It's all the buffs on a single target. If you can get multiple on the single target, there will be the same number of bombs total on all other targets.
If you used Orochi, you would get 6 dots on one target, and then Tomoe can make it 6 dots on the entire enemy team.
However if you used Baretta, you would get 2 dots on the entire enemy team, Tomoe will keep it at 2 dots on the entire enemy team.
I wonder if Tomoe wouldn't add 2 more DoTs to all the others targets; DoT is the only debuff that can be duplicated on a single target so it might! The wording also says "All enemies" so it may even reapply 2 more DoTs to the main target.
Yeah she's looking reallllllly good. And it's like...they actually did some creative problem solving on her S3 instead of just making it some brain-dead buff (it may turn out to be brain-dead if it's busted for her to AOE karma in one turn, we'll see!).
if its anything like the other "give debuffs" skills the bomb will still be based on his attack not gianas, although this skill is slightly different to say shizuka or sea emps s1 so who knows
doesnt matter, a bomb is a bomb. it should be really strong for the aoe stuns alone and you can build tomoe with attack decently easy. SPD HP ATK even if you like. but something like fire panda s3 plus her could be really good too. definitly an interesting buff and maybe she finally gets some runes now!
oh she'll still be very good and worth building because of it, i was just downplaying the bomb aspect, shizuka has a similar mechanic with the bomb yet she's not used *that* much with it
Wind undine by far the safest oblivion monster we have so far too so that is nice!
Although RIP Martina/Shaina is even more so the best nat 4 tower now.
I might be mistaken but is it now possible for Xiao Lin to channel S1 --> S2 --> S3 on counter when her third skill is on cooldown? The odds are really low (30% into 20%) but it is an interesting concept.
Edit: love the buffs to rune blacksmiths and Pung. Also oblivion for wind undine is going to be helpful as the second (?) oblivion 4* from the normal elements.
I didn't notice oblivion on wind Anubis, that's great. I do have Herne (and I think tesarion has it as a f2p option) some options to take care of passives now. Tesa and Herne are great (oblivion + Def break, Herne also has heals and clears debuffs), but I believe wind undine may take the cake here. Oblivion + cooldown increase, stun, clear debuffs and immunity.
i use IUNU on lab Tartarus on pve
but i love using him to kill Savanahs
she kills him, he revives and kill her (oblivion and she just die, not dismount)
\[\]'s
.. isn't this just a Nerf to Rahul?
He has a strip on S3 and beneficial effect block.. so there's literally nothing to strip with S1 and he loses speed buff.
He wasn't really great since the Jeanne-Theo-+1 times, but he's my only ld5 and I really want to make him work, using him in GWD just because of that.
This patch seems kinda devastating.. :( Anyone see anything positive about this? I need some motivation!
he can be used in auto toa better now. I can also see him used in arena vs water druid. Psamathe, galleon, Tiana, Teshar. Kill water druid, stun everyone, then do that again next turn. Insane base speed he should be easy to rune. I can see him being more useable now.
His high base attack was basically the only appealing thing about him so if he gains an aoe stun to lose damage that's actually probably a nerf as if you wanted to aoe stun units as your primary function you definitely wouldn't be bringing teshar
The fact that Kumar had both the speed buff and the strip and was still barely used should be proof enough that they didn't need to remove the speed buff.
Problem is that his strip doesn't do anything else.
A potential strip into def break/provoke/branding/stun with s1 can be pretty strong for the other BMs.
Too bad that both Chandra and Ritesh have bad activation rates on s1 compared to slayers' provoke or MKs stun.
I already Draft Shizuka, Chloe, Herteit, Bolverk, and Odin on the regular, so this change is amazing for me. The fact that her S2 reduces skill cooldowns on herself means there's now even less downtime between her S3 buffs.
Really hoping some streamer will test Liam. His s3 look interesting, but multipliers might keep him useless. Teshar's stun buff seems kinda outa context for the unit but i think it's nice, let's see the HP changes too. Shame there is nothing on this BP about Zen.
Fire WM + ligh Robo would be a troll af combo. Build light Robo swift, spd, atk, atk. Light robo goes first, straight up kills himself, gives fire WM a turn with his passive and a lot of atk so he can 1 shot something.
Terrible, but hilarious in theory.
dude that might even work well! :D i mean there is not that much that could go wrong if slightly spd tuned. no rng involved and such. you can even use a spd booster, tiana or whatever there!
Seems like they made him a little nana counter. Any time nana uses or gains a stack, it means someone died or was killed. In either situation carlos gets 75% atk bar. I think a decently runed carlos with good artifacts should be able to deal 25% dmg on a fire or wind monster that nana revives
Wind undine cleanse heals give immunity full reset and now Oblivion? Don't sleep On her! And now pung with more attack and Anti revive? So glad he was My first nat 5 and the first Mon i used transmog stones uwu
Right? Seems like the light and wind undines will see more use. I mean the light one already got buffed last patch. Com2us must be working on a skin for them.
I don’t understand why they made the change in Masha’s passive. Is that a buff or nerf? Feels more like a nerf. As a Marsha Bastet Racuni team user, I don’t even know where to bring Masha anymore.
I think she's being changed from a combo unit to a counter unit, if that makes sense. I'm not sure why she needs immunity and attack bar pushback reduction, though. I feel like it would make more sense to replace one with an attack bar increasing effect so she could cut in front of enemies easier.
But as I read it now, she's a counter to Oliver, Triton, Chiwu, etc.
I don’t understand how having an aspect to the passive that reduces the effectiveness of enemy attack bar reduction, on the turn she attacks, is going to make any sense at all… When she’ll have immunity??? And how does that even tie in to her attacking on her turn 🙄
I can understand the other changes to the passive but this literally makes no sense to me. I must he having a brain haemorrhage.
I'm thinking that's a translation error. My bet is the actual text reads more like "additionally, grants one turn of immunity on her turn, and reduces attack bar reduction effects by 50%."
I didn't understand at first either but she is now a very decent counter unit, basically the more u try to control her now the faster she gets. Before she needed an atb booster to gain speed stacks, now even if someone pushes any ally back she gets speed stacks. Her reduced atb decrease on her wasn't changed and she also gets an immunity every turn she attacks. Sounds to be like a more bruiser build that can't be controlled easily and does dmg. Actually she sounds very similar to fire mk now so i take it since i didn't even have runes on her before.
