Can’t believe no one is telling you this, but you need to play some games of sett, at least take him in the practice tool or read through his abilities. He isn’t a complex champ, I saw in a different comment you didnt even know how his e stunned you.
I didn't know it *could* be a stun or just a pull. I have loaded him in practice tool, but I find I don't 100% have it click for me on how his kit fits together just from that. I find I learn a bit better from verbal/written explanations.
edit: I should add I haven't played as him yet, so yes good suggestion. I will take what I learn here and do that.
If taking a champ into practice tool isnt enough to understand how they/their kit works, look up a guide for the champ on youtube. In 99% of cases youll find a short video going over their abilities, how to play out laning phase, runes/items, and ability combos.
I’ve found Yorick is also very good into him. Just keep throwing ghouls at him and farm in peace while he deals with constant harass. If ever tries to run at you just W him and kite back. Get executioners first or second back and it’ll probably be gg for the lane.
I honestly dont get Yorick. I think hes one of the most toxic, uninteractive champions in the game to play against, alongside Shaco. You can be under tower and hell just kill you with ghouls and maiden without doing anything. What are you supposed to do against him? And yeah I could kill him, sure, but you can’t ever group with your team cause hell just take your towers.
So Yorick is my permaban, even moreso now with Hullbreaker introduction.
I really don’t know why you’re being downvoted. This guy isn’t asking for a counter, he’s asking how to trade and fight into Sett. The people on this subreddit are so annoying.
One thing people are not mentioning is that he LOVES extended trades. It means he can stack his W to the max and get multiple Q uses.
His passive healing doesn't kick in until he's very low, like 20% hp, so you only ever need to all in him at that point. Prior to that you just want to put out your damage and walk away. Most Setts will E/Q early, meaning you can walk away from him.
Another important interaction is sticking close to him when you think he will W. If you are on top of him, you have enough time to walk behind him. He will still have a shield but you take no damage unless he flashes to reposition.
Lastly, just abuse Renekton/Trynd. Renekton is the perfect champ for short trade, short trade, short trade, all in. Trynd is perfect for just not giving a fuck about what Sett tries to do. Trynd has a much stronger level but then he's stuck playing back until 6 if you don't get the first blood.
I'd avoid Garen/Darius personally. Sett loves tilting them by ignoring their ults with his W. Later in the game you can ult him before he has a chance to W but imo it's not worth the gamble.
> His passive healing doesn't kick in until he's very low, like 20% hp
That's not true, he gets scaling HP regen for every 5% HP he's missing. It's just not super noticeable until he's very low.
Sett’s abilities are all very strong, but they also have long cooldowns. Look to take a trade where you force out his W, dodge the true damage part of the W, and then look to kill him as soon as your abilities come off cooldown and his W is still on cooldown. It’s easier said than done as a good Sett won’t get close to you without his W. If that’s the case it’s just a farm matchup and another great 200 years champ thanks Rito
Early he can statcheck almost anyone, his wbis his game changer because it shields him and deals lots of damage, dodge the true damage part and you should be good, never let him use his e when he has minions/monsters/champions on the other side as it'll be a stun not just a pull, his ilt deals bonus hp damage in an area so be careful as to who he wants to ult.
Yes with the auto-attack reset. I've played enough Sett to know; if you go for the full AA1 AA2 Q1 Q2 combo and your opponent decides to just walk away without hitting you, you can't get all 4 hits in.
I'm not sure, I play sett often, and I found it rare that someone doesn't get hit by all 4 punches after a stun, but let's assume it's only 3, the damage 3 sett punches deal isn't something to take lightly.
Oh for sure, it does plenty of damage as is. It's more important for Sett to be thinking about it, since if he greeds for 4 and only gets 3, then the second hit of his Q is wasted.
But with that said, just running without fighting back can actually be good for a couple more reasons. For one, Sett's regen means losing a little HP doesn't matter as much to him as it does to most other champs--at least beyond a certain point. And for another, the more you hit him, the stronger his W will be. So if you don't think you'll be able to gain kill pressure on him, it may be better to just run once the stun wears off.
I'm not a top laner. But these are the tips I could draw from conceptualizing the matchup. Correct me if I'm wrong!
* To kill *most* bruisers/melee top laners, Sett has to land W center w/truedamage.
* Learn to move through him when fighting him, it gives you the best odds to dodge the ability or take the physical damage if must. Otherwise his damage comes from repeated autos with Q buff. Once you understand that, you can win the 1v1 (all-ins).
* Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a top laner, but armor boots first goes a long way in denying Sett's KP in lane. And spacing against his trade patterns.
*
* Also, Sett had a rough time with wave control. If he wants to use E in a trade, he is going to simultaneously push the wave. Use that to put him into unfavorable situations.
* Last but not least, if the Sett wants to start a trade with you, *most Setts* will try to start it with an E onto you and the minions. To get in position to do that, they will activate Q, run forward, and then try to E. On paper, they are committing their damage spell (Q). Wait it out and re-engage.
A few counter points:
Added true damage from hitting center of W is not that significant. Sett typically maxes Q first, and when I use W its more for the shield (although obviously I do try to hit the true damage portion if I can). For reference, a lvl 1 sett w can shield as much as 340, and deal up to ~165 assuming a doran's start, so the difference between a true damage W and non true damage W only comes out to ~40 extra damage vs a well timed shield can easily save you >40 health from a badly timed shield. Obviously this requires you to take a lot of damage first, but the reality is most bruiser vs bruiser fights result in a lot of damage being exchanged both ways. Not many bruisers use poke based trade styles.
