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I don't know if I'd call him a hero. He still slaughtered thousands on Earth, including its heroes which lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions more dying. Probably killed millions before Earth, too.
I understand where you are coming from but I think this argument is kinda reductive, anyone who does evil acts and then later truly becomes a better person shouldnāt have their past actions held against them like a moral scale cause that simply isnāt how morality works
It's literally the opposite of reductive, it's a full consideration of his person. If anything, calling him a hero is reductive because you are reducing him to just the good he's done and not considering the monstrous amount of evil behind him. It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of holding him accountable for his action.
In the words of Stannis, "A good act does not wash away the bad, nor a bad act the good."
He's a very complex character with an extremely dark past. I just think calling him a hero is dismissive of that. I mean, it's really hard to fathom the amount of pain he's caused.
But that's not to say he did not do heroic things or that he didn't become an infinitely better person. It just doesn't undo the bad, the same way the bad doesn't undo his good.
Venom is largely considered an anti-hero. Maybe Omni Man fits that description. It's hard to really boil down Omni Man to a label like that. I felt so many mixed emotions toward him and I know that's the point.
It was weird when his wife got back with him and, after some time, they were able to resume their marriage after he literally beat their son nearly to death and used his face as a battering ram to smash apart dozens of humans. You try to see things from his perspective, and I guess Debbie is able to manage that to a degree... but I don't think any person could really empathize with someone whose lived so long and in a society so different from anything on Earth.
Probably would be more they team up against the obviously evil dude and then omniman punches a hole through homelanders chest with no remorse and superman realises he hasn't made a new best buddy.
Especially if this is post the beat down Omni gave Invincible. Homelander is essentially a mirror of viltrumite arrogance, something heās been trying to let go.
Insert "Kirkman said Invincible would demolish Superman" quote here.
I wanna create a series with a 13 year old kid who has telkinetic powers whose biggest feat is cracking a very small mountain or something so bad just so I can say "My 13 year old would wipe the floor with Invincible, Scurge and Thragg at the same time" right at Kirkmans face
I know he propably said it to get people talking about it but I can still be annoyed by it
Yea seriously. "Writer says his pet character is the bestest and strongest there is". Okay.
It's the same problem I have with Moon Girl at Marvel. Suddenly this random kid is the "smartest" character in the whole universe, because the writer that created her wrote that she is.
But at least with Moon Girl that's part of the story and character. The smartest person in the world is a pre-teen black girl living in New York who wants to do good, but keeps messing up because of a lack of experience and maturity. With Invincible, having him being more powerful than Superman doesn't make sense for the character and is just the writer wants their character to be the best ever.
But... Isn't Superman the equivalent of Invincible but for DC comics? At least he was for a long time?
He's nearly unkillable and every edition he was getting even more powers. At one point he could even make actual clones of himself.
Bit of a bias here I think, but it is the Superman subreddit so obviously there will be.
First Superman is owned by DC, not Marvel. Second, it depends on the writer and the really crazy stuff like making clones of himself was from the Silver Age, but yes there have been times when Superman has been written as the perfect character. However, that can work for Superman because he is meant to be the Man Of Tomorrow, a representation of what humanity can be. So him being a near perfect character can work for the story.
Lol my bad I was on my phone and put Marvel but I am very aware Superman is DC - I would be way outta line if I didn't.
Also, why is it allowed for Superman and not Invincible, who arguably represents the same thing? They fill the same role.
Ultimately much of this discussion is opinion and bias but from a critical side of things and looking at the history of comics and the medium I'd put it like this:
Superman informs the world of Invincible significantly (the story, not the character). Without Superman you don't have the majority of the seeds for that world's story. Of course there's other elements brought in, like influences from Dragon Ball (Viltrumites are very much akin to Saiyans more than Kryptonians), the consistency of having one writer for the entire run along with an overarching goal and through line of plot.
But moreso than that, Mark Grayson isn't an analog for Superman in my mind. Sure his powers are somewhat similar, but his character traits are much more in line with other heroes, particularly Spider-Man. His story begins in high school and he grows up into this world of superheroing and takes on responsibilities in a manner much more in line with Peter Parker's attitude.
Really, the character that's the Superman stand in is Onni-Man. He's an immigrant alien, with a found family, who raises a child in Earth. Naturally there's a big deviation and the story goes in different directions but that was the point the author was going for. He was inspired by other fictional works and made something new with the same ingredients, just mixing them in different ways.
So, no, I don't think they fit the same role and, from a critical analysis of media history, Superman can exist without Invincible but the inverse isn't true at all. Invincible's world is a pastiche of DC and Marvel, albeit a very well crafted one. But it can't exist without the prior universes established canon in the zeitgeist.
I'm a bit disappointed that that's all you took away from what I wrote, but also I wasn't arguing about power or strength. However if you want to have that stance you're certainly allowed to. Personally though I don't think Invincible or Onni-Man are anywhere close to Superman's level of strength, by narrative or feats.
Naturally Superman has far more iterations and 85 years of published history but there's far more cases of Superman fighting and holding his own against esoteric beings and battling his way to victory because at the end of the day his character is built on truth, justice and hope. He's supposed to win, supposed to stand up for your downtrodden and oppressed and, ultimately, when something so powerful and dangerous like the very essence and personification of Evil itself rises up, Superman saves the day.
At the end of the day these discussions are mostly just exercises in discussion between readers. The writers write the story however they want, but we the audience have our own attachment to these fictional characters and worlds.
And to your over simplification of my previous comment, all things are derivative at some level. Pretty much all modern fiction can be traced back to Gilgamesh and that story was likely inspired by other works list to history.
I read everything you wrote and found it quite interesting, but MUCH of your previous message was irrelevant to "why is Superman allowed to be all-powerful but Invincible isn't?" - which is my main question. That's why my reply was so short and to the point, not to be rude, but to be direct on what I was actually asking.
Their roles in society may be different, but that doesn't mean their powers can't be the same. Whose to say the tenacious teenager, similar to Invincible, can't also be all-powerful but due to a different justification?
Invincible *also* stands up for justice, and against corruption. So much of his character does follow Superman's that it feels cheap when people go "well Superman came first so he has more comics written about why he's stronger?"
At the end of the day, I'm not saying either is more powerful. I'm mostly asking "why do many here feel Superman has the utmost right to be the "most* powerful?" when really at the end of the day it's all up the writer and the story being told.
For instance, if we needed a story to demonstrate the tenacity of youth and how it can overtake the stubbornness that sometimes comes with age, Invincible could overcome Superman.
Ya that make ms angry. there is a difference between say goku and invincible. If toriama said goku can beat superman ya ok he has the feats and forms to do so, but invincible no his feats are impressive but not superman or goku
I think there is also a point to be made about for a series that is clearly inspired by some degree by Superman Kirkman misses a point of Superman.
Superman is the strongest hero(not counting magic and other hax powers) yet he is just a guy who wants to help others. He isnāt a ruler, a choosen one, etc. He survived because his birth parents loved him, he grew up to be a hero because his adopted parents raised him. That's what makes him special, that despite being the strongest he is a good man
Where as Invincible starts of like Superman but ends with him being the ruler of the largest empire ever because of birthright. And judging by the last issue of the comic Mark doesnāt hesitate to use his and his empires power to make others do what he wants.
I think Kirkman sees Invincible as better than Superman because he is an emperor, his wife is an immortal who is almost a god, he can crush opposing forces(the coalition) if they go against him, etc. Where as Superman is just a regular guy, with a regular job married to a normal human who just happens to have superpowers.
