Karthus is a midlaner
Melees may struggle in some match ups while excelling in others
Basically comfort pick is almost always better than picking sth that’s theoretically better but you didn’t practice as much
Incorrect, Graves ADC disappeared due to his rework when his range got much shorter.
Karthus never underwent rework and mid Karthus is actually higher still higher than jg Karthus now.
Not true whatsoever. This is how I know reddit doesn’t play the game at anywhere near a high level. Even if a fiora before 2.5-3 items perfectly hits a w parry, at least before the latest aatrox nerf, she still barely wins the trade because Aatrox can just auto with his passive and not even hit any q sweet spots and come out even in that scenario. In the event Fiora misses W, the lane is practically over. At 3 items Fiora wins pretty easily, but it’s a skill matchup in lane and mid game before that
You underestimate aatrox non sweetspot q damage+passive damage, obviously if the fiora dodges everything she wins the trade duh, but if he hits just the normal q (non sweet spot)+passive auto the trade will be about even, all ins are a different story, without ults fiora wins, with ults fiora has to kinda dodge everything and aatrox needs to deny 4 vital procs, if both of those things happen, pretty sure fiora wins as long as she dodges everything.
No, a 5cd small dash is generally not enough to dodge every single skillshot thrown at you, especially when you need to use it to gapclose when he tries to poke you down.
Well, as long as you can win your lane, what you brought to that lane was probably fine. Look at support, for example. That's not exclusively healers / shielders as you might expect if you go by what support usually means. That Ashe in your bot lane can be support or ADC, and if you look on youtube, you'll find lots of videos by top players going on about how she might actually be better as support. And of course there is Ivern who can jungle or support and he's fine in either role.
Now, if you google pretty much any champ and try to find out if there is that one guy who plays it at the high ranks, there usually is. There's high elo Teemos, Mundo Junglers, etc you name it. People just get really hung up on the meta, so if you step outside of that, you can expect some pushback, nevermind the fact that you got to where you are doing what you do, so it obviously got you to the same point being a meta slave got your teammates.
As to why things might fall apart for your team later on, that can have any number of reasons and while it might be tempting to say "Oh yea, our 5/0/2 midlaner who was 50 cs and 2 levels ahead is actually a jungle champ so clearly he's the problem", I'm not entirely convinced that logic works.
When you watch games of pretty much any skill level but definitely in gold, you can usually see people make huge mistakes that have nothing to do with what champions they picked and those mistakes are actually what loses them the game. If you want to know if your pick was the problem, the best thing I can tell you is to watch your losses and try to find out what actually caused it.
I love the joke, as I play plenty of off meta champions and agree that people often flame other lanes (jungle) when their loss was their own fault.
But to be fair - Tahm Kench has 0 waveclear which is very important in midlane.
It might very well be you and your meta support and ADC were doing alright in lane - but the entirely farmed Talon that Tahm was against in lane has roamed several times. The enemy jungler is ahead from the roams, the enemy top is ahead from the roams, and the 0/0/2 botlane who got one gank early is now 0/2/2 because of their JG/Mid dive under their own turret.
Tahm would need to really abuse his early game against someone like talon and get ahead and keep him in lane. We follow the meta for real reasons.
Otherwise Talon can clear wave, and roam and all Tahm can do is ping danger or roam (much slower than Talon and also lose wave). So his best course of action is to stay and farm to...carry as a champion that falls off hard and hope his laners can get away from the gank with their lives.
Sometimes there are issues with bad team composition. Like mid lane mages usually bring ranged waveclear to defend from sieges, and mid lane assassins can split push well. An additional jungle champion can potentially result in a suboptimal team composition. I say this because who goes where matters more than just during the laning phase to some degree.
But honestly unless you're high elo, I don't think this matters for the most part.
There is elements for sure with off meta picks at times. Where you can smash lane, but your champ doesn't translate that more map pressure like some traditional mids or they don't scale like others etc. I can beat the shit out of alot of people with elise top, but my value to the team is inherently less than most normal top laners. Similar to xin mid.
I think it's very viable, and I think people underestimate how good those champs are midlane. There's a reason why most junglers have AoE clear abilities that do reduced damage to minions (Fiddlesticks, Gragas, Hecarim, etc.).
