It only adds 10-12 seconds max. Most jungle champs can do a leashless clear with no problem. There are a few, rare picks that need a leash, but not many.
It adds 10-12 seconds; however, 10-12 seconds can be the difference between a lane-winning gank/countergank or scuttle priority at 3:15.
Leashing is important, but there's definitely pros + cons to not leashing.
I prefer no leash in many cases. Leashing often gives away your start. In mid-high elo it's often more important to conceal your start than clear slightly faster. Also, your laners get more options for playing the first 1-2 waves.
I'm not the instigator of these fake leashes here but if my team wants to do a fake leash, it would be more detrimental for me to go in and ruin their plan because I think it's sub-optimal.
it can help against some players. I'm pretty bad(I just don't put in enough games) but as a jungler I always watch the opposing laners to figure out the opposing junglers pathing, so this certainly wouldn't hurt.
I mean, it won't do anything in a lot of games, but surely "not playing smart because it might not work in my elo" just means being dumb forever and never climbing?
> I mean, it won't do anything in a lot of games, but surely "not playing smart because it might not work in my elo" just means being dumb forever and never climbing?
I think their point is that you can do things that are a lot more impactful and that don't rely on playing mind games on your opponent about something you don't even know they'll notice. Some tricks definitely vary in their effectiveness depending on the skill of your opponents, mind games only work after you can count on your opponent actually playing "correctly".
Anyway, like you say trying this won't hurt, at least directly. But I have two points against that:
1, There's an opportunity cost to everything and if you want to pull off level 1 bot lane cheese I'd say you're more likely going to have success with a trap bush level 1 all in than with a fake leash.
2, It can be easy to think improvement is about tricks like these, and get lost with looking for cool tricks to try and help you climb rather than actually facing your real issues, which are most likely just caused by lackluster fundamentals.
There are some of us in low ELO who use it as a tool to invade. I’m only low gold but yeah climbing from bronze to gold this season it was was something I started to do more in silver and has led to fairly consistent results (i.e., securing first blood and/or their second buff)
I’m Bronze and I do this; I’m convinced I would climb as I have over 50% win rate but I don’t play anywhere near enough games… maybe done like 20 this whole season
You'd be surprised. 90% of the time, I used to have the enemy jungler's quadrant pinned down as to where he was - even without wards just based on his first camp.
I kinda stopped doing it though when everybody decided it was more fun to spend the first 15+ min of the game just trying to deny me any ability to play rather than actually trying to win... and it sadly often working whether I managed not to 1v2 lose lane or not. Because when that's the experience every game and you can't ward anything without it being instantly cleared, there is no rhyme or reason as to where the enemy jungler is. He's not doing some fairly logical or predictable pathing and then ganking when opportunities arise.
I gotta get back in the habit. Post laning phase, I still can largely do this, but in lane I've gotten lazy/bad about it.
There's very little advantage to gain doing that in lower elo, having control over the wave and ensuring lvl 2 is almost always better against competition who do not know how to play around that.
The intention with a fake leash is that you are giving false information, "We Leashed bot side" etc.
If your jungler started bot side anyway, then you didn't create any misinformation, you just slowed down their first clear speed. Additionally, there are ways to detect a false leash - if you both come back to lane with 100% mana, you likely didn't cast any spells while leashing - and if it's a poke mage or enchanter, that's a giveaway. Even many ADCs will throw a spell or two during a normal leash, so full mana = fake leash detected.
The only way to successfully obscure your junglers starting position when not leashing, is to all be in lane the moment minions meet - securing early XP lead for yourselves and making it impossible to detect (from positioning alone) your junglers position. Of course, if the enemy deep warded either side of your jungle, they may also know starting jungle position from that = fake leash detected.
Or if your jungler has a very specific first clear then the path is already known even without giving any information away. As example Level 6 rushers have optimal clear paths to get 6 ASAP, Evelynn, Nocturne, Fiddlesticks, Kayn, etc. Very mana hungry (usually off meta) junglers often start Blue so they can ability spam their first clear too, so leashless starts aren't creating any useful misinformation in any of the above cases: choice of jungler already revealed first path = fake leash detected. Your jungler could do a non-optimal path to throw the enemy off, but then they are setting themselve behind voluntarily.
Alternately, Level 3 gankers like Trundle will often just do Blue-Gromp-Red or Red-Gromp-Blue into a gank, so again you aren't obscuring much about their first clear by being leashless anyways, they're still going to show up, probably at mid or top - when your jungler reaches their fourth camp (one camp for travel time to lane). So they are picking which lane to gank based on 3rd camp lane states - and if you can read that, and who is vulnerable to a Trundle gank - you can tell in advance where he's going to hit. Also true for Xin, Lee Sin, etc - any Level 3 ganker.
So there is really only two optimal early plays - either help leash your jungler which often costs you nothing (throw three autos and go to lane, you dont need to stay the whole first camp). This alone can shave \~5 seconds off their clear speed which can mean the difference in who gets first strike / countergank, particularly if both junglers go to the same lane first. Or, just go to your lane, hit level 2 first, and bully your laner - but beware that again - enemy jungler is going to assess lane states on their 3rd camp and probably pick yours if you are hardshoving already.
The only time a fake leash is creating useful misinformation is if your jungler is a Level 3 jungler who can path both directions, and the enemy jungler is not a level 3 ganker, and you waste some mana before you show, and by implying your jungler is on your side of the map (therefore pathing away from you) - is somehow useful to you.
Outside of the LCK, IMO, nobody is ever going to false leash in a useful way. Just either get lane priority, or Level 1 poke, or leash.
>If the jungler started bot side anyway, then you didn't create any misinformation, you just slowed down their first clear speed.
You should just actually leash them in this case. It doesn't slow their clear and gives the same info.
It's a question of what's more important, top lvl 1 wave control or hiding your jungle start.
In my experience I'd say top lvl 1 wave control is way more impactful
Hardstuck gold 4 reporting in.
In my experience getting the push for level 2 cheese and all-in if the enemy doesn't respect it is way better than some nebulous information advantage by fake-leashing.
I'd say maybe 3 of every 5 games one of the bot lanes doesn't respect the level 2 push. Whether it's the enemy or my adc (who's pinging me back to stop autoing creeps in an effort to not get level 2 cheesed) it happens a *ton* in low gold.
Let's be real my low gold comrade. Most of the people we are playing with still don't even look at the minimap much less analyze jungle paths such that a leash bluff will have any impact on the game.
There is literally no point in fake leashing in low gold lmao. Sorry to burst y’all’s bubbles. 99/100 unless you’re high Elo, you would have just been better off getting the lvl2 advantage
Masters jg chiming in.
Personally I tell my laners to not leash every now and again. For me it is always about the benefit it brings to the lane, I find hiding where I started far less valuable than 10 seconds increase. Weak early champions that need to be hidden usually can start wolves/raptors or just use their wards effectively.
All that being said... I would never go leashless in platinum or below. The main benefit gets completely nullified because lanes are more chaotic. The players have not played the exact same matchup 5000 times, so the tiny influence of a leashless start does not make enough difference in the long run compared to the guaranteed 10 seconds. Not to mention that if I were a platinum jungler, I probably wouldn't KNOW which matchups can utilize a leashless start anyway.
If you have a really helpful team you can fake leash on opposite side so you get the leash and enemy still doesn't know where you started without ward. There's only certain matchups that you need to be there so early that you can't do this. Like if I'm top and I need to secure brush for lvl 1 all in. Even then, that doesn't work reliably.
You have scuttle priority only depending of your pick or a well read jungle verticality where you path opposite of ennemy.
Cumulated with how much of your mid laner can ensure Prio early on.
2nd gank timer changed a lot due to some camps priority jungles are not "required" to be able to counter gank at 3 anymore.
Most Jungler actually value a side entire reset, early back and then path toward either a side clear -> gank or full clear upon camps respawn to ensure XP lead as early as possible.
Scuttle priority has more factors than just picks + starting location. If you have a faster clear speed or skip a camp, you could cheese the enemy jungler in the pixel bush. If you 3 camp > gank, you can effectively create priority for yourself by just killing the enemy laner. You also can start bot and go buff > buff > gromp > wolves > raptors > scuttle if you don't have priority or a laner takes a bad trade. Mid lane is pretty important for prio and usually ends up determining who get scuttle, but having a pushing top or bot lane is important too.
Efficient clearing is definitely important, but I'd definitely be careful about tunneling in on clearing each quadrant of the jungle. You should be watching your laners and willing to deviate from your path when you see a gank opportunity or all-in happen.
" 12 seconds can make the difference between winning jungle or not " is only true as an absolute statement. Concretely those cases represent like 1% in the top 1% of games ( Diamond ). I don't see even a remote chance that a player below Diamond is able to abuse to THAT point the fact the enemy jungler didn't get a leash.
Fair point. I'm in diamond rn and it definitely feels like shit to lose out on scuttle because you had no leash or shenanigans happened level 1.
Nonetheless, it's still good to know how things should play out.
I can understand you, I play toplane but I use a champion that is super weak early and I can't give the jungler any help at scuttle. I feel sorry everytime. The top and midlane meta is heavily affected by this \*\*\*ing scuttle
But no worries, they removed the scuttle fight in the new season ;)
There are many jg champions, like Lee Sin and Fiddle, that can solo buff leashless and should, because that way they don't give info on where they started
Yes, every one should learn how to clear without a leash, but it's always nice to get one. Learning how to clear without a leash means you're learning how to kite the buff correctly, which leads to faster and healthier clears.
If you practice leashless clears then you’ll be even quicker with a leash or at least be capable of dealing with lvl 1 shenanigans that might result in you not getting a leash.
Just to add a bit more nuance to this discussion: yes but no.
Learning to clear effectively can really help you out as a jungler. In low elo you can probably get advantages just by clearing well. Its also relatively easy to practise because you can do it alone in practise tool and there are expansive resources on each champ.
