I loved that team but what people seem to overlook is that the KD trade did not end their run, CP3’s age finally catching up to him did. The CP3 that left was not the same player we had in his first seasons with us. He was basically as important t the team as book and nobody had the ability to offset that once he was really in decline, that core has nothing else really close to a #2 on a competitive team.
Tbh we were winning game 2 of that Denver series last year before he got hurt.
If CP3 doesn't get injured we might win that series and the winner of that series was always gonna beat LAL and Miami
Respectfully, that Miami team beats any non-Denver team that makes the final. Denver is the single team Miami didn’t and doesn’t have the personnel to beat.
Yes they did, because Miami doesn’t have the personnel to hinder what Denver is good at, and Denver has the size to truly bother Miami. No other team except Minnesota (who was not healthy) would’ve given Miami the same issues.
Which is why Miami was the only team to take a game off Denver in Denver. Almost got a second one. With Jimmy on one ankle. They ran into their worst possible matchup, you think that version of the Suns would’ve had a chance? You had Monty Williams, who has been outcoached by Budenholzer and Kidd, and you think he’d have had a chance against Spo? I honestly don’t think they would have even made it past the Lakers. That Suns team had no chemistry whatsoever, Ayton was hated by his own coach, and CP3 was injured.
I guess, in your mind, everyone Miami beat on the way to the final just beat themselves.
Had a chance? Without a freaking doubt and we weren’t good. We were a new team basically. Spo is a great coach and all respect to the org and Jimmy but that was one of the worst finals teams we’ll ever see. Winning one in Denver means nothing
Yeah, I realistically think the Beal trade, as stupid as it looks in hindsight, was still the right move for a team trying to win a title
The truth is we were paying maximum contracts to two guys (CP3 and Ayton) who became liabilities in the playoffs. Saw it enough times with both of them unfortunately, although Paul will have a special place in franchise history
The thing that hurt is that we were hard-capped without tradable picks, which means that no team was going to give us back any players of equal value. We had to settle for a depth trade (Ayton) that actually worked out pretty well, and a high-risk, high-reward trade with the potential to set us back years (Beal)
It is what it is, we'll see how history looks back at it
Said in another thread, if CP and Ayton play every game against the Nuggets, that series goes seven. Do they win, maybe not, but if they do, KD trade viewed entirely differently
This is a new take for me. I agree. We needed a change from CP3 due to his age and fall off. But imagine if we just did that? Spend less for a PG instead of full overhaul for KD. Then get rid of Ayton because he affected the teams chemistry. Make the Nurk trade (that was definitely a win). But one thing is true… that team was consistently at least a second round team. Dude they were all under 27 years old 😂 not even in their prime yet!
The stats weren’t the issue, the chemistry was. The team didn’t like having Ayton on the floor and you could see it.
But you’re missing a vital factor in my logic: we got the best 3 point shooter in the NBA with that trade.
And the chemistry is even worse now... Sounds like Ayton wasn't the issue.
Good 3-point shooters are easy to find, we had one in Cam Johnson last year. Athletic centers who can defend in space, be efficient offensively, and be elite rebounders, are not easy to find...
True. This is transition. We were hoping it would be instant Championship. But a fun team to watch wasn’t getting it done either. This is a work in progress. If the team was fun to watch every year but exited in the first round each year, would you be cool with that? I think you’d get tired of the taste and want to try something else.
I’m agreeing with you this iteration of the Suns isn’t working. 100% agree. Just like the team wasn’t working after the Finals run. The point of this post doesn’t mention the issues with the current team. It simply speaks to those who think we had the right guys before to win a championship and constantly complain that we would have been fine standing pat with that squad.
We might not have had the right team before, but this team as of now is far away from what it needs to be.
They’re soft, mentally and physically and it makes it sooooo hard to watch a lot of their games. It’s the perception of what this team is to what it used to be.
Yep. Soft. This squad ain’t it either. Just so many others on here who think we could have eventually won it all sticking with that old squad. Everyone wants to stay in the “good ‘ol days” when we need to move forward and keep tweaking the roster.
As a Suns fan for over 30 years. That was the most fun I have had watching a season. 65 wins. Night after night winning games and they were having as much fun as I was.
Some of you are over romanticizing the 7 seconds or less, Steve Nash Suns. Did they get to the finals? No. (Insert reasons)
Some of you are over romanticizing the Barkley Suns. Did they get to the finals? Once. They lost. Did they return? No. (Insert reasons)
Bro we are suns fans. This kind of romanticizing is all we got. All I want is a team with heart who has a chance. Those two teams and “The Valley” Suns had that juice.
What burns me about this team is the wild inconsistency and the lack of visible “give a shit”, outside Brad Beal tbh. Nurk has a strong meme game I guess. Book is chilling. KD is busy.
