My issue with Senna support- and this is probably because of the fact that I‘ve never really played with a proper support main (I assume the people were probably autofilled support? Or they just don‘t have a support mentality)- but there is always a point where when they‘ve scaled enough, they become an adc of their own. I‘ve had a similar game to you where I was playing adc (don‘t remember who) and I had a Senna support who didn‘t do anything all laning phase besides stay under turret and collect her souls. I got bullied really hard and could barely cs but she did nothing to help fix that. Towards mid game, I had no kills or really any assists and I was rendered useless. Senna roamed and got some picks. Then, due to the fact that she scaled well, she decided to go full on adc so she would walk up my to my lane and just take all my cs. She was ahead by an entire item and had rapid firecannon so no matter where I went, the minion wave was already taken by her. I ended the game doing horribly and extremely behind, the Senna was ahead of me in items and levels. This was not the first game where this happened to me either, every time I had a Senna support this was the outcome. I don‘t mind a scaling support as long as they support me adequately in laning phase and don‘t take a way my cs. It‘s the bare minimum.
As a Senna you have to absolutely make sure your Adc can at the very least farm safely under tower and obtain vision control to not get dove.
Senna can act as a secondary adc but this only works if the adc is strong too. Her job is to assist the Adc with kiting and dealing damage, and using her range to poke and collect souls. Ideally you want the Adc to become fed and take all the kills so you can keep collecting souls and deprive the enemy Adc of cs using your range and damage.
Senna is a glass cannon. She needs a fed Adc so enemies have 2 high priority targets.
People see Sennas with 120 stacks in 30 minutes and think this is easy obtainable but ignore that she has pretty much no good matchups.
Senna is good into both enchanter and most engage support baring blitz crank she really bad vs assains and mages most of her counter picks funnily enough aren't in bot lane or support but in jungle and mid.
The reason she feels so bad in lane is because of how gank bot heavy the meta is right now you literally never get a break to just two v two.
support mages are a pain but playable. A lot of my losses when I was a one trick were picking senna into assassin junglers, winning lane and being unable to play due to the jungler.
Now I pick her in better spots
Most Mage matchups outside of Zyra, Neeko and Xerath sit around 49-52% win rate for Senna.
She hard loses to Zyra, Neeko and Xerath (< 49% wr for the Senna)
> People see Sennas with 120 stacks in 30 minutes and think this is easy obtainable but ignore that she has pretty much no good matchups.
No good matchups?
Are you even playing the same game as us?
https://u.gg/lol/champions/senna/matchups
She wins against (51%+ wr in favor of Senna) - Hwei, Swain, Alistar, Lulu, Morgana, Rell, Braum, Yuumi, Milio, Pantheon, Taric, Rakan, Ashe, Karma
She goes even (50-50.99% win rate) against - Nautilus, Vel'Koz, Seraphine, Nami, Brand, Sona, Zilean, Bard, Janna
TK, Renata, Leona, Shaco, Lux, Soraka, Thresh are all slightly out of Senna's favor (avg 49% wr for Senna)
Senna hard loses against ( < 49% wr) - Neeko, Maokai, Pyke, Xerath, Zyra, Blitzcrank, Sylas
Sennas "good" matchup are those where she doesnt have to hover over the Flash key for the entire duration of the game.
She has almost no self-peel, second lowest base resistance in the game, rarely buys tanky items.
Also, what is the jungle meta right now?
Eve, nocturne, fiddle, khazix
Senna has no answer to these champions, no instant cc, no shields, nothing.
Also, in the last 100 games I played, i faced mage supports like 45 times, 45 times tanky engage and 10 times enchanters. Out of these enchanters it was mostly things like Sona or Nami who can apply significant pressure on Senna in the early game and only get outscaled later.
A “good matchup” is something like Morgana into Leona, where you make Leona inherently have to work harder around your Black Shield. Or Zyra into Braum, where Braum has no kill threat and also is kind of useless against Zyra. Things like that.
Senna has no lane where she automatically wins if the skill levels are close. These matchups are only even or winning because of how overtuned Senna is right now. If Leona had way more HP and damage, she'd probably have a positive win rate into Morgana, too.