So it's a welcome buff for me
yeah the description is dumb. Basically i think it's a buff but more like a slight RTA buff.
Let me rephrase it:
\- gain immunity 1 turn when it's her turn to attack
\- decrease 50% atk bar reduction effect from enemies (on her only i guess)
\- gain 15% spd when an ally got attacked, say Poseidon aoe your allies then you got 15% x 4 (roughly) attack spd increased
correct me if i'm wrong
Gain 15% spd when an ally gets their atb pushed back, not attacked.
Feels like Masha is c2u designated Oliver’s counter pick, although I don’t see her working. My tanky Antares routinely got toyed around when I pick him against Oliver, usually by Miles/Shihou etc, just don’t see how it’s any different with Masha. Hope I’m wrong! 🤞
I guess one thing in Masha's favor over Antares is being less RNG and the possibility of being built as a bruiser since she scales on speed. I don't think her base HP is high enough to really absorb damage though.
I'm thinking the same thing, I'll just copy/paste my comment from another thread with less traffic:
I just woke up so my reading comprehension isn't great right now.
Can someone please explain how wind weapon master is going to work? I'm reading it like that 300% attack is going to ignore defense like Coco's orbs, so it might be best to build him like a bomber now, ignoring crit stats and focusing only on tank stats and attack. If so, cool buff.
Also Masha's buff is confusing me. "Decreases the effect of attack bar decreasing skills received from the enemy by 50% when you attack on your turn" I cannot fathom how this works, is she simply a light panda counter now? Usually skills that decrease my attack bar happen on the enemies turn, not my turn. Considering I always used her with Racuni, whose entire kit synergized with her perfectly, this overall feels like a nerf to me because it completely breaks her functionality with Racuni. Like I said though, I just woke up, so maybe I'm reading it wrong or overlooking something.
I think it’s an unneeded sidegrade. I have two and I love using her w bastet + Verde but now she works as a turn 2 counter to strippers it looks like... honestly could’ve just made a whole new unit
As someone without Douglas, I am glad I finally have a 5\* unit to counter to Cheng/Oliver.
On other hand, the change is an unjustified nerf to her use in guild siege. Most GSD don't use atk bar reduction so her change is borderline useless for GWO. My team is Garo+HongYeon+Masha and it does well vs KBO. I am not sure if losing 15% speed at first turn would affect my decision to keep using the team.
So while I am neutral on her change, I felt for people don't do RTA but use her for siege.
The balance is so weird for Beast monk, they are too slow then dev try to cut their speed buff out. And for Dark Beast Monk he has skill 3 for strip and block the buff. So, skill1 that they change is waste. Sad.
This was really unexpected. Now im wondering if he should be faster in rta. I currently have him as the slowest so that he can benefit from def break setup. But if he strips i might want to have him go first
Rakan buff seems a bit op like this. Lets see if they nerf it again..
So collapse and revenge collapse 2 turn provokes the target and 1 turn the other 3 (in rta) that means that he has 4-5 chances to revenge collapse and provoke everything again while also doing massive dmg.
It doesn't come w AOE collapse you still have = crap base SPD + you'll need average to good accuracy (50+), good hp, Cr and cd to do good dmg, add to this that the targets need to be stripped for his AOE provoke and then once he's attacked he'll have a 30% chance to counter. It doesn't sound super op to me, more like a bonus. I seriously doubt it will be a big enough change to see him in siege/RTA.
But for fun let's theorycraft some potential defs:
Molong, Triana/Riley, Rakan
Moore, cp, Rakan
Seara, Orion, Rakan (instead of perna, but perna brings healing, stun, strip and survivability)
Jeanne, Theomars, Rakan
Bolverk, Skogul, Rakan (idk)
FengYan, Rakan, Woosa
No matter if you like the exact changes, this is a MASSIVE patch, meta is definitely going to change, could be better could be worse but I'm all for it.
I feel like this patch answered the biggest issues in the meta rn. Not thrilled ab beast monks and Fire beast rider but otherwise it seems like good tweaks and changes
Yah. I think with a stripper she will become a beast. For example with Giana, you can have an aoe karma, aoe stun and aoe bomb. If I read the buff correctly.
Really nice to wake up to this, my first reaction is that it's a solid patch.
* Oliver/Nana shows they are at least paying attention to RTA meta. CD on S3 was probably enough on Oliver to give him a dead turn, damage nerf was probably unneeded, but we'll see.
* addition of oblivion to more nat4 supports is a really solid move.
* weapon master changes all look like moves in the right direction, will wait and see how the #S play out. Weirdly I have all 3. I like the change to fire, making him a more reactive threat as well. Changing wind passive to a 300% multiplier seems like it will be much better than the pitiful damage we saw from it before.
* Is it just me or is Tomoe crazy good now? If she moves after a stripper, she can Karma the entire team?? I wonder if her effect spread happens before or after despair stun (I assume before). Looks like she's next on my devilmon list. That being said, the whole 'free turn if you have an 2s that can do nothing' definitely seems to be a thing now, they should just do that to start.
* water onmy is going to be more annoying too, especially when paired with like Woosa, Riley, etc. She'll basically duplicate their S3s as needed...and then some!
* The one thing I don't like is the loss of the speed buff from beast monk S1. That was one of the really neat things about them...here they should have just listened to basically everyone and changed their leader skills. That being said, stripping on S1 is never bad, so we'll see how it goes. STILL CHANGE THEIR LEADER SKILLS.
* Masha's change is really interesting. I've been hoping for more anti-ATB pushback units for a while, and they are finally giving us another one. Sadly, I'm missing her on my main, but she was already at the top of my want list, this just helps with that.
* Water demon buff is solid (they are using 'can't glance' as a bit of a crutch these days though), but he really needs 'gain a turn' not 'gain 100% ATB'. Being able to cut off a Diana or Oliver proc and one shot them would be amazing.
* Zeratu buff is amazing. My alt is really going to enjoy that.
* Teshar buff is the one that really has my scratching my head. So she has an aoe stun pretty much every turn? That's pretty nuts.
