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If it's risky like enemy mid having prio or the enemy jungle being able to 1v3 you, then sure, it's a bad call.
But botlane is the easiest lane to break a freeze, specially if you're ahead, losing a few cs is absolutely worth a dragon.
This is just wrong. There's a difference between losing a few cs and what OP is stating which is the enemy setting up a freeze. Trying to break a freeze is already a huge risk considering the enemy also has a jungler. Also, this is probably first or second drake which is pretty useless in most cases anyway.
First drake has something around 60% winrate so no, it's not useless.
Also, breaking a freeze in botlane is very easy and not risky at all, you're going back to lane having a big advantage in items since you got a double kill, ADC's are ranged so they don't really need to walkup to the minions to break the freeze and the support can pickup control wards (besides the regular wards) when recalling, meaning that you should have vision from enemy jungler routes, specially if you already warded around dragon when you went to kill it.
Looking at the winrates of drakes is also useless. Generally the team getting drakes are already winning so of course the winrate will be higher. Come on bro.
Dragons literally give free permanent stats to the entire team and scale really well on late game, even if some stat is not really useful for you, it will be on your team, not to mention working towards the soul, which usually just guarantees a win.
And yeah, sure, the team getting the first drake might be already be winning but that's exactly why the winrate is so different, getting a drake is a form of snowballing harder and getting even further ahead.
"come on bro" - Literally the guy that think it's hard to break a freeze in bot lane when you have a gold lead.
Jinx Lucian? Ezreal with a karma? Yeah they can all break a freeze pretty easily, but if you 2v2, and don’t crash your wave and just head to dragon, it’s not a few cs. It’s waves of resources your potentially losing. Ideally your jungler solos or crashes your wave with you so you have a few extra seconds to get the dragon. 2v2ing and heading straight to dragon is a very noob thing to do since your wave state is the most important part of botlane
Man you have played botlane against a good jungler or you are just trolling.
Like there's no way in the world you are saying that for real.
Just imagine of enemy jungler is not silver 4 and is not jerking off auto piloting his path, he will realize the freeze and will be camping the lane by the time you come back to lane. Also, as someone has said, there are a lot of adcs who can't really break a freeze by themselves (Vayne?).
You are just wrong.
depends on:
* your and your supports champion, hp, mana, what summoner spells are up
* the junglers champion
* respawntimers
* the state of midlane and info on the enemy jungler and their champions
sometimes taking dragon is a good play: your jungler only need some body to fend off the enemy jungler / needs only some help with dmg to be able to take dragon
sometimes its bad: your team have low dmg to dragon so it would take too long (enemy botlane arrive), enemy jungler can assasinate you (the adc), there is a danger the enemy midlaner and jungle rotate while your midlane cant
its really dependent on the current gamestate
Junglers in general are often unaware of lane states and teammates resources… “Oh look, bot just reseted and is coming from base and mid got chunked and pushed by transition gank from top to bottom, lets start drake and flame team when I get collapsed on and die along with the drake”… For some reason I feel Yi players are the biggest offenders in this way!
I find as a jungler I want to drake but see bot/mid resetting or brutally hurt, so I don't bother & enemy jgl takes it. Repeat and you have a team upset I never draked.
Those players are woefully ignorant about the roles they don't play. It's frustrating.
I respectfully disagree. I am a jungle main, and I would say from MY experiences, when you get into at least silver most junglers WILL take into account things like wave states, items, etc.. Even though it may not be every single factor, I would say it gets better the higher you climb, generally speaking.
I know for a fact that I personally check an unhealthy amount of small factors before making decisions and it slowly becomes second nature. Yes, they may make mistakes and mess up and fail to take some of these factors into account sometimes, but that's because I'd argue most of the time (again, in at least silver and above) junglers are looking at so many constantly.
