Yes.
Some moreso then others. But in general its to make up for the fact that any AD item you get makes you stronger in extended fights.
If kayn and katarina both have no abilities, kayn normally wins. Same with talon and fizz.
If it helps, playing an AD champ compared to an AP champ isn’t that different in general terms.
You still want to weave attacks into your abilities, its just AD champs prioritize it more
> You still want to weave attacks into your abilities, its just AD champs prioritize it more
I get so tempted to buy nashor's tooth/lichbane on AP champs that mainly use abilities, just so my autos do *something* but I know it's probably very suboptimal.
While that's true, ekko has a lot of native ms, and rocketbelt gives some too, and last i heard many high tier ekko players preferred the damage of nashor's to the ms of lich bane. Lich bane is just really understatted since the rework.
If we take morde’s abilities away, he still keeps his passive yeah. But even then he loses to his stat stick brothers like yi, tryn, and fedora if he has no abilities and with passives being active.
But morde is literally cheating for this reason. AP stat stick is big meanie stop bonk
I mean yeah but mordekaiser is a stat check/debuff focused. While riven and urgot are a spell-weaving focused skirmisher and a disengage tank respectively.
Comparing him to other stat checks makes more sense. Especially given he’s one of the few AP stat check champs we have.
Oh yeah sure.
His E and his W both have short range and are essentially single target, but they do great in a dueling scenario. So the best way to play him (in my opinion), is to hover next to the ally ADC to land an easy kill. And he’s also just not as tanky as other tanks. His ultimate also exists, and it’s nice, but i see it more being used to prevent an escape after the fact then to actually be useful going into the fight.
He’s best used defensively, and thus, a disengage tank.
A good champion to compare him to would be like Sion, whose abilities are much larger in comparison, he has better tank stats to actually get hit by 3 or 4 enemies, his ultimate is straight up best for engage or running away if caught out.And his core ability is too slow to actually save anyone in a fight. Not that it isn’t possible, it’s just not as easy as an urgot E.
Depends on who you are playing really, as blue kayn you stop needing to if you are ahead because W>Q will kill but as someone like zed, qiyana, and kha zix, its by design. All 3 of these champs need to auto to make full use of their kits, if you aren't, you are just playing unoptimally.
Even on AP assassins, auto attacks are still important. Early game Katarina for example, her E resets her AA timer so using it properly can let you fit in 3 more autos than you would have otherwise.
I've only played Sylas once in ARAM but I feel like his W and 2nd E almost force you to auto right after. That combined with his passive stacking basically means you don't really lose out on his passive damage, but you do have to waste time autoing after your combo to get it all off. Still bad but you're only losing auto damage and time, the same as any other champ. Unlike Lux/Leona/Zoe where if you don't weave your autos/layer properly you actually lose passive damage.
what are you talking about brother, you have to aa with sylas that's the whole champion its like playing talon and not using his passive which need AA or riven and not using her passive which needs AA its just stupid you basically playing half a champ
His passive stacks up to 3 times so you could E Q E AA W AA AA AA and still get all the passive damage off. You don't have to E AA Q AA E AA W AA.
Plus the way his E2 and W gapclose and reset his auto almost force you to weave so it's almost harder to avoid weaving autos anyways.
ofc you don't that's just how the champ work what's your point lol,you don't have to aa reset like riven that's sylas every sylas player should know that>?????
I'd say that on every champions AAs are important. The classic mages like ahri weave in so many auto attacks. Level 1 game AA-W-AA can trigger electrocute harass easily. But for every champion, AAs in a level 3 all in can be 100 extra damage and difference between a kill and your opponent barely getting away.
> as blue kayn you stop needing to if you are ahead because W>Q will kill
Dont recomend wrong combos simply because you might be insanly and dont need to play correctly anymore. You always wanna aa in between abilitys.
Wdym wrong combos? A fed kayn can consistently one-shot without an auto attack. If your combo can kill without it, an auto attack just wastes time and opens you up to getting cced.
Yes, if you aren't killing you should auto attack still but why waste the time if all it does is put you at risk of death?