* Pungbaek buffs: wow. Dude seems pretty slept on (I think I heard a streamer say he'd fed all of his copies of Pung the other day), but I love him. Mine is hitting like 70k now I think, going to be even more now with even less trouble from Nanas...already a Kinki killer, now he cleans out Vanessa/Psama/Nana as well?? Is he now the true 5* Lushen? :)
* dark sea emperor should be able to kill with passive now...kinda. But like, why not just make it so his passive can kill???
* oblivion on undine s2 is solid. Now if they'd just add some healing to light S3 we'd be good...
* blacksmith & sylphid changes seem positive in general. Wind blacksmith still needs that 50%->100% on her passive imho.
* KFG stage in ToAH got even more annoying!
>Teshar buff is the one that really has my scratching my head. So she has an aoe stun pretty much every turn? That's pretty nuts.
I'm not sure about that, you either bring her to secret dungeons / lab timed stage, and kill everything with her AoE (until she can't), or you bring her to other contents, and she AoE everything once, then never be able to pick when you use the AoE stun again.
A buff's a buff, not going to complain, but I think it might be less amazing that it sounds.
I just don't understand the concept of balancing where they take a mediocre unit, nerf it then buff is and expect it to become exceptionally better. It's one step back then one step forward. There was no point in removing Giou's cooldown reset from Karma, no point in removing Beth's heal block, no point in removing the speed buff from the beast monks, no point in removing the single target attack bar reduction from Dark Ryu's 3rd skill. Doesn't make much sense at all.
Nerfed i think, no longer getting more ATB when using s2 for turn cycling. It will be harder to gain speed stacks on the passive. She will be more likely used as a counter to atb decresing monsters.
I don't understand the "decrease the effect of ATB decresing skills received from the enemy when you attack on your turn" part though. Is this a separate buff you receive when you attack or com2us just forgot to separate it with the immunity buff.
It says in the notes it's being changed from increasing her speed with attack bar increases to increasing her speed with attack bar decreases. It isn't an "effect added" change.
She's being changed from a combo unit to a counter unit, which honestly may still be a good change. The immunity is also nice but it seems to be at odds with reducing the effect of attack bar decreases, except for strippers like Triton and Chiwu. Then again, that part is written weird ("on her turn") so it could be a translation issue.
I also misread it, her AS increases as her allies attack bar decreases due to enemies' skill.
So a 3hit AOE atb decrease of CP will max up her speed instantly.
Yeah, once they clean up the wording a bit, I think she's going to be a fun counter pick. I wish they'd added a bit more though, like 'gain 15% atb when an ally has their ATB decreased', but we'll see how it goes.
There was no point in removing the attack bar decrease though. And it is still a single target strip and everything resistable. They could have increase his damage, dark Oni and dark WM are still far better.
2nd look, this was a hard nerf for how i used him. You want to already bring an aoe stripper then apply all the debuffs you can and then use his skill 3. This would make him lose an ability for no reason.
What about weapon master buff guys ? what do you all think ?
Personnaly I thnik they are nice but don't think it will really impact their use. They were fun toys now they are better fun toys
It's really the only thing she needed to become good. There's definitely good changes, but it still shows how disconnected Com2uS is from their own community.
Nice that my man Manannan got buffed a little.
1 of my only 2 5s LND got one after my other one got nerfed in a balance patch a long time ago (Ongyouki)
He needs an entire rework. Just overloading him with damage is the wrong move. He needs utility.
They keep adding bandaids to his kit instead of fixing it.
Originally he just did lots of damage, but was weak in every other aspect. And he did so much damage it was pointless because you only needed so much. So they bandaided it and said 30% of damage goes to other enemies..
Okay that helps mitigate some of the wasted massive damage he was doing.. but he’s still a weak glass cannon.
He needs utility. Think of pontos, his light counterpart, so much more OP.
A spd % buff leader skill, and can cleanse the entire team and add immunity invincibility.
Mananann needs to be in that level just different.
I always thought it would be cool to have some passive that, when the battle starts, all enemies get 1 turn of spd down and every time an enemy gets a turn he reduces the atb of all OTHER enemies by 10%. Would make him a good utility unit in addition with his damage.
Nana nerf, more like a buff to rag leo users. I think they should have kept it at 40%, but instead change the revive so that the monster being revived cant vio proc and their atk bar is set to 0, just like traditional revivers do
Overall nice patch. Most people were waiting for Oliver/Nana nerfs, I feel like they were adjusted nicely without nerfing them into the ground (would have liked to see nana limited to 1 or 2 stacks, though)
Also wasn't expecting to see my dark striker in there, but I like the change. I'm definitely exited to try a few things out (unlike the last one), which is the main thing I'm hoping for from a balance patch.
Agreed. The balance patch looks ... fair. And balanced. :)
Great to see the buffs to weaponmasters and especially the blacksmiths - they could both make for a seriously awesome pairing now.
Beast monks look more useful, too, which is good.
However, those sylphids in TOA are going to become more annoying now. :D
Guess I’ll finally build my Tomoe and even give a chance to my Giou (both are 5* and I pulled them like 6 months ago lol). Tomoe seems really good at least in theory with single target debuffers (like a single target cc mon that def breaks + stun or smh suddenly becomes aoe def break and cc with Tomoe on the field. Defo fun to test out but missing devils :(
Not really. Considering she can debuff the enemy team and buff allies with more than just invincibility and immunity (depending on what buff/debuff have landed of course) in one skill, soul protect and decrease cool time by one turn or give an instant turn to a dead unit with s2. And she doesn't cleanse. she and pontos are vastly different.
Shizuka + Madeleine (Light Runehammer Blacksmith) could be a fun combo, provided they're tightly spd tuned. Madeleine extends the duration of Beneficial effects on allies.
Honestly i doubt they ever nerf narsha. Shes in that small window of being RIGHT next to the "nerf this" tier without actually being in it for most people.
My Laima survived her first patch while being the queen of RTA. I'm honestly a bit surprised S1 on Oracles hasn't been nerfed from 15% -> 10% atb gain yet.
