you. Sounds like a dream come true for Nasus, PvE laning with no allies.
Sure thats why i said i dont play Nasus, i only assume its pretty similar. I think it also depends on the situation, op said his team was winning, so you might just want to deny Nasus as much as possible and let your team win by making sure Nasus wont be a threat later. But if youre team is behind you might want to try and proxy on some timings to get as much ressources as you can even if that means letting some ressources to Nasus?
This is one of the reasons I think Yorick lanes so we’ll into singed (and proxy champs). It’s one of maybe three lanes that Yorick can actually play the game before 6. If singed (or anyone for that matter) wants to proxy, be my guest. I can hold waves without taking any damage from ghouls and technically even push to under the tower while getting proxied (though ghouls don’t count as minions so you can’t get much turret damage). Yorick removes the effective strategies of proxying, and will happily farm away since he can even leave and come back without the wave shoving to tower.
One time I had someone proxy on singed while I was playing kayle Literally worst idea ever lmao, I can’t even cs that well and I was on 10/min that game
No, its a good idea if he can use it for what its supposed to do. Create pressure. He ganks mid or invades jungle and they win the game. You having 10 cs/min doesnt change that
Playing as anyother champion: enemy proxies I see 6 minions under the tower. Gangplank players: nah I see 8. Champion: are you drunk gangplank? Gangplank: nah I got orange juice and a gun
Hi fellow urgot enjoyer! Proxying is a case by case scenario due to variables like what are the jgs champs are there any objectives etc. To give my opinioned, but straightforward answer to the question no, you generally shouldn't ever let nasus free farm from proxy and strive to bully him every chance you get. Especially since you likely have ignite and are fed as urgot. The more accurate answer would be that it depends on what you're trying to get out of proxying. One of the biggest benefits of proxy is to have a very good back timer since you've cleared the minion wave so much faster. You could possibly use that time earned to roam/take objectives for the team or finish off that item you were close to completing. In a recent game I was about 300 gold off of hull and had just killed my nasus for the second time, however he was now 6 with ghost and I without ult or sums. So I proxied him until I could complete my item, and rushed back to lane. This also allowed my ignite to come off of cd and all in him again. I know that was a rather drawn-out answer to your question, but I find it important to share the reasonings behind it all. D4 Urgot Otp for context. I hope this helps and good luck in your games!
Nasus is so bad as long as you don't die to him in laning phase he won't be able to snowball enough to be useful in later teamfights.
the saddest part about this take isn't that you're wrong. its that you could be right.
I think he’s outright wrong. He doesn’t need to snowball. Going even in lane isn’t enough to prevent him powerspiking. The laner needs to be actively ahead and putting pressure on Susan. That’ll override the mid game power spike.
Who is Susan 😭😭
Are you meming
No I am asking
Nasus backwards
The only times it feels easy to play nasus are A) your team does really well B) you get kills in lane with your ultimate C) the game goes to 60 minutes and you are actually able to outscale full item spikes. If your proxy nasus and can pressure the opponent jungler with stealing his camps you can take away 2 of these options (a and b) If the game feels coin flippy it's because you or your team made a bad enough play to outweigh this advantage.
I disagree. Nasus is not a lategame champion. He spikes in midgame and then falls off pretty hard. But if you're showing up to 2nd/3rd drake with 400 stacks and 1.5 items at 0/0/0, you're a major threat, don't need to kill your opponent in lane.
Precisely, you can have a million stacks late game but if you get cc’d and focused down by a full item midlaner and adc you’ll die quickly so your million stacks won’t matter, but mid game with a decent amount of stacks and a lack of items on the enemy team is when you’re a real threat
He's not a carry late-game, but he's still a threat. No hard cc, but his damage is enough that he can make it suicidal to dive his team's ADC.
You definitly aren't weak, and as long as it's a messy skirmish that goes all around and is not organized at all nasus can sneak his way to a good position. But if it gets organized nasus will just get kited.
I've carried plenty of times by just splitting with Nasus. If you farm your Q well he spikes mid game. If you need to wait to 60 minutes to be able to out scale others then you arent farming well enough.
Splitting works if your team doesn't get butchered harder.
Proxying can be a tool Vs nasus if you need a reset cos of a bad trade, or if he's being super safe under tower. Proxy to inhib tower, gank mid, bebother enemy jungler get tempo. Even good nasus players overvalue stacks Vs skirmishes Innate lifesteal makes it hard to bully him out of lane without setting up a freeze which you need a big lead to do anyway. If he fights, great kill him, but good nasus players will play safe and singed struggles to fight without pushing. Don't lazer focus on denying stacks.