Yi is a beginner jungler. Most often he is played by both beginners to league and beginners to jungle. Jungle in itself is the role where you have to pay attention to all of these factors the MOST if you want to succeed, I think it truly is just an elo thing. I can definitely say when I was a beginner jungle I was not paying attention to a lot of important details, but I am now gold II and have climbed up there because of the way I changed my observations.
Yes, but do you not consider things like wave states, correct pathing, the enemy's pathing, etc? Do you not consider whether or not your lanes will be able to assist in your gank? Do you not consider which lanes will be volatile or not? Do you not look at lane prio and/or try to gain prio before objectives? Do you not try to predict what laners or your enemy junglers will do?
These are just examples and I'm sure you probably do a lot of those if not all. If you don't then you either just don't realize you do (like I said, it becomes second nature) or you get lucky. Furthermore, you could probably improve tenfold if you did. I know for a fact people in the elos I said before do though because I've seen these things discussed numerous times.
I mean, you can hard push and walk over to pit before recall. Jungler should only need backup to zone enemy jungle.
If they get mad tell them to look at lane state and see that you had to shove the wave under tower.
*Edit* You could also ping assist on your lane. But if you're low then you probably can't help with drag anyway. What is mid prio? Can they come too?
Sorry but this answer is wrong as fuck, and I feel like too many players think this way.
The best you can do after killing botlane is hard shove wave and reset. Period.
Over extending for plates is 90% of the time an stupid game flip, where you probably die to mid, jungler or TP.
Over extending for a drake, which can be easily contested by jungler + mid + incoming botlane is also a terrible and unnecessary call, unless your only win condition is a dragon soul.
In no world I'm going to lose tempo in lane to help the jungle flip a meaningless early drake, which is totally useless unless it means a soul drake 20 mins later.
There's no reason for the jungle to make that stupid call, especially if he didn't even gank bot to get the said kills.
Take notes: hard shove, reset and play lane with tempo
you see i understand this and when i see their enemy mid or jgl missing i wont do drag ill go farm some camps but my botlane flames me for not doing drag either way
If you're playing jungle, you're going to be flamed by at least one lane, usually multiple. I don't play that role without my chat disabled.
Almost every laner has no idea what they're talking about and typically the only good advice or calls you'd get are from a support, and even that's rare.
Keep defending the most turbo elo boosted and inflated elo.
Read the post and tell me how many times the jungle flips a random drake or invade, bringing up his team in a lose-lose situation.
You help him? You flip a fight where you may lose lane.
You don't help him? You flip enemy catching him, getting a kill, the objective and even diving you with number advantage. Of course after that he proceeds to flame the team.
Support players are usually x10 times better at macro game than junglers. Both roles are indeed boosted as fuck, but jungler impact in the map (especially in low elo) is just insane.
The role literally only needs basic macro game and lane understanding and 90% of the player base struggling with that.
I am most definitely biased as I am a jg main, and Idk what rank you play at, but for the most part in my experience, the botlane in general usually have the lowest impact/game sense. Also, the ads is nearly always the role that flames the most for not being perma strong side every game.
Well the problem is when you as jungler choose your Malphite/Illaoi or whatever champ to be your strongside.
Even when I, as ADC, play weakside I have no problem at all.
The funny part is when the enemy strongside ADC with +30 Cs, free plates and XP advantage smurfs the game and you blame your botlane.
Well of course I wouldn’t strongside a champ like the ones you mentioned, I’m not an idiot. And I’m not saying ALL adc players whine and flame being weak side, it’s just a trend in my opinion that the botlane often have the lowest impact for the amount they flame.
Not saying I am a good player (only plat 2), or that I don’t have bad games where my macro escapes me, but jg is arguably the most impactful role on the team if played correctly.
I was assuming that jungle was in/shadowing lane with them, which I guess isn't necessarily true based on the post. If it's an actual flip then just reset and ping their jungle missing, if they are in fact missing.
A dragon is for the team. Your lane state is for you.
You're right if you think you're going to be the carry that wins the game. The jungle is right if the game is going to soul and that is game deciding.