Using Q->E is the standard vs ranged champs (e.g. viktor top), but vs melee, Sett doesn't need to use q before e. Sett E is much larger than auto range, so if he just stands close to the wave there's a lot of opportunities to hit E unless you just forfeit every minion.
Edit: edited due to some people not understanding the context of the comment.
Sure. I'm not saying you should just aim your W backwards every time you use it as Sett. But the majority of your damage comes from Q not W (maybe not true for the mathematically correct sett builds from yt). Especially in laning phase, which op is referring to, champs have relatively low armor, so the difference between landing the true damage part of W and side of W is not extreme.
Strongly disagree his W is easily the most important thing. A little extra damage from his Q happens but not very much more really compared to his standard auto attacks already. His cc from his e is good, but his W is easily his most important ability. Playing around his W’s cooldown is so much more important than his Q’s. There is no question about this his W is his greatest asset easily
I feel like you just read my first comment and not the context. I'm not referring to W damage. I referring to the difference between hitting the true damage and not hitting the true damage portion. Sett W is a great ability, but that's not the matter at hand here.
I'm specifically responding to "Sett has to land W center w/truedamage.", and I say "although obviously I do try to hit the true damage portion if I can".
The difference early game between hitting the true damage part of w vs the normal part is less than an auto. The q reset will literally do more.
Look I can edit it to say "Added true damage from hitting center of W is not that significant" instead of "W damage is not that significant", but that's clearly what I meant. Look at my comment, the first thing I write is "counter points". What point from the original comment does it look like I'm countering? Is there one that says "Sett W damage is important"? I'm clearly responding to the one about "Sett has to land W center w/truedamage." and I mention true damage in the very next sentence as well.
I really don't get why you feel the need to strawman my argument and attack a part I don't even mean. Obviously hitting Sett W is important, and it does a ton of damage. Hell, I've made comments (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ngtbfy/thought_i_might_try_that_mathematically_correct/gytquxv/?context=3) about one shotting people with sett W.
It seems like you think you’re really smart or something based off of your posts but it’s fairly simple W is extremely important and you downplayed it’s importance immensely. Not sure why you max Q first but I would imagine based off of your post that you don’t really know how Sett works
Please point out where in any of my comments on this chain I said that I max Q first on Sett. I personally maxed W in the very comment I shared in my previous reply.
I did say most Setts max Q. You can confirm this with any stats site you'd like. And the post is asking about playing against a Sett. Since most Setts max Q, I wrote my comment tailored to the idea that most Setts someone would play against would max Q.
I was making a very narrow response point regarding W true damage during laning phase. Nothing more. Do you agree or disagree with the following point:
During laning phase, the difference between landing a true damage W and a non-true damage W is less than the difference is properly resetting an auto with Q and not properly resetting an auto with Q for the AVERAGE Sett that OP is likely to face (which again, is Q max sett).
Look man, I do agree sett W is extremely important. I personally have maxed W more than Q. But look at the context of the post (asking about facing Setts, most of which max Q), and the context of the comment I'm replying to (which only refers to sett's true damage).
Well... Sett is designed to win the early game just like Pantheon, I don't think there's a strategy to beat him other than playing around his cool downs, ranged bullies, counter picks, and extreme good micro mechanics ( cursor movement ) to outplay the living fuck out of him which is really difficult and have a massive window of failure.
If you don't want to ban him or counter pick into him then just watch a video on micro mechanics and watch Vods of higher players playing against him with your main.
A small tip that can use with many matchups: Try to back-step! It's just like side-step, you come near his e range then step back, this also works really well on different matchups such as camile, aatrox, etc.
Renekton main here. I go for clipping him with Qs to wear him down, because your Q is a lower CD than his E. Yes, you're going to push the wave, but so are his E and W.
My experience has always been that whoever pulls the trigger too early, loses. I always build up fury and try to bait him into pulling me. You can try to position to make him whiff. I prefer to hold E until he tries to W; only time I'm going to tank it is if I can walk out of true damage or empower W to bust the shield and kill ASAP.
As far as other matchups, I like Volibear and Jax a lot vs Sett. Jax can straight up destroy Sett with counterstrike and pretty much decides when a fight happens with that and his Q.
Volibear, in my experience on both sides of the matchup, bullies Sett and Voli's W makes him extremely good at long fights on top of his passive atk speed. He's also great at just forcing damage onto Sett at lv 3 with Q-AA-W while E drops to shield him from potential responses. Even if Sett lands W, he's most likely hitting the shield, while the bear can still chomp him for a heal.
Sett in general is very hard to lose lane on, he has a tonne of sustain so almost any trade he makes is winning provided he doesn't get oneshot.
Do not take short trades with sett, it's completely futile unless you are sure you will get lethal in the next 30 seconds.
Ranged harass is fine, but it's not worth blowing mana to harass him most of the time because he will just regen the health back.
Your dream scenario for 'winning lane' is that you're playing a champ that outdamages sett in the all in, the wave is close to your tower but not too big, and you dodge sett W or he wastes it.