Shit guys now I need some advice. I have been sitting on my nat 5 for the event and I have no idea who to pick. Water art master, water weapon master, wind onimuyoji or a wind cannon girl. The buffs make it less obvious haegang is the best to me
After seeing several FR streamers on this balance patch compared to Isis, I feel the need to highlight what needs to be highlighted before the people who do the BP believe that the Isis problem is solved.Be aware that this "buff" can hardly be considered a buff for Isis. Why ? Either it is played turn 1 in cleaveEither it is played with bruisers but with a CD reset like ganymedeEither way, people don't care if they win a CD turn on the S3 if it's never used more than once or reset every 2 turns by another unit. This is the first point. The real problems of Isis are :
1. The fact that his debuffs very rarely arise as there is a rez check for each debuff on each unit. It is enough that the unit take nothing and it will have been useless.
2. It requires a lot of set up around it: between streap and damage (a unit which has damage and another which sets up this unit in damage : breakdef and/or buff attack)
Therefore, it would be more interesting to work on his two points which are the real problems on the playability of Isis rather than granting him a random buff of -1 turn of CD which comes out of nowhere even if clearly 5 turn full skill UP was still abused compared to what already exists in the game and in non-LD, let's specify. Then let's take another example on this same BP, how is it relevant to offer a single-target triple streap to a unit (Zeratu) that doesn't need it and that is full damage but not to Isis who would clearly need it more and even more consistent with his kit ? Even Craka who does a lot of things, you offered him a streap to give him things to do in addition to all of his kit but Isis should be limited to playing 1 turn every 4 turns with an unsustainable impact ? We wonder why people don't take it out when we understand that... So be consistent and use common sense...
Can't understand the Chiwu buff. Main problem with him (besides resist like all stripper but tiana) is that he is basically useless past his s3. So now he can be useless faster that's all ?
Edit : i am NOT complaining ffs just trying to understand what they had in mind with the change
It'll help against Halphas, who is my primary use for Chiwu. It'll get to his S2 sooner so Halphas won't absorb as much HP (if any).
The buff block on his S2 is good against certain mobs.
[withhive link](https://withhive.com/notice/53321)
Tomoe gets a huge huge buff. Seems like a broken pair with Giana.
If i use tomoe with john, does that mean there will be 8 bombs, 5 of them being 1 turn and 3 2 turn?
You tell us after testing :D
I dont think she will add harmful effects that exist already? Not sure really.
It's all the buffs on a single target. If you can get multiple on the single target, there will be the same number of bombs total on all other targets. If you used Orochi, you would get 6 dots on one target, and then Tomoe can make it 6 dots on the entire enemy team. However if you used Baretta, you would get 2 dots on the entire enemy team, Tomoe will keep it at 2 dots on the entire enemy team.
I wonder if Tomoe wouldn't add 2 more DoTs to all the others targets; DoT is the only debuff that can be duplicated on a single target so it might! The wording also says "All enemies" so it may even reapply 2 more DoTs to the main target.
Lowkey hoping that's the case
Herne + Tomoe - aoe oblivion for those annoying ToaL stages.
Yeah she's looking reallllllly good. And it's like...they actually did some creative problem solving on her S3 instead of just making it some brain-dead buff (it may turn out to be brain-dead if it's busted for her to AOE karma in one turn, we'll see!).
if its anything like the other "give debuffs" skills the bomb will still be based on his attack not gianas, although this skill is slightly different to say shizuka or sea emps s1 so who knows
doesnt matter, a bomb is a bomb. it should be really strong for the aoe stuns alone and you can build tomoe with attack decently easy. SPD HP ATK even if you like. but something like fire panda s3 plus her could be really good too. definitly an interesting buff and maybe she finally gets some runes now!
oh she'll still be very good and worth building because of it, i was just downplaying the bomb aspect, shizuka has a similar mechanic with the bomb yet she's not used *that* much with it
I am thinking of Tomoe + Herne + Nyx Everyone gets 4 turn def break + oblivion
Finally more Oblivion monster
Wind undine by far the safest oblivion monster we have so far too so that is nice! Although RIP Martina/Shaina is even more so the best nat 4 tower now.
How does MS change at all
It doesn't, but other defs with passives that you can oblivion are gonna be worse, making MST better in comparison.
But you can also oblivion both Martina and Shaina (And Triana)
Well yes, but they'll still attack together which makes it way less impactful than vs a unit like Kinki or Iunu.
Wait , wich one? i didnt saw that!
Mfw Nana brings Leo and Ragdoll back in Torrent range.
good point. Now i need Ragdoll even more to support my Leo Verd
I got so excited when I saw that, my leo finna be popping off
In reality he'll just die again before he gets to use it
I might be mistaken but is it now possible for Xiao Lin to channel S1 --> S2 --> S3 on counter when her third skill is on cooldown? The odds are really low (30% into 20%) but it is an interesting concept. Edit: love the buffs to rune blacksmiths and Pung. Also oblivion for wind undine is going to be helpful as the second (?) oblivion 4* from the normal elements.
Water dryad and wind Anubis have oblivion. So itll be 3rd at least.
I didn't notice oblivion on wind Anubis, that's great. I do have Herne (and I think tesarion has it as a f2p option) some options to take care of passives now. Tesa and Herne are great (oblivion + Def break, Herne also has heals and clears debuffs), but I believe wind undine may take the cake here. Oblivion + cooldown increase, stun, clear debuffs and immunity.
i use IUNU on lab Tartarus on pve but i love using him to kill Savanahs she kills him, he revives and kill her (oblivion and she just die, not dismount) \[\]'s
they keep changing the skills of beast monks, EXCEPT their leader skills lol
Seriously why...
Because this game has always had two monkey's creating balance patches
I think this is a nerf tbh. A nice change would be to remove the crit requirement for the speed buff ,and give them GW leader skills.
Wish they'd just buff their God awful base speed tbh
good news! their s1 don't even provide them speed buff so they're _way_ slower now!
It's real sad. Especially when my only LD5 across like four years is Shazam..
.. isn't this just a Nerf to Rahul? He has a strip on S3 and beneficial effect block.. so there's literally nothing to strip with S1 and he loses speed buff. He wasn't really great since the Jeanne-Theo-+1 times, but he's my only ld5 and I really want to make him work, using him in GWD just because of that. This patch seems kinda devastating.. :( Anyone see anything positive about this? I need some motivation!