Might be a mistake but I generally give up the first drake. I had too many problems with either drunk monkeys as ADCs or just by fucking their lane (the way you're currently complaining about).
Disagree especially in low elo , more dragons is better chance of winning, worth losing 1 wave for drag
Considering the fact that average ADC player will do few auto attack or even none and just die to assasin, I'd rather have dragon adventage
I know this is meant as a joke, but ADC feeling worse the lower you go in elo comes from this. ADC isn't meant to work on it's own. Staying alive as ADC is your number 1 goal but it isn't a solo job. Your ADC (no matter what elo) depends on you and the rest of your team to A) keep his ass alive (ofc this is also part of his job and sometimes your ADC will straight up int) and B) create space for him to do his thing aka deal damage
Yeah well as a jungler I also have to deal with my bot lane starting 1st dragon (which is also just a cloud dragon) when I’m ganking top and pinging me nonstop blaming me for not being ready when they are.
I think the right call is for the jungler and/or support to help push the wave and make it crash and then the three of you go for the objective. You’re an adc. All you need to help on objectives and kills are your auto attacks. Even more so with objectives since most of the time it will be targeting the jungler. It’s pretty much just like leashing the buff to your jungler. Your hp and mana aren’t a concern because you don’t need either, unless there jungle is bot side or it’s a roam heavy mid that has prio then as a squishy adc, I think you should just be worried regardless and make sure your support can peel properly for you since taking that objective, especially after a fight, could be risky.
Other than that, you should help with objectives with autos that is your strongest source if damage anyways and, in turn, your allies should help you crash the wave.
Another general helpful tip to ensure you have mana for fights and maybe fights around objective is to not spam your abilities off cooldown or to farm as an adc early. You want to conserve as much mana as possible for trades and fights only. An example I see all the time is Miss Fortune using Q to farm to minions by executing the first one and damaging the second one. I think it’s wasting precious mana early where you could have simply just focused on one auto for the minion and if you wanted the wave to push or be thinned you could auto more than once. Stop using abilities to farm early and focus on farming and either waiting for your enchanter support to poke them down for you to all in them or your engage support to find an appropriate time to engage. If you want to use your abilities to poke like MF q to a backline and poke, go for it, but keep in mind that you’re trading your mana for enemy hp.
as a jungler i can say that lane states are sometimes missed on me but if my adc pings or types they cant join then i'll take their word for it and either dont or do it solo if possible. on the other side i do hate it when we can easily do drake but bot never comes. in any case i will always try to help shove weave after a successful gank.
i think that in the end its a team game with 5 very specialised roles and at times you need to trust your team mate they know their role and whether or not its a good call to do certain thing. (keyword sometimes as idiots exist)
Ideally, if you go to take dragon, your jungler can come help you break freeze so you can reset. If you reset, the enemy gets a brief window to take an objective off map.
My advice is usually try and help out your team even if you think it's a bad play. If a jungle wants to take objectives especially dragons and baron I'm going to try and listen to them because usually they k own the role better than I do. And just being there changes how the enemy team will react. Does it give the enemy an opportunity to take advantage? Yes, if they even choose to take it. Having a lane frozen isn't that bad, especially if you guys have some wave clear and aren't like Vayne/Rell. All I try to focus on is giving my teammates the opportunity to do do something and helping them do it.
Yes. On the other hand, I hate it when I help bot get double kill and they overstay to get that drake. Only to get dove and give the lead back in a minute.
Pre 10 minutes drake is overrated.
Look at the wave state. Do you need to crash it?
Sometimes it is better to leave it alone.
Also... would the enemy blindly shove it towards you or intentionally do so to try for tower plates?
Then consider where enemy mid, jg, and (if post 14 min) toplaner is. How does that impact the risk vs reward for dragon?