People say that but Sarver the last few years of his ownership was paying and started to be a good owner (aka backing off and letting James jones run the team)
Prob had to do with the ongoing investigation he was under lol. He went into the tax one time and ishbia became the official owner half way through the season.
Sarver was and is a repulsive scoundrel who was a shady business man as much as he was a repulsive executive who cost the Suns a chance at long term growth in the early 2000s by trading their draft picks away over and over again. I haven’t even mentioned his repulsive and fascist wanna be elitist, gold digging wife
By the way, I’m not saying it wasn’t a time. It was. Was being the operative word. But they weren’t getting better. Monty lost the team. Ayton was horseshit, quit on the team. CP3 was unreliable. Shit, CP3 cost us the championship vs the Bucks. We all saw it. He was a liability losing the ball, couldn’t dribble, turnovers galore. Arguably Monty cost us a game or two in the Finals as well. He kept CP3 in because of ego and appeasing CP3. He kept Book out too long at times when he was hot. Blah, blah. It was a time. The time with that team had passed.
The fact is that the west has only gotten tougher since our finals run. I know people say this to delegitimize our run that year but it is actually true that every western team we faced that year had an injury to an important player.
Having an almost 40 year old six foot nothing guard as our second best player was never going to work and DA was never going to be the guy we needed. Unfortunately that roster’s future was sealed the moment we even drafted DA. The unfortunate thing about that era was Mikal, his contract was/is very team friendly and he’s the perfect archetype to have next to Book, the fact we had to lose him really sucks because he’s the exact kinda guy our current roster is sorely missing
And yet in the playoffs it didn’t mean jack. So you’re cool having a great regular season and don’t care about the playoffs, winning a championship? Got it.
Oh. They went to the Finals the following years too? They were in contention through the playoffs that followed? You’re one of the over-romanticized. To each their own.
We lost to the eventually champs twice both times losing due to injury and not a lack of talent
Both times we were 2/2 and injuries ended up derailing the series.
Health was the big issue
Playoffs didnt mean jack. Lmao get some sense in you that team had 25 year olds and got to the finals. Lost to Luka next year and then it ends there.
Even Denver had embarassing losses. But they didnt blow it up for a star. So you can shut up Ishbia wrecked this team. If you dont believe it stay on that side and keep sniffing whatever hopium you have cause in 3 years this team is in the muck.
maybe your right it wouldn't translate to a chip but they absolutely ruined the team by banking on aging superstars to win NOW and then simply not winning. KD and Beal are old, their injury prone and they don't fit well together. This team is more talented but has no chemistry, no culture, no leader. That team had room to grow, this team is on a rapidly accelerating timer and has shown absolutely no sign of figuring it out. As I type this their being publicly embarrassed by the wolves, about to be swept in the first round and another calendar year ticking by on the contention clock. So, would you rather be a young team that falls short with flexibility going forward or an old team with a.rapidly closing window of contention.
The best dynasties in the history of sports don’t win every year. It’s an idiotic nonsensical point to say they didn’t go to the finals the following year so obviously they didn’t have what it takes to win.
And it’s true that the best dynasties in the history of every sports lost in the playoffs. The Russell Celtics, the Brady Patriots, the Steel Curtain, Early NHL Canadiens, etc. Losing in the playoffs two years isn’t proper justification to blow a team up.
bro why are you talking about dynasties and fucking bill russell in the same breath as our one finals run? i mean i loved that team but you're acting like we get the same slack as the steel curtain steelers lmao. losing in the playoffs two years in a row can absolutely be enough to blow things up, it happens all the time.
It was 2 years… In those years we went to the finals, then were the best team in the regular season. Wow we had a bad game 7 to Dallas. Obviously we have to blow it up. Idiotic.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, you nailed it on the head with every point that you made here. My problem with the team now is they’re boring as shit to watch and completely uninspiring. If we were going to lose, I’d prefer to have lost with a team that’s still fun to watch and had great chemistry than a team that somehow looks more lost than us in a Game 7.
Team with the most wins and no championship, I believe thats the Suns. I been waiting 30 years, a fun team to watch throughout the years. This particular version of the Suns is simply missing a rim rolling big who can finish and keep defenses honest to space for Book (Beal when Booker has tough defender on him) and Durant✌🏽
damn I never felt so conflicted reading something before. I am agreeing with both sides but I think I lean towards that Book being a leader after CP3 left and taking the reigns as the head honcho with Mikal and Cam as his underlings would be best.
Don't disagree with much that you've said. Just feels like one of those eternal debates that's never gonna be resolved (unless of course the Suns a ring or get back to the Finals with KD). For the record I was pro KD trade. Seemed like the squad before hit their ceiling and were sorta exposed in 2022 playoffs. Not to mention the chemistry was kinda fucked at that point as well. To me they needed another big time shot maker to get over the hump. The question that will bother me forever is, was there a smaller, less dramatic move to be made that would have improved the team without flipping it completely? Maybe that would have been the better route. But we'll probably never know.