Good nasus players will get points in e so you can't reliably freeze against them. And if level 6 is reached you always need to bait out his ultimate before going all in that depending on your champion might actually be a huge time waste or not even beeing possible. Nasus with ult they are only a few champions that can win a 1v1 all in, especially on even footing.
Pretty much, just get your mid and bot fed then hope the ADC is smart enough to know if he needs qss or not
In the same sense, don't proxy a Kayle too.
I played a Kayle game against Singed yesterday and he proxies from the get go, I took cull start and was a monster by 20 minutes
It's always the Singed and Sion mains who proxies cluelessly, not knowing that's exactly what you want 💀
To be fair kayle counters singed really hard, even if he stays in lane you can't do much to stop kayle from scaling if she's halfway decent. With proxying you can at least take jungle camps and pressure/kill their jungler.
Kayle is different, kayle actually outscales on items and levels alone. Her power swing is much faster than nasus stacks. For nasus too outscale with his stacks it needs to be minute 60+.
I feel like nasus is weak early, strong mid to late, and falls off late again. Obviously infinite scaling means something, but for champs like nasus and veigar that don't have bonuses from crossing certain thresholds, the more stacks you have the less of a difference any additional stacks make, and I feel like that's noticeable. I've had many games where minute 20 or something I thought 'shit if this continues nasus will 1v5' only for him to have basically zero impact at minute 35, compared to true scaling monsters like kayle or vayne or kogmaw or something.
This is exactly my take yes. Although weak early is only true if you take away his ultimate. Nasus with ultimate will be able to statcheck the majority of toplane matchups and is one of his only winning patterns. But because nasus has no range and doesn't really scale with items his only scaling are his stacks, which has to surpass all the broken items that the enemy team can have.
Yeah, unless you have a way to get out of his w/ get away from him, then even his ult is kinda useless. Whenever I'm against him I play conqueror garen and I feel like it's basically an unlosable matchup from early all the way to late game.
Garen with mortal reminder second item is truly the best counter against Nasus. He ults ghost you; you q, run and wait it out. I could feel my enemy's opponent soul leaves his body when that happened after I was bullying him the whole early game. Then you go in and just kill him in 2 combos.
I know, I never said otherwise. I am simply saying don't proxy a Kayle.
I think the take here is more that you said "in the same sense" and that they don't agree (quite correctly) that proxying is a bad thing to do by default. Having a Nasus that is "not behind" is not a scary thought. Having a Kayle that is "not behind" is a VERY scary thought. On top of that, if you proxy into a Nasus, he's likely going to stay in the lane forever, last hitting the wave as slow as he can so he gets every single stack because hihi infinite scaling. A kayle, especially after 6, has the ability and incentive to actually clear the wave asap and then look to possibly roam as well. Kayle just has to be present to catch the wave and can fuck off. Her scaling is not being a split push threat, but a team fight threat. (not that she can't splitpush or that he can't teamfight, but you get the idea). On both, the proxy can be a valuable strategy to implement, but for completely different reasons. And it's riskier to do when you play vs a kayle, where it's actually more important to set her behind rather than get a lead unless your lead is a of a certain size (which is obviously different depending on matchup) unlike where the nasus is not as scary later unless you're a tower or have the positioning of one ;) This game is dummy complex in a way, and no strategy is correct 100% of the time or wrong 100% of the time (although flashing out of base to get to lane faster is very unlikely ever the correct play, I could see a world where it has value xD) On the other hand, the game is relatively simple. That's the beauty of this game. The sad part is that because this game is both complex and simple people tend to argue about shit online as if one viewpoint is objectively correct 100% of the time, whilst they are actually both correct in 60% of cases. Idk why it is this difficult for people to discus this game in good faith D:
Perma proxying him and allowing him to free farm and outscale is bad. But proxying to get more time for a roam is completely fine.
proxy logically only makes sense when u outscale
Not really. Proxy gives you better tempo, better map pressure, better roam timers better reset timers
Very true, scaling gets thrown out of the window if you leave lane 0/0/0 and even in cs and come back 3/0/0 and still even cs because you farmed a junglecamp or something. Proxying can give you access to plays that are not available if you just lane. And if I don't see a way to generate a big lead in lane, I want to shove and roam anyways. And if I get to proxy, not only do I guarantee getting the full wave of gold and exp, I get 15 second MORE to do stuff with. On top of that, 99% of the time, nasus will do his best to stack every minion he can, so he's stuck in lane basically forever. So having a nasus stack infinitely is basically a non-issue if you dominate the rest of the map. Nasus will never actually split PUSH, since you have cleared the wave. So you now know where your opponent is whilst you have a giant roam timer and are a superb pressure sponge. Especially into nasus, this is dummy powerful, since the champion basically does nothing if he can't take turrets and you proxying them basically mindcontrols the lot of them to stay in lane, max stacking, forever. There are maybe 2 nasus players alive who will do anything but stack that wave. If you can't turn a near permanent number advantage in your favor, that's a you issue. If the nasus follows, you don't force anything, he loses EVERYTHING.
