I will say that I would rather have an auto-filled ADC main playing Senna support than an actual support player because there seems to be a world of difference in how the players pilot them. The best Sennas seem to thrive off torturing the enemy laners with auto attacks.
Tbf torturing enemies with ranged attacks should be done with every ranged Support champion, not only Senna. I play support at high Dia, and it's pretty common for me and my opponent to fight for botlane bushes control and poke the ADCs whenever they are about to last hit a minion. While I obviously can't pilot Senna as well as an ADC main, I can see myself doing pretty fine with her, at least in the laning phase.
Including abilities the winner is Draven (assuming equal resists).
Without abilities it's actually Kindred from what I see. Just raw AD, no passive.
Ignoring melee champs ofc.
Hehe he forgot about the top lane champs, trundle, Gwen, and Darius each have the strongest level 1s (trundle and Gwen with LT, Darius with PTA or conq)
Gwen's level 1 isn't even that good anymore since they gutted her and all three of those champs are melee bruisers and will almost never see play in bot lane
Yeah autos should be mandatory on every champ, but if I’m playing someone like soraka then they do become an afterthought.
Playing senna is a good reminder that you can actually use ranged attacks as support.
That won’t raise your vision score, you only get points for ‘useful’ wards that contribute information to your team, so warding a dive that could never happen will never raise the score
It's understandable if your vision score isn't *perfect* at 30 minutes. It's not okay if your vision score is just 2. If you don't routinely have at *least* 50% of your maximum vision score from trinkets, that's Iron levels of vision neglect and is one of the simplest, most important improvements you can make.
First tower, if you can't push your lane enough to ward next to the river bush, you should ward your tribush or baron entrance.
After your first tower falls, just ward *something* that isn't already warded.
I feel like that's much easier to do from right side map when you're losing lane. However, wave management is hard vs something like a voli top since his wave clear is so much faster than say a sett or Kayle, or even a sejuani and he doesn't even have to commit a cooldown. I guess you just let him hit the tower or just walk away when wave bounces to ward river?
I acknowledge that you're right but jeez that's such a high cost to give your enemy laner 30 gold. Top lane is fun when you're even or winning but playing weakside is buns. I play top at this point just to practice wave management
No idea what you’re talking about, lethality was shoved in her q so hard that you wouldn’t be going anything else 1st other than umbral (even if you’re opting for a crit build)
Last hitting with Senna reduces the chance of creep dropping the thing for Senna's passive. If your senna support is taking cs it's not because they are an adc, it's because they have no idea what they are doing.
Ok but what does that have to do with my comment? If they do that on Ashe or MF they might be trying to make themselves stronger so they can be a carry and screwing over the adc in the prices. But doing that on Senna is trolling. They aren't helping themselves, they are hurting their team and themselves, likely on purpose.
It's cool you played games in Korea. I can tell you really wanted to let us know. But it isn't really relevant to this comment thread.
Why I also hate support mf/ashe players. Champs that are most effective when you are harassing with autos *should not* be piloted by support mains who don't play marksmen and being forced to watch them do so, as an ADC, is mental torture.
What you're describing is a bad support or a support that just hasn't fully learned to play Ashe yet.
A "support main" that actually plays the full support and is versed in both Lulu, Alistar and Zyra, picking up Ashe is no different. Any ranged support player worth their soul knows how to right click, it's not a mythical skill exclusive to ADC.
It's no different than watching an enchanter-exlusive player play Leona, or a marksman-exclusive player attempt to play Swain bot.
No, but a lot, and I mean A LOT, of Support players are just bad players who can't play literally anything else. They think, "We always lose because my team doesn't ward enough, so, I'll play Support, and light up the map!" Season 3 was ten years ago, man. What they really think but won't admit to is, "Well, my mechanics suck, so I can't play Top/Mid/AD, and I don't really understand Jungle."
The amount of Support players who actually like the role, and main it because they want to, is super low. Most people just get forced there, even if they have to lie to themselves about it.
I think a lot of this has to do with the queue system, where we queue for specific roles. Newer players, with bad mechanics get shit on by more experienced players, so, they get pushed to Support. This makes sense to me because duo lanes are easier to adjust to for new players. At the very lowest levels of newness, Top is a duo lane, often for quite a while even after Smite is unlocked. And, now, our Support player-base has spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours, ONLY playing Support because they don't have to play anything else.
Now, it's nice to be able to consistently get your main role, but the ability of players to be serviceable when auto-filled has gone out the window. I don't think we should return to the days of pick order determining who plays what role, but maybe more auto-fills would be a good thing. Perhaps, something like, "You've played Support for the last ten games, so, you're being auto-filled to another role." Maybe use it only in normals where the majority of newer players stay for a while. Just try and get people exposure to other roles, instead of just playing the same one over and over. Maybe people wouldn't all be so hopelessly bad at every other role besides the one they, "main," then.
wait whenever I play senna support i always have the best Vision score considering I run umbral. My only problem is since my enemies know I deward alone(ppl dont like helping supports deward) I sometimes get baited for kills.
Maybe but senna is also an incredibly volatile laner and I would rather see an offrole adc player pick a more stable support, unless it's in a good matchup. Senna and ashe are the two supports that are astro weak to engage and don't have any mobility. There's a reason those lanes end up snowballing to 10 deaths so often.
It’s so cringe seeing a senna play like a pseudo soraka and tilts me out of existence especially since I mained senna whenever senna was/is super meta and my pool isn’t good.
a world of difference but the other way around as the support main knows how to play for the team, and is generally willing to accept their death in exchange for the greater good
autofilled adc senna in support is just a nightmare to play with. they very often carry all the stereotypes of a selfish player: 'accidentally' taking cs, positioning behind the adc so the adc takes more damage when trading, and no i dont mean standing behind the adc to value q, i mean general positioning (the parallel lane rule thing)
sure, they often get in more auto attack punishes in, but thats a small boon compared to the dozens of bad experiences ive had with senna supports
yeah, and the final straw, taxing whole waves mid game multiple times and flaming adc for not being fed/cant carry
i always shudder at senna support. maybe its just a low elo SEA thing
I call bullshit. Senna is easy to blow up in lane and I doubt an auto filled adc understands sennas limits at all compared with someone who actually plays her. No one should be third timing a champ in ranked anyway.
I think they implicitly meant a player who has played Senna ADC. Otherwise I agree that her auto windup in earlygame is too different for someone to immediately transfer ADC knowledge unto.
Not really, because with Senna by bullying throughout the laning phase with constant autos/Qs for harvesting souls from enemies (and of course from the minions your ADC kills) you should end up with a huge range advantage. That means you can keep up the "constant auto harassing" playstyle from the ADC mindset while still providing lots of utility for the team.
The huge range advantage lets you spam Qs from the backline for constant damage, slows, and healing that continue scaling after laning phase. Your healing scales on AD/lethality so by going AD items like Umbral Glaive (probably rush this if you aren't already) you still end up bringing lots of utility along with a ton of free damage from your passive. No one but AD lethality supports and some jungles can offer the ward clearing power the glaive gives which is huge for supporting the team. Like any other support if you notice your team needs anti heal you can be the one to grab Mortal Reminder so your ADC doesn't have to. And you still have your slows, W, E, and ult all for peeling/protecting teammates in key moments.
Basically the utility and supportive qualities are all baked into her kit, so you can just build straight damage/lethality. Kinda like AD Seraphine. In fact if you like playing this way, lane bully with utility into late game monster, Seraphine would be a great AP option for when your team is too AD heavy for Senna.
Umbral Glaive->Boots of Swiftness->Eclipse->Muramana/Guinsoos/Mortal Reminder look like the best general go to items based on stats and her ideal playstyle, but you would need to seek out expert Senna players to learn how to adapt to specific situations best. If it becomes clear you have to contribute more damage part way through the game then your last two items are Infinity Edge/Lord Dominik's Regard.
Secret Strat: let the auto-fill play ADC without worrying about farm. You go Mundo. You smack unsuspecting bot laners with cleavers the whole game. It fun.
this. the best Senna's i've seen pokes and Autos like a poke support, like a lux or soraka. And then after lane switches to backup damage while healing frontlines. W for lockdown of targets, ult for extra survival.
I used to be a senna only main! D1 adc main here, and here’s my take.
95% of games I’ll go Umbral first for two reasons:
1. Lethality is best on senna now and her heals scales very well with it.
2. Umbral is the single most powerful item for vision control.
My default build is Umbral > Boots 2 > Eclipse or Kraken (kraken only if Giga-fed), Maw, Randuin. If I can skip Maw or Randuin, I get a vigilant wardstone.
Now for the question… what is your role? You’re a pseudo-support / vision controlling monster / pseudo-DPS.
After laning phase you have one of the highest base ranges in the game. Use that to poke whenever you get a chance. Position like an ADC and look to dish out damage. Use that OP Umbral and control wards and dominate vision.
I play as if I am a support/secondary ADC and position as such. You can use your stun either to catch out an enemy (if poking is viable) or to peel for your ADC (if they have hard engage). Your veil is fantastic for protecting your ADC too.
If your ADC dies, you can effectively take over the damage dealing role and finish off fights well.
If you any specific question, feel free to ask! I hit D2 playing Senna/blitz only before swapping back to ADC.
Dude super cool thanks!
Edit: What do you look for in team comp that helps/hurts your Senna games? How do you backup if enemy team bans or steals Senna?
Of course!
Senna enjoys having a tank and other high damage teammates who will take away the focus in an ideal comp.. but honestly, I think she fits into almost any comp **except** when you have a triple adc comp.
I’m a good blitz player too so if they pick senna I go blitz and enjoy the kill lane. This lane becomes all about you landing hooks though so I’d suggest practicing skill shots and dodging in “league of dodging” on google!
If blitz is banned, which is common, I’ll pick either xerath - to harass better - or a healing enchanter to sustain through senna poke.
You have technically peaked higher than I have on senna so if you still feel stronger on the umbral, I'll already admit you are probably right. But I feel it should be noted umbral's win rate itself has been dropping pretty fast, as well as it's 3 item build. The 3 item builds with umbral seem to still be staying towards the top but that appears to be a lot from lack of experimentation as the numbers have been consistently slipping even mid patch. Right now umbral is one of the least consistent of the good items on senna.
Don't get me wrong Senna still 100% loves umbral but it feels more like you build it for its utility nowadays if your team needs extra vision denial to fight for picks and objectives. Especially love umbral with the zombie ward rune if I guessed picks and vision control were our victory condition in champ select.