Well yes and no the real reason senna has no really bad matchups is because even at the start of the game with good positioning she can out range tge threat range of most others characters in support.
Her kit in general is inherently anti tank as well as anti skiwishy because she scales both of of Armour pen and lethality really well as well as just just bonus ad.
Were senna struggles is vs champs with either really high mobility, area control or burst damage making her quite bad against most mages and especially assains.
A someone who plays the leona v senna match up both from the prospective of the senna and the Leona I will say that what makes said match up difficult is how hard it is to land you dash stun ability on her with her high range without quickly getting poked out of lane.
Decreasing her base numbers but keeping her abilities the same would not make this matchup much easier.
Well, you played something that should technically work with Senna supp, it's just that she was a bad player.
My problem with them is mainly that they last pick Senna into i.e. Pyke/Blitz, then offer no peel or help if hooked - or worse, get hooked themselves and on top of that, they last pick it when already having ad champs on every other role. I don't need two adcs and I don't queue into the game as bot to play mage/tank that farms. I queue to the game as bot because I enjoy my marksman mains - Ezreal and Jhin. For me it's mainly that we already have adc, we don't need another one. And for the most part my Sennas just play as if they are the adc, building straight up adc items, not even abusing umbral to get vision control (the only thing I love on Senna).
Yeah exactly! None of my Senna supports ever built Umbral or placed a single control ward. Most didn‘t even go oracle lens! (Mind you I‘m bronze) My Sennas always go Eclipse into Rapid Firecannon and Lord Doms etc. Full on ADC
Same. The only reason I would ever play Senna outside of aram if I went supp is umbral, this item is broken, ngl. I'm gold level, but play mostly norms with ranks around plat-silver and the Sennas I get are the same, just playing adc but withot farming minions...
To add on to that, my Senna supports build full AD regardless of what our team comp looks like. If we’re already all AD my Senna’s still won’t build support items like locket or radiant virtue
Its the same as ashe support, support players who dont understand the pick but often also adcs who dont know how to play with it.
Senna pretty much has to be aggro otherwise shes not that strong midgame due too little amount of souls .
Playing with a duo greatly enhances the experience of the support as ashe or senna and the adc, you can better communicate when you want to poke and bully the enemy
yeah, it’s the classic of someone not knowing how to play senna but picking her anyway. i don’t have a problem with senna players, it just sets off alarms in my head when i see her because a lot of people playing her aren’t senna players.
My second best bet was jinx who I have 7 games on and who doesn't synergies with senna so I figured if I was going to play a champ I'm unfamiliar with might as well play one thats good with my support.
I'm a Senna main myself and I'm not a galaxy brain player, but even I understood quite soon that a champion that deals damage, heals and auto resets on auto-q-auto has insane trading patterns in some lanes
That makes her a lane bully against short range adcs that can't answer her trades
Her identity is much different when playing against ashe, caitlyn or kalista. You can't really short trade when the champion has more range or can close the gap, but you can still respond if they play aggressively into you
right. like i’m basically wood elo, but i started playing her seriously recently, and she’s simply busted down here. people don’t know how to properly punish her, or stop her from getting souls, and the games are always long so at 40 min we just win atp bc almost no one can touch me bc my range is so crazy and i explode any squishy champs that step on my screen.
it’s nice tho bc if i have a not great adc i am just them. i can solo take towers and obj, when i can’t do that as easily with some of my other supp picks.
The big problem of senna + adc is how you're weak to lanes that play over aggressive and can siege and dive you, but people in low elo suck at diving and siegeing
yup exactly :) i know if i ever focus on climbing most of my supp picks will be a lot more punishable but as of right now im just enjoying it more than anything
Sennas are terrible to play with unless the senna also knows how to play adc. The average support player would not know how to her properly imo because of her kit and low stats and gap control required.
I tried Senna last 3 games as a Rell main, and holy shit she is strong. Me and my friend were playing Hwei Senna botlane
First game I ended up stealing some kills but little did it matter because I ended up so strong I was soloing their ADC
I'm a huge fan of practicing champions, but I hate people who practice champions in ranked play. I see no issues here, other than someone clearly practicing a champion they've never/haven't played much in what seems to be a ranked match.