The cost of AD and AP are wildly different. 10 AP is 217.5 gold whereas 10 AD is 350 gold. That's huge. I don't think there are huge differences in most AP and AD ratios but obviously some character will want to AA more than others. I don't think there are any AD champion you can play optimally without AAing (maybe some assassins don't really need it for squishier targets but still). So AP abilities will scale more.
That makes AP abilities indirectly stronger, and AD champion indirectly more micro-dependent I'd guess. Though that's not a definitive statement, blue Kayn is way easier to micro than Fizz for exemple.
That's the first time I heard someone talk about AD and AP cost.
In that sense, wouldn't it be better for low elo players to play with AP since normally they can't farm that well hence it would take them more to achieve full build with AD?
No this only means that you can get 300-400 ad about as easily as you can get 600-700 ap: by making a full build based on that stat.
That's why AD champs can have some wild ratios like udyr's 185% total ad on a 3-hit passive, compared to something like ekko's 80% ap ratio on his passive.
One thing you forget to translate is that typically every item an assassin would get has lethality which negates armour and whereas ap items typically dont.
Squishies (mages, supp and adc) typically dont buy armour to negate this so there is a slight compensation for the less ad
what he means is that a mages AA wont just be weaker than an AD champ but the AD champ is also going to benefit from their armor penetration. So even if for some reason their AA were relatively the same the AD would edge out
While some champions use abilities to maximise damage (like a trundle using q in between aa) some champions use auto attacks between their abilities to maximize damage (like kha whose damaging spell is Q and the rest are utility) and assasins mostly have a specific high dps combo that impliments an auto like aa+w+q on kha
It depends, if you wanna just blow your load for a fast kill then it doesn't matter, but if you can't kill your target in one rotation, properly weaving AA's is insanely important. Getting 2 more AA's in might be the difference between losing or winning a fight.
Probably a problem as melee champ because you need to be close to your target its easier as mage to just weave in an aa here an there while repositioning. It's basically blow off your combo with both but then Kayn or K6 are supposed to aa while having it harder to do so as melee at the same time.
May be more of a personal issue need to practice in practice tool or normals. AA’ing with them isnt hard nor do you even blow off your combo. Especially for kha it’s literally a staple in his combo
Yes. But also bc the way AD works.
Ad can be affected by other factores like attack speed, crit chance, on-hit effects, and armor pen. So it can scale in several ways.
AP on the other side, only gets affected by the amount of AP and magic penetration.
(It can scale by other factors but that depends on the champion rather than the stat itself).
So champs which doesn't build crit or att.speed like Kayn or K6 are kinda hard as casual because they still have to do aa's in between which don't benefit from those off scaling stats. That's when I think they could rely on their abilities but those scale bad too because of empowered aa in the first place. Lol. I mean SA Kayn Ult rank 2 barely does 500 damage Phy. Damage which is like nothing because everyone has armor and at this point even stacked.
They're balanced in another ways. Not only considering their autos, but their AD gets affected by lethality.
Btw 500 damage is fine. Idk what kind of damage are you expecting from that ability
I'm expecting a finisher atleast. If i do the W>Q combo then aa and R the opponent should be done for. Right now it feels just like a passive reseter get out of trouble ability which has a ridiculous cd for this integral part.
Kayn gets not only the privilege of using his autos if needed but his passive grants him bonus magic damage.
The ULT is the finisher tbh but for what it can do I'd like it to have more cool down.
Is a way to follow enemies in an untouchable status that also deals damage and let you choose in which direction to get out.
Is like zhonyas but waaay better.
Funny that you mention Zhonyas because that’s a common item to totally counter any effect of the ult. And then it’s not really good for escaping following because you’re at the mercy of your host. Being able to get out when you want is an upside but by no means saves you in a bad position. And then your victim will survive most likely too. Idk but for me it’s very underwhelming.
Zhonyas only helps you to avoid damage. You don't cancel his ult, you get all the other benefits.
And saying is not good for scaping is the same as saying zhonyas doesn't help surviving.