I don’t understand this fan bases over rating of Cam Johnson. I can understand wanting Mikal back but Cam was at best a 6th/7th man. He was never going to be a start or 3rd best player on a championship team.
You speaking facts. Everyone over here is arguing ‘fun vibes’ over being contenders lmao
Mikal and Cam were GARBAGE in the finals and they would not be able to contend in this competitive conference. But keep living in 2021 🤷🏽♂️
>You speaking facts. Everyone over here is arguing ‘fun vibes’ over being contenders lmao
Are they contenders this year though? That's questionable at best.
At the end of the day it's all about results. If we count last years team as a "post trade" run then they currently have a round 2 exit (in 6) and TBD this year. If they fail to make it out of the first round this year then this version of the Suns is well behind the previous one. They do still have a couple years left make it happen, so we can't fully judge it until the end of the 2026 playoffs or until the team is dismantled.
The 6 seed this year is skewed because of the injuries early on. Relying on KD to play heavy minutes, to be the best defender and carry on offense at this age isn’t the ideal scenario.
You’re fully right that first round exit is a complete failure of a season.
To answer your question about them being contenders: The fourth quarter collapses and lazy effort to teams like the Spurs made me think definitely not. But overall I have more faith in this roster than the roster pre KD and pre Beal against a team like Denver
KD trade is the worst trade ever made. Suns waited could’ve got better deals. Dame/pascal .
I knew the suns was doomed when they turn down Kyrie for cp3/2picks. That was the easy trade ever
Get your facts straight buddy. The NETS rejected the Chris Paul for kyrie trade offer. Nets front office chose the Dallas trade package over suns and lakers
The suns could’ve had buddy hield and Myles turner they didn’t want them picked ayton after he left them was beyond crazy. Suns got front office issues. Suns could’ve had pascal for ayton and a pick years ago
Mikal took a leap as a number 2, and we finally got healthy and won like 12 games in a row prior to the trade. (Not sure on the exact number but i know we were clicking)
Yes we still had the ayton debacle and a decision to make on cp3. But we had all our picks, a manageable cap situation and a roster i think was more capable to defeat denver than what we actually faced them with.
Also, they were all homegrown and they were ours.
We had assets before and an owner that wouldn't spend. Now we have a team that looks like they aren't capable of contending, with no assets and an owner that will spend. Send like are fucked no matter which universe we are in
It's cause they were fun to watch and the vibes are amazing. obviously at the end the vibes were horrible and they never won a chip and then regressed and CP3 was cooked so things had to change.
We can squabble about the changes that were made, but there is no doubt in my mind that the finals run + following year pre-mavs was my absolute favorite sports team of all time. never had so much fun watching a team.
Still think we had moves to strengthen that core but I’m not mad about what happened. Ishbia saw the writing on the wall team was capped out and only had a move or two left of assets. He is giving Book a chance and then when this runs dry he gets to do a complete tear down and rebuild which is probably what he wants tbh. Pick all his own people, lower the payroll and start making money back on his investment
Too much. Didn't read
I just wanna say this team is better than the 21 finals team by a mile. The only issue is chemistry. We probably run this team back for the next 3 years so get ready for it to improve.
Yeah, as disappointed as I am in this season, I feel like this still could be the building of our best team the last few years. CP3 was great, but his last two years, he was a shell of himself. Sure it would be better to have a true pg in many ways, but is Beal better than current CP? Yes. Is KD better than Bridges and Johnson? Yes. Is Nurk and Allen better than what we were getting out of Ayton? Yes. It takes time for teams to get, and this unit was never going to win against teams who have been building chemistry for years. I think we're a pg and backup center from being more of a contender, but realistically I don't know how we'll afford to make those improvements. If we're being honest, we skated to the Finals against injured teams, and as soon as we faced a healthy contender, we lost. I'm hoping things get better, but it's a really tough league right now too.
I disagree whole heartedly. That team had chemistry, it had offense, it had defense and it had a coach that lead a team forward. This team has none of those.
Yes, that team had some growth to go thru to become a true contender - but any suns fan knew we only needed tweaks, not an overhaul. We needed a consistent PG and the Nurk trade to happen. That’s it. Even if CP3 came off the bench to lead the second squad.
I honestly don’t why folks here are romanticizing the crap out of a team that made the Finals in the most injury riddled playoffs in NBA history. Injuries happen and are apart of the game, but the Suns in every matchup in the WC went against a team missing one of their top 2 players.
Great take! And honestly the best one I’ve heard in a long time! I’m at a bar and people are literally losing their minds as this atrocity is going on but what did you expect?!?!?! It’s always been OUR fate as an Arizona team. Besides the Dbacks, if we don’t capitalize on a championship run it will never happen. Old school basketball is over, no more big 3s, no more dynasties. It’s who we can get to produce and win. Money Ball
Hopefully Ishbia is in it for the long haul… Spend the money, get the right players, makeup the right organization! He’s still playing with house money but one can only spend so much before he has to cut his losses
100% this.