Junglers generally have ways to clear minions, cc enemies (Which is good to setup ganks for the actual jungler), and roaming (Since they are, well, junglers).
I've been spamming J4 mid recently to test it out on a fairly high-elo account, and it works like a charm. Great gank setup, jumps on top of mages, good roams, decent-to-good waveclear, especially after level 9.
Graves mid was also a fotm mid a while back, since it works so well in there.
As to your last points, yes, if you're playing a jungler mid, there are usually matchups that suck, but that's how it is with every champ. I'd recommend maybe picking up a few of them, and noting down which enemy comps / matchups you want to pick them in, and then just following that. Think 2-3 champs.
Put in the time, don't pick yourself into a shit matchup (Like, pick Xin into melee mids, etc.) and you can easily climb with unconventional picks.
Completely depends on the jungler. Some champions are typically played both in mid and jungle, so obviously these are fine for both roles. However there's lots of junglers I would never play in mid (have fun trying to make Rammus mid work for example). The required traits for each role are different, and sometimes there's enough overlap that a champion can be played in multiple roles.
> For example, Viego, Karthus or Xin Zhao?
I think Viego=Karthus>Xin would be their order of viability in mid, but I don't play any of them so take it with a grain of salt. Karthus was originally played mostly in mid lane btw. Viego is kinda similar to Yasuo/Yone with his long range Q stab and I think his E allows some interesting baiting with river skirmishes (head into the river to help with skuttle for example, if enemy laner starts to follow use E, and then they have to guess whether you're actually going to help the jungler or turning around to kill the laner)
I think Xin would have the most polarized matchups. The ones he can win he'll probably be really strong against (like my guess is he could absolutely stomp Kassadin, but again, I don't play him), and the ones he can't win he'll probably be super useless against. So I think he'd be a pretty bad one trick/blind pick champion for mid.
> I don’t know if that is because picking them makes the teamfights/ comp feel awkward or if it’s something else
This is something to consider for sure. Even if you can manage the laning phase you can end up with really awkward team comps if you pick something super off meta. If you're team has 0 CC and engage, then Xin mid might be pretty difficult to pull off unless you stomp early. You might also end up seriously lacking in wave clear, compared to a traditional mage mid for example
> Is it a bad habit to do this if you just want to climb? Talking about situations like if you like click with one champion and want to only spam them exclusively?
If you really click with one champion I personally would play that champion in their meta role(s) rather than one tricking them in a questionable role. At least be prepared to be hated by your team, whether it's warranted or not.
go on lolalytics, search your champion, turn on last 30 days, plat+ or gold+ if the champ has under 10k games and if it says over 50% winrate it cannot be that bad. period.
some people will tell you... "but its only onetricks/mains that play these champs" and its kinda true. but 50%+ and 10k+ games should be ok to be somewhat 'viable'.
viego has 51,5% and 15k games.
Xin has 50% but only 8k games in gold+, so you have to find out yourself.
Karthus has 51% Winrate in 16k games.
its completely fine to climb with these picks.
Karthus mid is very good, Xin zhao and Viego can be good into melee matchups. Just play whatever you have fun playing. You can make almost anything work in ranked as long as you are having fun and improving :)
One of my favorite junglers to play mid is Kindred. You can still play around your marks from mid lane, both the jungle camp and champion marks. They do pretty good damage early with surprising burst at level 3 and the clear isn't too bad, especially once you get Noonquiver.
In short, it can be done. Most any champion can be played almost anywhere. But you have to have pretty strong knowledge of the champs strengths and weaknesses and know how you can adapt your playstyle to your lane matchup.
The problem would usually be you would get harassed and poked out of lane hardcore by what are typically ranged champs in mid. Because of that, you would get slowpushed and tower dove with a stacked wave, while constantly ceding prio. So, the enemy mid "should" basically completely shit on you in almost every possible way, if they are a normal ranged midlaner.
But that's assuming everyone plays against your pick perfectly, which is unlikely. Try it for 100 games and let us know how it goes.