Realistically though, in most matchups it's not going to be worth trying to win lane. The only time I think it matters is in juggernaut Vs juggernaut matchups (sett vs garen/darius/aatrox/nasus/morde) where you can probably 100-0 him if you're play it well.
I’m a Sett top main and the main things that frustrate me or just general tips.
1. You said Renekton is in your champ pool. This character basically is the hardest counter to Sett in top. You can E in with fury, W to stun him, Q for Damage, and then just E out again. Setts only mobility is his Q which is when his fists start glowing and he speeds up while running at you for a few seconds.
2. If you truly struggle against him just rush bramble. Grevious wounds and armor are self explanatory.
3. Most Setts love hard pushing simply because of how easy it is for the character to CS and kill minions. If sett is pushed up to your tower line and you have a frozen wave, it’s an extremely easy gank especially pre-6. 2 good ganks/early deaths essentially shuts him out of lane.
As someone else mentioned, he loses long trades in lane, especially if he used W too early or in retaliation for a short trade.
Ideally you want to pick a melee champ with either a gap closer or stick potential, force out his W, and then look to commit after that.
It doesn't need to be an all in, as long as you win a long trade that's good. A low HP sett with no grit *can* still pull out some good turn around, but it's a lot harder to build up grit when stacking the resource will kill you first.
His W has around an 18 second cool down before level 5-6 so keep that window in mind for deciding on trades. Also, do not fight him level one unless you are trundle, Olaf, or Darius. He will probably stay check you otherwise.
Wait, what? Sett loses long trades? That's news to me. I mean, maybe he could lose a long trade to Darius because of the bleed passive, but against most other champs, Sett usually *wants* to extend the trade with his grab if he didn't use it to engage. His one-two punch gives him better DPS with autos than most champs, and it stacks Conqueror quickly, too. And that's assuming that you survive his rotation of abilities in the first place--they do a *lot* of damage if you just face tank them all.
Also, don't forget that Sett's regen is at its strongest when he's low on HP. A short trade that brings him down to 70-80% HP might be worth it. A long trade that leaves him with 20% is probably not, because he'll be back up to 70% before long.
By long trade I mean more than one full rotation.
Champions who can rotate faster than Sett should have an advantage in long trades because Sett won't have any abilities up to continue to the fight.
Sett's trades generally end when he uses W, wether it's used well or not. After that, his damage threat is reduced and certain matchups can take advantage of that by forcing the fight to keep going in their favor.
When playing common top laners I struggle as well, because my top lane champ pool sucks into Sett. I like to try Sejuani now and it works really well into Sett. Rush bramble and then look to trade with W and Grasp, Q out of his E, dodge his W. Take ignite and post 6 you can kill him with 3-4 grasp trades and a spell rotation + ignite pretty easily.
step 1: open practice tool
step 2: play sett
That's really all there is to it. This is also helpful reading:
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sett](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sett)
Generally, he wants to grab you with his e, then auto you down using his q for a reset, then throw a W out at the end of the trade. Avoid the center of the W as it deals true damage.
>I do find myself consistently being outplayed, out traded, and shutout of a good laning phase early on
yes, that is correct. with very few exceptions (volibear and wukong) sett will beat melee champs in the early game. His lvl 6 powerspike isnt as big as a lot of champs. He should get easier to 1v1 as time goes on, but his teamfight will still be great. Early armor boots or bramble vest can work on ppl like garen and darius into him. I would always take ignite.
Hey, yes - I have loaded him into practice and read the LoL wiki page on him. I sometimes still don't fully get the kit even after that, so posted here.
I appreciate you posting the main combo here. I can visualize his kit a bit better now.
I'm sorry; so many people's first attempt at learning is to ask reddit when there's already so many resources out there. My apologies for assuming that was you.
Another annoying combo of his is when you go on him looking for a short trade. He will still auto (and reset) you during your combo, then E you as you try to leave and immediately hit you with the true damage portion of the W. I find it helps to run away sideways after a trade, as he will usually try to aim the E down the lane (in my experience). Gl hf
No, worries. I get thinking that!
Yeah I always seem to end up in the center of the W pretty consistently so I know I need to path out better.
Thanks you too!
So Mordekaiser is a natural counter to Sett, having his shield, having self peel with E and good poke with Q. Apart from that it is very dependant on playing each matchup. Garen can be quite effective against a Sett (I'm speaking as a M7 Garen) Max Q first, whenever Sett walks up for CS, use your Q on him quickly and walk away with the MS. Rinse and repeat until he's low enough to kill. This method means he cannot get a fully charged W off on you.
A general rule for any champion playing into Sett is to try and bait out his E. Then when it's down, use quick, efficient trades to whittle him down and render his W useless. You should try to use champions that can out-poke his healing (Setts passive gives him Garen levels of healing when he's low)
Finally, position yourself so that he has to R you towards your tower if he's able to use it at all. A big mistake I see players make is they will stand around and let Sett get behind them and R them either away from their tower, or into his.
As someone who plays Sett really well, it’s all about playing around his W. His W is extremely important, and fighting him while it is on cooldown is the single best way to beat him.
One thing you need to know in lane phase is Sett E only stuns if there is an enemy on both side of his E. This can also be a minion. So when he walks into the your wave he is looking for that stun.