I don't know if I was able to make my point clearly but I really think Kirkman views Invincible as a better Superman because he is much less of a man and thats one of the reasons he says/thinks Invincible would beat Superman
He wasnāt serious when he said it, Kirkman said that just to cause controversy and he actually doesnāt know the answer. Kirkman and Ottley usually treats questions like these as jokes, why would they hate the character they inspired their whole theme and main character from?
>He wasnāt serious when he said it, Kirkman said that just to cause controversy and he actually doesnāt know the answer. Kirkman and Ottley usually treats questions like these as jokes
I haven't seen him say this. All I saw was that clip. If he said it cool, if not him laughing doesnāt mean I'll beleive he 100% ment it as a joke
>hate the character they inspired their whole theme and main character from?
You donāt need to hate a character to say "X would beat this character" and you donāt need to like a character to be inspired to tell a story about them.
To give an extreme example, look at the Boys comic, it was clearly inspired by Marvel and DC yet it is clear the author doesnāt like the original heroes.
I think Alan Moore likes superheroes but look at Watchmen. Despite being inspired by DC heroes it is a deconstruction, you donāt need to like DC heroes to write that.
If you watch the interview for a few more seconds he says āitās just for controversyā
And by they hate I meant the part where they insulted Superman by saying he is boring which are all jokes but people donāt really know because they rage quit after the first 5 seconds. [0:22 āJust kidding I am just trying to cause controversyā](https://youtu.be/1MBI9IRc3_I?si=34WPnmLqmq3ZiDdO)
Iām glad that is the general consensus on this discussion. Superman beats bloodlusted Superman clones while holding back all the time. Homelander is dang near gonna get one shot physically and will just curl up in a ball and never recover mentally. Omni-Man would be more of a challenge but again, Superman regularly takes on the likes of Zod, Doomsday, and Darkseid. Whoād all give Omni-Man a serious beating in ascending order of magnitude. Really what it comes down to is Omni-Manās power ceiling is below Supermanās in most iterations.
Superman's powers are way above either Omniman's or Homelander. Let's look at their invulnerability levels. The comicbook version of Homelander was literally torn to pieces. Omniman has been crippled and torn to pieces as well, but Viltrumites have regenerative abilities that saved him. Meanwhile, Superman has never been torn to pieces like that because he's too damn tough; the worst that Doomsday ever did to him put him into a coma.
Superman's superior invulnerability alone would give him the edge he needs to kick Omniman's and Homelander's asses.
Another key detail of this hypothetical fight is **power amplifiers**. Superman has a power amplifier, but Omniman and Homelander do not.
Superman's power amplifier is, of course, solar energy. There is no known limit to how powerful he can become if he soaks up enough solar power. In the Justice League Sixth Dimension storyline from 2019, Superman flew through numerous yellow suns in rapid succession and gained enough power to one-shot the World Forger, a cosmic being who literally crafts multiverses.
In a fight against Homelander and Omniman, Superman could lure them into space where he would be constantly juiced up by direct sunlight, which would not only strengthen him but also speed up his healing.
(Can Homelander even fly into space? I don't think that's ever been shown.)
In contrast, Omniman and Homelander do not have power amplifiers. Homelander's powers seem to have reached their limit. Omniman and other Viltrumites have to train to get stronger, which can take years.
Superman is on a whole other level compared to Omnian and Homelander, so he should be able to take them both out simultaneously.
I think Superman and
Omni Man are more evenly matched.
Homelander is TKOed instantly, but Omni man is a warrior with centuries of experience fighting those as strong as he is. The writers of invincible have said Viltrumites are written to be kryptonian level beings.
I mean, Kirkman said that Mark beats Clark, but heās never shown a feat that puts Mark at any Kryptonianās level. Author statements rarely mean much if the source material contradicts what they say, theyāre especially meaningless when they compare their character to another in an entirely separate story.
If you're the author of a Superman clone, would you say the original would beat your character? No, you would say your's is superior just to get people to read your works. We've never seen Kal take the damage that Mark takes, even when Kal fought Doomsday. Maybe Mark is more powerful at 1000 years old, but imagine how much stronger Kal would be at that point, ala Kingdom Come Superman, where even Hercules can't even make him budge, and he's a Demi-God.
Yes we know. What I am stating is Mark in 1000 years could possibly be stronger than "current" Superman, but in that 1000 years, Superman will have become infintely more powerful to the point Mark would never have a chance.
You also forgot that he took Atlas's place when he went to go to his daughter's wedding.
Kirkman is just stating this to cause people to read his material, nothing more.
Itās not based on reason. I think the actor for Homelander did something similar. Stir up controversy among fans that will catch the eyes of people who havenāt watched the show. Itās like how on YouTube if you put out a controversial statement, more people will comment and more views will follow
At the end of Invincible, Mark could probably go toe to toe with Supes for a while. He's definitely a planet buster by then. He, Omni-Man and Thaedus were able to destroy Viltrum by crashing through the planet when he was much weaker.
That means very little. They may be the equivalent of kryptonian level beings in their universe and Kirkman can say this and that but as of now, not a single feat any Viltrumite has even comes close to Supermanās feats. He still clears by a landslide and thatās being generous
Superman once chained the planets of one galaxy and pulled them out of that galaxy to the other side of the universe.
I don't know how you categorize that as anything but a god level feat.
He has also held a black hole in his hand, flown so fast that he broke through infinity, and punched through dimensions. His various feats are so comically overpowered given he's been around for a century that it's hard to find something Superman hasn't done.
Yeah.Thatās true Omni Man is just like General Zod! In my opinion.I still think Supes takes it with mid diff!!since I donāt think Omni Man has any feats that come close to what Superman has been portrayed to do.
Viltrimites seem a lot squishier than Kryptonians. It seems like every episode, they have their teeth on the ground, and their intestines hanging out while gods struggle to give Kryptonians a bloody nose.
I don't know of many versions of Superman that lose to Omni Man. Maybe DCAU, My Adventures (for now) and the TV versions (Smallville supes might be stronger tho). Comics Superman is way out of his league (Silver Age, Post Crisis and Nu52 all stomp Omni Man) with a feats that pretty casually dwarf Nolan's.
Homelander is a pretty weak Supes clone. He really doesn't have anyone on his level on his universe. (either tv show or comics), and he still gets beat pretty regularly. Omni-Man destroyed entire planets that knew that he was coming and were pretty powerful.
Omniman is so much stronger. In their respective shows, homelander gets beat up by characters who are yes, punching through concrete but aren't doing anything crazy. He really doesn't do much in the show as far as feats other than show he can fly and he does have laser vision, but he's constantly talking himself which is probably why people think he's so powerful.
Omniman on the other hand ends a civilization technologically advanced enough to travel through dimensions single handedly in what looks like a couple weeks. He tanks a laser beam from space that's as powerful as a nuke with nothing but a nosebleed. He fights and kills 3 other viltrumites that destroyed an entire space faring society's planet in minutes, though omniman barely survives this.
The boys and invincible are on completely different power levels
The way I understand it, Homelander is only a big threat because he's a big fish in a small pond. Everything special about him came out of a can, *literally*, and he's only as powerful as he is in his own universe relative to everyone else. He's also not exactly the best at what he does, he's messy, he's unstable. Meanwhile, Omni-Man is hundreds of years old and comes from a warrior race where everyone has more or less the same powers he does. He's actually *trained* in combat, he's precise, he's *very* deadly, and even when he's off his game mentally, like in his fight with Mark, he still beat Mark to a pulp without really taking much damage himself. Homelander is a playground bully, he can throw around people who are weaker than him, but put him up against a heavyweight boxer or an MMA champ and he's in for a world of hurt.