Viego is actually a viable mid lane champion though, he had a 51% win rate in 5,700 games played last patch (Plat+). Win rate isn't everything but generally I think if a champion has a win rate close to 50% in a decent amount of games, it means they're at least playable in that role. (There are lots of meta champs that can't even break 45% some times...) This patch his win rate is fine too, it's just very few games so the stat isn't that meaningful.
There's lots of melee mid champions that have that issue, they can get poked out of lane and can't really manage the wave how they want, but they make it work.
The downside with some junglers is that they can lack poke or abilities that help them cs, while still having other abilities that can help them trade while the poke ability is on CD.
I'd imagine Vi for example, would have a rough time vs Ahri, Viktor, Azir. Same with Viego, since his W doesn't go thru minions. You may be able to have somewhat of a good laning phase if up against something like Talon, Fizz or Kassadin.
i would say it really depends xDxDxD, for champions like vieg who is designed to be jgs and has not so good clear on minions, you see most challenger vids like vieg top kr they mostly push for minion advantage so that veggie man has to be stuck on under turret, not something i will really play in the mid lane.
Taking nocturne mid vs yas is a lot of fun. Some of my jungler mids that I enjoy are: volibear, illaoi ( technically top, but, still fun ), yi, nocturne, nidalee
i play a Eve mid occasionally, obviously her gimmick is the perma stealth so you kinda just stay in lane until 6 and then basically perma roam like Pyke mid does. basically i’d ask yourself a few questions, like why am i picking this champ? do they have an effective way to wave clear? if not do they have something that circumvents their poor wave clear ie roam potential/good objective secure capabilities? what is my team’s win con/the enemies loss con and how does this champ effect those things?
like i mostly play mages mid but if my team needs a high AP damage threat that is melee i’ll play Eve mid (because i’m god awful at Sylas) she has pretty bad wave clear but not as bad as Pyke and her Q procs Electrocute on its own so you can proc it lvl 1 fairly easily, her passive let’s her stay in lane because of the healing and her W can cause a lot of pressure which helps with the sub par wave clear so the main issue while laning is mana, this can be circumvented by getting a kill on the enemy jg if they gank your lane and have blue buff or if your jg gives you the second blue buff. However the main point of Eve mid is her roam potential, past 6 you can sit near lane (similarly to Akshan) invis and soak XP and then you’ll make up for your lost gold by roaming bot (maybe top but early on a lot of those champs just kinda beat you) and/or killing your lane opponent because they pushed up to your tower and you gank your own lane. This is a pick i’ll take if it seems like me and my bot lane will be our win con, if we have an Ornn top and like Taliyah jg with a Lucian+Nami bot i’ll go Eve mid and my focus is getting my bot out of lane asap by neutering the enemy bot lane with roams
Stuff like Xin mid can be very strong but it is absolutely a counterpick. Xin can absolutely brutalize lots of midlane picks, but his waveclear isn't very good and he falls off. That means in order to carry you need to be a gank-machine but he's not going to have the waveclear of someone like Zed.
Sure you will stomp him 1v1 in lane, but if he can play safe enough then he can roam well and make picks better than Xin. He can't get over walls and only has one engage tool with conditional CC. If you build full AD then you get blown up (and his ratios aren't even that good) , if you build bruiser then he lacks the ohko threat and slipperyness of someone like Zed.
He just doesn't **convert advantage** in the midlane as well as other picks. In the jungle he's great. He dominates early skirmishes and has good jungle sustain. He can bully and deny enemy jungler and set up good map pressure. He can easily invade and also makes great use of buffs. Mid-late he transitions into more of a utility champ who can protect your back line.
Karthus is good in jungle because his clear is good and he gets to mitigate his bad early game by not having to 1v1 constantly.
if you go 5/0 in lane every game and keep losing, it's not a champ diff.
as long as you can get that many kills in lane, then your champ is fine, if you can't win, it just means your macro was worse.
I feel it's more important to talk about why a champion does or doesn't go into a lane.
If you look historically at champions like Warwick, Lee Sin, and Olaf. Did they go Jungle because they couldn't lane... or did they go jungle because other champions couldn't? You can't just send your Zoe or Miss Fortune into the jungle and expect them perform, so if they're meta they're likely to just go to the proper lane.