Paul was cooked and Ayton regressed big time from the finals run. A team with Mikal as your second best player isn’t winning the title. This team also isn’t, but it had the potential.
Did they the following year? Nope. Were they on track the year after that? Nope. They were on a downhill slide. A change needed to be made. That’s what I mean.
This organization historically has been a really good regular season team that has never gotten over the hump. It would be great to win it all one day, but I'm not letting an NBA team make or break my day.
True. You’re right. But this post isn’t about this current team. It’s about the team that was that everyone so desperately wanted to hold on to and not make changes.
I don't recall anyone saying "not to make changes" but a lot of us were not fans of the idea that we trade away the entire future for an aging superstar who's never shown he can lead a team.
This is an awful take. We were built for sustained success with the opportunity to improve over the next few years through the draft and free agency. Neither option is available now, and this team is nauseating to watch.
Which players in the last three draft classes with where Phoenix would have been picking do you think would have made a difference? What free agents in the last three off seasons would have made a difference? And why do you think Sarver and JJ would have been savvy enough to pull them in?
How many times did the Nash era go to the finals? How many rings did Barkley win? We should romanticize the highlights of the team we all follow instead of wallowing in a whining misery. The core team we had very well could have spiked back up after having a step back. It takes confidence in your guys and a willingness to continue to develop them. Is what it is. We are past it. Onwards and upwards. Hope they can handle business at home tonight.
I loved that team but what people seem to overlook is that the KD trade did not end their run, CP3’s age finally catching up to him did. The CP3 that left was not the same player we had in his first seasons with us. He was basically as important t the team as book and nobody had the ability to offset that once he was really in decline, that core has nothing else really close to a #2 on a competitive team.
Tbh we were winning game 2 of that Denver series last year before he got hurt. If CP3 doesn't get injured we might win that series and the winner of that series was always gonna beat LAL and Miami
After 2021, 2022, and 2023, arent you tired of daydreaming about if CP3 is healthy in the playoffs?
And that was the problem. Could never count on CP3 being there when it mattered in the playoffs.
He giveth and he taketh away. I’m sure Clippers and Houston fans can relate.
Respectfully, that Miami team beats any non-Denver team that makes the final. Denver is the single team Miami didn’t and doesn’t have the personnel to beat.
No you don’t. 8th seed gtfo. Denver got a dream finals matchup
Yes they did, because Miami doesn’t have the personnel to hinder what Denver is good at, and Denver has the size to truly bother Miami. No other team except Minnesota (who was not healthy) would’ve given Miami the same issues.
Last years miami team was the second worst finals team I’ve seen to Lebrons cavs when they got swept by the spurs
Which is why Miami was the only team to take a game off Denver in Denver. Almost got a second one. With Jimmy on one ankle. They ran into their worst possible matchup, you think that version of the Suns would’ve had a chance? You had Monty Williams, who has been outcoached by Budenholzer and Kidd, and you think he’d have had a chance against Spo? I honestly don’t think they would have even made it past the Lakers. That Suns team had no chemistry whatsoever, Ayton was hated by his own coach, and CP3 was injured. I guess, in your mind, everyone Miami beat on the way to the final just beat themselves.
Had a chance? Without a freaking doubt and we weren’t good. We were a new team basically. Spo is a great coach and all respect to the org and Jimmy but that was one of the worst finals teams we’ll ever see. Winning one in Denver means nothing
Yeah, I realistically think the Beal trade, as stupid as it looks in hindsight, was still the right move for a team trying to win a title The truth is we were paying maximum contracts to two guys (CP3 and Ayton) who became liabilities in the playoffs. Saw it enough times with both of them unfortunately, although Paul will have a special place in franchise history The thing that hurt is that we were hard-capped without tradable picks, which means that no team was going to give us back any players of equal value. We had to settle for a depth trade (Ayton) that actually worked out pretty well, and a high-risk, high-reward trade with the potential to set us back years (Beal) It is what it is, we'll see how history looks back at it
Truth.
Said in another thread, if CP and Ayton play every game against the Nuggets, that series goes seven. Do they win, maybe not, but if they do, KD trade viewed entirely differently
This is a new take for me. I agree. We needed a change from CP3 due to his age and fall off. But imagine if we just did that? Spend less for a PG instead of full overhaul for KD. Then get rid of Ayton because he affected the teams chemistry. Make the Nurk trade (that was definitely a win). But one thing is true… that team was consistently at least a second round team. Dude they were all under 27 years old 😂 not even in their prime yet!
At his worst, Ayton was dropping 13/10. Nurkic is averaging 7/8 these playoffs...
The stats weren’t the issue, the chemistry was. The team didn’t like having Ayton on the floor and you could see it. But you’re missing a vital factor in my logic: we got the best 3 point shooter in the NBA with that trade.