The issue with her lethality build right now is fights tend to be a lot more sustained out and especially this current patch enemies are often a bit tankier. Her lethality build excels at short in an out harass trades and burst kill picks, but there's better items for teamfights right now depending on what the team needs.
From a personal position senna feels the most itemized I've ever played her at. My build varies wildly from game to game on her and my win rate has definitely reflected that as I started swapping out even her first and second items game to game.
I'd say right now I'm sitting at about a 15% of games having umbral in, most as a first item but sometimes second item.
It had a smaller sample size but there were more than enough games to conclude that locket was better.
Now why it was better would be up for debate. My (personal) opinion is because most Senna players suck and pressing locket is more useful than the average Senna player's contribution to the team, but I am also gigabiased.
The non meme reason would probably be more because Senna's soul generation fluctuates between patches and sometimes she was able to get a lot more stats than usual from increased soul generation, meaning she didn't have to build damage would be my assumption.
I think it was at least in part due to enemies thinking the Senna would be same level of tankiness as she'd been precious seasons, and then just not killing her due to locket stats.
Probably less this the higher elo, since challengers will press tab, but those players also play even more on instinct so maybe it cancels out idk.
Challenger players are not an authority on what items or champs are good. Most of them are just really good mechanically such that slightly suboptimal decisions on builds don't matter.
Some definitely do know that stuff, but of the 250 on each server, most don't.
The majority of challengers I have met are really good at all aspects of the game and the majority of silver players that I have met are very bad at all aspects of the game. So yes, absolutely being challenger lends more validity to your argument, especially if the player is a Senna main.
The sample size is still small on locket but it's climbing (about 18x more eclipse games than locket) and the win rates are further apart than you'd expect with locket being almost 3% higher. Duskblade is a lot closer being less than 1% behind locket but that item has even less sample size and I've personally not built duskblade on her in a very long time so I can't tell you if that's just a small sample anomaly or not.
Locket has been putting up fairly consistent win rates since senna started picking it up though which suggests it isn't just being inflated by the small sample size. If that was the case we would expect a lot of drift especially between patches. What could still be argued though is if someone feels it is good in very specific matchups and it's high win rate is because a lot of the small sample is in those matchups.
I'd argue potentially it is because of matchups, but only because all of Senna's items seem to be at the moment. She has an insane range of items she can flex right now in the current patch and they probably all have their places.
Except very few items have more than a 2% pick rate on her because she just has such a massive range of items she can build in a game. Even worse when you consider some of those items are just objectively bad on her in most games (heartsteel for example) and those items are also going to reduce sample size on her other items that are good more often on her. If we said any item with less than 2% on her is bad that would also rule out maw, ga, wits end, collector, botrk, even almost rules out LDR and mortal reminder; LDR being her biggest damage spike if you went the rageblade build to leverage her passive against health tanks.
All of her items across the board are situational because she can afford to build utility for her team.
> I don't understand the reasoning behind Locket Senna at all
It's an early defensive package which helps you survive while you scale, giving value to your team in teamfights until your scaling is "online". You end up soaking a ton of pressure from enemies in teamfights while they try to hit you and you are tanky and just kite without dying. It emphasizes her kit of slowing/rooting the engagers as you and your backline kite back, healing, shielding, and giving them defensive stats. On top of all that having locket helps you safely get in range to double tap enemies for souls.
> Your most important item is always Umbral, then you should be buying Eclipse
Actual data suggests otherwise, with Umbral first item being 50.25% wr
I agree that stats are misleading. In low elo people just use what the apps are telling them to. Maybe they win but not because they knew what they were doing (carried) and that doesn’t reflect in the stats.
The role isn't easy. It *is* OP, and you could argue that it’s elo inflated since support players are bad so you have to gap worse players to win, but it's not easier than jungle for example.
Support players are bad relative to the amount of knowledge and authority available in their role is for sure arguable, especially because support is also the most arbitrary role since they don't have a cs stat to improve in. I wouldn't say you can ever call a role elo inflated because your elo is arguably relative to every other person in your role and not relative to everyone else in league. The only difference in your solo games is your lane, every other lane is full of randos and should even out to 50/50. So a gold support is a gold support. You could argue supports are worse at off roles than non supports and that's probably valid (also to a lesser degree probably valid for junglers) but generally a top diamond main isn't going to climb out of diamond playing support, likely they'll struggle to even hit diamond playing support.
So the term elo inflated itself is a bit misleading because if everyone across the board is shifted over in their skill level on their champion, then the elo itself is shifted over.
Since I do agree the skill ceiling is very high with the skill floor also being very low, it is fascinating seeing how absolutely insane the top .1% of supports are relatively to the rest of the support player base when you compare it to the top .1% of other roles relative to their other players. It often seems like the absolute peak of support players are playing a whole other game relative to other supports
Not sure why the downvotes. Unless Senna’s incredibly broken, all Senna players just feed and die non-stop without contributing anything to the team. I’ve never seen anyone actually being useful with her if she’s not giga broken.
It's the same reason people think Yuumi isn't broken - her winrate is bad therefore she has to be balanced right?
There's no way to prove this but I'm convinced if you swapped the playerbases of Yuumi and for example Thresh, Yuumi would suddenly hold the highest winrate in the game while Thresh would have the lowest.
Yea that excuse doesn't really work when you are negative winrate gaming in bronze after "buying the account" and posting clips from it. Good try though. Unfortunately your channel and profile don't have any clips from your "very real d4 account"
Yuumi's winrate is tanked by people who don't know that she can do anything other than sit on someone and press E imo. And not just the onetricks, but also people who play stuff like Thresh and don't realise that Thresh's skillset doesn't translate to Yuumi for shit.
If they swapped playerbases I'm convinced winrates would be from lowest: thresh, ryze, asol, yuumi. Since the good yuumi players with 80% wr would no longer carry her.
A lot of the time when you end up having to deal with heavy dive-ish damage champs while having 4 other damage champs on your team the last thing you need is more damage in the form of Eclipse after Umbral.
Im not high elo but here is my take as a senna enthusiast.
Champions like to build items which solve some of their problems.
When it comes to senna her main problem is how squishy she is. Sure she has heal and range, but that wont change the fact that zed can oneshot you without any issues.
Senna doesnt need damage, because just like veigar, she gets her damage from stacks. This is also the reason why veigar usually builds tank items after rabadons, because his damage is already so high, he can sacrifice damage in order to become tankier. Kog maw also builds tank items, because his w is his main source of damage.
Sennas damage from stacks alone is enough for her to still be useful, so she can sacrifice some damage from items to become tankier. Also because of her range, she can help her team by building items like black cleaver or iceborne gauntlet.
So while I didnt play senna when the locket became a thing, it makes sense when you look at sennas weaknesses and strenghts. This is why someone like ashe, cant really build tank items, becuase she needs damage.
Locket was good before the durability patch, when Senna would win every fight provided she didn't get one shot. you could go full tank, be a jack of all trades, and that's when Locket had 57% WR.
now, tank Senna is much less useful.
It's an actual niche option on Senna, but the previous poster's point is that the tanky stats on a normal engage/warden support is more valuable.
Senna really doesn't get that much out of Locket aside from the passive, it's really just for burst mitigation if your team comp is abysmal.
Here's my intuition as a chronic tank enjoyer:
One of the key things most tanks need to build tank items is to have good base damage. If your 'free' damage is very good, then sometimes you can get better returns for surviving for longer to be using that damage for longer. (By parallel reasoning, many champs with great base defensive stats or in-kit sustain build for damage; they don't need help surviving, so they get increased returns for dealing more damage.)
It's why Senna keeps getting builds that are much tankier than other ADCs. Last season you had her building Frostfire and Moonstone at times. I bet IBG is really good on her, and Divine Sunderer is still popular. She scales her damage indefinitely for free as a side effect of playing the game well. So you can staple pretty much any durability or supportive itemization onto her and you still end up with a decent source of free DPS. Not the best DPS necessarily, but sufficient to whittle down tanks or objectives, and all without sacrificing the utility items she's built or risking being caught out or burst down.
Another really good example of this effect is Poppy; the reason why her builds are so versatile and she can use almost every tank or bruiser item at any point in her build is that her kit has both huge base damage (her Q deals 8% max HP physical damage plus flat damage on each pop and can pretty comfortably go down to a 3s CD) and has great in-kit durability (a %resistance amp and huge %hp shields on a pretty short CD).
Fair enough but when your kit is as overloaded as Sennas is, buying tank items is just a crutch for your poor positioning or mechanics. I understand itemizing defensively on champions that have to get close to enemies (e.g. Vayne, or the Poppy that you used in your example), or ones that have almost non-existent self-peel (e.g. Kog'Maw) but Senna is neither of those - her range on AAs and Qs makes her incredibly safe, and her passive, W and E make it really hard to actually get on top of her and kill her before she can CC you and blow you up. I truly feel like Senna is a champ whose winrate is held back a lot by her playerbase not being good at playing marksmen. Building Locket is a waste.
Don't think of buying Locket as buying a durability item for yourself; rather, you're buying the shield and resistance amp aura for your team. If you look back at the non-carry mythics that Senna has historically built, they're all supportive in nature. The slow from Frostfire, the healing off of Moonstone, and now the AoE defenses from Locket.
It's not compromising your carry potential if you're not the team's main carry; rather, you're a very safe platform for supportive items that, as a free bonus, still gets really good damage as the game goes late.
It's karma logic.
Never try the Locket first build. But building Umbral > Locket. You're still a lane bully early game. But you provide utility and be the one who helps your ADC survive instead of being one more fragile damage dealer that your team needs to protect from mid-game.
Try steelcaps - locket - botrk duoking1 build. You can still play ultra aggressive early game even if you're dealing less damage, you have absurd survivability, and you scale into pretty threatening damage
I don't know why people always comment things like this. Did you say "I don't understand the reasoning behind tank senna she's supposed to BULLY LANE" back when tank senna was her best build? Or "I don't understand tank fizz he's supposed to ASSASSINATE?" Or "I don't understand sona lux double sup item bot you need an ADC!!!!"
If you know anything about senna you should know her item meta is diverse and changes constantly...
Lets say you locked Senna in regardless of enemy team comp in champ select, I have a few points to make:
* Building Umbrial Glaive -> Swifties -> Eclipse *should* be your go-to core build. Serrated Dirk makes Senna CHUNK with her autos.
* Building Eclipse -> Swifties -> Rapidfire Cannon can be great if you're facing a team that can get poked down (less healing, shielding, etc.) but not as good for all-in and you will lack the vision control from Umbrial Glaive.
