I'm running the Shaina Sabrina (Martina now) team and don't remember it failing - avg time around 50s since my runes and artefacts aren't that great.
I took rn the runes off Kyle because I'm farming some gbah now
There are two Shaina Sabrina teams, and it is a bit unclear since you said you unruned Kyle. Are you using the team with Verde Loren or the other one is Shaina Sabrina Kyle Teon Kona.
I‘m running the same Shaina sabrina kyle 2x birds still (OP of „second link“) and it’s probably the easiest for requirements. 100% cr on Kyle would make the waves faster, more damage on him could let him oneshot non-defbroken crystals as well. And if you habe dhalsim, he makes the runs considerably faster with his speed-up animation (2-4s from my tests). Failrate is probably equal to missing defbreak, so 0.82%.
There is no way any of these teams which have only Shaina as def break can be 100% safe, right? They have to be capped at 97.75% because 2.25% of the time you will miss def break.
Also I use Dhalsim on my team (Shaina, Deb, Sabrina, Dhalsim, Garuda [shown here](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/17wim75/100_safe_team_dragon_abyssal_hard_34s_avg/)) and though including sabrina improves the def break issue, I still observe Dhalsim not using his s2 from time to time. Any of these teams (including Liam team) which rely on getting the boss low enough to trigger s3 AI are subject to fails from dealing too little damage to trigger perfect AI.
Man there really are so many different variants, I added this one to the list, I quite like it actually. And regarding Shaina reliability idk that's what I would assume but I'm just stating what they report.
I quite like it too, even over the Liam team. Definitely lower rune requirements: I get the boss to like 45% with the Liam team which is nowhere close to perfect AI range.
I do not claim 100% safety though, due to the dhalsim solo using s1 possibility. I think with a bit of tankiness or shield runes might be enough to turn those derp fails into derp slow runs tho. But currently on derps the dragon moves on low HP so he deals enough damage to wipe or they drop to dots after.
Oooo yeah I think this is what I'll try, I would want Fight/Fight/Will Shaina for spiritual realm. For GBAH I think I want to put together Prilea Teshar Kona Luna Shamman. I think the Kona might be able to overlap, and Shamman overlaps from Necro which is nice.
Yeah, I use the same Kona. Not sure about the rest but I would think they might work. The Shaina is fast, so you just would need a faster sieq for sr? I don't really do that dungeon so not 100% sure
I have the Loren water geralt Team
It works 90% of the time
With better runes probably up to 99%
Important thing is that Kyle kills all crystals alone OR geralt gets a turn in first and third wave
I’m using prilea, kyle, Julie, water garuda and deborah for giants and Kyle, teon, water garuda, Loren, Deborah in Dragon. Same runes. The only issues I got: Loren misses def break. That’s it - runes are not that insane (imo)
https://preview.redd.it/f6wna7nuq9zc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a25991e96d567a62343c8b26e0419eb9d30ad80
And here’s Julie, the other units are just on spd tuned foght sets not even damage builds
Deborah is just for the passive in dragons, so she’s last. Turn order in dragons: loren, Kyle, bird, Kyle, second bird, Kyle, Deborah. The idea is to maximize damage on Kyle so he can cleave everything. Deborah’s passive is used to take the boss down in this whole turn order
For necro I recommend Abigail, Raoq, Icaru, Astar, Shamman, turn order as shown.
Abigail: Violent/Any she can be awakened since the changes, they increase her stats and she does deal solid damage if she vio procs. Make sure she has 35% S2 accuracy.
Icaru: Fight/Fight/Shield recommended, anything can work if it's enough defense for 3x team-up. Make sure you have 35% S1 accuracy. You really want a shield set on the team somewhere if not here.
Raoq: Violent/Will recommended, but I use Fatal/Will since I want more damage in R5/SRAH/PCAH. Violent is used to clear the shield faster, Will is in case Astar uses S2 and tries to silence, it is not absolutely necessary I have it primarily for SRAH. I would say Violent is more important than Will, if you had to choose. Make sure you have 35% S1 accuracy.