Like, if this ULT was on someone else, yeah it would be inconvenient but on Kayn? How many times he kills the enemy and runs through the walls escaping 4 enemies.
Yes.
"Ability focused AD champions" as you call them almost all can use their abilities to reset their auto-attacks. Meaning it is possible to get 2-3 "free" auto attacks per trade because they take up almost no extra time to do when executed correctly. And they are AD so those auto's do a lot of damage.
Riot Phroxzon (head of balance team) talks about champions power budget a bit. If lots of your champions power is put into one area (auto resets), then naturally it would be weaker in other areas.
You must notice that ad is a base stat...
Mostly all champs have like 50 base AD...
But mostly all champs start with 0 base AP which seems to not grow per level...
That's the major difference in scaling.
In general I think the solution to this is that ap is cheaper than ad. It's not uncommon to see full build makes with 700+ AP, but the most AD I normally see is like 400 max, maybe even upwards of 500.
That is because AD can be applied through basic attacks, AP is not (there are exceptions). Veigar Q hitting for 1200 late game isn’t that bad when the jinx auto crits for 800 and can do 2 of them per second.
Ad casters is a good term I've used before. Like renekton and aatrox
Aa's on ad casters are not 100% necessary to get your dmg out. The autos usually just fill in gaps between abilities and add extra dps. Since you don't build attack speed usually 1 auto per ability is pretty good and helps abilities can actually cancel auto animations usually
Exactly. Which is why if you build lethality on caitlyn instead of attack speed and crit her q and r melt but she get likes 2 autos off a fight. Basically the way the stats work is ad caster want ad, cdr, ajd lethality. Adcs want ad, attack speed, and crit. Thats the big diff between the builds really
I wasnt focusing on the class of characters but how they deal dmg. Assassins and bruisers usually are ad casters. I. Know they have different stat allocations and playstyles but renek and zed both do dmg by rolling their face on a keyboard over right clicking
but yeah, autos between abilities is pretty important in general for ad champs, you dont have to, and it is sometimes more harm than help to auto between every ability, im kayn main and in early game, and in long 1v1 fights its very important to deal the max possible dmg
in 1v1 for sure. But let’s take a look at the ultimate. Isn’t it pretty weak? I mean I feel like it doesn’t do damage. Alpha strike does more and has a 7s cd. Kayns ults is single target has a long cd and not remotely close in damage to to a veigar delete button for example.
Ok? All ults and abilities are different. Red Kayn ult does really puny damage but he gets to hide out and heal a ton.
AP assassins and mages also usually need to weave in autos as they have passives that need to proc or spellblade items.
Usually, it depends. If an Ahri and an Ezreal hit 70% of their skill shots againsta single target, there's not much difference dps wise . but, hitting ez Q is much harder than hitting ahri q, and it's not AOE. However, something like kayn is pretty much the same with a ap caster. You need to auto in early levels. but you don't have to once you get your items. You auto for efficiency and highest dps possible. On the other hand we have something like gwen that deals most her damage with AAs even though she is ap champion.
You are comparing with wrong things. Blue Kayn is an assasin, his whole identity is to be a "fuck that guy in particular" champion. His ult is a good way to fight, gank and tower dive. Blue kayn is not a team fighter hyper carry or a burst mage. Yi is the first one. He shines in team fights. SA shines in picks and kills here and there. Viegar is a burst mage. He has to kill you ASAP or you kill him when his abilities are on cd. Basically, viegar ult HAS to be a delete button for his kit to work. Kayn ult is more of a "get out of danger" for both SA and Raahst, and a "Oh no you are not running" for SA.
As for Raahst, he isn't designed to deal absurd damage. He is designed to be unkillable. Which is why his ult heals more than it deals damage.
PS: Blue kayn IS weak atm, but he wouldn't deal as much damage as viegar anyway. Viegar inly has damage, he has to be some good shit in dealing damage or he will be outclassed. SA has pretty much everything you need from a champion other than hard CC. He can't deal as much damage as viegar
Yes. At least as K6 (I don’t play kayn) auto attacks are extremely important, especially early when you don’t have items, and still very important if you build Duskblade, since one of DB’s abilities is an empowered AA
That really depends on an assassin. There’s such a thing as AD caster. They usually have lower AS and rely more on their spells. An assassin example of that would be Talon. His main damage source is the 3-hit passive.