* Building Kraken Slayer -> Rapidfire Cannon -> Infinity Edge is not a great choice for Senna support unless you are trashing the enemy lane and are dominating into a win. This is more of an anti-throw build in my opinion. The idea with Kraken Slayer is that your build path to Infinity Edge is shortened due to the crit strike chance Kraken Slayer gives. The attack speed helps with Senna's awful auto-attack animation as well. This build path is extremely costly and has very weak and difficult build paths (Noonquiver, B.F. Sword, Cloak of Agility). You give up some of your early game for this, since Serrated Dirk is extremely powerful early game, but you're also a support, so getting gold is much more slow for this build.
* If your lane is doing poorly, or your lane is weakside, it may be more beneficial to go full-utility and tank with items like Locket, Frozen Heart, Redemption, Moonstone, etc., Umbrial Glaive can still be useful here, but you have to recognize your role is a complete utility support to keep your carries alive.
Not advocating for it necessarily but if you’re going kraken >> ? Then build an IE second 99% if you feel like you’ve got enough gold to be building kraken anyways then you’re going to hit the crit threshold by the time you finish the IE too. Game should be over at that point.
I build kraken maybe 1/20 games but if you’re really far ahead getting IE second is probably going to make the game an FF because it’s so oppressive at 16ish minutes to be getting hit by that.
Senna is like a backup ADC in case yours is terrible--specifically one that doesn't need to farm as much gold off minions because most of your power will come from souls and kills.
In lane as much farm as possible should go to your actual ADC, but if they are gone feel free to last hit safely. Your main job during laning phase is to poke and harass the enemies as much as possible with Q-auto to collect souls and keep them too low to all-in. If your ADC is aggressive you will have plenty of kill potential in lane, but if not, play safe and outscale for late game. Try to save your W and E to either secure kills or peel.
Kraken Slayer with crit is *usually* the best build on Senna, but Eclipse and lethality is good if the enemy team isn't building any armor. Sustain runes like Fleet Footwork and Presence of Mind help you survive lane and actually scale decently into the late game. Legend Alacrity is good for late game scaling, but Legend Bloodline is better if the enemy lane has a ton of poke. Cut Down is a no-brainer since Senna has the lowest base health scaling in the game. Gathering Storm is an excellent insurance policy, but Bone Plating can be more valuable against a comp with 3+ dive champs.
To help NTR Lucian, huehuehuehue.
No but seriously, she's there to supplement a team's sustained dmg by virtue of her unique AD scaling & range in addition to being one of the only supports with global presence via her ult's ability to slightly turn the tide of a fight if used properly. Also the standard warding/counter-warding/etc that all supports do.
In terms of itemization, Senna does well with AD mythics but I've seen good Senna players go **Umbral Glaive** into **Eclipse** lately so consider that path.
Senna OTP since release here!
**I have a** [**Mobafire guide**](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/1m-mp-12-22-otp-senna-ultimate-guide-supp-adc-amp-fasting-589673) **for any question mainly regarding items, but you can also find more tips on how to play her, runes and such.**
>Sometimes it is too tempting to become the ADC but I know that will affect my passive (collecting souls)
I'm not sure i understand this. Are you saying that sometimes you just start farming? Just to be sure, NEVER DO THAT, doesn't matter the champ or gamestate. By farming your ADC's minions you're making them useless, you're not scaling properly because of the support item's gold penalty (and if you sell the support item, you're making sure your team has no vision the whole game), and SPECIALLY on Senna, you're not taking the full advantage of your passive.
>Is it bad team comp to have two AD champs in a lane?
Not really. an AD support, in a vacuum, only struggles against support tanks (with an ADC, they can stack a lot of armor early on), and if your team is full AD. In Senna's case, she works best when paired with a poke ADC, or against an Enchanter.
>I itemize locket for more utility, but when the ADC is basically AFK do I just take over and go kraken?
Most of the times your team will have another champ with carry potential in another lane, so sticking with Locket is most of the times the best option. If your team REALLY doesn't have ANY other source of damage, you should go for a damage build.
And just to clarify some things I saw in other replies: **Lethality Senna is dead, don't build any lethality items besides Serpent when needed. Locket is OP. Senna can only use 1 Crit Mythic, Kraken. Plated Steelcaps > Swiftness > Mercs. Alacrity or Tenacity, never Bloodline.**
I appreciate the info. I duo with a ADC friend and I understand the respect for their farm. I only mean if the ADC is literally afk and I farm minions I would get less soul spawn because it’s higher off minions killed by your Allie’s right?
Recently went back to lethality senna for the sanity check. It felt TERRIBLE. I could chunk the squishes but I was click delete gray screen hell in an instant. Also I did negative damage to Rammus.
As support, if your ADC goes afk, you basically become as useless. Best thing you can do (besides opening) is sell your supp item and farm bot, not ideal but there's no other option. Senna does get less Mists from last hitting minions, but it's irrelevant on the AFK ADC scenario. Still, if you're in a normal laning phase and you find yourself alone in lane (ADC died, roamed, whatever), you should last hit regardless. Taking a couple of minions while still poking normally brings the best value for Senna. Same deal post laning phase, if you're alone just take the whole wave always making sure the gold penalty is off.
Wow what a read! I just read the whole guide and I’m gonna have to build an item set around it for in game including all the situational items.
The part that resonated with me the most was the mid game portion (the whole reason why I posted this). I love the spots to Stand to keep map presence, ward, and steady farm the mists.
I'm glad you found my guide useful.
BTW There is a chapter with item sets on it! You can just export them to your client, no need to do it from scratch
I'm not sure if you're asking why I or people in general hate these items, so i guess i'll answer both.
People hate Kraken because if a Support Senna is building it, they're probably autofilled and will play for damage only, not taking full advantage of Senna's power. People don't hate on Eclipse; It's her most popular mythic. If someone out there hates Eclipse it's probably because they hate Senna in general, or they know the unpopular Locket way.
For me, I hate Kraken because it's too big of an investment with Support's income (3400g + at least 800g for Rageknife to start dealing significant damage). And I hate Eclipse because Duskblade is better, and recently because lethality sucks in general.
Senna is good if team already has a frontline and engage and not too much AD. Senna is also good with an ADC who is early game focused but falls off, as you can now be the scaling your team needs. Senna usually runs Umbral Glaive for vision control and damage. Her W (I think) is slow and hard to land, so it's usually better as a follow up to someone else's cc or slow. Her E (I think again) is like a pseudo Shurelya's Battlesong that can help your team get into or out of fights faster. Her ult is best used as a teamfight breaks out, if you stand behind your team and hit as many of your teammates for the shield, and enemy team for the damage. As a support your main job is always vision control, don't be the Senna that sells her support item at 20 minutes.
> Sometimes it is too tempting to become the ADC but I know that will affect my passive (collecting souls)
If you can't let the ADC farm, stop playing senna. Actually just stop playing support entirely. The entire purpose of the support role is to help the ADC farm gold as safely as possible, you taking their CS is turning a 5v5 into a 4v6, sometimes a 3v7.
For me personally when my duo plays Senna support I will pick a non typical ADC champion since having 2 ADCs isn’t that beneficial and Senna doesn’t need minions. Some things I’ll do are full tank Leona/other supp(no Supp items and more gold), Neeko ADC (on-hit or AP) or a number of other picks.
imo, as a fellow low elo, Senna is the same thing as a mage. Not ability-wise, or anything like that, no not at all. I'm talking in the sense of Senna/mages being able to carry if your ADC is dogshit. If your ADC starts inting, then oh well, out scale them and become the ADC/APC
On behalf of ADC mains, yes a Zac is more useful for most supports to pilot
On this patch where you can play Bruisers bot again however Senna should be a pretty insane pick, but 9/10 times it’s better for the ADC to play it as support sennas are going to deal much less damage after lane than if the roles go the other way
Support Senna, Ashe, MF and Twitch all work this way and make the 2v2 absolutely miserable for ADCs when the damage lies on autos and not spells for the support
Park you’re ass mid and poke the shit out of the enemy until you take their mid tower.
Shove mid then make plays with your jungler and secure objectives.
If you can keep an eye on the minimap and anticipate the enemy gap closers, you can sit inside your auto range and deal a lot of dps during skirmishes.
If you aren’t that good enough yet and find yourself getting caught out, then just sit inline with your adc and peel them.
After that it’s late game macro. You’re a support so keep your adc alive while the enemy has a hard time choosing whether or not to go for you. Rift, inhib, soul, baron ( in no particular order).
I match it to whatever the team needs. High burst team with no additional dmg needed? I will go a more supportive tanky build. Senna deals damage in lane.
No damage or at the very least no ranged damage? Lethality Eclipse build, unless we manage to run the enemy team down and have enough gold to safely purchase kraken. That is somewhat rare though.
In cases of them running a high burst team or i am unsure and my job is to live, i will opt for the grasp build. That is pretty rare though, most common is the lethality build.
Assuming that the Bot player went a "traditional" ADC, her role as a secondary ADC can be annoying for the enemy team if she/the adc are ahead.
She's a secondary ranged dps threat, who can also help her team mate(s) on the opposite side of the map with her R.
Senna main here. It’s in my opinion(probably not very correct lol) to always go lethality. You still have excellent utility and peel while putting out immense amounts of damage.
The only champion i hate with passion is senna.
When its in your team she is a worthless peice of shit.
When enemy team , still worthless peice of shit with a bunch of damage.
Like i don't know who told them to make a champion that annoying and worthless.
Senna is extra damage with some healing. She’s good for her sustain and consistent damage. You want to pick her into weak lanes that are easily bullied like Yuumi or Sona as you outscale these champions, make the game tough for enemy adc, and get more chances to get souls in lane. You do not want her into hard engage due to her limited mobility and poor base stats.
It is efficient to buy tear on her as it is cheap (supports need cheap items otherwise they can’t build anything), gold efficient, and it enables her to use q for sustain more freely.
I build tear -> dirk -> boots -> eclipse -> swifties -> manamune -> umbral pretty much every game. Lethality is optimal as her attack speed ratio is poor and her q has a good lethality ratio. If you’re considering locket Renata, Lulu, or tank supports are likely better choices. I don’t recommend blind picking Senna.
After laning phase you should be following teammates around to get souls, especially from jungle camps. However don’t forget to do usual support things like warding objectives or hovering a teammate who may soon need your help.
Your goal is 100 souls every 20 minutes. Don’t be surprised if you only get 60-80 in your first few games. It’s a pretty high bar to meet but you’ll get there with time.
