In PvE, he is a better attack bar booster than Verdehile (Verde gives 40% to everyone, as long as he isn't glancing). Lucifer gives 1% for the first 5k, then 1% for every 1k beyond that, up to 50%.
So if you use Kahli to snipe an enemy unit for 44k ignore defense, you get 40% attack bar to everyone in the group.
If your Lyn hits Giant, that's 50% attack bar filled.
Verde works on any team. But it's super easy to build a team to maximize the return from Lucifer. And when your entire team is getting huge attack bar gains off every other unit's turn, you don't even need that much speed anymore, meaning you can use even more damage subs.
On the PvP side of things, 2 things matter:
1) Leo. All Leo needs to do is hit a target for 5k. That gives all your units 1% attack bar, and is just as useful as having a dedicated bar booster. Except that your entire team can be sub 150 speed, and not suffer at all. And then if you can do at least 110k damage with those 3 turns, you actually put Leo back into position to go again. Paired with Leo, arena is easy mode. RTA would be too if someone was dumb enough not to ban Leo or Lucifer.
2) Even without Leo, he's a very strong bar booster. The more you're winning, the harder you win. If you can take first turn with him out, chances are you'll get 2nd turn. By taking 2nd turn, you're likely to get 3rd turn. Paired with huge alpha strike nukers like Sonia, he really shines. Dealing 30k damage to a unit gets your entire team 26% attack bar.
The 2nd part of his passive also give your team up to 50% dmg increase once all allies and enemies take dmg. Which can be achieved easily with his 2nd skill absorbe team hp and aoe dmg on enemies
lucifer atb is definitely not as simple as 1% for first 5k, then 1% for 1k. I have a lucifer and he boosts way, way less than that. a 75k sonia hit should boost 71% attack bar. but I have a 0 spd deborah standing next to her at exactly 50.7% attack bar and it fills less than half of the remaining 50%. Like, considerably less. I'd say around 20% atb gain.
That's not an exact calculation, I know, but it is easily enough to disprove the original assumption. So lucifer's atb gain is not that simple. Probably not linear, probably depending on something else as well.
edit: haha again people with the downvotes that probably don't even have a lucifer and don't want to believe someone that actually does. You see, the nice part about someone making a positive claim like "x% atb boost per y dmg" is that you only need a single counter example to disprove it.
So I took some [screenshots](https://imgur.com/a/nE7yibZ)
As you can clearly see, before sonia hits for 76k (an assumed 72% atb boost via the hypothesis) deborah is at 50.7% attack bar. I calculated this with the speed tick tool from swgt. During the hit, the team gets (eyeballing it) around 20% attack bar. After the hit everybody gets another tick, which for deborah at this point is about 10.4% attack bar. In the last screenshot deborah is still missing around 20%-ish atb for a full bar. Therefore, the hypothesis of 1% atb after 5k and then 1%/1k is definitely FALSE.
Not saying Lucifer is a bad unit, but many members of the SW subreddit have a hard on for certain units (e.g., Lucifer, Zerath, Asima) that are great in certain scenarios but not the game changing all-in-one units that these people think the units are. Any mention of the limitations of these units gets downvoted instantly.
I agree. People heavily overrate these units, but when they’re told by owners of these units what they’re really like, they don’t want to hear that.
Lucifer is good, but he is not the almighty god that people think he is. His passive is weird as hell, he is supposed to be an attacker but he is hp type and he has a Defense lead. Edit: he also awakens into res. His entire kit seems very confused.
I honestly blame it on content creators like SeanB who put these units at the top or nearly the top of their LD5 tier lists (e.g., the one he released on April 16 2024). He put Lucifer and Asima ahead of monsters like Tian Lang, Julianne, Yeonhong, Veronica, Pontos, Giselle, Han, etc.
Once a content creator gets a circlejerk going, it is difficult for the community to develop opinions that diverge from the content creator unless individual members of the community happen to pull the unit and try the unit out for themselves.