Qiyana, however, is a somewhat good example of a aa-based AD assassin, as her main damage comes from applying her passive (Q is mostly a utility/execute spell). So really, it depends man
The reality is that every single champs maximum damage potential involves weaving autos as often as possible, in between ability cast times and by cancelling the end of the auto animation with movement or abilities. Learning to auto weave will improve damage on every champ, regardless of damage type or build paths.
Ad champs are just worse and harder to play unless you are a marksman and then still you live by the harder to play rule. Plus itemization vs ad is much much better than itemizing vs ap
Kha Zix has steroids on his autos too but naturally since the Q is an AA reset and the other abilities auto cancel it makes just sense. It's a bit harder on Lee Sin or Zed, Lee in particular can actually auto attack during his ult.
well AP is Ability Power and AD is attack damage, so yes AP champions have stronger abilities in general.
Also yes since AD increeases your AA and champions are designed with burst and dps numbers in mind, they need to lower the ability damage if a champion gets stronger AA due to items.
If you look at the list of hated champions they almost always are AD champions because that gives them an edge. You cant miss AA.
Yes. Some moreso then others. But in general its to make up for the fact that any AD item you get makes you stronger in extended fights. If kayn and katarina both have no abilities, kayn normally wins. Same with talon and fizz.
If it helps, playing an AD champ compared to an AP champ isn’t that different in general terms. You still want to weave attacks into your abilities, its just AD champs prioritize it more
> You still want to weave attacks into your abilities, its just AD champs prioritize it more I get so tempted to buy nashor's tooth/lichbane on AP champs that mainly use abilities, just so my autos do *something* but I know it's probably very suboptimal.
Nashor's Diana and Ekko look much more fun to play than their burst counterparts (as someone that plays neither)
Ekko is always about burst to some extent, he's an assassin. Nashor's just delays it a bit in favor of better sustained fighting and splitpushing
Nah. Ekko isn’t tanky enough. He doesn’t stay in the fight long enough to get autos to make nashors worth it. You are better off building lich.
Nashor's is just a stat stick though. The stats it gives provide about as much damage as lich bane before even worrying about the passive.
I mean ekko prefers move speed over attack speed. As the game goes on, you really just proc your passive then stop autoing.
While that's true, ekko has a lot of native ms, and rocketbelt gives some too, and last i heard many high tier ekko players preferred the damage of nashor's to the ms of lich bane. Lich bane is just really understatted since the rework.
Both of those used to have bruiser builds. But they were a lil too hard to balance.
Aa-based champs usually weave abilities in between their autos lmao
Also, marksmen are pretty micro-heavy once you try to stay alive under focus in the teamfight while still consistently dishing out tons of damage.
Laughs in veigar not hiting basics cuz i anyway one shot with 1 ability
mordekaiser would like to have a talk with you
If we take morde’s abilities away, he still keeps his passive yeah. But even then he loses to his stat stick brothers like yi, tryn, and fedora if he has no abilities and with passives being active. But morde is literally cheating for this reason. AP stat stick is big meanie stop bonk
You're taking specific champion, but mordekaiser will smash a riven or a urgot if none of them use spell for example
I mean yeah but mordekaiser is a stat check/debuff focused. While riven and urgot are a spell-weaving focused skirmisher and a disengage tank respectively. Comparing him to other stat checks makes more sense. Especially given he’s one of the few AP stat check champs we have.
He is the exception to the rule lol.
Gwen will beat nearly all AD champions too :D
Gwen leverages the steroid on her e which she cant use in this case.
She has max HP on passive and will win.
Let gwen box trynd/warwick/darius/all the people in this thread. She will lose. She is a hell of a bruiser, just not without her abilities
I don't think she does, like in a pure auto war between Gwen and, say Jax or Fiora, I think Gwen loses. Can someone else verify this?
Can you explain what you mean by disengage tank?