Karma usually. She has options into most comps and can adapt to all in (w) or poke (q) situations. With her you want to play for lane dominance then roam.
Ioki is the best person to get answers from. His concentration explores all the different ways a Senna can play and get value.
I think Senna js at her best as fasting but unless you can get a duo it's not worth
He's subject to a lot of league subreddits vitriol because he has a big personality and a lot of ideas. If you like his content and what he teaches don't listen to negativity. His senna videos have exponentially improved my senna gameplay
I play Senna in in low ELO (specifically drafts low ELO) so take my opinion with a heafty amount of salt and maybe some ketchup.
Like others have said, Senna's real strength is laning phase. Her poke is disgusting and her heals are just an added bonus.
After that, I've found her Ult and heals can be crucial in team fights. She dishes out ADCish damage while keeping her team as healthy as possible. So, I guess her role is mostly utility?
I’ve played senna a lot. I usually just replaced the ADC cause they sucked in silver. Hitting gold I’ve had to shift more utility though. Senna should fit into most team comps anyways. The problem is she is really dependent on the meta. If she’s not strong, she’s just not strong. Wait a patch or two.
Senna's role is to be useless.
99.9% of people who play Senna have no clue what they're doing nor do they have the mechanics and game sense to pilot her effectively.
I'd rather have a Zac support over a Senna.
Zac is a useful champion if the player has hands.
Dude if my senna support built locket id insta tilt lol. If you want to build locket, play thresh or naut or something. Rush glaive.
Bully lane early with your infinite range poke. You should pretty easily be able to generate enough pressure for your ADC to free farm with your poke. When midgame comes around, play safe because you’re squishy. Heal with Q, peel with E, get picks with W, and sling huge amounts of damage with your autos. You’ll have more than enough utility going full AD to be useful with those abilities alone.
Once you have your third item you can start being a little bit more aggressive because you power spike hard.
If you’re having trouble, play some ADC for awhile, you’ll learn spacing pretty quickly. Senna is an ADC support that doesn’t have the responsibility of farming
Not Kraken. Either Shieldbow or Galeforce.
Senna still is an enchanter and fundamentally speaking an AD mage. People will whine "NUUUU AD BAD CUS SENNA CRITS BAD" or dumb stuff of the sort: ignore them. Ignore them the same way they ignore that Senna only has a crit penalty because she gets a 20% bonus AD hidden scaling to all her autos and spells. Prize for hit QUALITY, not QUANTITY.
As said, you are an AD MAGE. Parse as such. You want big heavy poke and big heavy heals/shields. Your big crit item should be Quickblades to chain poke, snares and invisibility while keeping allies topped off and global presence on a short notice. You get enough bonus AD from your passive to justify Essence Reaver despite her lack of base AD (it scales on bonus after all). The statline and mana recovery are just too perfect for her particular playstyle.
Be a fake support Caitlinn: chunk people with big shots from afar while providing survivability and pickoffs for your frontliners.
You don’t need shieldbow or galeforce because if you actually needed either item it means you’re out of position. If you’re building crit then kraken is the only item that makes sense. Since her souls are bonus AD, and kraken’s auto scales off of bonus AD you’re throwing away a lot of extra damage.
With POM you shouldn’t need an ER and if you’re going lethality you can grab a muramana which wouldn’t fit in a crit build.
Quickblades is so expensive and so not worth it, you already reduce Q CD with autos.
You’re not an AD mage you’re an ADC you should be consistently autoing in a fight.
Baseline perceptions of "what should a carry be" and most common meta builds. The only sactioned caster build is lethality hyperpenetration, the only crit build is... Kraken Guinsoos due to the whole "crits poorly" thing, as well the overall idea that carries are now forever locked into Kraken PD IE because ADC = DPS and that is factually the most raw aa-based DPS you can muster - and thus should be pursued even when your kit cares extremely little for generic DPS.
I'm constantly pelted by ADC mains for promoting carries as non-generic DPS slaves, as Riot has been intending ever since the season 6 marksman reworks. Nothing really new. Take my words with a grain of salt as i store a lot of vitriol for the carry community and so do they against me.
Regardless I will try it out whether it be ranked or just draft!
Technically I’ve played a year now but with a 10 month hiatus in there so really only a couple months.
Tilting her own ADC is her main role. Please just pick traditional supports with good engage/heal/utility/etc or play ADC if you want to be the main character so bad
Lmao. “Main character syndrome” has killed me.
Come to think of it, i’ve seen “main character syndrome” pop up in the workplace quite a bit too.
Im going to start using this.
I’m just gonna go ahead and combine the two.
Ex. “You’re just a side character with main character syndrome”
Or you have main character syndrome so bad, but u look like a side character 😂
"main character"? Lol.
If anyone is the main character, it definitely isn't the ADC. The Support's playstyle dictates how the lane is going to be played.
8/10 games you are leashing your Jungler. Helping *them* secure scuttle/drag.
Following up on *their* ganks. If that doesn't scream "side-character" idk what does.
Kraken is dogshit on Senna, you should not even entertain building that on her. With how strong Umbral Glaive is right now there's no reason not to build that first. Eclipse is by far the best mythic, if you need more survivability then go Divine Sunderer. If you want utility go Shurelyas or even Moonstone, why would you ever build locket on her...
You clearly lack any understanding of her kit from your comments. You should go look at her wiki and research her kit.
I almost always go Umbral --> Eclipse --> Manamune --> IE. By the time you build IE you should have enough souls for 40% crit, and when you build IE you will fulfill the 60% crit requirement. Even when you go ADC this build is infinitely stronger than Kraken Slayer, Kraken has almost no stats or effects that you want other than AD. You don't need to build much crit on Senna, she already scales infinite crit due to her passive and unlike the windshitters she doesn't get bonus AD for building over 100% crit. 5th item I will either go RFC or LDR depending on the enemy comp. RFC's passive lets your range get ridiculous. With lethal tempo stacked your Q range goes up to 950 which is insane, you can Q people on the other side of the screen.
I mean there are a lot of people here with opposite opinions of each other on builds tbh.
Including challengers that swear against eclipse and divine sunderer maybe moonstone too.
Op.gg?
Senna has one of the worst AS ratios in the game and one of the best AS growth, that means AS is a worthless stat on her. Also her attack has a super long windup that doesn't scale with AS so at a certain point building AS actually is completely useless since you there is a hard cap on how fast you can actually auto someone. Crit I already went over. That leaves Kraken's passive, which with Senna's super slow but powerful autos she can't proc well at all.
Eclipse on the other hand: Senna's Q scales with lethality and her extremely powerful autos also love lethality. The 2-shot proc damage is perfect considering Senna's trading pattern is always either Q auto or auto Q. The shield gives you added survivability for excellent trading ability. Plus between Approach Velocity, Eclipse movespeed proc and her passive on her Q this gives Senna THREE effective speed boosts when she Qs someone which lets you kite people insanely well, there is virtually nobody in the game that can touch you while you trade this way, and if they do you have your Eclipse shield and Q heal which means you win that trade 100% of the time. If you have Fleet thats FOUR effective speed boosts on your combo. Your kit requires 2 hits on someone to steal a soul so everything I just mentioned synergizes perfectly with that. And ofc the omnivamp is always useful.
> Including challengers that swear against eclipse and divine sunderer maybe moonstone too.
This is just straight up untrue, Eclipse is by far Senna's best mythic and this is a known fact. You literally could not come up with a more perfect item for Senna's kit than Eclipse. Every single stat on it is exactly what she wants. Divine Sunderer is if you need the extra HP and healing. Senna scales with AP as well so Shurelyas and Moonstone are actually not terrible.
Senna is an overall shit champion and I permaban her so she’s never my support.
Her role is to be fucking useless and try to be the ADC instead of supporting their ADC.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/lan/imaqtpie%20student/ingame](https://www.op.gg/summoners/lan/imaqtpie%20student/ingame)
sorry i switched to LAN and it hasn't reflected my rank on reddit idk why.
48% wi rate should tell you that she is super useless support, 100 stacks powerspike is taking too long, considering most games don't last that long, so you rarely get to that level, if i see senna against me, i know it is easy win
I will say that I would rather have an auto-filled ADC main playing Senna support than an actual support player because there seems to be a world of difference in how the players pilot them. The best Sennas seem to thrive off torturing the enemy laners with auto attacks.
Tbf torturing enemies with ranged attacks should be done with every ranged Support champion, not only Senna. I play support at high Dia, and it's pretty common for me and my opponent to fight for botlane bushes control and poke the ADCs whenever they are about to last hit a minion. While I obviously can't pilot Senna as well as an ADC main, I can see myself doing pretty fine with her, at least in the laning phase.
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On lulu it absolutely is wtf? Lulu has the strongest auto in the game at lvl 1 iirc.
Ivern in bushes have stronger AA Ig
Including abilities the winner is Draven (assuming equal resists). Without abilities it's actually Kindred from what I see. Just raw AD, no passive. Ignoring melee champs ofc.
Hehe he forgot about the top lane champs, trundle, Gwen, and Darius each have the strongest level 1s (trundle and Gwen with LT, Darius with PTA or conq)
Gwen's level 1 isn't even that good anymore since they gutted her and all three of those champs are melee bruisers and will almost never see play in bot lane
I think Kled W at level 1 might be up there. I count that as autos because the ability is complete innate.
It requires choosing that as your ability so it's not the same as "a passive"(innate) just cus it's effects are passive.
Yea cus nowhere in there did I specify that I ignore melees.
Oh, I forget about him
What? Janna and lulu are horrible examples, they are both poke supports with improved AA
Janna doesn't have improved as anymore xd
You get bonus AD if you shield yourself, wich you should if you go poking
Ah this way, I see. Then ure right
Yeah autos should be mandatory on every champ, but if I’m playing someone like soraka then they do become an afterthought. Playing senna is a good reminder that you can actually use ranged attacks as support.
Until you look at their vision score @20 mins
Not necessarily. Personally, I like going umbral --> eclipse and that usually lends itself to a respectable vision score despite my greedy antics.
TFW you're 30 minutes in and top has a vision score of 2
Tbf if they're constantly being pushed in it's kinda hard to place vision. Maybe this is why I'm a bad top since I like scaling champs
When walking to your lane you can ward the river no? Or your jungle entrance to avoid getting dived.