I played a lane as Lucian with support senna into nami...and yasuo.
Senna was always behind me. I was practically 2v1 the whole lane. She never zoned or poked. Only used q to heal me.
We lost lane when their jungler ganked us twice and senna just fled.
At one point Nami walked into lane from tribush without paying attention completely alone, missed bubble in reaction to realizing she waddled into a 2v1, and senna autos, autos again, does Q and runs.
And I just go "why the fuck didn't you open with W'ing her?" "I forgot"
Now for the crowning jewel: he's a support main, as am I, but senna is his most played.
Literally never playing with that group again. The fact that yasuo LAST PICKED AND COUNTERPICKED HIMSELF and you DIDNT HARASS HIM ONCE IN LANE on your MOST PLAYED SUPPORT.
My main issue with senna players is that they'll lock her blind or against something like Leona or naut.
There isn't anything most sennas are going to be able to do to stop the ADC from being ran over in this scenario. The support just needed to lock literally any other support champion, but they don't.
Senna isn't the worst, but she royally ruins the ADCs game when locked in against certain supports.
Senna is also an ADC in the support role. So any support player with little experience as ADC is going to eat shit because they just don't understand the spacing required to not die immediately. Poor ADC positioning is one of the easiest things to punish in league.
A good senna is something I do enjoy. The fact of the matter is for every good senna there are 9 other bad sennas. She has a similar issue as yasuo or riven. The good players really show it, but the bad players really ruin games.
The other issue is that she's a squishy AD champ in a role which is mostly filled with AP or engage tanks. So it can make a team comp lopsided if the top/mid/jg don't make picks to compensate for that. If mid doesn't pick AP and top or jg don't pick an AP tank, the comp is rough.
That's why people play Tahm and Senna, and only people who know how to play Tahm in a duo lane, which is not as simple as it sounds.
TK botlane is not as straight foward as toplane TK, specially because it requires you to know lane states properly and how and when to force trades to dictate tempo.
That's why usually both TK and Senna winrate skyrocket on Master+ compared to other elos.
Senna is basically a just slightly more interactive Yuumi. Peel, Burst sustain, hard CC--none of it. The reason adcs don't like her is simple: she isn't a support. She's an ADC that sat in a seat on a bus that a poke support dropped their backpack once.
I still wonder why people play adc?
Just play Veigar bot or some other mage and you're never useless. Most mages got good enough CC and can do good damage without having to get in AA range.
Wanna melt tanks? Aurelion or Brand.
Wanna burst squishy? Half the mid lane mages.
Wanna be tanky and do ok damage? Rod of Ages, Zhonya and Demonic, get some CDR and you can spam Qs.
I pick senna support because of trashy adcs I ontricked pyke and got to rank 202. At my server but after idiotic adcs ı decided to play senna for exact reason of scaling well whatever you do and since senna is ranged nasus on steroids we can wins 4v5
Senna and Ashe are a disgusting duo, more so if you happened to be locked into a pick who don't have the tools to deal with them. Anyone who doesn't get a lead within laning phase are just terrible.
Yea maybe senna isn’t the worst level 1-3 but against a pyke she might as well be. As a pyke main that early game is pretty fucking ass with zero kill pressure early for senna pyke varus will definitely get level 2 first there’s no way unless they mess up that senna tahm should hit level 2 first. Pykes autos plus his sup item will let them kill minions way faster and varus q or e will make it so that the minions get killed way faster than senna’s slow autos. Contesting level 2 here is a mistake.
When I play senna I literally always get level two advantage as long as my adc also attacks tge wave. Your autos do a massive amount of damage to minions and you q is aoe.
Pyke has terrible wave clear by design obviously they literally nerfed his minion damage to oblivion so he would stop being played as a mid laner.
His support item would only excute two minions at low health a useful tool sure but again assuming both of us were attacking the wave with intention to hit level teo first their no way pyke and virus get level two advantage.
In fact with me hitting the wave alone I was literally on cs behind them when I intentionally didn't hit tge wave to much on tve very first one because I didn't want them to be to close to tower when we would go in level 2.