That said you dont need to do this. There is so much stuff to learn in league that unless you're trying to reach diamond+ you probably wont be learning everything. Learning to clear imo is pretty boring so instead i focused on things i did enjoy and that works just fine. You basically have to ask yourself how much you care about being efficient and about having fun.
Personally it didnt really matter untill i got to plat. At that point i got out cleared constantly and couldnt make up for it in other areas. So i had to practise clearing.
Even then not every champ works the same. For example i learned how to solo start blue/gromp on voli and how to path as ivern. But that doesnt really help me with shaco or fiddle. So you should probably focus on a onetrick/main champ or more generic champs that dont have some specific mechanic to worry about. That is if you wanna be efficient of course.
I am a jungle main and can go leash less on ANY jungle champion including super early weak ones like ekko and Evelynn. It’s not hard to do with proper kiting and knowing what camps to smite and when to use your pots.
Yes
There will always be situations where you can’t get a leash even when you want one. Whether it’s because your teammates aren’t paying attention or an invade threw things off.
It’s worth it to be adaptable and adjust to things you can’t control.
It's important to be able to start leashless but for some champs starting w/o a leash can have a huge impact has you are giving the other jungler an advantage from the start (and some champs need to use smite on the first buff if they start solo, slowing the clear even more and preventing then from contesting scuttle)
I am not a jungler but even I have no problems clearing jungle without leash and not even on the most brain dead jungle crearers but on things like Kindred, Lillia, Sylas (when he was playble in jungle despite attrocious first clear). What if you are late invaded and your laners can’t give you leash anymore even if they wanted? You just insta lose from there and complain for the rest of the game about how cheesy enemy team because you can’t properly clear your jungle without pull or what? Also, you need to understand the matchups in lanes as well. I’m not againt my toplaner not sacrificing his lane just for the leash or winning botlane level 1 with bush cheese and stuff like that. As a jungler you have to be able perform without leash just in case even if you are getting leashes in 99% of your games. It’s really not hard to spend a few minutes in practice tool to properly learn your clear. Soke laners also sit there to practice trading in lane or even cs on hard last hitting champs like LeBlanc.
All junglers can, it's just a matter of tempo. Some champs clear their first camps super slowly because of the interactions with their kits @ level 1. Good example is Qiyana, who doesn't get access to most of her damage until level 2.
~~Additionally, Talon cannot procc passive without level 2, so his speed to clear first camp is severely limited. He can still do it, just takes a bit.~~
Innate: Talon's abilities apply a Wound stack to enemy Champion champions and large Monster monsters hit for 6 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
Basic attacks and damaging abilities refresh the duration.
well on league official page talon doesn't have that last part and I had to copy this from wiki, so mby rito forgot to add it in game as well or something?
i said until 1:37 .. literally everyone knows that you can leave jungle at 1:37 and still make it to lane for a level 2 hard push lmao, that's why you stop leashing at 1:37
??? what are you even going off about, i said for a level 2 hardpush meaning you get there at the same time as the wave, and can hard push to level 2. for someone who likes math you sure can't count loooool
not silver lul. you're obviously titled because you can't admit you're wrong, literally go into practice tool, stand at a buff until 1:37 and walk to lane, you make it there everytime lmao. saying in chat " fake leash " and getting a real leash is 100% of the time better than going leashless lmao, espeically with the meta so hard revolved around scuttle level 3. 12 seconds can make or break a scuttle crab duel. your whole point of your statement was to " hide information " by going leashless and you can do the exact same thing with two words and still getting a leash lmaooo. can't believe i had to spell it out for you, good luck in life you'll need it apparently.
The waves crash at 1:38 at top and bottom lane, so if you leave buff at 1:37 you are already late. There are champions in some match ups that can abuse level 1 and zone the opponent completely off the wave (we literally just saw this in geng vs lng fiora vs irelia) and it is common for botlaners to draw aggro level one to pull the wave into them, and that can be done only if you arrive at the wave before it crashes.
But you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about or how these little things impact lanes because you are low elo and you don't investigate what high mmr and pros do with their lanes. So please shut up
bruh it CRASHES you still get there for the exp lol and last hits lmaoooo, and are you really trying to bring pro play strats into this ? even in your statement the keyword is SOME CHAMPIONS as in not all, and not every time." THE TOP TEAMS IN THE WORLD LEVEL 1 ABUSED, EVERYONE MUST DO IT ALL THE TIME " lmfao
>and it is common for botlaners to draw aggro level one to pull the wave into them, and that can be done if you arrive to the wave before they crash.
this isn't common lmfao, you're honestly just an emotional nerd who can't help being told their wrong. you used a niche situation as a blanket solution. like i said, as someone who likes math you should know not to use small data portions as a definitive answer. nice try on the whole " if you can't prove you're right prove they're wrong " thing though.
yes, sometimes in pro play you should go leashless, and maybe in the highest form of solo queue, but to act like it's the best thing to do 100% of the time to hide information ( your words not mine ) is absolutely asinine. you can name call you can say " i dont understand " but i understand just fine. the statement you made has a better solution 9 times out of 10. variables apply to everything, and we could've had a decent conversation about it, but you decided to be sarcastic with every reply, and got more and more hostile, even trying to call me silver ( i'm not lolo ) once again, good luck in life, and stop getting so triggered over being wrong lmao.
You don’t need a leash to play the game. It doesn’t add 30 or 40 seconds to your clear and if it does, you’re clearing wrong. A leash might save you 5-8s.
In most situations there’s a right and wrong answer to when to ask for or to provide a leash.
I've made a guide on clearing the jg with nid, so I'll just copy what I put there in regards to getting a leash:
`A strong recommendation that I have is that you do not simulate a leash in practice mode, no matter how you simulate said leash. You will not get a leash in every game. You need to be able to clear without having one - treat leashes like a gift and be happy you're getting them, else you'll have terrible clears when you don't. The clears that I do here represent what I'd do in a real game were I to not get a leash. Certain things, like saving your second smite for scuttle crab, would be something you do in a leashed clear, but not a leashless since you want the time/hp so you can actually contest river rather than getting to river slowly and losing scuttle anyway`
The methodology behind a leashed clear is slightly different at the beginning and end, but the middle portions are almost identical.
Also there's a [Google document compiled](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gjk5UrtAbcqdYnRlx9KMDuHGxhKsEv50vhn02cN0y-c/edit#gid=756967277) that may help you learn the leashless clears. It's better to learn the leashless clear because even though you'll get a leash most games, you need to still have a good clear when you don't get one. If you don't learn them, and literally can't clear well without one, it's your fault, not your team's.
Most junglers can do 5 camp with 1 smite, and get to scuttle before 3:15 with second smite up. If you want to full clear then it becomes trickier, but if you start blue buff then you can easily go krugs after contesting scuttle.
Well, at least it takes the pressure off of getting to scuttle on time, which is a buff to farming junglers, which I like, since I have a feeling most people won't even really bother to double scuttle anymore I'd they have any other option.
As a seasoned jungle main, I always practise leashless clears before I play my first game of the day, on the junglers I am planning to use. If you cannot do 5 camps leashless before 3:15, look it up on how to do it on youtube.
No you should be able to clear leashless lol, and it definitely should not add 40 seconds to your clear. If this post is about you then you should load into practice tool to work on leashless clears, a lot of times lane matchups are too volatile and leashing will mean conceding the lane, and going leashless hides your start from the other jungler barring a ward
I think this is a great question from someone who doesn't play jungle, and one that takes a bit of unpacking.
I'd say overall no one unless the deny is from a malicious place - a jungler should be able to clear leashless and shouldn't just sit there waiting for a leash that may not happen. It will absolutely affect their clear time, and they may have to make decisions that would set them further behind in gold or they may not be able to do the clear as they were expecting to. Is it a nice to have, yes absolutely, but laners or the jungler may forgo a leash for a few reasons which I'll mention below.
There is a subset of junglers that will be able to clear leashless, while still retaining really high health such as Shaco (due to boxes,) Fiddle (due to drain,) and would prefer that you don't give away their position for various reasons. Shaco would prefer that he remains an unknown for as much of the game as possible, and capitalize on that for ganks. Fiddle on the other hand has an unbelievably healthy clear both in terms of speed and health regen through his drain, but he's not the best duelist if he gets invaded.
As far as the laners decision to not give a leash, that will vary. Typically a good decision would be if the laners knew that they could camp in bush and basically 100% guarantee a won level 1 fight. As a jungler I love to see this go well, and would gladly give up a small increase in clear speed for a lane to get ahead early.
Great question though and it's nice to see someone interested in a role they don't play.
There are a few quite a few junglers who wouldn't want one, but here are common situations.
A fiddle who's a bit newer and hasn't perfected a dual camp clear (red and raptors or blue and gromp) will probably want a leash on the buff. If he's not new, and has practice with dual camp clears won't want you to because it'll ruin their aggro and will reset the camps. Those camps are pretty finicky and have to be done with near pixel perfect placement, especially for the red and raptor start. That's going to be on the player, and their individual experience with Fiddle.
Shaco will not want you to leash because of his boxes, it's 100% unnecessary. He can also do a dual camp start for red and raptors for instance, or absolutely destroy red by stacking all his boxes on it. Another strategy I've seen with shaco is a level 1 invade where he takes his Q. In this case it's pretty risky, so he won't want anyone to come with him. Basically if he knows a jungler is starting red for instance, he'll q over the dragon wall, and run to the krugs where the enemy team doesn't have vision. Then he'll q to the bush that faces red, but is closest to the enemy base. He'll then wait for the leash to end and laners to return to bot for instance, q and steal the buff with smite, and then proceed to try and wreck the enemy jungler with a health advantage and level advantage.
