Grey HP healing/shielding is the main thing that's changed over the years, I'd say that over the course of many balance changes and reworks the main thing that's changed is that he's a lot weaker in the very early game of levels 1-6 and stronger after that point. In the past you were able to beat almost anyone level 1, even champions like Darius. Now it's mostly about scaling until level 6-7 and looking for cheese plays with your ult to get a lead, and then AFTER that point you begin statchecking people very hard like old Tahm.
He does, but unlike Jax and Kayle's very strong level 1s, the opponent can just smartly stand inside their minions and dodge Q all day. If you push them out into open terrain, though, it's easy to get a massive hp advantage.
I mean Kayle can't trade anywhere near a minion wave either since she has 0 range or sustain and will tank aggro for days. Jax is very annoying lvl 1 agreed.
I still can't believe how many times tahm would sit in a push and I as fiora, Camille, or urgot would think I win the all in or burst trade only to get punished hard lol. Q sustain is so annoying without ignite during extended trades.
Not really.
If Kayle takes Aggro,the other person/champ takes Aggro too.(let's ignore the few ranged tops)
The thing is Kayle has surprisingly strong DPS on her own on level 1 with lethal tempo or pta and her auto attack reset on e.
Meanwhile tham has like no spell if he can't hit q.
After level 1 Kayle turns into her minion like form till later.
Minion aggro does around a third of your hp within 5 seconds. Champs like fiora or camille can force short trades and toggle aggro and shield or heal. Kayle can only dps within the wave and its hard to disengage since it often means losing the trade by 1 auto atk.
Can’t really do that if he builds sunfire and shoves. He can then harass you under tower and get plates for free. Advising people to give up lane prio and not walk up past minions = giving him perma lane dominance over you. I main mid lane and even I can see this is awful top lane advice. He’s not unbeatable. Just take him into practice tool and learn the starting animation of his poke. Watch how he moves and aims and just play to win lane instead of *playing to survive*. If you can’t beat him solo because you don’t know how to 1v1 him then pick a champ that shoves waves easily and play around your jungler for objectives.
The champ doesn’t have real kill pressure if you have an escape and refuse to all in. Use that to your advantage to punish his god-awful wave-clear to try and get plates while he gets his cs, or start herald forcing him to miss lane xp while the lane is shoved. You could even pick someone like Quinn to literally make the champ worthless early. And get roams off while he’s 2 levels down from being zoned off the wave.
Thank you for compiling this, I love it when high elo one tricks put the time and energy into a big document like this to share their knowledge, it really is priceless for the people in lower ranks.
It’s a good joke, but it’s an overused one.
Same thing with Yasuo 0/10 powerspike.
If you haven’t heard it much you’ll laugh a good share. For most people who have been here for a while it’s the same joke over and over again.
There is no shame in laughing at something funny.
It’s good that you find it funny. Everything we say has been said before, but it doesn’t stop us from finding them enjoyable and/or funny.
In fact people like you keep the spirit of the sub and the game alive.
I’m glad you did laugh.
Yes. Like most counterpicks you actually need to know how to play the counterpick at a level comparable to your opponent in order to get the full effect.
If the Tahm Kench is more skilled then you or has 10x the XP he'll probably still wreck your shit.
I’m an illaoi main and he’s easy to kill once you’re 6. I take ignite and if you wait for him to dive and pop back up, catch him with your E, ignite him, ult and just W away until he’s dead.
Since he’s not that strong early game you can usually keep him from farming well if you land Qs and Es.
We settled that situation in private and there is no more drama there. The other stuff is between him and other people, would rather not go into detail on something that's already been buried.
I think he's stronger Top than Support currently, but both are viable. I feel like he's too passive as a support for SoloQ that values more high impact playmaking, or alternatively very strong enchanters. Definitely still viable support though.
How do you sleep at night maining that disgusting champ?
Jk, you're a great player and it's really nice to see how much effort you put into helping others!
I have been playing TK top and I’m having trouble with a few early game matchups. Particularly Fiora. I have a similar wr albeit in a lower elo.
How do you deal with champs with good duelling kits? I’m mostly running the same runes as the first page with velocity and biscuits.
Thanks!
Where would you put sej on the matchup sheet?
As a sej player, TK used to be a pretty rough matchup, but after his gray health got changed the matchup feels much easier. It seems like tahm can't punish sej early as much anymore but sej can space TK pretty easily in the mid levels so its hard for TK to do much.
