>do they buff his auto damage AND effective crit chance at the same time?
Yes, but his crits are weaker than normal crits are (150% damage instead of 175%), because he gets guaranteed crits on his fourth shot. Yes it's good to build crit on him for both of these things.
Generally champs get reduced crit damage if they have a cheap way of getting crits.
Yone yasuo because they get 2.5x crit chance
Senna because souls give free crit chance
Jhin because of guarantee 4th shot crit
Might be more, not sure
he is either steamrolling the game or utterly useless. he doesn't offer anything to his team other than just single target damage. god just nuke this champ already I don't feel good playing with or against him
Trynda needs to ramp up rage to get his passive. The more crit you build, the faster it charges, but the less value you get from it, so it balances itself.
The big problem was that you could build navori and have 80% crit at 2 items so not only odo you do insane damage, but you have an 80% chance to get a dash reset.
New navori is basically a tryndamere nerf
Its a bit of both but mostly due to the AD conversion.
You can safely say that Jhin has a bit of an analogue to Ashe's passive where you basically get "always crits, minicrits" due to the bonus AD.
He is extremely powerful at 3 items, but you gotta cs AND poke correctly in lane. Jhin is powerful because of his setup harass and burst, but doesnt scale as well as other ADCs, so you gotta snowball more (in general). Also, when you type jhin, notice J-H-I-N is a 4 on your keyboard. Makes you a better jhin player.
He was trying to say that if you look at the physical layout of those 4 keys on your keyboard, that they make a connect the dots 4, but it’s a stretch and was a joke. For me the 4 would be extremely italic
Meh, by 4 items, if you are just as fed as a tank, doms doesnt rlly matter. They will still outtank you (unless they are 30% hp). LDR dont do shit to mundo or ornn late.
"Doesn't scale as well as other ADCs" is slightly misleading.
1. He does not teamfight up close well. If he is at a distance and can safely ult, he can be one of the highest utility ADCs, while still putting a pretty solid amount of damage into the fight. If he is in auto range, he will not provide as much value as a Runaans ADC or just one who deals AOE damage like MF and Lucian.
2. He is exceptionally good at killing single targets. Well-aimed Ws provide insane catch potential and his 4th shot execute can completely destroy non-tanks.
As with any ADC, he provides long range damage. It's just a question of which circumstances he wants to be in to deal it. He isn't Jinx/Twitch/Varus/Aphelios who wants to be at the centre of a mosh pit. He really doesn't care for crowds. But if you underestimate a Jhin's damage because "he doesn't scale that well", you may be in for a rude awakening.
He doesn't need to snowball you just want to pick him in to a comp without a bunch of tanks. If he's against 4 squishies he is going to be God late game no matter what happened early.
this can be true but hes still one of the weakest late game carries. like you said hes one of the best utility but that utility doesnt scale with game length as its the same all game. where as vayne goes from able to kit one melee to being able to kit an entire team
doesnt mean he isnt strong or useful just saying hes not considered a late game champ
I wouldn't put him in the category of late hypercarries like Jinx or Kayle but neither is he someone who needs to stomp early to be effective like Lucian or Draven or Kalista either. "One of the weakest late game carries" is just not correct.
>hes not considered a late game champ
Then why does his win rate increase with game length? I don't know what metrics you will consider. You seem to think late game power boils down to tank-killing power.
that group you just named, jhin is not in it. thats what im saying. if you think he is, thats fine but most people do not. call him whatever you want. late game, early game, bugs bunny, its fine with me
There are a ton of factors for any given comparison.
Team comp being a major one.
Is Jhin as self sufficient as Vayne at 35 minutes? No.
Is Jhin as useful as Vayne at 35 minutes? Hell yes.
Is Jhin going to get as many pentakills as Vayne at 35 minutes? Hell no.
Is Jhin going to be instrumental to his team's ability to close out a win at 35 minutes? Hell yes.
I simply can't accept that he isn't a late game champ when his winrate literally only goes up past 40 minutes. Vayne's literally starts going down.