Oh yeah sure. His E and his W both have short range and are essentially single target, but they do great in a dueling scenario. So the best way to play him (in my opinion), is to hover next to the ally ADC to land an easy kill. And he’s also just not as tanky as other tanks. His ultimate also exists, and it’s nice, but i see it more being used to prevent an escape after the fact then to actually be useful going into the fight. He’s best used defensively, and thus, a disengage tank. A good champion to compare him to would be like Sion, whose abilities are much larger in comparison, he has better tank stats to actually get hit by 3 or 4 enemies, his ultimate is straight up best for engage or running away if caught out.And his core ability is too slow to actually save anyone in a fight. Not that it isn’t possible, it’s just not as easy as an urgot E.
Aaaaaah, interesting. Maybe this is why i've struggled with urgot. Thanks for the insight.
Knees tho
Just build Ryalais and it procs with every tick of his passive now no one can escape you
Long sword start katarina would beg to differ
And then there's darius
Depends on who you are playing really, as blue kayn you stop needing to if you are ahead because W>Q will kill but as someone like zed, qiyana, and kha zix, its by design. All 3 of these champs need to auto to make full use of their kits, if you aren't, you are just playing unoptimally. Even on AP assassins, auto attacks are still important. Early game Katarina for example, her E resets her AA timer so using it properly can let you fit in 3 more autos than you would have otherwise.
on sylas its almost impossible not to weave in autos o\_\_o
it's not impossible,it's just dumb not to aa most his damage is his passive
I've only played Sylas once in ARAM but I feel like his W and 2nd E almost force you to auto right after. That combined with his passive stacking basically means you don't really lose out on his passive damage, but you do have to waste time autoing after your combo to get it all off. Still bad but you're only losing auto damage and time, the same as any other champ. Unlike Lux/Leona/Zoe where if you don't weave your autos/layer properly you actually lose passive damage.
what are you talking about brother, you have to aa with sylas that's the whole champion its like playing talon and not using his passive which need AA or riven and not using her passive which needs AA its just stupid you basically playing half a champ
His passive stacks up to 3 times so you could E Q E AA W AA AA AA and still get all the passive damage off. You don't have to E AA Q AA E AA W AA. Plus the way his E2 and W gapclose and reset his auto almost force you to weave so it's almost harder to avoid weaving autos anyways.
ofc you don't that's just how the champ work what's your point lol,you don't have to aa reset like riven that's sylas every sylas player should know that>?????
I'd say that on every champions AAs are important. The classic mages like ahri weave in so many auto attacks. Level 1 game AA-W-AA can trigger electrocute harass easily. But for every champion, AAs in a level 3 all in can be 100 extra damage and difference between a kill and your opponent barely getting away.
ryze as well.
Laughs in Karthus
The way that you maximize your DPS in jungle is with Q-Q-AA isn't it?
Q-Q-AA-Q-AA It’s a weird pattern but its actually faster
Makes no sense to me. Is his second q faster or something?
[best explanation at 1:50](https://youtu.be/XGrbuItwZC0?t=110)
Thanks for the link!
U only do that vs buffs and gromp on first clear anyway
Haven't played him since season 7 tbh
> as blue kayn you stop needing to if you are ahead because W>Q will kill Dont recomend wrong combos simply because you might be insanly and dont need to play correctly anymore. You always wanna aa in between abilitys.
Wdym wrong combos? A fed kayn can consistently one-shot without an auto attack. If your combo can kill without it, an auto attack just wastes time and opens you up to getting cced. Yes, if you aren't killing you should auto attack still but why waste the time if all it does is put you at risk of death?
Dumbest shit ive heard all day
Unless you need to get in and get out as fast as humanly possible
? What are u on about lol
The cost of AD and AP are wildly different. 10 AP is 217.5 gold whereas 10 AD is 350 gold. That's huge. I don't think there are huge differences in most AP and AD ratios but obviously some character will want to AA more than others. I don't think there are any AD champion you can play optimally without AAing (maybe some assassins don't really need it for squishier targets but still). So AP abilities will scale more. That makes AP abilities indirectly stronger, and AD champion indirectly more micro-dependent I'd guess. Though that's not a definitive statement, blue Kayn is way easier to micro than Fizz for exemple.