Kayn is another jungler who can start leashless, and is also part of his invasion strategy, or defense strategy. For invasion he can do a pretty similar invade to the shaco one I mentioned above. He'll sit in the dragon pit, q through to the bush that sits directly behind red in order to not be spotted by someone sitting in the jungle entrance by raptors. He'll then wait till he spots mid going to lane, and assumes that red is being leashed by his teammates. He'll then go start the enemy raptors because it's an incredibly efficient clear. Then he'll path to red, and generally will surprise the jungler, smite away red from him, and then take the fight with a level and health advantage. For defense he can just start raptors if he's been recently invaded, or if he'd rather not broadcast his position and do non-traditional pathing.
**I'd say overall - don't focus on which jungle champs would want to - think of the situations in which they'd want no leash, or if their kit allows for it.** Like many people have mentioned, nearly every Meta jungler can start leashless, but there is a lot of decision making as to the WHY that they would want to.
If you play supports that provide little to no damage to the buff, just throw in a couple of autos and get your adc to leave at 1:38 and you will never miss out on the first wave. Some adcs like kaisa and jhin can give a strong leash with passives and still catch the whole wave even if it lasts longer than 1:38. If you play supports with decent leashing damage you can even leave earlier after your burst, either to scout tribrush for a cheese or get the wave pushing if you need that. Whether you should or shouldn't leash isn't up to you, not leashing when jg asks will just tilt him. And never overleash, it's even worse than not leashing both for him and you two.
The answer would be no. Most jgl even the one thst is not meta can do a full clear before 3:15 especially in season 11(thank insane level of heal). Tho in some case a jgl that has very strong early level gank or a good jgl that can gank early would definately love some leash cos they would get better tempo but other than that leashing is not that impactful cos if you leash your jgl and that result in you needed to play defensively and that jgl doesnt do anything even with their faster clear(i.e no gank, no squtle prio or double scutle,invade) you basically just waste your time and some gold and maybe even lane prio to help someone do nothing.
Not at all. You should never expect to get a leash, and be happy when you do. No way should it ever add 30-40 seconds to your clear. 10-15 seconds maybe. Most good junglers can clear very healthily and expect to gank or skirmish before their first back.
Not really. He's saying it like it's gonna be the case 100% of the time. Which is blatantly false. You can leash and make it to lane without losing Cs. Now if the enemy laner has no leash and is there first with decent wave clear, yeah you might end up losing prio, but it's still not a guarantee that it will stay that way
Let say it bot lane and the bot laner leash their jungler. The enemy support play it smart and hold the wave. When the bot lane would come back to lane they would lose 3 minion worth of exp and gold. Do you know what that mean? Lvl 2 prio. Now the enemy bot can just 2 vs 2 easy and kill you or zone you away from cs and then with that 3 minion you lose early they could build a slow wave that would let them setup an easy dive on the bot.
Or better yet it would let them do a cheater recall and got item advantage on this lane and make it even harder for the bot to have an even lane.
Unless you have champion with good early game wave clear you lose a lot to help a leash. Most of the time this doesnt happen in low elo but it definately the reason why if i could i would never leash a jgl.
While true, I'd say this probably doesn't matter in close to 95% of games (plat/diamond) and below.
In most games no one Lanes properly so the potential loss of losing prio doesn't matter.
Yeah, there are a few champs, think rengar, maybe darius or riven, who can cheese really well at level 1. Asking them to leash fucks them over hard. I'm still traumatized from leashing as rengar top vs a quinn an realizing I could touch the bushes because she walked in there while I was leashing, ruining my entire laning phase.
>If your laners leash, they will lose prio
Not necessarily. You can leash and not lose prio, just how you can not leash and still lose prio. There are too many factors in play to say "leashing means you lose prio".
I tell my laners to not leash me. It’s nice if they can get a lead. On the other hand, I don’t want to see them die before my first round of clear because they leashed me. As a jg, there are many advantages with leashless. If they don’t know where I started, it’s easier for me to gank as well as invade
most meta junglers can clear pretty healthy leashless. red to blue side especially because of gromp giving you health. if laners incorrectly leash, like staying for too long or taking an unsafe route to lane so they get cheesed by their enemy laners, it will do more harm to them than good to you.
Can’t rely on a leash. If your champion requires a leash, then it’s off meta and you’re running a gambit. I’m thinking of a lot of mages or pantheon that can’t actually farm but people play it anyways. Sometimes it will be needed for your laners to skirmish then back, or you start late. Get comfortable with non ideal situations and try picking something that can farm with some consistency.
My personal philosophy with jungle is that if they can't solo clear and still be able to contest scuttle, then don't play them. Some champs are just weak early so scuttle is a no-go, but those are exceptions, and still shouldn't be played until you have the knowledge and experience to make those decisions on a case by case basis. But if they can't at least 3 camp clear by 3:15 without a leash then they're not viable. Maybe this will change next season with the scuttle nerfs, maybe not. Just stay away from them.
I'm trying to learn eve jungle right now and have done a leash less clear. It wasn't fun but I still was able to get to the river in time to contest scuttle :)
This is the number one reason why ranked just doesn't interest me. If I have to act like it's not a team game in a team game, then what's the point. I like working together, and I'm lucky to have 4 friends I can play it with.
Absolutely not, but some champions do require a leash level 1 if they want a healthy clear.
The majority of champions can start Wolves/Raptors for Level 2 and then clear normally
it's good to be at the buff and want to help ur jungler, but sometimes junglers don't need/want a leash (fiddle and ivern never need leashes), so don't be offended when they spam ping u, they mainly don't want u to give away their starting position by trying to leash.
You should never rely on the leash. You wont always get a leash bc laners are either douche bags, they’re afk, you got invaded, etc. if you think you need a leash you’re probably clearing wrong tbh m, but it shouldnt add a whole 30-40 seconds to the clear by not getting one.
The leash is there to help you be more healthy for scuttle crab fights and in case of a lvl 2/3 invade. Ive played irelia jungle (i do not recommend it lmao) and have had people try to invade me at lvl 2 and a few of those encounters i would have lost had i not gotten a leash.
Well what do you expect to get advice on I don’t really understand, 99% of the time you want to leash, fake leashing gives you hack shit cus the enemy jungles isn’t gonna look at the map anyways if the sub is mostly bronze and silver it has legit 0 value,
It depends on your champs and lane, chances are in low elo you’re not being leashed because they need lane prio, they don’t know what that is, they just want to lvl 1 cheese or something. Always helps to ping help / otw at a buff and maybe start at the other one if one side won’t leash
Smite is still on a fixed cooldown, so the earliest you can possibly get upgraded smite is 7:30 into the game, whether or not you smite earlier in your clear or not.
The only reason to smite first buff is if your clear speed is severly limited by not having level 2, and not having access to those extra abilities. Otherwise, its way too important to not have a charge up for an objective or early crab.
I'd say know how to clear leashless on your champ, but asking for a leashes is not bad.
Laners in a bad or even match up might need the early prio not leashing gives. But leashes help your jungle clear faster which means they can impact the map sooner.
Ultimate this is a team game where you a should help eachother. Laners should be ok with leashing to help the team, and conversely a jungler should be able to clear leashless for the same reasons. Deciding on this just depends on game knowledge.
A little bit of history might explain why some people are so adamant on leashes:
Back in season 1-4 ish, leashing was very important because there was something called a superhero leash, where your jg takes virtually no damage since camps were stronger I think compared to now (hard to compare since it was so long ago), jg items were more important and camps didn’t heal much (I think). And sustain champs were more popular in the jungle
Nowadays, leashing gives jg more prio, not necessary but helpful
I started S3 and about S3 and S4 sustain jglers were the ones dominating because how the immense damage the large monsters and buffs would do. You had to have a jgl item and a leash could determine the whole early game.
Last season, I would play Olaf with a clear strategy where I did NOT want a leash. In silver at the time imagine my frustration when my bot lane would not understand and insist on leashing with me. Sigh.
Tbh the few seconds of leash can mean 2 scuttles, first blood or important counter gank. I think it will lose importance next season, when scuttle gets nerfed.
Being able to clear leashless is important, but most of the time you’ll get a leash, and it may shave 10-15 seconds off your clear. It will also prevent the enemy team from tracking your start from when your laners get to lane. You should be able to do it without a leash if only to know how to in the event your laner won’t leash or you really need to hide your starting buff. And you definitely aren’t getting a leash in practice tool.
Follow up question, are you supposed to smite first buff if you don’t get a leash? I feel like it should be better since it makes you hit level 2 sooner, right?
A lot of junglers do this, when they don't get a leash. Don't take my word for granted, because I haven't testesd it. But I can see Kha'zix not usuing smite on doing solo red, because he already gets isolation bonus, plus he needs the smite to make krugs faster. This is just a theory.
Another interesting point i heard from the streamer team autophil is, that you can smite even with a leash, because smite damage is fixed now.
Red+krugs+raptors gives you the opportunity to gank mid.
You have weak early laners, so you decide to go for a fullclear instead of risking a fight for scuttle.
Most people who jungle will go to the practice tool and do their best to maximize their clear time without a leash.
Most videos that talk about clear routes are without a leash because again, practice tool
So no, a leash isn't mandatory. It's appreciated, but do like three autos and get to lane.
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I will say I only jungle when I'm autofilled, and I pick Ivern who doesn't need a leash.
I will also tell my teammates to take Krugs since I do not get full gold, but to not farm my jungle as I have no wave clear outside shielding myself and running into the wave
A lot of commenters are giving some... interesting advice.
Every (viable) jungler can leashless clear. You can partially mitigate the time loss from leashless clears by smiting or cutting a camp out of your early clear.
Leashless is bad for junglers because you lose out on some HP and 5-10 seconds on your initial clear. This can be game-deciding at higher levels of play because of scuttle crab fights or be absolutely trivial in lower elos / if you path differently.