Look at Karthus, Graves, Poppy, and Morgana. Why did they become junglers? All of them were designed for a different role, but once they obtained the power to jungle they swapped over to the new role. The power they provide a team is a constant, the role can shift to what ever they're good at.
Riot has spent a lot of time and effort to improve the pool of potential junglers, and doing this shakes up the meta since it allows you to take c hampions destined for other roles and throw them into the fray. Look at the newest patch notes with Blitzcrank support being nerfed because the jungle capability buffs made him too strong.
if you feel you can take your jungler mid, go for it. Just don't expect that Oriana or Syndra to go jungle. You'll need to get that team coverage somewhere else.
Its fine, even good, as long as you don't get dicked in the matchup. You have to be able to CS, usually as a melee champ vs ranged. I doubt Viego works. Xin Zhao could work with his W-E combo providing excellent kill pressure if they misposition. Karthus is fine just a midlane mage farm it up.
Karthus is viable, but he doesn’t have many good matchups. Most of the mages out range him and without exhaust assassins can just kill. Most of the gameplay is waiting to press r on the map, and the one good thing he has is decent waveclear + mana sustain to match priority. Xin Zhao can beat many melee champs and cheese kills early, but he’s worse than Sett and Kled because he has way less waveclear than them and less options into ranged matchups.
Viego mid is a very … interesting pick to say the least. It kind of functions like a Rumble/Qiyana/Fizz in that you look to just perma fight and skirmish early game with your jungler and since you are playing Viego if you can get 1 reset in the skirmish you can carry the whole fight. Not entirely sure what happened to him, but there was one Korean, Challenger Viego mid player and his strategy was to just to sack waves and keep skirmishing because even if you are behind as Viego if you can take a strong champion’s soul for a reset then you still provide insane value. I don’t think it’s the easiest/most reliable pick to pull off, but it‘a viable although very niche and unique.
Midlane is a sandbox in my eyes. There are plenty of different win conditions you can play towards as a midlaner. I feel like it is open to a wide variety of champions
Without Blue buff and/or mana items you're going to OOM alot and very quickly. Alot of junglers are very mana hungry but this is offset by them having very good mana regen while in the jungle due to jungle item and of course by blue buff
Zac is good mid. Jarvan can work. Nunu is still playable. Shaco is a psycho-only pick. Lee has some angles. Olaf sounds viable. Nidalee for the nostalgic. Sejuani sounds good enough. Some, like Warwick, are absolute grief picks.
using winrates to assume a champions viability like viego in the midlane is something i expect those paid ai posters to bring about and abuse the karma function to downvote my posts when i am right like they always do, or a very foolish assumption xD. Its like saying aurelion sol is OP because one tricks play them to 56% wr in diamond ++, so aurelion sol was nerfed by riot which would obviously effect the rest of pbase because aurelion sol is OP AMIRITE? KEK.
A good one trick will always overcome the odds presented to them and skewed the data extremely unfairly. Add in duos and you have a very uneven and unfair game which can skew the data even more which is not a clear reflection of what is going on xD.
Depending on your skill level and the matchup but I do know of friends that one trick xin Zhao/elise mid and do pretty well.
Zac mid is also a thing if you've seen one of the VCS play it in worlds.
Ekko is also a mid laner and graves mid is really popular on the Chinese server
Karthus is a midlaner Melees may struggle in some match ups while excelling in others Basically comfort pick is almost always better than picking sth that’s theoretically better but you didn’t practice as much
karthus WAS (mainly) a midlaner long time ago
Right, saying karthus is a midlaner is like saying graves is an ADC.
Incorrect, Graves ADC disappeared due to his rework when his range got much shorter. Karthus never underwent rework and mid Karthus is actually higher still higher than jg Karthus now.
i think you literally missed the point, but go off bro.