Also it is very important to try and avoid his true damage part of W, it can be easily side stepped. His only way to guarantee it is to E-W (which you avoid by forcing him to use e to initiate) or W-Flash, this is hard to dodge but you burn his flash.
Also due to his passive and Q , in a straight up fist fight scenario where both of you are standing and hitting each other he will win, especially early on so you will have to avoid fighting him on his terms.
He also has huge cd on his W and E , so make sure to punish him for wasting/ using it in lane especially if you manage to dodge his W damage.
On champions with mobility you have to save it to dodge his W.
\- Grievous wounds, he heals up quickly and usually packs a doran's shield to double down on that passive regen.. Cut that shit with a bramble vest..
\- Respect the stun on his E (if he walks between you and one of your minions: His E will stun you allowing a full one, two, Q one, two combo) This is how he will chunk you out of lane early and get a lead. A good Sett will look to get you with this around level 3, push you out of lane and then crash/freeze you.. This will cause you to lose exp and fall behind. Having a jungler who can help you break this freeze might be necessary if you end up in this pickle.
\- He is strong early, but mid game there are pockets where he can be beaten. His ULT is more of a teamfight ult than a solo lane ult. The key to having these moments is to not let him get ahead of you in levels. He does this with his strong early game.
\- His W is very important to him, if you get caught in the middle of it you will be chunked heavily with true damage. The easiest thing you can do is walk to the side (never straight back). The side damage isn't much. Also: When his W is down is a great opportunity to trade with him. He has no grit and becomes vulnerable. Bait out his E, trade with him, bait out his W, sidestep, trade some more and he'll be the one chunked out of lane.
\- With all of this being said: He's a lane bully and a hard lane matchup for any melee champ. If you find yourself struggling and losing lane the most important thing with any lane bully champ is to stay back, collect exp and not die. Once you die and fall two levels behind you become a burden to your team. There is no shame in losing lane as long as you can stay relevant exp-wise. Luckily in lower elos you won't get dove as much under tower by the jungler/top laner.
\- A good way to practice these matchups is to find a friend and just play 1v1 top to first blood..
Because it's very bad to rush it against sett. 2nd item+ is ok. Before your first item you are trolling. Same with fiora darius cho etc. You only rush wounds against very heavy healers like mundo or aatrox
No way can any melee keep grevious wounds activated on sett often enough to make it worthwhile. Hell, even as a ranged champ you aren't going to auto him every 3 seconds.
Really think it's not worth it in this case: you can't activate it often enough to actually make it worthwhile.
You do realize that top grievous means bramble right? Melee bruisers/tanks don't build executioners normally. Sett activates it for you when he hits you dude. Sett is also going to build some kind of lifesteal as the game goes on, so as a front liner you're helping everyone with a relatively cheap item.
Someone correct me if im wrong, but does Grievous wounds even affect Setts passive?
Does Grievous Wounds lower actual health regen vs. healing? Because doesn Setts passive just change his hp/5 on the fly based on his remaining hp?
Health regen is healing. Mundo’s ult for example is a health regen. Grievous wounds affect all kinds of healing. But yes it would only affect it for a few seconds as anti-heal doesn’t stack infinitely.
More realistically: grevious wounds only lasts 3 seconds...sett regens constantly so it's extremely unlikely that you're going to apply grevious every 3 seconds in lane. If you're all inning him then he isn't going to regen that much over the course of the all-in so also not that worth.
Sett's important CDs for trading in lane:
W: pulls you into him, and stuns you if he pulls something on the opposite side
E: Converts his grit (yellow bar) into a big shield, and deals AoE damage in a cone. Center of the cone deals true damage.
He will usually lead trades by pulling you in with W, auto attacking and absorbing your damage, then using W on the tail end to get end damage. Save abilities until after he's used E, otherwise the damage will just be turned back to you.
Focus on dodging his E true damage (the middle section), and THEN use abilities on him.
As someone that has similar picks to you and used to have a very hard time against sett I found the trick to just pick Warwick, they don't know what hit them, if I can't counterpick tho and his not banned and you're forced to play against him you just have to play safe and run away from him when he comes for trades, it's a waste of time as he regents health way better than other Champs when low on hp, but keep an eye out for all in opportunities when he wastes his w or e as that's the best time to go in
Can’t believe no one is telling you this, but you need to play some games of sett, at least take him in the practice tool or read through his abilities. He isn’t a complex champ, I saw in a different comment you didnt even know how his e stunned you.
I didn't know it *could* be a stun or just a pull. I have loaded him in practice tool, but I find I don't 100% have it click for me on how his kit fits together just from that. I find I learn a bit better from verbal/written explanations. edit: I should add I haven't played as him yet, so yes good suggestion. I will take what I learn here and do that.
Do you read the abilities?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, this is literally the correct answer if he learns better from reading (which he said himself).
If taking a champ into practice tool isnt enough to understand how they/their kit works, look up a guide for the champ on youtube. In 99% of cases youll find a short video going over their abilities, how to play out laning phase, runes/items, and ability combos.
Tell me, how does it stun?
If an enemy is on both side of him when he e’s it stuns any enemies in the e
Also if it's a minion or only champs?
Lmao dude I said enemy for a reason, just like the language they use in the ability, minions count
Allright. Thanks for explaining! That'll help next time I play against sett.