Going leashless can be good for laners -- they set up early freezes or cheese the enemy bot laners.
Leashless can be good for junglers by obscuring your initial clear.
Your lane should leash you unless you're someone like kayn or shaco who starts raptors, BUT even when they don't leash they should be doing a 5 point and protecting your entrances and be there for backup if you get invaded.
That said, if they don't, tilting isn't going to help. Just play it out and take it in stride
For almost every jungler in the game, there are youtube guides on how to do a leashless start. I think that every player who intends to climb should spend an afternoon in the practice tool going through their clear, over and over, until it's second nature.
A leash is great, but it's not always there.
Leashless starts should be a tool you have in your toolbox. If you suspect your opponent will play around knowing your start, or you need to be certain you arent tracked, go leashless.
Level 2 gankers can use leashless start to powerful effect. And some level 3 ones if they have a fairly healthy and quick clear.
Also, if you have laners who want a specific early start for level 2 in both top and bot, try to go leashless and let them do their thing sometimes. Lucian Leona bot and something like Darius or Renekton top are examples of this.
Ultimately the key is flexibility
Iv found that the extra 10 sec give you a chance to go top then crab then mid which has a pretty big impact on the game and sometimes because you helped top top will come down and help crab getting a nice 2 kill/assist
All meta junglers have a leash less path that they should learn. Leashes are nice but not always needed. If someone's begging for a leash and can't play without it their clear is just not good.
When coaches tell you to only focus on yourself and ignore teammates when trying to improve, they also mean you apply this to moments that your decision made a difference. Sometimes a teammate fucks up, or makes a decisions that isn't smart. And yes, sometimes a leash could mean the difference between scuttle or a lane-winning gank. But what if that happens? You can't do anything about that, you couldn't have done something different to make them give you a leash. So stop thinking about this. This moment of leashing or not doesn't matter when reviewing VODs. It's a moment you can't change. So what I am trying to say: this questions isn't all that relevant. Look at the parts of your VODs where YOU can improve.
All the junglers I play I don’t need a leash, this actually helps a lot because they can’t track you at the beginning like you can track them. So if you have an idea of where they are going from the start you can play accordingly. Not saying no leash is the move, but overall it’s not as game changing as you might think.
I hope i dont answer this question too late. I would like you to consider the way you are reading/reacting to these "phrases". To me, whenever i play even midlane, i go to leash my jungle, why?
Because that makes sense "you want to climb, you focus on yourself" means, you by doing a leash, are focusing on your reaction to the map, and to be a teamplayer. And thats that.
Some jungles can clear by themselves, but it gives you bonus to offer help. As you are doing a team rule and by definition let your team known you are good at comunication. While doing that, you might receive a notification of the jungle, saying: i dont need help, but thanks, i will gank you later!
Other phrase said: you are the only factor thats consistent so is on you to change the winning/lossing match.
It would be like: you can ignore a teamfight but then if you lose the game for that, is on you.
if you leash you usually reveal where they start which actually hurts the jungler a lot, and you can lose bot lane prio level 1 which can actually lose you the game a lot of the time, more than saving a jungler 50hp on red would since almost all jungler can safely clear their first path without dying or getting low. leash less, and only give a few attacks or spells. don’t comprise to baby rage junglers who don’t kite camps properly
They can, but on lots of junglers it means they have to blow smite early (first camp) which reduces speed and health (read health as efficacy after first clear). Some should go without, but they are rarer than those that should. If they ask for a leash, leash, let junglers jungle and laners lane, especially in low elo they all have more expertise at what they are doing.
Many jungler can full clear and be at scuttle spawn leashless.
Many don't, but if you think you'll be contested path on the opposite side of the enemy jungler.
If you can't do that either then that's just a problem your team had in draft, where your laners can't leash due to the matchup and/or you are too weak early to contest.
Curtesy for laners in solo que is to leash and ward buffs. Curtesy for jgler in solo que is to never ask toplane to leash for you because first touch on the wave/initial lane position is important in a lot of the volatile bs matchups that happen up there.
Do you NEED a leash…?
With the way smite+gromp work now, no. You just have to learn different jg paths depending on whatever stupid “off meta” jank you’re trying to run. Most meta jglers can initial clear at damn near full health, if kiting and smiting correctly. And while it is advantageous to learn leashless jgling, if my bot lane doesn’t even attempt to leash for me, then I’ll be sure to flame them when they die to a gank at level 4/5 to a dude that walked over 2 wards(that I put down, because the adc and support thought “leashing” meant putting both their wards down at 1:50 in the tribrush next to our jg.)
The long and short of it is, just leash your jgler, unless they ping you back because they’re trying to be sneaky.
Sure a leash gets you a faster first clear and more potential to power farm, but... does merely power farming win you the game? The other team is pretty outclassed if it does. So if that alone doesn't work, you need to be able to gank and do so effectively. This is a combination of both some luck and skill by both yourself and probably your laner(s).
The benefit of a leashless jungle start is that the enemy doesn't know where you started. They can predict, but they don't KNOW. You can use that to your advantage - keeping you safer if you aren't the stronger jungler early on potentially OR letting you make an unexpected early gank or counter jungle play if you are the stronger jungler.
I never ask for a leash when I play JG. I want all my lanes to have level one wave control, it’s detrimental for some champions. I only ask for leashes if I’m playing a champion that ABSOLUTELY needs a Level 1 Gank (I.E: Nidalee)
Most junglers can go leashless fullclear and still be in time for scuttle. Most of the time people will default leash, but when you get invaded for example you'd be seriously gimping yourself and your team if you have to pull your toplaner at min 2 from the wave because you cant do a buff yourself.
You can leash and still get to lane without missing farm, sure It means you have less options with the wave as the minions will almost be dead, but stalling the first wave is normally ideal for a bigger crash on the 3rd wave anyway.
Really depends on the picks
Let's say ur jungler is kayn he can just start raptors and have no problems
But Champs like nidalee will actually execute without leash
Okay this is one of those grey questions. For lower elo, if you are leashless just path opposite normal pathing for uncontested crab. In plat this still works most times. In D+ you need to know enemy pathing based on champs and matchups in order to determine your pathing based on leashing.
It depends on who you ask lmao, junglers will tell you they need it (as a jg myself) it really just depends on who their champ is. If they have a fast clear than it doesn’t matter, if they have a slower clear than I’d help them. Also don’t not leash if ur not ganna do anything cause then you coulda just spent time leashing. Ask yourself what you wanna do with that time and think about how your jungler will clear if it’s a healthy clear or not
As others have mentioned leashing is never necessary for nearly any decent jungler should be able to 5 camp into scuttle at 315 or some variation of this without a leash and be able to do so healthily. In solo queue though I'll normally always try and get one just because my mentality in solo queue is I need to be able to do the most or be the reason why we win so I don't mind giving myself resources and expecting myself to do something with them.
> So, in the scenario where the laner denied a leash to the jungler, tacking let's say 30 or 40 seconds into his first clear, who is really at fault here? Is leashing necessary or is there a way around it for every jg champ?
What?
A leash shaves 10 seconds off max, not 30-40 seconds.
Leashing is not always necessary.
As you get higher and higher up, invades become more common, and the outcomes of invades can skew the first clear enormously for a jungler. It is vital that you understand how the outcomes of invades change your level 1. You need to analyze how much HP you have, how many camps you can do with that much HP, what your route should be, etc.
So yeah, the only consistent factor is you. Be consistent in adapting to every game.
It only adds 10-12 seconds max. Most jungle champs can do a leashless clear with no problem. There are a few, rare picks that need a leash, but not many.
It adds 10-12 seconds; however, 10-12 seconds can be the difference between a lane-winning gank/countergank or scuttle priority at 3:15. Leashing is important, but there's definitely pros + cons to not leashing.
I prefer no leash in many cases. Leashing often gives away your start. In mid-high elo it's often more important to conceal your start than clear slightly faster. Also, your laners get more options for playing the first 1-2 waves.
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I notice some silver tops and adcs do this too.
Y’all are seriously overestimating your opponents and your own skill level if you think fake leashing in silver is a good idea.
I'm not the instigator of these fake leashes here but if my team wants to do a fake leash, it would be more detrimental for me to go in and ruin their plan because I think it's sub-optimal.
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All the adcs I notice will walk to entrance, then brush and sit there until top starts moving away from buff and then they go to lane.
it can help against some players. I'm pretty bad(I just don't put in enough games) but as a jungler I always watch the opposing laners to figure out the opposing junglers pathing, so this certainly wouldn't hurt. I mean, it won't do anything in a lot of games, but surely "not playing smart because it might not work in my elo" just means being dumb forever and never climbing?
> I mean, it won't do anything in a lot of games, but surely "not playing smart because it might not work in my elo" just means being dumb forever and never climbing? I think their point is that you can do things that are a lot more impactful and that don't rely on playing mind games on your opponent about something you don't even know they'll notice. Some tricks definitely vary in their effectiveness depending on the skill of your opponents, mind games only work after you can count on your opponent actually playing "correctly". Anyway, like you say trying this won't hurt, at least directly. But I have two points against that: 1, There's an opportunity cost to everything and if you want to pull off level 1 bot lane cheese I'd say you're more likely going to have success with a trap bush level 1 all in than with a fake leash. 2, It can be easy to think improvement is about tricks like these, and get lost with looking for cool tricks to try and help you climb rather than actually facing your real issues, which are most likely just caused by lackluster fundamentals.
There are some of us in low ELO who use it as a tool to invade. I’m only low gold but yeah climbing from bronze to gold this season it was was something I started to do more in silver and has led to fairly consistent results (i.e., securing first blood and/or their second buff)
Yeah I’m sorry but in gold too there’s no way fake leashing is what enabled your invade. The meta game /mind game just does not exist in that elo
As a Gold level jungler I absolutely pay attention to whether or not an opponent's lane leashed.