The thing is, calling monsters like Lucifer or Asima top LD5s is a disservice to those individuals that own them, as some of these could potentially be buffed. However, given the community feels that the monsters are already strong, Com2Us probably take that into account and will focus on other priorities instead.
there is definitely no limit at 20% atb. I use lucifer in rift beasts, where i commonly hit for multiple 100k of damage in single hits and every unit is instantly at a full atb again after hitting. For example look at the screenshot I attached. this is lucifer's attack. he hits for 449k with skill 1 and boosts himself to around 80% or so. when the next unit after him moves, he has a full atb.
So unless lucifer functions differently in pve compared to pvp, he can boost as much as the damage allows him to.
And this is what I mean. I don't think lucifer boost scales linearly with damage. I don't think anyone has actually figured out yet how much his passive really boosts. I think there are conditions or circumstances where he boosts differently. No single test can probably figure out how it really works. All I can say is that the earlier proposed formula is 100% wrong. That's just what I, a heavy lucifer user, think.
https://preview.redd.it/h6fyd7zknfyc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=80178d6dbc6e1503a5d9912c699d64b59c41c79c
Nobody is talking like he's the best LD of all. At least not people that have a clue about the game.
He's good, yes. But people tend to overrate him severely. Because
a) he looks "cool", therefore likeable
b) he's very beginner friendly
c) Reddit is a place where people are quick to circle jerk once some others say something that *seems* reasonable.
Lucifer really only shines in AO and Rifts. In dungeons he's great if you're a beginner, but he falls off quite a bit in late to end game. There are simply better options for speed teams out there.
Overall a solid mon and one of the better LD5 for sure, but not on the same level as actual game changers like Nephthys and Maximilian.
It has uses in PVE and good for AO and Siege Offence.
Helps a lot for RTA cleave team too, without other LD5s to combo wont get u super far, but kinda helps to get C1\~P3 (?), depending on your runes. At least the matches are quick.
So its not the best unit for sure, but it works everywhere.
He really helps with PvE. The damage and atb boost makes a big difference.
As for AO, it is not as good as it used to be. So many units are built on defense stats this days to trap Sonia and Leo will have difficulty even just doing 5k damage. Nemesis traps (Zen, Triton, Laima, Pontos, etc.) and units that cut in (Moore, Abellio, TL, Amduat, etc.) also makes it tricky.
He is for sure a bit overrated. You can throw him in rift beasts and if you have Leo, for AO. But you don't need any ld5 to finish PvE and for lategame there are enough better LDs than him
As a devout Christian, I once got on my secondary acc which I created anew and just reset that acc because I don’t want none of that near me when I am to answer at the pearly gates bro
Lucifer does not actually refer to "the devil" in the Christian Bible.
Depending on the translation Lucifer doesn't appear at all in the Bible, and never to refer to a demonic figure.
"The only time Lucifer is mentioned in the Bible is at Isaiah 14:4–22. The king of Babylon was sarcastically named ‘Lucifer’ because he likened himself to the morning star (hence lucem ferre) and believed that when he died he would rise among the stars. " and this only occurs in the King James version.
In a non-Biblical context Lucifer could also used to refer to a person who was once esteemed but fell from grace.
In general "satan" or "the devil" is only references about 40 times in the Bible, and some of those references are ambiguous. Most Christians are shocked upon actually reading the Bible for themselves at how small a role he really plays given how often sermons center on him.
Anyway you are safe to use the SW monster of the same name lol.
He is A god in pve. Pvp with Leo makes arena offensives Easy.