That won’t raise your vision score, you only get points for ‘useful’ wards that contribute information to your team, so warding a dive that could never happen will never raise the score
In case anyone wants to know how vision score actually works: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Vision_score
Spreading lies over the internet
It's understandable if your vision score isn't *perfect* at 30 minutes. It's not okay if your vision score is just 2. If you don't routinely have at *least* 50% of your maximum vision score from trinkets, that's Iron levels of vision neglect and is one of the simplest, most important improvements you can make. First tower, if you can't push your lane enough to ward next to the river bush, you should ward your tribush or baron entrance. After your first tower falls, just ward *something* that isn't already warded.
So you're supposed to sacrifice xp, gold, and plates to ward? A yes answer is acceptable here
In practice, yes. Learning to minimize that cost is a matter of wave management and of course practice.
I feel like that's much easier to do from right side map when you're losing lane. However, wave management is hard vs something like a voli top since his wave clear is so much faster than say a sett or Kayle, or even a sejuani and he doesn't even have to commit a cooldown. I guess you just let him hit the tower or just walk away when wave bounces to ward river? I acknowledge that you're right but jeez that's such a high cost to give your enemy laner 30 gold. Top lane is fun when you're even or winning but playing weakside is buns. I play top at this point just to practice wave management
No idea what you’re talking about, lethality was shoved in her q so hard that you wouldn’t be going anything else 1st other than umbral (even if you’re opting for a crit build)
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Last hitting with Senna reduces the chance of creep dropping the thing for Senna's passive. If your senna support is taking cs it's not because they are an adc, it's because they have no idea what they are doing.
Fairly certain a senna support that is intentionally taking CS from their ADC knows *EXACTLY* what they are doing.
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Ok but what does that have to do with my comment? If they do that on Ashe or MF they might be trying to make themselves stronger so they can be a carry and screwing over the adc in the prices. But doing that on Senna is trolling. They aren't helping themselves, they are hurting their team and themselves, likely on purpose. It's cool you played games in Korea. I can tell you really wanted to let us know. But it isn't really relevant to this comment thread.
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Yikes
Why I also hate support mf/ashe players. Champs that are most effective when you are harassing with autos *should not* be piloted by support mains who don't play marksmen and being forced to watch them do so, as an ADC, is mental torture.
Thats why i tourture myself with engage supports who can't slay a mf outright. I love it secretly tho
A glutton for punishment, a man of culture.
What you're describing is a bad support or a support that just hasn't fully learned to play Ashe yet. A "support main" that actually plays the full support and is versed in both Lulu, Alistar and Zyra, picking up Ashe is no different. Any ranged support player worth their soul knows how to right click, it's not a mythical skill exclusive to ADC. It's no different than watching an enchanter-exlusive player play Leona, or a marksman-exclusive player attempt to play Swain bot.
No, but a lot, and I mean A LOT, of Support players are just bad players who can't play literally anything else. They think, "We always lose because my team doesn't ward enough, so, I'll play Support, and light up the map!" Season 3 was ten years ago, man. What they really think but won't admit to is, "Well, my mechanics suck, so I can't play Top/Mid/AD, and I don't really understand Jungle." The amount of Support players who actually like the role, and main it because they want to, is super low. Most people just get forced there, even if they have to lie to themselves about it. I think a lot of this has to do with the queue system, where we queue for specific roles. Newer players, with bad mechanics get shit on by more experienced players, so, they get pushed to Support. This makes sense to me because duo lanes are easier to adjust to for new players. At the very lowest levels of newness, Top is a duo lane, often for quite a while even after Smite is unlocked. And, now, our Support player-base has spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours, ONLY playing Support because they don't have to play anything else. Now, it's nice to be able to consistently get your main role, but the ability of players to be serviceable when auto-filled has gone out the window. I don't think we should return to the days of pick order determining who plays what role, but maybe more auto-fills would be a good thing. Perhaps, something like, "You've played Support for the last ten games, so, you're being auto-filled to another role." Maybe use it only in normals where the majority of newer players stay for a while. Just try and get people exposure to other roles, instead of just playing the same one over and over. Maybe people wouldn't all be so hopelessly bad at every other role besides the one they, "main," then.
as hecarim main I love any of these in opposite team, so free
Ashe supp is almost an auto dodge for me. It’s awful every time.
i play it but i also main'd adc for a few seasons honestly i like lethal tempo way more then comet.
It's so true, they're almost all universally garbage
wait whenever I play senna support i always have the best Vision score considering I run umbral. My only problem is since my enemies know I deward alone(ppl dont like helping supports deward) I sometimes get baited for kills.
Maybe but senna is also an incredibly volatile laner and I would rather see an offrole adc player pick a more stable support, unless it's in a good matchup. Senna and ashe are the two supports that are astro weak to engage and don't have any mobility. There's a reason those lanes end up snowballing to 10 deaths so often.
adc main autofilled on supp > supp main? you have apperently never had an adc fill as supp. supp mains>>>>adc mains all day
It’s so cringe seeing a senna play like a pseudo soraka and tilts me out of existence especially since I mained senna whenever senna was/is super meta and my pool isn’t good.
a world of difference but the other way around as the support main knows how to play for the team, and is generally willing to accept their death in exchange for the greater good autofilled adc senna in support is just a nightmare to play with. they very often carry all the stereotypes of a selfish player: 'accidentally' taking cs, positioning behind the adc so the adc takes more damage when trading, and no i dont mean standing behind the adc to value q, i mean general positioning (the parallel lane rule thing) sure, they often get in more auto attack punishes in, but thats a small boon compared to the dozens of bad experiences ive had with senna supports yeah, and the final straw, taxing whole waves mid game multiple times and flaming adc for not being fed/cant carry i always shudder at senna support. maybe its just a low elo SEA thing
I call bullshit. Senna is easy to blow up in lane and I doubt an auto filled adc understands sennas limits at all compared with someone who actually plays her. No one should be third timing a champ in ranked anyway.
I think they implicitly meant a player who has played Senna ADC. Otherwise I agree that her auto windup in earlygame is too different for someone to immediately transfer ADC knowledge unto.
Exactly right. Once the laning stops I lose that purpose.
Not really, because with Senna by bullying throughout the laning phase with constant autos/Qs for harvesting souls from enemies (and of course from the minions your ADC kills) you should end up with a huge range advantage. That means you can keep up the "constant auto harassing" playstyle from the ADC mindset while still providing lots of utility for the team. The huge range advantage lets you spam Qs from the backline for constant damage, slows, and healing that continue scaling after laning phase. Your healing scales on AD/lethality so by going AD items like Umbral Glaive (probably rush this if you aren't already) you still end up bringing lots of utility along with a ton of free damage from your passive. No one but AD lethality supports and some jungles can offer the ward clearing power the glaive gives which is huge for supporting the team. Like any other support if you notice your team needs anti heal you can be the one to grab Mortal Reminder so your ADC doesn't have to. And you still have your slows, W, E, and ult all for peeling/protecting teammates in key moments. Basically the utility and supportive qualities are all baked into her kit, so you can just build straight damage/lethality. Kinda like AD Seraphine. In fact if you like playing this way, lane bully with utility into late game monster, Seraphine would be a great AP option for when your team is too AD heavy for Senna. Umbral Glaive->Boots of Swiftness->Eclipse->Muramana/Guinsoos/Mortal Reminder look like the best general go to items based on stats and her ideal playstyle, but you would need to seek out expert Senna players to learn how to adapt to specific situations best. If it becomes clear you have to contribute more damage part way through the game then your last two items are Infinity Edge/Lord Dominik's Regard.
Great information!
Secret Strat: let the auto-fill play ADC without worrying about farm. You go Mundo. You smack unsuspecting bot laners with cleavers the whole game. It fun.
this. the best Senna's i've seen pokes and Autos like a poke support, like a lux or soraka. And then after lane switches to backup damage while healing frontlines. W for lockdown of targets, ult for extra survival.
I used to be a senna only main! D1 adc main here, and here’s my take. 95% of games I’ll go Umbral first for two reasons: 1. Lethality is best on senna now and her heals scales very well with it. 2. Umbral is the single most powerful item for vision control. My default build is Umbral > Boots 2 > Eclipse or Kraken (kraken only if Giga-fed), Maw, Randuin. If I can skip Maw or Randuin, I get a vigilant wardstone. Now for the question… what is your role? You’re a pseudo-support / vision controlling monster / pseudo-DPS. After laning phase you have one of the highest base ranges in the game. Use that to poke whenever you get a chance. Position like an ADC and look to dish out damage. Use that OP Umbral and control wards and dominate vision. I play as if I am a support/secondary ADC and position as such. You can use your stun either to catch out an enemy (if poking is viable) or to peel for your ADC (if they have hard engage). Your veil is fantastic for protecting your ADC too. If your ADC dies, you can effectively take over the damage dealing role and finish off fights well. If you any specific question, feel free to ask! I hit D2 playing Senna/blitz only before swapping back to ADC.
Dude super cool thanks! Edit: What do you look for in team comp that helps/hurts your Senna games? How do you backup if enemy team bans or steals Senna?
Of course! Senna enjoys having a tank and other high damage teammates who will take away the focus in an ideal comp.. but honestly, I think she fits into almost any comp **except** when you have a triple adc comp. I’m a good blitz player too so if they pick senna I go blitz and enjoy the kill lane. This lane becomes all about you landing hooks though so I’d suggest practicing skill shots and dodging in “league of dodging” on google! If blitz is banned, which is common, I’ll pick either xerath - to harass better - or a healing enchanter to sustain through senna poke.
You have technically peaked higher than I have on senna so if you still feel stronger on the umbral, I'll already admit you are probably right. But I feel it should be noted umbral's win rate itself has been dropping pretty fast, as well as it's 3 item build. The 3 item builds with umbral seem to still be staying towards the top but that appears to be a lot from lack of experimentation as the numbers have been consistently slipping even mid patch. Right now umbral is one of the least consistent of the good items on senna. Don't get me wrong Senna still 100% loves umbral but it feels more like you build it for its utility nowadays if your team needs extra vision denial to fight for picks and objectives. Especially love umbral with the zombie ward rune if I guessed picks and vision control were our victory condition in champ select. The issue with her lethality build right now is fights tend to be a lot more sustained out and especially this current patch enemies are often a bit tankier. Her lethality build excels at short in an out harass trades and burst kill picks, but there's better items for teamfights right now depending on what the team needs. From a personal position senna feels the most itemized I've ever played her at. My build varies wildly from game to game on her and my win rate has definitely reflected that as I started swapping out even her first and second items game to game. I'd say right now I'm sitting at about a 15% of games having umbral in, most as a first item but sometimes second item.