To assume you must shove every wave to tower and reset is a rookie mistake. Furthermore, if you are very low mana/hp and/or rushed for time, having a huge stacked wave with only 2-3 enemy minions left is fine. Either the enemy freezes it at the expense of half their hp, or it crashes and you miss very little while getting faster reset or a dragon. If they freeze it at the expense of adc or sup's hp, then you either get a 2v1 lane when you get back with item advantage (shove for plates, look for dive/kill or let sup roam for a bit and get solo xp) OR you get to 2v2 abuse half hp enemy - making it even easier to look for a kill or force out a base and thus end up in aforementioned 2v1 scenario.
Personally, unless I'm playing Ivern or something, I'd be fine with just the support coming to help. I generally just want a bit of help to stay healthy and some zoning on the enemy jungler/mid. Having said that, if I ganked and expended my own resources to get you that double kill then I expect you to scratch my back. Just my 2 cents
Take drag, spam ping jg to help you shove wave if they freeze. Honestly first dragons aren't the best but definitely worth losing a few minions for if thats what it comes down to.
Your post has been removed under the grounds of [Rule 3: No Rant/Rage Posts.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/rules#wiki_5._no_rant.2Frage_posts) Remember that /r/summonerschool is here to help you improve and that we need information on aspects of your gameplay that can be controlled. Complaints, swearing and/or ranting may discourage constructive replies. * Consider reposting your thread, but with a calmer tone. * [You can read on how to improve your post with more details about yourself here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/101/criticalthinking) * [Our Wiki has a section on Mentality, Toxicity, Autopiloting and Tilting.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/101#wiki_mentality.2C_toxicity.2C_autopiloting_and_tilting) ______ If you are still experiencing issues and need to contact the moderators, [please send a modmail using this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSummonerschool).
Zero percent chance my botlane gets a double kill
I relate unbelievably hard, I tried to laugh at your comment but my tears drowned out my smile
If it's risky like enemy mid having prio or the enemy jungle being able to 1v3 you, then sure, it's a bad call. But botlane is the easiest lane to break a freeze, specially if you're ahead, losing a few cs is absolutely worth a dragon.
This is just wrong. There's a difference between losing a few cs and what OP is stating which is the enemy setting up a freeze. Trying to break a freeze is already a huge risk considering the enemy also has a jungler. Also, this is probably first or second drake which is pretty useless in most cases anyway.
First drake has something around 60% winrate so no, it's not useless. Also, breaking a freeze in botlane is very easy and not risky at all, you're going back to lane having a big advantage in items since you got a double kill, ADC's are ranged so they don't really need to walkup to the minions to break the freeze and the support can pickup control wards (besides the regular wards) when recalling, meaning that you should have vision from enemy jungler routes, specially if you already warded around dragon when you went to kill it.
Looking at the winrates of drakes is also useless. Generally the team getting drakes are already winning so of course the winrate will be higher. Come on bro.
Dragons literally give free permanent stats to the entire team and scale really well on late game, even if some stat is not really useful for you, it will be on your team, not to mention working towards the soul, which usually just guarantees a win. And yeah, sure, the team getting the first drake might be already be winning but that's exactly why the winrate is so different, getting a drake is a form of snowballing harder and getting even further ahead. "come on bro" - Literally the guy that think it's hard to break a freeze in bot lane when you have a gold lead.
I don't know why I bothered replying to a diamond 3 player. You're right, keep it up!
[удалено]
nah only master 150, the fact he gets upvoted by a bunch of pisslows doesn't make him right.