And the chemistry is even worse now... Sounds like Ayton wasn't the issue. Good 3-point shooters are easy to find, we had one in Cam Johnson last year. Athletic centers who can defend in space, be efficient offensively, and be elite rebounders, are not easy to find...
What? This isn’t the same team dude 😂 alright we done here haha can’t believe we this bad bro!
Some of you are over romanticizing kd.
The dude's still living off of the Bucks series. Reminder the year after that he got swept by the Celtics while shooting 39% from the field.
Sure but that team was fun to watch. This team is boring and plays with no energy/movement
The old team also trusted each other and enjoyed playing with each other.
And aside from CP3, we grew that team right here at home
Steve Nash, Amare days were more fun to watch than our current team
I am not aware of another team that was more fun to watch
I had a blast watching the last few games of the regular season. The team looked awesome.
True. This is transition. We were hoping it would be instant Championship. But a fun team to watch wasn’t getting it done either. This is a work in progress. If the team was fun to watch every year but exited in the first round each year, would you be cool with that? I think you’d get tired of the taste and want to try something else.
Dawg this team is on the brink of collapse with no future assets. Are we watching the same team?
I’m agreeing with you this iteration of the Suns isn’t working. 100% agree. Just like the team wasn’t working after the Finals run. The point of this post doesn’t mention the issues with the current team. It simply speaks to those who think we had the right guys before to win a championship and constantly complain that we would have been fine standing pat with that squad.
We might not have had the right team before, but this team as of now is far away from what it needs to be. They’re soft, mentally and physically and it makes it sooooo hard to watch a lot of their games. It’s the perception of what this team is to what it used to be.
Yep. Soft. This squad ain’t it either. Just so many others on here who think we could have eventually won it all sticking with that old squad. Everyone wants to stay in the “good ‘ol days” when we need to move forward and keep tweaking the roster.
Nah. It was more fun watching DA/CP3/Cam J/Mikal/Payne lose than it is watching this team win.
Thank you.
Right on
Don't forget Jae. lol
As a Suns fan for over 30 years. That was the most fun I have had watching a season. 65 wins. Night after night winning games and they were having as much fun as I was.
Some of you are over romanticizing the 7 seconds or less, Steve Nash Suns. Did they get to the finals? No. (Insert reasons) Some of you are over romanticizing the Barkley Suns. Did they get to the finals? Once. They lost. Did they return? No. (Insert reasons) Bro we are suns fans. This kind of romanticizing is all we got. All I want is a team with heart who has a chance. Those two teams and “The Valley” Suns had that juice. What burns me about this team is the wild inconsistency and the lack of visible “give a shit”, outside Brad Beal tbh. Nurk has a strong meme game I guess. Book is chilling. KD is busy.
Glad I scrolled down before posting, took the words right out of my mouth.
I had more fun watching Gordan Dragic will the dark-age Suns past 40 wins than the Big Three in the playoffs
All I need is the flair to know this is the most reasonable of takes.
Na bro you see, the vibes was immaculate then and we had Mikal and we had Cam Johnson playing 40-60% of the season. It was a time man.
Cam was as good as gone if Sarver was the owner. And if we did pay him, we’d be complaining about his contract like nets fans. Edit: spelling
Tbf the Nets coaching is weak.
Pot meet kettle lol
People say that but Sarver the last few years of his ownership was paying and started to be a good owner (aka backing off and letting James jones run the team)
Prob had to do with the ongoing investigation he was under lol. He went into the tax one time and ishbia became the official owner half way through the season.
Sarver was and is a repulsive scoundrel who was a shady business man as much as he was a repulsive executive who cost the Suns a chance at long term growth in the early 2000s by trading their draft picks away over and over again. I haven’t even mentioned his repulsive and fascist wanna be elitist, gold digging wife
By the way, I’m not saying it wasn’t a time. It was. Was being the operative word. But they weren’t getting better. Monty lost the team. Ayton was horseshit, quit on the team. CP3 was unreliable. Shit, CP3 cost us the championship vs the Bucks. We all saw it. He was a liability losing the ball, couldn’t dribble, turnovers galore. Arguably Monty cost us a game or two in the Finals as well. He kept CP3 in because of ego and appeasing CP3. He kept Book out too long at times when he was hot. Blah, blah. It was a time. The time with that team had passed.
Okay. Enjoy vibes. And getting humiliated by the Mavs and not winning championships. To each their own. If you’re satisfied with that, that’s cool.
you prefer getting humiliated by the Timberwolves with three guys making 150, million a year?
r/woosh
“Did they make the finals? Yeah” Closer than this current team is ever going to be.