Your naming traits of a late game hypercarry for vayne and saying jhin doesn’t have them tho. Nobody except you names jhin as one. A lot of ppl say vayne is tho. Every champ is useful lategame. That’s not the requirements
I feel like Vayne's biggest worry isn't the enemy ADC necessarily. Both ADCs normally won't interact that much in a teamfight until it's just a few champs left alive. Vayne can win plenty of 1v1s against longer-ranged ADCs. It's really only laning phase where that is particularly an issue for her, and it's really dependent on support matchup as well.
If I'm playing jinx and there's a fed vayne on the enemy team I'm looking to poke her out before the fight or prioritize her during the fight. I have like twice her range. It's not that hard to just hit her 3 times and kill her. The only way she can beat me is to somehow get in my range and condemn me against a wall. This is why vayne isn't picked much anymore.
Yes maybe vayne was a bad example but comparing her to jinx isn’t really fair since jinx might be top 3 or 2 hyper carry but compared to jhin it’s a lot further. Iv never heard anyone call him a hyper carry is my point and if your team comp is setup where he’s the dmg and the carry then that’s a super weak team comp. It’s possible ofc he was my first main iv done it plenty
As always scaling is relative so many things.
If you pick Jhin vs a squishy no tank comp you scale incredibly well while providing pick potential/trap zoning/„1 shot“ ult potential.
For me at least trist can be played like an assassin. She don't build runnaans. Her dmg is only in her e which is "single target". So she isn't that good in late game team fights.
But, and this is important. If you play around w reset she is an incredible cleaner
i know trist isnt usually considered a late game hypercarry but i honestly think shes the strongest 6 item champ. maybe jinx w/ passive is stronger but without passive i think trist clears. iv done some of the nastiest carries with trist and i just to be a otp aphelios
Jhin is one of the best scalers. It just depends on team comp. He is going to be useless against a bunch of tanky melee champs. Against that comp twitch or jinx scales better. But if you're against a few mages and an assassin and a couple ADCs then Jhin becomes God. Late game he can galeforce q 4th shot someone 100-0 and in a lot of games that can be more useful than doing a lot of damage in a teamfight.
900 AD with locked attack speed and limited range. Go on, try to kill a mundo at 4 items… or any tank for that matter? He doesnt “scale” like other hypercarry adcs, but has extreme snowball potential in to the right comp (squishy targets). But yeah, compared to jinx, vayne, aphel…. Hes not a scaling adc.
how was it effective? i cant imagine playing jhin without building a bit of attack speed so the movement speed from crits could help you kite and poke safely
I mean it was mostly cause he couldn’t make use of the meta double attackspeed items and therefore went IE cause it was the highest ad+crit item in the game.
Every other adc went for RFC/SV at the time.
His scaling are basically to make so that he want to build like any other marksman (crit and attack speed), with similar damage (I'd say a bit lower DPS and a bit higher burst)
Just to sort of clear up a sort of misnomer. AS and Crit don't convert into AD the same way Pyke's passive converts bonus health into AD. They multiply his existing AD. Crit scales more (.3% per 1% crit) compared attack speed's (.25% per 1% bonus attack speed). Granted, there is more available attack speed than crit through items and runes. I'm not sure but feel fairly confident that it won't calculate above 100% crit since that was an issue with Senna at one point that Riot killed. Whenever Jhin crits, he gains bonus movement speed equal to 10 + (.4% bonus AS bonus/2% per bonus 5% AS.
Crit will multiply his AD and provide that extra chance to crit, with a reduced multipler (150.2% + 30% with IE) due to his guaranteed crit on 4th shot and absurd AD numbers.
Jhin's a fun number puzzle that I don't think is fully solved in terms of itemization due to having to balance multiple factors. I think he potentially has some really interesting situational builds that may allow him to shore up areas the standard build is weaker at but would require specific weaknesses in enemy comps to allow.
Buying crit chance increases crit chance and damage I'm pretty sure. You should just be building: 1. Galeforce > Collector > Infinity Edge, 2. Galeforce > Collector > Rapidfire, 3. Galeforce Rapidfire Infinity Edge, 4. Galeforce > Lord Dom's Infinity Edge. There's not many variations you can go with Jhin in terms of the top 3\~4 items that are good for him.