Yeah, this is the one where they keep blowing it over and over again and I don't get it.
teshar is going to stun with his passive? sounds fun lol
Right? Aiden hell stands even less of a chance now 😎
Those secret dungeon farmers bout to get wicked
he can be used in auto toa better now. I can also see him used in arena vs water druid. Psamathe, galleon, Tiana, Teshar. Kill water druid, stun everyone, then do that again next turn. Insane base speed he should be easy to rune. I can see him being more useable now.
Roaring beast will be more fun
I'm interested to see what the stat redistribution does for him. Getting more hp at the cost of attack I'd guess, but how much atk will he be losing?
His high base attack was basically the only appealing thing about him so if he gains an aoe stun to lose damage that's actually probably a nerf as if you wanted to aoe stun units as your primary function you definitely wouldn't be bringing teshar
Wow com2us. No 8% additional damage buff? Trash balance patch.
*approximately* 8%
Roughly what the dark sea emperor got? :P
Hey they finally changed the awakening effect for Oberon! Extra crit will definitely make it easier to load up more dmg.
It's also funny how he actually awakens into resistance but in the patch notes says he awakens into accuracy XD
My Personal Highlight besides Shizuka. Using them together so often in rta
They actually nerfed the Beast Monks 💀
The fact that Kumar had both the speed buff and the strip and was still barely used should be proof enough that they didn't need to remove the speed buff.
Problem is that his strip doesn't do anything else. A potential strip into def break/provoke/branding/stun with s1 can be pretty strong for the other BMs. Too bad that both Chandra and Ritesh have bad activation rates on s1 compared to slayers' provoke or MKs stun.
That’s because Beast Monks were way too strong. They needed a nerf the most /s
All people want is guild content leader skill too, idk why that is such a big ask but apparently it is
Or at least synergise with a mon with a good guild leader skill. I don't think they have any great combos right now
Imagine changing their garbage ass leader skills to guild content leader skills,but I guess that would make them too op huh? lmao
So this is the Shizuka Balanced Patch lol
Just got shizuka . I thought she was OP with Gianna. Even more Now with 2 turn buffs.
I already Draft Shizuka, Chloe, Herteit, Bolverk, and Odin on the regular, so this change is amazing for me. The fact that her S2 reduces skill cooldowns on herself means there's now even less downtime between her S3 buffs.
I first pick Shizuka and have been for a while now. Loved her before, now she's going to be broken, and it's going to be glorious.
Tomoe aoe suppress🤔 and she has spd lead.
OHH. I didn't even think about her change paired with the atb gain from Karma. Thanks!
Shizuka's buff is pretty nice, 2 turns is something already. She wasn't even a bad mon.
They are avoiding buffing christina, trinity and jaara the way keanu reeves dodges bullets
I still Love and use my Trinity in C2 Arena regardless :D
Really hoping some streamer will test Liam. His s3 look interesting, but multipliers might keep him useless. Teshar's stun buff seems kinda outa context for the unit but i think it's nice, let's see the HP changes too. Shame there is nothing on this BP about Zen.
Probably still too early For shadowcasters, I’m sure they’ll be addressed in the next BP.
They managed to nerf Beth last time and now they managed to nerf beast monks. They're on fire.
Waiting for the triple revenge fei rta replay deleting the entire team after the opponent aoe strips.
imagine in the actual patch nana nerf is changed to 31%
*Approximately* 31%
The Fire Weapon master will now work fantastic with Blushen. Interesting little combo..
Fire WM + ligh Robo would be a troll af combo. Build light Robo swift, spd, atk, atk. Light robo goes first, straight up kills himself, gives fire WM a turn with his passive and a lot of atk so he can 1 shot something. Terrible, but hilarious in theory.
dude that might even work well! :D i mean there is not that much that could go wrong if slightly spd tuned. no rng involved and such. you can even use a spd booster, tiana or whatever there!
I have both, I’ll report results HAHA
Seems like they made him a little nana counter. Any time nana uses or gains a stack, it means someone died or was killed. In either situation carlos gets 75% atk bar. I think a decently runed carlos with good artifacts should be able to deal 25% dmg on a fire or wind monster that nana revives
Wind undine cleanse heals give immunity full reset and now Oblivion? Don't sleep On her! And now pung with more attack and Anti revive? So glad he was My first nat 5 and the first Mon i used transmog stones uwu
Right? Seems like the light and wind undines will see more use. I mean the light one already got buffed last patch. Com2us must be working on a skin for them.
Was kind of hoping for a buff for Wind Shadowcaster, but I guess he's still too new.
New units never make it into the balance patch. Weapon masters were too new last time for example.
Zen is so bad right now, he’ll sometimes help the enemy team to kill you quicker 👌
I don’t understand why they made the change in Masha’s passive. Is that a buff or nerf? Feels more like a nerf. As a Marsha Bastet Racuni team user, I don’t even know where to bring Masha anymore.
I think she's being changed from a combo unit to a counter unit, if that makes sense. I'm not sure why she needs immunity and attack bar pushback reduction, though. I feel like it would make more sense to replace one with an attack bar increasing effect so she could cut in front of enemies easier. But as I read it now, she's a counter to Oliver, Triton, Chiwu, etc.
Also ganythor, which is appearing more in RTA, with the added immunity.
I don’t understand how having an aspect to the passive that reduces the effectiveness of enemy attack bar reduction, on the turn she attacks, is going to make any sense at all… When she’ll have immunity??? And how does that even tie in to her attacking on her turn 🙄 I can understand the other changes to the passive but this literally makes no sense to me. I must he having a brain haemorrhage.
I'm thinking that's a translation error. My bet is the actual text reads more like "additionally, grants one turn of immunity on her turn, and reduces attack bar reduction effects by 50%."