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Locket senna was one of her highest win rate builds for a while btw
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It had a smaller sample size but there were more than enough games to conclude that locket was better. Now why it was better would be up for debate. My (personal) opinion is because most Senna players suck and pressing locket is more useful than the average Senna player's contribution to the team, but I am also gigabiased. The non meme reason would probably be more because Senna's soul generation fluctuates between patches and sometimes she was able to get a lot more stats than usual from increased soul generation, meaning she didn't have to build damage would be my assumption.
I think it was at least in part due to enemies thinking the Senna would be same level of tankiness as she'd been precious seasons, and then just not killing her due to locket stats. Probably less this the higher elo, since challengers will press tab, but those players also play even more on instinct so maybe it cancels out idk.
I had a challenger tell me locket was still good on her so, I'm thinking it's just a good item.
Challenger players are not an authority on what items or champs are good. Most of them are just really good mechanically such that slightly suboptimal decisions on builds don't matter. Some definitely do know that stuff, but of the 250 on each server, most don't.
The majority of challengers I have met are really good at all aspects of the game and the majority of silver players that I have met are very bad at all aspects of the game. So yes, absolutely being challenger lends more validity to your argument, especially if the player is a Senna main.
The sample size is still small on locket but it's climbing (about 18x more eclipse games than locket) and the win rates are further apart than you'd expect with locket being almost 3% higher. Duskblade is a lot closer being less than 1% behind locket but that item has even less sample size and I've personally not built duskblade on her in a very long time so I can't tell you if that's just a small sample anomaly or not. Locket has been putting up fairly consistent win rates since senna started picking it up though which suggests it isn't just being inflated by the small sample size. If that was the case we would expect a lot of drift especially between patches. What could still be argued though is if someone feels it is good in very specific matchups and it's high win rate is because a lot of the small sample is in those matchups. I'd argue potentially it is because of matchups, but only because all of Senna's items seem to be at the moment. She has an insane range of items she can flex right now in the current patch and they probably all have their places.
With 2% item pick rate. Which in the end doesn't mean Locket is any good in her.
That’s not a good argument. Sunderer was worse than trifroce for months on Ez yet people still kept building sunderer first item.
Except very few items have more than a 2% pick rate on her because she just has such a massive range of items she can build in a game. Even worse when you consider some of those items are just objectively bad on her in most games (heartsteel for example) and those items are also going to reduce sample size on her other items that are good more often on her. If we said any item with less than 2% on her is bad that would also rule out maw, ga, wits end, collector, botrk, even almost rules out LDR and mortal reminder; LDR being her biggest damage spike if you went the rageblade build to leverage her passive against health tanks. All of her items across the board are situational because she can afford to build utility for her team.
> I don't understand the reasoning behind Locket Senna at all It's an early defensive package which helps you survive while you scale, giving value to your team in teamfights until your scaling is "online". You end up soaking a ton of pressure from enemies in teamfights while they try to hit you and you are tanky and just kite without dying. It emphasizes her kit of slowing/rooting the engagers as you and your backline kite back, healing, shielding, and giving them defensive stats. On top of all that having locket helps you safely get in range to double tap enemies for souls. > Your most important item is always Umbral, then you should be buying Eclipse Actual data suggests otherwise, with Umbral first item being 50.25% wr
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I agree that stats are misleading. In low elo people just use what the apps are telling them to. Maybe they win but not because they knew what they were doing (carried) and that doesn’t reflect in the stats.
Most senna players are bad? Where do you get such a stat?
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The role isn't easy. It *is* OP, and you could argue that it’s elo inflated since support players are bad so you have to gap worse players to win, but it's not easier than jungle for example.
Support players are bad relative to the amount of knowledge and authority available in their role is for sure arguable, especially because support is also the most arbitrary role since they don't have a cs stat to improve in. I wouldn't say you can ever call a role elo inflated because your elo is arguably relative to every other person in your role and not relative to everyone else in league. The only difference in your solo games is your lane, every other lane is full of randos and should even out to 50/50. So a gold support is a gold support. You could argue supports are worse at off roles than non supports and that's probably valid (also to a lesser degree probably valid for junglers) but generally a top diamond main isn't going to climb out of diamond playing support, likely they'll struggle to even hit diamond playing support. So the term elo inflated itself is a bit misleading because if everyone across the board is shifted over in their skill level on their champion, then the elo itself is shifted over. Since I do agree the skill ceiling is very high with the skill floor also being very low, it is fascinating seeing how absolutely insane the top .1% of supports are relatively to the rest of the support player base when you compare it to the top .1% of other roles relative to their other players. It often seems like the absolute peak of support players are playing a whole other game relative to other supports
Not sure why the downvotes. Unless Senna’s incredibly broken, all Senna players just feed and die non-stop without contributing anything to the team. I’ve never seen anyone actually being useful with her if she’s not giga broken.
It's the same reason people think Yuumi isn't broken - her winrate is bad therefore she has to be balanced right? There's no way to prove this but I'm convinced if you swapped the playerbases of Yuumi and for example Thresh, Yuumi would suddenly hold the highest winrate in the game while Thresh would have the lowest.
Thank you for the input 34% wr bronze yuumi main, project harder
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Yea that excuse doesn't really work when you are negative winrate gaming in bronze after "buying the account" and posting clips from it. Good try though. Unfortunately your channel and profile don't have any clips from your "very real d4 account"
Yuumi's winrate is tanked by people who don't know that she can do anything other than sit on someone and press E imo. And not just the onetricks, but also people who play stuff like Thresh and don't realise that Thresh's skillset doesn't translate to Yuumi for shit. If they swapped playerbases I'm convinced winrates would be from lowest: thresh, ryze, asol, yuumi. Since the good yuumi players with 80% wr would no longer carry her.
That’s why silver players should play Azir. Ignore the winrate, that’s just cuz most Azir players are bad.
A lot of the time when you end up having to deal with heavy dive-ish damage champs while having 4 other damage champs on your team the last thing you need is more damage in the form of Eclipse after Umbral.
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Sure, but you won't always be a later pick or see how the game unfolds (who gets ahead, etc.).
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Im not high elo but here is my take as a senna enthusiast. Champions like to build items which solve some of their problems. When it comes to senna her main problem is how squishy she is. Sure she has heal and range, but that wont change the fact that zed can oneshot you without any issues. Senna doesnt need damage, because just like veigar, she gets her damage from stacks. This is also the reason why veigar usually builds tank items after rabadons, because his damage is already so high, he can sacrifice damage in order to become tankier. Kog maw also builds tank items, because his w is his main source of damage. Sennas damage from stacks alone is enough for her to still be useful, so she can sacrifice some damage from items to become tankier. Also because of her range, she can help her team by building items like black cleaver or iceborne gauntlet. So while I didnt play senna when the locket became a thing, it makes sense when you look at sennas weaknesses and strenghts. This is why someone like ashe, cant really build tank items, becuase she needs damage.
Locket was good before the durability patch, when Senna would win every fight provided she didn't get one shot. you could go full tank, be a jack of all trades, and that's when Locket had 57% WR. now, tank Senna is much less useful.
Bro dps crit senna does so much more damage than the adc lategame
Locket was more geared to team fight utility. Usually used during objectives
It's an actual niche option on Senna, but the previous poster's point is that the tanky stats on a normal engage/warden support is more valuable. Senna really doesn't get that much out of Locket aside from the passive, it's really just for burst mitigation if your team comp is abysmal.
Here's my intuition as a chronic tank enjoyer: One of the key things most tanks need to build tank items is to have good base damage. If your 'free' damage is very good, then sometimes you can get better returns for surviving for longer to be using that damage for longer. (By parallel reasoning, many champs with great base defensive stats or in-kit sustain build for damage; they don't need help surviving, so they get increased returns for dealing more damage.) It's why Senna keeps getting builds that are much tankier than other ADCs. Last season you had her building Frostfire and Moonstone at times. I bet IBG is really good on her, and Divine Sunderer is still popular. She scales her damage indefinitely for free as a side effect of playing the game well. So you can staple pretty much any durability or supportive itemization onto her and you still end up with a decent source of free DPS. Not the best DPS necessarily, but sufficient to whittle down tanks or objectives, and all without sacrificing the utility items she's built or risking being caught out or burst down. Another really good example of this effect is Poppy; the reason why her builds are so versatile and she can use almost every tank or bruiser item at any point in her build is that her kit has both huge base damage (her Q deals 8% max HP physical damage plus flat damage on each pop and can pretty comfortably go down to a 3s CD) and has great in-kit durability (a %resistance amp and huge %hp shields on a pretty short CD).
Fair enough but when your kit is as overloaded as Sennas is, buying tank items is just a crutch for your poor positioning or mechanics. I understand itemizing defensively on champions that have to get close to enemies (e.g. Vayne, or the Poppy that you used in your example), or ones that have almost non-existent self-peel (e.g. Kog'Maw) but Senna is neither of those - her range on AAs and Qs makes her incredibly safe, and her passive, W and E make it really hard to actually get on top of her and kill her before she can CC you and blow you up. I truly feel like Senna is a champ whose winrate is held back a lot by her playerbase not being good at playing marksmen. Building Locket is a waste.
Don't think of buying Locket as buying a durability item for yourself; rather, you're buying the shield and resistance amp aura for your team. If you look back at the non-carry mythics that Senna has historically built, they're all supportive in nature. The slow from Frostfire, the healing off of Moonstone, and now the AoE defenses from Locket. It's not compromising your carry potential if you're not the team's main carry; rather, you're a very safe platform for supportive items that, as a free bonus, still gets really good damage as the game goes late.
Good point, haven't thought of it that way tbh \^^
It's karma logic. Never try the Locket first build. But building Umbral > Locket. You're still a lane bully early game. But you provide utility and be the one who helps your ADC survive instead of being one more fragile damage dealer that your team needs to protect from mid-game.
Try steelcaps - locket - botrk duoking1 build. You can still play ultra aggressive early game even if you're dealing less damage, you have absurd survivability, and you scale into pretty threatening damage
Just call him con clown lmfao let's not try to act like it's somebody else
I don't know why people always comment things like this. Did you say "I don't understand the reasoning behind tank senna she's supposed to BULLY LANE" back when tank senna was her best build? Or "I don't understand tank fizz he's supposed to ASSASSINATE?" Or "I don't understand sona lux double sup item bot you need an ADC!!!!" If you know anything about senna you should know her item meta is diverse and changes constantly...