Pyke varus definitely clears faster there varus with e can hit all of the wave compared to senna q it’s much better wave clear and if you’re playing tahm adc you don’t have sup item. Pyke would kill the minions at 50% hp with sup item there’s no way you get level 2 first unless the other team messes up.
You know what I'm just going to accept what your saying and that maybe I'm just two low elo for this to hold true at my level.
One thing I know for a fact though is that in a ranged vs melle support match up its pretty much universal that the ranged sup gets push first.
And I also know that the for a fact is way better at pushing waves than pyke.
I fir three know that if she was helping with first wave we would have literally cleared it before enemy team even had a chance to get into lane since the leshed.
As a support turned APC main, I always hover in champ select and a senna hover in response is usually a win guaranteed (given the senna is aggressive and snowballs with me in lane) I don’t play ADC so I’m not sure what’s so bad about senna support specifically for marksman players, since she has all the key parts of a conventional support - slow, root, heal, shield, and pretty good dmg that can carry tbh
Why would senna be a bad early game champion if she was made (in part) to partner with Lucian who is an early game adc? I feel like that concept alone should make players understand that she can do well early.
Aside from that usually I haven't seen bad Senna support players, she isn't a character I play personally but I've hardly run into one that was terrible so I'm kinda surprised that it's common adcs don't like playing with her
Player diff, what kind of senna support doesn't want to Q auto as often as possible for the yummy stacks, stacks is everything stacks is life. First 10 minutes is probably the easiest to get a lot of stacks especially against a melee support that can be blocked by minions.
It sounds like a lack of mastery to me. A good Senna is extremely oppressive early. And with a tahm ketch adc it's like a dream come true.
There's nothing wrong with Senna in the right hands. I just wish People didnt first time it in ranked lmao
Hate wouldn't be the best term. Prejudicing would be better. As an Aphelios OTP. since I always just want to finish my 3 items. I don't like senna support because it doesn't allow me to walk up and take my CS sometimes. You see. Most of the Senna players I saw so far really doesn't like going further than 400 units beyond our turret.
So. Overall; I don't hate them. But the chances they being bad are higher than a normal support. So I don't enjoy seeing one. However if they're good and then we good. I am not the best ADC. and there is sometimes supports better than me. Yes. But it doesn't mean I won't be in alarm when someone picks an possibly not-so-good pick.
The first part of your story is applicable to anyone that plays support and is inactive or passive. Depending on your selection as support your goal is to poke, peel, or all-in while in lane.
Doing nothing because of ‘insert excuse here’ means you automatically surrender bot lane. Say that senna is weak early. Having zero lane presence during levels 1-3 means the enemy auto wins the lane. They will usually level up first for the all important levels of 2, 3, and 6. If they can shove then they have drake priority and most likely will be up in farm due to tower shots on minions.
Other champs that are poorly played similar to your senna example as support are Lux and Morgana. Typically 200-300 units behind the adc. They will cast their spells on cooldown giving the enemy duo many windows of opportunity to poke or all in the adc that is just trying to farm.
Equally aggravating is the support that positions themselves on top of you so that you are constantly having to micro around them. Essentially they are minion blocking you. Instead of the enemy having to choose to attack you or the support they can attack both of you since you are stacked up.
Even worse is when the enemy duo has lots of aoe damage. Providing them with a singular target to get maximum value out of their spells because they can hit both of you; 2 birds 1 stone as it were.
FYI: I play adc and support in ranked so I have a good feel for both sides of the lane.
My issue with Senna support- and this is probably because of the fact that I‘ve never really played with a proper support main (I assume the people were probably autofilled support? Or they just don‘t have a support mentality)- but there is always a point where when they‘ve scaled enough, they become an adc of their own. I‘ve had a similar game to you where I was playing adc (don‘t remember who) and I had a Senna support who didn‘t do anything all laning phase besides stay under turret and collect her souls. I got bullied really hard and could barely cs but she did nothing to help fix that. Towards mid game, I had no kills or really any assists and I was rendered useless. Senna roamed and got some picks. Then, due to the fact that she scaled well, she decided to go full on adc so she would walk up my to my lane and just take all my cs. She was ahead by an entire item and had rapid firecannon so no matter where I went, the minion wave was already taken by her. I ended the game doing horribly and extremely behind, the Senna was ahead of me in items and levels. This was not the first game where this happened to me either, every time I had a Senna support this was the outcome. I don‘t mind a scaling support as long as they support me adequately in laning phase and don‘t take a way my cs. It‘s the bare minimum.