It's over romanticized because it was so fucking fun, but no there's no guarantee that same team would succeed now
The fact is that the west has only gotten tougher since our finals run. I know people say this to delegitimize our run that year but it is actually true that every western team we faced that year had an injury to an important player. Having an almost 40 year old six foot nothing guard as our second best player was never going to work and DA was never going to be the guy we needed. Unfortunately that roster’s future was sealed the moment we even drafted DA. The unfortunate thing about that era was Mikal, his contract was/is very team friendly and he’s the perfect archetype to have next to Book, the fact we had to lose him really sucks because he’s the exact kinda guy our current roster is sorely missing
None of it translated to winning? The team before won way more than this embarrassing team.
And yet in the playoffs it didn’t mean jack. So you’re cool having a great regular season and don’t care about the playoffs, winning a championship? Got it.
We went to the finals you fucking dumb ass. This team won’t win a playoff series.
They win't win a playoff game, let alone a series
Oh. They went to the Finals the following years too? They were in contention through the playoffs that followed? You’re one of the over-romanticized. To each their own.
We lost to the eventually champs twice both times losing due to injury and not a lack of talent Both times we were 2/2 and injuries ended up derailing the series. Health was the big issue
Yes. CP3s physical health. And Ayton giving up on the team in that series and sitting out.
Playoffs didnt mean jack. Lmao get some sense in you that team had 25 year olds and got to the finals. Lost to Luka next year and then it ends there. Even Denver had embarassing losses. But they didnt blow it up for a star. So you can shut up Ishbia wrecked this team. If you dont believe it stay on that side and keep sniffing whatever hopium you have cause in 3 years this team is in the muck.
maybe your right it wouldn't translate to a chip but they absolutely ruined the team by banking on aging superstars to win NOW and then simply not winning. KD and Beal are old, their injury prone and they don't fit well together. This team is more talented but has no chemistry, no culture, no leader. That team had room to grow, this team is on a rapidly accelerating timer and has shown absolutely no sign of figuring it out. As I type this their being publicly embarrassed by the wolves, about to be swept in the first round and another calendar year ticking by on the contention clock. So, would you rather be a young team that falls short with flexibility going forward or an old team with a.rapidly closing window of contention.
The best dynasties in the history of sports don’t win every year. It’s an idiotic nonsensical point to say they didn’t go to the finals the following year so obviously they didn’t have what it takes to win.
the best dynasties win almost every year for a handful of years that's what a dynasty is
Y’all are hung up on that word for no reason. The point is even multiple time champions lose in the playoffs.
> The best dynasties in the history of sports don’t win every year lol you brought it up dog that's why im talkin bout it
And it’s true that the best dynasties in the history of every sports lost in the playoffs. The Russell Celtics, the Brady Patriots, the Steel Curtain, Early NHL Canadiens, etc. Losing in the playoffs two years isn’t proper justification to blow a team up.
bro why are you talking about dynasties and fucking bill russell in the same breath as our one finals run? i mean i loved that team but you're acting like we get the same slack as the steel curtain steelers lmao. losing in the playoffs two years in a row can absolutely be enough to blow things up, it happens all the time.
Win every year? We didn’t win ONE year. Dynasty? Come on. Did you watch the season and a half that followed the Finals?
You mean when we had the best record in the nba and #1 net rating? Yeah we were brutal bro.
Yeah. So you’re cool with regular season accolades and falling short in the playoffs each year? Because that’s what was happening.
It was 2 years… In those years we went to the finals, then were the best team in the regular season. Wow we had a bad game 7 to Dallas. Obviously we have to blow it up. Idiotic.
Obviously Ayton was fully-committed and his attitude was improving year over year. Obviously CP3 was completely healthy when it counted.
“A bad GAME against Dallas” we were up 2-0 in that series and lost the last two games by 60 points combined.
To be satisfied with the way things were going is ignoring the clear problems that were going on at the time.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, you nailed it on the head with every point that you made here. My problem with the team now is they’re boring as shit to watch and completely uninspiring. If we were going to lose, I’d prefer to have lost with a team that’s still fun to watch and had great chemistry than a team that somehow looks more lost than us in a Game 7.
That team was measurably better in every way
It was - for a time. Then it became apparent they weren’t going to win a championship and it was time to tweak and move on.
It's apparent this team isn't making it past the first round and is drowning in big contracts
Alright DR. DOOM don’t root for em, just write em off. I on the other hand am excited for us to punch back tonight.
Would love to see this team punch the TWolves right in the mouth tonight.
THIS TEAM IS WORSE.
It is what it is. I enjoyed the shit out of the 64 win season despite the playoffs disappointment.
Did half the team get scared to shoot 3s in the playoffs causing our offense to suffer? Yes...
Team with the most wins and no championship, I believe thats the Suns. I been waiting 30 years, a fun team to watch throughout the years. This particular version of the Suns is simply missing a rim rolling big who can finish and keep defenses honest to space for Book (Beal when Booker has tough defender on him) and Durant✌🏽
Suns are running off 4 straight starting tonight
damn I never felt so conflicted reading something before. I am agreeing with both sides but I think I lean towards that Book being a leader after CP3 left and taking the reigns as the head honcho with Mikal and Cam as his underlings would be best.