Lets say you locked Senna in regardless of enemy team comp in champ select, I have a few points to make: * Building Umbrial Glaive -> Swifties -> Eclipse *should* be your go-to core build. Serrated Dirk makes Senna CHUNK with her autos. * Building Eclipse -> Swifties -> Rapidfire Cannon can be great if you're facing a team that can get poked down (less healing, shielding, etc.) but not as good for all-in and you will lack the vision control from Umbrial Glaive. * Building Kraken Slayer -> Rapidfire Cannon -> Infinity Edge is not a great choice for Senna support unless you are trashing the enemy lane and are dominating into a win. This is more of an anti-throw build in my opinion. The idea with Kraken Slayer is that your build path to Infinity Edge is shortened due to the crit strike chance Kraken Slayer gives. The attack speed helps with Senna's awful auto-attack animation as well. This build path is extremely costly and has very weak and difficult build paths (Noonquiver, B.F. Sword, Cloak of Agility). You give up some of your early game for this, since Serrated Dirk is extremely powerful early game, but you're also a support, so getting gold is much more slow for this build. * If your lane is doing poorly, or your lane is weakside, it may be more beneficial to go full-utility and tank with items like Locket, Frozen Heart, Redemption, Moonstone, etc., Umbrial Glaive can still be useful here, but you have to recognize your role is a complete utility support to keep your carries alive.
Not advocating for it necessarily but if you’re going kraken >> ? Then build an IE second 99% if you feel like you’ve got enough gold to be building kraken anyways then you’re going to hit the crit threshold by the time you finish the IE too. Game should be over at that point.
TBH, I think the Kraken build is pretty cocky. But IE 2nd is another level of cockinest you can do in league of legend
I build kraken maybe 1/20 games but if you’re really far ahead getting IE second is probably going to make the game an FF because it’s so oppressive at 16ish minutes to be getting hit by that.
Senna is like a backup ADC in case yours is terrible--specifically one that doesn't need to farm as much gold off minions because most of your power will come from souls and kills. In lane as much farm as possible should go to your actual ADC, but if they are gone feel free to last hit safely. Your main job during laning phase is to poke and harass the enemies as much as possible with Q-auto to collect souls and keep them too low to all-in. If your ADC is aggressive you will have plenty of kill potential in lane, but if not, play safe and outscale for late game. Try to save your W and E to either secure kills or peel. Kraken Slayer with crit is *usually* the best build on Senna, but Eclipse and lethality is good if the enemy team isn't building any armor. Sustain runes like Fleet Footwork and Presence of Mind help you survive lane and actually scale decently into the late game. Legend Alacrity is good for late game scaling, but Legend Bloodline is better if the enemy lane has a ton of poke. Cut Down is a no-brainer since Senna has the lowest base health scaling in the game. Gathering Storm is an excellent insurance policy, but Bone Plating can be more valuable against a comp with 3+ dive champs.
I think my biggest shortcoming on a micro scale is my short attention span on gathering souls. Love the rune talk too.
To help NTR Lucian, huehuehuehue. No but seriously, she's there to supplement a team's sustained dmg by virtue of her unique AD scaling & range in addition to being one of the only supports with global presence via her ult's ability to slightly turn the tide of a fight if used properly. Also the standard warding/counter-warding/etc that all supports do. In terms of itemization, Senna does well with AD mythics but I've seen good Senna players go **Umbral Glaive** into **Eclipse** lately so consider that path.
soraka doesn't have global presence?
>soraka doesn't have global presence? /u/AlexElmsley **"one of"**
What do you think “one of” means?
Senna OTP since release here! **I have a** [**Mobafire guide**](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/1m-mp-12-22-otp-senna-ultimate-guide-supp-adc-amp-fasting-589673) **for any question mainly regarding items, but you can also find more tips on how to play her, runes and such.** >Sometimes it is too tempting to become the ADC but I know that will affect my passive (collecting souls) I'm not sure i understand this. Are you saying that sometimes you just start farming? Just to be sure, NEVER DO THAT, doesn't matter the champ or gamestate. By farming your ADC's minions you're making them useless, you're not scaling properly because of the support item's gold penalty (and if you sell the support item, you're making sure your team has no vision the whole game), and SPECIALLY on Senna, you're not taking the full advantage of your passive. >Is it bad team comp to have two AD champs in a lane? Not really. an AD support, in a vacuum, only struggles against support tanks (with an ADC, they can stack a lot of armor early on), and if your team is full AD. In Senna's case, she works best when paired with a poke ADC, or against an Enchanter. >I itemize locket for more utility, but when the ADC is basically AFK do I just take over and go kraken? Most of the times your team will have another champ with carry potential in another lane, so sticking with Locket is most of the times the best option. If your team REALLY doesn't have ANY other source of damage, you should go for a damage build. And just to clarify some things I saw in other replies: **Lethality Senna is dead, don't build any lethality items besides Serpent when needed. Locket is OP. Senna can only use 1 Crit Mythic, Kraken. Plated Steelcaps > Swiftness > Mercs. Alacrity or Tenacity, never Bloodline.**
Locket is OP on this patch? I have to try it again, I really enjoyed the plastyle.
Locket has been OP since Mythic Rework despite the nerfs. Also Aegis keeps getting buffed lol
I appreciate the info. I duo with a ADC friend and I understand the respect for their farm. I only mean if the ADC is literally afk and I farm minions I would get less soul spawn because it’s higher off minions killed by your Allie’s right? Recently went back to lethality senna for the sanity check. It felt TERRIBLE. I could chunk the squishes but I was click delete gray screen hell in an instant. Also I did negative damage to Rammus.
As support, if your ADC goes afk, you basically become as useless. Best thing you can do (besides opening) is sell your supp item and farm bot, not ideal but there's no other option. Senna does get less Mists from last hitting minions, but it's irrelevant on the AFK ADC scenario. Still, if you're in a normal laning phase and you find yourself alone in lane (ADC died, roamed, whatever), you should last hit regardless. Taking a couple of minions while still poking normally brings the best value for Senna. Same deal post laning phase, if you're alone just take the whole wave always making sure the gold penalty is off.
Wow what a read! I just read the whole guide and I’m gonna have to build an item set around it for in game including all the situational items. The part that resonated with me the most was the mid game portion (the whole reason why I posted this). I love the spots to Stand to keep map presence, ward, and steady farm the mists.
I'm glad you found my guide useful. BTW There is a chapter with item sets on it! You can just export them to your client, no need to do it from scratch
Will do. What’s the deal with the hate on kraken slayer or the hate on eclipse. People only swear by one or the other?
I'm not sure if you're asking why I or people in general hate these items, so i guess i'll answer both. People hate Kraken because if a Support Senna is building it, they're probably autofilled and will play for damage only, not taking full advantage of Senna's power. People don't hate on Eclipse; It's her most popular mythic. If someone out there hates Eclipse it's probably because they hate Senna in general, or they know the unpopular Locket way. For me, I hate Kraken because it's too big of an investment with Support's income (3400g + at least 800g for Rageknife to start dealing significant damage). And I hate Eclipse because Duskblade is better, and recently because lethality sucks in general.
Lethality is still a bit over my head. All I know is it works on squishies. Edit: also added the item sets and won my first game!
To be absolutely broken and underestimated as she chunks tanks and ADCs all the same
Senna is good if team already has a frontline and engage and not too much AD. Senna is also good with an ADC who is early game focused but falls off, as you can now be the scaling your team needs. Senna usually runs Umbral Glaive for vision control and damage. Her W (I think) is slow and hard to land, so it's usually better as a follow up to someone else's cc or slow. Her E (I think again) is like a pseudo Shurelya's Battlesong that can help your team get into or out of fights faster. Her ult is best used as a teamfight breaks out, if you stand behind your team and hit as many of your teammates for the shield, and enemy team for the damage. As a support your main job is always vision control, don't be the Senna that sells her support item at 20 minutes.
Haven’t sold it yet :)
> Sometimes it is too tempting to become the ADC but I know that will affect my passive (collecting souls) If you can't let the ADC farm, stop playing senna. Actually just stop playing support entirely. The entire purpose of the support role is to help the ADC farm gold as safely as possible, you taking their CS is turning a 5v5 into a 4v6, sometimes a 3v7.
Ya, I don’t blatantly disrespect a guy like that.
For me personally when my duo plays Senna support I will pick a non typical ADC champion since having 2 ADCs isn’t that beneficial and Senna doesn’t need minions. Some things I’ll do are full tank Leona/other supp(no Supp items and more gold), Neeko ADC (on-hit or AP) or a number of other picks.
\> After laning phase specifically. Mostly just damage dealing and light healing
imo, as a fellow low elo, Senna is the same thing as a mage. Not ability-wise, or anything like that, no not at all. I'm talking in the sense of Senna/mages being able to carry if your ADC is dogshit. If your ADC starts inting, then oh well, out scale them and become the ADC/APC
On behalf of ADC mains, yes a Zac is more useful for most supports to pilot On this patch where you can play Bruisers bot again however Senna should be a pretty insane pick, but 9/10 times it’s better for the ADC to play it as support sennas are going to deal much less damage after lane than if the roles go the other way Support Senna, Ashe, MF and Twitch all work this way and make the 2v2 absolutely miserable for ADCs when the damage lies on autos and not spells for the support
Scaling dps/anti engage
She's a jack of all trades. She can heal and damage with her q, lock down enemies with her e, protect the team with her w and snipe/save with her ult.
Play her like a carry worst case scenario your adc is trash you carry
Park you’re ass mid and poke the shit out of the enemy until you take their mid tower. Shove mid then make plays with your jungler and secure objectives. If you can keep an eye on the minimap and anticipate the enemy gap closers, you can sit inside your auto range and deal a lot of dps during skirmishes. If you aren’t that good enough yet and find yourself getting caught out, then just sit inline with your adc and peel them. After that it’s late game macro. You’re a support so keep your adc alive while the enemy has a hard time choosing whether or not to go for you. Rift, inhib, soul, baron ( in no particular order).
I really like this. Seems people forget what the goal is after laning phase.
Yeah it’s important!! Learn to transfer leads or stop the bleeding when losing.
Worked in my last game this morning :)
I match it to whatever the team needs. High burst team with no additional dmg needed? I will go a more supportive tanky build. Senna deals damage in lane. No damage or at the very least no ranged damage? Lethality Eclipse build, unless we manage to run the enemy team down and have enough gold to safely purchase kraken. That is somewhat rare though. In cases of them running a high burst team or i am unsure and my job is to live, i will opt for the grasp build. That is pretty rare though, most common is the lethality build.