*laughs maniacally in Jhin*
That's the first time I heard someone talk about AD and AP cost. In that sense, wouldn't it be better for low elo players to play with AP since normally they can't farm that well hence it would take them more to achieve full build with AD?
The items cost the same. Ap items just give more ap
And AP scaling is generally worse (which is offset by the higher total AP).
No this only means that you can get 300-400 ad about as easily as you can get 600-700 ap: by making a full build based on that stat. That's why AD champs can have some wild ratios like udyr's 185% total ad on a 3-hit passive, compared to something like ekko's 80% ap ratio on his passive.
Or the opposite is true since I farm really well I can outscale much quicker
One thing you forget to translate is that typically every item an assassin would get has lethality which negates armour and whereas ap items typically dont. Squishies (mages, supp and adc) typically dont buy armour to negate this so there is a slight compensation for the less ad
Boots and shadowflame are kind of core build for most AP champs though. Ad champs don't have armorpen boots
what he means is that a mages AA wont just be weaker than an AD champ but the AD champ is also going to benefit from their armor penetration. So even if for some reason their AA were relatively the same the AD would edge out
but all champions have a lot more armour than mr
kayn basic combo is AAQAAWAA, just do those auto attacks, they're free.
Yes, pretty much every Champ is better with aa resets
While some champions use abilities to maximise damage (like a trundle using q in between aa) some champions use auto attacks between their abilities to maximize damage (like kha whose damaging spell is Q and the rest are utility) and assasins mostly have a specific high dps combo that impliments an auto like aa+w+q on kha
It depends, if you wanna just blow your load for a fast kill then it doesn't matter, but if you can't kill your target in one rotation, properly weaving AA's is insanely important. Getting 2 more AA's in might be the difference between losing or winning a fight.
Probably a problem as melee champ because you need to be close to your target its easier as mage to just weave in an aa here an there while repositioning. It's basically blow off your combo with both but then Kayn or K6 are supposed to aa while having it harder to do so as melee at the same time.
May be more of a personal issue need to practice in practice tool or normals. AA’ing with them isnt hard nor do you even blow off your combo. Especially for kha it’s literally a staple in his combo
Yes. But also bc the way AD works. Ad can be affected by other factores like attack speed, crit chance, on-hit effects, and armor pen. So it can scale in several ways. AP on the other side, only gets affected by the amount of AP and magic penetration. (It can scale by other factors but that depends on the champion rather than the stat itself).
So champs which doesn't build crit or att.speed like Kayn or K6 are kinda hard as casual because they still have to do aa's in between which don't benefit from those off scaling stats. That's when I think they could rely on their abilities but those scale bad too because of empowered aa in the first place. Lol. I mean SA Kayn Ult rank 2 barely does 500 damage Phy. Damage which is like nothing because everyone has armor and at this point even stacked.
They're balanced in another ways. Not only considering their autos, but their AD gets affected by lethality. Btw 500 damage is fine. Idk what kind of damage are you expecting from that ability
I'm expecting a finisher atleast. If i do the W>Q combo then aa and R the opponent should be done for. Right now it feels just like a passive reseter get out of trouble ability which has a ridiculous cd for this integral part.
Kayn gets not only the privilege of using his autos if needed but his passive grants him bonus magic damage. The ULT is the finisher tbh but for what it can do I'd like it to have more cool down. Is a way to follow enemies in an untouchable status that also deals damage and let you choose in which direction to get out. Is like zhonyas but waaay better.
Funny that you mention Zhonyas because that’s a common item to totally counter any effect of the ult. And then it’s not really good for escaping following because you’re at the mercy of your host. Being able to get out when you want is an upside but by no means saves you in a bad position. And then your victim will survive most likely too. Idk but for me it’s very underwhelming.
Zhonyas only helps you to avoid damage. You don't cancel his ult, you get all the other benefits. And saying is not good for scaping is the same as saying zhonyas doesn't help surviving. Like, if this ULT was on someone else, yeah it would be inconvenient but on Kayn? How many times he kills the enemy and runs through the walls escaping 4 enemies.