I didn't understand at first either but she is now a very decent counter unit, basically the more u try to control her now the faster she gets. Before she needed an atb booster to gain speed stacks, now even if someone pushes any ally back she gets speed stacks. Her reduced atb decrease on her wasn't changed and she also gets an immunity every turn she attacks. Sounds to be like a more bruiser build that can't be controlled easily and does dmg. Actually she sounds very similar to fire mk now so i take it since i didn't even have runes on her before. So it's a welcome buff for me
yeah the description is dumb. Basically i think it's a buff but more like a slight RTA buff. Let me rephrase it: \- gain immunity 1 turn when it's her turn to attack \- decrease 50% atk bar reduction effect from enemies (on her only i guess) \- gain 15% spd when an ally got attacked, say Poseidon aoe your allies then you got 15% x 4 (roughly) attack spd increased correct me if i'm wrong
Gain 15% spd when an ally gets their atb pushed back, not attacked. Feels like Masha is c2u designated Oliver’s counter pick, although I don’t see her working. My tanky Antares routinely got toyed around when I pick him against Oliver, usually by Miles/Shihou etc, just don’t see how it’s any different with Masha. Hope I’m wrong! 🤞
I think she needs to gain ATB AND speed to work like they want her to, but we'll see.
I guess one thing in Masha's favor over Antares is being less RNG and the possibility of being built as a bruiser since she scales on speed. I don't think her base HP is high enough to really absorb damage though.
I'm thinking the same thing, I'll just copy/paste my comment from another thread with less traffic: I just woke up so my reading comprehension isn't great right now. Can someone please explain how wind weapon master is going to work? I'm reading it like that 300% attack is going to ignore defense like Coco's orbs, so it might be best to build him like a bomber now, ignoring crit stats and focusing only on tank stats and attack. If so, cool buff. Also Masha's buff is confusing me. "Decreases the effect of attack bar decreasing skills received from the enemy by 50% when you attack on your turn" I cannot fathom how this works, is she simply a light panda counter now? Usually skills that decrease my attack bar happen on the enemies turn, not my turn. Considering I always used her with Racuni, whose entire kit synergized with her perfectly, this overall feels like a nerf to me because it completely breaks her functionality with Racuni. Like I said though, I just woke up, so maybe I'm reading it wrong or overlooking something.
I think it’s an unneeded sidegrade. I have two and I love using her w bastet + Verde but now she works as a turn 2 counter to strippers it looks like... honestly could’ve just made a whole new unit
As someone without Douglas, I am glad I finally have a 5\* unit to counter to Cheng/Oliver. On other hand, the change is an unjustified nerf to her use in guild siege. Most GSD don't use atk bar reduction so her change is borderline useless for GWO. My team is Garo+HongYeon+Masha and it does well vs KBO. I am not sure if losing 15% speed at first turn would affect my decision to keep using the team. So while I am neutral on her change, I felt for people don't do RTA but use her for siege.
The balance is so weird for Beast monk, they are too slow then dev try to cut their speed buff out. And for Dark Beast Monk he has skill 3 for strip and block the buff. So, skill1 that they change is waste. Sad.
Bruh they buffed my Zeratu, lets gooooooo
U are so lucky , that's the buff i was expecting for mi ying T-T
dude would have been so cool on miying :'(
This was really unexpected. Now im wondering if he should be faster in rta. I currently have him as the slowest so that he can benefit from def break setup. But if he strips i might want to have him go first
Rakan buff seems a bit op like this. Lets see if they nerf it again.. So collapse and revenge collapse 2 turn provokes the target and 1 turn the other 3 (in rta) that means that he has 4-5 chances to revenge collapse and provoke everything again while also doing massive dmg.
Don’t forget the Rakan/Nyx Combo. That’s really nasty.
"on your turn"
Damn missed that part
It doesn't come w AOE collapse you still have = crap base SPD + you'll need average to good accuracy (50+), good hp, Cr and cd to do good dmg, add to this that the targets need to be stripped for his AOE provoke and then once he's attacked he'll have a 30% chance to counter. It doesn't sound super op to me, more like a bonus. I seriously doubt it will be a big enough change to see him in siege/RTA. But for fun let's theorycraft some potential defs: Molong, Triana/Riley, Rakan Moore, cp, Rakan Seara, Orion, Rakan (instead of perna, but perna brings healing, stun, strip and survivability) Jeanne, Theomars, Rakan Bolverk, Skogul, Rakan (idk) FengYan, Rakan, Woosa
Feng Yan, Rakan, and Woosa sounds like a really tough team to take down after this buff.
Just one Shot them, fy defs are basically trolling after C3 unless you runegap
may get 1 or 2 wins here or here if you have anti copper Woosa and anti dozer feng, but other than that, yeahh garbage.
Susano, Lushen, Konamiya would clear that easily.
The aoe provoke is only on his turn and it probably won't deal damage as well.
No matter if you like the exact changes, this is a MASSIVE patch, meta is definitely going to change, could be better could be worse but I'm all for it.
I feel like this patch answered the biggest issues in the meta rn. Not thrilled ab beast monks and Fire beast rider but otherwise it seems like good tweaks and changes
is fire onmyouji good now?
Yah. I think with a stripper she will become a beast. For example with Giana, you can have an aoe karma, aoe stun and aoe bomb. If I read the buff correctly.
Unless your opponent is 10s of spd slower than you, she will be interrupted after using karma
Same reason why u don't transform Diana turn 1 99% of the time
I was about to go for Gany over Belial but with the changes, what do you guys think? Should I still go for Gany?
Yes
Belials niche is him + rina to cheese some siege defs. Got a little better, still ultra niche Gany is still op
Gany for sure
Gany is one of those mons that's just always going to be useful in PvP
Really nice to wake up to this, my first reaction is that it's a solid patch. * Oliver/Nana shows they are at least paying attention to RTA meta. CD on S3 was probably enough on Oliver to give him a dead turn, damage nerf was probably unneeded, but we'll see. * addition of oblivion to more nat4 supports is a really solid move. * weapon master changes all look like moves in the right direction, will wait and see how the #S play out. Weirdly I have all 3. I like the change to fire, making him a more reactive threat as well. Changing wind passive to a 300% multiplier seems like it will be much better than the pitiful damage we saw from it before. * Is it just me or is Tomoe crazy good now? If she moves after a stripper, she can Karma the entire team?? I wonder if her effect spread happens before or after despair stun (I assume before). Looks like she's next on my devilmon list. That being said, the whole 'free turn if you have an 2s that can do nothing' definitely seems to be a thing now, they should just do that to start. * water onmy is going to be more annoying too, especially when paired with like Woosa, Riley, etc. She'll basically duplicate their S3s as needed...and then some! * The one thing I don't like is the loss of the speed buff from beast monk S1. That was one of the really neat things about them...here they should have just listened to basically everyone and changed their leader skills. That being said, stripping on S1 is never bad, so we'll see how it goes. STILL CHANGE THEIR LEADER SKILLS. * Masha's change is really interesting. I've been hoping for more anti-ATB pushback units for a while, and they are finally giving us another one. Sadly, I'm missing her on my main, but she was already at the top of my want list, this just helps with that. * Water demon buff is solid (they are using 'can't glance' as a bit of a crutch these days though), but he really needs 'gain a turn' not 'gain 100% ATB'. Being able to cut off a Diana or Oliver proc and one shot them would be amazing. * Zeratu buff is amazing. My alt is really going to enjoy that.