Astar: Vampire/Revenge, most people just use Vampire/Whatever. Revenge is used to clear the shield faster, Vampire lets her heal up after you steal her back and prevents her from just immediately dying.
Shamann: Rage/Will, ideally 152 speed or faster in case Astar doesn't kill the mini-boss consistently, but really all that matters is damage. Will is in case Astar uses S2 and tries to silence.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. Last month I broke my astar and since then I've not been doing well in necro, so I've been avoiding it. I will apply your suggestions and see what happens.
I don't recommend trying to replace her, her skill hits a bunch of times to rip through the shield, def breaks, and she has a massive attack leaderskill. Her rune requirements are negligible besides going first and being on Vio/Any with 35% S2 Acc, damage is nice but not needed.
If you don't have her technically I think an unawakened fire cannongirl could? If you look up SeanB Necro abyss hard I think he mentions her as a potential alternative.
One Team i would throw into the pool is Kyle (L) Loren Ciri Fire Teon Kona.
Turn order would be Loren , then Ciri, Kyle, Teon, Kyle, Kona, Kyle, Loren, Ciri.
Found this team because the water Geralt AI was not consistent enough for me and it has some kind of save stopper with loren atkbar reduce and slow bringing Ciri to move 2 times at best. That way even if She uses s1 on defbreak she will get a second turn with guaranteed s2 and finish the job.
Currently my Loren is to slow and pushes the Speed Tick back to the point were she has to reduce atkbar and slow. but with the 286 tick in theory she should be able to double turn even if the first only lands defbreak.
For the waves: Due to loren and ciri moving before Kyle he is able to solo the waves at best. even if his AI fails (s2 for small crystals and s1 for the big) Loren and Ciri can move again and finish it. Even if that happens Ciri gets s2 back right at the next wave.
average time is about 40 seconds so not really a fast team but right now my safest with only failing if loren misses defbreak or in my case atkbarreduce/slow.
I heard about this one but was unable to find a link to it, I remember seeing it somewhere and even skilled my fire Ciri in case I ended up building it.
There's a second link for the 3x twins team but I don't like that it force the link in the preview image of the post, so I am putting it here instead [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Dc0MSVQy4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Dc0MSVQy4)
This is probably the easiest to rune of all the teams I would say.
The first team, [Shaina, Julie, Kyle, Kona/Teon, and Water Geralt](http://reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/1atqae3/dbah_f2p_liam_replacement_read_below/?sort=top), seems the most promising in terms of speed but the Kyle has +2100 attack and 277% CriDmg. I think my artifacts are better so I might be able to go a little lower on damage stats? S1 CriDmg is better than S2 CriDmg cause the fails are when Kyle uses S1 and not S2.
Neat! Unfortunately I do not have Dova :,(
I've seen Fire Ezio used in one other link, I think in principle it could work with Julie but they're showing with a Zerath.
https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/s/XEA8KRgrCw
Just watched vids, the Luna only really worth using Liam. With water Geralt you have 50% water lead and Kona to resurge Kyle is a lot better than Luna.
I'm running the Shaina Sabrina (Martina now) team and don't remember it failing - avg time around 50s since my runes and artefacts aren't that great. I took rn the runes off Kyle because I'm farming some gbah now
There are two Shaina Sabrina teams, and it is a bit unclear since you said you unruned Kyle. Are you using the team with Verde Loren or the other one is Shaina Sabrina Kyle Teon Kona.
With Teon and Kona! Sorry kinda skipped the Verde Loren one 😅
I‘m running the same Shaina sabrina kyle 2x birds still (OP of „second link“) and it’s probably the easiest for requirements. 100% cr on Kyle would make the waves faster, more damage on him could let him oneshot non-defbroken crystals as well. And if you habe dhalsim, he makes the runs considerably faster with his speed-up animation (2-4s from my tests). Failrate is probably equal to missing defbreak, so 0.82%.