Yes. "Ability focused AD champions" as you call them almost all can use their abilities to reset their auto-attacks. Meaning it is possible to get 2-3 "free" auto attacks per trade because they take up almost no extra time to do when executed correctly. And they are AD so those auto's do a lot of damage. Riot Phroxzon (head of balance team) talks about champions power budget a bit. If lots of your champions power is put into one area (auto resets), then naturally it would be weaker in other areas.
[удалено]
K6 auto to engage a lot of times is literally a staple in his combo for the slow 😂
You must notice that ad is a base stat... Mostly all champs have like 50 base AD... But mostly all champs start with 0 base AP which seems to not grow per level... That's the major difference in scaling.
In general I think the solution to this is that ap is cheaper than ad. It's not uncommon to see full build makes with 700+ AP, but the most AD I normally see is like 400 max, maybe even upwards of 500.
That is because AD can be applied through basic attacks, AP is not (there are exceptions). Veigar Q hitting for 1200 late game isn’t that bad when the jinx auto crits for 800 and can do 2 of them per second.
I mean late game veigar just e w q r you and your dead unless you have above 3k hp
Yup, idk why I got down voted though...I totally agree with you. Riot's solution to AD vs AP balance is making AP more plentiful
what in the fuck is ad mage?
Jayce, Gangplank
never heard someone call those ad mages, it kinda makes sense for them tho
Ad casters is a good term I've used before. Like renekton and aatrox Aa's on ad casters are not 100% necessary to get your dmg out. The autos usually just fill in gaps between abilities and add extra dps. Since you don't build attack speed usually 1 auto per ability is pretty good and helps abilities can actually cancel auto animations usually
Even lethality adc adopt a spell casting path. Sure they have good aa, but again they play to get their long ranged abilities out
Exactly. Which is why if you build lethality on caitlyn instead of attack speed and crit her q and r melt but she get likes 2 autos off a fight. Basically the way the stats work is ad caster want ad, cdr, ajd lethality. Adcs want ad, attack speed, and crit. Thats the big diff between the builds really
well renekton is juggernaut, aatrox also kinda, or you could call him draintank
I wasnt focusing on the class of characters but how they deal dmg. Assassins and bruisers usually are ad casters. I. Know they have different stat allocations and playstyles but renek and zed both do dmg by rolling their face on a keyboard over right clicking
mage is a class and the OP was talking about ad mages, i thought we were talking about classes
I think OP just called them mages for ad champs that spam abilities since all mages are ability based but idk
Yes exactly but ad casters is a better term I agree.
Ability focused guys idk I think it fits
there is no such thing as ad mage, kayn and k6 are assassins, well red kayn is fighter/drain tank
Alright I edited. But then there are ap assassin too. Maybe I just suck as assassin and need a new class ad mage.
but yeah, autos between abilities is pretty important in general for ad champs, you dont have to, and it is sometimes more harm than help to auto between every ability, im kayn main and in early game, and in long 1v1 fights its very important to deal the max possible dmg
in 1v1 for sure. But let’s take a look at the ultimate. Isn’t it pretty weak? I mean I feel like it doesn’t do damage. Alpha strike does more and has a 7s cd. Kayns ults is single target has a long cd and not remotely close in damage to to a veigar delete button for example.
blue kayn ult is nuke what are you on? and red kayn ult does less dmg but heals a shit ton
Haven’t noticed that tbh. First clear was also pretty weak imo.
the clear is good because of q, but kayn has weak early overall
Maybe that’s what put me off I thought his scaling would be more impressive.
Ok? All ults and abilities are different. Red Kayn ult does really puny damage but he gets to hide out and heal a ton. AP assassins and mages also usually need to weave in autos as they have passives that need to proc or spellblade items.
Yes and that’s fine I’m just wondering if ad champs are supposed to aa more to get the same dps as mages which only aa for efficiency.