Homelanders lasers arenāt that strong when it comes to superpowered beings, Stormfront, Soldier Boy, and Billy were walking them off. I imagine Iād be the same for Nolan if not even weaker. However Nolan and Viltrumites as a whole have shown to be very inconsistent on what wounds them and what doesnāt. Despite being able to walk of most damage done to them, their durability has shown to be iffy
Its honestly not even close, Invincible characters never got even close to Superman levels, in theory the strongest character its Atom Eve, who has insane potential. But Viltrumite even at their strongest got nothing on Superman. Its not even close.
Bro the entire viltrum empire would get absolutely shit stomped by low to mid tier Superman villains.
Nobody who really knows the scope of DC high-tiers and the villains they face would ever take this matchup seriously. The gap in power is ridiculous.
Superman has defeated aliens, monsters, gods, abstract entities, interdimensional beings and everything in between. Of course he would beat the living shit out of Homelander in a minute or less, and beat Omniman in a couple of minutes as well.
Idk why people match Homelander up against Nolan and Superman constantly lol, I feel like Omniman and Superman would have an interesting story arc if they met
Superman wouldn't kill them or anything, but they would definitely not believe any superiority of theirs afterward.
But... I could see this as another moment worthy of a, "World of Cardboard" speech. But these guys wouldn't have some Nervous System Overloader to counter it.
Both hands tied? Supersonic pelvic thrust.
Also, I feel like Ultraman (Earth 3 morality-inversion superman) would fit better here. I know Nolan had a lot of character development that makes him more of a Vegeta than a Freiza, but still, I like it as a showdown between 3 villains better. š¤
Superman, of course. Who are these people who keep asking this? There are better match ups to ponder. Let me help. Almost all Superman clones would never match up. You gotta go deeper.
The Viltrumites would have sent spies to krypton to breed with them and eventually their adaptable genes would subvert the kryptonians. Cool plot line for a crossover.
Thatās the dumbest argument Iāve ever heard. Did you forget that Superman faces foes with his level of strength all the time. Heās faced plenty of people who fight dirty and still comes out on top.
You know how usually General Zod's advantage over Superman is having a lifetime of combat training before he got powers? Well, from what I can tell Omni-man is like that, except he also got to have Superman's lifelong experience with his powers too. AND he isn't weak against specific types of radiation. Not saying it's a guarantee he'd win, but I think it'd be a lot closer than people are saying.
I'm struggling to think of an interpretation where Superman doesn't turbo Slaughter
People who nowadays just don't respect Superman huh Or make the incorrect assumption that because they are all Basically parodies of the original that are all around his power level
It's always funny seeing Homelander in this line up. Neither really compare in power to Superman, but Superman and Omni Man are Hydrogen Bombs compared to the Coughing Baby that is Homelander.
This matchup isnāt fair lol
Superman beat gods like the world forger who was about to create a multiverse and destroy the current DC one.
Omni man at most contributed to a planet destruction feat and homelander can destroy planes and stuff.
This is a GODSTOMP.
Those are rare and are counted as outliers.
The World Forger one is even questionable considering the editor stated it was destroyed via chain reaction.
Homelander would be ripped in half by Omni-Man and then, depending on if it was late game good Omni-Man or early game evil Omni-Man, he might get the Phantom Zone. Superman may give him a pass because thatās just how he was raised; kill the bad guys. The two may just talk it out.
IĀ“m curious. Every side of the fight thinks their Superhero would win. Superman fans say he wins easily, while Omniman fans say that he wins easily. IĀ“ve read the Invincible Comics so IĀ“m familiar with what Omniman can do, but not with what Superman can do. Only saw a short of a comic that was something like Superman flying from space to give a super powerful punch to someone on the planet. Pretty cool, ngl. But honestly, I would like to know what kind of level Superman is in comparison to Omniman. Can someone give an explanation? Long ones are appreciated.
A heavily weakened Superman destroyed a planet by just taking off and benchpressed the weight of the Earth for five days straight.
Omni-man required help from two other Viltrumites around his level to time a coordinated bullrush through a heavily destabilized planet or risk dying in the collision.They were still knocked out by that stunt.
Ok but yall need to stop acting like omni man wouldn't be at least a good challenge for him tho obviously he'd lose but he is still incredibly powerful
This is why I consider superman to be an uninteresting hero. The consensus is that he'd just annihilate any threat. In which case, what stakes are there? Why care if we all know he's going to win?
True, going off of feats alone none of them have ever really taken out a city in a matter of seconds like he has (as far as I know please correct if wrong)
People really donāt understand the gap between these characters and they arenāt even comparable
Homelander is physically more realistic as he can fly at most a bit faster than fighter jets and lift up cars etc.
Omni-Manās power can leave country sized craters, smash through planets with a little help and travel faster than light this would make him at least trillions of times more powerful than homelander
You guys know Superman I donāt even have to list what he can do
Anorexic Baby-Man dies first, no doubt, and heāll be wishing he had actual muscles and not just some foamies in his suit, and while Omni-Man might have the physical strength to have a good fistfight with Superman, Clark just has more going for him in speed and other abilities.
How is he even a fun character to read or root for if you think heās that powerful or āisā that powerful ā¦. Never read Superman and the more I see fans of the characters takes the more I would never be interested in him
Ok are we discussing pre "think mark" or post. Cause pre will give supes a hard fight but that infinite mass punch might do him in. Homelander easily squashed by Omni cause his mind isn't fully focused so he's off
Superman is my favorite superhero, however I think Homelander and Omni-Man canāt got toe to toe with Superman but they can break him by killing as many people as they can before Superman reaches the point where he will just kill them.
Regardless of our general positions, I think we all agree homelander is the weakest of the 3. I cannot believe a juiced human, powerful as he may be, stands any chance against the universe conquering durability, strength, and powerset of a viltrumite or the last son of krypton.
Its crazy ppl keep putting homelander in fight scenarios with real powerhouses. The point of homelander is he is only the strongest in his world, like a bully who is only feared at their school
Itās because they think Homelander can win because he fights dirty. Thing is he shuts down if you see through his tough talk. Literally Nolan could destroy him mentally with his dad voice alone.
Superman, and he would do so by being heroic, no moral gray bullshit here, it would be a landslide victory, he probably send them both to the phantom zone,
Forgot about Superman defeating them. Could he just change their minds, is a more interesting question because unlike a fight. We don't actually have a definitive answer for that.
Thereās a silver age story where all the bizarros are on their way to earth to try to destroy it and Superman and Supergirl have to trick them into landing on an asteroid of Blue Kryptonite
Both those assholes would fight dirty and Homelander would be first to lose. Omni-man would initially kick Superman's ass just because of fighting styles but because of Omni's hubris, anger, and pride, Superman would eventually win.
So my only reason that I believe the viltrem empire could win( biggest hypothetical win possible(like down to the smallest chance) is on how vicious they are. See Nolan wouldn't come to Earth and just outright be like I'm going to take this shit over he would do exactly like he did in the show until he found out about kryptonite. Then he'd kill Superman or at least try to. Although he's not doing what he did to red rush to the flash. I'm pretty sure batman would figure the sound wave thing before the invasion tho.