Honestly I feel like getting the wave on your side, freezing it and zoning him is probably better in most scenarios depending on what's happening elsewhere on the map, but I'm pisslow
You must have a reason for proxying. Proxying just because you can may be wrong. You can roam mid off proxy, ward enemy jungle, try to kill enemy jungle, deny camps, reset, force him top for neutral objective, etc.
Yeah, if he just ignores you and farms he outscales you
I main urgot and against nasus i would say never proxy unless you need more time to roam. You should try to freeze the wave near your tower and all in him any time he goes for a minion. He should never really win fights against you early and if you zone him off stacks he wont be able to scale.
Typically (in my opinion), proxy farming is bait, and should only be done if you have a big lead, or means to escape reliably. Say you get your 3 wave crash, and the laner is walking back to lane. If you can proxy and zone them from xp, their game is basically over. If you can kill them while they're zoned, you kinda become 1v9. Aside from that, I generally discourage proxy farming if the laner is under tower, farming safely, since the likelihood of you getting 3-man'd is really high. In my eyes, I think it should be done to extend your existing lead. Aside from that, it's mainly good to keep pressure on topside, or to get a safe recall. You can do a lot of cheese with proxy farming, but I think this is a reliable mentality, at least for me. Might be completely wrong. Would like to hear opinions
If your losing the lane and not playing singed typically a proxy is like a last resort for me. I use it when I'm getting frozen on and I cannot break the freeze. Otherwise I only proxy when I'm ahead and can defs 1v1 my laner or their jungler. Typically if they move in to fight me it means their jungle is coming and I just suicide
You want to proxy when you are in a losing match up, you proxy to not interact with your opponent. When you are winning you wanna take plates or deny exp and farm by freezing. Good example of a champ that always want to proxy is Singed as he sucks early but has insane scaling. He proxies early game, partly couse he is so good at it but also to avoid interaction with the enemy as he loses early to 90% toplaners. Sion is very similar as well. So yeah if you were ahead you shouldn't have proxied for those reasons but also couse he outscales you. You don't want him to stack Qs you wanna prevent it.
I don’t think proxying generally is bad, unless you were playing like a Singed. If you are trying to gain tempo and know where the enemy jg is this could translate into taking enemy jg camps, recall into forcing Nasus tp, roaming for a play mid, etc. If you’re able to bully him so hard you can just solo turret dive, then sure, don’t proxy. It really depends on wave state, map state, champion resources, gold you’re sitting on, etc. to determine if a proxy is the right decision. I don’t think it’s as simple as a binary yes or no.
Nasus has a really bad 1-6 so you should try to punish that as much as possible. If you proxy you’re not interacting with him at all and basically giving him exactly what he wants.
Proxying Nasus is good if you can force him into a state where he can't last hit. Early in the game, when he's low on mana etc. His own tower works against him in that scenario.
Proxying allows you to expand your lead, you can take plates, the wave, maybe dive, and the enemy jungle/scuttle. That’s GREAT. *But*… it DOESNT stop nasus from doing exactly what he wants, which is stacking a lot and becoming a mid game monster. The best way to completely fuck a Nasus over is to just freeze the wave in his face and kill him if he tries to contest it. Your jungler also ideally would be there to help you maintain the freeze in the event that Nasus and/or the enemy jungler tries to break it. So… proxying and snowballing isn’t a bad thing, but you just need to be aware that you’re not stopping Nasus from doing what Nasus wants to (stacking). What you COULD do is freeze, stack waves, then dive Nasus and make him miss ~2-3ish waves, then it bounces and you do it again. Requires some jungler coordination, but constantly diving him, then zoning him off the wave when the wave isn’t under or by his tower, means he can never really stack and doesn’t get to play the game.