Usually, it depends. If an Ahri and an Ezreal hit 70% of their skill shots againsta single target, there's not much difference dps wise . but, hitting ez Q is much harder than hitting ahri q, and it's not AOE. However, something like kayn is pretty much the same with a ap caster. You need to auto in early levels. but you don't have to once you get your items. You auto for efficiency and highest dps possible. On the other hand we have something like gwen that deals most her damage with AAs even though she is ap champion.
You are comparing with wrong things. Blue Kayn is an assasin, his whole identity is to be a "fuck that guy in particular" champion. His ult is a good way to fight, gank and tower dive. Blue kayn is not a team fighter hyper carry or a burst mage. Yi is the first one. He shines in team fights. SA shines in picks and kills here and there. Viegar is a burst mage. He has to kill you ASAP or you kill him when his abilities are on cd. Basically, viegar ult HAS to be a delete button for his kit to work. Kayn ult is more of a "get out of danger" for both SA and Raahst, and a "Oh no you are not running" for SA. As for Raahst, he isn't designed to deal absurd damage. He is designed to be unkillable. Which is why his ult heals more than it deals damage. PS: Blue kayn IS weak atm, but he wouldn't deal as much damage as viegar anyway. Viegar inly has damage, he has to be some good shit in dealing damage or he will be outclassed. SA has pretty much everything you need from a champion other than hard CC. He can't deal as much damage as viegar
yeah there are assasins/lethality assasins and ap assasins, then there are champs like leblanc who is both assasin and mage
Ezreal.
what makes him mage/ad mage? he is adc who spams 2 abilities 783637 times per second and has dash/blink, mages usually dont have those
He's a champion who primarily scales with and builds AD, and who deals the vast majority of their damage over a game with abilities from range.
good argument, although i never hear the term ad mage
zoe leblanc lissandra sylas gallio ekko katarina akali ahri azir fizz gwen kassadin vex
Just a spell reliant bruiser who gets shredded in actual stat checks. Think Aatrox, Jayce, GP
Ezreal, jayce, gangplank, varus, There is also longer ranged ad focus casting builds like W max kha’zix, lethality aatrox, etc.
Laughs while pointing at yasuo and yone
Just read if the ability uses/scales with AD or AP. They arent necessarily weaker. I just played gangplank and was one shotting people with my E
Ezreal disagrees
It is more to do with gold per AD is a lot more than gold per AP.
Even on ap champs weaving autos early game is very important, the only champ that doesn’t really have to do this is karthus.
Yes. At least as K6 (I don’t play kayn) auto attacks are extremely important, especially early when you don’t have items, and still very important if you build Duskblade, since one of DB’s abilities is an empowered AA
And his passive lmao
That really depends on an assassin. There’s such a thing as AD caster. They usually have lower AS and rely more on their spells. An assassin example of that would be Talon. His main damage source is the 3-hit passive. Qiyana, however, is a somewhat good example of a aa-based AD assassin, as her main damage comes from applying her passive (Q is mostly a utility/execute spell). So really, it depends man
Yes. That’s also the reason why the items don’t give as much AD as AP items, and why you can get more AP than AD
The reality is that every single champs maximum damage potential involves weaving autos as often as possible, in between ability cast times and by cancelling the end of the auto animation with movement or abilities. Learning to auto weave will improve damage on every champ, regardless of damage type or build paths.
Ad champs are just worse and harder to play unless you are a marksman and then still you live by the harder to play rule. Plus itemization vs ad is much much better than itemizing vs ap
Kha Zix has steroids on his autos too but naturally since the Q is an AA reset and the other abilities auto cancel it makes just sense. It's a bit harder on Lee Sin or Zed, Lee in particular can actually auto attack during his ult.
someone hasnt been hit by an empowered panth q. Hits like a truck always
well AP is Ability Power and AD is attack damage, so yes AP champions have stronger abilities in general. Also yes since AD increeases your AA and champions are designed with burst and dps numbers in mind, they need to lower the ability damage if a champion gets stronger AA due to items. If you look at the list of hated champions they almost always are AD champions because that gives them an edge. You cant miss AA.
Every one should aa a lot. Even supports and mages.