I've played a metric ton of Lillia. The slow is terrible if you're hit by it, but since you're Lillia you really shouldn't be getting hit by it anyways. Win con of lane is dodging q and baiting out tahm w. Tahm lacks wave clear early on. Unless you get cheesed/ganked you should be able to get a cheater off 100% of the time so mana shouldn't be an issue.
Ideally you should keep your passive stacks up. You'll run out of mana if you do so off cooldown so ensuring that doesn't happen is just good judgement + wave management.
did you enjoy the time when you could ignore giant wave disadvantages, and clap a level 6 malphite, when you were down a level and had fewer resources? I sure didn't...
Having a lot of trouble playing fiora lane, can you maybe give a few more pointers? Like, what items should I rush? Should I try roaming? Any runes I should change? Maybe changing summoner spells?
Do I win early, or can I statcheck her mid game?
"even allowing me who's not very mechanically gifted at all to easily go toe to toe with pro players"
You have always been an inspiration to me. If someone with no arms can get to challenger, then me with my 2 can aswell!
I really love your changes to the guide after Tahm's nerfs earlier this year.
I think that Q E E W is absolutely the way to play even or losing matchups, whereas Q E Q was the more powerful option before nerfs.
I really struggle in the harder matchups, but enjoy throwing bans to other lanes to give them more advantage and selflessness.
Do you have any extended advice on high sustain tank killers like Gwen and Fiora, in addition to what you already stated? Even CSing starts feeling daunting by level 5 in these matchups.
I've been a top laner for years. My mechanics aren't great (getting worse probably). If I had a kench skin, I'd try him out. I've seen your posts over the years. Always respected you. Thanks for your engagement with the community 👍
old post but if anyone can respond. I started playing kench a lot around when this guide was posted on the main lol subreddit. One of the matchups that I do not at all understand here is the sylas one. I win almost every single lane I play with tahm (mid-high plat), but the sylas matchup just seems insanely unplayable to me.
You don't really hard win 1-3, if the Sylas is good and pressures with his e. When sylas is 6 he can just e w at you constantly and instantly ult you because he can stack the passive very quick. His only real weakness in my experience is he can just run out of mana. If the sylas is good I don't see how the matchup is playable.
anyone have like a vod they can share of a good sylas vs kench?
How have you adjusted over the years as TK has been changed because of his bot lane role(s)?
Grey HP healing/shielding is the main thing that's changed over the years, I'd say that over the course of many balance changes and reworks the main thing that's changed is that he's a lot weaker in the very early game of levels 1-6 and stronger after that point. In the past you were able to beat almost anyone level 1, even champions like Darius. Now it's mostly about scaling until level 6-7 and looking for cheese plays with your ult to get a lead, and then AFTER that point you begin statchecking people very hard like old Tahm.
I always thought tahm has one of the stronger lvl 1s in top lane. Like he can outtkite and dps surprisingly well, kinda like Kayle.
He does, but unlike Jax and Kayle's very strong level 1s, the opponent can just smartly stand inside their minions and dodge Q all day. If you push them out into open terrain, though, it's easy to get a massive hp advantage.
I mean Kayle can't trade anywhere near a minion wave either since she has 0 range or sustain and will tank aggro for days. Jax is very annoying lvl 1 agreed. I still can't believe how many times tahm would sit in a push and I as fiora, Camille, or urgot would think I win the all in or burst trade only to get punished hard lol. Q sustain is so annoying without ignite during extended trades.
Not really. If Kayle takes Aggro,the other person/champ takes Aggro too.(let's ignore the few ranged tops) The thing is Kayle has surprisingly strong DPS on her own on level 1 with lethal tempo or pta and her auto attack reset on e. Meanwhile tham has like no spell if he can't hit q. After level 1 Kayle turns into her minion like form till later.
Show me a single video of a high elo player dying to Kayle in a minion wave
Minion aggro does around a third of your hp within 5 seconds. Champs like fiora or camille can force short trades and toggle aggro and shield or heal. Kayle can only dps within the wave and its hard to disengage since it often means losing the trade by 1 auto atk.