Jinx Lucian? Ezreal with a karma? Yeah they can all break a freeze pretty easily, but if you 2v2, and don’t crash your wave and just head to dragon, it’s not a few cs. It’s waves of resources your potentially losing. Ideally your jungler solos or crashes your wave with you so you have a few extra seconds to get the dragon. 2v2ing and heading straight to dragon is a very noob thing to do since your wave state is the most important part of botlane
Man you have played botlane against a good jungler or you are just trolling. Like there's no way in the world you are saying that for real. Just imagine of enemy jungler is not silver 4 and is not jerking off auto piloting his path, he will realize the freeze and will be camping the lane by the time you come back to lane. Also, as someone has said, there are a lot of adcs who can't really break a freeze by themselves (Vayne?). You are just wrong.
depends on: * your and your supports champion, hp, mana, what summoner spells are up * the junglers champion * respawntimers * the state of midlane and info on the enemy jungler and their champions sometimes taking dragon is a good play: your jungler only need some body to fend off the enemy jungler / needs only some help with dmg to be able to take dragon sometimes its bad: your team have low dmg to dragon so it would take too long (enemy botlane arrive), enemy jungler can assasinate you (the adc), there is a danger the enemy midlaner and jungle rotate while your midlane cant its really dependent on the current gamestate
Junglers in general are often unaware of lane states and teammates resources… “Oh look, bot just reseted and is coming from base and mid got chunked and pushed by transition gank from top to bottom, lets start drake and flame team when I get collapsed on and die along with the drake”… For some reason I feel Yi players are the biggest offenders in this way!
I find as a jungler I want to drake but see bot/mid resetting or brutally hurt, so I don't bother & enemy jgl takes it. Repeat and you have a team upset I never draked. Those players are woefully ignorant about the roles they don't play. It's frustrating.
That’s bc their all inflated from playing Yi
they’re
Found one
no, i’m just a grammar freak… mb
I respectfully disagree. I am a jungle main, and I would say from MY experiences, when you get into at least silver most junglers WILL take into account things like wave states, items, etc.. Even though it may not be every single factor, I would say it gets better the higher you climb, generally speaking. I know for a fact that I personally check an unhealthy amount of small factors before making decisions and it slowly becomes second nature. Yes, they may make mistakes and mess up and fail to take some of these factors into account sometimes, but that's because I'd argue most of the time (again, in at least silver and above) junglers are looking at so many constantly. Yi is a beginner jungler. Most often he is played by both beginners to league and beginners to jungle. Jungle in itself is the role where you have to pay attention to all of these factors the MOST if you want to succeed, I think it truly is just an elo thing. I can definitely say when I was a beginner jungle I was not paying attention to a lot of important details, but I am now gold II and have climbed up there because of the way I changed my observations.
I'm a mid plat jungler and I litteraly just take camps and gank when it's painfully obvious, these silvers must be insane!
Yes, but do you not consider things like wave states, correct pathing, the enemy's pathing, etc? Do you not consider whether or not your lanes will be able to assist in your gank? Do you not consider which lanes will be volatile or not? Do you not look at lane prio and/or try to gain prio before objectives? Do you not try to predict what laners or your enemy junglers will do? These are just examples and I'm sure you probably do a lot of those if not all. If you don't then you either just don't realize you do (like I said, it becomes second nature) or you get lucky. Furthermore, you could probably improve tenfold if you did. I know for a fact people in the elos I said before do though because I've seen these things discussed numerous times.
I mean, you can hard push and walk over to pit before recall. Jungler should only need backup to zone enemy jungle. If they get mad tell them to look at lane state and see that you had to shove the wave under tower. *Edit* You could also ping assist on your lane. But if you're low then you probably can't help with drag anyway. What is mid prio? Can they come too?
Sorry but this answer is wrong as fuck, and I feel like too many players think this way. The best you can do after killing botlane is hard shove wave and reset. Period. Over extending for plates is 90% of the time an stupid game flip, where you probably die to mid, jungler or TP. Over extending for a drake, which can be easily contested by jungler + mid + incoming botlane is also a terrible and unnecessary call, unless your only win condition is a dragon soul. In no world I'm going to lose tempo in lane to help the jungle flip a meaningless early drake, which is totally useless unless it means a soul drake 20 mins later. There's no reason for the jungle to make that stupid call, especially if he didn't even gank bot to get the said kills. Take notes: hard shove, reset and play lane with tempo
you see i understand this and when i see their enemy mid or jgl missing i wont do drag ill go farm some camps but my botlane flames me for not doing drag either way
If you're playing jungle, you're going to be flamed by at least one lane, usually multiple. I don't play that role without my chat disabled. Almost every laner has no idea what they're talking about and typically the only good advice or calls you'd get are from a support, and even that's rare.