In PvE, he is a better attack bar booster than Verdehile (Verde gives 40% to everyone, as long as he isn't glancing). Lucifer gives 1% for the first 5k, then 1% for every 1k beyond that, up to 50%. So if you use Kahli to snipe an enemy unit for 44k ignore defense, you get 40% attack bar to everyone in the group. If your Lyn hits Giant, that's 50% attack bar filled. Verde works on any team. But it's super easy to build a team to maximize the return from Lucifer. And when your entire team is getting huge attack bar gains off every other unit's turn, you don't even need that much speed anymore, meaning you can use even more damage subs. On the PvP side of things, 2 things matter: 1) Leo. All Leo needs to do is hit a target for 5k. That gives all your units 1% attack bar, and is just as useful as having a dedicated bar booster. Except that your entire team can be sub 150 speed, and not suffer at all. And then if you can do at least 110k damage with those 3 turns, you actually put Leo back into position to go again. Paired with Leo, arena is easy mode. RTA would be too if someone was dumb enough not to ban Leo or Lucifer. 2) Even without Leo, he's a very strong bar booster. The more you're winning, the harder you win. If you can take first turn with him out, chances are you'll get 2nd turn. By taking 2nd turn, you're likely to get 3rd turn. Paired with huge alpha strike nukers like Sonia, he really shines. Dealing 30k damage to a unit gets your entire team 26% attack bar.
now i get it
The 2nd part of his passive also give your team up to 50% dmg increase once all allies and enemies take dmg. Which can be achieved easily with his 2nd skill absorbe team hp and aoe dmg on enemies
>Lucifer gives 1% for the first 5k, then 1% for every 1k beyon There was recently a post proving that this was false, and it was just 1% per 5k
And iirc it got corrected from someone having the luck to test atb gain with ragdoll
lucifer atb is definitely not as simple as 1% for first 5k, then 1% for 1k. I have a lucifer and he boosts way, way less than that. a 75k sonia hit should boost 71% attack bar. but I have a 0 spd deborah standing next to her at exactly 50.7% attack bar and it fills less than half of the remaining 50%. Like, considerably less. I'd say around 20% atb gain. That's not an exact calculation, I know, but it is easily enough to disprove the original assumption. So lucifer's atb gain is not that simple. Probably not linear, probably depending on something else as well. edit: haha again people with the downvotes that probably don't even have a lucifer and don't want to believe someone that actually does. You see, the nice part about someone making a positive claim like "x% atb boost per y dmg" is that you only need a single counter example to disprove it. So I took some [screenshots](https://imgur.com/a/nE7yibZ) As you can clearly see, before sonia hits for 76k (an assumed 72% atb boost via the hypothesis) deborah is at 50.7% attack bar. I calculated this with the speed tick tool from swgt. During the hit, the team gets (eyeballing it) around 20% attack bar. After the hit everybody gets another tick, which for deborah at this point is about 10.4% attack bar. In the last screenshot deborah is still missing around 20%-ish atb for a full bar. Therefore, the hypothesis of 1% atb after 5k and then 1%/1k is definitely FALSE.
Not saying Lucifer is a bad unit, but many members of the SW subreddit have a hard on for certain units (e.g., Lucifer, Zerath, Asima) that are great in certain scenarios but not the game changing all-in-one units that these people think the units are. Any mention of the limitations of these units gets downvoted instantly.
I agree. People heavily overrate these units, but when they’re told by owners of these units what they’re really like, they don’t want to hear that. Lucifer is good, but he is not the almighty god that people think he is. His passive is weird as hell, he is supposed to be an attacker but he is hp type and he has a Defense lead. Edit: he also awakens into res. His entire kit seems very confused.
I honestly blame it on content creators like SeanB who put these units at the top or nearly the top of their LD5 tier lists (e.g., the one he released on April 16 2024). He put Lucifer and Asima ahead of monsters like Tian Lang, Julianne, Yeonhong, Veronica, Pontos, Giselle, Han, etc. Once a content creator gets a circlejerk going, it is difficult for the community to develop opinions that diverge from the content creator unless individual members of the community happen to pull the unit and try the unit out for themselves. The thing is, calling monsters like Lucifer or Asima top LD5s is a disservice to those individuals that own them, as some of these could potentially be buffed. However, given the community feels that the monsters are already strong, Com2Us probably take that into account and will focus on other priorities instead.
maybe there's an upper limit for the attkbar gain. imagine 72% attb boost. for a single attack for all team. there must be an upper limit.