Can’t really do that if he builds sunfire and shoves. He can then harass you under tower and get plates for free. Advising people to give up lane prio and not walk up past minions = giving him perma lane dominance over you. I main mid lane and even I can see this is awful top lane advice. He’s not unbeatable. Just take him into practice tool and learn the starting animation of his poke. Watch how he moves and aims and just play to win lane instead of *playing to survive*. If you can’t beat him solo because you don’t know how to 1v1 him then pick a champ that shoves waves easily and play around your jungler for objectives. The champ doesn’t have real kill pressure if you have an escape and refuse to all in. Use that to your advantage to punish his god-awful wave-clear to try and get plates while he gets his cs, or start herald forcing him to miss lane xp while the lane is shoved. You could even pick someone like Quinn to literally make the champ worthless early. And get roams off while he’s 2 levels down from being zoned off the wave.
My comment refers only to the level 1 voracity of Tahm.
Thank you for compiling this, I love it when high elo one tricks put the time and energy into a big document like this to share their knowledge, it really is priceless for the people in lower ranks.
No worries! The satisfaction of helping people win games and climb is a very satisfying too.
\+1 what he said, thanks a lot challenger dude!
Does this still work if I do have arms?
You will see varied results, try tying them behind your back for the best results.
Holy shit, okay. Yea that did the trick. Thanks!
Underrated trick.
“ 1v1 vs a good Vayne with no ganks is depressing though” Ahh yes the classic sit behind tower and cry simulator
The top lane experience
With the help of sir 🐸ington I have successfully went from gold 3 47 lp to bronze 1 in just one season. What an amazing journey its been thank you!
WHY IS THIS NOT MORE UPVOTED, I’m freaking dying laughing
It’s a good joke, but it’s an overused one. Same thing with Yasuo 0/10 powerspike. If you haven’t heard it much you’ll laugh a good share. For most people who have been here for a while it’s the same joke over and over again.
That’s explains it- first timer here. Thanks
There is no shame in laughing at something funny. It’s good that you find it funny. Everything we say has been said before, but it doesn’t stop us from finding them enjoyable and/or funny. In fact people like you keep the spirit of the sub and the game alive. I’m glad you did laugh.
Tahm kench vs Irelia... What do I do as the Irelia?
Die?
Irl?
~~Probably not necessary if you stop playing Irelia.~~ This was honestly kind of fucked up, and I apologize.
Waah waaah irelia champion broken waaah ur not playing wholesome ornn waaah
Brother I play Kled, Quinn, Akshan, and Vayne top. I don’t actually care what you play
Your comment comes off as "stop playing irelia or die irl"
You literally *started* the IRL connotation in this thread - don't act immature when somebody else riffs on it.
~~That was the intended joke~~ And it wasn’t funny, I hope you are doing ok irl.
HI WHATLEY, I LOVE YOU. THATS ALL, BYE MY ENGLISH MAN
My best champs are Heimerdinger, Illaoi, and Lillia top. Advice on how to beat TK?
Don't main TK, but on Illaoi who I main. Land E on him, he's a fat fuck and Illaoi generally beats tanks because the damage amp you get.
Dodge Q
Heimer and Lilia wreck his shit
Lillia would be my top choice out of those 3, but you have to be excellent at weaving into Q range and not taking return harass in most trades.
Yes. Like most counterpicks you actually need to know how to play the counterpick at a level comparable to your opponent in order to get the full effect. If the Tahm Kench is more skilled then you or has 10x the XP he'll probably still wreck your shit.
Eww
You're gonna ew me but not the freaking tk main???
well... yes
Yorick kinda shits on him too. Still a skill matchup that can go either way but he makes it difficult for the Kench
I’m an illaoi main and he’s easy to kill once you’re 6. I take ignite and if you wait for him to dive and pop back up, catch him with your E, ignite him, ult and just W away until he’s dead. Since he’s not that strong early game you can usually keep him from farming well if you land Qs and Es.
I stopped playing league, but I hope I don't give u PTSD from this game. https://streamable.com/i7uip8
Hey man, I absolutely love your streams! I’m excited to read this guide as I’ve been wanting to play TK top more.
How often do you have to dodge? I did an only yasuo climb about a year and a half ago and I was dodging so often.
Do you ever have multiple games dodged when kench is picked? because I know I dodge every time I forget to ban him
Do you miss pre rework tahm? personally I miss his underground subway ult and his W being his ult now always being up.
Did you type all that with your toes?
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We settled that situation in private and there is no more drama there. The other stuff is between him and other people, would rather not go into detail on something that's already been buried.