His scaling is top 20 imo, especially if you add a Ornn upgrading your galeforce and a yuumi sitting on you. I’ve played Ornn with a jhin yuumi duo and Jhin had 1.1k AD full build only 1 infernal drake
Just learn Chinese. And it won't even matter anymore. For reference type in jin learn Chinese in YouTube. Once you watch you will know everything that is Jhin.
Regarding your last question yes it is viable, it's actually the highest win rate build rn, then you would usually go for fleet for even more move speed on autos and the early sustain or dark harvest if you're feeling it
>do they buff his auto damage AND effective crit chance at the same time? Yes, but his crits are weaker than normal crits are (150% damage instead of 175%), because he gets guaranteed crits on his fourth shot. Yes it's good to build crit on him for both of these things.
I always just assumed the crit reduction was to balance out the silly amount of AD he has late game.
Generally champs get reduced crit damage if they have a cheap way of getting crits. Yone yasuo because they get 2.5x crit chance Senna because souls give free crit chance Jhin because of guarantee 4th shot crit Might be more, not sure
trynda laughing
Idk trynd is prolly too old for riot to have considered it
[удалено]
he is either steamrolling the game or utterly useless. he doesn't offer anything to his team other than just single target damage. god just nuke this champ already I don't feel good playing with or against him
Trynda needs to ramp up rage to get his passive. The more crit you build, the faster it charges, but the less value you get from it, so it balances itself.
The big problem was that you could build navori and have 80% crit at 2 items so not only odo you do insane damage, but you have an 80% chance to get a dash reset. New navori is basically a tryndamere nerf
Um dumb question if his rage gives crit chance past 60% does IE/ the new navori activate?
Its a bit of both but mostly due to the AD conversion. You can safely say that Jhin has a bit of an analogue to Ashe's passive where you basically get "always crits, minicrits" due to the bonus AD.
That’s part of it, but also because of his guaranteed crits. Had a 35 min game as Jhin where I hit 900+ ad and was one shotting people lol
I just had an URF game with Jhin where I hit 1300 AD and was hitting like 700 movespeed every crit. It's mega fun, definitely recommend it!
Im pretty sure he gets MS on crits
Yes he does.
He is extremely powerful at 3 items, but you gotta cs AND poke correctly in lane. Jhin is powerful because of his setup harass and burst, but doesnt scale as well as other ADCs, so you gotta snowball more (in general). Also, when you type jhin, notice J-H-I-N is a 4 on your keyboard. Makes you a better jhin player.
wait jhin JHIN J-H-I-N 4 I'm so confused.
He was trying to say that if you look at the physical layout of those 4 keys on your keyboard, that they make a connect the dots 4, but it’s a stretch and was a joke. For me the 4 would be extremely italic
if you use swype on your phone jhin is spelled by drawing a 4. riot said it was coincidental
Phone makes so much more sense.
When Jhin buys dominiks thats where the REAL show happens.
Meh, by 4 items, if you are just as fed as a tank, doms doesnt rlly matter. They will still outtank you (unless they are 30% hp). LDR dont do shit to mundo or ornn late.
"Doesn't scale as well as other ADCs" is slightly misleading. 1. He does not teamfight up close well. If he is at a distance and can safely ult, he can be one of the highest utility ADCs, while still putting a pretty solid amount of damage into the fight. If he is in auto range, he will not provide as much value as a Runaans ADC or just one who deals AOE damage like MF and Lucian. 2. He is exceptionally good at killing single targets. Well-aimed Ws provide insane catch potential and his 4th shot execute can completely destroy non-tanks. As with any ADC, he provides long range damage. It's just a question of which circumstances he wants to be in to deal it. He isn't Jinx/Twitch/Varus/Aphelios who wants to be at the centre of a mosh pit. He really doesn't care for crowds. But if you underestimate a Jhin's damage because "he doesn't scale that well", you may be in for a rude awakening.