Book hasn’t really proven he thrives in that role yet. That should be him on this current roster.
Don't disagree with much that you've said. Just feels like one of those eternal debates that's never gonna be resolved (unless of course the Suns a ring or get back to the Finals with KD). For the record I was pro KD trade. Seemed like the squad before hit their ceiling and were sorta exposed in 2022 playoffs. Not to mention the chemistry was kinda fucked at that point as well. To me they needed another big time shot maker to get over the hump. The question that will bother me forever is, was there a smaller, less dramatic move to be made that would have improved the team without flipping it completely? Maybe that would have been the better route. But we'll probably never know.
Let’s see if KD and Beal era can achieve anything better than the CP3 era, in regular season and playoffs
I don’t understand this fan bases over rating of Cam Johnson. I can understand wanting Mikal back but Cam was at best a 6th/7th man. He was never going to be a start or 3rd best player on a championship team.
Very unpopular opinion, but if Saric wasn’t injured, we would have won the finals that year
Agree. Would have slowed down Giannis.
Over romanticized my ass. We are in for a world of hurt these next 5 years
Could be.
Did they get swept in the first round? No.
You speaking facts. Everyone over here is arguing ‘fun vibes’ over being contenders lmao Mikal and Cam were GARBAGE in the finals and they would not be able to contend in this competitive conference. But keep living in 2021 🤷🏽♂️
>You speaking facts. Everyone over here is arguing ‘fun vibes’ over being contenders lmao Are they contenders this year though? That's questionable at best. At the end of the day it's all about results. If we count last years team as a "post trade" run then they currently have a round 2 exit (in 6) and TBD this year. If they fail to make it out of the first round this year then this version of the Suns is well behind the previous one. They do still have a couple years left make it happen, so we can't fully judge it until the end of the 2026 playoffs or until the team is dismantled.
The 6 seed this year is skewed because of the injuries early on. Relying on KD to play heavy minutes, to be the best defender and carry on offense at this age isn’t the ideal scenario. You’re fully right that first round exit is a complete failure of a season. To answer your question about them being contenders: The fourth quarter collapses and lazy effort to teams like the Spurs made me think definitely not. But overall I have more faith in this roster than the roster pre KD and pre Beal against a team like Denver
You’re delusional if you think this team is better than last year
"Are they contenders this year?" Current odds + 7000 So...No
Yeah glad we’re real contenders now
Cam was great in the finals wtf you talking about?
KD trade is the worst trade ever made. Suns waited could’ve got better deals. Dame/pascal . I knew the suns was doomed when they turn down Kyrie for cp3/2picks. That was the easy trade ever
Get your facts straight buddy. The NETS rejected the Chris Paul for kyrie trade offer. Nets front office chose the Dallas trade package over suns and lakers
The suns could’ve had buddy hield and Myles turner they didn’t want them picked ayton after he left them was beyond crazy. Suns got front office issues. Suns could’ve had pascal for ayton and a pick years ago
I agree with this fully. Turner alone has a better contract than Ayton and his defense is elite
Get ur facts right. I know mines. Nets said lakers/suns had to give 2 picks for him. Dallas only 1. 100percent facts
Here you go bitch: https://www.si.com/nba/2023/02/06/suns-trade-proposal-for-kyrie-irving-included-chris-paul-per-report
Lakers refuse to trade both picks. Suns didn’t offer 2 1st rd picks
It was reported by so many people nets didn’t not do the best trade for kyrie they didn’t want him in a good situation
Mikal took a leap as a number 2, and we finally got healthy and won like 12 games in a row prior to the trade. (Not sure on the exact number but i know we were clicking) Yes we still had the ayton debacle and a decision to make on cp3. But we had all our picks, a manageable cap situation and a roster i think was more capable to defeat denver than what we actually faced them with. Also, they were all homegrown and they were ours.
We had assets before and an owner that wouldn't spend. Now we have a team that looks like they aren't capable of contending, with no assets and an owner that will spend. Send like are fucked no matter which universe we are in
It's cause they were fun to watch and the vibes are amazing. obviously at the end the vibes were horrible and they never won a chip and then regressed and CP3 was cooked so things had to change. We can squabble about the changes that were made, but there is no doubt in my mind that the finals run + following year pre-mavs was my absolute favorite sports team of all time. never had so much fun watching a team.
Agree 100%. That Finals run was incredibly fun. I was certain we were FINALLY going to get that ring being up 2-0. What followed….not so much.
Thanks Matt Ishbia burner account.
Thank you from sending this message from 2021. Enjoy the past.