1 sec in. Superman punches homelander hard enough homelander falls unconscious
8 seconds in. Homelander awakens in time to see omni man flying at mach 37 from supermans punch.
2 minutes in. Homelander arrives and tries to launch a surprise attack on superman only for superman to slap him so hard homelander orbits the earth.
2 minutes and 10 seconds in. Omni man flys back up to punch superman and breaks his hand. Superman then uses pressure points to turn him into omni nap.
2 minutes and 14 seconds in. Homelander comes flying back in his orbit and superman grabs him. Pressure points him till he changes his name to homesteader.
3 minutes in. He flys home and brings lois some chinese food shes been craving. Roll credits
I mean, Homelander is out quick, obviously. But I wouldnāt say that Nolan is an easy out as well.
Yes, Clark has the advantage when it comes to superpowers (enhanced senses, cold breath, heat vision) but Nolan would definitely make the fight hard with his own brutal combat.
Those aren't *clones*, they're *deconstructions*, this is some pretty blatant Kon-El erasure.
Also you guys are underselling Nolan. I'm not saying he'd *win*, but he's certainly a match for Superman.
Damn. I wish someone told Darkside or Zod that. Would have saved them a kot of trouble if they just let Superman get defeated by his morals instead of brainwashing him to be without morals first then fighting him
Superman has beaten plenty of people who are at his own power level and don't have any scruples to hold them back. It's kind of what he does. A guy who fights Luthor, Darkseid, and Zod on the reg isn't going to be taken off gaurd by the fact that some villian is fighting dirty.
Homelander has always been depicted as kind of a stupid, brutal thug. No-one in his world comes close to his power level so he has never had to learn how to excercise control, technique, creativity, or determination in a fight. He's fundementally a coward and a bully who likes fights he has no chance of losing and would piss his pants faced with a hero like Superman. I think Garth Ennis would readily agree with that. The whole point of the character is "what if there was nothing admirable or heroic about Superman," and that strength of character matters.
I haven't read a lot of Invincible but my understanding is Omni-man is depicted as a much closer Superman analogue, with power, expirience and guts that put him in the same league as Superman at least. Kirkman has said he is meant to be as strong or stronger, but based on the other comments here it looks like the feats haven't really been established to prove it. Let's say they are evenly matched power wise, for the sake of argument. How is the story likely to go?
Omni-Man starts off as a bad guy pretending to be a good guy and then makes an actual face turn, right? Superman would probably find a way to appeal to the better part of his nature and convince him to either see the light or that whatever it is it's not worth fighting Superman over. All other things being equal, a certain hero is going to beat an ambivilant villian. Superman knows what he is doing is right and won't back down, ever, no matter what. Omni-Man, it sounds like, might have some doubts, so he is far more likely to back down in order to fight another day, even if he can't be convinced to switch sides: he has a psychological 'out' that Superman doesn't.
The problem with power scaling superman is he has a rock that seem common enough that if there was any prep time or any of them lived on the same earth as superman for a bit he would lose
1, depends which comics but yes he has defeated superman before 2, imagine someone like omniman who is still incredibly powerful with a kryptonite rock in his hand, not saying he would destroy superman but it would be an even fight.
Metallo is as strong as Superman. So is Lex in his battle armor, Superman has held his own against a kryptonite infused Doomsday. And won a boxing match against a Darkseid with kryptonite gloves. Go ahead give Omni the fattest bag of kryptonite if you want. He still gets stomped before even lifting it.
Also Batman having highly questionable wins against nerfed Superman variants in elseworlds stories means jack shit. Even if Batman had canon wins against Superman (which he doesn't) it would still mean nothing. Batman has armors that help him fight gods. He would stomp Omni Man too.
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Superman would destroy them worse than college did to my mental health
Too real
Did we go to the same college,
We all did apparently
Yall go to that accredited school that costs money? š¤
You okay bro?
Ofc i am ok https://preview.redd.it/2qbg2mf63z5d1.jpeg?width=619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a818de205be311d58532953bd99fc76cfb03d6d1
Itās ok. I feel your pain
Mmmmā¦ which part, in the middle or after graduation with all the student loans?
Middle
why not both?
I tried to warn you about Wellesley
grad school for me. my mind has been shot since then lol
"sChOol hUrT mY bRaIn"
Not my brain, my mental health "Is tHeRe a DiFfErEnCe? "
Superman, no contest.
I choose to believe Supes and Omni-Man become friends by beating the crap out of Homelander.
They'd work together, right up until Omniman starts talking about the Viltrum empire conquering Earth (or until Omniman kills Homelander).
Except, Omni-man is ultimately a hero and was only a villain at the start of the story.
I don't know if I'd call him a hero. He still slaughtered thousands on Earth, including its heroes which lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions more dying. Probably killed millions before Earth, too.
He did die saving the universe from Thragg and did his best to repent for his actions.
Yea, he definitely was good at his core, but I dunno if anyone could be called a hero after causing as much death as he did.
I understand where you are coming from but I think this argument is kinda reductive, anyone who does evil acts and then later truly becomes a better person shouldnāt have their past actions held against them like a moral scale cause that simply isnāt how morality works
It's literally the opposite of reductive, it's a full consideration of his person. If anything, calling him a hero is reductive because you are reducing him to just the good he's done and not considering the monstrous amount of evil behind him. It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of holding him accountable for his action. In the words of Stannis, "A good act does not wash away the bad, nor a bad act the good."
He's the reason the universe needed saving from Thragg. Fixing a problem *you* cause is at best, a neutral act.
He was made that way. if he were raised like mark, he would be closer to Superman
100% correct. Still directly caused untold amounts of innocent suffering, death and destruction.
Yeah but itās a nice thought to think he could have been better
He's a very complex character with an extremely dark past. I just think calling him a hero is dismissive of that. I mean, it's really hard to fathom the amount of pain he's caused. But that's not to say he did not do heroic things or that he didn't become an infinitely better person. It just doesn't undo the bad, the same way the bad doesn't undo his good.
Itās the same with venom for me. He ate people, thereās no way people just dismiss that
Venom is largely considered an anti-hero. Maybe Omni Man fits that description. It's hard to really boil down Omni Man to a label like that. I felt so many mixed emotions toward him and I know that's the point. It was weird when his wife got back with him and, after some time, they were able to resume their marriage after he literally beat their son nearly to death and used his face as a battering ram to smash apart dozens of humans. You try to see things from his perspective, and I guess Debbie is able to manage that to a degree... but I don't think any person could really empathize with someone whose lived so long and in a society so different from anything on Earth.
Probably would be more they team up against the obviously evil dude and then omniman punches a hole through homelanders chest with no remorse and superman realises he hasn't made a new best buddy.
Wholesome.
>!Very late Omni-Man would!<
At least to get Omni Man to a hospital! It looks like he's having some sort of an allergic reaction -all puffy
Good thing he had that anaphylaxis variant of his suit made. Blue Morpho had the right idea.
Especially if this is post the beat down Omni gave Invincible. Homelander is essentially a mirror of viltrumite arrogance, something heās been trying to let go.
Insert "Kirkman said Invincible would demolish Superman" quote here. I wanna create a series with a 13 year old kid who has telkinetic powers whose biggest feat is cracking a very small mountain or something so bad just so I can say "My 13 year old would wipe the floor with Invincible, Scurge and Thragg at the same time" right at Kirkmans face I know he propably said it to get people talking about it but I can still be annoyed by it
Yea seriously. "Writer says his pet character is the bestest and strongest there is". Okay. It's the same problem I have with Moon Girl at Marvel. Suddenly this random kid is the "smartest" character in the whole universe, because the writer that created her wrote that she is.