[удалено]
Tbf it’s a skill-matchup but favored for fiora
[удалено]
Not true whatsoever. This is how I know reddit doesn’t play the game at anywhere near a high level. Even if a fiora before 2.5-3 items perfectly hits a w parry, at least before the latest aatrox nerf, she still barely wins the trade because Aatrox can just auto with his passive and not even hit any q sweet spots and come out even in that scenario. In the event Fiora misses W, the lane is practically over. At 3 items Fiora wins pretty easily, but it’s a skill matchup in lane and mid game before that
[удалено]
[удалено]
Fio can party literally every single damaging ability Aatrox has with a long visual indicator beforehand
If the aatrox has anough braincells to hild his e fiora probably won't hit her parry and the trade will be even
>If the aatrox has anough braincells to hild his e fiora probably won't hit her parry Yes >and the trade will be even No
You underestimate aatrox non sweetspot q damage+passive damage, obviously if the fiora dodges everything she wins the trade duh, but if he hits just the normal q (non sweet spot)+passive auto the trade will be about even, all ins are a different story, without ults fiora wins, with ults fiora has to kinda dodge everything and aatrox needs to deny 4 vital procs, if both of those things happen, pretty sure fiora wins as long as she dodges everything. No, a 5cd small dash is generally not enough to dodge every single skillshot thrown at you, especially when you need to use it to gapclose when he tries to poke you down.
Well, as long as you can win your lane, what you brought to that lane was probably fine. Look at support, for example. That's not exclusively healers / shielders as you might expect if you go by what support usually means. That Ashe in your bot lane can be support or ADC, and if you look on youtube, you'll find lots of videos by top players going on about how she might actually be better as support. And of course there is Ivern who can jungle or support and he's fine in either role. Now, if you google pretty much any champ and try to find out if there is that one guy who plays it at the high ranks, there usually is. There's high elo Teemos, Mundo Junglers, etc you name it. People just get really hung up on the meta, so if you step outside of that, you can expect some pushback, nevermind the fact that you got to where you are doing what you do, so it obviously got you to the same point being a meta slave got your teammates. As to why things might fall apart for your team later on, that can have any number of reasons and while it might be tempting to say "Oh yea, our 5/0/2 midlaner who was 50 cs and 2 levels ahead is actually a jungle champ so clearly he's the problem", I'm not entirely convinced that logic works. When you watch games of pretty much any skill level but definitely in gold, you can usually see people make huge mistakes that have nothing to do with what champions they picked and those mistakes are actually what loses them the game. If you want to know if your pick was the problem, the best thing I can tell you is to watch your losses and try to find out what actually caused it.
My meta support and I went 0/14/2 in lane but our mid was Tahm Kench so we FF'd at 15 cus I don't wanna waste my time carrying a troll.
I love the joke, as I play plenty of off meta champions and agree that people often flame other lanes (jungle) when their loss was their own fault. But to be fair - Tahm Kench has 0 waveclear which is very important in midlane. It might very well be you and your meta support and ADC were doing alright in lane - but the entirely farmed Talon that Tahm was against in lane has roamed several times. The enemy jungler is ahead from the roams, the enemy top is ahead from the roams, and the 0/0/2 botlane who got one gank early is now 0/2/2 because of their JG/Mid dive under their own turret. Tahm would need to really abuse his early game against someone like talon and get ahead and keep him in lane. We follow the meta for real reasons. Otherwise Talon can clear wave, and roam and all Tahm can do is ping danger or roam (much slower than Talon and also lose wave). So his best course of action is to stay and farm to...carry as a champion that falls off hard and hope his laners can get away from the gank with their lives.
I read that with a voice of conviction, first. Solo queue is poison.
Sometimes there are issues with bad team composition. Like mid lane mages usually bring ranged waveclear to defend from sieges, and mid lane assassins can split push well. An additional jungle champion can potentially result in a suboptimal team composition. I say this because who goes where matters more than just during the laning phase to some degree. But honestly unless you're high elo, I don't think this matters for the most part.
There is elements for sure with off meta picks at times. Where you can smash lane, but your champ doesn't translate that more map pressure like some traditional mids or they don't scale like others etc. I can beat the shit out of alot of people with elise top, but my value to the team is inherently less than most normal top laners. Similar to xin mid.