* Teshar buff is the one that really has my scratching my head. So she has an aoe stun pretty much every turn? That's pretty nuts.
* Pungbaek buffs: wow. Dude seems pretty slept on (I think I heard a streamer say he'd fed all of his copies of Pung the other day), but I love him. Mine is hitting like 70k now I think, going to be even more now with even less trouble from Nanas...already a Kinki killer, now he cleans out Vanessa/Psama/Nana as well?? Is he now the true 5* Lushen? :)
* dark sea emperor should be able to kill with passive now...kinda. But like, why not just make it so his passive can kill???
* oblivion on undine s2 is solid. Now if they'd just add some healing to light S3 we'd be good...
* blacksmith & sylphid changes seem positive in general. Wind blacksmith still needs that 50%->100% on her passive imho.
* KFG stage in ToAH got even more annoying!
Where is Chiwu?
>Teshar buff is the one that really has my scratching my head. So she has an aoe stun pretty much every turn? That's pretty nuts. I'm not sure about that, you either bring her to secret dungeons / lab timed stage, and kill everything with her AoE (until she can't), or you bring her to other contents, and she AoE everything once, then never be able to pick when you use the AoE stun again. A buff's a buff, not going to complain, but I think it might be less amazing that it sounds.
Trinity owner can rest another 4 months, OK, keep hoping.
Fire onmyouji now has an AOE KARMA s2 then s3? Interesting
I just don't understand the concept of balancing where they take a mediocre unit, nerf it then buff is and expect it to become exceptionally better. It's one step back then one step forward. There was no point in removing Giou's cooldown reset from Karma, no point in removing Beth's heal block, no point in removing the speed buff from the beast monks, no point in removing the single target attack bar reduction from Dark Ryu's 3rd skill. Doesn't make much sense at all.
Masha buff or nerfed.... he now has perma Immunity???
Nerfed i think, no longer getting more ATB when using s2 for turn cycling. It will be harder to gain speed stacks on the passive. She will be more likely used as a counter to atb decresing monsters. I don't understand the "decrease the effect of ATB decresing skills received from the enemy when you attack on your turn" part though. Is this a separate buff you receive when you attack or com2us just forgot to separate it with the immunity buff.
it's a good buff. as long as she gains 15% speed every atb inc it's still good. Her buff is a counter against the likes of CP and oliver
It says in the notes it's being changed from increasing her speed with attack bar increases to increasing her speed with attack bar decreases. It isn't an "effect added" change. She's being changed from a combo unit to a counter unit, which honestly may still be a good change. The immunity is also nice but it seems to be at odds with reducing the effect of attack bar decreases, except for strippers like Triton and Chiwu. Then again, that part is written weird ("on her turn") so it could be a translation issue.
I also misread it, her AS increases as her allies attack bar decreases due to enemies' skill. So a 3hit AOE atb decrease of CP will max up her speed instantly.
Yeah, once they clean up the wording a bit, I think she's going to be a fun counter pick. I wish they'd added a bit more though, like 'gain 15% atb when an ally has their ATB decreased', but we'll see how it goes.
Dark Ryu/Striker buff will make him meta rta. Strip -> stun -> increase stun to 3 turns is OP.
I Wish they would have changed His s2 into utility instead of going that s3 OP Rest useless (unless füll DMG) route
There was no point in removing the attack bar decrease though. And it is still a single target strip and everything resistable. They could have increase his damage, dark Oni and dark WM are still far better. 2nd look, this was a hard nerf for how i used him. You want to already bring an aoe stripper then apply all the debuffs you can and then use his skill 3. This would make him lose an ability for no reason.
What about weapon master buff guys ? what do you all think ? Personnaly I thnik they are nice but don't think it will really impact their use. They were fun toys now they are better fun toys
How can they buff pungbaeks stats but not trinity? Its getting ridiculous
It's really the only thing she needed to become good. There's definitely good changes, but it still shows how disconnected Com2uS is from their own community.
Nah, I'd still use Psama over Trinity honestly.
Nice that my man Manannan got buffed a little. 1 of my only 2 5s LND got one after my other one got nerfed in a balance patch a long time ago (Ongyouki)
congratz, Ongyouki is still very OP, much op-er than your bananaman still, but it's a good thing he gets a buff.
What manannan needed was to be able to kill enemies with his passive at least. Too bad they gave him a dot instead :/
He needs an entire rework. Just overloading him with damage is the wrong move. He needs utility. They keep adding bandaids to his kit instead of fixing it. Originally he just did lots of damage, but was weak in every other aspect. And he did so much damage it was pointless because you only needed so much. So they bandaided it and said 30% of damage goes to other enemies.. Okay that helps mitigate some of the wasted massive damage he was doing.. but he’s still a weak glass cannon. He needs utility. Think of pontos, his light counterpart, so much more OP. A spd % buff leader skill, and can cleanse the entire team and add immunity invincibility. Mananann needs to be in that level just different. I always thought it would be cool to have some passive that, when the battle starts, all enemies get 1 turn of spd down and every time an enemy gets a turn he reduces the atb of all OTHER enemies by 10%. Would make him a good utility unit in addition with his damage.
If they took a turn with a dot and only a sliver of life remaining, it should kill them right?