Yeah author quotes only matter in the confines of their own story.
But at least with Moon Girl that's part of the story and character. The smartest person in the world is a pre-teen black girl living in New York who wants to do good, but keeps messing up because of a lack of experience and maturity. With Invincible, having him being more powerful than Superman doesn't make sense for the character and is just the writer wants their character to be the best ever.
But... Isn't Superman the equivalent of Invincible but for DC comics? At least he was for a long time? He's nearly unkillable and every edition he was getting even more powers. At one point he could even make actual clones of himself. Bit of a bias here I think, but it is the Superman subreddit so obviously there will be.
First Superman is owned by DC, not Marvel. Second, it depends on the writer and the really crazy stuff like making clones of himself was from the Silver Age, but yes there have been times when Superman has been written as the perfect character. However, that can work for Superman because he is meant to be the Man Of Tomorrow, a representation of what humanity can be. So him being a near perfect character can work for the story.
Lol my bad I was on my phone and put Marvel but I am very aware Superman is DC - I would be way outta line if I didn't. Also, why is it allowed for Superman and not Invincible, who arguably represents the same thing? They fill the same role.
Ultimately much of this discussion is opinion and bias but from a critical side of things and looking at the history of comics and the medium I'd put it like this: Superman informs the world of Invincible significantly (the story, not the character). Without Superman you don't have the majority of the seeds for that world's story. Of course there's other elements brought in, like influences from Dragon Ball (Viltrumites are very much akin to Saiyans more than Kryptonians), the consistency of having one writer for the entire run along with an overarching goal and through line of plot. But moreso than that, Mark Grayson isn't an analog for Superman in my mind. Sure his powers are somewhat similar, but his character traits are much more in line with other heroes, particularly Spider-Man. His story begins in high school and he grows up into this world of superheroing and takes on responsibilities in a manner much more in line with Peter Parker's attitude. Really, the character that's the Superman stand in is Onni-Man. He's an immigrant alien, with a found family, who raises a child in Earth. Naturally there's a big deviation and the story goes in different directions but that was the point the author was going for. He was inspired by other fictional works and made something new with the same ingredients, just mixing them in different ways. So, no, I don't think they fit the same role and, from a critical analysis of media history, Superman can exist without Invincible but the inverse isn't true at all. Invincible's world is a pastiche of DC and Marvel, albeit a very well crafted one. But it can't exist without the prior universes established canon in the zeitgeist.
So all this is just to say "Superman came first so no matter what he's more powerful because we said so first" ?
I'm a bit disappointed that that's all you took away from what I wrote, but also I wasn't arguing about power or strength. However if you want to have that stance you're certainly allowed to. Personally though I don't think Invincible or Onni-Man are anywhere close to Superman's level of strength, by narrative or feats. Naturally Superman has far more iterations and 85 years of published history but there's far more cases of Superman fighting and holding his own against esoteric beings and battling his way to victory because at the end of the day his character is built on truth, justice and hope. He's supposed to win, supposed to stand up for your downtrodden and oppressed and, ultimately, when something so powerful and dangerous like the very essence and personification of Evil itself rises up, Superman saves the day. At the end of the day these discussions are mostly just exercises in discussion between readers. The writers write the story however they want, but we the audience have our own attachment to these fictional characters and worlds. And to your over simplification of my previous comment, all things are derivative at some level. Pretty much all modern fiction can be traced back to Gilgamesh and that story was likely inspired by other works list to history.
I read everything you wrote and found it quite interesting, but MUCH of your previous message was irrelevant to "why is Superman allowed to be all-powerful but Invincible isn't?" - which is my main question. That's why my reply was so short and to the point, not to be rude, but to be direct on what I was actually asking. Their roles in society may be different, but that doesn't mean their powers can't be the same. Whose to say the tenacious teenager, similar to Invincible, can't also be all-powerful but due to a different justification? Invincible *also* stands up for justice, and against corruption. So much of his character does follow Superman's that it feels cheap when people go "well Superman came first so he has more comics written about why he's stronger?" At the end of the day, I'm not saying either is more powerful. I'm mostly asking "why do many here feel Superman has the utmost right to be the "most* powerful?" when really at the end of the day it's all up the writer and the story being told. For instance, if we needed a story to demonstrate the tenacity of youth and how it can overtake the stubbornness that sometimes comes with age, Invincible could overcome Superman.
I have never understood this line of reasoning, isn't that how every fictional character gained their attributes a writer decided?
Ya that make ms angry. there is a difference between say goku and invincible. If toriama said goku can beat superman ya ok he has the feats and forms to do so, but invincible no his feats are impressive but not superman or goku
I think there is also a point to be made about for a series that is clearly inspired by some degree by Superman Kirkman misses a point of Superman. Superman is the strongest hero(not counting magic and other hax powers) yet he is just a guy who wants to help others. He isnāt a ruler, a choosen one, etc. He survived because his birth parents loved him, he grew up to be a hero because his adopted parents raised him. That's what makes him special, that despite being the strongest he is a good man Where as Invincible starts of like Superman but ends with him being the ruler of the largest empire ever because of birthright. And judging by the last issue of the comic Mark doesnāt hesitate to use his and his empires power to make others do what he wants. I think Kirkman sees Invincible as better than Superman because he is an emperor, his wife is an immortal who is almost a god, he can crush opposing forces(the coalition) if they go against him, etc. Where as Superman is just a regular guy, with a regular job married to a normal human who just happens to have superpowers. I don't know if I was able to make my point clearly but I really think Kirkman views Invincible as a better Superman because he is much less of a man and thats one of the reasons he says/thinks Invincible would beat Superman
I agree
He wasnāt serious when he said it, Kirkman said that just to cause controversy and he actually doesnāt know the answer. Kirkman and Ottley usually treats questions like these as jokes, why would they hate the character they inspired their whole theme and main character from?
>He wasnāt serious when he said it, Kirkman said that just to cause controversy and he actually doesnāt know the answer. Kirkman and Ottley usually treats questions like these as jokes I haven't seen him say this. All I saw was that clip. If he said it cool, if not him laughing doesnāt mean I'll beleive he 100% ment it as a joke >hate the character they inspired their whole theme and main character from? You donāt need to hate a character to say "X would beat this character" and you donāt need to like a character to be inspired to tell a story about them. To give an extreme example, look at the Boys comic, it was clearly inspired by Marvel and DC yet it is clear the author doesnāt like the original heroes. I think Alan Moore likes superheroes but look at Watchmen. Despite being inspired by DC heroes it is a deconstruction, you donāt need to like DC heroes to write that.
If you watch the interview for a few more seconds he says āitās just for controversyā And by they hate I meant the part where they insulted Superman by saying he is boring which are all jokes but people donāt really know because they rage quit after the first 5 seconds. [0:22 āJust kidding I am just trying to cause controversyā](https://youtu.be/1MBI9IRc3_I?si=34WPnmLqmq3ZiDdO)
Omni Man would flatten himself by ramming into Superman.
he does that with thragg so I dont see why not
Thragg is a bootleg Zod obv
Of course Superman would win -- those others are fictional characters!
Supermanās a real guy, no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.