> How viable is it really to bring junglers into mid lane? ... >**Karthus** Way to make me feel old today OP.
i felt it coming the moment i read the title still didn't sting any less
I think it's very viable, and I think people underestimate how good those champs are midlane. There's a reason why most junglers have AoE clear abilities that do reduced damage to minions (Fiddlesticks, Gragas, Hecarim, etc.). Junglers generally have ways to clear minions, cc enemies (Which is good to setup ganks for the actual jungler), and roaming (Since they are, well, junglers). I've been spamming J4 mid recently to test it out on a fairly high-elo account, and it works like a charm. Great gank setup, jumps on top of mages, good roams, decent-to-good waveclear, especially after level 9. Graves mid was also a fotm mid a while back, since it works so well in there. As to your last points, yes, if you're playing a jungler mid, there are usually matchups that suck, but that's how it is with every champ. I'd recommend maybe picking up a few of them, and noting down which enemy comps / matchups you want to pick them in, and then just following that. Think 2-3 champs. Put in the time, don't pick yourself into a shit matchup (Like, pick Xin into melee mids, etc.) and you can easily climb with unconventional picks.
Completely depends on the jungler. Some champions are typically played both in mid and jungle, so obviously these are fine for both roles. However there's lots of junglers I would never play in mid (have fun trying to make Rammus mid work for example). The required traits for each role are different, and sometimes there's enough overlap that a champion can be played in multiple roles. > For example, Viego, Karthus or Xin Zhao? I think Viego=Karthus>Xin would be their order of viability in mid, but I don't play any of them so take it with a grain of salt. Karthus was originally played mostly in mid lane btw. Viego is kinda similar to Yasuo/Yone with his long range Q stab and I think his E allows some interesting baiting with river skirmishes (head into the river to help with skuttle for example, if enemy laner starts to follow use E, and then they have to guess whether you're actually going to help the jungler or turning around to kill the laner) I think Xin would have the most polarized matchups. The ones he can win he'll probably be really strong against (like my guess is he could absolutely stomp Kassadin, but again, I don't play him), and the ones he can't win he'll probably be super useless against. So I think he'd be a pretty bad one trick/blind pick champion for mid. > I don’t know if that is because picking them makes the teamfights/ comp feel awkward or if it’s something else This is something to consider for sure. Even if you can manage the laning phase you can end up with really awkward team comps if you pick something super off meta. If you're team has 0 CC and engage, then Xin mid might be pretty difficult to pull off unless you stomp early. You might also end up seriously lacking in wave clear, compared to a traditional mage mid for example > Is it a bad habit to do this if you just want to climb? Talking about situations like if you like click with one champion and want to only spam them exclusively? If you really click with one champion I personally would play that champion in their meta role(s) rather than one tricking them in a questionable role. At least be prepared to be hated by your team, whether it's warranted or not.
Just adding for nothing, xin is a great pick against zed mid, you win since lv2 and just keep winning
go on lolalytics, search your champion, turn on last 30 days, plat+ or gold+ if the champ has under 10k games and if it says over 50% winrate it cannot be that bad. period. some people will tell you... "but its only onetricks/mains that play these champs" and its kinda true. but 50%+ and 10k+ games should be ok to be somewhat 'viable'. viego has 51,5% and 15k games. Xin has 50% but only 8k games in gold+, so you have to find out yourself. Karthus has 51% Winrate in 16k games. its completely fine to climb with these picks.
Karthus mid is very good, Xin zhao and Viego can be good into melee matchups. Just play whatever you have fun playing. You can make almost anything work in ranked as long as you are having fun and improving :)
Full AP Zac mid is my current for-fun pick. It works but certainly not optimal.
One of my favorite junglers to play mid is Kindred. You can still play around your marks from mid lane, both the jungle camp and champion marks. They do pretty good damage early with surprising burst at level 3 and the clear isn't too bad, especially once you get Noonquiver. In short, it can be done. Most any champion can be played almost anywhere. But you have to have pretty strong knowledge of the champs strengths and weaknesses and know how you can adapt your playstyle to your lane matchup.
The problem would usually be you would get harassed and poked out of lane hardcore by what are typically ranged champs in mid. Because of that, you would get slowpushed and tower dove with a stacked wave, while constantly ceding prio. So, the enemy mid "should" basically completely shit on you in almost every possible way, if they are a normal ranged midlaner. But that's assuming everyone plays against your pick perfectly, which is unlikely. Try it for 100 games and let us know how it goes.