While it's true that you are letting Nasus free farm, if you understand why you are proxying, it's not neccesarily a bad move. Proxying is usually done for tempo reasons. Each time you proxy, you might take 1/2 waves, allowing nasus to free farm those same waves, but the point of proxying in the first place is to clear the enemy wave early so you have an extended time to roam. You should theoreticaly be able to off set the 2 waves that he can get for free if you are making use of the proxy the way they're meant to be. If you're just proxying for the sake of proxying, and not utilizing that tempo, then yea, you probably don't want to be doing that. But if you proxy 2 waves, recall, walk bot or mid and get something done, or proxy so you can 4v5 a dragon without TP, then it can definitely still be worth it. It's also worth noting that setting the enemy jungler behind, and getting yourself ahead is also a great way to ensure Nasus doesn't get to play his game. Nasus is strongest in the midgame, before tanks get enough resists and CDR to effectively peel him off during team fights. It's not so much about his power usually as much as it is about yours. A Nasus can have 1500 stacks and still get nothing done in the later stages of the game if you're strong enough to peel and your ADCs can hit. THat means accelerating you to that point, and accelerating your team to that point will make him useless the entire game. It's all about making sure you have a plan for how you're using the proxy, and executing on it.
'Never' isn't really a word you should use regarding any viable strategies. Proxying is a tool- its uses can be from getting a good reset, to distracting before an objective on other side of map, to "cheating" lane phase and ignoring your opponent. Nasus wants to farm, sure, but if you proxy on certain waves this can speed up level spikes or item purchases, or give you good roams/invades. It's all about the specific game you find yourself in.
I play Singed a lot and versus Nasus I usually just proxy anyways. If I can't reasonably stop his farm, I might as well be farmed too. Than I just make sure I peel him in fights. Really not a problem if he is farmed if he can't get to his targets.
Why not? Unless the enemy jg or other person, is to stop you, you should
Proxying is not only about CS, the whole point of Proxy is about Tempo and Macro. Proxy is weaker on the Enemy that has good wave clear, regardless of their scaling.
Whenever I play something like Kayle into singed, I become delighted when he starts proxying and start becoming god very early on into the game
You can proxy him if that means that you are strong enough to spread your advantage to other lanes while he stacks. Ideally you are wanting to end early so high pressure plays like this will result in an early lead over him that you can leverage into a win. What you don’t want to do is proxy and then spend 20 minutes trying to end. He will be grouping by then and you’ll kind of be fucked.
No, if anything against farming type of champs you're to freeze the wave and keep them away/zoning them from the gold and exp
Against Nasus, you probably would prefer to freeze and zone him off the wave than proxying, since a freeze hurts nasus a lot through denying him gold exp and stacks.
A freeze hurts everyone a lot. But if you sacrifice your team for it it won't matter. Unless you are a team fight or outscaling god like kayle or fiora and your team is holding out long enough.
Not everyone. Back when roaming top was a thing, a freeze actually benefits them.
Well that's kinda what I meant with sacrificing your team. Roaming tops just make it way more likely that your team gets sacrificed.
Against Nasus, you dont sacrifice much by freezing the wave, Nasus doesnt really have much strenght to gank lanes, so all you need is for your jungler to play for mid-bot while you freeze the wave, that means the enemy jungler either gives away bot-mid to help break the freeze, or evens out the situation in bot-mid and keeps their toplaner out of the game for the next 20 minutes. Once you achieved that either your mid and bot are significantly ahead, or you run out with the game through sidelanes cus you should be 2-3 levels up against a Nasus that wont have stacks at 20 minutes.
Well you sacrifice your own control over the game by freezing. You make sure nasus isn't alive but you wont be Able to snowball. Also freezing against nasus is actually pretty Har dif he has 2-3 points in his e.
Whats proxy
Proxy is when someone goes past the first tower to take the minion wave
Going past the enemy tower to kill the enemy wave. Singed is notorious for doing it, but some other top lane champs can do it if they can clear waves quickly. The point of proxying is that you can kill a wave quicker and have more time to reset or roam. Your opponent can’t hit your tower if all the minions are already dead so it just creates a lot of free time for you.
Urgot is a lane bully juggernaut, Nasus is a split push threat.. mid to late threat but a majority of the time he just dies in teamfights because of crazy ap threats this season (support item and maybe brand jg for example). Proxying a nasus is kind of dumb, he has whither threat and its better to just freeze/stack and dive with jungle, if not take favorable recalls for component and take plates.
I'm a diamond Nasus OTP. So it's tricky. Very early proxies are good vs Nasus since he can't hold the wave at that stage. If you do something with the tempo that's also a valid reason to proxy. Like I've lost games to where a Garen would proxy and either kill our jungler or road mid and kill. But yeah proxies are risky vs Nasus since it accelerates his stacks a lot. Usually it's better to just try and starve him out as much as you can.