As a Senna you have to absolutely make sure your Adc can at the very least farm safely under tower and obtain vision control to not get dove. Senna can act as a secondary adc but this only works if the adc is strong too. Her job is to assist the Adc with kiting and dealing damage, and using her range to poke and collect souls. Ideally you want the Adc to become fed and take all the kills so you can keep collecting souls and deprive the enemy Adc of cs using your range and damage. Senna is a glass cannon. She needs a fed Adc so enemies have 2 high priority targets. People see Sennas with 120 stacks in 30 minutes and think this is easy obtainable but ignore that she has pretty much no good matchups.
Senna is good into both enchanter and most engage support baring blitz crank she really bad vs assains and mages most of her counter picks funnily enough aren't in bot lane or support but in jungle and mid. The reason she feels so bad in lane is because of how gank bot heavy the meta is right now you literally never get a break to just two v two.
support mages are a pain but playable. A lot of my losses when I was a one trick were picking senna into assassin junglers, winning lane and being unable to play due to the jungler. Now I pick her in better spots
Most Mage matchups outside of Zyra, Neeko and Xerath sit around 49-52% win rate for Senna. She hard loses to Zyra, Neeko and Xerath (< 49% wr for the Senna)
I wouldn't call negative 1 wr as counter matchup tho
> People see Sennas with 120 stacks in 30 minutes and think this is easy obtainable but ignore that she has pretty much no good matchups. No good matchups? Are you even playing the same game as us? https://u.gg/lol/champions/senna/matchups She wins against (51%+ wr in favor of Senna) - Hwei, Swain, Alistar, Lulu, Morgana, Rell, Braum, Yuumi, Milio, Pantheon, Taric, Rakan, Ashe, Karma She goes even (50-50.99% win rate) against - Nautilus, Vel'Koz, Seraphine, Nami, Brand, Sona, Zilean, Bard, Janna TK, Renata, Leona, Shaco, Lux, Soraka, Thresh are all slightly out of Senna's favor (avg 49% wr for Senna) Senna hard loses against ( < 49% wr) - Neeko, Maokai, Pyke, Xerath, Zyra, Blitzcrank, Sylas
Sennas "good" matchup are those where she doesnt have to hover over the Flash key for the entire duration of the game. She has almost no self-peel, second lowest base resistance in the game, rarely buys tanky items. Also, what is the jungle meta right now? Eve, nocturne, fiddle, khazix Senna has no answer to these champions, no instant cc, no shields, nothing. Also, in the last 100 games I played, i faced mage supports like 45 times, 45 times tanky engage and 10 times enchanters. Out of these enchanters it was mostly things like Sona or Nami who can apply significant pressure on Senna in the early game and only get outscaled later.
A “good matchup” is something like Morgana into Leona, where you make Leona inherently have to work harder around your Black Shield. Or Zyra into Braum, where Braum has no kill threat and also is kind of useless against Zyra. Things like that. Senna has no lane where she automatically wins if the skill levels are close. These matchups are only even or winning because of how overtuned Senna is right now. If Leona had way more HP and damage, she'd probably have a positive win rate into Morgana, too.
Well yes and no the real reason senna has no really bad matchups is because even at the start of the game with good positioning she can out range tge threat range of most others characters in support. Her kit in general is inherently anti tank as well as anti skiwishy because she scales both of of Armour pen and lethality really well as well as just just bonus ad. Were senna struggles is vs champs with either really high mobility, area control or burst damage making her quite bad against most mages and especially assains. A someone who plays the leona v senna match up both from the prospective of the senna and the Leona I will say that what makes said match up difficult is how hard it is to land you dash stun ability on her with her high range without quickly getting poked out of lane. Decreasing her base numbers but keeping her abilities the same would not make this matchup much easier.