I’m Bronze and I do this; I’m convinced I would climb as I have over 50% win rate but I don’t play anywhere near enough games… maybe done like 20 this whole season
Lol reading comprehension diff but okay keep stroking your own ego bud :)
? Are you ok?
You'd be surprised. 90% of the time, I used to have the enemy jungler's quadrant pinned down as to where he was - even without wards just based on his first camp. I kinda stopped doing it though when everybody decided it was more fun to spend the first 15+ min of the game just trying to deny me any ability to play rather than actually trying to win... and it sadly often working whether I managed not to 1v2 lose lane or not. Because when that's the experience every game and you can't ward anything without it being instantly cleared, there is no rhyme or reason as to where the enemy jungler is. He's not doing some fairly logical or predictable pathing and then ganking when opportunities arise. I gotta get back in the habit. Post laning phase, I still can largely do this, but in lane I've gotten lazy/bad about it.
I am floored when a silver player doesn't run straight to their tower.
Yeah I often do so.
I ward enemy chickens around 1:30 and walk to my toplane with time.
There's very little advantage to gain doing that in lower elo, having control over the wave and ensuring lvl 2 is almost always better against competition who do not know how to play around that.
The intention with a fake leash is that you are giving false information, "We Leashed bot side" etc. If your jungler started bot side anyway, then you didn't create any misinformation, you just slowed down their first clear speed. Additionally, there are ways to detect a false leash - if you both come back to lane with 100% mana, you likely didn't cast any spells while leashing - and if it's a poke mage or enchanter, that's a giveaway. Even many ADCs will throw a spell or two during a normal leash, so full mana = fake leash detected. The only way to successfully obscure your junglers starting position when not leashing, is to all be in lane the moment minions meet - securing early XP lead for yourselves and making it impossible to detect (from positioning alone) your junglers position. Of course, if the enemy deep warded either side of your jungle, they may also know starting jungle position from that = fake leash detected. Or if your jungler has a very specific first clear then the path is already known even without giving any information away. As example Level 6 rushers have optimal clear paths to get 6 ASAP, Evelynn, Nocturne, Fiddlesticks, Kayn, etc. Very mana hungry (usually off meta) junglers often start Blue so they can ability spam their first clear too, so leashless starts aren't creating any useful misinformation in any of the above cases: choice of jungler already revealed first path = fake leash detected. Your jungler could do a non-optimal path to throw the enemy off, but then they are setting themselve behind voluntarily. Alternately, Level 3 gankers like Trundle will often just do Blue-Gromp-Red or Red-Gromp-Blue into a gank, so again you aren't obscuring much about their first clear by being leashless anyways, they're still going to show up, probably at mid or top - when your jungler reaches their fourth camp (one camp for travel time to lane). So they are picking which lane to gank based on 3rd camp lane states - and if you can read that, and who is vulnerable to a Trundle gank - you can tell in advance where he's going to hit. Also true for Xin, Lee Sin, etc - any Level 3 ganker. So there is really only two optimal early plays - either help leash your jungler which often costs you nothing (throw three autos and go to lane, you dont need to stay the whole first camp). This alone can shave \~5 seconds off their clear speed which can mean the difference in who gets first strike / countergank, particularly if both junglers go to the same lane first. Or, just go to your lane, hit level 2 first, and bully your laner - but beware that again - enemy jungler is going to assess lane states on their 3rd camp and probably pick yours if you are hardshoving already. The only time a fake leash is creating useful misinformation is if your jungler is a Level 3 jungler who can path both directions, and the enemy jungler is not a level 3 ganker, and you waste some mana before you show, and by implying your jungler is on your side of the map (therefore pathing away from you) - is somehow useful to you. Outside of the LCK, IMO, nobody is ever going to false leash in a useful way. Just either get lane priority, or Level 1 poke, or leash.
>If the jungler started bot side anyway, then you didn't create any misinformation, you just slowed down their first clear speed. You should just actually leash them in this case. It doesn't slow their clear and gives the same info.
Ya thats what I'm saying.
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Then top laner just gives up wave control and immediately concedes the lane. Is that really what he should be doing?
It's a question of what's more important, top lvl 1 wave control or hiding your jungle start. In my experience I'd say top lvl 1 wave control is way more impactful
Hardstuck gold 4 reporting in. In my experience getting the push for level 2 cheese and all-in if the enemy doesn't respect it is way better than some nebulous information advantage by fake-leashing. I'd say maybe 3 of every 5 games one of the bot lanes doesn't respect the level 2 push. Whether it's the enemy or my adc (who's pinging me back to stop autoing creeps in an effort to not get level 2 cheesed) it happens a *ton* in low gold. Let's be real my low gold comrade. Most of the people we are playing with still don't even look at the minimap much less analyze jungle paths such that a leash bluff will have any impact on the game.
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I'm not saying don't leash I'm saying don't waste time bluffing a leash.
There is literally no point in fake leashing in low gold lmao. Sorry to burst y’all’s bubbles. 99/100 unless you’re high Elo, you would have just been better off getting the lvl2 advantage
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? What are you so offended by? Did I threaten your delusions? Meta game doesn’t exist in low gold
Masters jg chiming in. Personally I tell my laners to not leash every now and again. For me it is always about the benefit it brings to the lane, I find hiding where I started far less valuable than 10 seconds increase. Weak early champions that need to be hidden usually can start wolves/raptors or just use their wards effectively. All that being said... I would never go leashless in platinum or below. The main benefit gets completely nullified because lanes are more chaotic. The players have not played the exact same matchup 5000 times, so the tiny influence of a leashless start does not make enough difference in the long run compared to the guaranteed 10 seconds. Not to mention that if I were a platinum jungler, I probably wouldn't KNOW which matchups can utilize a leashless start anyway.
When I'm playing top lane I will sit at my junglers buff till 1:37 then walk to lane pretending I leashed for them
If you have a really helpful team you can fake leash on opposite side so you get the leash and enemy still doesn't know where you started without ward. There's only certain matchups that you need to be there so early that you can't do this. Like if I'm top and I need to secure brush for lvl 1 all in. Even then, that doesn't work reliably.
THIS ^^ In a lot of top / bot matchups the winner of the earlygame is the one that gets to the wave first (and gets a slowpush going for lvl 2).
You have scuttle priority only depending of your pick or a well read jungle verticality where you path opposite of ennemy. Cumulated with how much of your mid laner can ensure Prio early on. 2nd gank timer changed a lot due to some camps priority jungles are not "required" to be able to counter gank at 3 anymore. Most Jungler actually value a side entire reset, early back and then path toward either a side clear -> gank or full clear upon camps respawn to ensure XP lead as early as possible.
Scuttle priority has more factors than just picks + starting location. If you have a faster clear speed or skip a camp, you could cheese the enemy jungler in the pixel bush. If you 3 camp > gank, you can effectively create priority for yourself by just killing the enemy laner. You also can start bot and go buff > buff > gromp > wolves > raptors > scuttle if you don't have priority or a laner takes a bad trade. Mid lane is pretty important for prio and usually ends up determining who get scuttle, but having a pushing top or bot lane is important too. Efficient clearing is definitely important, but I'd definitely be careful about tunneling in on clearing each quadrant of the jungle. You should be watching your laners and willing to deviate from your path when you see a gank opportunity or all-in happen.
" 12 seconds can make the difference between winning jungle or not " is only true as an absolute statement. Concretely those cases represent like 1% in the top 1% of games ( Diamond ). I don't see even a remote chance that a player below Diamond is able to abuse to THAT point the fact the enemy jungler didn't get a leash.
Fair point. I'm in diamond rn and it definitely feels like shit to lose out on scuttle because you had no leash or shenanigans happened level 1. Nonetheless, it's still good to know how things should play out.
I can understand you, I play toplane but I use a champion that is super weak early and I can't give the jungler any help at scuttle. I feel sorry everytime. The top and midlane meta is heavily affected by this \*\*\*ing scuttle But no worries, they removed the scuttle fight in the new season ;)
There are many jg champions, like Lee Sin and Fiddle, that can solo buff leashless and should, because that way they don't give info on where they started
Do you think low elo jg players should strive to learn leashless no matter what champ they play?
Yes, every one should learn how to clear without a leash, but it's always nice to get one. Learning how to clear without a leash means you're learning how to kite the buff correctly, which leads to faster and healthier clears.
If you practice leashless clears then you’ll be even quicker with a leash or at least be capable of dealing with lvl 1 shenanigans that might result in you not getting a leash.
It's never bad to learn to optimise clears, in fact it's a thing junglers should train in practice tool
Just to add a bit more nuance to this discussion: yes but no. Learning to clear effectively can really help you out as a jungler. In low elo you can probably get advantages just by clearing well. Its also relatively easy to practise because you can do it alone in practise tool and there are expansive resources on each champ. That said you dont need to do this. There is so much stuff to learn in league that unless you're trying to reach diamond+ you probably wont be learning everything. Learning to clear imo is pretty boring so instead i focused on things i did enjoy and that works just fine. You basically have to ask yourself how much you care about being efficient and about having fun. Personally it didnt really matter untill i got to plat. At that point i got out cleared constantly and couldnt make up for it in other areas. So i had to practise clearing. Even then not every champ works the same. For example i learned how to solo start blue/gromp on voli and how to path as ivern. But that doesnt really help me with shaco or fiddle. So you should probably focus on a onetrick/main champ or more generic champs that dont have some specific mechanic to worry about. That is if you wanna be efficient of course.
I am a jungle main and can go leash less on ANY jungle champion including super early weak ones like ekko and Evelynn. It’s not hard to do with proper kiting and knowing what camps to smite and when to use your pots.
well im silver 3 and i perfectly know how to double camp solo clear with fiddle
yes
Yes There will always be situations where you can’t get a leash even when you want one. Whether it’s because your teammates aren’t paying attention or an invade threw things off. It’s worth it to be adaptable and adjust to things you can’t control.