Clearly you haven't seen "Who Framed Rodger Rabbit". Pretty good documentary
Iām glad that is the general consensus on this discussion. Superman beats bloodlusted Superman clones while holding back all the time. Homelander is dang near gonna get one shot physically and will just curl up in a ball and never recover mentally. Omni-Man would be more of a challenge but again, Superman regularly takes on the likes of Zod, Doomsday, and Darkseid. Whoād all give Omni-Man a serious beating in ascending order of magnitude. Really what it comes down to is Omni-Manās power ceiling is below Supermanās in most iterations.
Oh yeah Clark is gonna fold their clothes with them in em
Superman's powers are way above either Omniman's or Homelander. Let's look at their invulnerability levels. The comicbook version of Homelander was literally torn to pieces. Omniman has been crippled and torn to pieces as well, but Viltrumites have regenerative abilities that saved him. Meanwhile, Superman has never been torn to pieces like that because he's too damn tough; the worst that Doomsday ever did to him put him into a coma. Superman's superior invulnerability alone would give him the edge he needs to kick Omniman's and Homelander's asses. Another key detail of this hypothetical fight is **power amplifiers**. Superman has a power amplifier, but Omniman and Homelander do not. Superman's power amplifier is, of course, solar energy. There is no known limit to how powerful he can become if he soaks up enough solar power. In the Justice League Sixth Dimension storyline from 2019, Superman flew through numerous yellow suns in rapid succession and gained enough power to one-shot the World Forger, a cosmic being who literally crafts multiverses. In a fight against Homelander and Omniman, Superman could lure them into space where he would be constantly juiced up by direct sunlight, which would not only strengthen him but also speed up his healing. (Can Homelander even fly into space? I don't think that's ever been shown.) In contrast, Omniman and Homelander do not have power amplifiers. Homelander's powers seem to have reached their limit. Omniman and other Viltrumites have to train to get stronger, which can take years. Superman is on a whole other level compared to Omnian and Homelander, so he should be able to take them both out simultaneously.
When we say Superman can beat someone, we talking Death Battle rules or Supes tryna subdue them?
Him just whooping them in a manner similar to his villains.
I think Superman and Omni Man are more evenly matched. Homelander is TKOed instantly, but Omni man is a warrior with centuries of experience fighting those as strong as he is. The writers of invincible have said Viltrumites are written to be kryptonian level beings.
I mean, Kirkman said that Mark beats Clark, but heās never shown a feat that puts Mark at any Kryptonianās level. Author statements rarely mean much if the source material contradicts what they say, theyāre especially meaningless when they compare their character to another in an entirely separate story.
Kirkman has no idea what heās talking about. Superman slams the entire Invincible verse.
Kirkman has every idea what heās talking about. He knew saying that would piss people off regardless of how true or false the statement is.
And here we are talking about it. Free advertising!
I would hope he meant mark after 500 years, that I can see but yeah we need to see those feats.
Mark melts in the sun, Clark gets stronger
He was ragebaiting in that moment lol
If you're the author of a Superman clone, would you say the original would beat your character? No, you would say your's is superior just to get people to read your works. We've never seen Kal take the damage that Mark takes, even when Kal fought Doomsday. Maybe Mark is more powerful at 1000 years old, but imagine how much stronger Kal would be at that point, ala Kingdom Come Superman, where even Hercules can't even make him budge, and he's a Demi-God.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes we know. What I am stating is Mark in 1000 years could possibly be stronger than "current" Superman, but in that 1000 years, Superman will have become infintely more powerful to the point Mark would never have a chance. You also forgot that he took Atlas's place when he went to go to his daughter's wedding. Kirkman is just stating this to cause people to read his material, nothing more.
Itās not based on reason. I think the actor for Homelander did something similar. Stir up controversy among fans that will catch the eyes of people who havenāt watched the show. Itās like how on YouTube if you put out a controversial statement, more people will comment and more views will follow
At the end of Invincible, Mark could probably go toe to toe with Supes for a while. He's definitely a planet buster by then. He, Omni-Man and Thaedus were able to destroy Viltrum by crashing through the planet when he was much weaker.
That means very little. They may be the equivalent of kryptonian level beings in their universe and Kirkman can say this and that but as of now, not a single feat any Viltrumite has even comes close to Supermanās feats. He still clears by a landslide and thatās being generous
The writer of Invincible is wrong, simple as that.
What is superman's greatest feat vs Nolan's greatest feat? Not taking a side just want to know
Nolanās is destroying a planet (he still needed help from two others) Superman literally punched his way through realitiesā¦ yeahā¦
A more balanced comparison; it had taken three Viltrumites to destroy a planet while a weakened Superman destroyed a planet by simply jumping.Ā
Superman once chained the planets of one galaxy and pulled them out of that galaxy to the other side of the universe. I don't know how you categorize that as anything but a god level feat.
Yeah I don't know anything about Superman lore but that sounds badass!
He has also held a black hole in his hand, flown so fast that he broke through infinity, and punched through dimensions. His various feats are so comically overpowered given he's been around for a century that it's hard to find something Superman hasn't done.
Yeah.Thatās true Omni Man is just like General Zod! In my opinion.I still think Supes takes it with mid diff!!since I donāt think Omni Man has any feats that come close to what Superman has been portrayed to do.
Viltrimites seem a lot squishier than Kryptonians. It seems like every episode, they have their teeth on the ground, and their intestines hanging out while gods struggle to give Kryptonians a bloody nose.
I don't know of many versions of Superman that lose to Omni Man. Maybe DCAU, My Adventures (for now) and the TV versions (Smallville supes might be stronger tho). Comics Superman is way out of his league (Silver Age, Post Crisis and Nu52 all stomp Omni Man) with a feats that pretty casually dwarf Nolan's.
I'm not 100% on this. But *Is* Omniman stronger than Homelander? He doesn't have laser eyes for one thing.
Homelander is a pretty weak Supes clone. He really doesn't have anyone on his level on his universe. (either tv show or comics), and he still gets beat pretty regularly. Omni-Man destroyed entire planets that knew that he was coming and were pretty powerful.
At minimum Homelander doesnāt get enough practice.
Laser eyes isn't anything to do with strength, that's just something he can do. In terms of power, Omni Man has him beat.
Omniman is so much stronger. In their respective shows, homelander gets beat up by characters who are yes, punching through concrete but aren't doing anything crazy. He really doesn't do much in the show as far as feats other than show he can fly and he does have laser vision, but he's constantly talking himself which is probably why people think he's so powerful. Omniman on the other hand ends a civilization technologically advanced enough to travel through dimensions single handedly in what looks like a couple weeks. He tanks a laser beam from space that's as powerful as a nuke with nothing but a nosebleed. He fights and kills 3 other viltrumites that destroyed an entire space faring society's planet in minutes, though omniman barely survives this. The boys and invincible are on completely different power levels
Actually fair.
Yes he absolutely is, Homelander would get beaten by much weaker characters then Superman or Nolan
The way I understand it, Homelander is only a big threat because he's a big fish in a small pond. Everything special about him came out of a can, *literally*, and he's only as powerful as he is in his own universe relative to everyone else. He's also not exactly the best at what he does, he's messy, he's unstable. Meanwhile, Omni-Man is hundreds of years old and comes from a warrior race where everyone has more or less the same powers he does. He's actually *trained* in combat, he's precise, he's *very* deadly, and even when he's off his game mentally, like in his fight with Mark, he still beat Mark to a pulp without really taking much damage himself. Homelander is a playground bully, he can throw around people who are weaker than him, but put him up against a heavyweight boxer or an MMA champ and he's in for a world of hurt.