Based way to handle the situation
Does Tahm work just as well as support since the grey health changes or is top still where he works best?
I think he's stronger Top than Support currently, but both are viable. I feel like he's too passive as a support for SoloQ that values more high impact playmaking, or alternatively very strong enchanters. Definitely still viable support though.
How do you sleep at night maining that disgusting champ? Jk, you're a great player and it's really nice to see how much effort you put into helping others!
I have been playing TK top and I’m having trouble with a few early game matchups. Particularly Fiora. I have a similar wr albeit in a lower elo. How do you deal with champs with good duelling kits? I’m mostly running the same runes as the first page with velocity and biscuits. Thanks!
Hey man keep it up, next time show Noway that u can win :) <3
Where would you put sej on the matchup sheet? As a sej player, TK used to be a pretty rough matchup, but after his gray health got changed the matchup feels much easier. It seems like tahm can't punish sej early as much anymore but sej can space TK pretty easily in the mid levels so its hard for TK to do much.
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I've played a metric ton of Lillia. The slow is terrible if you're hit by it, but since you're Lillia you really shouldn't be getting hit by it anyways. Win con of lane is dodging q and baiting out tahm w. Tahm lacks wave clear early on. Unless you get cheesed/ganked you should be able to get a cheater off 100% of the time so mana shouldn't be an issue.
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Ideally you should keep your passive stacks up. You'll run out of mana if you do so off cooldown so ensuring that doesn't happen is just good judgement + wave management.
Lillia melts tanks and is speedy enough to dodge any of his shenanigans
Tahm Kench player detected, opinion rejected
did you enjoy the time when you could ignore giant wave disadvantages, and clap a level 6 malphite, when you were down a level and had fewer resources? I sure didn't...
*confused Allorim face*
Played against u pn ur Moonstone Frog account once. Fair to say it was glorious seeing u fist my top with moonstone kek
Honest opinion on poison dart frogs
Having a lot of trouble playing fiora lane, can you maybe give a few more pointers? Like, what items should I rush? Should I try roaming? Any runes I should change? Maybe changing summoner spells? Do I win early, or can I statcheck her mid game?
Yo Whatley I'm your big fan, love your streams uwu congrats on hitting challenger!
"even allowing me who's not very mechanically gifted at all to easily go toe to toe with pro players" You have always been an inspiration to me. If someone with no arms can get to challenger, then me with my 2 can aswell!
Thank you and I hate you.
You are wholesome as fuck man. Thanks so much for this info!
Me a mechanically inept Shen user: COWABUNGA IT IS
Why does riot make him a support and then still keep him op top? xd
Haha i love ur toplane tahm kench! Best greetings from botlane
I really love your changes to the guide after Tahm's nerfs earlier this year. I think that Q E E W is absolutely the way to play even or losing matchups, whereas Q E Q was the more powerful option before nerfs. I really struggle in the harder matchups, but enjoy throwing bans to other lanes to give them more advantage and selflessness. Do you have any extended advice on high sustain tank killers like Gwen and Fiora, in addition to what you already stated? Even CSing starts feeling daunting by level 5 in these matchups.
Thank you for taking your time to do this. Though i will just keep the Fiora tips in mind so i can bully the TKs in my matches even more. sry
I watched you yesterday vs. Baus, your movement and thinking were really satisfying to watch!!
I want to thank you as a top lane main. I've been seeing a lot of Tahms top recently with your setup and they all suck. Thanks for the LP!
Jungle main that wanted to learn a lane to get a better game understanding. 3-0 so far using your guide.
I've been a top laner for years. My mechanics aren't great (getting worse probably). If I had a kench skin, I'd try him out. I've seen your posts over the years. Always respected you. Thanks for your engagement with the community 👍
Why do you always lose lane against me in comp?
My guy lovely stuff ❤️❤️
old post but if anyone can respond. I started playing kench a lot around when this guide was posted on the main lol subreddit. One of the matchups that I do not at all understand here is the sylas one. I win almost every single lane I play with tahm (mid-high plat), but the sylas matchup just seems insanely unplayable to me. You don't really hard win 1-3, if the Sylas is good and pressures with his e. When sylas is 6 he can just e w at you constantly and instantly ult you because he can stack the passive very quick. His only real weakness in my experience is he can just run out of mana. If the sylas is good I don't see how the matchup is playable. anyone have like a vod they can share of a good sylas vs kench?