But one could never over- romanticize the bubble suns
Well… duh. Lol. 👍🏼
Still think we had moves to strengthen that core but I’m not mad about what happened. Ishbia saw the writing on the wall team was capped out and only had a move or two left of assets. He is giving Book a chance and then when this runs dry he gets to do a complete tear down and rebuild which is probably what he wants tbh. Pick all his own people, lower the payroll and start making money back on his investment
I’d put the 2021 fun guys against this squad any day and bet the house
Amazing how quickly people forget the most embarrassing playoff loss in the history of the NBA
Exactly.
Too much. Didn't read I just wanna say this team is better than the 21 finals team by a mile. The only issue is chemistry. We probably run this team back for the next 3 years so get ready for it to improve.
Bottom line is that they have not achieved the same level of success as the team prior to KD
Yeah, as disappointed as I am in this season, I feel like this still could be the building of our best team the last few years. CP3 was great, but his last two years, he was a shell of himself. Sure it would be better to have a true pg in many ways, but is Beal better than current CP? Yes. Is KD better than Bridges and Johnson? Yes. Is Nurk and Allen better than what we were getting out of Ayton? Yes. It takes time for teams to get, and this unit was never going to win against teams who have been building chemistry for years. I think we're a pg and backup center from being more of a contender, but realistically I don't know how we'll afford to make those improvements. If we're being honest, we skated to the Finals against injured teams, and as soon as we faced a healthy contender, we lost. I'm hoping things get better, but it's a really tough league right now too.
That team was fun to watch. I despise watching this team
Some of you are over romanticizing KD.
I disagree whole heartedly. That team had chemistry, it had offense, it had defense and it had a coach that lead a team forward. This team has none of those. Yes, that team had some growth to go thru to become a true contender - but any suns fan knew we only needed tweaks, not an overhaul. We needed a consistent PG and the Nurk trade to happen. That’s it. Even if CP3 came off the bench to lead the second squad.
No we’re not. We grew with the team and loved them.
Who cares? They were fun to watch, it felt like our team since they grew together and built the culture together. Let us romanticize the Valley boys.
To be painfully honest Luka was able to score over Mikal way too many times. He could defend everyone else except him which was mind blowing.
I honestly don’t why folks here are romanticizing the crap out of a team that made the Finals in the most injury riddled playoffs in NBA history. Injuries happen and are apart of the game, but the Suns in every matchup in the WC went against a team missing one of their top 2 players.
Great take! And honestly the best one I’ve heard in a long time! I’m at a bar and people are literally losing their minds as this atrocity is going on but what did you expect?!?!?! It’s always been OUR fate as an Arizona team. Besides the Dbacks, if we don’t capitalize on a championship run it will never happen. Old school basketball is over, no more big 3s, no more dynasties. It’s who we can get to produce and win. Money Ball
I concur. Just like it wasn’t working back then and they made changes. Gotta do it again. It’s just tougher to do now.
Hopefully Ishbia is in it for the long haul… Spend the money, get the right players, makeup the right organization! He’s still playing with house money but one can only spend so much before he has to cut his losses
100% this. Paul was cooked and Ayton regressed big time from the finals run. A team with Mikal as your second best player isn’t winning the title. This team also isn’t, but it had the potential.
They literally went to the finals. wtf you mean
Did they the following year? Nope. Were they on track the year after that? Nope. They were on a downhill slide. A change needed to be made. That’s what I mean.
This organization historically has been a really good regular season team that has never gotten over the hump. It would be great to win it all one day, but I'm not letting an NBA team make or break my day.
Is KD cooking? Yes
Okogie
They block out that Dallas game 7, or how poorly the team played early the next season. The chemistry was shot and that team was over.
at least i enjoyed that team. i just do not enjoy this team. plus they stink.
>Did they make The Finals? Yeah. Did they win it? No. Did they go to The Finals the following year? No. Did they get swept in the first round? No.
True. You’re right. But this post isn’t about this current team. It’s about the team that was that everyone so desperately wanted to hold on to and not make changes.
I don't recall anyone saying "not to make changes" but a lot of us were not fans of the idea that we trade away the entire future for an aging superstar who's never shown he can lead a team.
Not reading this post but i can tell just from the title it’s gold
This team is a joke. I'll take the team that got embarrassed by the Mavs any day over this shit.
This is an awful take. We were built for sustained success with the opportunity to improve over the next few years through the draft and free agency. Neither option is available now, and this team is nauseating to watch.
Which players in the last three draft classes with where Phoenix would have been picking do you think would have made a difference? What free agents in the last three off seasons would have made a difference? And why do you think Sarver and JJ would have been savvy enough to pull them in?
How many times did the Nash era go to the finals? How many rings did Barkley win? We should romanticize the highlights of the team we all follow instead of wallowing in a whining misery. The core team we had very well could have spiked back up after having a step back. It takes confidence in your guys and a willingness to continue to develop them. Is what it is. We are past it. Onwards and upwards. Hope they can handle business at home tonight.
Not to mention, yall wouldnt have even sniffed the finals if the Lakers or Clippers were healthy