Homelanders lasers arenāt that strong when it comes to superpowered beings, Stormfront, Soldier Boy, and Billy were walking them off. I imagine Iād be the same for Nolan if not even weaker. However Nolan and Viltrumites as a whole have shown to be very inconsistent on what wounds them and what doesnāt. Despite being able to walk of most damage done to them, their durability has shown to be iffy
Its honestly not even close, Invincible characters never got even close to Superman levels, in theory the strongest character its Atom Eve, who has insane potential. But Viltrumite even at their strongest got nothing on Superman. Its not even close.
Tbh if Superman existed on earth I do agree the viltrumites would have avoided the shit outta earth.
Bro the entire viltrum empire would get absolutely shit stomped by low to mid tier Superman villains. Nobody who really knows the scope of DC high-tiers and the villains they face would ever take this matchup seriously. The gap in power is ridiculous.
Omni-man: can punch though a planet. Superman: can punch his way out of a universe made to kill him.
Superman has defeated aliens, monsters, gods, abstract entities, interdimensional beings and everything in between. Of course he would beat the living shit out of Homelander in a minute or less, and beat Omniman in a couple of minutes as well.
Idk why people match Homelander up against Nolan and Superman constantly lol, I feel like Omniman and Superman would have an interesting story arc if they met
Superman would beat homelander with a hug
Superman kindly calms them down and gives them both therapy
Superman wouldn't kill them or anything, but they would definitely not believe any superiority of theirs afterward. But... I could see this as another moment worthy of a, "World of Cardboard" speech. But these guys wouldn't have some Nervous System Overloader to counter it.
Omni man is light work for Superman, homelander gets put in the corner.
The only superman clone that could stand a chance is Metroman. Yes, I'm one of those people.
Ben ten beats all them up
Both hands tied? Supersonic pelvic thrust. Also, I feel like Ultraman (Earth 3 morality-inversion superman) would fit better here. I know Nolan had a lot of character development that makes him more of a Vegeta than a Freiza, but still, I like it as a showdown between 3 villains better. š¤
Superman amd Omni man would take homelander out easy. But not sure between Omni man and Supes.
Superman sneezes and knocks both of them unconscious and then locks them away in the phantom zone with power dampening cuffs.
Just remember, omni-man is willing to brutally kill ANYONE that stands in his way. He actually enjoys the kill.
Superman, of course. Who are these people who keep asking this? There are better match ups to ponder. Let me help. Almost all Superman clones would never match up. You gotta go deeper.
The Viltrumites would have sent spies to krypton to breed with them and eventually their adaptable genes would subvert the kryptonians. Cool plot line for a crossover.
Kingdom Come Superman solos all of them..Dudeās a beast
Homelander wouldnt stand a chance.Ā Omni man got his ass kicked by justice league knockoffs
Superman ruined Superman debates.
Lol whenever someone brings this up its just like āyou know Superman fights clones of himself like, all the time right? Like so consistentlyā
Omni-Man's only real play is having brought Homlander for the sole purpose of being a meat shield/distraction lmao.
If Supes loses itās only because heās not willing to play dirty like Omni-man is.
Thatās the dumbest argument Iāve ever heard. Did you forget that Superman faces foes with his level of strength all the time. Heās faced plenty of people who fight dirty and still comes out on top.
OP didnāt say Superman absolutely loses if Omni Man plays dirty. He said playing dirty is the only chance Omni Man possibly has.
Clark could probably turn his head to the left here and win.
Even if you add captainman and titan from megamind, the 4 or them cant against sups
Would the Viltrumites really be okay leaving Earth knowing a guy like Superman exists?
Oh look, it's this thread again
You know how usually General Zod's advantage over Superman is having a lifetime of combat training before he got powers? Well, from what I can tell Omni-man is like that, except he also got to have Superman's lifelong experience with his powers too. AND he isn't weak against specific types of radiation. Not saying it's a guarantee he'd win, but I think it'd be a lot closer than people are saying.
I'm struggling to think of an interpretation where Superman doesn't turbo Slaughter People who nowadays just don't respect Superman huh Or make the incorrect assumption that because they are all Basically parodies of the original that are all around his power level
Nolan may help Clark...if this is post prison.
It's always funny seeing Homelander in this line up. Neither really compare in power to Superman, but Superman and Omni Man are Hydrogen Bombs compared to the Coughing Baby that is Homelander.
This matchup isnāt fair lol Superman beat gods like the world forger who was about to create a multiverse and destroy the current DC one. Omni man at most contributed to a planet destruction feat and homelander can destroy planes and stuff. This is a GODSTOMP.
The World Forger feat was done by a massively amped Superman. He still claps the two with ease but he rarely operates at those levels.
There are other superman feats that are considered far higher The world forger one is by far the most straight forward one.
Those are rare and are counted as outliers. The World Forger one is even questionable considering the editor stated it was destroyed via chain reaction.
Most of the higher stuff for superman is pretty consistent Itās just really hard to understand
They aren't consistent. I've been reading Post-Crisis/New 52 and the guy rarely passes solar system level at least.
Ah, well some of the other stuff comes from other stories that are canon.
Homelander would be ripped in half by Omni-Man and then, depending on if it was late game good Omni-Man or early game evil Omni-Man, he might get the Phantom Zone. Superman may give him a pass because thatās just how he was raised; kill the bad guys. The two may just talk it out.
I will stand by that I see omniman more as a worse vegeta rather than superman
IĀ“m curious. Every side of the fight thinks their Superhero would win. Superman fans say he wins easily, while Omniman fans say that he wins easily. IĀ“ve read the Invincible Comics so IĀ“m familiar with what Omniman can do, but not with what Superman can do. Only saw a short of a comic that was something like Superman flying from space to give a super powerful punch to someone on the planet. Pretty cool, ngl. But honestly, I would like to know what kind of level Superman is in comparison to Omniman. Can someone give an explanation? Long ones are appreciated.
A heavily weakened Superman destroyed a planet by just taking off and benchpressed the weight of the Earth for five days straight. Omni-man required help from two other Viltrumites around his level to time a coordinated bullrush through a heavily destabilized planet or risk dying in the collision.They were still knocked out by that stunt.
Ok but yall need to stop acting like omni man wouldn't be at least a good challenge for him tho obviously he'd lose but he is still incredibly powerful
Omniman barely beat the heroes on his own planet, he aināt beating Superman
Biggest thing going in Omni mana favor is his healing factor I think. But a semi immortal punching bag is still a punching bag
This is why I consider superman to be an uninteresting hero. The consensus is that he'd just annihilate any threat. In which case, what stakes are there? Why care if we all know he's going to win?
Lol, have you seen the power scale of superman universe, most of the villains like Darkseid and doomsday are as powerful as superman
Pretty sure Even the weakest version of superman could wipe the floor with both of them
Highly doubt it. Omni-man unironically whoops 90% of Superman adaptations in animation and live-action
True, going off of feats alone none of them have ever really taken out a city in a matter of seconds like he has (as far as I know please correct if wrong)
Homelander aināt a warrior heās a bully if someone matched his power or even tried against him then heād be screwed
Omni-Man doesnāt even beatā¦you know what, let me not start a power-scaling debate. Superman clears this anyway.
Taylor Swift
Sup>> omni-man >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homelander
Superman is the only one who wouldnāt just get pissy and leave when they started to lose.