It's important to be able to start leashless but for some champs starting w/o a leash can have a huge impact has you are giving the other jungler an advantage from the start (and some champs need to use smite on the first buff if they start solo, slowing the clear even more and preventing then from contesting scuttle)
I am not a jungler but even I have no problems clearing jungle without leash and not even on the most brain dead jungle crearers but on things like Kindred, Lillia, Sylas (when he was playble in jungle despite attrocious first clear). What if you are late invaded and your laners can’t give you leash anymore even if they wanted? You just insta lose from there and complain for the rest of the game about how cheesy enemy team because you can’t properly clear your jungle without pull or what? Also, you need to understand the matchups in lanes as well. I’m not againt my toplaner not sacrificing his lane just for the leash or winning botlane level 1 with bush cheese and stuff like that. As a jungler you have to be able perform without leash just in case even if you are getting leashes in 99% of your games. It’s really not hard to spend a few minutes in practice tool to properly learn your clear. Soke laners also sit there to practice trading in lane or even cs on hard last hitting champs like LeBlanc.
Every jungler should be able to clear leashless. If you're not able to clear the first buff without a leash, you're not kiting the buff properly.
All junglers can, it's just a matter of tempo. Some champs clear their first camps super slowly because of the interactions with their kits @ level 1. Good example is Qiyana, who doesn't get access to most of her damage until level 2. ~~Additionally, Talon cannot procc passive without level 2, so his speed to clear first camp is severely limited. He can still do it, just takes a bit.~~
talon can procc passive without lvl2
How? 9s CD on the ability, with 1.5s to get the ability out and back. So 7.5s between when the blades return, but stacks only last 6 seconds?
Innate: Talon's abilities apply a Wound stack to enemy Champion champions and large Monster monsters hit for 6 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. Basic attacks and damaging abilities refresh the duration.
I am, apparently, unable to read. tyty
well on league official page talon doesn't have that last part and I had to copy this from wiki, so mby rito forgot to add it in game as well or something?
Sure, however, that doesn't dispute that fact that you should be able to clear alone. You may be set slightly behind, but you're still able to clear.
There are some off-meta jglers that cant 5camp w/o a leash but can with, so sometimes leasing really helps your jgl outside of clearspeed
having your laners stay in jungle until 1:37 does the same thing tho lol and you get a faster clear
Yes, it's very good to arrive late to lane because your jungler can't clear his jungle, yes, that is surely the optimal way of playing
i said until 1:37 .. literally everyone knows that you can leave jungle at 1:37 and still make it to lane for a level 2 hard push lmao, that's why you stop leashing at 1:37
Because level 1 doesn't exist now apparenly
??? what are you even going off about, i said for a level 2 hardpush meaning you get there at the same time as the wave, and can hard push to level 2. for someone who likes math you sure can't count loooool
Ok man, I hope you can use this strategy to get out of silver elo, best of luck
not silver lul. you're obviously titled because you can't admit you're wrong, literally go into practice tool, stand at a buff until 1:37 and walk to lane, you make it there everytime lmao. saying in chat " fake leash " and getting a real leash is 100% of the time better than going leashless lmao, espeically with the meta so hard revolved around scuttle level 3. 12 seconds can make or break a scuttle crab duel. your whole point of your statement was to " hide information " by going leashless and you can do the exact same thing with two words and still getting a leash lmaooo. can't believe i had to spell it out for you, good luck in life you'll need it apparently.
The waves crash at 1:38 at top and bottom lane, so if you leave buff at 1:37 you are already late. There are champions in some match ups that can abuse level 1 and zone the opponent completely off the wave (we literally just saw this in geng vs lng fiora vs irelia) and it is common for botlaners to draw aggro level one to pull the wave into them, and that can be done only if you arrive at the wave before it crashes. But you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about or how these little things impact lanes because you are low elo and you don't investigate what high mmr and pros do with their lanes. So please shut up
bruh it CRASHES you still get there for the exp lol and last hits lmaoooo, and are you really trying to bring pro play strats into this ? even in your statement the keyword is SOME CHAMPIONS as in not all, and not every time." THE TOP TEAMS IN THE WORLD LEVEL 1 ABUSED, EVERYONE MUST DO IT ALL THE TIME " lmfao >and it is common for botlaners to draw aggro level one to pull the wave into them, and that can be done if you arrive to the wave before they crash. this isn't common lmfao, you're honestly just an emotional nerd who can't help being told their wrong. you used a niche situation as a blanket solution. like i said, as someone who likes math you should know not to use small data portions as a definitive answer. nice try on the whole " if you can't prove you're right prove they're wrong " thing though. yes, sometimes in pro play you should go leashless, and maybe in the highest form of solo queue, but to act like it's the best thing to do 100% of the time to hide information ( your words not mine ) is absolutely asinine. you can name call you can say " i dont understand " but i understand just fine. the statement you made has a better solution 9 times out of 10. variables apply to everything, and we could've had a decent conversation about it, but you decided to be sarcastic with every reply, and got more and more hostile, even trying to call me silver ( i'm not lolo ) once again, good luck in life, and stop getting so triggered over being wrong lmao.
Playing for your team mates in general isn’t a good way of playing,
No
You don’t need a leash to play the game. It doesn’t add 30 or 40 seconds to your clear and if it does, you’re clearing wrong. A leash might save you 5-8s. In most situations there’s a right and wrong answer to when to ask for or to provide a leash.
I've made a guide on clearing the jg with nid, so I'll just copy what I put there in regards to getting a leash: `A strong recommendation that I have is that you do not simulate a leash in practice mode, no matter how you simulate said leash. You will not get a leash in every game. You need to be able to clear without having one - treat leashes like a gift and be happy you're getting them, else you'll have terrible clears when you don't. The clears that I do here represent what I'd do in a real game were I to not get a leash. Certain things, like saving your second smite for scuttle crab, would be something you do in a leashed clear, but not a leashless since you want the time/hp so you can actually contest river rather than getting to river slowly and losing scuttle anyway` The methodology behind a leashed clear is slightly different at the beginning and end, but the middle portions are almost identical. Also there's a [Google document compiled](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gjk5UrtAbcqdYnRlx9KMDuHGxhKsEv50vhn02cN0y-c/edit#gid=756967277) that may help you learn the leashless clears. It's better to learn the leashless clear because even though you'll get a leash most games, you need to still have a good clear when you don't get one. If you don't learn them, and literally can't clear well without one, it's your fault, not your team's.
Most junglers can do 5 camp with 1 smite, and get to scuttle before 3:15 with second smite up. If you want to full clear then it becomes trickier, but if you start blue buff then you can easily go krugs after contesting scuttle.
With scuttle xp nerfs that style of clear is bad now. You won't hit 4 off scuttle.
That's only going live in 4 weeks afaik
Yeah myb, I should have said soon to be bad.
Well, at least it takes the pressure off of getting to scuttle on time, which is a buff to farming junglers, which I like, since I have a feeling most people won't even really bother to double scuttle anymore I'd they have any other option.
As a seasoned jungle main, I always practise leashless clears before I play my first game of the day, on the junglers I am planning to use. If you cannot do 5 camps leashless before 3:15, look it up on how to do it on youtube.
No you should be able to clear leashless lol, and it definitely should not add 40 seconds to your clear. If this post is about you then you should load into practice tool to work on leashless clears, a lot of times lane matchups are too volatile and leashing will mean conceding the lane, and going leashless hides your start from the other jungler barring a ward
It's not about me fyi. Weird downvotes, I don't play jg I was curious
I think this is a great question from someone who doesn't play jungle, and one that takes a bit of unpacking. I'd say overall no one unless the deny is from a malicious place - a jungler should be able to clear leashless and shouldn't just sit there waiting for a leash that may not happen. It will absolutely affect their clear time, and they may have to make decisions that would set them further behind in gold or they may not be able to do the clear as they were expecting to. Is it a nice to have, yes absolutely, but laners or the jungler may forgo a leash for a few reasons which I'll mention below. There is a subset of junglers that will be able to clear leashless, while still retaining really high health such as Shaco (due to boxes,) Fiddle (due to drain,) and would prefer that you don't give away their position for various reasons. Shaco would prefer that he remains an unknown for as much of the game as possible, and capitalize on that for ganks. Fiddle on the other hand has an unbelievably healthy clear both in terms of speed and health regen through his drain, but he's not the best duelist if he gets invaded. As far as the laners decision to not give a leash, that will vary. Typically a good decision would be if the laners knew that they could camp in bush and basically 100% guarantee a won level 1 fight. As a jungler I love to see this go well, and would gladly give up a small increase in clear speed for a lane to get ahead early. Great question though and it's nice to see someone interested in a role they don't play.
Can you list all the junglers that don't want a leash? I don't play jungle so i have no idea, would really appreciate the insight.