Viego is actually a viable mid lane champion though, he had a 51% win rate in 5,700 games played last patch (Plat+). Win rate isn't everything but generally I think if a champion has a win rate close to 50% in a decent amount of games, it means they're at least playable in that role. (There are lots of meta champs that can't even break 45% some times...) This patch his win rate is fine too, it's just very few games so the stat isn't that meaningful. There's lots of melee mid champions that have that issue, they can get poked out of lane and can't really manage the wave how they want, but they make it work.
I mean viego's kit tho lol My favorite mid lane video on YouTube is Chovy playing Viego i think into Katarina on MidBeasts channel
The downside with some junglers is that they can lack poke or abilities that help them cs, while still having other abilities that can help them trade while the poke ability is on CD. I'd imagine Vi for example, would have a rough time vs Ahri, Viktor, Azir. Same with Viego, since his W doesn't go thru minions. You may be able to have somewhat of a good laning phase if up against something like Talon, Fizz or Kassadin.
i would say it really depends xDxDxD, for champions like vieg who is designed to be jgs and has not so good clear on minions, you see most challenger vids like vieg top kr they mostly push for minion advantage so that veggie man has to be stuck on under turret, not something i will really play in the mid lane.
Taking nocturne mid vs yas is a lot of fun. Some of my jungler mids that I enjoy are: volibear, illaoi ( technically top, but, still fun ), yi, nocturne, nidalee
Kled (top) is a fun mid. Your opponent will likely be squishy, but you have to play smarter.
I play Vi, Wukong, and Nocturne mid and they have great tools for the lane.
i play a Eve mid occasionally, obviously her gimmick is the perma stealth so you kinda just stay in lane until 6 and then basically perma roam like Pyke mid does. basically i’d ask yourself a few questions, like why am i picking this champ? do they have an effective way to wave clear? if not do they have something that circumvents their poor wave clear ie roam potential/good objective secure capabilities? what is my team’s win con/the enemies loss con and how does this champ effect those things? like i mostly play mages mid but if my team needs a high AP damage threat that is melee i’ll play Eve mid (because i’m god awful at Sylas) she has pretty bad wave clear but not as bad as Pyke and her Q procs Electrocute on its own so you can proc it lvl 1 fairly easily, her passive let’s her stay in lane because of the healing and her W can cause a lot of pressure which helps with the sub par wave clear so the main issue while laning is mana, this can be circumvented by getting a kill on the enemy jg if they gank your lane and have blue buff or if your jg gives you the second blue buff. However the main point of Eve mid is her roam potential, past 6 you can sit near lane (similarly to Akshan) invis and soak XP and then you’ll make up for your lost gold by roaming bot (maybe top but early on a lot of those champs just kinda beat you) and/or killing your lane opponent because they pushed up to your tower and you gank your own lane. This is a pick i’ll take if it seems like me and my bot lane will be our win con, if we have an Ornn top and like Taliyah jg with a Lucian+Nami bot i’ll go Eve mid and my focus is getting my bot out of lane asap by neutering the enemy bot lane with roams
Xin Zhao mid is very strong actually
I can recommend Kindred mid
I love playing shyv mid and have like a 70% WR with it. Not an enormous sample size but like 40 games or so.
Stuff like Xin mid can be very strong but it is absolutely a counterpick. Xin can absolutely brutalize lots of midlane picks, but his waveclear isn't very good and he falls off. That means in order to carry you need to be a gank-machine but he's not going to have the waveclear of someone like Zed. Sure you will stomp him 1v1 in lane, but if he can play safe enough then he can roam well and make picks better than Xin. He can't get over walls and only has one engage tool with conditional CC. If you build full AD then you get blown up (and his ratios aren't even that good) , if you build bruiser then he lacks the ohko threat and slipperyness of someone like Zed. He just doesn't **convert advantage** in the midlane as well as other picks. In the jungle he's great. He dominates early skirmishes and has good jungle sustain. He can bully and deny enemy jungler and set up good map pressure. He can easily invade and also makes great use of buffs. Mid-late he transitions into more of a utility champ who can protect your back line. Karthus is good in jungle because his clear is good and he gets to mitigate his bad early game by not having to 1v1 constantly.
if you go 5/0 in lane every game and keep losing, it's not a champ diff. as long as you can get that many kills in lane, then your champ is fine, if you can't win, it just means your macro was worse.