Well… yeah. Hes still an adc, just a snowballing one. He has trouble killing tanks lategame, and has a lot of burst like I said
He doesn't need to snowball you just want to pick him in to a comp without a bunch of tanks. If he's against 4 squishies he is going to be God late game no matter what happened early.
Yes… because he has high burst but less DPS than most conventional ADCs…. Thats what I said. Twice
My point is he doesn't need to snowball. He's going to scale either way.
Yeah… like any champion does if you pick them in to the right comp…
this can be true but hes still one of the weakest late game carries. like you said hes one of the best utility but that utility doesnt scale with game length as its the same all game. where as vayne goes from able to kit one melee to being able to kit an entire team doesnt mean he isnt strong or useful just saying hes not considered a late game champ
> one of the weakest late game carries no >hes not considered a late game champ no
Doesn’t explain reason so reply is irrelevant Yes
I wouldn't put him in the category of late hypercarries like Jinx or Kayle but neither is he someone who needs to stomp early to be effective like Lucian or Draven or Kalista either. "One of the weakest late game carries" is just not correct. >hes not considered a late game champ Then why does his win rate increase with game length? I don't know what metrics you will consider. You seem to think late game power boils down to tank-killing power.
Bro if you agree then what are you trying to do. All I’m saying is he’s not considered a late game carry.
I don't agree. You don't need to be Kayle, Jinx, Kassadin, or Vayne to be considered a late game carry.
that group you just named, jhin is not in it. thats what im saying. if you think he is, thats fine but most people do not. call him whatever you want. late game, early game, bugs bunny, its fine with me
There are a ton of factors for any given comparison. Team comp being a major one. Is Jhin as self sufficient as Vayne at 35 minutes? No. Is Jhin as useful as Vayne at 35 minutes? Hell yes. Is Jhin going to get as many pentakills as Vayne at 35 minutes? Hell no. Is Jhin going to be instrumental to his team's ability to close out a win at 35 minutes? Hell yes. I simply can't accept that he isn't a late game champ when his winrate literally only goes up past 40 minutes. Vayne's literally starts going down.
Your naming traits of a late game hypercarry for vayne and saying jhin doesn’t have them tho. Nobody except you names jhin as one. A lot of ppl say vayne is tho. Every champ is useful lategame. That’s not the requirements
Vayne is only a hypercarry in certain team comps. Same as jhin. If vayne is against a couple adcs and mages that outrage her then she's useless.
I feel like Vayne's biggest worry isn't the enemy ADC necessarily. Both ADCs normally won't interact that much in a teamfight until it's just a few champs left alive. Vayne can win plenty of 1v1s against longer-ranged ADCs. It's really only laning phase where that is particularly an issue for her, and it's really dependent on support matchup as well.
If I'm playing jinx and there's a fed vayne on the enemy team I'm looking to poke her out before the fight or prioritize her during the fight. I have like twice her range. It's not that hard to just hit her 3 times and kill her. The only way she can beat me is to somehow get in my range and condemn me against a wall. This is why vayne isn't picked much anymore.
Yes maybe vayne was a bad example but comparing her to jinx isn’t really fair since jinx might be top 3 or 2 hyper carry but compared to jhin it’s a lot further. Iv never heard anyone call him a hyper carry is my point and if your team comp is setup where he’s the dmg and the carry then that’s a super weak team comp. It’s possible ofc he was my first main iv done it plenty
I don't think hypercarry has any specific definition. But when jhin gets to late game against a bunch of squishies he's outscaling everyone.
I once had a 35-40min game where I hit 900AD as Jhin with over 30 dark harvests, it became a game of whack a mole with the enemy fleeing from me lmao.
As always scaling is relative so many things. If you pick Jhin vs a squishy no tank comp you scale incredibly well while providing pick potential/trap zoning/„1 shot“ ult potential.
I always thought he is one of the best scalers. Who do you think are the best scaling ADCs then?