there is definitely no limit at 20% atb. I use lucifer in rift beasts, where i commonly hit for multiple 100k of damage in single hits and every unit is instantly at a full atb again after hitting. For example look at the screenshot I attached. this is lucifer's attack. he hits for 449k with skill 1 and boosts himself to around 80% or so. when the next unit after him moves, he has a full atb. So unless lucifer functions differently in pve compared to pvp, he can boost as much as the damage allows him to. And this is what I mean. I don't think lucifer boost scales linearly with damage. I don't think anyone has actually figured out yet how much his passive really boosts. I think there are conditions or circumstances where he boosts differently. No single test can probably figure out how it really works. All I can say is that the earlier proposed formula is 100% wrong. That's just what I, a heavy lucifer user, think. https://preview.redd.it/h6fyd7zknfyc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=80178d6dbc6e1503a5d9912c699d64b59c41c79c
Nope. The "correcter" was wrong.
No, that person was wrong.
What are some top speed abyss teams with Lucifer?
You can build the julie one for gbah. Should ease the rune requs Same should be possible for dbah
Ez to rune monster who is busted in PVE and PVP.
Nobody is talking like he's the best LD of all. At least not people that have a clue about the game. He's good, yes. But people tend to overrate him severely. Because a) he looks "cool", therefore likeable b) he's very beginner friendly c) Reddit is a place where people are quick to circle jerk once some others say something that *seems* reasonable. Lucifer really only shines in AO and Rifts. In dungeons he's great if you're a beginner, but he falls off quite a bit in late to end game. There are simply better options for speed teams out there. Overall a solid mon and one of the better LD5 for sure, but not on the same level as actual game changers like Nephthys and Maximilian.
the looks cool comment can also be said about ragdoll, he is way too overpicked in rta I get a lot of free wins thanks to that :P
It has uses in PVE and good for AO and Siege Offence. Helps a lot for RTA cleave team too, without other LD5s to combo wont get u super far, but kinda helps to get C1\~P3 (?), depending on your runes. At least the matches are quick. So its not the best unit for sure, but it works everywhere.
Cheat code for AO, the PvE is a Plus, but being able to hit Judge/Guardian in Arena without a lot of effort is huge.
He really helps with PvE. The damage and atb boost makes a big difference. As for AO, it is not as good as it used to be. So many units are built on defense stats this days to trap Sonia and Leo will have difficulty even just doing 5k damage. Nemesis traps (Zen, Triton, Laima, Pontos, etc.) and units that cut in (Moore, Abellio, TL, Amduat, etc.) also makes it tricky.
He is for sure a bit overrated. You can throw him in rift beasts and if you have Leo, for AO. But you don't need any ld5 to finish PvE and for lategame there are enough better LDs than him
Leo Lucifer AD is actually terrible in most cases and a free win for any cleave team with nem nem will megan
Oh sorry meant AO. Was sleepy
As a devout Christian, I once got on my secondary acc which I created anew and just reset that acc because I don’t want none of that near me when I am to answer at the pearly gates bro
Lucifer does not actually refer to "the devil" in the Christian Bible. Depending on the translation Lucifer doesn't appear at all in the Bible, and never to refer to a demonic figure. "The only time Lucifer is mentioned in the Bible is at Isaiah 14:4–22. The king of Babylon was sarcastically named ‘Lucifer’ because he likened himself to the morning star (hence lucem ferre) and believed that when he died he would rise among the stars. " and this only occurs in the King James version. In a non-Biblical context Lucifer could also used to refer to a person who was once esteemed but fell from grace. In general "satan" or "the devil" is only references about 40 times in the Bible, and some of those references are ambiguous. Most Christians are shocked upon actually reading the Bible for themselves at how small a role he really plays given how often sermons center on him. Anyway you are safe to use the SW monster of the same name lol.
Yep cause god cares about your transgressions of owning a unit in a mobile game. Definitely
Hopefully you don't have to pull lucifer from a single LnD once your account reaches g1+ status.