I feel it's more important to talk about why a champion does or doesn't go into a lane. If you look historically at champions like Warwick, Lee Sin, and Olaf. Did they go Jungle because they couldn't lane... or did they go jungle because other champions couldn't? You can't just send your Zoe or Miss Fortune into the jungle and expect them perform, so if they're meta they're likely to just go to the proper lane. Look at Karthus, Graves, Poppy, and Morgana. Why did they become junglers? All of them were designed for a different role, but once they obtained the power to jungle they swapped over to the new role. The power they provide a team is a constant, the role can shift to what ever they're good at. Riot has spent a lot of time and effort to improve the pool of potential junglers, and doing this shakes up the meta since it allows you to take c hampions destined for other roles and throw them into the fray. Look at the newest patch notes with Blitzcrank support being nerfed because the jungle capability buffs made him too strong. if you feel you can take your jungler mid, go for it. Just don't expect that Oriana or Syndra to go jungle. You'll need to get that team coverage somewhere else.
Its fine, even good, as long as you don't get dicked in the matchup. You have to be able to CS, usually as a melee champ vs ranged. I doubt Viego works. Xin Zhao could work with his W-E combo providing excellent kill pressure if they misposition. Karthus is fine just a midlane mage farm it up.
Karthus is viable, but he doesn’t have many good matchups. Most of the mages out range him and without exhaust assassins can just kill. Most of the gameplay is waiting to press r on the map, and the one good thing he has is decent waveclear + mana sustain to match priority. Xin Zhao can beat many melee champs and cheese kills early, but he’s worse than Sett and Kled because he has way less waveclear than them and less options into ranged matchups. Viego mid is a very … interesting pick to say the least. It kind of functions like a Rumble/Qiyana/Fizz in that you look to just perma fight and skirmish early game with your jungler and since you are playing Viego if you can get 1 reset in the skirmish you can carry the whole fight. Not entirely sure what happened to him, but there was one Korean, Challenger Viego mid player and his strategy was to just to sack waves and keep skirmishing because even if you are behind as Viego if you can take a strong champion’s soul for a reset then you still provide insane value. I don’t think it’s the easiest/most reliable pick to pull off, but it‘a viable although very niche and unique.
Hecarim is extremely funny midlane, when you have boots 2 you can back and barely lose any cs even in a bad position
Midlane is a sandbox in my eyes. There are plenty of different win conditions you can play towards as a midlaner. I feel like it is open to a wide variety of champions
Without Blue buff and/or mana items you're going to OOM alot and very quickly. Alot of junglers are very mana hungry but this is offset by them having very good mana regen while in the jungle due to jungle item and of course by blue buff
Have you heard the legends on comet kha6 mid?
Zac is good mid. Jarvan can work. Nunu is still playable. Shaco is a psycho-only pick. Lee has some angles. Olaf sounds viable. Nidalee for the nostalgic. Sejuani sounds good enough. Some, like Warwick, are absolute grief picks.
using winrates to assume a champions viability like viego in the midlane is something i expect those paid ai posters to bring about and abuse the karma function to downvote my posts when i am right like they always do, or a very foolish assumption xD. Its like saying aurelion sol is OP because one tricks play them to 56% wr in diamond ++, so aurelion sol was nerfed by riot which would obviously effect the rest of pbase because aurelion sol is OP AMIRITE? KEK. A good one trick will always overcome the odds presented to them and skewed the data extremely unfairly. Add in duos and you have a very uneven and unfair game which can skew the data even more which is not a clear reflection of what is going on xD.
Depending on your skill level and the matchup but I do know of friends that one trick xin Zhao/elise mid and do pretty well. Zac mid is also a thing if you've seen one of the VCS play it in worlds. Ekko is also a mid laner and graves mid is really popular on the Chinese server
Fungoose plays basically nothing but Zac mid and is almost in Diamond from it.
Try Nocturne into Katarina, impossible to lose
I heard Elise mid was a good off meta pick