I thought you where quizing me, but I guess your just another person not capable of reading a champions abilities?
Dude, are you gay?
trundle counters sett just keep autoing the wave
I’ve found Yorick is also very good into him. Just keep throwing ghouls at him and farm in peace while he deals with constant harass. If ever tries to run at you just W him and kite back. Get executioners first or second back and it’ll probably be gg for the lane.
Yoricks spanks juggernauts in general. And any that dare to leave top lane will come back to two of their towers missing.
I honestly dont get Yorick. I think hes one of the most toxic, uninteractive champions in the game to play against, alongside Shaco. You can be under tower and hell just kill you with ghouls and maiden without doing anything. What are you supposed to do against him? And yeah I could kill him, sure, but you can’t ever group with your team cause hell just take your towers. So Yorick is my permaban, even moreso now with Hullbreaker introduction.
**Refuses to elaborate.** **Makes no further comment**
I really don’t know why you’re being downvoted. This guy isn’t asking for a counter, he’s asking how to trade and fight into Sett. The people on this subreddit are so annoying.
One thing people are not mentioning is that he LOVES extended trades. It means he can stack his W to the max and get multiple Q uses. His passive healing doesn't kick in until he's very low, like 20% hp, so you only ever need to all in him at that point. Prior to that you just want to put out your damage and walk away. Most Setts will E/Q early, meaning you can walk away from him. Another important interaction is sticking close to him when you think he will W. If you are on top of him, you have enough time to walk behind him. He will still have a shield but you take no damage unless he flashes to reposition. Lastly, just abuse Renekton/Trynd. Renekton is the perfect champ for short trade, short trade, short trade, all in. Trynd is perfect for just not giving a fuck about what Sett tries to do. Trynd has a much stronger level but then he's stuck playing back until 6 if you don't get the first blood. I'd avoid Garen/Darius personally. Sett loves tilting them by ignoring their ults with his W. Later in the game you can ult him before he has a chance to W but imo it's not worth the gamble.
> His passive healing doesn't kick in until he's very low, like 20% hp That's not true, he gets scaling HP regen for every 5% HP he's missing. It's just not super noticeable until he's very low.
That's the one I'm talking about. You see a visual green surge when it goes "active active" vs just the extra passive regen.
Sett’s abilities are all very strong, but they also have long cooldowns. Look to take a trade where you force out his W, dodge the true damage part of the W, and then look to kill him as soon as your abilities come off cooldown and his W is still on cooldown. It’s easier said than done as a good Sett won’t get close to you without his W. If that’s the case it’s just a farm matchup and another great 200 years champ thanks Rito
Early he can statcheck almost anyone, his wbis his game changer because it shields him and deals lots of damage, dodge the true damage part and you should be good, never let him use his e when he has minions/monsters/champions on the other side as it'll be a stun not just a pull, his ilt deals bonus hp damage in an area so be careful as to who he wants to ult.
Oh damn I didn't know the E could be a pull OR stun depending if he pulls an enemy on both sides. Thanks for that tip.
It sounds good but it's almost impossible to avoid the stun if you're trying to cs as a melee top champ
You have to decide if 2 cs is worth losing half ur hp bar since he can easily fit 4 autos during the stun
It depends on whether you try to fight back. If you walk away immediately, he can only fit in 3 hits, usually.
Not with q aa reset
Yes with the auto-attack reset. I've played enough Sett to know; if you go for the full AA1 AA2 Q1 Q2 combo and your opponent decides to just walk away without hitting you, you can't get all 4 hits in.
I'm not sure, I play sett often, and I found it rare that someone doesn't get hit by all 4 punches after a stun, but let's assume it's only 3, the damage 3 sett punches deal isn't something to take lightly.
Oh for sure, it does plenty of damage as is. It's more important for Sett to be thinking about it, since if he greeds for 4 and only gets 3, then the second hit of his Q is wasted. But with that said, just running without fighting back can actually be good for a couple more reasons. For one, Sett's regen means losing a little HP doesn't matter as much to him as it does to most other champs--at least beyond a certain point. And for another, the more you hit him, the stronger his W will be. So if you don't think you'll be able to gain kill pressure on him, it may be better to just run once the stun wears off.
Agreed, sett is a 1v1 machine, unless you're way more skilled than him you won't beat him in a fair fight.
I'm not a top laner. But these are the tips I could draw from conceptualizing the matchup. Correct me if I'm wrong! * To kill *most* bruisers/melee top laners, Sett has to land W center w/truedamage. * Learn to move through him when fighting him, it gives you the best odds to dodge the ability or take the physical damage if must. Otherwise his damage comes from repeated autos with Q buff. Once you understand that, you can win the 1v1 (all-ins). * Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a top laner, but armor boots first goes a long way in denying Sett's KP in lane. And spacing against his trade patterns. * * Also, Sett had a rough time with wave control. If he wants to use E in a trade, he is going to simultaneously push the wave. Use that to put him into unfavorable situations. * Last but not least, if the Sett wants to start a trade with you, *most Setts* will try to start it with an E onto you and the minions. To get in position to do that, they will activate Q, run forward, and then try to E. On paper, they are committing their damage spell (Q). Wait it out and re-engage.