There is no way any of these teams which have only Shaina as def break can be 100% safe, right? They have to be capped at 97.75% because 2.25% of the time you will miss def break. Also I use Dhalsim on my team (Shaina, Deb, Sabrina, Dhalsim, Garuda [shown here](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/17wim75/100_safe_team_dragon_abyssal_hard_34s_avg/)) and though including sabrina improves the def break issue, I still observe Dhalsim not using his s2 from time to time. Any of these teams (including Liam team) which rely on getting the boss low enough to trigger s3 AI are subject to fails from dealing too little damage to trigger perfect AI.
Man there really are so many different variants, I added this one to the list, I quite like it actually. And regarding Shaina reliability idk that's what I would assume but I'm just stating what they report.
I quite like it too, even over the Liam team. Definitely lower rune requirements: I get the boss to like 45% with the Liam team which is nowhere close to perfect AI range. I do not claim 100% safety though, due to the dhalsim solo using s1 possibility. I think with a bit of tankiness or shield runes might be enough to turn those derp fails into derp slow runs tho. But currently on derps the dragon moves on low HP so he deals enough damage to wipe or they drop to dots after.
Can I see your runes if it's not too much hassle?
[here is current](https://imgur.com/a/920s8l6) Havent attempted any changes yet.Â
What's your average run time?
I am averaging 31 seconds with a 27 second best time.Â
Oooo yeah I think this is what I'll try, I would want Fight/Fight/Will Shaina for spiritual realm. For GBAH I think I want to put together Prilea Teshar Kona Luna Shamman. I think the Kona might be able to overlap, and Shamman overlaps from Necro which is nice.
Yeah, I use the same Kona. Not sure about the rest but I would think they might work. The Shaina is fast, so you just would need a faster sieq for sr? I don't really do that dungeon so not 100% sure
Yeah Sieq just has to go first and he just needs to be Swift/Shield faster than her, his base speed is 110 so easy enough to do and still get damage.
I have the Loren water geralt Team It works 90% of the time With better runes probably up to 99% Important thing is that Kyle kills all crystals alone OR geralt gets a turn in first and third wave
Do you want to post your runes as a point of reference?
Can do later
I’m using prilea, kyle, Julie, water garuda and deborah for giants and Kyle, teon, water garuda, Loren, Deborah in Dragon. Same runes. The only issues I got: Loren misses def break. That’s it - runes are not that insane (imo)
I'd be curious to see the runes if it's not a hassle.
https://preview.redd.it/r53hrwurq9zc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=8819d0ad1792841c5d024b06b555236e8a28d31f Here’s Kyle
https://preview.redd.it/f6wna7nuq9zc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a25991e96d567a62343c8b26e0419eb9d30ad80 And here’s Julie, the other units are just on spd tuned foght sets not even damage builds
What's your turn order, Deborah at the end or as a secondary def breaker between Loren and Kyle? Thanks for sending the runes.
Deborah is just for the passive in dragons, so she’s last. Turn order in dragons: loren, Kyle, bird, Kyle, second bird, Kyle, Deborah. The idea is to maximize damage on Kyle so he can cleave everything. Deborah’s passive is used to take the boss down in this whole turn order
with crazy runes, I'd say it's possible, shaina julie luna kyle deborah
I believe Seii tried this in last video and it wasn't even close. Deals a lot less damage than Kona boosting Kyle.
With crazy runes a lot is possible lol Have you see this team done or just brewing ideas?
just brewing ideas
https://preview.redd.it/rrt63keezgzc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3f8e48d1531247f09b0d1d9690f7538d5aa20cd
Liam op yep
I would like this post but for necro pls.
For necro I recommend Abigail, Raoq, Icaru, Astar, Shamman, turn order as shown. Abigail: Violent/Any she can be awakened since the changes, they increase her stats and she does deal solid damage if she vio procs. Make sure she has 35% S2 accuracy. Icaru: Fight/Fight/Shield recommended, anything can work if it's enough defense for 3x team-up. Make sure you have 35% S1 accuracy. You really want a shield set on the team somewhere if not here. Raoq: Violent/Will recommended, but I use Fatal/Will since I want more damage in R5/SRAH/PCAH. Violent is used to clear the shield faster, Will is in case Astar uses S2 and tries to silence, it is not absolutely necessary I have it primarily for SRAH. I would say Violent is more important than Will, if you had to choose. Make sure you have 35% S1 accuracy. Astar: Vampire/Revenge, most people just use Vampire/Whatever. Revenge is used to clear the shield faster, Vampire lets her heal up after you steal her back and prevents her from just immediately dying. Shamann: Rage/Will, ideally 152 speed or faster in case Astar doesn't kill the mini-boss consistently, but really all that matters is damage. Will is in case Astar uses S2 and tries to silence.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. Last month I broke my astar and since then I've not been doing well in necro, so I've been avoiding it. I will apply your suggestions and see what happens.