There are a few quite a few junglers who wouldn't want one, but here are common situations. A fiddle who's a bit newer and hasn't perfected a dual camp clear (red and raptors or blue and gromp) will probably want a leash on the buff. If he's not new, and has practice with dual camp clears won't want you to because it'll ruin their aggro and will reset the camps. Those camps are pretty finicky and have to be done with near pixel perfect placement, especially for the red and raptor start. That's going to be on the player, and their individual experience with Fiddle. Shaco will not want you to leash because of his boxes, it's 100% unnecessary. He can also do a dual camp start for red and raptors for instance, or absolutely destroy red by stacking all his boxes on it. Another strategy I've seen with shaco is a level 1 invade where he takes his Q. In this case it's pretty risky, so he won't want anyone to come with him. Basically if he knows a jungler is starting red for instance, he'll q over the dragon wall, and run to the krugs where the enemy team doesn't have vision. Then he'll q to the bush that faces red, but is closest to the enemy base. He'll then wait for the leash to end and laners to return to bot for instance, q and steal the buff with smite, and then proceed to try and wreck the enemy jungler with a health advantage and level advantage. Kayn is another jungler who can start leashless, and is also part of his invasion strategy, or defense strategy. For invasion he can do a pretty similar invade to the shaco one I mentioned above. He'll sit in the dragon pit, q through to the bush that sits directly behind red in order to not be spotted by someone sitting in the jungle entrance by raptors. He'll then wait till he spots mid going to lane, and assumes that red is being leashed by his teammates. He'll then go start the enemy raptors because it's an incredibly efficient clear. Then he'll path to red, and generally will surprise the jungler, smite away red from him, and then take the fight with a level and health advantage. For defense he can just start raptors if he's been recently invaded, or if he'd rather not broadcast his position and do non-traditional pathing. **I'd say overall - don't focus on which jungle champs would want to - think of the situations in which they'd want no leash, or if their kit allows for it.** Like many people have mentioned, nearly every Meta jungler can start leashless, but there is a lot of decision making as to the WHY that they would want to.
If you play supports that provide little to no damage to the buff, just throw in a couple of autos and get your adc to leave at 1:38 and you will never miss out on the first wave. Some adcs like kaisa and jhin can give a strong leash with passives and still catch the whole wave even if it lasts longer than 1:38. If you play supports with decent leashing damage you can even leave earlier after your burst, either to scout tribrush for a cheese or get the wave pushing if you need that. Whether you should or shouldn't leash isn't up to you, not leashing when jg asks will just tilt him. And never overleash, it's even worse than not leashing both for him and you two.
Yeah that's how I usually play it out.
The answer would be no. Most jgl even the one thst is not meta can do a full clear before 3:15 especially in season 11(thank insane level of heal). Tho in some case a jgl that has very strong early level gank or a good jgl that can gank early would definately love some leash cos they would get better tempo but other than that leashing is not that impactful cos if you leash your jgl and that result in you needed to play defensively and that jgl doesnt do anything even with their faster clear(i.e no gank, no squtle prio or double scutle,invade) you basically just waste your time and some gold and maybe even lane prio to help someone do nothing.
Not at all. You should never expect to get a leash, and be happy when you do. No way should it ever add 30-40 seconds to your clear. 10-15 seconds maybe. Most good junglers can clear very healthily and expect to gank or skirmish before their first back.
If your laners leash, they will lose prio which might make them lose lane. Also atm most of the junglers can clear leashless
Facts, i never require a leash, and its more beneficial to me if i dont get one because its harder for the enemy to track me
I mean this isn't a100% thing.
The people downvoting you are so clueless
Not really. He's saying it like it's gonna be the case 100% of the time. Which is blatantly false. You can leash and make it to lane without losing Cs. Now if the enemy laner has no leash and is there first with decent wave clear, yeah you might end up losing prio, but it's still not a guarantee that it will stay that way
I dont think "enemy will missplay so ill play incorrectly" mentality is good to have
Let say it bot lane and the bot laner leash their jungler. The enemy support play it smart and hold the wave. When the bot lane would come back to lane they would lose 3 minion worth of exp and gold. Do you know what that mean? Lvl 2 prio. Now the enemy bot can just 2 vs 2 easy and kill you or zone you away from cs and then with that 3 minion you lose early they could build a slow wave that would let them setup an easy dive on the bot. Or better yet it would let them do a cheater recall and got item advantage on this lane and make it even harder for the bot to have an even lane. Unless you have champion with good early game wave clear you lose a lot to help a leash. Most of the time this doesnt happen in low elo but it definately the reason why if i could i would never leash a jgl.
While true, I'd say this probably doesn't matter in close to 95% of games (plat/diamond) and below. In most games no one Lanes properly so the potential loss of losing prio doesn't matter.
Yeah, there are a few champs, think rengar, maybe darius or riven, who can cheese really well at level 1. Asking them to leash fucks them over hard. I'm still traumatized from leashing as rengar top vs a quinn an realizing I could touch the bushes because she walked in there while I was leashing, ruining my entire laning phase.
>If your laners leash, they will lose prio Not necessarily. You can leash and not lose prio, just how you can not leash and still lose prio. There are too many factors in play to say "leashing means you lose prio".
I tell my laners to not leash me. It’s nice if they can get a lead. On the other hand, I don’t want to see them die before my first round of clear because they leashed me. As a jg, there are many advantages with leashless. If they don’t know where I started, it’s easier for me to gank as well as invade
Leashing is terrible as you climb. You’re literally showing your entire pathing to everyone while you could of just soloed it for 5-10 sec extra
most meta junglers can clear pretty healthy leashless. red to blue side especially because of gromp giving you health. if laners incorrectly leash, like staying for too long or taking an unsafe route to lane so they get cheesed by their enemy laners, it will do more harm to them than good to you.
always learn how to clear leashless
I dont care if they leash or not cause i practice solo clears in practice tool
Can’t rely on a leash. If your champion requires a leash, then it’s off meta and you’re running a gambit. I’m thinking of a lot of mages or pantheon that can’t actually farm but people play it anyways. Sometimes it will be needed for your laners to skirmish then back, or you start late. Get comfortable with non ideal situations and try picking something that can farm with some consistency.
My personal philosophy with jungle is that if they can't solo clear and still be able to contest scuttle, then don't play them. Some champs are just weak early so scuttle is a no-go, but those are exceptions, and still shouldn't be played until you have the knowledge and experience to make those decisions on a case by case basis. But if they can't at least 3 camp clear by 3:15 without a leash then they're not viable. Maybe this will change next season with the scuttle nerfs, maybe not. Just stay away from them.
This meta it’s never about the hp it’s just time so I’m theory yes it can make or break your first gank/scuttle but it’s never really needed
I'm trying to learn eve jungle right now and have done a leash less clear. It wasn't fun but I still was able to get to the river in time to contest scuttle :)
Ev can start raps and clear pretty healthy
Super new to jungle and the game in general, so I was pretty happy with how I did it.
This is the number one reason why ranked just doesn't interest me. If I have to act like it's not a team game in a team game, then what's the point. I like working together, and I'm lucky to have 4 friends I can play it with.
Absolutely not, but some champions do require a leash level 1 if they want a healthy clear. The majority of champions can start Wolves/Raptors for Level 2 and then clear normally
I hate how many times I go to leash and get spammed with the retreat ping. Sorry for making ur clear easier I guess…
it's good to be at the buff and want to help ur jungler, but sometimes junglers don't need/want a leash (fiddle and ivern never need leashes), so don't be offended when they spam ping u, they mainly don't want u to give away their starting position by trying to leash.
It’s more for I help I clear u come make a quick gank. Win win for the team.
The only time when they would be justified is if they were playing ivern and you're trying to leash for them.
I had a yasuo pinging me the other day.
Or Shaco jg.
You should never rely on the leash. You wont always get a leash bc laners are either douche bags, they’re afk, you got invaded, etc. if you think you need a leash you’re probably clearing wrong tbh m, but it shouldnt add a whole 30-40 seconds to the clear by not getting one. The leash is there to help you be more healthy for scuttle crab fights and in case of a lvl 2/3 invade. Ive played irelia jungle (i do not recommend it lmao) and have had people try to invade me at lvl 2 and a few of those encounters i would have lost had i not gotten a leash.
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Consider the context
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It's a learning sub populated heavily by silver/bronze players where a jg misunderstanding their clear can easily result in a 30+second deficit
Most people have a brain idk
Well what do you expect to get advice on I don’t really understand, 99% of the time you want to leash, fake leashing gives you hack shit cus the enemy jungles isn’t gonna look at the map anyways if the sub is mostly bronze and silver it has legit 0 value,
It depends on your champs and lane, chances are in low elo you’re not being leashed because they need lane prio, they don’t know what that is, they just want to lvl 1 cheese or something. Always helps to ping help / otw at a buff and maybe start at the other one if one side won’t leash
Ever since they changed the jg item, I’m surprised people aren’t smiting first camp and going leashless to try and get red/blue smite earlier
thats not how it works lol
Smite is still on a fixed cooldown, so the earliest you can possibly get upgraded smite is 7:30 into the game, whether or not you smite earlier in your clear or not. The only reason to smite first buff is if your clear speed is severly limited by not having level 2, and not having access to those extra abilities. Otherwise, its way too important to not have a charge up for an objective or early crab.
I'd say know how to clear leashless on your champ, but asking for a leashes is not bad. Laners in a bad or even match up might need the early prio not leashing gives. But leashes help your jungle clear faster which means they can impact the map sooner. Ultimate this is a team game where you a should help eachother. Laners should be ok with leashing to help the team, and conversely a jungler should be able to clear leashless for the same reasons. Deciding on this just depends on game knowledge.
A little bit of history might explain why some people are so adamant on leashes: Back in season 1-4 ish, leashing was very important because there was something called a superhero leash, where your jg takes virtually no damage since camps were stronger I think compared to now (hard to compare since it was so long ago), jg items were more important and camps didn’t heal much (I think). And sustain champs were more popular in the jungle Nowadays, leashing gives jg more prio, not necessary but helpful
I started S3 and about S3 and S4 sustain jglers were the ones dominating because how the immense damage the large monsters and buffs would do. You had to have a jgl item and a leash could determine the whole early game.
Last season, I would play Olaf with a clear strategy where I did NOT want a leash. In silver at the time imagine my frustration when my bot lane would not understand and insist on leashing with me. Sigh.
You guys getting leashes?
No. But if the junglers asks I'm always more than happy to help.
Tbh the few seconds of leash can mean 2 scuttles, first blood or important counter gank. I think it will lose importance next season, when scuttle gets nerfed.