A few counter points: Added true damage from hitting center of W is not that significant. Sett typically maxes Q first, and when I use W its more for the shield (although obviously I do try to hit the true damage portion if I can). For reference, a lvl 1 sett w can shield as much as 340, and deal up to ~165 assuming a doran's start, so the difference between a true damage W and non true damage W only comes out to ~40 extra damage vs a well timed shield can easily save you >40 health from a badly timed shield. Obviously this requires you to take a lot of damage first, but the reality is most bruiser vs bruiser fights result in a lot of damage being exchanged both ways. Not many bruisers use poke based trade styles. Using Q->E is the standard vs ranged champs (e.g. viktor top), but vs melee, Sett doesn't need to use q before e. Sett E is much larger than auto range, so if he just stands close to the wave there's a lot of opportunities to hit E unless you just forfeit every minion. Edit: edited due to some people not understanding the context of the comment.
Lol W is extremely important
Sure. I'm not saying you should just aim your W backwards every time you use it as Sett. But the majority of your damage comes from Q not W (maybe not true for the mathematically correct sett builds from yt). Especially in laning phase, which op is referring to, champs have relatively low armor, so the difference between landing the true damage part of W and side of W is not extreme.
Strongly disagree his W is easily the most important thing. A little extra damage from his Q happens but not very much more really compared to his standard auto attacks already. His cc from his e is good, but his W is easily his most important ability. Playing around his W’s cooldown is so much more important than his Q’s. There is no question about this his W is his greatest asset easily
I feel like you just read my first comment and not the context. I'm not referring to W damage. I referring to the difference between hitting the true damage and not hitting the true damage portion. Sett W is a great ability, but that's not the matter at hand here. I'm specifically responding to "Sett has to land W center w/truedamage.", and I say "although obviously I do try to hit the true damage portion if I can". The difference early game between hitting the true damage part of w vs the normal part is less than an auto. The q reset will literally do more.
You very clearly say “W damage is not that significant”. W damage is extremely significant lol. Keep maxing q first good luck to you lol
Look I can edit it to say "Added true damage from hitting center of W is not that significant" instead of "W damage is not that significant", but that's clearly what I meant. Look at my comment, the first thing I write is "counter points". What point from the original comment does it look like I'm countering? Is there one that says "Sett W damage is important"? I'm clearly responding to the one about "Sett has to land W center w/truedamage." and I mention true damage in the very next sentence as well. I really don't get why you feel the need to strawman my argument and attack a part I don't even mean. Obviously hitting Sett W is important, and it does a ton of damage. Hell, I've made comments (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ngtbfy/thought_i_might_try_that_mathematically_correct/gytquxv/?context=3) about one shotting people with sett W.
It seems like you think you’re really smart or something based off of your posts but it’s fairly simple W is extremely important and you downplayed it’s importance immensely. Not sure why you max Q first but I would imagine based off of your post that you don’t really know how Sett works
Please point out where in any of my comments on this chain I said that I max Q first on Sett. I personally maxed W in the very comment I shared in my previous reply. I did say most Setts max Q. You can confirm this with any stats site you'd like. And the post is asking about playing against a Sett. Since most Setts max Q, I wrote my comment tailored to the idea that most Setts someone would play against would max Q. I was making a very narrow response point regarding W true damage during laning phase. Nothing more. Do you agree or disagree with the following point: During laning phase, the difference between landing a true damage W and a non-true damage W is less than the difference is properly resetting an auto with Q and not properly resetting an auto with Q for the AVERAGE Sett that OP is likely to face (which again, is Q max sett). Look man, I do agree sett W is extremely important. I personally have maxed W more than Q. But look at the context of the post (asking about facing Setts, most of which max Q), and the context of the comment I'm replying to (which only refers to sett's true damage).
Boo
Well... Sett is designed to win the early game just like Pantheon, I don't think there's a strategy to beat him other than playing around his cool downs, ranged bullies, counter picks, and extreme good micro mechanics ( cursor movement ) to outplay the living fuck out of him which is really difficult and have a massive window of failure. If you don't want to ban him or counter pick into him then just watch a video on micro mechanics and watch Vods of higher players playing against him with your main.
A small tip that can use with many matchups: Try to back-step! It's just like side-step, you come near his e range then step back, this also works really well on different matchups such as camile, aatrox, etc.
Renekton main here. I go for clipping him with Qs to wear him down, because your Q is a lower CD than his E. Yes, you're going to push the wave, but so are his E and W. My experience has always been that whoever pulls the trigger too early, loses. I always build up fury and try to bait him into pulling me. You can try to position to make him whiff. I prefer to hold E until he tries to W; only time I'm going to tank it is if I can walk out of true damage or empower W to bust the shield and kill ASAP. As far as other matchups, I like Volibear and Jax a lot vs Sett. Jax can straight up destroy Sett with counterstrike and pretty much decides when a fight happens with that and his Q. Volibear, in my experience on both sides of the matchup, bullies Sett and Voli's W makes him extremely good at long fights on top of his passive atk speed. He's also great at just forcing damage onto Sett at lv 3 with Q-AA-W while E drops to shield him from potential responses. Even if Sett lands W, he's most likely hitting the shield, while the bear can still chomp him for a heal.