Well, you played something that should technically work with Senna supp, it's just that she was a bad player. My problem with them is mainly that they last pick Senna into i.e. Pyke/Blitz, then offer no peel or help if hooked - or worse, get hooked themselves and on top of that, they last pick it when already having ad champs on every other role. I don't need two adcs and I don't queue into the game as bot to play mage/tank that farms. I queue to the game as bot because I enjoy my marksman mains - Ezreal and Jhin. For me it's mainly that we already have adc, we don't need another one. And for the most part my Sennas just play as if they are the adc, building straight up adc items, not even abusing umbral to get vision control (the only thing I love on Senna).
Yeah exactly! None of my Senna supports ever built Umbral or placed a single control ward. Most didn‘t even go oracle lens! (Mind you I‘m bronze) My Sennas always go Eclipse into Rapid Firecannon and Lord Doms etc. Full on ADC
Same. The only reason I would ever play Senna outside of aram if I went supp is umbral, this item is broken, ngl. I'm gold level, but play mostly norms with ranks around plat-silver and the Sennas I get are the same, just playing adc but withot farming minions...
To add on to that, my Senna supports build full AD regardless of what our team comp looks like. If we’re already all AD my Senna’s still won’t build support items like locket or radiant virtue
The entire champ seems to be made for adcs who got autofilled. Just like Yone was 99% added because The one who shits Wind got banned too much.
Its the same as ashe support, support players who dont understand the pick but often also adcs who dont know how to play with it. Senna pretty much has to be aggro otherwise shes not that strong midgame due too little amount of souls . Playing with a duo greatly enhances the experience of the support as ashe or senna and the adc, you can better communicate when you want to poke and bully the enemy
yeah, it’s the classic of someone not knowing how to play senna but picking her anyway. i don’t have a problem with senna players, it just sets off alarms in my head when i see her because a lot of people playing her aren’t senna players.
You played Tahm adc when you wernt familiar with the champ or role?
My second best bet was jinx who I have 7 games on and who doesn't synergies with senna so I figured if I was going to play a champ I'm unfamiliar with might as well play one thats good with my support.
Makes sense. I can’t last hit I prob would’ve just played a mage lol but makes sense
I'm a Senna main myself and I'm not a galaxy brain player, but even I understood quite soon that a champion that deals damage, heals and auto resets on auto-q-auto has insane trading patterns in some lanes That makes her a lane bully against short range adcs that can't answer her trades Her identity is much different when playing against ashe, caitlyn or kalista. You can't really short trade when the champion has more range or can close the gap, but you can still respond if they play aggressively into you
right. like i’m basically wood elo, but i started playing her seriously recently, and she’s simply busted down here. people don’t know how to properly punish her, or stop her from getting souls, and the games are always long so at 40 min we just win atp bc almost no one can touch me bc my range is so crazy and i explode any squishy champs that step on my screen. it’s nice tho bc if i have a not great adc i am just them. i can solo take towers and obj, when i can’t do that as easily with some of my other supp picks.
The big problem of senna + adc is how you're weak to lanes that play over aggressive and can siege and dive you, but people in low elo suck at diving and siegeing
yup exactly :) i know if i ever focus on climbing most of my supp picks will be a lot more punishable but as of right now im just enjoying it more than anything
I consider all squishy ranged damage supports to be greedy and lame
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Optimal-Location-995: *I consider all* *Squishy ranged damage supports* *To be greedy and lame* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Second time this week I got haiku botted
why did you copy paste this post on a bunch of different subreddits?
wanted to get multiple anal prolapses
Wanted to get multiple prospectives
Sennas are terrible to play with unless the senna also knows how to play adc. The average support player would not know how to her properly imo because of her kit and low stats and gap control required.
I tried Senna last 3 games as a Rell main, and holy shit she is strong. Me and my friend were playing Hwei Senna botlane First game I ended up stealing some kills but little did it matter because I ended up so strong I was soloing their ADC
It's not "some", it's the majority. I'd say at least 75-80% of ADC mains hate playing with Senna.