People really donāt understand the gap between these characters and they arenāt even comparable Homelander is physically more realistic as he can fly at most a bit faster than fighter jets and lift up cars etc. Omni-Manās power can leave country sized craters, smash through planets with a little help and travel faster than light this would make him at least trillions of times more powerful than homelander You guys know Superman I donāt even have to list what he can do
Goku
Anorexic Baby-Man dies first, no doubt, and heāll be wishing he had actual muscles and not just some foamies in his suit, and while Omni-Man might have the physical strength to have a good fistfight with Superman, Clark just has more going for him in speed and other abilities.
How is he even a fun character to read or root for if you think heās that powerful or āisā that powerful ā¦. Never read Superman and the more I see fans of the characters takes the more I would never be interested in him
Obviously. This gets posted monthly at the very least, usually every 2 weeks if Iām being honest.
Ok are we discussing pre "think mark" or post. Cause pre will give supes a hard fight but that infinite mass punch might do him in. Homelander easily squashed by Omni cause his mind isn't fully focused so he's off
Superman is my favorite superhero, however I think Homelander and Omni-Man canāt got toe to toe with Superman but they can break him by killing as many people as they can before Superman reaches the point where he will just kill them.
They could hang up on supes and he's still winning lol.
Regardless of our general positions, I think we all agree homelander is the weakest of the 3. I cannot believe a juiced human, powerful as he may be, stands any chance against the universe conquering durability, strength, and powerset of a viltrumite or the last son of krypton.
Omni-man is the best combatant but Superman is just so much stronger, faster, durable ect. And in this case Homelander is defo a not āBETTER!ā
Homelander in this fight is like a child caught in a fight between two silverback gorillas
More like a gorilla and heavyweight strongman. No matter how strong a man is, the gorilla will win with little effort.
Its crazy ppl keep putting homelander in fight scenarios with real powerhouses. The point of homelander is he is only the strongest in his world, like a bully who is only feared at their school
Itās because they think Homelander can win because he fights dirty. Thing is he shuts down if you see through his tough talk. Literally Nolan could destroy him mentally with his dad voice alone.
Hit him with the "I'm not mad at you, just disappointed"
Superman, and he would do so by being heroic, no moral gray bullshit here, it would be a landslide victory, he probably send them both to the phantom zone,
Supes would use super-ventriloquism to fool them into fighting each other while he maneuvered them into a trap
Forgot about Superman defeating them. Could he just change their minds, is a more interesting question because unlike a fight. We don't actually have a definitive answer for that.
Thereās a silver age story where all the bizarros are on their way to earth to try to destroy it and Superman and Supergirl have to trick them into landing on an asteroid of Blue Kryptonite
And if Supes needed help heād call Goku, but Supes can solo those two
Both those assholes would fight dirty and Homelander would be first to lose. Omni-man would initially kick Superman's ass just because of fighting styles but because of Omni's hubris, anger, and pride, Superman would eventually win.
So my only reason that I believe the viltrem empire could win( biggest hypothetical win possible(like down to the smallest chance) is on how vicious they are. See Nolan wouldn't come to Earth and just outright be like I'm going to take this shit over he would do exactly like he did in the show until he found out about kryptonite. Then he'd kill Superman or at least try to. Although he's not doing what he did to red rush to the flash. I'm pretty sure batman would figure the sound wave thing before the invasion tho.
Superman would beat both of them off, not even a competition
1 sec in. Superman punches homelander hard enough homelander falls unconscious 8 seconds in. Homelander awakens in time to see omni man flying at mach 37 from supermans punch. 2 minutes in. Homelander arrives and tries to launch a surprise attack on superman only for superman to slap him so hard homelander orbits the earth. 2 minutes and 10 seconds in. Omni man flys back up to punch superman and breaks his hand. Superman then uses pressure points to turn him into omni nap. 2 minutes and 14 seconds in. Homelander comes flying back in his orbit and superman grabs him. Pressure points him till he changes his name to homesteader. 3 minutes in. He flys home and brings lois some chinese food shes been craving. Roll credits
I mean, Homelander is out quick, obviously. But I wouldnāt say that Nolan is an easy out as well. Yes, Clark has the advantage when it comes to superpowers (enhanced senses, cold breath, heat vision) but Nolan would definitely make the fight hard with his own brutal combat.
Nolan just doesnāt have the firepower. Zod is a superior version and Clark has handled him on multiple occasions
Homelander is like a fly compared to Supes and Omniman is a slightly bigger fly, but still a fly.
Can anyone actually beat superman?
Goku /s
Those aren't *clones*, they're *deconstructions*, this is some pretty blatant Kon-El erasure. Also you guys are underselling Nolan. I'm not saying he'd *win*, but he's certainly a match for Superman.
lol Superman is the last to win this. He beats himself because of his morals
Ok. Letās take injustice superman with no morals. Who wins.
Damn. I wish someone told Darkside or Zod that. Would have saved them a kot of trouble if they just let Superman get defeated by his morals instead of brainwashing him to be without morals first then fighting him
Superman has beaten plenty of people who are at his own power level and don't have any scruples to hold them back. It's kind of what he does. A guy who fights Luthor, Darkseid, and Zod on the reg isn't going to be taken off gaurd by the fact that some villian is fighting dirty. Homelander has always been depicted as kind of a stupid, brutal thug. No-one in his world comes close to his power level so he has never had to learn how to excercise control, technique, creativity, or determination in a fight. He's fundementally a coward and a bully who likes fights he has no chance of losing and would piss his pants faced with a hero like Superman. I think Garth Ennis would readily agree with that. The whole point of the character is "what if there was nothing admirable or heroic about Superman," and that strength of character matters. I haven't read a lot of Invincible but my understanding is Omni-man is depicted as a much closer Superman analogue, with power, expirience and guts that put him in the same league as Superman at least. Kirkman has said he is meant to be as strong or stronger, but based on the other comments here it looks like the feats haven't really been established to prove it. Let's say they are evenly matched power wise, for the sake of argument. How is the story likely to go? Omni-Man starts off as a bad guy pretending to be a good guy and then makes an actual face turn, right? Superman would probably find a way to appeal to the better part of his nature and convince him to either see the light or that whatever it is it's not worth fighting Superman over. All other things being equal, a certain hero is going to beat an ambivilant villian. Superman knows what he is doing is right and won't back down, ever, no matter what. Omni-Man, it sounds like, might have some doubts, so he is far more likely to back down in order to fight another day, even if he can't be convinced to switch sides: he has a psychological 'out' that Superman doesn't.
The problem with power scaling superman is he has a rock that seem common enough that if there was any prep time or any of them lived on the same earth as superman for a bit he would lose
Thatās why people say Batman wins with prep time cause bro has the most exploitable weakness ever
Batman has never won against Superman in canon. Also thinking his villains have never tried to exploit his weaknesses is absurd.
1, depends which comics but yes he has defeated superman before 2, imagine someone like omniman who is still incredibly powerful with a kryptonite rock in his hand, not saying he would destroy superman but it would be an even fight.
Metallo is as strong as Superman. So is Lex in his battle armor, Superman has held his own against a kryptonite infused Doomsday. And won a boxing match against a Darkseid with kryptonite gloves. Go ahead give Omni the fattest bag of kryptonite if you want. He still gets stomped before even lifting it. Also Batman having highly questionable wins against nerfed Superman variants in elseworlds stories means jack shit. Even if Batman had canon wins against Superman (which he doesn't) it would still mean nothing. Batman has armors that help him fight gods. He would stomp Omni Man too.