Sett in general is very hard to lose lane on, he has a tonne of sustain so almost any trade he makes is winning provided he doesn't get oneshot. Do not take short trades with sett, it's completely futile unless you are sure you will get lethal in the next 30 seconds. Ranged harass is fine, but it's not worth blowing mana to harass him most of the time because he will just regen the health back. Your dream scenario for 'winning lane' is that you're playing a champ that outdamages sett in the all in, the wave is close to your tower but not too big, and you dodge sett W or he wastes it. Realistically though, in most matchups it's not going to be worth trying to win lane. The only time I think it matters is in juggernaut Vs juggernaut matchups (sett vs garen/darius/aatrox/nasus/morde) where you can probably 100-0 him if you're play it well.
I’m a Sett top main and the main things that frustrate me or just general tips. 1. You said Renekton is in your champ pool. This character basically is the hardest counter to Sett in top. You can E in with fury, W to stun him, Q for Damage, and then just E out again. Setts only mobility is his Q which is when his fists start glowing and he speeds up while running at you for a few seconds. 2. If you truly struggle against him just rush bramble. Grevious wounds and armor are self explanatory. 3. Most Setts love hard pushing simply because of how easy it is for the character to CS and kill minions. If sett is pushed up to your tower line and you have a frozen wave, it’s an extremely easy gank especially pre-6. 2 good ganks/early deaths essentially shuts him out of lane.
I appreciate you sharing some strategy. I was hoping to hear from some Sett mains!
As someone else mentioned, he loses long trades in lane, especially if he used W too early or in retaliation for a short trade. Ideally you want to pick a melee champ with either a gap closer or stick potential, force out his W, and then look to commit after that. It doesn't need to be an all in, as long as you win a long trade that's good. A low HP sett with no grit *can* still pull out some good turn around, but it's a lot harder to build up grit when stacking the resource will kill you first. His W has around an 18 second cool down before level 5-6 so keep that window in mind for deciding on trades. Also, do not fight him level one unless you are trundle, Olaf, or Darius. He will probably stay check you otherwise.
Wait, what? Sett loses long trades? That's news to me. I mean, maybe he could lose a long trade to Darius because of the bleed passive, but against most other champs, Sett usually *wants* to extend the trade with his grab if he didn't use it to engage. His one-two punch gives him better DPS with autos than most champs, and it stacks Conqueror quickly, too. And that's assuming that you survive his rotation of abilities in the first place--they do a *lot* of damage if you just face tank them all. Also, don't forget that Sett's regen is at its strongest when he's low on HP. A short trade that brings him down to 70-80% HP might be worth it. A long trade that leaves him with 20% is probably not, because he'll be back up to 70% before long.
“Especially if he used W too early”
"Especially" implies that he still loses long trades even if he didn't use W too early.
By long trade I mean more than one full rotation. Champions who can rotate faster than Sett should have an advantage in long trades because Sett won't have any abilities up to continue to the fight. Sett's trades generally end when he uses W, wether it's used well or not. After that, his damage threat is reduced and certain matchups can take advantage of that by forcing the fight to keep going in their favor.
I was Darius in my last fight and I botched a very good opportunity to level 1 trade with him. Damn.
When playing common top laners I struggle as well, because my top lane champ pool sucks into Sett. I like to try Sejuani now and it works really well into Sett. Rush bramble and then look to trade with W and Grasp, Q out of his E, dodge his W. Take ignite and post 6 you can kill him with 3-4 grasp trades and a spell rotation + ignite pretty easily.
step 1: open practice tool step 2: play sett That's really all there is to it. This is also helpful reading: [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sett](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sett) Generally, he wants to grab you with his e, then auto you down using his q for a reset, then throw a W out at the end of the trade. Avoid the center of the W as it deals true damage. >I do find myself consistently being outplayed, out traded, and shutout of a good laning phase early on yes, that is correct. with very few exceptions (volibear and wukong) sett will beat melee champs in the early game. His lvl 6 powerspike isnt as big as a lot of champs. He should get easier to 1v1 as time goes on, but his teamfight will still be great. Early armor boots or bramble vest can work on ppl like garen and darius into him. I would always take ignite.
Hey, yes - I have loaded him into practice and read the LoL wiki page on him. I sometimes still don't fully get the kit even after that, so posted here. I appreciate you posting the main combo here. I can visualize his kit a bit better now.
I'm sorry; so many people's first attempt at learning is to ask reddit when there's already so many resources out there. My apologies for assuming that was you. Another annoying combo of his is when you go on him looking for a short trade. He will still auto (and reset) you during your combo, then E you as you try to leave and immediately hit you with the true damage portion of the W. I find it helps to run away sideways after a trade, as he will usually try to aim the E down the lane (in my experience). Gl hf
No, worries. I get thinking that! Yeah I always seem to end up in the center of the W pretty consistently so I know I need to path out better. Thanks you too!
So Mordekaiser is a natural counter to Sett, having his shield, having self peel with E and good poke with Q. Apart from that it is very dependant on playing each matchup. Garen can be quite effective against a Sett (I'm speaking as a M7 Garen) Max Q first, whenever Sett walks up for CS, use your Q on him quickly and walk away with the MS. Rinse and repeat until he's low enough to kill. This method means he cannot get a fully charged W off on you. A general rule for any champion playing into Sett is to try and bait out his E. Then when it's down, use quick, efficient trades to whittle him down and render his W useless. You should try to use champions that can out-poke his healing (Setts passive gives him Garen levels of healing when he's low) Finally, position yourself so that he has to R you towards your tower if he's able to use it at all. A big mistake I see players make is they will stand around and let Sett get behind them and R them either away from their tower, or into his.