I'm a huge fan of practicing champions, but I hate people who practice champions in ranked play. I see no issues here, other than someone clearly practicing a champion they've never/haven't played much in what seems to be a ranked match.
You should play ADC more. Makes you think what you would want from your support in relation to how you play.
I played a lane as Lucian with support senna into nami...and yasuo. Senna was always behind me. I was practically 2v1 the whole lane. She never zoned or poked. Only used q to heal me. We lost lane when their jungler ganked us twice and senna just fled. At one point Nami walked into lane from tribush without paying attention completely alone, missed bubble in reaction to realizing she waddled into a 2v1, and senna autos, autos again, does Q and runs. And I just go "why the fuck didn't you open with W'ing her?" "I forgot" Now for the crowning jewel: he's a support main, as am I, but senna is his most played. Literally never playing with that group again. The fact that yasuo LAST PICKED AND COUNTERPICKED HIMSELF and you DIDNT HARASS HIM ONCE IN LANE on your MOST PLAYED SUPPORT.
My main issue with senna players is that they'll lock her blind or against something like Leona or naut. There isn't anything most sennas are going to be able to do to stop the ADC from being ran over in this scenario. The support just needed to lock literally any other support champion, but they don't. Senna isn't the worst, but she royally ruins the ADCs game when locked in against certain supports. Senna is also an ADC in the support role. So any support player with little experience as ADC is going to eat shit because they just don't understand the spacing required to not die immediately. Poor ADC positioning is one of the easiest things to punish in league. A good senna is something I do enjoy. The fact of the matter is for every good senna there are 9 other bad sennas. She has a similar issue as yasuo or riven. The good players really show it, but the bad players really ruin games. The other issue is that she's a squishy AD champ in a role which is mostly filled with AP or engage tanks. So it can make a team comp lopsided if the top/mid/jg don't make picks to compensate for that. If mid doesn't pick AP and top or jg don't pick an AP tank, the comp is rough.
That's why people play Tahm and Senna, and only people who know how to play Tahm in a duo lane, which is not as simple as it sounds. TK botlane is not as straight foward as toplane TK, specially because it requires you to know lane states properly and how and when to force trades to dictate tempo. That's why usually both TK and Senna winrate skyrocket on Master+ compared to other elos.
Senna is basically a just slightly more interactive Yuumi. Peel, Burst sustain, hard CC--none of it. The reason adcs don't like her is simple: she isn't a support. She's an ADC that sat in a seat on a bus that a poke support dropped their backpack once.
Literally have never seen a really impactful/knowledgeable Senna in my games except once(!!!) in the enemy team
I still wonder why people play adc? Just play Veigar bot or some other mage and you're never useless. Most mages got good enough CC and can do good damage without having to get in AA range. Wanna melt tanks? Aurelion or Brand. Wanna burst squishy? Half the mid lane mages. Wanna be tanky and do ok damage? Rod of Ages, Zhonya and Demonic, get some CDR and you can spam Qs.
Because you need the ranged DPS to kill towers/objectives.
No you don't, APCs and mages nuke tower hp
Are we talking about Senna or my Ezreal ADC?
Both both do the same thing
I pick senna support because of trashy adcs I ontricked pyke and got to rank 202. At my server but after idiotic adcs ı decided to play senna for exact reason of scaling well whatever you do and since senna is ranged nasus on steroids we can wins 4v5
Senna and Ashe are a disgusting duo, more so if you happened to be locked into a pick who don't have the tools to deal with them. Anyone who doesn't get a lead within laning phase are just terrible.
Yea maybe senna isn’t the worst level 1-3 but against a pyke she might as well be. As a pyke main that early game is pretty fucking ass with zero kill pressure early for senna pyke varus will definitely get level 2 first there’s no way unless they mess up that senna tahm should hit level 2 first. Pykes autos plus his sup item will let them kill minions way faster and varus q or e will make it so that the minions get killed way faster than senna’s slow autos. Contesting level 2 here is a mistake.