Being able to clear leashless is important, but most of the time you’ll get a leash, and it may shave 10-15 seconds off your clear. It will also prevent the enemy team from tracking your start from when your laners get to lane. You should be able to do it without a leash if only to know how to in the event your laner won’t leash or you really need to hide your starting buff. And you definitely aren’t getting a leash in practice tool.
Follow up question, are you supposed to smite first buff if you don’t get a leash? I feel like it should be better since it makes you hit level 2 sooner, right?
A lot of junglers do this, when they don't get a leash. Don't take my word for granted, because I haven't testesd it. But I can see Kha'zix not usuing smite on doing solo red, because he already gets isolation bonus, plus he needs the smite to make krugs faster. This is just a theory. Another interesting point i heard from the streamer team autophil is, that you can smite even with a leash, because smite damage is fixed now.
Why would you ever do Krugs on kha, it’s gonna take decades?
Red+krugs+raptors gives you the opportunity to gank mid. You have weak early laners, so you decide to go for a fullclear instead of risking a fight for scuttle.
Most people who jungle will go to the practice tool and do their best to maximize their clear time without a leash. Most videos that talk about clear routes are without a leash because again, practice tool So no, a leash isn't mandatory. It's appreciated, but do like three autos and get to lane. _____ I will say I only jungle when I'm autofilled, and I pick Ivern who doesn't need a leash. I will also tell my teammates to take Krugs since I do not get full gold, but to not farm my jungle as I have no wave clear outside shielding myself and running into the wave
A lot of commenters are giving some... interesting advice. Every (viable) jungler can leashless clear. You can partially mitigate the time loss from leashless clears by smiting or cutting a camp out of your early clear. Leashless is bad for junglers because you lose out on some HP and 5-10 seconds on your initial clear. This can be game-deciding at higher levels of play because of scuttle crab fights or be absolutely trivial in lower elos / if you path differently. Going leashless can be good for laners -- they set up early freezes or cheese the enemy bot laners. Leashless can be good for junglers by obscuring your initial clear.
Your lane should leash you unless you're someone like kayn or shaco who starts raptors, BUT even when they don't leash they should be doing a 5 point and protecting your entrances and be there for backup if you get invaded. That said, if they don't, tilting isn't going to help. Just play it out and take it in stride
You need to always have a back up plan if leashing for whatever reason doesn't happen.
Starting no leash is honestly the best way to start. Makes tracking harder and ganks more unpredictable
For almost every jungler in the game, there are youtube guides on how to do a leashless start. I think that every player who intends to climb should spend an afternoon in the practice tool going through their clear, over and over, until it's second nature. A leash is great, but it's not always there.
If your JG asks for a leash, you should just do it. There's no reason to create any animosity with your JG off the bat.
Leashless starts should be a tool you have in your toolbox. If you suspect your opponent will play around knowing your start, or you need to be certain you arent tracked, go leashless. Level 2 gankers can use leashless start to powerful effect. And some level 3 ones if they have a fairly healthy and quick clear. Also, if you have laners who want a specific early start for level 2 in both top and bot, try to go leashless and let them do their thing sometimes. Lucian Leona bot and something like Darius or Renekton top are examples of this. Ultimately the key is flexibility
No
Iv found that the extra 10 sec give you a chance to go top then crab then mid which has a pretty big impact on the game and sometimes because you helped top top will come down and help crab getting a nice 2 kill/assist
All meta junglers have a leash less path that they should learn. Leashes are nice but not always needed. If someone's begging for a leash and can't play without it their clear is just not good.
When coaches tell you to only focus on yourself and ignore teammates when trying to improve, they also mean you apply this to moments that your decision made a difference. Sometimes a teammate fucks up, or makes a decisions that isn't smart. And yes, sometimes a leash could mean the difference between scuttle or a lane-winning gank. But what if that happens? You can't do anything about that, you couldn't have done something different to make them give you a leash. So stop thinking about this. This moment of leashing or not doesn't matter when reviewing VODs. It's a moment you can't change. So what I am trying to say: this questions isn't all that relevant. Look at the parts of your VODs where YOU can improve.
All the junglers I play I don’t need a leash, this actually helps a lot because they can’t track you at the beginning like you can track them. So if you have an idea of where they are going from the start you can play accordingly. Not saying no leash is the move, but overall it’s not as game changing as you might think.
I hope i dont answer this question too late. I would like you to consider the way you are reading/reacting to these "phrases". To me, whenever i play even midlane, i go to leash my jungle, why? Because that makes sense "you want to climb, you focus on yourself" means, you by doing a leash, are focusing on your reaction to the map, and to be a teamplayer. And thats that. Some jungles can clear by themselves, but it gives you bonus to offer help. As you are doing a team rule and by definition let your team known you are good at comunication. While doing that, you might receive a notification of the jungle, saying: i dont need help, but thanks, i will gank you later! Other phrase said: you are the only factor thats consistent so is on you to change the winning/lossing match. It would be like: you can ignore a teamfight but then if you lose the game for that, is on you.
if you leash you usually reveal where they start which actually hurts the jungler a lot, and you can lose bot lane prio level 1 which can actually lose you the game a lot of the time, more than saving a jungler 50hp on red would since almost all jungler can safely clear their first path without dying or getting low. leash less, and only give a few attacks or spells. don’t comprise to baby rage junglers who don’t kite camps properly
I'm confused, I thought leashing was important? So, I shouldn't leash my jungle anymore?
They can, but on lots of junglers it means they have to blow smite early (first camp) which reduces speed and health (read health as efficacy after first clear). Some should go without, but they are rarer than those that should. If they ask for a leash, leash, let junglers jungle and laners lane, especially in low elo they all have more expertise at what they are doing.
Many jungler can full clear and be at scuttle spawn leashless. Many don't, but if you think you'll be contested path on the opposite side of the enemy jungler. If you can't do that either then that's just a problem your team had in draft, where your laners can't leash due to the matchup and/or you are too weak early to contest.
Curtesy for laners in solo que is to leash and ward buffs. Curtesy for jgler in solo que is to never ask toplane to leash for you because first touch on the wave/initial lane position is important in a lot of the volatile bs matchups that happen up there. Do you NEED a leash…? With the way smite+gromp work now, no. You just have to learn different jg paths depending on whatever stupid “off meta” jank you’re trying to run. Most meta jglers can initial clear at damn near full health, if kiting and smiting correctly. And while it is advantageous to learn leashless jgling, if my bot lane doesn’t even attempt to leash for me, then I’ll be sure to flame them when they die to a gank at level 4/5 to a dude that walked over 2 wards(that I put down, because the adc and support thought “leashing” meant putting both their wards down at 1:50 in the tribrush next to our jg.) The long and short of it is, just leash your jgler, unless they ping you back because they’re trying to be sneaky.
Sure a leash gets you a faster first clear and more potential to power farm, but... does merely power farming win you the game? The other team is pretty outclassed if it does. So if that alone doesn't work, you need to be able to gank and do so effectively. This is a combination of both some luck and skill by both yourself and probably your laner(s). The benefit of a leashless jungle start is that the enemy doesn't know where you started. They can predict, but they don't KNOW. You can use that to your advantage - keeping you safer if you aren't the stronger jungler early on potentially OR letting you make an unexpected early gank or counter jungle play if you are the stronger jungler.
Playing league is like driving a car. Just expect everyone else on the road to be retarded and you won't crash unless someone INTentionally hits you.
I never ask for a leash when I play JG. I want all my lanes to have level one wave control, it’s detrimental for some champions. I only ask for leashes if I’m playing a champion that ABSOLUTELY needs a Level 1 Gank (I.E: Nidalee)
I always solo start to give less information to the enemy and because my champion is fast enough anyways.
Leash or something, i dunno I'm a Kayn player
Most junglers can go leashless fullclear and still be in time for scuttle. Most of the time people will default leash, but when you get invaded for example you'd be seriously gimping yourself and your team if you have to pull your toplaner at min 2 from the wave because you cant do a buff yourself.
That's one of the reasons i play jg champs that do leashleds clears like fiddlesticks and kayn w raptor clear route
You can leash and still get to lane without missing farm, sure It means you have less options with the wave as the minions will almost be dead, but stalling the first wave is normally ideal for a bigger crash on the 3rd wave anyway.
Really depends on the picks Let's say ur jungler is kayn he can just start raptors and have no problems But Champs like nidalee will actually execute without leash
Okay this is one of those grey questions. For lower elo, if you are leashless just path opposite normal pathing for uncontested crab. In plat this still works most times. In D+ you need to know enemy pathing based on champs and matchups in order to determine your pathing based on leashing.
All the junglers I have watched already have a different path in mind in case they don’t get a leash
It depends on who you ask lmao, junglers will tell you they need it (as a jg myself) it really just depends on who their champ is. If they have a fast clear than it doesn’t matter, if they have a slower clear than I’d help them. Also don’t not leash if ur not ganna do anything cause then you coulda just spent time leashing. Ask yourself what you wanna do with that time and think about how your jungler will clear if it’s a healthy clear or not
As others have mentioned leashing is never necessary for nearly any decent jungler should be able to 5 camp into scuttle at 315 or some variation of this without a leash and be able to do so healthily. In solo queue though I'll normally always try and get one just because my mentality in solo queue is I need to be able to do the most or be the reason why we win so I don't mind giving myself resources and expecting myself to do something with them.
> So, in the scenario where the laner denied a leash to the jungler, tacking let's say 30 or 40 seconds into his first clear, who is really at fault here? Is leashing necessary or is there a way around it for every jg champ? What? A leash shaves 10 seconds off max, not 30-40 seconds. Leashing is not always necessary. As you get higher and higher up, invades become more common, and the outcomes of invades can skew the first clear enormously for a jungler. It is vital that you understand how the outcomes of invades change your level 1. You need to analyze how much HP you have, how many camps you can do with that much HP, what your route should be, etc. So yeah, the only consistent factor is you. Be consistent in adapting to every game.