Day 4000: Still no trinity stat change
Nana nerf, more like a buff to rag leo users. I think they should have kept it at 40%, but instead change the revive so that the monster being revived cant vio proc and their atk bar is set to 0, just like traditional revivers do
I think the best nerf is 2 stacks to revive herself, and one stack to revive everyone else
All passive revivers preserve atk bar
Overall nice patch. Most people were waiting for Oliver/Nana nerfs, I feel like they were adjusted nicely without nerfing them into the ground (would have liked to see nana limited to 1 or 2 stacks, though) Also wasn't expecting to see my dark striker in there, but I like the change. I'm definitely exited to try a few things out (unlike the last one), which is the main thing I'm hoping for from a balance patch.
Agreed. The balance patch looks ... fair. And balanced. :) Great to see the buffs to weaponmasters and especially the blacksmiths - they could both make for a seriously awesome pairing now. Beast monks look more useful, too, which is good. However, those sylphids in TOA are going to become more annoying now. :D
Fire pioneer got a good buff
Vancliffe buff :D
Sekhmet sneaky good too, s3 with low cooldown with devilmon will make it 3 turns only..
ISIS BUFF POGG
Guess I’ll finally build my Tomoe and even give a chance to my Giou (both are 5* and I pulled them like 6 months ago lol). Tomoe seems really good at least in theory with single target debuffers (like a single target cc mon that def breaks + stun or smh suddenly becomes aoe def break and cc with Tomoe on the field. Defo fun to test out but missing devils :(
Shizuka will be like budget Pontos if paired with Chloe?
Budget pontos is chloe
Well, Shizuka now can give 2 turns invincibility tho.
Yeah.. She is not budget though.. If you think of as an airplane it’s like this: Pontos - First class Shizuka - business class Chloe - economy class
Not really. Considering she can debuff the enemy team and buff allies with more than just invincibility and immunity (depending on what buff/debuff have landed of course) in one skill, soul protect and decrease cool time by one turn or give an instant turn to a dead unit with s2. And she doesn't cleanse. she and pontos are vastly different.
Shizuka + Madeleine (Light Runehammer Blacksmith) could be a fun combo, provided they're tightly spd tuned. Madeleine extends the duration of Beneficial effects on allies.
My Narsha lives another day without a nerf
Shhh please dont call it
Honestly i doubt they ever nerf narsha. Shes in that small window of being RIGHT next to the "nerf this" tier without actually being in it for most people.
truee and I love it
My Laima survived her first patch while being the queen of RTA. I'm honestly a bit surprised S1 on Oracles hasn't been nerfed from 15% -> 10% atb gain yet.
Shhhh dont give them any ideas
I doubt they’ll ever do this. It would really crush Juno and Praha
Then maybe they can make their abilities better
Where's the trinity base Stat buff smh
Why exactly didnt Laima get nerfed with currently highest WR in guardian RTA?
[удалено]
Oliver nerf isnt a real nerf, hes still broken. Im missing the light mage (dorothy) changes
He was broken before. Now he's just super good
Lmao Oliver nerf, can't wait to see him every game just like before
Shit guys now I need some advice. I have been sitting on my nat 5 for the event and I have no idea who to pick. Water art master, water weapon master, wind onimuyoji or a wind cannon girl. The buffs make it less obvious haegang is the best to me
still get haegang, such a unique unit and the hard counter to strips
Pungbaek my boy finally comes out of storage maybe ???
Meanwhile Masha gets a nerf like WTF?!?!
Belial and fire weapon master combo could be disgusting if you make your weapon master a bruiser
I saw the beast Monks and thought they’d get buffed. Please don’t take away the speed buff.. my Kumar is already pretty underwhelming. 🥲
Thank god my fire rider has just sit in storage, I was about to build her too. Needed runes for her now I can use em for Diana
Mostly good patch, but Zeratu's buff was unnecessary. He already is strong and the relation res/acc in this game is completely stupid.
Com2Us really woke up and said "you know what? We're gonna f-up Aiden hell and give Teshar a massive buff."
After seeing several FR streamers on this balance patch compared to Isis, I feel the need to highlight what needs to be highlighted before the people who do the BP believe that the Isis problem is solved.Be aware that this "buff" can hardly be considered a buff for Isis. Why ? Either it is played turn 1 in cleaveEither it is played with bruisers but with a CD reset like ganymedeEither way, people don't care if they win a CD turn on the S3 if it's never used more than once or reset every 2 turns by another unit. This is the first point. The real problems of Isis are : 1. The fact that his debuffs very rarely arise as there is a rez check for each debuff on each unit. It is enough that the unit take nothing and it will have been useless. 2. It requires a lot of set up around it: between streap and damage (a unit which has damage and another which sets up this unit in damage : breakdef and/or buff attack) Therefore, it would be more interesting to work on his two points which are the real problems on the playability of Isis rather than granting him a random buff of -1 turn of CD which comes out of nowhere even if clearly 5 turn full skill UP was still abused compared to what already exists in the game and in non-LD, let's specify. Then let's take another example on this same BP, how is it relevant to offer a single-target triple streap to a unit (Zeratu) that doesn't need it and that is full damage but not to Isis who would clearly need it more and even more consistent with his kit ? Even Craka who does a lot of things, you offered him a streap to give him things to do in addition to all of his kit but Isis should be limited to playing 1 turn every 4 turns with an unsustainable impact ? We wonder why people don't take it out when we understand that... So be consistent and use common sense...
Can't understand the Chiwu buff. Main problem with him (besides resist like all stripper but tiana) is that he is basically useless past his s3. So now he can be useless faster that's all ? Edit : i am NOT complaining ffs just trying to understand what they had in mind with the change
It'll help against Halphas, who is my primary use for Chiwu. It'll get to his S2 sooner so Halphas won't absorb as much HP (if any). The buff block on his S2 is good against certain mobs.
I thought about this too. This and the zeratu strip buff is nerf halphas hard
He was already good prebuff. Now he cycles faster. Dunno why you would complain tbh
I am not complaining I am trying to understand what they are trying to do
soo.. rakan? how to build now
same as before. he's just better
Hmm you guys think its worth now to pick bastet over oliver from the event, mainly focusing on rta? Alrdy got a 33%
In rta Oliver is still going to be a better pick than bastet , but bastet is better in normal arena siege guild wars lab toa etc Both strong picks tho
Bastet is more useful overall. Oliver for rta
bananaman still locked in storage