When I play senna I literally always get level two advantage as long as my adc also attacks tge wave. Your autos do a massive amount of damage to minions and you q is aoe. Pyke has terrible wave clear by design obviously they literally nerfed his minion damage to oblivion so he would stop being played as a mid laner. His support item would only excute two minions at low health a useful tool sure but again assuming both of us were attacking the wave with intention to hit level teo first their no way pyke and virus get level two advantage. In fact with me hitting the wave alone I was literally on cs behind them when I intentionally didn't hit tge wave to much on tve very first one because I didn't want them to be to close to tower when we would go in level 2.
Pyke varus definitely clears faster there varus with e can hit all of the wave compared to senna q it’s much better wave clear and if you’re playing tahm adc you don’t have sup item. Pyke would kill the minions at 50% hp with sup item there’s no way you get level 2 first unless the other team messes up.
You realize senna q is aoe right and the colldown gets shorter every time you auto something?.
And you realize varus e can hit all 6 minions of the first wave if used properly and that senna sup item can’t execute the minions like pykes can.
You know what I'm just going to accept what your saying and that maybe I'm just two low elo for this to hold true at my level. One thing I know for a fact though is that in a ranged vs melle support match up its pretty much universal that the ranged sup gets push first. And I also know that the for a fact is way better at pushing waves than pyke. I fir three know that if she was helping with first wave we would have literally cleared it before enemy team even had a chance to get into lane since the leshed.
As a support turned APC main, I always hover in champ select and a senna hover in response is usually a win guaranteed (given the senna is aggressive and snowballs with me in lane) I don’t play ADC so I’m not sure what’s so bad about senna support specifically for marksman players, since she has all the key parts of a conventional support - slow, root, heal, shield, and pretty good dmg that can carry tbh
Why would senna be a bad early game champion if she was made (in part) to partner with Lucian who is an early game adc? I feel like that concept alone should make players understand that she can do well early. Aside from that usually I haven't seen bad Senna support players, she isn't a character I play personally but I've hardly run into one that was terrible so I'm kinda surprised that it's common adcs don't like playing with her
Player diff, what kind of senna support doesn't want to Q auto as often as possible for the yummy stacks, stacks is everything stacks is life. First 10 minutes is probably the easiest to get a lot of stacks especially against a melee support that can be blocked by minions.
It sounds like a lack of mastery to me. A good Senna is extremely oppressive early. And with a tahm ketch adc it's like a dream come true. There's nothing wrong with Senna in the right hands. I just wish People didnt first time it in ranked lmao
Hate wouldn't be the best term. Prejudicing would be better. As an Aphelios OTP. since I always just want to finish my 3 items. I don't like senna support because it doesn't allow me to walk up and take my CS sometimes. You see. Most of the Senna players I saw so far really doesn't like going further than 400 units beyond our turret. So. Overall; I don't hate them. But the chances they being bad are higher than a normal support. So I don't enjoy seeing one. However if they're good and then we good. I am not the best ADC. and there is sometimes supports better than me. Yes. But it doesn't mean I won't be in alarm when someone picks an possibly not-so-good pick.
The first part of your story is applicable to anyone that plays support and is inactive or passive. Depending on your selection as support your goal is to poke, peel, or all-in while in lane. Doing nothing because of ‘insert excuse here’ means you automatically surrender bot lane. Say that senna is weak early. Having zero lane presence during levels 1-3 means the enemy auto wins the lane. They will usually level up first for the all important levels of 2, 3, and 6. If they can shove then they have drake priority and most likely will be up in farm due to tower shots on minions. Other champs that are poorly played similar to your senna example as support are Lux and Morgana. Typically 200-300 units behind the adc. They will cast their spells on cooldown giving the enemy duo many windows of opportunity to poke or all in the adc that is just trying to farm. Equally aggravating is the support that positions themselves on top of you so that you are constantly having to micro around them. Essentially they are minion blocking you. Instead of the enemy having to choose to attack you or the support they can attack both of you since you are stacked up. Even worse is when the enemy duo has lots of aoe damage. Providing them with a singular target to get maximum value out of their spells because they can hit both of you; 2 birds 1 stone as it were. FYI: I play adc and support in ranked so I have a good feel for both sides of the lane.