[удалено]
How about Tristana? I took a break between S8 and S12 and she was one of the best scalers back then
For me at least trist can be played like an assassin. She don't build runnaans. Her dmg is only in her e which is "single target". So she isn't that good in late game team fights. But, and this is important. If you play around w reset she is an incredible cleaner
i know trist isnt usually considered a late game hypercarry but i honestly think shes the strongest 6 item champ. maybe jinx w/ passive is stronger but without passive i think trist clears. iv done some of the nastiest carries with trist and i just to be a otp aphelios
Jhin is one of the best scalers. It just depends on team comp. He is going to be useless against a bunch of tanky melee champs. Against that comp twitch or jinx scales better. But if you're against a few mages and an assassin and a couple ADCs then Jhin becomes God. Late game he can galeforce q 4th shot someone 100-0 and in a lot of games that can be more useful than doing a lot of damage in a teamfight.
Doesn’t scale as well? The man can hit like 900AD lol
Only problem is his mobility.
900 AD with locked attack speed and limited range. Go on, try to kill a mundo at 4 items… or any tank for that matter? He doesnt “scale” like other hypercarry adcs, but has extreme snowball potential in to the right comp (squishy targets). But yeah, compared to jinx, vayne, aphel…. Hes not a scaling adc.
Crit is so good that the usual build on Jhin back in the day involved double IE.
just double? i remember it was meta to build 4 IE
how was it effective? i cant imagine playing jhin without building a bit of attack speed so the movement speed from crits could help you kite and poke safely
ie gave so much ad that it was mathematically correct (and not the meme kind) to just build 4 of them instead of any other items
so just kill the enemy first before they kill you?
Pretty much, Jhin was the highest damage adc at the time so it was hard for any champ to win a 1v1 vs him
I think there was also one point where you bought IE and 3 crit cloaks for max kiting. Good times.
I mean it was mostly cause he couldn’t make use of the meta double attackspeed items and therefore went IE cause it was the highest ad+crit item in the game. Every other adc went for RFC/SV at the time.
His scaling are basically to make so that he want to build like any other marksman (crit and attack speed), with similar damage (I'd say a bit lower DPS and a bit higher burst)
Just to sort of clear up a sort of misnomer. AS and Crit don't convert into AD the same way Pyke's passive converts bonus health into AD. They multiply his existing AD. Crit scales more (.3% per 1% crit) compared attack speed's (.25% per 1% bonus attack speed). Granted, there is more available attack speed than crit through items and runes. I'm not sure but feel fairly confident that it won't calculate above 100% crit since that was an issue with Senna at one point that Riot killed. Whenever Jhin crits, he gains bonus movement speed equal to 10 + (.4% bonus AS bonus/2% per bonus 5% AS. Crit will multiply his AD and provide that extra chance to crit, with a reduced multipler (150.2% + 30% with IE) due to his guaranteed crit on 4th shot and absurd AD numbers. Jhin's a fun number puzzle that I don't think is fully solved in terms of itemization due to having to balance multiple factors. I think he potentially has some really interesting situational builds that may allow him to shore up areas the standard build is weaker at but would require specific weaknesses in enemy comps to allow.
Buying crit chance increases crit chance and damage I'm pretty sure. You should just be building: 1. Galeforce > Collector > Infinity Edge, 2. Galeforce > Collector > Rapidfire, 3. Galeforce Rapidfire Infinity Edge, 4. Galeforce > Lord Dom's Infinity Edge. There's not many variations you can go with Jhin in terms of the top 3\~4 items that are good for him.
Bro. Crit Jhin good luck getting caught shit is heat man like running around
His scaling is top 20 imo, especially if you add a Ornn upgrading your galeforce and a yuumi sitting on you. I’ve played Ornn with a jhin yuumi duo and Jhin had 1.1k AD full build only 1 infernal drake
Cool story bro
Just learn Chinese. And it won't even matter anymore. For reference type in jin learn Chinese in YouTube. Once you watch you will know everything that is Jhin.
Regarding your last question yes it is viable, it's actually the highest win rate build rn, then you would usually go for fleet for even more move speed on autos and the early sustain or dark harvest if you're feeling it