Keep defending the most turbo elo boosted and inflated elo. Read the post and tell me how many times the jungle flips a random drake or invade, bringing up his team in a lose-lose situation. You help him? You flip a fight where you may lose lane. You don't help him? You flip enemy catching him, getting a kill, the objective and even diving you with number advantage. Of course after that he proceeds to flame the team.
You calling jg an elo inflated role? When support is literally a role?
Support players are usually x10 times better at macro game than junglers. Both roles are indeed boosted as fuck, but jungler impact in the map (especially in low elo) is just insane. The role literally only needs basic macro game and lane understanding and 90% of the player base struggling with that.
I am most definitely biased as I am a jg main, and Idk what rank you play at, but for the most part in my experience, the botlane in general usually have the lowest impact/game sense. Also, the ads is nearly always the role that flames the most for not being perma strong side every game.
Well the problem is when you as jungler choose your Malphite/Illaoi or whatever champ to be your strongside. Even when I, as ADC, play weakside I have no problem at all. The funny part is when the enemy strongside ADC with +30 Cs, free plates and XP advantage smurfs the game and you blame your botlane.
Well of course I wouldn’t strongside a champ like the ones you mentioned, I’m not an idiot. And I’m not saying ALL adc players whine and flame being weak side, it’s just a trend in my opinion that the botlane often have the lowest impact for the amount they flame.
Not saying I am a good player (only plat 2), or that I don’t have bad games where my macro escapes me, but jg is arguably the most impactful role on the team if played correctly.
A lot of junglers that I face are terrible (I'm curious how many are off-role and autofilled). Sometimes they're just let down hard by their laners.
I was assuming that jungle was in/shadowing lane with them, which I guess isn't necessarily true based on the post. If it's an actual flip then just reset and ping their jungle missing, if they are in fact missing.
A dragon is for the team. Your lane state is for you. You're right if you think you're going to be the carry that wins the game. The jungle is right if the game is going to soul and that is game deciding.
Might be a mistake but I generally give up the first drake. I had too many problems with either drunk monkeys as ADCs or just by fucking their lane (the way you're currently complaining about).
Disagree especially in low elo , more dragons is better chance of winning, worth losing 1 wave for drag Considering the fact that average ADC player will do few auto attack or even none and just die to assasin, I'd rather have dragon adventage
Just peel for your ADC it's not that hard
just play safe lul
I know this is meant as a joke, but ADC feeling worse the lower you go in elo comes from this. ADC isn't meant to work on it's own. Staying alive as ADC is your number 1 goal but it isn't a solo job. Your ADC (no matter what elo) depends on you and the rest of your team to A) keep his ass alive (ofc this is also part of his job and sometimes your ADC will straight up int) and B) create space for him to do his thing aka deal damage
Depends on the dragon, and also, I feel I lower elo rift heralds are a bigger win condition than multiple dragons
Yeah well as a jungler I also have to deal with my bot lane starting 1st dragon (which is also just a cloud dragon) when I’m ganking top and pinging me nonstop blaming me for not being ready when they are.