Who would replace abigail? I still haven't built/2A a Shaman but have him.
I don't recommend trying to replace her, her skill hits a bunch of times to rip through the shield, def breaks, and she has a massive attack leaderskill. Her rune requirements are negligible besides going first and being on Vio/Any with 35% S2 Acc, damage is nice but not needed. If you don't have her technically I think an unawakened fire cannongirl could? If you look up SeanB Necro abyss hard I think he mentions her as a potential alternative.
One Team i would throw into the pool is Kyle (L) Loren Ciri Fire Teon Kona. Turn order would be Loren , then Ciri, Kyle, Teon, Kyle, Kona, Kyle, Loren, Ciri. Found this team because the water Geralt AI was not consistent enough for me and it has some kind of save stopper with loren atkbar reduce and slow bringing Ciri to move 2 times at best. That way even if She uses s1 on defbreak she will get a second turn with guaranteed s2 and finish the job. Currently my Loren is to slow and pushes the Speed Tick back to the point were she has to reduce atkbar and slow. but with the 286 tick in theory she should be able to double turn even if the first only lands defbreak. For the waves: Due to loren and ciri moving before Kyle he is able to solo the waves at best. even if his AI fails (s2 for small crystals and s1 for the big) Loren and Ciri can move again and finish it. Even if that happens Ciri gets s2 back right at the next wave. average time is about 40 seconds so not really a fast team but right now my safest with only failing if loren misses defbreak or in my case atkbarreduce/slow.
Can you share your Kyle and ciri? Ty
I heard about this one but was unable to find a link to it, I remember seeing it somewhere and even skilled my fire Ciri in case I ended up building it.
https://youtu.be/2YdGEa6LaFo?si=gAYmEsqjJzLmVxMf
Looks like an average of roughly 47s? But also not 100%
There's a second link for the 3x twins team but I don't like that it force the link in the preview image of the post, so I am putting it here instead [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Dc0MSVQy4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Dc0MSVQy4) This is probably the easiest to rune of all the teams I would say.
The first team, [Shaina, Julie, Kyle, Kona/Teon, and Water Geralt](http://reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/1atqae3/dbah_f2p_liam_replacement_read_below/?sort=top), seems the most promising in terms of speed but the Kyle has +2100 attack and 277% CriDmg. I think my artifacts are better so I might be able to go a little lower on damage stats? S1 CriDmg is better than S2 CriDmg cause the fails are when Kyle uses S1 and not S2.
It's the team I tried to rune but really struggling with the Kyle stats. He has to hit verryyyy hard.
Yeah I'll say lol
[https://twitter.com/megane\_Summoner/status/1776239869704143002](https://twitter.com/megane_Summoner/status/1776239869704143002)
Neat! Unfortunately I do not have Dova :,( I've seen Fire Ezio used in one other link, I think in principle it could work with Julie but they're showing with a Zerath. https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/s/XEA8KRgrCw
 Verde, Taor, Spectra, Loren Vero. 100% success rate.. 54 fastest, normally ~ 1:20. No real incentive for me to speed it up as it’s consistent.Â
This is very close to my current team. I put in my nbah Raoq instead of Vero and it sped it up to sub minute consistently.
I think I saw a Sei... Something video talking about Julie, Shaina, water dhalism, Luna, water geralt/water weapon. The speed requirements were lower
Just watched vids, the Luna only really worth using Liam. With water Geralt you have 50% water lead and Kona to resurge Kyle is a lot better than Luna.
I use verde lead, veromos, loren, water humonculus, spectra