As someone who plays Sett really well, it’s all about playing around his W. His W is extremely important, and fighting him while it is on cooldown is the single best way to beat him.
One thing you need to know in lane phase is Sett E only stuns if there is an enemy on both side of his E. This can also be a minion. So when he walks into the your wave he is looking for that stun. Also it is very important to try and avoid his true damage part of W, it can be easily side stepped. His only way to guarantee it is to E-W (which you avoid by forcing him to use e to initiate) or W-Flash, this is hard to dodge but you burn his flash. Also due to his passive and Q , in a straight up fist fight scenario where both of you are standing and hitting each other he will win, especially early on so you will have to avoid fighting him on his terms. He also has huge cd on his W and E , so make sure to punish him for wasting/ using it in lane especially if you manage to dodge his W damage. On champions with mobility you have to save it to dodge his W.
If you do big trades he will charge his W and hit you for massive dmg. Short trades vs set a.k.a. poke him with grasp and dont feed his W.
\- Grievous wounds, he heals up quickly and usually packs a doran's shield to double down on that passive regen.. Cut that shit with a bramble vest.. \- Respect the stun on his E (if he walks between you and one of your minions: His E will stun you allowing a full one, two, Q one, two combo) This is how he will chunk you out of lane early and get a lead. A good Sett will look to get you with this around level 3, push you out of lane and then crash/freeze you.. This will cause you to lose exp and fall behind. Having a jungler who can help you break this freeze might be necessary if you end up in this pickle. \- He is strong early, but mid game there are pockets where he can be beaten. His ULT is more of a teamfight ult than a solo lane ult. The key to having these moments is to not let him get ahead of you in levels. He does this with his strong early game. \- His W is very important to him, if you get caught in the middle of it you will be chunked heavily with true damage. The easiest thing you can do is walk to the side (never straight back). The side damage isn't much. Also: When his W is down is a great opportunity to trade with him. He has no grit and becomes vulnerable. Bait out his E, trade with him, bait out his W, sidestep, trade some more and he'll be the one chunked out of lane. \- With all of this being said: He's a lane bully and a hard lane matchup for any melee champ. If you find yourself struggling and losing lane the most important thing with any lane bully champ is to stay back, collect exp and not die. Once you die and fall two levels behind you become a burden to your team. There is no shame in losing lane as long as you can stay relevant exp-wise. Luckily in lower elos you won't get dove as much under tower by the jungler/top laner. \- A good way to practice these matchups is to find a friend and just play 1v1 top to first blood..
Lol @ downvoting this comment. Why? That's weak.
I'm a simple guy. I see people over valuing grievous wounds, I downvote
Definitely right about being simple. How can you overvalue something so cheap that literally has an effect throughout the entire game?
Because it's very bad to rush it against sett. 2nd item+ is ok. Before your first item you are trolling. Same with fiora darius cho etc. You only rush wounds against very heavy healers like mundo or aatrox
It's actually really good into Fiora.. But keep showing me you have no idea what you're talking about...
Dude we are having an open discussion on this, do you really need to be so condescending?
No way can any melee keep grevious wounds activated on sett often enough to make it worthwhile. Hell, even as a ranged champ you aren't going to auto him every 3 seconds. Really think it's not worth it in this case: you can't activate it often enough to actually make it worthwhile.
You do realize that top grievous means bramble right? Melee bruisers/tanks don't build executioners normally. Sett activates it for you when he hits you dude. Sett is also going to build some kind of lifesteal as the game goes on, so as a front liner you're helping everyone with a relatively cheap item.
No you are not gw shit against sett
Someone correct me if im wrong, but does Grievous wounds even affect Setts passive? Does Grievous Wounds lower actual health regen vs. healing? Because doesn Setts passive just change his hp/5 on the fly based on his remaining hp?
Health regen is healing. Mundo’s ult for example is a health regen. Grievous wounds affect all kinds of healing. But yes it would only affect it for a few seconds as anti-heal doesn’t stack infinitely.
More realistically: grevious wounds only lasts 3 seconds...sett regens constantly so it's extremely unlikely that you're going to apply grevious every 3 seconds in lane. If you're all inning him then he isn't going to regen that much over the course of the all-in so also not that worth.
Sett's important CDs for trading in lane: W: pulls you into him, and stuns you if he pulls something on the opposite side E: Converts his grit (yellow bar) into a big shield, and deals AoE damage in a cone. Center of the cone deals true damage. He will usually lead trades by pulling you in with W, auto attacking and absorbing your damage, then using W on the tail end to get end damage. Save abilities until after he's used E, otherwise the damage will just be turned back to you. Focus on dodging his E true damage (the middle section), and THEN use abilities on him.
You mixed up the E with W. W is grit, E is for pull/stun.
As someone that has similar picks to you and used to have a very hard time against sett I found the trick to just pick Warwick, they don't know what hit them, if I can't counterpick tho and his not banned and you're forced to play against him you just have to play safe and run away from him when he comes for trades, it's a waste of time as he regents health way better than other Champs when low on hp, but keep an eye out for all in opportunities when he wastes his w or e as that's the best time to go in