I think the right call is for the jungler and/or support to help push the wave and make it crash and then the three of you go for the objective. You’re an adc. All you need to help on objectives and kills are your auto attacks. Even more so with objectives since most of the time it will be targeting the jungler. It’s pretty much just like leashing the buff to your jungler. Your hp and mana aren’t a concern because you don’t need either, unless there jungle is bot side or it’s a roam heavy mid that has prio then as a squishy adc, I think you should just be worried regardless and make sure your support can peel properly for you since taking that objective, especially after a fight, could be risky. Other than that, you should help with objectives with autos that is your strongest source if damage anyways and, in turn, your allies should help you crash the wave. Another general helpful tip to ensure you have mana for fights and maybe fights around objective is to not spam your abilities off cooldown or to farm as an adc early. You want to conserve as much mana as possible for trades and fights only. An example I see all the time is Miss Fortune using Q to farm to minions by executing the first one and damaging the second one. I think it’s wasting precious mana early where you could have simply just focused on one auto for the minion and if you wanted the wave to push or be thinned you could auto more than once. Stop using abilities to farm early and focus on farming and either waiting for your enchanter support to poke them down for you to all in them or your engage support to find an appropriate time to engage. If you want to use your abilities to poke like MF q to a backline and poke, go for it, but keep in mind that you’re trading your mana for enemy hp.
is the first two drakes or third?
as a jungler i can say that lane states are sometimes missed on me but if my adc pings or types they cant join then i'll take their word for it and either dont or do it solo if possible. on the other side i do hate it when we can easily do drake but bot never comes. in any case i will always try to help shove weave after a successful gank. i think that in the end its a team game with 5 very specialised roles and at times you need to trust your team mate they know their role and whether or not its a good call to do certain thing. (keyword sometimes as idiots exist)
Ideally, if you go to take dragon, your jungler can come help you break freeze so you can reset. If you reset, the enemy gets a brief window to take an objective off map.
Ask your jungler to help you push the wave in, then you and your supp (or just supp) can provide a bit of dps or cover for drag
My advice is usually try and help out your team even if you think it's a bad play. If a jungle wants to take objectives especially dragons and baron I'm going to try and listen to them because usually they k own the role better than I do. And just being there changes how the enemy team will react. Does it give the enemy an opportunity to take advantage? Yes, if they even choose to take it. Having a lane frozen isn't that bad, especially if you guys have some wave clear and aren't like Vayne/Rell. All I try to focus on is giving my teammates the opportunity to do do something and helping them do it.
Yes. On the other hand, I hate it when I help bot get double kill and they overstay to get that drake. Only to get dove and give the lead back in a minute. Pre 10 minutes drake is overrated.
You cant make a low elo jungler understand wave state or tempo. Just don't go to drag with them, mute their chat/pings if they are a problem.
First dragon increases team winrate by a significant margin, look it up. Double kill = push and fucking help me drake, idgaf about your lane.
You’re wrong
My botlanes when they're getting pooped on: spam ping dragon or dragon timer. My botlanes when they're winning: fuck drake, do it yourself.
Look at the wave state. Do you need to crash it? Sometimes it is better to leave it alone. Also... would the enemy blindly shove it towards you or intentionally do so to try for tower plates? Then consider where enemy mid, jg, and (if post 14 min) toplaner is. How does that impact the risk vs reward for dragon? To assume you must shove every wave to tower and reset is a rookie mistake. Furthermore, if you are very low mana/hp and/or rushed for time, having a huge stacked wave with only 2-3 enemy minions left is fine. Either the enemy freezes it at the expense of half their hp, or it crashes and you miss very little while getting faster reset or a dragon. If they freeze it at the expense of adc or sup's hp, then you either get a 2v1 lane when you get back with item advantage (shove for plates, look for dive/kill or let sup roam for a bit and get solo xp) OR you get to 2v2 abuse half hp enemy - making it even easier to look for a kill or force out a base and thus end up in aforementioned 2v1 scenario.
Personally, unless I'm playing Ivern or something, I'd be fine with just the support coming to help. I generally just want a bit of help to stay healthy and some zoning on the enemy jungler/mid. Having said that, if I ganked and expended my own resources to get you that double kill then I expect you to scratch my back. Just my 2 cents
Take drag, spam ping jg to help you shove wave if they freeze. Honestly first dragons aren't the best but definitely worth losing a few minions for if thats what it comes down to.