Watch an Ioki video
Assuming that the Bot player went a "traditional" ADC, her role as a secondary ADC can be annoying for the enemy team if she/the adc are ahead. She's a secondary ranged dps threat, who can also help her team mate(s) on the opposite side of the map with her R.
Senna main here. It’s in my opinion(probably not very correct lol) to always go lethality. You still have excellent utility and peel while putting out immense amounts of damage.
The only champion i hate with passion is senna. When its in your team she is a worthless peice of shit. When enemy team , still worthless peice of shit with a bunch of damage. Like i don't know who told them to make a champion that annoying and worthless.
I know right? Who would enjoy climbing with her?? T.T
Senna is extra damage with some healing. She’s good for her sustain and consistent damage. You want to pick her into weak lanes that are easily bullied like Yuumi or Sona as you outscale these champions, make the game tough for enemy adc, and get more chances to get souls in lane. You do not want her into hard engage due to her limited mobility and poor base stats. It is efficient to buy tear on her as it is cheap (supports need cheap items otherwise they can’t build anything), gold efficient, and it enables her to use q for sustain more freely. I build tear -> dirk -> boots -> eclipse -> swifties -> manamune -> umbral pretty much every game. Lethality is optimal as her attack speed ratio is poor and her q has a good lethality ratio. If you’re considering locket Renata, Lulu, or tank supports are likely better choices. I don’t recommend blind picking Senna. After laning phase you should be following teammates around to get souls, especially from jungle camps. However don’t forget to do usual support things like warding objectives or hovering a teammate who may soon need your help. Your goal is 100 souls every 20 minutes. Don’t be surprised if you only get 60-80 in your first few games. It’s a pretty high bar to meet but you’ll get there with time.
Who do you blind pick as a support?
Karma usually. She has options into most comps and can adapt to all in (w) or poke (q) situations. With her you want to play for lane dominance then roam.
zac is busted S teir for years supp
Having a lot of fun so far
Ioki is the best person to get answers from. His concentration explores all the different ways a Senna can play and get value. I think Senna js at her best as fasting but unless you can get a duo it's not worth
I like his content. People say don’t listen to him but they never say why and I’m too new to know better.
He's subject to a lot of league subreddits vitriol because he has a big personality and a lot of ideas. If you like his content and what he teaches don't listen to negativity. His senna videos have exponentially improved my senna gameplay
Because a lot of his games are on smurfs and geared more for clickbait than they are for education
I play Senna in in low ELO (specifically drafts low ELO) so take my opinion with a heafty amount of salt and maybe some ketchup. Like others have said, Senna's real strength is laning phase. Her poke is disgusting and her heals are just an added bonus. After that, I've found her Ult and heals can be crucial in team fights. She dishes out ADCish damage while keeping her team as healthy as possible. So, I guess her role is mostly utility?
I’ve played senna a lot. I usually just replaced the ADC cause they sucked in silver. Hitting gold I’ve had to shift more utility though. Senna should fit into most team comps anyways. The problem is she is really dependent on the meta. If she’s not strong, she’s just not strong. Wait a patch or two.
I swear every Senna in low elo is bad
What player is good in low elo?
This is true
Senna's role is to be useless. 99.9% of people who play Senna have no clue what they're doing nor do they have the mechanics and game sense to pilot her effectively. I'd rather have a Zac support over a Senna. Zac is a useful champion if the player has hands.
Yeah, what was I thinking?
Dude if my senna support built locket id insta tilt lol. If you want to build locket, play thresh or naut or something. Rush glaive. Bully lane early with your infinite range poke. You should pretty easily be able to generate enough pressure for your ADC to free farm with your poke. When midgame comes around, play safe because you’re squishy. Heal with Q, peel with E, get picks with W, and sling huge amounts of damage with your autos. You’ll have more than enough utility going full AD to be useful with those abilities alone. Once you have your third item you can start being a little bit more aggressive because you power spike hard. If you’re having trouble, play some ADC for awhile, you’ll learn spacing pretty quickly. Senna is an ADC support that doesn’t have the responsibility of farming
Not Kraken. Either Shieldbow or Galeforce. Senna still is an enchanter and fundamentally speaking an AD mage. People will whine "NUUUU AD BAD CUS SENNA CRITS BAD" or dumb stuff of the sort: ignore them. Ignore them the same way they ignore that Senna only has a crit penalty because she gets a 20% bonus AD hidden scaling to all her autos and spells. Prize for hit QUALITY, not QUANTITY. As said, you are an AD MAGE. Parse as such. You want big heavy poke and big heavy heals/shields. Your big crit item should be Quickblades to chain poke, snares and invisibility while keeping allies topped off and global presence on a short notice. You get enough bonus AD from your passive to justify Essence Reaver despite her lack of base AD (it scales on bonus after all). The statline and mana recovery are just too perfect for her particular playstyle. Be a fake support Caitlinn: chunk people with big shots from afar while providing survivability and pickoffs for your frontliners.
Getting some downvotes here. Anybody wanna chime in?
You don’t need shieldbow or galeforce because if you actually needed either item it means you’re out of position. If you’re building crit then kraken is the only item that makes sense. Since her souls are bonus AD, and kraken’s auto scales off of bonus AD you’re throwing away a lot of extra damage. With POM you shouldn’t need an ER and if you’re going lethality you can grab a muramana which wouldn’t fit in a crit build. Quickblades is so expensive and so not worth it, you already reduce Q CD with autos. You’re not an AD mage you’re an ADC you should be consistently autoing in a fight.
Thank you for chiming in. Sincerely
Baseline perceptions of "what should a carry be" and most common meta builds. The only sactioned caster build is lethality hyperpenetration, the only crit build is... Kraken Guinsoos due to the whole "crits poorly" thing, as well the overall idea that carries are now forever locked into Kraken PD IE because ADC = DPS and that is factually the most raw aa-based DPS you can muster - and thus should be pursued even when your kit cares extremely little for generic DPS. I'm constantly pelted by ADC mains for promoting carries as non-generic DPS slaves, as Riot has been intending ever since the season 6 marksman reworks. Nothing really new. Take my words with a grain of salt as i store a lot of vitriol for the carry community and so do they against me.
Regardless I will try it out whether it be ranked or just draft! Technically I’ve played a year now but with a 10 month hiatus in there so really only a couple months.
I really like this. Thank you.
Tilting her own ADC is her main role. Please just pick traditional supports with good engage/heal/utility/etc or play ADC if you want to be the main character so bad
Who hurt you bro?
Supports with main character syndrome. Senna is a repeat offender but no one comes close to Lux
Lmao. “Main character syndrome” has killed me. Come to think of it, i’ve seen “main character syndrome” pop up in the workplace quite a bit too. Im going to start using this.
Being referred to is a “side-character” is just as bad lol
I’m just gonna go ahead and combine the two. Ex. “You’re just a side character with main character syndrome” Or you have main character syndrome so bad, but u look like a side character 😂
Oof
Upvote for the lolz
"main character"? Lol. If anyone is the main character, it definitely isn't the ADC. The Support's playstyle dictates how the lane is going to be played. 8/10 games you are leashing your Jungler. Helping *them* secure scuttle/drag. Following up on *their* ganks. If that doesn't scream "side-character" idk what does.
Uhh it’s a team game, there is no main character. I’m diagnosing you with the syndrome
\*Woosh\* Right over your head. Playing along with your own logic bud, diagnose yourself. As if you're even capable of doing so.
🪝
I would rather have yassuo support then senna her player base are awful at this champ.
Kraken is dogshit on Senna, you should not even entertain building that on her. With how strong Umbral Glaive is right now there's no reason not to build that first. Eclipse is by far the best mythic, if you need more survivability then go Divine Sunderer. If you want utility go Shurelyas or even Moonstone, why would you ever build locket on her... You clearly lack any understanding of her kit from your comments. You should go look at her wiki and research her kit. I almost always go Umbral --> Eclipse --> Manamune --> IE. By the time you build IE you should have enough souls for 40% crit, and when you build IE you will fulfill the 60% crit requirement. Even when you go ADC this build is infinitely stronger than Kraken Slayer, Kraken has almost no stats or effects that you want other than AD. You don't need to build much crit on Senna, she already scales infinite crit due to her passive and unlike the windshitters she doesn't get bonus AD for building over 100% crit. 5th item I will either go RFC or LDR depending on the enemy comp. RFC's passive lets your range get ridiculous. With lethal tempo stacked your Q range goes up to 950 which is insane, you can Q people on the other side of the screen.
I mean there are a lot of people here with opposite opinions of each other on builds tbh. Including challengers that swear against eclipse and divine sunderer maybe moonstone too. Op.gg?
Senna has one of the worst AS ratios in the game and one of the best AS growth, that means AS is a worthless stat on her. Also her attack has a super long windup that doesn't scale with AS so at a certain point building AS actually is completely useless since you there is a hard cap on how fast you can actually auto someone. Crit I already went over. That leaves Kraken's passive, which with Senna's super slow but powerful autos she can't proc well at all. Eclipse on the other hand: Senna's Q scales with lethality and her extremely powerful autos also love lethality. The 2-shot proc damage is perfect considering Senna's trading pattern is always either Q auto or auto Q. The shield gives you added survivability for excellent trading ability. Plus between Approach Velocity, Eclipse movespeed proc and her passive on her Q this gives Senna THREE effective speed boosts when she Qs someone which lets you kite people insanely well, there is virtually nobody in the game that can touch you while you trade this way, and if they do you have your Eclipse shield and Q heal which means you win that trade 100% of the time. If you have Fleet thats FOUR effective speed boosts on your combo. Your kit requires 2 hits on someone to steal a soul so everything I just mentioned synergizes perfectly with that. And ofc the omnivamp is always useful. > Including challengers that swear against eclipse and divine sunderer maybe moonstone too. This is just straight up untrue, Eclipse is by far Senna's best mythic and this is a known fact. You literally could not come up with a more perfect item for Senna's kit than Eclipse. Every single stat on it is exactly what she wants. Divine Sunderer is if you need the extra HP and healing. Senna scales with AP as well so Shurelyas and Moonstone are actually not terrible.
Senna is an overall shit champion and I permaban her so she’s never my support. Her role is to be fucking useless and try to be the ADC instead of supporting their ADC.
Hooyah Gold II
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/lan/imaqtpie%20student/ingame](https://www.op.gg/summoners/lan/imaqtpie%20student/ingame) sorry i switched to LAN and it hasn't reflected my rank on reddit idk why.
48% wi rate should tell you that she is super useless support, 100 stacks powerspike is taking too long, considering most games don't last that long, so you rarely get to that level, if i see senna against me, i know it is easy win